View Full Version : Verdict on Knee is in.
Freedom Walker
12-12-2010, 18:10
I had a MRI last Tuesday of my left knee and the verdict is in, torn medial meniscus. The Orthopedic Doctor said I also had arthritis under the knee cap. The pain began two months ago as I was descending down Blood Mt at Neel Gap. I was using poles. The tear is the type brought on through wear and tear on the knee and age. I told the doc that I didn’t even remember when it happened. He said that can happen and you won’t know that it is until later. No doubt the many years of stocking groceries by swatting repeatedly created the wear and tear.
Now I must decide what to do, surgery or not. The tear is in the “White zone” where there is no blood flow, so self healing is not possible, according to the doctor. Pain is only a 2 or 3 but what would further hiking do to it? Surgery, even if successful puts me out of commission for a while. I thought I should try to drop 15 or 20 pounds. I am 210 now, but I was 195 earlier this year. Also, build up the knees with very specific exercises, while wearing a knee brace.
I know there are many more of you on this forum that have faced the same decision, so I asking you for advice. I want to get back on the AT next year, preferably in the spring, but late summer would be acceptable. I am very determined to succeed.
I know diddly about the subject, but I recommend the following:
1. You said it won't heal itself, so schedule surgery to take place after the holidays.
2. Start watching your diet now. Lessen the load for a faster recovery.
3. Be faithful to your physical therapy plan and you'll be back on the Trail before you know it.
from someone who has had that injury, among other knee injuries, and 4 knee surgeries, I would recommend getting it fix. Torn meniscus will never heal on its own. The tear will likely get worse with more activity and you will really start feeling the grinding in the knee, get inflammation along with fluid build up and of course more pain. Arthoscopic surgery is very minor and only leaves a small (1 inch) scar or two. The healing time is quick for this type of surgery. You will be on crutches for 1-4 days. Walking like normal pain free in about 2-3 weeks. Best thing to do post surgery is use the knee. Walk and do physical therapy (most of which can be done at home on your own). I have had this injury/surgery once. The other 3 times I also had ligament tears and had them reconstructed.
I am not a surgery nut, but I do believe in getting it fixed when broken. Pills and exercise won't fix torn or broken things in your knee. I tried it before surgery. Choice is yours, just providing my perspective.
Diet Orange Soda
12-12-2010, 19:45
I too am having a knee scope next Friday to repair a torn meniscus. I also do not know when mine happened but need to get it fixed because I am not giving up hiking either. My doctor has told me that I will need a total knee replacement in the next five years but after I have that I wil be able to do everything I was doing before. I have been researching on here people whe have had TKR and most of them seem to be able to continue hiking with no problems. My plans are to hike the AT in 2013 but I need my knee healed for Sept 2011 because I am hiking the Grand Canyon Rim To Rim for my 60th birthday. I will let you know how I do after next week but I too am determined to be able to continue hiking.
Sounds like my situation this Fall, VA hike was REALLY painful, came home, MRI, arthroscopy, walked out, no crutches, iced, stretched and walked every hour, that was 6 weeks ago........I am back to 90%, was planning on getting back onto the AT yesterday in southern VA for 7-8 days, knee is not quite ready and weather down south is nasty cold, icy and snowy which would not be safe right now.
Surgery is like getting a cavity filled, no biggie, glad I did it, a few weeks ago I was in less pain than before the surgery. I am 235 and need to drop 20, working on that before spring hike.
Rick Hancock
12-12-2010, 20:27
I wish you good luck. I've had both knees done. Torn Meniscus in each.The left knee went out after a lousy 7 mile day hike, I had artho done appx. 5 years ago with great results, quick healing and a slight pain every now and then. The right knee was bothering me and went out during a cold weather hike along the AT above Dripping Rock. I limped out with a knee that looked like a cantaloupe and had surgery a few days later. I followed the same theraphy but the knee never responded sever pain, swelling, etc. I work a physical job and thought I came back too soon. They repeated the artho. and I went through theraphy again. The knee has never been right and I'm told there is bone ion bone and I'll need a partial knee which will give me several years of service and then a total. I'm saving sick leave so I can get this done. I try to limit my hiking to 8-12 miles a day on weekend hikes and I use treking poles. I'm not bothered by uphill or downhill travel instead I have a sensation where messages to my knee from my brain don't register for several seconds. I "tell my left knee/leg to do something and the reaction is immediate, but the right knee/leg takes a few seconds to react. Same thing happened when I tried to use clipless pedals on my Mt. Bike I had to go back to toe cages. It's a weird feeling and the only way I can explain it. Please make sure you get a Doctor who understands sports related injuries. I'm 55 but I and other's on this site who are older do things that not every 55/65 year old person does.
Rowdy Yates
12-12-2010, 20:38
I have the same thing. I see a VA Orthopedic Doctor on the 13th of January. The pain is the worst with weight bearing. Some days I can hardly walk. I'm hoping that I can get the Arthro Surgery done, physical therapy done and be able to get back on the Trail in May.
rainmaker
12-12-2010, 21:44
If any of you folks ever get this knee issue sorted out please let us know. My wife, Madame, had walked every mile from Springer to Great Barrington over an eight year stretch and then suddenly last year her right knee began swelling. The first orthopedist said it was arthritis, take some V I and move on. Something didn't seem right so we visited another orthopedist, a sports one, and he removed several syringes of blood from her knee. An MRI showed a damaged muniscus which he attempted to correct with arthroscopic surgery. Her swelling went down and her range of motion improved but the pain remained. Subsequent X-rays indicate bone on bone arthritis.
This year she underwent a series of three injections of a substance created from algae that would hopefully provide some cushioning and would allow us to get back on the trail. It was minimally successful. We finished Mass. but after descending Greylock north bound, her knee looked like a cantalope and the pain was not tolerable; end of 2010 hike.
We have spoken to the orthopedist about knee replacement and he said it will probably be necessary in the future but advised against until absolutely necessary. His reasoning is that at her age, 60, a knee replacement now would not outlast her, they normally last about 15 years and she would have to have a second one in her mid 70's. His experience has been that successive knee replacements present diminishing positive results especially among patients in their late 70's and older.
Madame wishes to continue hiking and will probably be able to do so but not on the AT in NH and Maine and for long distances. Of course if any of you all know of or learn of a magic elixer or procedure, please share.
Forgot to mention, a good friend who just completed an Ironman in Lake Placid was poised for knee surgery during his training, took some time off, TAKES 3 INSTAFLEX PILLS EVERY MORNING, no pain, completed the Ironman which is amazing. He biked but never ran or swam before this.
I have been taking Instaflex since my surgery, cannot tell if it is working or not but I am in ZERO pain 6 weeks from surgery and am working out hard.
Kind of expensive but he says you can buy it direct from the company for under $35 per bottle.
My Doctor said DEFINITELY TAKE GLUCOSAMINE
Freedom Walker
12-12-2010, 23:12
Thanks for sharing your stories so far. I know I am not the only one who has faced this problem. My wife has had the surgery on both knees, twice on one knee. She is also a nurse. She warns me that my knee may even be worse and move me closer to possible knee replacement which is what she faces with the knee that has been operated on twice. I gness that is what I am concerned with. Hiking the AT has been a passion for me for a while and at my age, I don't want opportunities to pass by. I will be watching for posts of you who about to have the same surgery.
Does anyone take Glucosamine while thru hiking? I take it at home but hadn't planned on carrying it on the trail.
Shutterbug
12-13-2010, 00:36
Thanks for sharing your stories so far. I know I am not the only one who has faced this problem. My wife has had the surgery on both knees, twice on one knee. She is also a nurse. She warns me that my knee may even be worse and move me closer to possible knee replacement which is what she faces with the knee that has been operated on twice. I gness that is what I am concerned with. Hiking the AT has been a passion for me for a while and at my age, I don't want opportunities to pass by. I will be watching for posts of you who about to have the same surgery.
I have not had knee problems, but I have faced the same kind of decision 3 different times. The decision was to live out the rest of my life with a serious medical problem or take the time and risk to have the medical problem fixed. Each time, I have opted for the treatment.
At age 67, hiking is still a major part of my life. That wouldn't be the case if I hadn't taken treatment. My advice is to have the surgery.
Diet Orange Soda
12-13-2010, 10:26
which Instaflex product do you take? I looked online and saw bone support, joint support and a multivitamin or do you take all three?
Freedom Walker, I had a very simmilar experience as you. My first attempt at a thru-hike I was 65 years old. I was in average shape. I hiked NOBO getting as far as Fontana Dam and had to leave the trail with sevear knee pain. Went home and went to a orthopedic doctor. He found three problems. I had a bad stress fracture , arthritis and a slight miniscus tear. The stress fracture would heal with rest. After a couple of months I still had some pain that kept me from hiking. I saw a physicial thearpst who recommended some excercises to strenthen the muscles that support the knee. I also started to take glucosamine / chondroitin. By winter my knees felt good. I was able to ski but wore a knee support. Come spring I was ready to start the AT again. I started from Fontana and hiked to Katahdin compleating the AT. I had no knee problems at all. I would take one Aleve in the AM and another at night. Wore the knee brace and continued with the glucosamine/ chondroitin. I also took it easy the first couple of weeks. I started by doing 6-8 mile days and working up to 14-16 mile days. I also took a "O" every 5 days for the first month.
It all worked for me, I hope it helpes you.
Freedom Walker
12-14-2010, 22:30
I had a very simmilar experience as you. My first attempt at a thru-hike I was 65 years old. I was in average shape. I hiked NOBO getting as far as Fontana Dam and had to leave the trail with sevear knee pain. Went home and went to a orthopedic doctor. He found three problems. I had a bad stress fracture , arthritis and a slight miniscus tear. The stress fracture would heal with rest. After a couple of months I still had some pain that kept me from hiking. I saw a physicial thearpst who recommended some excercises to strenthen the muscles that support the knee. I also started to take glucosamine / chondroitin. By winter my knees felt good. I was able to ski but wore a knee support. Come spring I was ready to start the AT again. I started from Fontana and hiked to Katahdin compleating the AT. I had no knee problems at all. I would take one Aleve in the AM and another at night. Wore the knee brace and continued with the glucosamine/ chondroitin. I also took it easy the first couple of weeks. I started by doing 6-8 mile days and working up to 14-16 mile days. I also took a "O" every 5 days for the first month.
It all worked for me, I hope it helpes you.
__________________
Grampie-N->2001
Thanks Grampie for sharing your experience. I know everyone is different, injuries are different, but I hope, pray for an outcome such as yours. My wife, the nurse, who has had 3 knee surgeries, said that I can go ahead and have it, but I must live with the result, there is no returning. I may eventually choose surgery but for a couple of months I will do the following.
1. Lose 15- 20 lbs. I am 210 lbs now and dropping the extra wt during the Holidays will be fun.
2. Take Osteo Bi-Flex, along with additional MSM. I started Monday.
3. Following Drs Orders, take one Celebrex a day.
4. Use the whirlpool 3 or 4 times a week.
5. Develop proper exercises to strengthen the knee.
6. Avoid swatting when possible
7. If I see improvement in 4-6 weeks, try a day hike, using a knee brace.
8. Continue to work on reducing my pack weight.
9. Finally, if I don’t have good improvement, submit to surgery in late Jan or early Feb.
Conventional wisdom says torn cartilage doesn’t heal. I know that, and what I hope to do is get my knee to a place where the pain is manageable and understand that while backpacking, for now 8-10 miles daily should be the max for me. I'll report back later.
Skidsteer
12-14-2010, 22:51
If any of you folks ever get this knee issue sorted out please let us know. My wife, Madame, had walked every mile from Springer to Great Barrington over an eight year stretch and then suddenly last year her right knee began swelling. The first orthopedist said it was arthritis, take some V I and move on. Something didn't seem right so we visited another orthopedist, a sports one, and he removed several syringes of blood from her knee. An MRI showed a damaged muniscus which he attempted to correct with arthroscopic surgery. Her swelling went down and her range of motion improved but the pain remained. Subsequent X-rays indicate bone on bone arthritis.
This year she underwent a series of three injections of a substance created from algae that would hopefully provide some cushioning and would allow us to get back on the trail. It was minimally successful. We finished Mass. but after descending Greylock north bound, her knee looked like a cantalope and the pain was not tolerable; end of 2010 hike.
We have spoken to the orthopedist about knee replacement and he said it will probably be necessary in the future but advised against until absolutely necessary. His reasoning is that at her age, 60, a knee replacement now would not outlast her, they normally last about 15 years and she would have to have a second one in her mid 70's. His experience has been that successive knee replacements present diminishing positive results especially among patients in their late 70's and older.
Madame wishes to continue hiking and will probably be able to do so but not on the AT in NH and Maine and for long distances. Of course if any of you all know of or learn of a magic elixer or procedure, please share.
I learned from a friend of mine that had knee replacement today that the new knees are designed with replaceable parts for the components that most commonly wear out.
Sort of like brake shoes for an automobile. These are replaced arthroscopically so it's minimally invasive.
Thought you might want to check that out. Personally, if I needed a knee or hip replacement I would inform the Doctor when I was having it done, not the other way around. Who knows what tomorrow will bring?
Freedom Walker has a great plan. I developed Illotibial Band Syndrome in Oct-09 while hiking down the north side of Blood Mountain. Several months of physical therapy taught me the importance of stretching, and strengthening exercises to develop the muscles that support the knee.
Best advice:
1. lost weight, I don't know your height, but getting down at least 20-25 pounds would REALLY help you and your knees, feet and back, and stamina on the trail
2. try the Cho-pat knee brace while hiking, its the best knee brace i've ever used while hiking
3. work on stretching exercises for the hamstrings, quads, calves and plantar fascia
4. take the glucosamine supplements
5. do the surgery for the torn meniscus, it will not heal on its own. New scope surgery has quick healing times.
6. take the time now while its winter, the best hiking season on the AT won't start til next April. You have 3-4 months to get your knee taken care of before getting back out there. Do the physical therapy and learn all you can on anatomy and the muscular skeletal system so you can be your own mechanic when it comes to repairing the body
good luck
Well My MRI results are back and consulted, I am scheduled for surgery second week in january.
Torn meniscus as well.
The plan is to have both wheels back by spring......I will miss winter hiking, it is my favorite time of the year.
Yep, fat boy is on a diet.
Freedom Walker
12-30-2010, 11:32
Well My MRI results are back and consulted, I am scheduled for surgery second week in january.
Torn meniscus as well.
The plan is to have both wheels back by spring......I will miss winter hiking, it is my favorite time of the year.
Yep, fat boy is on a diet.
New Year, new beginnings. Keep us posted with your results. I am undecided about my surgery. I have been exercising and my knee is sightly better. Even right now as I type this I am sitting up with a heating pad on it. I plan on taking a day hike on a local mountain on Jan 8th and if I do poorly I will go for the surgery around the end of Jan.
James
Blissful
12-30-2010, 14:57
Well My MRI results are back and consulted, I am scheduled for surgery second week in january.
Torn meniscus as well.
The plan is to have both wheels back by spring......I will miss winter hiking, it is my favorite time of the year.
Yep, fat boy is on a diet.
Well at least you can look forward to a nice spring comeback. Take care
Sitting here with heating pad on my knee right now as well
Slosteppin
12-30-2010, 21:59
I suggest picking the time of year you least mind sitting at home for a few months and schedule the surgery.
I started having pains in my right knee last April. Then the pain started moving - hip, upper leg back to the knee. My doctor had X-rays done and said it was a ruptured disk in my back. He said this usually heals in about a year. After 3 more months of hiking with severe pain I asked about surgery. The orthopedic surgeon had an MRI and more pictures done. Then he said I had spinal stenosis and that it would just keep on getting worse.
I had back surgery in October. After 2 weeks of healing I started physical therapy. Now I'm doing my exercises every day and trying to get stronger. I'm up to 2 miles walking a day. A year ago I thought 10 or 15 miles was easy. They tell me complete healing will take about 6 months.
Some days I get back or leg aches from trying to do too much too fast. The good part is I've had no more of the leg pains that stopped me from hiking.
So faR I think surgery was the right decision.
Slosteppin
My advice is to search the internet for studies that report on the long term outcomes of orthopedic surgery. These guys make their living cutting people.
Three years ago I had two surgeons tell me that there was no cure for the severe shoulder pain that I was experiencing except reconstructive surgery. I detected a bit of surprise in one of the docs voice when He looked at the Xrays, so I delayed making a decision.
The pain disappeared all by itself a couple of months later and has never returned. I've since discovered research that found no difference after five years, regardless of whether folks with back pain had had a common back surgery or not.
Unfortunately Google seems to be increasingly controlled by it's advertisers and real research is getting harder to find. But with persistence it can be found.
Studies have also shown that the popularity of some surgeries, depended on where one lives. Your diagnosis depends on the specialties of regional surgical teams.
HiKen2011
12-31-2010, 00:45
I've had the knee surgery, best decision I ever made. Good luck!
Well, the worst part is the weight loss thing.
Basically I get to sit on the couch alternating hot and cold and think about food.
Let me see, All of my new years favorites are on the table, sour krautballs, Marinaded mushrooms, beef rolls, home made soft pretzels with home made mustard. Some sorta apricot horseradish cheese dip, the kids had a pizza delivered. The cheese and cracker tray, I did have some radishes and green peppers.
Pure torture.
This is day three of the diet.......1200 calories per day. we will see in a week if it is working.
Took a nice New Years Day hike this morning in the snow, right knee feels fine. I am glad that right after surgery I iced hourly, stretched and walked hourly as well. I have worked out as hard as I can short of pain, 10 weeks later I am almost ready to get back onto the AT.
Will start with a 20 lb pack tomorrow morning and add 5 lbs per week until March 13th Section hike in Southern Va.
I expect pain of some sort after every hike, then deal with it in preparation for my next hike.
Freedom Walker
01-01-2011, 18:51
Well, the worst part is the weight loss thing.
Pure torture.
This is day three of the diet.......1200 calories per day. we will see in a week if it is working.
Lostone, 1200 cal a day? What are you eating.
LoneRidgeRunner
01-01-2011, 20:37
Does anyone take Glucosamine while thru hiking? I take it at home but hadn't planned on carrying it on the trail.
I take Glucosamine with MSM at home and also carry it whenever I hike. I'm planning a section hike of the AT through the GSMNP in March of 2011 and will take 10 days worth of it with me. I have mild Arthritis and it does seem to help and is the only thing I use for it.
Yes..I'm a slow hiker. I believe in taking my time and enjoy my trips and am not out to break records or see how fast I can cover miles, so I'm planning an average of just over 7 miles per day.
So every one save your fingers before you go telling me this is only a 4 day hike. I met a guy once at Double Spring Gap shelter who planned 4 days for it and he caught a ride with me to Gatlinburg after 4 days from Fontana Dam to Clingman's Dome.
Lets see I have a diet shake for breakfast with my multivitamin Salad for lunch, lots of peppers, carrots and radishes, Dinner salad with a small amount of chicken and a little vinegarette. I will have air popped popcorn for a snack.....no salt or butter......believe it or not it grows on you when you are hungry.
I have finally stopped being hungry all of the time, now it is just occasionally.
I don't weigh in till thursday......so it will be interesting.
worse is I cannot exercise to help get the weight off. I wouldn't mind walking for a couple of hours a day to help
hikingshoes
01-04-2011, 13:26
Does anyone take Glucosamine while thru hiking? I take it at home but hadn't planned on carrying it on the trail.
I have off and on for over 2-3yrs now.It comes in a power now which i love.
I noticed the cloths fitting looser, couldn't wait. I am down 12 lbs in 6 days, I work at a hospital and I am utilizing some of the rehab equipment to get some exercise.
Well I should be down to were I need to be by the end of summer. I understand that the first week isn't true fat loss. mostly water and colon cleanse.
Freedom Walker
01-06-2011, 00:01
[QUOTE=Lostone;1088671]I noticed the cloths fitting looser, couldn't wait. I am down 12 lbs in 6 days
You got me beat, I only have lost 2 lbs, and 28 to go if I get to 180. I am 6-2 and I will look thin at that weight. Maybe 190 is better. James
writeronthestorm
01-06-2011, 00:45
Reading this thread really scares the crap out of me. I start NOBO on March 28 and my knee pain in training has been bothering me. I've never injured my knees that I know of, but lately they have just been in pain on and off. I'm really crossing my fingers that its nothing serious. I am quite a bit younger than most of you folks so hopefully its not a tare or arthritis or anything. I plan on going to the doc to get it checked out, I just haven't made it there yet... I'm going to be pretty devastated if someone tells me I cant go on my hike.
Reading this thread really scares the crap out of me. I start NOBO on March 28 and my knee pain in training has been bothering me. I've never injured my knees that I know of, but lately they have just been in pain on and off. I'm really crossing my fingers that its nothing serious. I am quite a bit younger than most of you folks so hopefully its not a tare or arthritis or anything. I plan on going to the doc to get it checked out, I just haven't made it there yet... I'm going to be pretty devastated if someone tells me I cant go on my hike.
Just go easy until the knees strengthen. They will. If you have the willpower to let nature takes its course.
Just do five miles a day at first -- or maybe only three. Mileage will come if you don't rush your conditioning. I started two weeks shy of 64 after a lifetime desk job and once a month weekends.
It took me five days to reach Neels Gap with a 50+ pound pack. Six months and three days to reach Katahdin mostly with a 35# pack.
Freedom Walker
01-18-2011, 23:13
Well I finally have set a date for knee surgery, Feb 11. The knee feels some better, but I just can't take a chance that this could be a wasted year. I need to get this over not only to save the hiking season but I got to build a deck this spring and if all goes well i will get to resume the next section of the AT in Sept. There were some who where going the surgery route and I wondered how you have done.
Here I sit day 6 post op. Surgery went fantastic, bone chips are still in place because they were attached. Knee is a little stiff still, the torn meniscus was stitched back in instead of removed. He also took care of the arthritis on the back of the knee cap.
Completely off pain meds, just icing and elevated currently. I am not gonna say I am completely pain free yet, but it is a heck of a lot better than before.
My surgeon is the guys who takes care of all of the local Pro sports team and specializes in sports injury recovery. I would recommend shopping around for your surgeon and find one you connect with, l like mine, no nonsense and he clearly understood my post op expectations.
In a nutshell, I couldn't be happier.
Rhendryx
01-23-2011, 15:55
I had surgery for a torn miniscus about 14 months ago. I was walking without crutches the next day, but with some pain. I was walking without pain within a few days and back on the treadmill within a couple weeks. I did have lingering pain in the knee, though. I began taking a product called Flex Now which is available at many health food stores. Flex Now removed the lingering pain. I also take Glucosimine on a daily basis and no longer have any knee pain.
I weighed 313 when I tore the miniscus (running though an airport) and now weigh 200. 3 days per week in the gym for weights and 5 or 6 days a week of cardio and the knee doesnt bother me a bit.
Good luck with your surgery!
JaxHiker
02-07-2011, 17:08
Well I finally have set a date for knee surgery, Feb 11. The knee feels some better, but I just can't take a chance that this could be a wasted year. I need to get this over not only to save the hiking season but I got to build a deck this spring and if all goes well i will get to resume the next section of the AT in Sept. There were some who where going the surgery route and I wondered how you have done.
Hope it goes well for you. This thread really got my attention after this past weekend. I hiked a very easy 10-12 miles with very little in the way of inclines/declines. However, about mile 7 my left knee started hurting and the poles weren't helping.
I finished out the hike and at the end of the 1.5 hr drive home I didn't think I was going to be able to get out of the truck. I hobbled into the house and getting the ice and making it to the bedroom was something I don't want to experience again. I don't recall ever being in such excruciating pain in my life. The slightest movement would make me want to scream.
Oddly enough a couple of hours later I was able to walk again and it was only marginally sore yesterday and I'm 100% today. No idea what it is but I've had very minor pain before. I guess I'll be heading to the doctor for an x-ray or something just to be safe.
Unfortunately I'm pushing 40 and standing 6'1" and weighing about 205 I guess I'm technically overweight. It's time to drop the 15-20 lbs I've been talking about for a while.
Well I am 12 weeks post op. Knee is good, still a little pain from where the doc scraped the arthritis off my tibia.
Lost 40 pounds since christmas.
Weather has broken here, I am surprised how I am limited to about 5 miles before pain sets in. I will keep rehabing it and hopefully the miles will come.