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Rowdy Yates
11-18-2010, 10:22
:-? Is there a hand held GPS Device that one can download a map of the A.T. to, even if it has to be in three sections (southern, central, and northern)? Just curious...

couscous
11-18-2010, 10:56
Several of us are working on it. Problem has been working within the route - track - waypoint limitations of handheld units.

Rowdy Yates
11-18-2010, 11:12
Several of us are working on it. Problem has been working within the route - track - waypoint limitations of handheld units.


:eek: Let me know when you succeed. I would like one...

Wise Old Owl
11-18-2010, 13:09
In the past someone put out a CD with all the coordinates on it for upload to Garmin and it quickly disappeared.

I am finding out that the trail is pre loaded on the medium priced models but its hard to read and spotty, the roads are drawn on top.

Currently I am building tracks that are in 40 mile sections across a state and can upload that way.


here is the GIS data
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805623/k.438D/Appalachian_Trail_GIS_and_GPS_Data.htm

10-K
11-18-2010, 13:12
I recently got nice Garmin but it looks like I'm going to have to go back to college for another degree to figure the thing out.

StorminMormon
11-18-2010, 13:38
Am I missing something? I have a Garmin 450T (T for topographic so it already has all the maps for the US preloaded) and I downloaded the trail from the AT Conservancy web site (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805623/k.438D/Appalachian_Trail_GIS_and_GPS_Data.htm). I think they try to excuse themselves and say that it may not be "pin point accurate" - but it's still pretty darn good.

Plus, I'm not sure, but I think my Garmin had the trail on there already. I'll try to unload the file I downloaded and take some screenshots to show the difference.

pyroman53
11-18-2010, 13:52
Would this data help?
http://www.backpacker.com/global/47

Met BP (the guy who collected all this data) at Neel Gap at the end of his SOBO. I use the profiles and they are the best I've seen.

Not sure what you can do with this data.

Rowdy Yates
11-18-2010, 13:57
In the past someone put out a CD with all the coordinates on it for upload to Garmin and it quickly disappeared.

I am finding out that the trail is pre loaded on the medium priced models but its hard to read and spotty, the roads are drawn on top.

Currently I am building tracks that are in 40 mile sections across a state and can upload that way.


here is the GIS data
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805623/k.438D/Appalachian_Trail_GIS_and_GPS_Data.htm


What is the GIS Centerline Data? :confused:

58starter
11-18-2010, 14:02
I have a Delorme PN-40. You can download the entire AT on it but you have to manually put all the Shelters and other places you want to stop. You can also make as many sections as you like to upload to your GPS from the Topo map progam that comes with it. All the Shelter waypoints are listed here on Whiteblaze.

Buzz Saw
11-18-2010, 14:04
I use Garmin and have 3 of them. The topo map has a very good portion of the trail on it, but you can download the way-points for all off the shelters. I have also been able to download the entire track of the trail to my laptop, but it is something like a 135,000 points. This is entirely to large for any handheld unit. I plan on just using the GPS as a back up for the trail guide, or if I get confused and need to find my way to the nearest shelter. Having a color screen model helps makes it easier to decipherer the information on the maps.

Wise Old Owl
11-18-2010, 14:25
I recently got nice Garmin but it looks like I'm going to have to go back to college for another degree to figure the thing out.

No you need to read the directions that came with it and get a copy of Mapsource to control the data. - its not that bad.:rolleyes:


Am I missing something? I have a Garmin 450T (T for topographic so it already has all the maps for the US preloaded) and I downloaded the trail from the AT Conservancy web site (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805623/k.438D/Appalachian_Trail_GIS_and_GPS_Data.htm). I think they try to excuse themselves and say that it may not be "pin point accurate" - but it's still pretty darn good.

The preloaded maps have the trail, but each time the trail doglegs around a road or object the drawing suffers. Have you uploaded and been able to view the data? there is a limit on viewable track numbers, one has to chunk the data into usable groups.

Plus, I'm not sure, but I think my Garmin had the trail on there already. I'll try to unload the file I downloaded and take some screenshots to show the difference.

Yes its in there.


What is the GIS Centerline Data? :confused:

The conservency uses the data to manage important issues for the trail, their concerned with watching property lines, power lines, fires, private property butting up to the trail and working with rescue teams..Mapping Software. Although the data is public, the data was not intended for stuffing into Garmins. They tried in the past to offer that but there were too many limitatations and complaints.


GIS is Geographic information systems (GIS) or geospatial information systems is a set of tools that captures, stores, analyzes, manages, and presents data that are linked to a location

Spokes
11-18-2010, 15:52
:-? Is there a hand held GPS Device that one can download a map of the A.T. to, even if it has to be in three sections (southern, central, and northern)? Just curious...

Rowdy, I asked a similar question a few weeks back, so I'm following this thread with interest.

I hope StorminMormon is able to share some screen shots and explain further.

handlebar
11-18-2010, 20:35
The AT is so well blazed there's really no need for a GPS. Why carry the extra half pound?

Wise Old Owl
11-18-2010, 21:11
The AT is so well blazed there's really no need for a GPS. Why carry the extra half pound?

Would you carry a map and compass instead?

Spokes
11-18-2010, 23:22
Pretty hard shooting a bearing on most the AT.

lilricky
11-19-2010, 00:36
The AT is so well blazed there's really no need for a GPS. Why carry the extra half pound?
I use my Dakota 20 GPS that not only has the AT centerline installed, but I have added comments to the waypoints, like, when the shelter was built, how many people it will hold, does it have a privy, tent pads, etc. I also have info on the various towns along the way, like phone numbers and hours of operation to shuttles, motels, post offices, restaurants. There's also info about attractions, it gives me sunrise and sunset times, it will show what speed I'm hiking at, the elevation profile of the trail ahead, etc. So that half pound,(actually my Dakota weighs 5.25oz with batteries) gives me all sort of useful and sometimes necessary information.

lilricky
11-19-2010, 00:41
By the way, most of the newer Garmin models, Dakota, Oregon, GPSMap, Rino, etc will hold the entire trail with ease.

leaftye
11-19-2010, 03:00
Sure, the newer ones fit it, but I wouldn't say it's easy. At least it's not the way it should be. Assuming you're not using a map that already has it, you have to use tracks or waypoints that are broken up into sections or has much fewer data points.

Wise Old Owl
11-19-2010, 03:55
Well I am still on the fence - I just loaded a detailed track of Pennsylvania and then added a layer of waypoints to show springs along the way - Garmin wont display both sets of information at the same time. So I have to think about this some more.

Furthermore - small streams and springs are not in the preloaded maps at 1:24 approch trails and dirt access roads have to be added or well known.

The AT maps & books still have their place.

Rowdy Yates
11-19-2010, 13:59
:-? Is there a hand held GPS Device that one can download a map of the A.T. to, even if it has to be in three sections (southern, central, and northern)? Just curious...


Let me add to my question with this one... which device have you found works best with downloadable data for the A.T. ?

Tenderheart
11-19-2010, 14:13
Would you carry a map and compass instead?


No! I would carry The Data Book.

litefoot 2000

Spokes
11-19-2010, 15:59
Let me add to my question with this one... which device have you found works best with downloadable data for the A.T. ?

I downloaded the entire AT Shelter file from the ATC on my (old model) Garmin eTrex Legend.

Wise Old Owl
11-19-2010, 19:45
No! I would carry The Data Book.

litefoot 2000

Problem Solved - don't worry about GPS, the data book is for u.

Buzz Saw
11-19-2010, 19:59
I've copied the data book to my camera which I'll be carrying anyway. Figure as I walk off of the pages I'll just delete them, so first picture will be the page I'm on, save batteries. That way the weight I save by not packing the book will go toward the GPS. I can download the topos for 50 miles each side of the trail and shelters so don't feel will need map either.

lilricky
11-20-2010, 12:19
Excellent idea Buzz Saw! With SD/MicroSD cards being so cheap today, its an excellent way to store info!


I've copied the data book to my camera which I'll be carrying anyway. Figure as I walk off of the pages I'll just delete them, so first picture will be the page I'm on, save batteries. That way the weight I save by not packing the book will go toward the GPS. I can download the topos for 50 miles each side of the trail and shelters so don't feel will need map either.

Spokes
11-20-2010, 12:59
I've copied the data book to my camera which I'll be carrying anyway. ......

I'm surprised you read them on such a small screen? I'd have to carry a magnifying glass.

Buzz Saw
11-20-2010, 13:05
Thats the nice thing about digital you can zoom in, so even an old fart like me can read the text. Try it.

Wise Old Owl
11-20-2010, 13:12
Modern Digitals have larger screens, viewing though kills the batteries...



Does anyone know how to move waypoints to >> Geocashes?

Perhaps they can be viewed when the track is up on the screen.

Rowdy Yates
11-24-2010, 17:02
Let me add to my question with this one... which device have you found works best with downloadable data for the A.T. ?


:D Allow me to ask another "duhh" question... Is it possible to use a Blackberry 8700g Smartphone and Memory cards and download the AT Trail data by sections? I'm rather tech. handicapped as you can see.

Bucherm
11-25-2010, 03:44
:D Allow me to ask another "duhh" question... Is it possible to use a Blackberry 8700g Smartphone and Memory cards and download the AT Trail data by sections? I'm rather tech. handicapped as you can see.


Hi Rowdy,


The Blackberry 8700g is an older model and does not have an expansion slot. Almost all portable electronics nowadays(GPS, digital Cameras, and more recent smartphones) use "SD" cards, in the case of my GPS and Smartphone they use "MicroSD" Cards. In fact my smartphone came with a MicroSd card in lieu of internal memory.


The 8700g does not have a lot in the way of internal memory, less than 100 MB. While there is no doubt in my mind that that is enough to store the map data, if you are using it's email functions you may not have the space. Likewise you may have to manually plug the phone into a computer and drag and drop the information into the phone's directory somewhere; I'm not familiar enough with the 8700g to determine how easy(or difficult) it would be.


If it has what is called a Native PDF Reader(and since it's a Blackberry I would bet that it does, no matter how old) you may be able to either read the companion guide on the go, or download it onto the phone directly from the ALDHA's website here (http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm). Just go over to the website from the phone's browser. It may prove more difficult to load actual map data though.


Cheers,


MBB

Bucherm
11-25-2010, 03:57
Addendum to the above:

The 8700g does not have a GPS receiver, so if you are looking to download maps intended for GPS devices I'm skeptical at the quality of service you'll get out of them. Either they won't work at all, or it'll just be a static map of the section. In which case carrying paper maps would be a better choice.


I carry physical maps with me even though I have a GPS device. I've found that I often use small screen GPS as a quick way to locate myself on the paper map, rather than as an exclusive tool.

Were I to thru-hike I would likely carry both my GPS and maps of the section I'm hiking, but if my electronic map couldn't track my movement I wouldn't even bother to bring it.

Cheers,

MBB

Rowdy Yates
11-25-2010, 08:54
Hi Rowdy,


The Blackberry 8700g is an older model and does not have an expansion slot. Almost all portable electronics nowadays(GPS, digital Cameras, and more recent smartphones) use "SD" cards, in the case of my GPS and Smartphone they use "MicroSD" Cards. In fact my smartphone came with a MicroSd card in lieu of internal memory.


The 8700g does not have a lot in the way of internal memory, less than 100 MB. While there is no doubt in my mind that that is enough to store the map data, if you are using it's email functions you may not have the space. Likewise you may have to manually plug the phone into a computer and drag and drop the information into the phone's directory somewhere; I'm not familiar enough with the 8700g to determine how easy(or difficult) it would be.


If it has what is called a Native PDF Reader(and since it's a Blackberry I would bet that it does, no matter how old) you may be able to either read the companion guide on the go, or download it onto the phone directly from the ALDHA's website here (http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm). Just go over to the website from the phone's browser. It may prove more difficult to load actual map data though.


Cheers,


MBB

Thanks MBB!

Anyone have a recommendation for a Smartphone/PDA that would work in this manner? As anyone can see, I am not "tech" savvy. :o

The Old Fhart
11-25-2010, 09:19
Wise Old Owl-"Does anyone know how to move waypoints to >> Geocashes? "A Geocache is just a type of waypoint. If you can see one, you can see the other.

Wise Old Owl
11-25-2010, 12:02
Yea I understand that - doesn't answer my question.

If I am in the track mode or following a track waypoints are not viewable - are geocashes? How does one change the extension from one to another.

BrianLe
11-25-2010, 12:02
"Anyone have a recommendation for a Smartphone/PDA that would work in this manner? As anyone can see, I am not "tech" savvy"

The problem with making a recommendation is that there are many different factors, and folks might value some aspects differently than you do. For example, maybe one person uses the phone as their camera as well, so getting a good built-in camera is a high priority, and a low priority for you. It's thus a bit perilous to go by random recommendations on the internet. I put together a list of at least the right sorts of *questions* to ask when picking a smartphone a couple of years ago, here (http://postholer.com/smartPhone.html).

FWIW, I just switched phones for my next trip and selected a Motorola Droid X, I bought it unlocked (higher initial cost) and will activate it on the Verizon network. I'm NOT saying this is therefore the right answer for you, however.

And a warning, getting a smartphone really set up to maximally utilize the functionality it offers typically does take a bit of "tech savvy", and sometimes includes a bit of frustration and required online research. That's particularly true in getting it to work as a GPS --- you have to select the particular application you want to use, find a source of maps (free or paid), pick what type(s) of maps you want, get the right map pieces selected and loaded onto your device, then a map trace of the particular trails put on.

If technology is your personal kryptonite but you're nevertheless sold on this approach, you might consider finding a tech-strong friend or relative that's willing to do some significant setup and testing work for you. Even then, when out in the woods and something stops working, it's best for you to know a few basic ideas of how to reboot and get things working again, and to limit battery power drain.

Note that if all you want out of a GPS is numeric coordinates that you then apply to a paper map, it's not nearly so complicated, I would expect most if not every smartphone with a built-in GPS will have available cheap or more likely free software to just do that.

QiWiz
11-25-2010, 18:09
FWIW, iPhone now has 5 MP camera, GPS apps (try Acuterra) for the AT with trail marked, music, books to read, trail journal by text or voice files, store references like AT guidebooks, etc. Wish it were cheaper but a pretty functional 5 oz package. Can recharge with 1.8 oz AA charger with 4 lithium batteries weighing 2 more oz.
Not as good as a dedicated GPS, but hey . .

Wise Old Owl
11-25-2010, 18:16
Good call except the batteries - Have you seen that charge connection, I can adapt it for a solar charger, but it would need to be hooked up 6 + Hours per day IMO. The panel would need to be as big as the Bruton version. And on a serious cloudy day you would have to revert to those batteries at $10 per charge.

leaftye
11-25-2010, 18:29
I used a solar charger to recharge my Peek Pronto and it sure had me concerned to have it hooked up for hours while hiking because a wrong bump could easily damage the charging port.

Wise Old Owl
11-25-2010, 18:44
Well thats why you get insurance on the things, but I take it,

1. This did work out.
2. You didn't have problems.

The Old Fhart
11-25-2010, 19:45
Wise Old Owl-"If I am in the track mode or following a track waypoints are not viewable - are geocashes? How does one change the extension from one to another."
Still not sure what you mean. Here is a screen capture from my 60CSx. The green line is the track, the smilie face is a found cache, the green topped one is not found, and the green 'P' is a parking WPT. I don't change any extensions.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5165/5207326161_73490c6320_z.jpg

QiWiz
11-25-2010, 21:47
Good call except the batteries - Have you seen that charge connection, I can adapt it for a solar charger, but it would need to be hooked up 6 + Hours per day IMO. The panel would need to be as big as the Bruton version. And on a serious cloudy day you would have to revert to those batteries at $10 per charge.

I get 2-3 pretty full charges out of the lithiums. Buy on eBay for best prices. Ship 4 to a mail drop. With careful battery management, get 5-9 days use of phone per full charge. Picture-taking and music listening and brief GPS checking for "where am I now?" use relatively little battery life. Use airport mode unless trying to use GPS or make a call. Reading uses batteries faster, but make screen as dim as you can to see OK. Have not found a solar charger worth the weight for performance.

Wise Old Owl
11-26-2010, 01:07
5-9 days is a trail town that's great.

I have built a charger for my cell phone that gets 3g. just not going to do the trail on it.

Wise Old Owl
11-26-2010, 01:10
I HAVE SOLVED HOW TO PUT THE PARKING LOTS ON THE GARMIN NUVI, NOW ONE CAN DRIVE TO THE PART OF THE TRAIL YOU WANT TO HIKE! AND GARMIN WILL TAKE YOU TO THE LOT.

It took me hours to solve - there may be an easier way, but the solution I give allows removal if you want to turn it off.
See Geo http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=66668

leaftye
11-26-2010, 04:38
Well thats why you get insurance on the things, but I take it,

1. This did work out.
2. You didn't have problems.

Ah, I forgot that insurance is an option. The Peek Pronto is inexpensive enough that I didn't have a reason to consider insurance.

And yes, it did work out. Charging was slow, but it did work. I'd still prefer a charger that can charge external devices without sunlight. I think it'd be much safer and convenient to charge my device(s) at night. What I really want is a smartphone that was built to use AA batteries.

Bucherm
12-01-2010, 00:48
Thanks MBB!

Anyone have a recommendation for a Smartphone/PDA that would work in this manner? As anyone can see, I am not "tech" savvy. :o

Hi Rowdy,

How married are you to carrying a multi-function smartphone? Like BrianLe I have a Droid X(I like the big screen) smartphone, but it uses proprietary batteries so I carry a Garmin that uses 2 AA batteries. The Garmin I have is also more robust than my smartphone, i.e. I can bang it around/drop it in water/etc and not worry too much about serious damage to the device.

In addition it takes some tech savvyness in order to tweak a smartphone into a hiking GPS, whereas buying a dedicated one will, if nothing else, come with documentation. :) I know that a lot of folks look at smartphones and see them as an easy way to lose some weight by consolidating some items, but I wouldn't recommend it.

All that said, there *are* hiking applications that can be downloaded onto smartphones like the iPhone or ones that use the Android operating system. I haven't done enough research into it though to point you in the right direction.

Cheers,

MBB

Wise Old Owl
12-01-2010, 23:06
Good post.