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tawa
12-20-2010, 15:33
Interested in those that have used Crampons on thru hikes NOBO on the AT. Looked on e-bay and they are all over the board in types,costs etc.
Which ones did u use and what would u recommend for this newbie concerning using crampons.
As always--thanks for your help.

swjohnsey
12-20-2010, 15:46
And pitons!

Flippy
12-20-2010, 15:56
You will be fine without them. Only one spot in the Smokies did I have somewhat of a problem. I had my rainpants on, sat down so I didn't fall and scooted down from tree to tree.

If you must have them I used the Katoola KTS Aluminum ~19 oz. ones on the PCT and CDT. Very comfortable. Many of my fellow hikers had bad experiences with insteps. They seem to slide, and them you may slip and gouge yourself with them.

Another alternative is YakTraks (~4.5 ozs), which are pretty much disposable. Picked up a pair on the PCT in Oregon after reading a sign about treachous condition and I had already sent my crampons and ice axe back home. Ended up not needing them, as we arrived shortly after noon and the snow was soft enough.

chelko
12-20-2010, 16:47
The only place i would imagine you may need them is in the smokies. That is if you are going NOBO with a start in Feb or March. I use the four point instep style in the smokies a lot since the trail tends to get compacted from heavy travel and then freezes overnight. I haven't had any problems with them at all. They are quick to put on and take off and they fit in a small stuff sack you can store in a pocket on your pack. I have seen them recently priced from $29.95 to $37.95 for the same pair. Just need to do a little on-line shopping.

canoehead
12-20-2010, 16:55
I use these up here if it's not to bad. these work good and hold their position on the boot.
http://www.kahtoola.com/microspikes.php

ATsawyer
12-20-2010, 17:01
I have used YakTrax, Kahtoola crampons, and Kahtoola Microspikes, and find the Microspikes to be best for long hikes. YakTrax have a flawed construction which uses a rubber band-like suspension under foot within steel coils. The coils compress and quickly wear out the rubber bands.

The crampons will make your feet ache by the ten mile mark. The Microspikes are full steel construction underfoot with a stout rubber suspension above the welt that keeps them on your boots. They are very comfortable to walk in and (in my opinion) worth the price.

I've jumped from one icy stream crossing boulder to another and landed hard on bare granite without bending or crushing either the spikes or the chains.

Best of all, they don't weigh much and take up little space in your pack:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9713&stc=1&d=1292878485

Flippy
12-20-2010, 17:13
I have used YakTrax, Kahtoola crampons, and Kahtoola Microspikes, and find the Microspikes to be best for long hikes. YakTrax have a flawed construction which uses a rubber band-like suspension under foot within steel coils. The coils compress and quickly wear out the rubber bands.

The crampons will make your feet ache by the ten mile mark. The Microspikes are full steel construction underfoot with a stout rubber suspension above the welt that keeps them on your boots. They are very comfortable to walk in and (in my opinion) worth the price.

I've jumped from one icy stream crossing boulder to another and landed hard on bare granite without bending or crushing either the spikes or the chains.

Best of all, they don't weigh much and take up little space in your pack:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9713&stc=1&d=1292878485


I was looking at replacing my 19 oz. Kahtoola crampons with the Kahtoola Microspikes. How long did you hike with them? If you don't mind, how much do you weigh with pack? Any other experiences/suggestions about them?

Only reason I picked up and suggested the Yaktraks was for a very short distance. Besides being disposable, I picked them up for $20 and they weigh only ~4.5 oz.

Razor
12-20-2010, 17:36
I have just purchased the Kahtoola microspikes and wanted to get ideas for what is best to carry them in? The spikes will tear a nylon sack What is strong enough to keep them from punching your pack or contents.

Flippy
12-20-2010, 18:33
I have just purchased the Kahtoola microspikes and wanted to get ideas for what is best to carry them in? The spikes will tear a nylon sack What is strong enough to keep them from punching your pack or contents.

I carried a Z-rest strapped to the back of my pack, and would strap my Kahtoola Crampons facing away on my Z-Rest. God help anyone behind who tripped and did a superman into the back of my pack. I supposed the same would work for the Kahtoola microspikes.

ATsawyer
12-20-2010, 18:59
I made a little pouch from an old fire hose sleeve. Probably overkill, but it's what I use to sheath my crosscut saws and just about indestructible. I don't have a distance log on them but have hiked full days without taking them off. Most of my hiking is trail maintenence-related, so I'm carrying tools and thankful of the good footing the spikes provide.

Even a few inches of snow can get slippery on a decent grade. The spikes dig in without the trippiness of a crampon and way outbite the YakTrax.

DuctTape
12-20-2010, 20:29
Go on Amazon and look up "slide stopper cleats." These work great for me through the winter at Grand Canyon.

waywardfool
12-20-2010, 21:11
I use the four point instep style [...] I have seen them recently priced from $29.95 to $37.95 for the same pair. Just need to do a little on-line shopping.

I have a pair of 4-point insteps, have had for 15 or so years. My only cost was a couple of fastex buckles. A friend, who works in industrial maintenance, popped out several sets at the shop at work from stainless steel. Not too hard to make at all, if you have the setup, I'm sure most anybody knows somebody that works in an industrial shop. One piece of SS, bend down the 4 corners, cut a couple of slots for the straps. Done.

Tinker
12-21-2010, 00:18
I went on a winter hike with a couple of guys last year. One had Yaktracks, one had some strap on soles with spikes, and I had regular crampons. I had the best traction, the guy with the strap on soles had the next, and the guy with the Yaktracks looked as if he was on a skating rink.
We had to bail a day early due to the poor performance of the Yaktracks.
Another friend bought the Kahtoola Microspikes and they seem to work much better than Yaktracks.

James GAME2009
12-21-2010, 01:24
Keep in mind that the crampons you would buy in a mountaineering store require crampon compatable boots. I personally believe that crampons would be overkill on the AT, unless you're planning to go through Southern Maine and the Whites in the winter.

tuswm
12-21-2010, 03:45
I use these
$12
3 oz
http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/essentials/icecleat.asp

Ironbelly
12-21-2010, 08:42
+1 for Kahtoola Microspikes. Best birthday present ever. Most of the time these are all I ever need, full crampons are not needed by the average backpacker. Full crampons are really only needed in really extreme conditions. I have not found a single instance where my microspikes would not suffice. I also have my msr denali snowshoes that i could throw on if i needed a "bigger bite"

To give the op some more information. I am 26, weigh 210 and typically carry a 43lbs pack in winter. I can do about 12 miles in my microspikes before my feet start to get a little sore. I have never slipped and fell while wearing my microspikes. I typically hike with my siberian husky on leash and the microspikes are a godsend for maintaining traction with juno a'pullin.

I usually keep them clipped onto a carabineer on the outside of my pack, or in the side water bottle holder on my pack. I havn't had any issues with the spikes damaging anything. Unless your just plain careless in storing them i don't think you will have any problems.

peakbagger
12-21-2010, 09:06
Kahtoola microspikes Or Hillsound trail crampons http://hillsound.com/02product/trampon.php would be hard to beat. They are just about standard gear for winter hiking in the whites. Many folks switched from Yak Tracks to Kahtoolas very quickly as the Yak Traks just dont stay on. Standard crampons are overkill and as noted, they will trash your feet fairily quickly, plus they tend to slow down your gait. There is also alwyas the possiblity of tripping and crampons spikes in the shin are painfull.

The Kahtoolas are the tried and true but the Hillsounds look superior. I dont know anyone who has them but they have been around for at least one winter so it may be worth moving up

Two Tents
12-21-2010, 10:00
I have the Hillsound trail crampons. They come with a sack to carry them in. I like the strap that goes across the top for more security. The heel has four spikes which I also like over the Kahtoolas. They stay put after you get them positioned. I believe the spikes are longer than the Kahtootas. The price is about the same. Get whatcha want-just sayin.

Elder
12-21-2010, 10:41
www.icetrekkers.com (http://www.icetrekkers.com) The Diamonds for ice and mixed terrain.
The best for walking/running normal stride with terrific grip on rock,ice, or snow.
Durable and secure. Snowchains for your feet!

Yes, I am the rep.

mudhead
12-21-2010, 16:45
The Kahtoolas are the tried and true but the Hillsounds look superior. I dont know anyone who has them but they have been around for at least one winter so it may be worth moving up

If you ever see a pair of those please pm me or post about it. The Hillsound have a different spike pattern and a moving part. If I saw some in use, I'd try and finagle a test drive swap.:)

Tinker
12-21-2010, 23:33
Keep in mind that the crampons you would buy in a mountaineering store require crampon compatable boots. I personally believe that crampons would be overkill on the AT, unless you're planning to go through Southern Maine and the Whites in the winter.
Not necessarily. Mine strap on as do the Kahtoola crampons. I used mine last winter over my trail runners with Sealskinz socks and they worked fine even though they didn't tighten up quite enough (not enough holes in the straps).

Just don't get step in crampons. Get strap on crampons and you'll be fine.
They might be overkill (too heavy to justify carrying), but you can just about walk up walls with real crampons.
Note: The ultralight aluminum crampon points don't stay sharp as long as the steel points, but you won't be wearing them enough on the AT in a normal March - whenever thruhike to wear the points down enough to affect their grip. I didn't see any snow on the ground in March 2006 in Georgia (I just did the Ga. section). Many hikers (even those starting in early April) have encountered snow in the Smokies, and most made it through without specialized traction devices.

innermountain
12-22-2010, 00:07
Yak Trax - they're fantastic and affodable

Tinker
12-22-2010, 06:17
Yak Trax - they're fantastic and affodable

Fantastic until the going gets steep and glare-icy.
Yes, they are affordable.
Sasquatch 2014 had to walk in the blueberry bushes to avoid sliding down the mountain when he was using his Yak Trax last year. The trail had too much ice.
They are certainly up to the task of getting you where you need to go on flat icy surfaces, though.

StormBird
12-22-2010, 22:18
depending on when you starting, you probably will not need them.

If you are very set on making this purchase, get yaktraks or microspikes. Full on crampons are over kill unless you are climbing a glaciated volcano (which there are none on the AT ;))

kayak karl
12-22-2010, 22:57
http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/46340/2534650170104593866S425x425Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/4592/2273737840104593866S425x425Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/3746/2925613670104593866S425x425Q85.jpg

waywardfool is right. simple to made. a friend is working off these pic's with titanium for me.

Wil
12-23-2010, 00:00
www.icetrekkers.com (http://www.icetrekkers.com) The Diamonds for ice and mixed terrain.
The best for walking/running normal stride with terrific grip on rock,ice, or snow.
Durable and secure. Snowchains for your feet!

Yes, I am the rep.Campmor has what appears to be a low-end version, same company (Kako) for $19.97. Don't seem to have as aggressive a bite element as the Diamonds.

Offer a coupon code discount here for the Diamonds and I'd give them a try. I have and love microspikes but I need to buy a larger size for some new overboots and I'd give the Diamonds a try at a good price!

BTW I just finished what I _thought_ was going to be a fairly easy pre-Winter trip with your Ice Trekker Spikes (the pull-on rubber soles with embedded carbide tips, around $19.99). Turned out to be full Winter conditions with lots of glare ice and shallow snow over ice, and these worked surprisingly well. Superb, in fact, on flat, uphill, and moderate downhill. Steep downhill was pretty good, a little scary and required some care: they tended to slip and need adjusting and I lost a couple of tips over a three day trip. But overall it was a very satisfactory experience!

Elder
12-23-2010, 00:24
Hi Wil
Yes, the Chains and spikes have both been around a while. The chains are good for snow, not so much on ice or rock.
The Spikes are good on ice, UPS, and Postal use them alot as they go in and out of trucks fine...wood floors, no.
The Diamond Grips are newest (2nd year) but have great all terrain grip, not vertical ice of course, but trail ice/snow rock, Yes.
Sorry, I have no input on coupon codes.
Glad the spikes worked, they are good in many conditions.

Driver8
12-24-2010, 01:51
OK, so I'm gonna go for the Kahtoola Microspikes. At REI they're $60 + tax, same at EMS.com. Any good place to get a better deal? Or should I use my REI gift card partly on this purchase? Whattaya think?

mweinstone
12-24-2010, 02:20
black diamond has changed the face of crampons. to buy any other is foolery. the appalchian trail is made more dangerouse when traversed in crampons of any type. this is fact my friend. even carrying them on such a journey is fools play. climbing is dangerous. hiking nobo in the iceyest winter without crampons is less dangerous. the proper use of crampons cannot be learned outside of a handfull of professional settings.mixed climbing, the closest thing to what you propose, is a mix of so much ice and snow, and so much rock to be traversed. our trails conditions lay outside the scope of the proper mix. you just dont stroll around on the AT with crampons on even in the dead of ice and snow without the clear need to remove them most often ,pack them safely, and put them back on soon again. and again and again. theirs a rhythem to moveing thru such environs, and what you propose aint it. your looking at an exausting waste of effort combined with the real dangers of lack of exsperience leading to injury .

mweinstone
12-24-2010, 02:45
none of you walk for days on end or over 10 miles each day. thats what cant be done with your toy crampons. cause there a joke. and very bad for walking. real crampons are for climbing. not hiking. toy crampons like all the ones this thread speaks to, are simply hard on feet,high in failures, uneeded and a scam. you could never get far in them. not hundreds of miles. never. also, crampons all require point protectors. not bags. not swinging on a pack. they must be handeled like loaded guns. they are sharp. and they hurt. i seriously want you to learn more . ask people who are familiar with the proper use of crampons and see what they say about toy points for any type of use at all. some of you feel safe with the traction. and dont overuse them to the point of foot soreness. and you may go places you could not without them. but in the end, what your doing is seriously underestimateing the ability of the further places to eat you up and spit you out. first of all, your going places you couldent without them but their cheap and untrusty. second your not a climber climbing in a crampon. your a hiker with a peice of ill designed poorly conceived toy that can get you hurt and has no tip protectors and isnt being used or carryied safely or with any pourpose.

mweinstone
12-24-2010, 02:56
finnaly, useing them keeps you from practicing the proper mountaineering tecniques used universaly to safely traverse mountains. things like , going a different way. waiting till late morning temps soften snowcrust and make hiking safe. wearing heavyer boots with more bite . learning how to walk in a more balanced position on ice and paying attention at a different level requireing not listening to music or carrying on conversation while navigating more difficult sections. being constantly aware of boot fit and foot streanth remaining before rest is needed. carrying a walking stick for a third leg of support. useing the 3 point anchor system witch is to never move one hand or foot grip before three others are secure when useing hands and feet to pass a difficulty. and slowing down to the speed the conditions allow, not speeding up to the limits of ones equiptment. these are the ways of the hiker and the mountaineer. sorry, saftey is my peeve.

rant ends

Lone Wolf
12-24-2010, 03:02
the joy of walking is interupted with trekking poles. sherpas (real backpackers) don't use sticks

mudhead
12-24-2010, 07:15
OK, so I'm gonna go for the Kahtoola Microspikes. At REI they're $60 + tax, same at EMS.com. Any good place to get a better deal? Or should I use my REI gift card partly on this purchase? Whattaya think?

KTP $49.95 shipped. At least the other day...

They also had Hillsounds.

Driver8
12-24-2010, 08:47
finnaly, useing them keeps you from practicing the proper mountaineering tecniques used ...

OK, Matt, I'll bite. How do strap-on crampons like Kahtoolas make the trail unsafe? I hiked recently with a friend who used them and they seemed to work pretty well. Do you have stories of their use - or misuse - resulting in injury? Thanks for expressing your concerns - I'm new to this, so it's very helpful to me to hear different opinions on things, especially when it comes to equipment.

Driver8
12-24-2010, 08:48
KTP $49.95 shipped. At least the other day...

They also had Hillsounds.

Thank you, mudhead!

mweinstone
12-24-2010, 10:21
feet are injured with every use of them. any crampon used on such a trail in such conditions will result in foot fatige. and that leads to falls.the only flat walking that can be done with any crampons is on icepack. the accumulated flats on a days hike on our trail combined with the amount of soft snow and rock,excludes crampons proper safe use. a walking stick is the proper aid in these conditions.

ATsawyer
12-24-2010, 10:29
Microspikes on right, aluminum crampons on left, Tuatahi on foot. Nicholson Hollow Trail SNP under foot.

Nothing unsafe about using traction devices on cupped, frozen, trails. Blowing snow had hidden icy sections of this trail elsewhere.

There is no safe way to traverse an ice-covered, rounded boulder stream crossing on normal footwear (not counting wading, but who wants to do that if they don't HAVE to). I jumped from wet, slippery, icy boulder to icy boulder on several crossing this day and landed solidly on the microspikes each time. Never the slightest loss of purchase on those rocks, and no damage to the Kahtoolas:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9748&stc=1&d=1293200685

mweinstone
12-24-2010, 10:37
black diamond carbon solo is the lightest single pole sold as a single third leg and the best . 79 bucks.the narrow path of the AT rules out useing sharp tools such as crampons and ice axes. theirs just too many obsticals to navigate. you dont use such tools in so cramped a space. if the conditions were total ice for a long period , only real crampons of the right type would give you any help. and those conditions dont exist here. in any event putting crampons on anything but the stiffest boots is a mistake. and most modern crampons go on regular boots without special rands to hold them.

mweinstone
12-24-2010, 10:43
i kow they feel good. im saying they cant be hiked in long distance without concern of injury at least from fatige by virtue of beeing used on too many flats and non ice trails. crampons are just less safe than not on the AT. you cant change my mind.

10-K
12-24-2010, 10:55
i kow they feel good. im saying they cant be hiked in long distance without concern of injury at least from fatige by virtue of beeing used on too many flats and non ice trails. crampons are just less safe than not on the AT. you cant change my mind.

I didn't think microspikes were "proper" crampons... That is, they're really 2 different things - crampons being much more serious/heavy duty.

George
12-24-2010, 11:03
I carried light aluminum strap on full crampons (do not remember make) in the smokies put them on 2-3 times for no more than 300 yards. This was in areas that a notch had been blasted out of the rock slope to form the trail, snow had compacted and frozen hard to fill in the trail leaving only sloped ice. I use light runners year round so no kicking steps. I did not like to carry the 18 oz but would do it again. To transport I just put the spikes together, no problem poking anything as the alum is not as sharp as steel

ATsawyer
12-24-2010, 11:16
The microspikes go on and off easily as conditions require and are lightweight. They are much more comfortable on a long hike than the "walking crampons".

Driver8
12-24-2010, 18:54
i kow they feel good. im saying they cant be hiked in long distance without concern of injury at least from fatige by virtue of beeing used on too many flats and non ice trails. crampons are just less safe than not on the AT. you cant change my mind.

Sounds like something reasonable ppl can disagree on, Matt. Thanks for sharing your take on it. I did go ahead and buy the Kathlooas today at the local Recreational Equipment, Inc., plus the first aid kid I should've bought some time ago. (Not that I don't habitually stock a few first aid items - I do - but better to have a full kit.)

Toolshed
12-24-2010, 23:30
Mattie's got it right.
If you wear instep crampons or regular 10 or 12 point crampons. It's not just foot fatigue, but the lack of a slight bit of slide before you gain purchase that jars your knees, hips, and for some, lower back.
Normally your foot slides a very little bit with every step.. With Crampons it doesn't - over time this can build up and aggravate your joints. In fact, I find myself just slapping my foot down with every step over time and by the end of a climbing trip with a longer appraoch, my joints are sore.

I also find that instep crampons just plain hurt when walking more than a few miles. Especially when snow balls up under foot. Pam just doesn't work, nor does WD40, for more than a handful of steps. If anything, I'd rather wear my grivel G10's.

I do find after walking 5 or more miles and then taking them off, Ineed to concentrating on stepping again, rather than just slapping my foot down and expecting traction.

Driver8
12-25-2010, 00:05
Mattie's got it right.
If you wear instep crampons or regular 10 or 12 point crampons. It's not just foot fatigue, but the lack of a slight bit of slide before you gain purchase that jars your knees, hips, and for some, lower back.
Normally your foot slides a very little bit with every step.. With Crampons it doesn't - over time this can build up and aggravate your joints. In fact, I find myself just slapping my foot down with every step over time and by the end of a climbing trip with a longer appraoch, my joints are sore.

Very interesting. I think I'm going to try and limit mine to rockier trail in the winter, where slips and falls are more perilous. I appreciate your and Matty's words of concern. I think to an extent it might be a HYOH thing, but I can see the problems you and he pose. I do like the idea, though, of tackling at least moderately tough territory in the winter, and I've seen the Microspikes used to good effect, so I see them as a useful tool if judiciously applied. Hope I'm not proven grossly wrong! :)

Elder
12-25-2010, 00:14
the joy of walking is interupted with trekking poles. sherpas (real backpackers) don't use sticks
Oh Yes they do..primarily Leki's.
Historically they used two sticks...

tawa
12-25-2010, 09:11
Ended up going with the microspikes. They are being shipped as I type and look at the window and three inches of overnight snow on Christmas morning. Notification says they will be here on Tuesday so cant wait to give them a try on snow around here on local trail.
I really appreciate all the advice, suggestions and thoughts on this topic.
Thank you and Merry Christmas.