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skooch
12-05-2010, 03:10
I have spent some time reviewing a spray made from peppermint oil and water. sometimes clove oil is added. has anyone tried this on their hanging food bags in the shelters?

mweinstone
12-05-2010, 09:29
will this affect others?i can imagine smelling clove all night and freaking out. peppermint might make me happy if it was a girl useing it but clove? i love clove but dont wanna sleep with her.have you smelled this stuff? maby its encapsulated and dont stink?sounds like folks fear mice for some reason. i dont cause i know how to avoid them. ive posted this tip many times. mice want insulation more than they want food from you. sinch your foodstuff up at the closure with a small amount of a plastic bag protruding out. the mice will ferry bits of plastic all nite and disreguard your food. simularily , tissue balled up and tossed next to you does the same. i ask you to try this folks. somehow hikers have lost this knowlage. this was the standard for years when i was young and then somehow stopped being used. allow me to pass down the info here for you. its fact, the results can be duplicated 100 times out of 100. the tissue method does require prudent picking up of the bits in the morning. but the first time you wake up with your food intack realizing all nite mice were"feeding" on your plastic ziplock or tissue balls without touching your food, in fact running around it to get to the insulation, youll be happy.the pricipal is simple and undeniable. cause it works. instinct has breed the mouse to know that food and insulation are the same, warmth. they know that food lasts one nite, and insulation for nestbuilding lasts longer. food in the form of dropped crumbs and smears at shelters provide all the food they need. they need not climb all the way to your foodbag and chew thru it to eat. thats just a crime of oppurtunity. easily preventable with these methods. please trust this. its fact. allways will be.

tawa
12-05-2010, 10:47
Is a mousetrap an option? That is how you would handle it at your shelter/home away from the trail?

mweinstone
12-05-2010, 10:49
no. its not cool to hunt mice in a shelter. and you wouldnt catch enough to dent their resolve. the method above works, and is the only solve.

Panzer1
12-05-2010, 10:58
Is a mousetrap an option? That is how you would handle it at your shelter/home away from the trail?

Imagine your sleeping in a shelter at night and 12 inches away from your head is a mouse trap. and then a mouse gets caught in the trap. kind of gross isn't it. and hard to sleep through.

Panzer

Wise Old Owl
12-05-2010, 10:59
Peppermint Oil will keep Ants at bay for a short time... I have seen that first hand. It does not work for mice.

4eyedbuzzard
12-05-2010, 11:07
Without getting into the ethics of LNT and disturbing wildlife (especially in NP's), people aren't going to like the smell of all that stuff either. A little mint smells nice - a lot of it, not so good.

Spokes
12-05-2010, 11:08
Matty's right. If I smelled peppermint and clove all night in a shelter I'd expect waking up in the morning to fancy wrapped presents and eggnog.

I pulled into a shelter on last years thru and a fellow had this white powder sprinkled around his entire sleeping bag. Freaky! He told me "Don't mess with the powder!" Ended up being a mouse repellent (http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1932757) powder from Ace Hardware made from fox and bobcat urine. Go figure.

Personally, I think it's crazy carrying the stuff. Carry extra snicker bars instead.

Cookerhiker
12-05-2010, 11:13
Even if it worked, one shouldn't impose the odor on fellow campers in the shelter. Don't assume that everyone likes the smell of mint, clove, etc. Maybe a little in connection with food but not penetrating the sleep atmosphere.

And while another recent thread discounted the problems of bears in most places, wouldn't these spices attract them? Would you really want to fumigate the air - even subtly - at a shelter in the Smokies?

Carbo
12-05-2010, 11:14
Matt's advice is correct.

I put my food in a ziplock, inside a bear box. The mice got in the box, ate (or took) half the ziplock and left the peanut butter sandwich alone.

Wise Old Owl
12-05-2010, 11:18
Yea that would not work either.

I believe - shake away "might" work for skunks, raccoons, squirrel, and cat ... but not mice.

Rat urine works for mice.

Wise Old Owl
12-05-2010, 11:20
Even if it worked, one shouldn't impose the odor on fellow campers in the shelter. Don't assume that everyone likes the smell of mint, clove, etc. Maybe a little in connection with food but not penetrating the sleep atmosphere.

And while another recent thread discounted the problems of bears in most places, wouldn't these spices attract them? Would you really want to fumigate the air - even subtly - at a shelter in the Smokies?

Good point, although peppermint oil would not be considered food, they are attracted to strange smells.

4shot
12-05-2010, 11:22
Yea that would not work either.

I believe - shake away "might" work for skunks, raccoons, squirrel, and cat ... but not mice.

Rat urine works for mice.

but I refuse to collect rat urine for the purpose of keeping mice at bay! The cure is worse than the disease in this case.;)

Wise Old Owl
12-05-2010, 11:24
I have tested this first hand in the house, haven't seen a mouse in the tracking powder for a year.

tawa
12-05-2010, 11:43
Think I'll just bring my Tom Cat with me. Just think how much weight he would gain on a thru hike.

4shot
12-05-2010, 11:57
Think I'll just bring my Tom Cat with me. Just think how much weight he would gain on a thru hike.

regarding cats on the trail. Check it out, although I don't recall the thread title...:-?

skooch
12-05-2010, 11:58
I don't see how peppermint oil would be offensive when everyone stinks to high heaven! Now that's odor. Many forums recommend mint scent for soap because it is found naturally in the wild and will not attract critters. It's recommended as effective on nearly every site when googling natural mice repellent and I've read many a tale of mice raveging a hanging bag. That's why I asked. Guess I'll stay in my tent as not to offend and leave the mice problem to others. See ya'll as I'm snackin' down the trail. Peace

4shot
12-05-2010, 12:27
I don't see how peppermint oil would be offensive when everyone stinks to high heaven! Now that's odor. Peace


that it cancels itself out and is only noticeable to those that don't stink. Five thru-hikers at a shelter...no noticeable odor. Five thru-hikers plus an outside observer at a shelter equals "bad stench". It's the old axom about Schroedinger's cat and the fact that all experiments are influenced to a great degree by the observer!:sun

Wise Old Owl
12-05-2010, 12:31
Skooch - you win, that was the best and the soap is Dr. Bonners with Peppermint Oil



4 Shot, - Why can't thru hikers bathe in a stream now and then?

4shot
12-05-2010, 12:41
4 Shot, - Why can't thru hikers bathe in a stream now and then?

although I'm not sure it's good for the stream and local flora and fauna even if we don't use soap and the "clean" (relative term) doesn't last long either.

Spokes
12-05-2010, 13:14
Mice wearing little red elf hats and scarfs, running around the shelter, overdosed on peppermint and cloves! Too funny.

Cheers!

Wise Old Owl
12-05-2010, 13:35
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/Mouse.jpg

I hear they drink Egg Nog Skipper!

Spokes
12-05-2010, 13:38
hehehehehheheeee

skooch
12-05-2010, 17:46
Thanks Owl and Spokes. Clever boys. peace

Wise Old Owl
12-05-2010, 18:00
What didn't you hear? smoking Clove cigarettes keep mice away.

RevLee
12-05-2010, 22:21
We made bags similar to the ursack out of exploded car air-bags and had no problems this year. You can get them from a junkyard, but take a utility knife with several spare blades - they are hard on knife blades and rodent teeth. Just use a square bottom bag pattern and cinch shut with spectra cord. With the food in an odor proof sack, then the bear bag, we had no problems keeping food in a shelter when we had to.

fredmugs
12-06-2010, 10:24
Even if it worked, one shouldn't impose the odor on fellow campers in the shelter. Don't assume that everyone likes the smell of mint, clove, etc. Maybe a little in connection with food but not penetrating the sleep atmosphere.

I don't care much for mint or cloves but I'm guessing it's preferable to hiker stench.

Tipi Walter
12-06-2010, 10:44
will this affect others?i can imagine smelling clove all night and freaking out. peppermint might make me happy if it was a girl useing it but clove? i love clove but dont wanna sleep with her.have you smelled this stuff? maby its encapsulated and dont stink?sounds like folks fear mice for some reason. i dont cause i know how to avoid them. ive posted this tip many times. mice want insulation more than they want food from you. sinch your foodstuff up at the closure with a small amount of a plastic bag protruding out. the mice will ferry bits of plastic all nite and disreguard your food. simularily , tissue balled up and tossed next to you does the same. i ask you to try this folks. somehow hikers have lost this knowlage. this was the standard for years when i was young and then somehow stopped being used. allow me to pass down the info here for you. its fact, the results can be duplicated 100 times out of 100. the tissue method does require prudent picking up of the bits in the morning. but the first time you wake up with your food intack realizing all nite mice were"feeding" on your plastic ziplock or tissue balls without touching your food, in fact running around it to get to the insulation, youll be happy.the pricipal is simple and undeniable. cause it works. instinct has breed the mouse to know that food and insulation are the same, warmth. they know that food lasts one nite, and insulation for nestbuilding lasts longer. food in the form of dropped crumbs and smears at shelters provide all the food they need. they need not climb all the way to your foodbag and chew thru it to eat. thats just a crime of oppurtunity. easily preventable with these methods. please trust this. its fact. allways will be.

While interesting, this method isn't foolproof and doesn't work reliably. On my last trip I was camped in NC in Slickrock Wilderness and was caught in a long cold rainstorm so I left my foodbags in the tent vesti. While the mice did tear apart a napkin by the foodbag, they also chewed a hole right into the bag and carried out a whole bag of pistachios nut by nut. I got them though with careful waiting and some hammer strikes with my water bottle.


no. its not cool to hunt mice in a shelter. and you wouldnt catch enough to dent their resolve. the method above works, and is the only solve.

What's not cool about it? When they are chewing up things, ya gotta react---maybe every hiker should carry a couple mouse traps and so with 6 in a shelter that's 12 traps---ZAPOLA!


Imagine your sleeping in a shelter at night and 12 inches away from your head is a mouse trap. and then a mouse gets caught in the trap. kind of gross isn't it. and hard to sleep through.

Panzer
No sweat. Wait until they are running all over you and resting up against your neck. When you wake up FROM A MOUSE DREAM and you feel his little claws shoving off from you neck. The sound of a mouse trap going off close to your face is the best sound in the world.


but I refuse to collect rat urine for the purpose of keeping mice at bay! The cure is worse than the disease in this case.;)

Ha ha ha. This reminds me of a LAND OF THE LOST movie moment when Will Ferrell splashes himself with a jug of dinosaur urine. Yes, I carry two liters of mouse pee with me every trip and liberally douse myself before hitting the sac. And it ain't easy getting two liters of mouse pee---you have to coax the little motards.

For tent sleepers, here's a system that works for me: When mice are running all over, zip up your tent completely except for the long horizontal door zipper on one side(if you have two doors). The mice will want to investigate and they will come into the lower unzipped portion. Lay back and try to get some sleep. Sometime in the night one of them will come in thru the opening and you will feel him---quickly get up and zip shut the bottom door. You now have him trapped inside the tent with you so grab your headlamp and water bottle and corner him and take him out. Simple.

Cookerhiker
12-06-2010, 11:03
I don't care much for mint or cloves but I'm guessing it's preferable to hiker stench.

I can't even stand my own, especially the feet:eek:

Cookerhiker
12-06-2010, 11:10
While interesting, this method isn't foolproof and doesn't work reliably. On my last trip I was camped in NC in Slickrock Wilderness and was caught in a long cold rainstorm so I left my foodbags in the tent vesti. While the mice did tear apart a napkin by the foodbag, they also chewed a hole right into the bag and carried out a whole bag of pistachios nut by nut. I got them though with careful waiting and some hammer strikes with my water bottle.



What's not cool about it? When they are chewing up things, ya gotta react---maybe every hiker should carry a couple mouse traps and so with 6 in a shelter that's 12 traps---ZAPOLA!


No sweat. Wait until they are running all over you and resting up against your neck. When you wake up FROM A MOUSE DREAM and you feel his little claws shoving off from you neck. The sound of a mouse trap going off close to your face is the best sound in the world.



Ha ha ha. This reminds me of a LAND OF THE LOST movie moment when Will Ferrell splashes himself with a jug of dinosaur urine. Yes, I carry two liters of mouse pee with me every trip and liberally douse myself before hitting the sac.

For tent sleepers, here's a system that works for me: When mice are running all over, zip up your tent completely except for the long horizontal door zipper on one side(if you have two doors). The mice will want to investigate and they will come into the lower unzipped portion. Lay back and try to get some sleep. Sometime in the night one of them will come in thru the opening and you will feel him---quickly get up and zip shut the bottom door. You now have him trapped inside the tent with you so grab your headlamp and water bottle and corner him and take him out. Simple.

Not only do you believe in "no shelters, tear them down," I thought you camped nowhere near them or established campsites so I'm surprised you've had these experiences re. mice. Conventional wisdom says they're only prevalent where there's lots of campers i.e. not where you camp. So guess they're everywhere?

Tipi Walter
12-06-2010, 11:17
Not only do you believe in "no shelters, tear them down," I thought you camped nowhere near them or established campsites so I'm surprised you've had these experiences re. mice. Conventional wisdom says they're only prevalent where there's lots of campers i.e. not where you camp. So guess they're everywhere?

They are not exactly everywhere, and a brand "new" unused campsite will not have mice. But any established campsite can have a community of mice, whether that campsite is in the Smokies or in a national forest or in a wilderness area like the Citico/Slickrock. Shelters are rife with the little motardos since, hey, they have a permanent building to live in or around. And I usually always camp at established campsites, though sometimes I set up in remote areas where "no man has set up before", etc.

Cookerhiker
12-06-2010, 11:45
Tipi, is there a temperature threshhold that's too cold for mice to be out - 20 degrees, 10? No such thing? I know you do a lot of winter camping - what's the coldest you've had or seen mice?

Tipi Walter
12-06-2010, 11:53
Tipi, is there a temperature threshhold that's too cold for mice to be out - 20 degrees, 10? No such thing? I know you do a lot of winter camping - what's the coldest you've had or seen mice?

As I was reading thru the thread I was thinking about this same exact subject---mice and the cold---and ZAP there is your post on the subject. When it is very cold, like -10F, I don't see the guys, and maybe it's also because there's a foot of snow on the ground. These conditions do thin out their numbers, and I can't remember a mouse romping about in deep snow or in the low ambient digits. They gotta survive too.

sherrill
12-06-2010, 12:25
I can't remember a mouse romping about in deep snow or in the low ambient digits. They gotta survive too.

Especially in snow, they'd be sitting ducks for hawks or foxes.

middle to middle
12-06-2010, 13:24
I spent the night with a very anoying guy once who set six mouse traps and after they snaped shut he got up and reset them. In the morning he made a stew of the mouse meat and ate it. Hows that for practical light weight backpacking.

4eyedbuzzard
12-06-2010, 13:59
As I was reading thru the thread I was thinking about this same exact subject---mice and the cold---and ZAP there is your post on the subject. When it is very cold, like -10F, I don't see the guys, and maybe it's also because there's a foot of snow on the ground. These conditions do thin out their numbers, and I can't remember a mouse romping about in deep snow or in the low ambient digits. They gotta survive too.
They kind of tunnel around under the snow right next to the ground - warmer down there with all the snow insulation. Plus, that's where the food is - below, not on the snow. They also can hibernate, but I don't know for how long or what temps / daylight length triggers that. I do know they are active up here in NH in the winter months at least part of the time, cause I see their little tracks under the snow each spring and have seen them come out on warm days in January. We have voles that do all that too, but the mice are out and about in the cold.

Cookerhiker
12-06-2010, 20:20
Funny how after reading and responding to this thread this morning, I picked up my copy of Walking with Spring while having lunch and randomly opened the book wherein I came upon Earl's mouse story:


"...I...came to a small ramshackle leanto. Rain began and the roof leaked but the most unfortunate thing about the shelter was the mouse that peaked from a cranny. I was forwarned but thought the pack would be safe next to my head. The little rascal was bolder than expected and managed to chew a hole in my waterproof bag, leaving souvenirs in everything including the salt. Most of supplies had to be thrown away."

This occurred in Tennessee about 20 miles south of the Virginia border.

Wise Old Owl
12-06-2010, 20:33
Ha ha ha. This reminds me of a LAND OF THE LOST movie moment when Will Ferrell splashes himself with a jug of dinosaur urine. Yes, I carry two liters of mouse pee with me every trip and liberally douse myself before hitting the sac. And it ain't easy getting two liters of mouse pee---you have to coax the little motards.

.


Tipi - I am almost afraid to ask, what EXACTLY are you doing to coax the little Motards -

Showing them Minnie Mouse Porn?:D

Apparently you prone to exaggerate - Here is two ounces of MM pee...

http://www.99perfume.com/image/MIN17.jpg

Strike a pose....

Low Step
12-06-2010, 21:48
Get an airtight foodbag made of good material and you won't have any problem.

Tipi Walter
12-07-2010, 10:05
Tipi - I am almost afraid to ask, what EXACTLY are you doing to coax the little Motards -

Showing them Minnie Mouse Porn?:D

Apparently you prone to exaggerate - Here is two ounces of MM pee...

http://www.99perfume.com/image/MIN17.jpg

Strike a pose....

Wise Old Owl---I must get URINE from the little bastardos--not SEMEN! But you're dead on, exposure to Minnie Mouse will coax the little detards to release goodly amounts of mouse ejaculate, at least this has proven to be true in my experience. Problem is, and this is generally forgotten by newbs, is that mouse semen collection serves no real purpose except for whatever subjective personal satisfaction a backpacker might get from such an act, whereas URINE collection, when done correctly and splashed from head to foot, actually produces an effective rodent retardant.

Newbs who erroneously coat each other in mouse semen will quickly find themselves surrounded by a group of highly aroused and aggressive alpha mice, who at this point will not care one bit about their food bags. Actually, more research is needed.

Spokes
12-07-2010, 10:46
.......

http://www.99perfume.com/image/MIN17.jpg
........

I thought that was a Minnie Mouse Diva Cup on it's head.

DrRichardCranium
12-07-2010, 11:28
During my thru hike I camped near a shelter in Maine where two guys were staying. There was a mousetrap in the shelter. They set it up and had killed four mice by 8 o'clock. After that they had no probems with mice for the rest of the night.

There are only so many mice at a given shelter. Killing 3 or 4 of them actually makes a big difference.

Wise Old Owl
12-07-2010, 14:25
I thought that was a Minnie Mouse Diva Cup on it's head.

Mmmm, no that's the Baby meese proof cap, might stop some adult mice too. One shouldn't mess with MM pee.:eek:

Dogwood
12-07-2010, 21:33
I would think some combo of peppermint, rosemary, oregano, and tea tree oils would not only repel mice but also be a decent insect repellant for nasties like ticks, chiggers, and some of the flying vampires. Might also be good as an antiseptic on scrapes, to fight fungus in and under toenails, and, of course, as a deodorant. Could put a few drops in hiker laundry too! Don't think it would be wise to spice foods with though!

Spokes
12-07-2010, 22:52
I would think some combo of peppermint, rosemary, oregano, and tea tree oils would not only repel mice but also be a decent insect repellant for nasties like ticks, chiggers, and some of the flying vampires. Might also be good as an antiseptic on scrapes, to fight fungus in and under toenails, and, of course, as a deodorant. Could put a few drops in hiker laundry too! Don't think it would be wise to spice foods with though!
You'd be a hit with all the lady hikers too!

skooch
12-08-2010, 13:32
Geat thinking Dogwood. multiple uses is what it's all about! can't wait to give this a try. Just wonder if trying to carry a gallon of it will be enough. lol