View Full Version : Staying Dry with UL Tarps
I am an experienced hiker (especially on the AT). I am planning a section hike this spring from Hot Springs to Damascus. I'm not truly an "ultra lite" guy - but I am very careful about weight. Right now my "base pack weight" is about 15 pounds (not counting food and water). I think I can get it down a couple of more pounds if I can figure out how to use a tarp. I have never had trouble getting shelter space - but I am afraid it might be tough in May in this section. Bottom line is - I am considering a Poncho/Tarp that will serve double duty but I am really concerned about keeping my sleeping bag wet. I would really appreciate any comments, thoughts or suggestions. Thanks to all !
OOPS - meant to say "keeping my sleeping bag from getting wet" !!!!!!
ec.hiker
12-18-2010, 22:17
You don't like a wet bag lol just kididng. I have been considering goin to a tarptent myself. I have been checking out a bunch of different designs. Some of which allow you to have part of you tarp act as a ground sheet check out this video all of this ladyies videos are pretty tight her nam eon here is brawny. There is still a couple things stopping me from tarping. One I live in S E NC we have lots of snakes I like to be totally zipped up to ensure no visitors. And to be 100% perfectly honest I am just a touch afraid of the dark don't ask me why I have no idea but I like to be in an enclosed area its kind of like having my head under the covers. This is only a mus if I am by myself.
http://youtu.be/cnMp3Ienwd8
skinewmexico
12-18-2010, 22:30
If you tarp is big enough, and you have a groundcloth, you should be able to pitch the tarp low enough to keep any blowing rain out. Or get a tarptent. Or add an ultralight bivy like the ones from TiGoat or MLD.
garlic08
12-18-2010, 22:36
The advantage of tarps and tarptents is the greater water shedding area. You can get a larger dry area for very little weight penalty. In my Tarptent Contrail for instance, the edge of the canopy is nearly 12" away from the sleeping floor, unlike the freestanding tents I used to use where the rainfly attached directly adjacent to the sleeping floor. This always led to small leaks which aren't an issue anymore. Of course, this all comes at the cost of needing a larger area to pitch in, but that's seldom on issue on the southern AT. It becomes a greater issue in NH and ME.
The OP is asking about poncho tarps, not tarptents.
My friend is an expert on hiking light on the cheap and he swears by his poncho tarp. He pitches it in an 'A' frame style between two trees. I believe the dimensions of his tarp are 8' by 5' so its a tight fit (fold it over a line and its only 2.5' on each side) but he stays dry. He stakes the corners directly to the ground, no guylines so wind doesn't blow in from the sides. A simple piece of tyvek is used as a ground clothe. The whole set up (poncho, stakes, rope, and tyvek) weighs less than a pound.
I'm looking into using a similar method for my next hike, but with two changes. 1. I plan on bringing extra rope and stakes so I can use my trekking poles instead of trees. 2. I will have a piece of no-see-um mesh for bug protection, both under the tarp and in shelters. This is one advantage to using a tarp as opposed to a tarptent. Versatillity is the name of the game.
Kerosene
12-18-2010, 23:32
I'm a big proponent of adding a lightweight bivy to a UL tarp setup. Check out this selection of bivys from Mountain Laurel Designs (http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/index.php?cPath=22&page=1&sort=3a). I'm not a big fan of bivys during bug season, so I go with a Lunar Solo at other times.
Thanks for all the ideas.
I will just have to try some ideas out in the back yard before hitting the trail.
EC Hiker - Did you notice that I'm from Myrtle Beach.
No good hiking here - Always trying to "escape" to the AT.
couscous
12-18-2010, 23:47
Maybe QiWiz (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?u=12511) will see this and respond. He often uses a Six Moon Designs Gatewood Cape poncho/tarp.
I would worry that a poncho tarp might not be big enough to put one end on the ground and still have enough fabric to provide complete coverage and have enough room to prevent contact between the bag and walls. Of course, you could build a custom beak to take care of this. That's what I'm planning to do with my big 10x12' tarp so that I can keep it relatively high yet still prevent horizontal rain from getting in.
I am an experienced hiker (especially on the AT). I am planning a section hike this spring from Hot Springs to Damascus. I'm not truly an "ultra lite" guy - but I am very careful about weight. Right now my "base pack weight" is about 15 pounds (not counting food and water). I think I can get it down a couple of more pounds if I can figure out how to use a tarp. I have never had trouble getting shelter space - but I am afraid it might be tough in May in this section. Bottom line is - I am considering a Poncho/Tarp that will serve double duty but I am really concerned about keeping my sleeping bag wet. I would really appreciate any comments, thoughts or suggestions. Thanks to all !
PR, it's like the old song says, 'every form of refuge has it's price.' Generally speaking, a tarp is dyer than a tent because of the better air flow. You get a feel for a good camp site after a while and letting the terrain help protect you is second nature. You just pitch the end or side that faces the wind lower. When the front moves through in the middle of the night and the wind changes direction, you have to be ready to re peg your tarp, but that is not often.
A small tarp, like a poncho, can be backed up by using your pack or pack liner to cover the foot of your bag until the rain stops. Just don't stay in it all night because you do not want to get your bag wet from body moisture which will not be able to escape the waterproof barrier. Also you can fold the end of your ground cloth over your bag. My ground cloth has a fold taped in one end that can hold the bag in place so that it does not migrate out from under the tarp. I think a lot of people use a bivy but it seems to me that a bivy just adds enough weight to make a roomier, and bug proof, tent just as good weight wise and a lot better comfort wise.
Small tarps are great for most people who like tarping. You might want to consider starting out with an 8x10 or 9x9 (even cut from a plastic drop cloth of about 3mil) as you hone your tarping skills. A larger size is better if you will be camping where privacy is an issue for bathing and dressing.
Pack your tarp in an outside pocket or tie it to your pack to have it ready to use in a sudden rain or as a sun shelter for lunchtime--you will wonder why you ever carried a tent.
Great ideas! I really appreciate the info !
I do think I will start with a larger tarp - then see if I can evolve to a smaller one.
See you on the AT !
I am currently using a tarp bivy combo and it works very good. Dry and light-- The tarp is 7 oz (MLD) and the bivy 7 oz ( Equinox ) Yhis gives a variety of use and weather protestion. In the summer I can substitute a bug bivy 6oz for insect protection . Can also use tha bivys in the shelters also which makes for even more options
Black Wolf
12-19-2010, 15:24
I would worry that a poncho tarp might not be big enough to put one end on the ground and still have enough fabric to provide complete coverage and have enough room to prevent contact between the bag and walls. Of course, you could build a custom beak to take care of this. That's what I'm planning to do with my big 10x12' tarp so that I can keep it relatively high yet still prevent horizontal rain from getting in.
here's a great way to pitch a 10x12...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir-5R9PCIok
To me this is a bug issue, mice and other critters as well, snakes included. I for one like my lightweight "hotel room", Tarp tent is 34 ounces and has a LOT of room.....not sure how much weight one would save with a large tarp, probably need a ground cloth, and extra line/rope. There are a lot of storms I have slept through in a tent that i would not have wanted to go through with a tarp. Setup time is also an issue, I can pitch in minutes and be settled inside quickly.
In Washington I had a Squall Classic Tarptent and another guy nearby had a tarp, bigger than a poncho tarp. I was soaking wet in the night. When I walked by him in the morning, he looked drier than me.
I would worry about staying dry under a poncho. A larger tarp would probably be better.
When I was researching tarps I did a lot of googling, especially looking for images. I found this site with lots of useful images:
http://halbertri.tripod.com/tarps.htm
And this one, if you scroll way down and look for "Ryan's tarp in a storm pitch". It didn't look like something I would be comfortable with, but apparently it worked for him.
http://www.adventurealan.com/Montana_2002/beartooth_fishing/index.htm
For most use, I think a small tarp/bivy combo is more versatile for a variety of conditions. I always carry a UL breathable bivy with me. Most of the time, that is my shelter; protection from wind, added warmth (more then a single wall tent due to less air to heat), and bug protection. It can be useful in a shelter situation too. The small tarp only gets used for real weather. All that for less then 15oz including stakes and line. Condensation hasn't been an issue for me in years. And, if you know what you are doing, I've been in horizontal rain and snow with no issues with staying dry. I've not had any trouble keeping my down quilt dry.
A Poncho tarps work for many backpacking situations and shine on trips where rain isn't likely and you only are worried about the occasional storm. But if you are going to be days and days of rain, I would not go that route; at least not without a bivy sack for added weather protection. They are small and confining (much more then my small tarp). And since its your rain gear, you will get wet setting up/taking down and going out to take care of business.
Thanks Blackwolf !
This is (obviously) a full-size tarp - but this is AWESOME. Never seen this set-up but it is perfect ! Makes a really great shelte with a "built in" ground cloth.
I REALLY like it !
Thank you to the creator of the video.
Thanks Blackwolf !
This is (obviously) a full-size tarp - but this is AWESOME. Never seen this set-up but it is perfect ! Makes a really great shelte with a "built in" ground cloth.
I REALLY like it !
Thank you to the creator of the video.
Nice, but what would you do with high winds and a good hard rain?
I've pitched my tent with the wind/rain blowing towards the back of my tent only to have the wind change direction as the night progressed - that could be an issue with a fully opened end.
If you're new to tarp camping, start with an 8x10 foot tarp then experiment with smaller models (if you think you can make it work). I've used a poncho/tarp for overnighters where a sprinkle or two was all that was expected and fared ok. Getting under a tarp that small in a pouring rain without soaking your sleeping bag would be a miracle if not an impossibility. You would have to put your sleeping bag in a waterproof sack, push it to the foot of your poncho shelter, get your wet clothing off, dry off the groundsheet that you just shook your raingear on, pull your bag out of its wp sack, and get into it (all with about 20 inches of headroom).
You will need a water repellant bivy to make it remotely possible in the rainy Appalachians, and it still won't be easy.
Black Wolf
12-24-2010, 18:23
Nice, but what would you do with high winds and a good hard rain?
I've pitched my tent with the wind/rain blowing towards the back of my tent only to have the wind change direction as the night progressed - that could be an issue with a fully opened end.
You pitch it differently my brother...it's square or a rectangle...many possible ways to "pitch" it...
Maybe QiWiz (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?u=12511) will see this and respond. He often uses a Six Moon Designs Gatewood Cape poncho/tarp.
Hey couscous, hope to have you join me for a few miles this April . . . :D
Yes, am a big fan of the Gatewood; it's been my go-to shelter year-round for more than 2 years; I have approximately 25-30 nights in mine at this point. I'll be using it this coming April 9 when I head NOBO to Hot Springs from Springer. Gatewood weighs only 11 oz; add 1.2 oz for stakes and 1.6 oz for polychro groundsheet; if buggy replacing the polychro with a Serenity NetTent inside the Gatewood or inside an AT shelter adds only 6.4 oz. Gatewood is also a poncho, but I'm concerned enough about nasty weather that I'll be packing a rainsuit so that I can hike in very windy cold rain/sleet/snow conditions.
Hey couscous, hope to have you join me for a few miles this April . . . :D
Yes, am a big fan of the Gatewood; it's been my go-to shelter year-round for more than 2 years; I have approximately 25-30 nights in mine at this point. I'll be using it this coming April 9 when I head NOBO to Hot Springs from Springer. Gatewood weighs only 11 oz; add 1.2 oz for stakes and 1.6 oz for polychro groundsheet; if buggy replacing the polychro with a Serenity NetTent inside the Gatewood or inside an AT shelter adds only 6.4 oz. Gatewood is also a poncho, but I'm concerned enough about nasty weather that I'll be packing a rainsuit so that I can hike in very windy cold rain/sleet/snow conditions.
I'd be a little paranoid about wearing my shelter. Rip it or tear it and you've just messed up your protection.
My sleep shelter set-up is like Miners 90 % of the time. IMO, I would not start out with a poncho tarp. I think it a niche piece of gear that is too much too fast for where, I think, you currently are in backpacking. I would try a nylon/silny tarp possibly something sized around 7 X 9. It will save wt compared to your current shelter, provide adequate coverage on the AT where it can rain hard for days and you have available many flat areas and trees to pitch your tarp, and not require a huge investment up front. Since you are using a down bag with, I assume, a non WP top fabric shell the slightly larger area of a slightly larger tarp would be an advanatge in your position to protecting your sleeping bag from wetness. If you like tarping and you want to shave off some more ozs going that route wait to buy a more expensive tarp until you understand what's available and how using a tarp works with your hikes. Smaller and lighter tarps can work extremely well with down sleeping bags and UL highly breathable WR bivys. Decent first time silny tarps can be purchased for less than $30 around the size mentioned. The AT is a good place to try tarping for the first time because you can get lots of rain, bugs, at times, and you have shelters to retreat to if the tarping scene is not working for you. That can be argued with poncho tarps though too! Do understand though, if you were to abandon a tarp as shelter during a hike and you are new to tarping, there is a learning curve on proper tarping techniques and acclimitization to sleeping under a tarp!
WILLIAM HAYES
12-29-2010, 01:16
i use to use a tarp years ago when i did i always carried a liteweight bivy to help keep my bag dry
a large garbage bag to put over your feet part of your sleepign bag should leave you good to go... you may have some condensation issues in the footbox area though. i've never tried it, but it sounds good in theory.