View Full Version : Bear /Food Bag or Inside Tent
Just curious about your thoughts on not hanging your food bag but keeping your pack either inside your tent or hanging from the shelter hooks.
Also, welcome your advice/suggestions on what kind of bag and rope needed if I must hang my food bag each night along the trail.
Thank you.
Mountain Wildman
11-23-2010, 19:14
Not very many people will recommend keeping your food bag with you in your tent, MLD sells a Bear bag set that weighs 3.4 ounces, http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=79
I put my own together with a Large Cuben Fiber Dry Bag from MLD, http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=148, and a Cuben Fiber Rock pouch, Mini Carabiner and 1.5MM Z-Line Spectra cord from ZPacks,
http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/stuff_sacks.shtml
http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/carabiner.shtml
http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/spectra_cord.shtml
The MLD Pro Bear Bag is $59.00/3.4ounces
My setup came to $50.00/2.4ounces
Pedaling Fool
11-23-2010, 19:18
Tons of threads on this issue if you search "bear bag".
I do keep my food in the tent with me, but I think I'm in the minority.
Here's one thread: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=62094&highlight=bear+bag
I wouldn't keep my food in the tent...it's not as much about the bears as it is the mice which I absolutely cannot stand. Yes, the mice will eat a hole in your tent if you have food in it. Bears in your tent might be a bummer too!
Mice will definitely chew a hole in your tent. That being said, I have known several people to have their food taken by a bear out of a tree, but have never met anyone that has slept with their food and had it taken by a bear. I use a tarp and usually have my food bag as a pillow.
Mice are the main reason I use an Ursack. It's heavier than a hanging bear bag, but more convenient, especially when there are no suitable trees.
mweinstone
11-23-2010, 21:43
a small amount of plastic bag sticking out of your food bag with the bag sinched tight around it will cause mice to make dozens of trips to and from your foodbag to recover insulation in the form of bites of plastic bag. they wil ignore your food even though they are within a milimeter of plastic from it. you see my deers, mice have instinctual knowlage that insulation warms many times and food stolen from your bag warms only once. its about heat energy. simularily a small wad or two or three of tissue paper tossed about you before you sleep will acomplish the same end. the mice will walk around your food, even if its layed out, to get at the insulative propertys of the wadded toilet paper. been doing this forever. it works and never dosnt work. mice have an abundance of food dropped on the ground at shelters and campsites. they need not climb for food. they do only when that hung food is more abundant than insulation.bears do require the hanging of food but never when a site has more than 4 hikers due to the bears fear of us. a dog in a site negates the need to hang from bear totaly. a foodbag is a pillow that provides additional rest needed sorely on a hike of leangth. and the ability to snack in the night is equally benificial to the succes of a long distance hiker.
runfifty
11-23-2010, 23:26
I used an "Ursack Minor" for my thru hike and it worked perfectly. The company says it won't stand up to a bear but will keep out mice, raccoons and other small critters. It's lighter than a normal Ursack and the company said their price was lower than normal since I would be beta testing it for them.
SouthMark
11-24-2010, 01:01
In your tent. No need to hang it.
I'm another one who sleeps with it in my tent ... I've only hung my food when in highly active bear areas ....
mweinstone
11-24-2010, 01:27
remember the ten four rule. and twenty eight is better . but know that their is only one hang that is bombproof and that is the hang you stand under and look up and know its imposible for any bear. if you say,..ehh, it'l do. then it wont. first hang it waterproof, then windproof then bearproof then squirrle and mouse proof. ten feet up. four feet out. 10/4?
Lone Wolf
11-24-2010, 05:25
Just curious about your thoughts on not hanging your food bag but keeping your pack either inside your tent
i always keep my food bag and pack inside my tent with me. never had a mouse or any other critter chew it's way in
You might get away with it a hundred times, but the night a hungry bear goes after the food in your tent will be BAD, really BAD. Take a chance and pay the consequences.
Big Dawg
11-24-2010, 09:36
Sleep w/ your food!
4eyedbuzzard
11-24-2010, 09:40
i always keep my food bag and pack inside my tent with me. never had a mouse or any other critter chew it's way in
You've probably worn cotton outdoors too.
Lone Wolf
11-24-2010, 09:43
You've probably worn cotton outdoors too.
i hike in cotton shirts
4eyedbuzzard
11-24-2010, 09:46
i hike in cotton shirts
Then obviously you're doomed. You're going to get wet, get hypothermic, fall asleep in your tent with your food, and get eaten by a bear - or a s'load of mice. :rolleyes:
SouthMark
11-24-2010, 09:59
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Pedaling Fool
11-24-2010, 10:01
Yes, the mice will eat a hole in your tent if you have food in it.
Mice will definitely chew a hole in your tent.
Never had a mouse chew thru my tent. The only time I saw a mouse on my tent (crawled over top of it) was when I tented near a shelter. But when you're away from the shelters they are no where near the populations.
I've had some animals brush up against my tent. On a bike trip I had an armidilo (sp?) start digging under my tent, kicked him and he left.
I did get my pack chewed thru in a shelter once, but never in my tent.
BTW, if a mouse ever chews thru my tent, I got duct tape. I need an excuse to buy another tent; I've had this one way too long.:D
Lone Wolf
11-24-2010, 10:02
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
i see no bears will bother my food if it's in my tent. i'm very sighted
Then obviously you're doomed. You're going to get wet, get hypothermic, fall asleep in your tent with your food, and get eaten by a bear - or a s'load of mice. :rolleyes:
if they are the right brand or from an expensive outfitter. If it's a cheap one from Wally World or the thrift store then he is doomed for sure.;)
SouthMark
11-24-2010, 13:09
i see no bears will bother my food if it's in my tent. i'm very sighted
I agree. That's what I meant.
Lone Wolf
11-24-2010, 13:11
I agree. That's what I meant.
yeah. the bearbaggers and water treaters are blinded by irrational fear and paranoia. :cool:
mechengr
11-24-2010, 15:07
Hang your food!
Lone Wolf
11-24-2010, 15:32
sleep with your food!
4eyedbuzzard
11-24-2010, 16:19
sleep with your food!
It might be dangerous, but I love sleeping with my honey. :D
Whether bears eat hikers or their food, the result is the same. Ordinarily, the former involves more publicity and no doubt influences wildlife management agency recommendations against sleeping with bear bait.
max patch
11-24-2010, 21:03
If can't figure out how to properly bear bag then sleeping with your food is always an alternative.
Skidsteer
11-24-2010, 21:19
I know how to properly hang a bear bag but my food is in the tent with me.
I prefer to bear bag. Good skill to get down, nice having the "smellies" away from where I sleep, cuts down on late night snacking, prefer to keep rodents and others away. 1st thing I look for when I find a camp site.
Stir Fry
11-24-2010, 22:22
There have been enough cases of Bears learning that tents mean food, that its not worth the risk for the sake of the Bear. If after leaning to raid a tent the bear inadvertantly injures a hiker he get distroyed. There have been Bears raiding tents in the Smokies, and Max Patch, Blood Mt. In all cases everyone bleamed the Bear. Not the hikers that kept food in there tents. A bear will raid tents if he is reworded with food even if its only some of the time. Protacting the bears is enough reason for me to hang my food.
Anyont that does less does not need to be in the woods hiking and camping. It shows no respect for wild life, or nature. If the bear did get into there tent and they got injured they would probibly be screming that something needs to be done. Do the right thing and hang you food.
On the PCT almost every single hiker sleeps with their food except for the stretch between Seqouia Kings Canyon thru Yosemite where bear canisters are required. For example; In Tuolumne meadows a bear will absolutely go right into your tent to get food despite your presence while just 60 miles away you will be lucky to see a bear.
I don't recall any thru or section hiker losing food or having a bear problem on the PCT.
On the CDT I slept with my food everynight.. whoa that sounds strange!
Anyhow I never had a single incident. The only bear incident I heard about was in Yellowstone where we are required to hang our food and stay in specific campsites. A poor fellow got eaten there, in an established campground, with lots of people around, where food is hung.
I know if the bear gets the food they also get the encouragement to do it again and eventually they end up dead. However, hanging food is only a delaying tactic and might even spread the food smell farther afield.
Just saying the reality is they don't challenge us outside a few places where "man habituated" bears are found.
The fact is that in 5,600 miles the only place bears were having "people issues" was in established campgrounds. When I ran into black bears and Grizzly out on the trail away from people they always ran away as fast as possible.
I have struggled with this issue myself. I used to think it was clear cut, that all food needed to be hung or carried in a canister. Frankly since hiking the other two big trails I now believe that at a thru hikers pace, not camping near water, not camping in campgrounds or near the trail, not cooking where I sleep, etc. has more to do with keeping my food safe from bears and visa versa.
It sounds like the AT has a similar bear situation.
From what my AT veteran buddies have told me rodents are a much bigger problem on the trail particularly near shelters.
Anyhow does anyone have any experience with the ursack and it's resistance to mice?
Anyhow I am really interested in this thread because I have never been out east. I want to do the "right thing" for the bears but I have serious questions whether hanging food in a tree is the "right" thing anymore.
How many long distance section or thru hikers on the AT have actually lost food to bear by hanging versus sleeping on it? That would be an interesting and telling statistic.
Only leave stuff like honey and tuna fish in your tent. Hang everything else.
Just saying the reality is they don't challenge us outside a few places where "man habituated" bears are found.
Could it be you are referring to a significant portion of the Appalachian Trail? It may not be appropriate to compare what has resulted in avoiding conflicts for individuals on the other long trails.
I prefer advise from Pennsylvania Game Commission or local wildlife management authorities on the subject of bears, but realize everyone will do as they wish.
4eyedbuzzard
11-24-2010, 22:46
Just for the sake of discussion, and not argument...
What is the difference to a bear if food is in your tent vs. in your pack? A bear's sense of smell is pretty well established to be much better than even that of a bloodhound's. So the reality is that bears smell our food all the time, 24/7, in a tent, in a pack, in a bear bag, etc. And they smell the residual odor of our food on our tents, packs, clothes, sleeping bags, and bodys, etc. There's just no getting away from the fact that we not only smell like humans - but also our food. Yet no one is telling hikers not to carry food in their packs. If bears went wild and raided everything that simply smells like human food in the woods (such as hikers and their packs), the trails would be littered with mauled hikers. But they're not. So there has to be other criteria in play. Is it time of day (night), human inactivity (sleeping), or other that gives rise to the caution of separating humans and food at camp? Or is the caution over-stated and perhaps even unwarranted. How many hikers in the east have actually had bears attack them in their tents while foraging for food?
Again, I'm not looking for an argument or warning, I'm just trying to draw out some honest answers and real world experiences regarding this situation.
Is the Pennsyvania Game Comission the final word for all bears on the AT?
I am not being snide. I truly am curious what the "custom" is out on the AT. Frankly a lot of what the Rangers say is geared towards day hikers and overnighters that have completely different food discipline. Lets be honest. there is a difference between a thru hiker doing 20 miles a day and might sleep in a spot for 8 hours and a person that camps in a single spot, cooking meals etc. for 14 hours.
There is a lot of posts here and some of them are clearly "tongue in cheek" and some are serious. Emerald you are clearly serious and I respect your opinion.
I know people get uncomfortable when the topic comes to thru hikers being "different" or having different ways but it is true.
How many thru hikers have you known that have lost food to a bear while they slept on it?
How many thru hikers lost food from a bear hang?
Does the PGC keep statistics on this?
I am not being fascetious. I really am interested in this topic and want to see real numbers.
GracefulRoll
11-24-2010, 23:21
It's too bad decoys would only give encouragement.
Stir Fry
11-24-2010, 23:24
I think it is the inactivity along with the smell that attracts them. Most of the time once they realize you are there they run. But once they are rewarded by getting the food it only get worse. If a bear is able to get to your food, in a pack while hanging or in your tent he will try again. If its in your pack or hanging, you are in little danger, asuming you are not wearing the pack. But if its in your tent with you you could be injured, most likly by accident. If it happans the bear will suffer. Two years ago tents were being raided on Max Patch. Most had no food but the bear was still looking. He had been rewarded at leat once so kept coming back. My main thought is protecting the wildlife. You could keep you food bag in your tand on 1000 nights but on the rare time that a bear coms across your tent and you are down the hill or out of the area he gets rewarded. Now we have a problem bear, and in the end it is the bear that will pay for oue carlessness. But a lot of peaple think it wont happen to me. In realaty it can happen to any one. It should be part of Leave No Trace thnking.
Skidsteer
11-25-2010, 00:34
Just for the sake of discussion, and not argument...
What is the difference to a bear if food is in your tent vs. in your pack? A bear's sense of smell is pretty well established to be much better than even that of a bloodhound's. So the reality is that bears smell our food all the time, 24/7, in a tent, in a pack, in a bear bag, etc. And they smell the residual odor of our food on our tents, packs, clothes, sleeping bags, and bodys, etc. There's just no getting away from the fact that we not only smell like humans - but also our food. Yet no one is telling hikers not to carry food in their packs. If bears went wild and raided everything that simply smells like human food in the woods (such as hikers and their packs), the trails would be littered with mauled hikers. But they're not. So there has to be other criteria in play. Is it time of day (night), human inactivity (sleeping), or other that gives rise to the caution of separating humans and food at camp? Or is the caution over-stated and perhaps even unwarranted. How many hikers in the east have actually had bears attack them in their tents while foraging for food?
Again, I'm not looking for an argument or warning, I'm just trying to draw out some honest answers and real world experiences regarding this situation.
There you go using logic again.
Bear problems occur at shelters and high traffic campsites.
My opinion is that bears prefer unattended food.
My opinion is that bears can smell fear.
Is Pennsylvania Game Commission the final word for all bears on the AT?
I prefer advise from Pennsylvania Game Commission or local wildlife management authorities on the subject of bears, but realize everyone will do as they wish.
Emerald, you are clearly serious and I respect your opinion...
I'm not aware of any problem bears along the A.T. in Pennsylvania at present and only rarely have heard of issues. Maybe a year ago, I came across and linked an advisory regarding a relocated habituated bear, but haven't heard another word on the subject.
At that time, PGC pointed out our bear population is higher in the Ridge and Valley than the Piedmont. That means encounters are more likely north of Susquehanna River, but it doesn't mean you will see a bear. Our best bear habitat occurs elsewhere on the Pocono Plateau.
The relative lack of incidents here may be due to our bear population being more in balance with the habitat than at other locations where hunting is not permitted. Hunting no doubt influences bear behavior in other ways too.
Incidentally, our 3-day firearms bear season was November 20, 22 and 23. There will probably be a press release on results soon.
If anyone becomes aware of a problem bear on the A.T., call the nearest PGC regional field office. It would be a good idea to contact ATC too who would then forward the information to the appropriate local trail club and inform hikers.
I doubt PGC has any data of the kind about which you inquired nor would they be willing to devote resources to obtaining such information. If you are curious, I suggest you telephone them.
For more information, see PGC's Pennsylvania black bear page (http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/black_bear/14343).
Ironbelly
11-25-2010, 09:07
I think unattended food is the issue, whether it's in a bear bag, in your tent, your pack, in a bear canister, or laying on the ground. I have seen first hand and have heard of many a bear trying to obtain unattended food.
But rarely if ever have I heard of a bear trying to take attended food. A bear may come into your camp site to "investigate" but I don't hear anyone saying the bears raided the site held them at claw point and took the food out of their packs.
I am largely refering to black bears as I have little to no experience with brown/grizzlies.
I sleep with my food in my tent or hammock. I also have a dog with me. I have never had an issue personally with my food.
There is a difference in sleeping with your food, and leaving your food unattended in your tent while you go ****** . I have seen the aftermath though, buddy leaves food bag in pack while we go to get water (i still had my pack on) and when we get back to camp the bear takes off but had already begun ripping into the pack. This occured near thirteenth lake in the ADKs.
It's a personal choice, but I choose to sleep with my food. I do follow the appropiate laws/ordanance in areas with problem bears that mandate hanging or canisters.
Pedaling Fool
11-25-2010, 09:45
Great Stuff!
If you need some more, check this out http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/search.php?searchid=9001494
\
:D
SouthMark
11-25-2010, 09:45
I have yet to figure out how to hang my hand cleaner smelling hands, my toothpaste smelling teeth or my chapstick smelling lips.
I guess I'll just start hanging my food and sleeping with a bear.
As others mentioned, MICE are the problem. Here in NJ I saw just one bear this season, early in April and nothing since then. I always hang the food since the bear boxes here are just feeding places for the mice. Mice can get in most boxes, leaving you with an unpleasant surprise in the morning. Ziploc bags and peanut butter are their favorites!
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
Big Dawg
11-25-2010, 11:23
Anyone that does less (than hang food) does not need to be in the woods hiking and camping.
really... seriously? :confused:
Just for the sake of discussion, and not argument...
What is the difference to a bear if food is in your tent vs. in your pack? A bear's sense of smell is pretty well established to be much better than even that of a bloodhound's. So the reality is that bears smell our food all the time, 24/7, in a tent, in a pack, in a bear bag, etc. And they smell the residual odor of our food on our tents, packs, clothes, sleeping bags, and bodys, etc. There's just no getting away from the fact that we not only smell like humans - but also our food. Yet no one is telling hikers not to carry food in their packs. If bears went wild and raided everything that simply smells like human food in the woods (such as hikers and their packs), the trails would be littered with mauled hikers. But they're not. So there has to be other criteria in play. Is it time of day (night), human inactivity (sleeping), or other that gives rise to the caution of separating humans and food at camp? Or is the caution over-stated and perhaps even unwarranted. How many hikers in the east have actually had bears attack them in their tents while foraging for food?
Again, I'm not looking for an argument or warning, I'm just trying to draw out some honest answers and real world experiences regarding this situation.
well said!!
"Anyhow does anyone have any experience with the ursack and it's resistance to mice?"
Iceaxe, I see the bear situation about the same way you do; I expect most folks that have done either long distance western trail are likely to have similar views --- months of experience tend to mold opinion (!).
I used the new Ursack Minor (http://www.ursack.com/ursack-minor.htm) on the AT this year. 2.7 oz, not meant to be bear proof, but rodent proof. I sometimes hung (inside a shelter type of hung) the bag, but more often in shelters I just put it next to my bed. Never had a rodent problem, while a couple of times folks around me did have some things nibbled into. No proof there, but it's pretty light and worked fine for me.
On the AT my suggestions about bears is:
(a) in the national parks (Smokies, Shenendoah), hang the food where there are bear poles or cables or whatever provided; heck, I also hung on the very last day at the cables just before climbing Katahdin, a similar situation (lots of people in a park).
(b) where there are bear boxes provided, use them, being aware of the possibility of rodents getting in (never happened to me, but ... ursack minor again ...)
(c) otherwise, sleep with your food or do the nearby/easy hang that folks do just to avoid rodent access in shelters
Wise Old Owl
11-25-2010, 11:58
Here is a pic of a $500 European tent where food was "residule" on the hands of the person setting it up.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/200804181.jpg
4eyedbuzzard - you bring up a good point, one that I have thought about. I have not hiked in Grizzly Country yet, agreed, on the AT all of the smells, including what is in my trash bag, gets into all fabrics.
I enjoy bear bagging my food and cook bag (trash as well), fun woods skills, usually PLENTY of time after I finish hiking, do not want skunks, mice, etc coming around my tent if I can avoid it. Black bears are not a huge concern, the ones I have seen skee-daddle when they see me.
4eyedbuzzard
11-25-2010, 14:41
There you go using logic again.
Just one of many character flaws.
Bear problems occur at shelters and high traffic campsites.
My opinion is that bears prefer unattended food.
My opinion is that bears can smell fear.
I tend to agree. But I also always keep in mind that bears are the baddest SOB's in the woods (angry moose, boars, and dogs rank right up there too). My only up close and personal encounter with one ended with the bear turning tail and running. Woke up to one with its nose literally at my tent door. Quite the adrenaline rush.
Around here in NH, they are notorious trash can raiders and will go after unattended food - but generally are very shy of humans and run off when yelled at / confronted.
So I tend to hang or box when I think it's necessary and reasonably convenient, but more out of just doing what is suggested by experts / authorities than from any proof that it is really necessary or even really works. Most of the very few bear attacks in the east remain random events and often as not don't involve human food as a possible motivating circumstance.
Harrison Bergeron
11-25-2010, 14:48
I mentioned this on another thread, but how about a "mouse vault"?
In other words, a lightweight plastic mouse-proof, smell-proof jar for your food? Besides eliminating the mouse problem, maybe if you were careful about where you cook, it would reduce your food smell level to something less than hiker B.O. level, making it much safer to sleep with your food.
I was thinking about something like a plastic biscotti jar, the kind with the screw-top lid.
Dumb idea?
4eyedbuzzard
11-25-2010, 14:53
I mentioned this on another thread, but how about a "mouse vault"?
In other words, a lightweight plastic mouse-proof, smell-proof jar for your food? Besides eliminating the mouse problem, maybe if you were careful about where you cook, it would reduce your food smell level to something less than hiker B.O. level, making it much safer to sleep with your food.
I was thinking about something like a plastic biscotti jar, the kind with the screw-top lid.
Dumb idea?
Or one of those big plastic pretzel jars (for those of us not cultured enough to buy biscotti) ;) :D
Sounds like an interesting idea.
http://www.rei.com/product/758706
http://www.rei.com/product/758706
Might work if you were wearing gloves while handling the bag.
4eyedbuzzard
11-25-2010, 15:40
http://www.rei.com/product/758706
Might work if you were wearing gloves while handling the bag.
I don't buy that any product is truly odor proof. I can almost guaranty that if you tested these against a drug dog or bloodhound that they wouldn't be the least bit confused as to where the scent they were keying on was. It's just phenomenal how sensitive their noses are. And if they can smell something through it, a bear can too.
Add that cross contamination (getting the odor on the outside of the bag or in the seal area), especially in the field, is pretty much impossible to prevent.
Hey john Galt that is a great idea! I have been wondering about something like that. A few folks I have met swear by OP sacks as being rodent proof.. or rather "smell" proof since the rodent could easily chew through an OP sack. As mentioned hew before Ursack makes a light rodent proof sack but kevlar being such a pricey material.. Anyhow i like the idea of the pretzl jar.
Back to the bear thing.. Out in the Sierra where bear canisters are required, it is often noticed that they seldom investigte the older garcia models. Some have speculated that the Bears have grown acustomed to them and learned that they cannot get into them. Likewise I have used an older model Garcia bear can in Northern Yosemite for 15 years. I noticed the same thing; The first couple of years the cannister would be knocked over in the morning and sustained scratches and bite marks consistent with a bear. I also once saw a mother bear and her cub "assault" my bear canister and left after being unsuccessful.
Anyhow I wonder if at some future date, a simple canister no stronger than a thin plastic pretzl jar would be sufficient to discourage the bears.
Let me say I do not advocate anyone use anything less than an approved bear resistant canister in the required areas.
I just think that if bear canisters were lighter and cheaper more folks would use them. The Ursack sure is pretty close to the "Holy Grail" in all areas except price and the fact they are not yet approved by the SBBIG Sierra Black bear Interagency group.
There is also the interesting "trail legend" out there that an OP sack surrounded by moth balls both repels mice and bears alike. I have no knowledge of this myself just second hand info from some very adamant hikers as to the strtegies success. Has anyone tried the OP sack/mothball thing? At least in theory, if a hiker were already going to sleep with or on their food, it would be best to mitigate the food smell if not eliminate it. If mothballs truly repel mice if not bears that would also be useful.
Anyhow I really apreciate all the great conversation in this thread! thanks everyone!
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Didn't that happen a while ago? Not even a real hunter, just a sportsman.
Skidsteer
11-25-2010, 18:49
Here is a pic of a $500 European tent where food was "residule" on the hands of the person setting it up.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/200804181.jpg
Yep, and let me guess. The tent was set up near a shelter or overused campsite.
Just call me Carnak.
Wise Old Owl
11-25-2010, 19:02
Jon & 4 eye - its a great Idea, I hung on to one so the food would float if I rolled my kayak! I still think a mouse could chew it though.
So here's the test put the mouse inside the container and see if he can chew his way out.
Skidster - it was Maine and not near a shelter, its an 10x10 addition for a Honda Element.
4eyedbuzzard
11-25-2010, 20:36
Here is a pic of a $500 European tent where food was "residule" on the hands of the person setting it up.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/200804181.jpg
Well, duh. It's a well known fact that bears will raid an expensive European tent to get to the French pastries inside.
http://businessbrasserie.com/images/T/PastrySelection.jpg
Bears ain't dumb, ya know. :rolleyes: :D
When I hang my food, I don't sleep that well thinking that a bear or mouse is getting to my food. Only once have I had an issue with either while sleeping with my food. I woke up to a mouse chewing into my foodbag, and when I turned on my headlamp, a bear ran away. Personally, I feel better sleeping with my food.
p.s. Always leave zippers on your pack and tent partially open so that a mouse can get in without chewing through.
i always keep my food bag and pack inside my tent with me. never had a mouse or any other critter chew it's way in
Nor have I. Mice like shelters because it's where most everyone eats at some time or other. There are always crumbs to be found. I hang in trees where there is evidence of bears (read the shelter registers) and otherwise keep my food in my tent or hanging in the shelter.
Though I always use the tuna can on a string gambit, such devices offer virturally no protection from determined wild critters. Shelter hanging just serves to keep packs out of the way of people sleeping so the full capacity of the shelter can be used.
ebandlam
11-26-2010, 12:55
Tawa,
As you can see your question has spawned a religious war. :)
What I have done always is to hang the food - but this is my choice.
Regardless of the option you choose, remember that you own the consequences of your actions... :sun
Good Luck!!
Harrison Bergeron
11-26-2010, 18:40
We only snack on the finest Nonni's Biscotti at the Galt household, so obviously the idea of a Pretzals jar never occurred to me. :rolleyes:
However, in the interest of science, I rummaged around in the garage and found a similar container that's probably close in size to a pretzel jar (this one came from Wal-Mart and originally contained bunch of various size bungee cords).
It's 5" square and 8" tall and weighs 4oz after I peeled the labels off. That's basically the same size as the stuff sack I usually use for my food bag, and I'll gladly give up 3oz to not have to share my food with the mice!
So I think I found my mouse vault. If nothing else, it's waterproof.
4eyedbuzzard
11-26-2010, 19:10
We only snack on the finest Nonni's Biscotti at the Galt household, so obviously the idea of a Pretzals jar never occurred to me. :rolleyes: Yes, quite, but of course. :D
... found a similar container ... It's 5" square and 8" tall and weighs 4oz ...it's waterproof.I'm liking the idea of square over round for the way it would fit in the pack and also not be as easy to roll away in wind or by small critter assist.
We may be on to something here.
Hang it. Why not?
I used 40 feet of paracord and a Sea to Summit Ultra-sil Dry Sack (20 Liters). The sack worked great until the 100 mile wilderness when mice chewed through it (food bag was hanging on a rope/tuna can contraption in a shelter)
skinewmexico
12-02-2010, 11:50
I wouldn't keep food or a dog in my tent. A lady close to Albuquerque was killed last summer when her dog started yapping at a bear.
Half Note
12-03-2010, 20:23
All this talk has got me more worried about mice than bears.
All this talk has got me more worried about mice than bears.
I can promise you this with almost 100% guarantee..you will see way more mice than bears on the trail and mice will bother or get into food bags at almost a 50 or 100:1 ratio over bears. (Same with tents). fear the rodent my friend!
Mountain Wildman
12-03-2010, 20:52
All this talk has got me more worried about mice than bears.
:eek: Me too,
Now I'm thinking about selling my bear bag set up and buying an Ursack!!
Lone Wolf
12-03-2010, 20:57
separating yourself from your food at night is a dumb thing to do. i have NEVER had my food bag messed with by any kinda critter when it was in my tent with me. we're talkin' hundreds of nites and thousands of miles.
Cookerhiker
12-03-2010, 21:16
separating yourself from your food at night is a dumb thing to do. i have NEVER had my food bag messed with by any kinda critter when it was in my tent with me. we're talkin' hundreds of nites and thousands of miles.
I thought a couple of years ago on the Long Trail, you had a mouse in your tent. Did you get it before it got your foodbag?
Cookerhiker
12-03-2010, 21:21
Hang it. Why not?
I used 40 feet of paracord and a Sea to Summit Ultra-sil Dry Sack (20 Liters). The sack worked great until the 100 mile wilderness when mice chewed through it (food bag was hanging on a rope/tuna can contraption in a shelter)
Man that sounds familiar. Was it by any chance Rainbow Stream Leanto (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=117360)? After hearing and watching the mouse crawl down the line and all over my foodbag, I got up and had to bear-bag it in the dark. Didn't get it very high but far enough away from the mice. I guess they stayed for the other fixins' in the shelter.
Lone Wolf
12-03-2010, 21:36
I thought a couple of years ago on the Long Trail, you had a mouse in your tent. Did you get it before it got your foodbag?
actually it was broad daylight on one of them tent platforms at some pond. tent was wide open and the mouse had balls. i normally never stay on platforms.
Big Dawg
12-04-2010, 08:54
separating yourself from your food at night is a dumb thing to do. i have NEVER had my food bag messed with by any kinda critter when it was in my tent with me.
yep,, same here!!
don't be afraid to sleep w/ your food people.
Cookerhiker
12-04-2010, 09:22
I think I've got the solution - those who bearbag should choose hiking partners who sleep with food in their tent. Then all the food can be stored in the latter's tent. No problem, right?
Consistent with their concerns, the former may want to tent at least 200' away from the latter.
Also it's incumbent upon the former to ensure their food doesn't have odors offensive to the latter.
I think I've got the solution - those who bearbag should choose hiking partners who sleep with food in their tent. Then all the food can be stored in the latter's tent. No problem, right?
That's what we call a 'honey pot'.
On the AT I rarely had to hang my food. I usually slept with it inside my tent. Where regulations require that food be hung, I did so. Where the bears are habituated to getting food from people, keeping food in your tent is asking for trouble, thus the regulations.
Someone asked "why not hang your food?" For me, it's because I eat food in my tent a lot in the evening and morning. It also can be time consuming to hang food properly. I commonly see food hung so a bear could easily get it: next to the tree trunk or five feet off the ground. Hanging food like that is far more likely to cause trouble than having it in your tent.
Again, I hang food when it's required, where I expect to encounter habituated bears, or in grizzly country. Otherwise, I sleep with it.
The key to avoiding mice in your tent is to camp well away from shelters and the standard camping spots.
ChinMusic
12-04-2010, 12:02
I think I've got the solution - those who bearbag should choose hiking partners who sleep with food in their tent. Then all the food can be stored in the latter's tent. No problem, right?
That's exactly what we did on our last AT section hike (GA/NC). My partner gave me their food and I stored it in the tent with me.
All this talk has got me more worried about mice than bears.
Ditto for me. I think i will hang my food in a 'mouse proof'/chew proof bag...
Ditto for me. I think i will hang my food in a 'mouse proof'/chew proof bag...
in no case that I am aware of did a mouse get into a food bag that was hung outside of a shelter. The only occurrences (sp?) of mice getting into food bags (again, that I was awre of) was when the food was either in a tent or hung in a crowded shelter. The mice would defeat the "mouse proof" cans by using the packs and clothing to jump onto the food bag below the can. Outside of the shelter, even if the food was hung so low that any bear or raccoon could have gotten it...I just don't think mice are accustomed to looking for food above ground level.
Cookerhiker
12-04-2010, 15:01
in no case that I am aware of did a mouse get into a food bag that was hung outside of a shelter. The only occurrences (sp?) of mice getting into food bags (again, that I was awre of) was when the food was either in a tent or hung in a crowded shelter. The mice would defeat the "mouse proof" cans by using the packs and clothing to jump onto the food bag below the can. Outside of the shelter, even if the food was hung so low that any bear or raccoon could have gotten it...I just don't think mice are accustomed to looking for food above ground level.
That's consistent with my experience. When I've hung on the tuna can strings in shelters, I've had (sometimes) mouse problems. I usually bear bag from a tree and have never had a problem, whether near a shelter or not.
I'm glad you mentioned raccoons - when I hang, I'm more concerned about them than any other critters. Not all my bearbag hanging has been perfect and I think how a determined raccoon could get it. Thus far, not yet, knock on wood.
I accompanied a thruhiking buddy in '04 for the first 100 miles from Springer. The very first night using the bear cables at Stover Creek Shelter, something got into his foodbag and no one elses - there were about 5 of us there all using the cables. We surmised it was a raccoon. Fortunately it was not a harbinger - he never had another such problem on his successful thruhike.
daddytwosticks
12-04-2010, 20:10
Had a mouse get into my hung food back outside of the new Carter Gap shelter a few years ago. Mouse crap all throughout the food bag w/chew holes everywhere. Couldn't tell if those were poppy seeds on my everything bagel or mouse poo. :)
Half Note
12-05-2010, 18:17
To: mweinstone (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?u=7355)
I see you are the expert on this topic. I'm curious to know if regular paper is sufficient?
To: mweinstone (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?u=7355)
I see you are the expert on this topic. I'm curious to know if regular paper is sufficient?
No way, double ply is the only way to go .... need it too absorb the swamp moisture in the cracks of your ... you know. :banana
thechadders
12-06-2010, 16:08
Personally i sleep with my food unless in a high bear activity area. No matter what you carry as far as food its all about preventing encounters. If you settle down when the bears settle down better chance of not having a bear encounter. The below link explains further.
http://andrewskurka.com/advice/technique/foodprotection_bears.php
I have never had a problem with mice or bears and I like to think its because i follow these tips. There is no reason to hang food and expose it to the elements unless there is evidence of a high bear traffic area.
LoneRidgeRunner
12-06-2010, 16:53
Just curious about your thoughts on not hanging your food bag but keeping your pack either inside your tent or hanging from the shelter hooks.
Also, welcome your advice/suggestions on what kind of bag and rope needed if I must hang my food bag each night along the trail.
Thank you.
I ALWAYS without fail hang my food at least 10 feet off the ground, at least 6 feet from the tree trunk (and other trees) and at least 4 feet below the hanging limb...I have NEVER lost my food to a bear or had a rat eat a hole in my tent....People who sleep with their food in their tent in bear country are asking for it...besides that you will be fined in the GSMNP for not bear bagging at campsites
LoneRidgeRunner
12-06-2010, 16:56
Personally i sleep with my food unless in a high bear activity area. No matter what you carry as far as food its all about preventing encounters. If you settle down when the bears settle down better chance of not having a bear encounter. The below link explains further.
http://andrewskurka.com/advice/technique/foodprotection_bears.php
I have never had a problem with mice or bears and I like to think its because i follow these tips. There is no reason to hang food and expose it to the elements unless there is evidence of a high bear traffic area.
Bears can and sometimes do travel long distances in short time spans so just because you don't see lots of fresh bear tracks and / or droppings doesn't mean they aren't in the area or won't be when you go to sleep. Want your tent ripped apart..that's entirely up to you...
thechadders
12-06-2010, 17:28
Bears can and sometimes do travel long distances in short time spans so just because you don't see lots of fresh bear tracks and / or droppings doesn't mean they aren't in the area or won't be when you go to sleep. Want your tent ripped apart..that's entirely up to you...
The method is to bed down when they bed down. Sure bears can travel long distances and sure they can be mobile during any time of the day. Like I said if you bed down when they do there is less of a chance of encounter. The same in the morning if you get up at sun up. Same idea used in Search and Rescue, its harder for S&R to find you if your moving around. I also carry bear spray with me when I go hiking. So if a bear walks into camp you can spray it.
hikingshoes
05-08-2011, 01:01
I use the PCT Method http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq-hY-jwKaE
and I also use a Ursack Minor http://www.youtube.com/user/hikingshoesck Minor .
Hope this helps.HS
Hang your food and treat your water against parasites. The ~10oz it takes to bring bear bags and water filtering systems will make up for the issues that arise if you ever end up in a situation that could've been easily prevented by aforemetioned bags/filters. Be safe.
Well dang.. I don't treat my water, wash my pot OR hang my food.
I'm going to hiker hell..... :(
Well dang.. I don't treat my water, wash my pot OR hang my food.
I'm going to hiker hell..... :(
Pensylvania?
I put my own together with a Large Cuben Fiber Dry Bag from MLD, http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=148
Thanks, mang. That looks like about the perfect shaped bag for a ULA Circuit! Just ordered two for Mary and me.
SouthMark
05-08-2011, 19:19
Well dang.. I don't treat my water, wash my pot OR hang my food.
I'm going to hiker hell..... :(
See ya there :)
LoneRidgeRunner
05-08-2011, 19:25
I hang my food and anything with an odor but I keep my pack in the tent with me..
Well dang.. I don't treat my water, wash my pot OR hang my food.
I'm going to hiker hell..... :(
see you there!
...besides that you will be fined in the GSMNP for not bear bagging at campsites
...and you will be fined in the Sierra for hanging your food. Why?:-?
It kills bears and causes problems for hikers-but...
some folks can't get past their fears.:(