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Serial 07
11-26-2010, 10:35
how many people are estimated/rumored to have done the AT, PCT and CDT?

neighbor dave
11-26-2010, 10:42
:-? i wunner how many people have actually "covered all the ground" on those trails/routes?:-?;)

Sly
11-26-2010, 11:57
how many people are estimated/rumored to have done the AT, PCT and CDT?

ALDHA West has a 100 something listed, probably double or so that.

Serial 07
11-26-2010, 12:29
thanks sly...i saw your pic on ALDHA website...congrats!

Iceaxe
11-26-2010, 16:01
:-? i wunner how many people have actually "covered all the ground" on those trails/routes?:-?;)

This seems to be quite a contentious subject. A lot of my buddies on the PCT and CDT had already hiked the AT. They tell me trail "purity" is much more of an issue on the AT where the trail is blazed and there is only one route. I suppose I will find out soon enough.
Anyhow I have thought about this subject at length cause it is just about the only true rift I found in the hiker community besides packweight, footware, and food. However the question of judging someone else's achivement has the greatest potential for harm in my opinion so below is my lame attempt to get a handle on it.
I know on my hikes I defined my "success" as a continuous line of steps from Mexico to Canada. The PCT is very well marked and there are only a few alternate routes. The Reds meadow area comes to mind. But generally hikers all stay true to the trail leaving it only to hitch into towns to resupply etc. Most hikers seem to have their own standards about whether to "touch a tree" upon returning to the trail to maitain continuity. some hikers could care less. Some hikers skip sections entirely.
Initially this bothered me cause I saw hikers I knew I had passed suddenly appear out of nowhere and it turned out they had in fact skipped a major section of trail. I realized later in my thru hike that judging others by my standards only disappoints me and is unfair to them.
Who am I to judge?
On the CDT there are a lot of different routes. The trail is not entirely complete and not very well marked in many places. There is an official route, the Jonathan Ley route with alternates, the CDTS routes, Two alternate beginnings and ending routes, and several huge cutoffs in the middle.
Some Northbound hikers take the Creede cutoff due to snow. Some Northbound hikers take the Anaconda cutoff vs the Butte route. Some Southbounders take Butte and the San Juans and then walk highways to finish up.
The freedom of choice regarding the route taken was really a revelation to me on the CDT. For me I chose agaon to create a continuous line of steps between Mexico to Canada regardless of whether I was on the official, Ley, Alternate, CDTS, or my own made up route. I just made sure to connect my steps everytime I left the trail to resupply when I returned.
I guess what i am saying is just be true to yourself. Be true to the route you choose. I feel i have hiked to great long trails and in my own way. I am neither more superior or inferior to anyone else that hiked.
I think we run into trouble when we attempt to judge an individual goals of individuals against one another.
What constiutes a "thru" hike?
If someone hikes a long trail in sections, does it constitute a thru hike when they finish?
These seem to be about the most contentious questions among long distance hikers when they are NOT on trail.
Interstingly once folks are actually out there, particularly on the CDT, everyone you meet is like a brother or sister regardless of whether they are doing a section or a "thru".
I will hike the Appalachian Trail next year. My goal is to create a continuous line of steps between Springer Mountain Georgia and Mt. Katahdin Maine. If i walk into a shelter from one direction and out another I will be satisified with that. I intend to follow the AT trail as closely as possible but if I were to become lost (If it's possible) I will continue forward until i reach the trail again.. just like I did on the PCT and CDT.
When I reach the "Big K" I will celebrate having hiked the Triple Crown. I might ask the ALDHA to recognize my hike or not. Personally the "award" is not the reason I love long distance trails but I think we all have a desire to have our success recognized.
It is interesting that these Long Distance Trails and hiking them is, on it's face, a solitary endevour that has such a social characteristic. And wonderfully so!
I suppose the key is what each person defines as success. Should all our definitions be exactly alike? Does the fact they differ lessen what it means to say, Triple Crown?
I am only qualified to answer these questions for myself.
Who am I to judge anyone else?

Sly
11-26-2010, 17:13
thanks sly...i saw your pic on ALDHA website...congrats!

Thanks Serial. :D



When I reach the "Big K" I will celebrate having hiked the Triple Crown. I might ask the ALDHA to recognize my hike or not. Personally the "award" is not the reason I love long distance trails but I think we all have a desire to have our success recognized.


The plaques are quite nice, and the time ALDHA West has their Gathering is ideal hiking weather. I didn't get mine until three years after I finished the CDT, but was in the area hiking, and made the time to go to the Gathering, mostly to see west coast friends.

Although I liked the western trails more overall, the AT definitely has the best finish on Katahdin.

Have a great hike.

neighbor dave
11-26-2010, 17:28
This seems to be quite a contentious subject. A lot of my buddies on the PCT and CDT had already hiked the AT. They tell me trail "purity" is much more of an issue on the AT where the trail is blazed and there is only one route. I suppose I will find out soon enough.
Anyhow I have thought about this subject at length cause it is just about the only true rift I found in the hiker community besides packweight, footware, and food. However the question of judging someone else's achivement has the greatest potential for harm in my opinion so below is my lame attempt to get a handle on it.
I know on my hikes I defined my "success" as a continuous line of steps from Mexico to Canada. The PCT is very well marked and there are only a few alternate routes. The Reds meadow area comes to mind. But generally hikers all stay true to the trail leaving it only to hitch into towns to resupply etc. Most hikers seem to have their own standards about whether to "touch a tree" upon returning to the trail to maitain continuity. some hikers could care less. Some hikers skip sections entirely.
Initially this bothered me cause I saw hikers I knew I had passed suddenly appear out of nowhere and it turned out they had in fact skipped a major section of trail. I realized later in my thru hike that judging others by my standards only disappoints me and is unfair to them.
Who am I to judge?
On the CDT there are a lot of different routes. The trail is not entirely complete and not very well marked in many places. There is an official route, the Jonathan Ley route with alternates, the CDTS routes, Two alternate beginnings and ending routes, and several huge cutoffs in the middle.
Some Northbound hikers take the Creede cutoff due to snow. Some Northbound hikers take the Anaconda cutoff vs the Butte route. Some Southbounders take Butte and the San Juans and then walk highways to finish up.
The freedom of choice regarding the route taken was really a revelation to me on the CDT. For me I chose agaon to create a continuous line of steps between Mexico to Canada regardless of whether I was on the official, Ley, Alternate, CDTS, or my own made up route. I just made sure to connect my steps everytime I left the trail to resupply when I returned.
I guess what i am saying is just be true to yourself. Be true to the route you choose. I feel i have hiked to great long trails and in my own way. I am neither more superior or inferior to anyone else that hiked.
I think we run into trouble when we attempt to judge an individual goals of individuals against one another.
What constiutes a "thru" hike?
If someone hikes a long trail in sections, does it constitute a thru hike when they finish?
These seem to be about the most contentious questions among long distance hikers when they are NOT on trail.
Interstingly once folks are actually out there, particularly on the CDT, everyone you meet is like a brother or sister regardless of whether they are doing a section or a "thru".
I will hike the Appalachian Trail next year. My goal is to create a continuous line of steps between Springer Mountain Georgia and Mt. Katahdin Maine. If i walk into a shelter from one direction and out another I will be satisified with that. I intend to follow the AT trail as closely as possible but if I were to become lost (If it's possible) I will continue forward until i reach the trail again.. just like I did on the PCT and CDT.
When I reach the "Big K" I will celebrate having hiked the Triple Crown. I might ask the ALDHA to recognize my hike or not. Personally the "award" is not the reason I love long distance trails but I think we all have a desire to have our success recognized.
It is interesting that these Long Distance Trails and hiking them is, on it's face, a solitary endevour that has such a social characteristic. And wonderfully so!
I suppose the key is what each person defines as success. Should all our definitions be exactly alike? Does the fact they differ lessen what it means to say, Triple Crown?
I am only qualified to answer these questions for myself.
Who am I to judge anyone else?
i was joking, hence the ";)"
i enjoyed reading your cdt journal , well detailed for sure:welcome

oso loco
11-26-2010, 17:37
This seems to be quite a contentious subject.

Who am I to judge anyone else?

Good post, Iceaxe.

And you're right -it "can" be a contentious subject. I settled my mind about it a long time ago - anyone who's interested can find my thoughts at this link -

http://spiriteaglehome.com/bb_pure.html

It's much too long to repeat here.

Iceaxe
11-26-2010, 17:41
Thanks!
I guess I had the other thread in mind when I wrote this and I ain't working today. I get a little carried away.. Ya THINK!:sun
But what I said is something that I think about any time I read stuff like that Debate between Dogwood and Stranger.
Also, I am going a little nuts here in Cali thinking about how much I want to be out on the AT hiking. I have never been back east so this is going to be such an awesome new experience! Those ridges and hardwood forests look really different to my eyes. More fun to be had! YeeHaa!

fiddlehead
11-26-2010, 18:03
Thanks Serial. :D
Although I liked the western trails more overall, the AT definitely has the best finish on Katahdin.


Just like the northern terminus of the AT is arguably it's best mile,
So is the Waterton Lakes finish for NOBOers on the CDT.

Unfortunately, so few take that route anymore because of international customs problems.
Looking back at the last passes you came across from the lake is one of the best views on the CDT (and that's saying a lot) http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg201/fiddleheadpa/Waterton_Lakes.jpg

Actually, I believe you can take the Waterton Lakes route and then walk back to the ranger (US) station and get a boat ride so that you don't enter Canada. But, the town of Waterton Lakes and especially the view and some of the restaurants there, (which have reindeer on the menu) are tough to beat.

Sly
11-26-2010, 18:12
Just like the northern terminus of the AT is arguably it's best mile,
So is the Waterton Lakes finish for NOBOers on the CDT.

Unfortunately, so few take that route anymore because of international customs problems.
Looking back at the last passes you came across from the lake is one of the best views on the CDT (and that's saying a lot) http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg201/fiddleheadpa/Waterton_Lakes.jpg

Actually, I believe you can take the Waterton Lakes route and then walk back to the ranger (US) station and get a boat ride so that you don't enter Canada. But, the town of Waterton Lakes and especially the view and some of the restaurants there, (which have reindeer on the menu) are tough to beat.

Yeah, Watertown Lakes area is awesome, as is the Highland Trail in northern Glacier, but finsihing at the monument is kind of lame since it's so flat.

Iceaxe
11-26-2010, 18:48
Waterton was beautiful! I very much enjoted finishing there. Although I heard from other hikers the belly river on the way to finishing at Chief mtn. was beautiful.
There is a Waterton shuttle boat that runs from Waterton Alberta to Goat haunt (US border station).
Actually when I reached Goat Haunt I walked down to the dock just to take a picture. Along came the US customs agent and asked me where i came from. I said "Mexico" of course! He was thrilled. He even stamped my passport with a Goat Haunt stamp (Little Montain Goat!). I had a permit to camp there at Goat haunt as it is the last designated campsite in Glacier NP but it was noon and the border was just around the west side of the lake a few miles away. You are right it is kinda flat there at the monument. I also was unable to lift the top off the brass pyramid to get to the trail register. seems like someone has recently hammered it shut.
Anyhow, I sat on the grass next to the water and looked down the canyon towards the peaks of Glacier. The sun was warm and i very much enjoyed the box of wine and cinnamin rolls i had brought to celebrate.
When you reach waterton town site, just 3 miles from the border monument, you immediately enter a huge campground. mostly RV site but there are free hot showers and plenty of stealth camping if you are smart about it.
I am kinda a nut about being legal so i actually went to the Royal Canadian mounted Police office and anounced my arrival. I had my passport but no other papers or documents besides my California Drivers Liscense. I had already arranged my flight home but they never asked me to produce any proof of that. The officer welcomed me to Canada and made a phone call to Chief Mtn Customs. I answered a few questions like: What is the purpose of your visit? Are you bringing more than X amount of money into Canada? Fruit or Vegetable? etc. The whole thing took ten minutes after which I was free to roam about Canada.
Anyhow, Waterton is an amazing way to end the CDT. Actually the "trail" continues all the way up into the Yukon and from what i saw the scenery gets even more dramatic beyond waterton northward.
Maybe someday I will hike the rest of the way north to the yukon!
From what I have seen in pictures Katahdin, while it is not like Glacier, is still an incredibly dramatic looking setting. I can't wait!

mudhead
11-27-2010, 09:23
The last mile up to Baxter is cool, but won't touch that.