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Blissful
12-22-2010, 15:12
OK, the Sierras are really getting dumped on right now and I am getting really worried about conditions for an early July start of the trail (the only time we can do it) . Someone on a forum talked about 10 ft snowdrifts back in the 80's on July 4 in Yosemite. We have to get reservations going mid Jan. And I only plan to wear trail runners (I can't do boots).

Helmuth.Fishmonger
12-22-2010, 21:40
OK, the Sierras are really getting dumped on right now and I am getting really worried about conditions for an early July start of the trail (the only time we can do it) . Someone on a forum talked about 10 ft snowdrifts back in the 80's on July 4 in Yosemite. We have to get reservations going mid Jan. And I only plan to wear trail runners (I can't do boots).

worry about it around April. Yes, tons and tons of snow now, but still a good chance for a dry winter after that. It was 58 degrees on Bishop Pass on Dec 12, so even if it snows now, it can also melt away well before July. The current snow has nothing to do with overall patterns and may be the only really big snow fall for the year for a La Nina year (dry).

There is currently about 2/3rd the water content on the ground that was there last year on April 1, however, for the date, we are on record levels.

And even if there's a lot of snow in early July, it's just a little more water in the creeks to worry about - the snow itself is actually a ton of fun. If these 12-year-olds can do it, you can...

http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/outdoor/gallery/JMT2010/best_of/slides/DSC_2016.jpg

http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/outdoor/gallery/JMT2010/best_of/slides/DSC_2473.jpg

http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/outdoor/gallery/JMT2010/best_of/slides/DSC_2469.jpg

http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/outdoor/gallery/JMT2010/best_of/slides/DSC_1359.jpg

bring the right footwear and enjoy it - it is supposed to be an adventure, right?

leaftye
12-22-2010, 22:32
My ankles hurt just looking at those pictures. They are good pictures though.

tuswm
12-23-2010, 00:34
I was thinking about this today. I was supposed to go to cali in a few days for some backpacking. I have a month before school starts again. now i dont know what to do.

Dogwood
12-23-2010, 00:59
Blissful, every yr may be a bit different but you may want to consider PCTers enter the unofficial beginning of the Sierras, going NOBO, at Kennedy Meadows aorund mid June and get through.

Keep abreast on snow levels/pack and how fast its melting, which will effect fords, at Postholer.com.

jwalden
12-23-2010, 03:38
Helmuth, where on the JMT were those pictures taken? They don't look particularly familiar to me. But that's not surprising since I hiked it this September, walked over no snow (did see a few patches, tho, really roughed it!), and "endured" an hour of flurries one day and no other weather of note.

I'm not the sort to repeat trails -- too many to do! -- but it's increasingly clear to me that the JMT is a completely different trail early in the season (also south to north), so I may just have to (once, or twice?), which would be such a shame. But would it really be a repeat? Such difficult questions to ponder. :)

nawlunz
12-23-2010, 11:32
worry about it around April. Yes, tons and tons of snow now, but still a good chance for a dry winter after that. It was 58 degrees on Bishop Pass on Dec 12, so even if it snows now, it can also melt away well before July. The current snow has nothing to do with overall patterns and may be the only really big snow fall for the year for a La Nina year (dry).

There is currently about 2/3rd the water content on the ground that was there last year on April 1, however, for the date, we are on record levels.

And even if there's a lot of snow in early July, it's just a little more water in the creeks to worry about - the snow itself is actually a ton of fun. If these 12-year-olds can do it, you can...

http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/outdoor/gallery/JMT2010/best_of/slides/DSC_2016.jpg

http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/outdoor/gallery/JMT2010/best_of/slides/DSC_2473.jpg

http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/outdoor/gallery/JMT2010/best_of/slides/DSC_2469.jpg

http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/outdoor/gallery/JMT2010/best_of/slides/DSC_1359.jpg

bring the right footwear and enjoy it - it is supposed to be an adventure, right?


taken....and what passes? Seems a lot of snow for summer..BEAUTIFUL!

nawlunz
12-23-2010, 11:34
Helmuth, where on the JMT were those pictures taken? They don't look particularly familiar to me. But that's not surprising since I hiked it this September, walked over no snow (did see a few patches, tho, really roughed it!), and "endured" an hour of flurries one day and no other weather of note.

I'm not the sort to repeat trails -- too many to do! -- but it's increasingly clear to me that the JMT is a completely different trail early in the season (also south to north), so I may just have to (once, or twice?), which would be such a shame. But would it really be a repeat? Such difficult questions to ponder. :)


I posted...I had the same question.

garlic08
12-23-2010, 12:35
My ankles hurt just looking at those pictures. They are good pictures though.

Ditto this. Memories of suncups.

Ditto also don't worry about the snow until next Spring. A fast melt will completely change the picture in a matter of days.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
12-23-2010, 14:01
Helmuth, where on the JMT were those pictures taken? They don't look particularly familiar to me. But that's not surprising since I hiked it this September, walked over no snow

first one going down from Muir Pass (southbound, just off the pass) The icy bottom is the bowl below the pass that stretches west from Black Giant

second and third image are on Forester Pass (around July 25!), just off trail, because when there is snow, the trail does not follow the official route, but hugs the ridge as high as you want to to before you traverse to the pass.

last image is Silver Pass looking south at the top.

pyroman53
12-23-2010, 14:41
bring the right footwear

So what do you mean by this? What, in your opinion is the right footware for these conditions, and why?

leaftye
12-23-2010, 15:14
I don't know about the perfect footwear, but I just found out about the Inov-8 Oroc 350. Wide toebox and spikes for icy terrain. If only I could get someone else to carry a second set of shoes for me.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
12-23-2010, 15:50
So what do you mean by this? What, in your opinion is the right footware for these conditions, and why?

something that keeps you dry (and warm...). So if you are a trail runner fan, you need waterproof trail runners, and really good gaiters to keep the snow out of the top. You can't do that, you should not go in that season.

We used much heavier footwear (La Sportiva Trango GTX), but that's just preference. I wear these boots anywhere, 3-seasons. We also didn't have to take them off crossing most streams, because good boots with well fitting gaiters will go through water pretty well. It's the deeper crossings and many really muddy and wet trail sections that are a much bigger problem in early season than the snow.

here's a typical trail section below the snow line on July 22, below Helen Lake. Didn't even slow us down:

http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/outdoor/gallery/JMT2010/best_of/slides/DSC_2049.jpg


Snow cups are not a big deal because the trail gets broken in early spring by the PCT crowd and when you get there it will be pretty smooth. Frozen hard in the morning, darn soft and very wet in the afternoon, and that's the part of the day you want to avoid if you can.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
12-23-2010, 16:01
I don't know about the perfect footwear, but I just found out about the Inov-8 Oroc 350. Wide toebox and spikes for icy terrain. If only I could get someone else to carry a second set of shoes for me.


slipping on ice isn't really a problem in July unless you hit a really high and shady part of frozen trail early in the day. The only difficult terrain I recall from this trip are deep water crossings, and we had a few that were radically deeper than in a normal July - places where I never had encountered more than a few inches of water were waist deep and raging.

here's some folks crossing the second stream you cross coming down from Silver Pass southbound - the first one was similar (the big waterfall thing), and this once, a quick hop from rock to rock usually in July. this is July 17, 2010, and even our boots and gaiters had to come off

http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/outdoor/gallery/JMT2010/20100717/slides/DSC_1402.jpg

Another place that was very similar to thos one was White Fork, a usually small and easly overlooked side stream coming down from the north just above Woods Creek at 2800 meters on the 25k topo map. You cross it when you're coming down from Pinchot about 45 mins before you reach the hanging bridge. In September, there's almost no water there, but last year that crossing was so violent I had to walk my kids over one at a time, without packs, and then do it a few more times to get all the packs across.

sbhikes
12-23-2010, 16:34
Helmuth is a bit old-school on footwear. He warned me I'd never make it hiking the JMT in sandals. My feet were never happier. (Sandals are not good in snow, however, so I wouldn't recommend them in early season. Snow gets stuck under your toes.)

I don't think you need waterproofness or gaiters. PCT hikers generally eschew goretext shoes and waterproof stuff when they come through. They have acceptance that feet will be wet all day. It's really not a big deal.

Microspikes can add traction for ice, but don't work too well on snow. Instep crampons help in snow, but are hard to walk over rocks with. I think either one is worth bringing, but neither are absolutely crucial.

Many hikers bring an ice axe. I believe it's probably not useful unless you know how to use it. Trekking poles will help with stability. There's also something called a whippet that looks useful.

In July you should have other people's foot prints to help you find the way and to help you place your feet.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
12-23-2010, 17:03
Helmuth is a bit old-school on footwear.

:D Never had a blister... never twisted an ankle. Why change a good thing? I am currently walking in boots less than half the weight I used in my early years, so that's ultralight for me.

Am about to buy some "ultralight" AT ski boots - 3 pounds a piece... yikes, but I guess when you want to move through the backcountry on ski, they haven't really come up with the 7 ounce ultralight shoes for that yet.




I don't think you need waterproofness or gaiters. PCT hikers generally eschew goretext shoes and waterproof stuff when they come through. They have acceptance that feet will be wet all day. It's really not a big deal.


just put all that foot treatment tape and benzoine tincture in your weight budget. Pain comes free. Weather permitting, you can usually dry out, but weather doesn't always cooperate. we had 3 days and 2 nights of rain last July, and not just the small storms that stop and move away.

If you know that you don't get blisters hiking in totally wet shoes with the water softening up your skin, no worries. You're basically gambling that you will dry out completely, but we are talking early season after a potentially very wet winter. I would be worried to keep my heavier gore-tex boots dry if it got worse than what we had in 2010.



Many hikers bring an ice axe. I believe it's probably not useful unless you know how to use it. Trekking poles will help with stability. There's also something called a whippet that looks useful.



the ice axe will look cool strapped to your pack in July, unless it's a huge snow year and you need to do a few tricky traverses (Forester Pass south of summit is such a place, but even last summer it was snow free in late July). They are great for self-arrest (if you have practiced that) on a large snow slope. Perhaps north of Mather it would be good to have that - there are a few short passages where a slip could end very ugly at the bottom of a 45 degree snow slope.

hiking poles help a lot, especially if you bring snow cups for them, because once the snow gets soft, they have absolutely no support without the snow cups and your pole will go in 3 feet as you try to keep your balance. Been there done that. We had snow cups this summer and even with them, I once went straight through the snow, one leg and both poles, only one foot stayed above, body twisted from the pack pulling me around down the hillside, while the leg below the snow got into rocks and twisted, ouch. Could have been much worse, but I had two helpers who pulled me out right away.

The thing you will learn very quickly is that the snow is safest away from any rocks that peak through it. Those absorb heat and then melt the snow from underneath, too. Getting off snow and onto rocks is the most difficult thing, because you never really know how much support you have near the edge...

Helmuth.Fishmonger
12-23-2010, 17:07
and in related news:


quote from http://news.sierrawave.net/ (http://news.sierrawave.net/)"At last word, 166 inches of snow fell in December on Mammoth with 11 to 17 feet of it since last Friday. Skiinfo.com reports Mammoth has the deepest base of snow in the world right now with 260 inches of snow so far this season."

nawlunz
12-23-2010, 18:56
seen posting on WB, but I am also concerned about the snow based on my dates. Based on current data, its early I know, but it's matching one of the wettest winters in some time...see website.

So, I'll am going to pay close attention to this website and to posters on this forum as we get nearer to the date of departure!


http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/snow/PLOT_SWC

ChinMusic
12-23-2010, 19:26
Ditto also don't worry about the snow until next Spring. A fast melt will completely change the picture in a matter of days.
Really? I honestly have no idea. I haven't paid attention to how things unfold out there but it is reported that there was something like 11-17 feet of snow since last Friday.

Wouldn't massive amounts of snow over winter increase the snow in July or is it more dependent on spring temps?

Wouldn't very heavy amounts of snow lead toward bridges out and difficult crossings once she starts to melt?

I was gonna post on this too but blissful beat me to it. I have plans on taking my daughter out there next summer.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
12-23-2010, 20:17
Wouldn't very heavy amounts of snow lead toward bridges out and difficult crossings once she starts to melt?


just look at one of the daily snow depth sensor graphs - if it stops snowing, stuff evaproates off, melts, etc - Dec 12 had a 54 degre day on BISHOP PASS at over 12,000 feet - places like Tuolumne Meadows were in the 60s. These days will happen again, and this year has been forecast to be dry. What I can see in the long term forcast from the guys who know the area (Mammth Dweebs mostly), there's not much more snow on the horizon for a while. Who knows - they may all be wrong with a changing planet. Last year the snow looked normal and below normal and then we got some late May snow - see the last year line in the above graph, which is a good place to track the overall pattern. On a week by week basis, what has fallen this month may not really matter that much by the end of winter. I bet if it stays very dry from here on, you won't see snow fields in July like in the above photos


snow depth graph for Bishop Pass this Month

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/histPlot/DataPlotter.jsp?staid=BSH&sensor_no=18&duration=D&start=12%2F01%2F2010+16%3A11&end=now&geom=Medium

note how it goes down between fresh snows. Now it's really high, but it'll settle due to its own weight. Sun may not have a shot at a really warm day for a while with all that white stuff reflecting heat, but it's california and if there's no clouds it will warm up

Bishop Pass Max temperatures this month graphed

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/histPlot/DataPlotter.jsp?staid=BSH&sensor_no=31&duration=D&start=12%2F01%2F2010+16%3A11&end=now&geom=Medium

Tuolumne Meadows snow depth graphed shows even better how things go down unless there's another dumping

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/histPlot/DataPlotter.jsp?staid=TUM&sensor_no=18&duration=D&start=12%2F01%2F2010+16%3A11&end=now&geom=Medium

July is a long time off (more than half a year). The real melt usuall begins in early May in the higher elevations. We'll have to see what happens

Bridges out? There are only a handful of them anyway, and the most dangerous crossings would be between Muir Ranch and Evolution Valley if those went out, but they have been there for a very long time. Those that got washed out in the 80s by the last super winter have not been replaced for the most part anyway.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
12-23-2010, 20:35
2005-06 was a pretty heavy winter - let me borrow a some some photos from that year as a reference:

http://www.pbase.com/aarondoss/image/72272375

this is north of Muir Pass, just above Lake Mc Dermont on July 10, 2006 - about twice the snow we had last July... and when we met people heading south, our conditions were described as "freakin' Siberia" by some PCT hikers. 2006 was MUCH worse - just look a few pages back from the above link at Mather's south flank
http://www.pbase.com/aarondoss/image/72272357

where we didn't have any snow at all around July 20. 2010

and Forester's north side where my first two images were taken - except we didn't have all that white stuff between the far ridge where our snow was and the pass, where this photographer is standing looking north

http://www.pbase.com/aarondoss/image/72272332

and I've never seen the lake south of Glen frozen...

http://www.pbase.com/aarondoss/image/72272337

Blissful
12-27-2010, 21:56
Thanks for the info. Would Yak Trax then be good to carry? I did good with them on my trail runners in snow on a day hike at Lassen Peak.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
12-28-2010, 00:07
Thanks for the info. Would Yak Trax then be good to carry? I did good with them on my trail runners in snow on a day hike at Lassen Peak.

they'll help you in the morning when the snow is frozen - when the snow gets soggy soft, only real snow shoes really help, but they aren't worth carrying unless you have snow conditions like in those 2006 photos

ChinMusic
12-28-2010, 00:18
Thanks for the info. Would Yak Trax then be good to carry? I did good with them on my trail runners in snow on a day hike at Lassen Peak.
I agree with Yak Trax (pro) being good when things are frozen. They also are helpful in some muddy sections. In soft snow they neither help nor hurt. On dry rock they can be slippery. If the trail goes back and forth from ice to snow to dry to mud to rock etc they work better than nothing, just gotta be careful on sloped rock.

I'd love to find something better as I find them a hassle to take on and off with them occasionally rolling up (or to the side) or falling off.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
01-04-2011, 13:04
from mammoth dweeb's forcast today

"Mammoth Mt is reporting 311 inches of fallen snow for the ski season of 2010/2011! The annual average is 343, so were less then 3 feet away from a normal ski seasons worth of snowfall and its only January 3rd!"

forecast looks low on snow for the next 10 days, though.

nawlunz
01-12-2011, 23:18
Based on what has happened thus far in the Sierras for snowfall, and the fact that I am not interested in serious stream crossings going solo, would you say (based on current pattern of snowfall), that leaving from Happy Isles last week in July for the JMT would be a good bet? I plan to come out at Lone Pine by August 12th or so.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
01-13-2011, 11:47
The later the better. If the snow fall amounts return to what was forecast long term, you definitely will be fine (forecast was for below normal this year based on La Nina which is really kicking butt in Australia, and generally has the opposite effect on the precip in California)

nawlunz
01-23-2011, 12:58
The later the better. If the snow fall amounts return to what was forecast long term, you definitely will be fine (forecast was for below normal this year based on La Nina which is really kicking butt in Australia, and generally has the opposite effect on the precip in California)


plots. Seems like the early "uptick" for water/snow in the mountains, and now a level pattern, returning to "norm". Perhaps you may be righ about the long term forecast. In any case, for me, looks like I will try to get my permit August 1st as that seems to be the best window for me and seems to be a reasonable bet to balance all other factors.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
01-23-2011, 17:37
la nina winters are marked by extreme precip followed by long periods of nothing. Could still get a few more big bumps, could just fizzle away.

ChinMusic
01-23-2011, 18:03
Wanting to take my daughter from Tuolumne to the Valley (Clouds Rest and HD included). Have a wedding I need to go to on 7/30 so I have to hike earlier than I like.

Would 7/18 be decent start for this section? Permit time coming up soon.

Blissful
01-23-2011, 19:50
Wanting to take my daughter from Tuolumne to the Vally (Clouds Rest and HD included). Have a wedding I need to go to on 7/30 so I have to hike earlier than I like.

Would 7/18 be decent start for this section? Permit time coming up soon.


We're going to be there even earlier, beginning of July.

lori
01-23-2011, 20:19
Take bug repellent and headnets just in case... we were nearly eaten on a July Clouds Rest hike. We ranranran to the cars and jumped in, and the ravening hordes were bumping against the windows.... The meadows will have lots of them.

If the snow continues to fall into April as it did last year, it may linger in some places pretty late. By late August we crossed a mere 5 feet of snow on the main trail going over Forester (there were many many use trails up and down from the snowfield, showing how hikers were able to get around it when it obliterated the trail).

June 15 when we were hiking into Paradise Valley for the day, we met a number of backpackers coming out - they were trying to do Rae Lakes loop and met 5 feet of slushy snow at the JMT, and rather than wading through it they turned back. They said the few thrus they encountered were forcing their way into the snow just the same. Which is not any indicator of how it will be this year, really. But the thrus were still going, just slowly.

nawlunz
02-05-2011, 14:22
the pattern of snowfall reaming this winter/spring. Started heavy, now tapering off....now on track to be an average year....


http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/snow/PLOT_SWC



http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/snow/PLOT_SWC

nawlunz
02-05-2011, 14:24
the pattern of snowfall "remaining" this winter/spring. Started heavy, now tapering off....now on track to be an average year....


http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/snow/PLOT_SWC



http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/snow/PLOT_SWC

Helmuth.Fishmonger
02-05-2011, 15:16
The plot is an average of all measurements. First hand info from one of the snow surveyers who actually go out into the backcountry to measure where there are no sensors indicates that lower elevations have lots a lot of snow (7000 feet down from 5 feet to 1one foot) but up high above 10,000, little has changed and many places are still well over 100% of April 1.

also, there seems to be a pattern building that may bring in another round of storms in a few weeks

ChinMusic
02-05-2011, 17:36
I secured my permit, starting on 7/18, for my daughter and me.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
02-15-2011, 18:09
snow is back:

http://mammothweather.com/2011/02/15/1st-major-system-moving-in-after-midnight-with-2-to-3-feet-expected-by-thursday-am-on-mammoth-mountain-next-system-looking-interesting-for-fridaynight/

nawlunz
02-16-2011, 22:23
snow is back:

http://mammothweather.com/2011/02/15/1st-major-system-moving-in-after-midnight-with-2-to-3-feet-expected-by-thursday-am-on-mammoth-mountain-next-system-looking-interesting-for-fridaynight/


it said you were not receiving PMs now...I had a question to ask you, but would rather send via email if OK with you...

Can I send you my question via PM or email and you can decide if you can or want to answer?

THANKS

Helmuth.Fishmonger
02-17-2011, 00:48
Thanks for the info. Would Yak Trax then be good to carry? I did good with them on my trail runners in snow on a day hike at Lassen Peak.

like I said before - you can't know until late May what kind of winter we are having. Snow now is normal for la Nina winter and 5 feet of powder is nothing in the big picture. takes a few more of these storms to get a real serious snow pack going.

what is serious are the 150mph+ winds on Mammoth Mountain tonight - glad those don't come around in summer

tuswm
02-22-2011, 10:49
My friend works at badger, the ski resort in YNP. He said they just got another 4 feet

Helmuth.Fishmonger
02-22-2011, 13:05
powder - the last storm was very dry, lots of fluff, nothing much to register on the water content graph. We are still around 100% and in a forecasted pattern of few storms with long breaks in between.

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/snow/PLOT_SWC


My guess now is that we may just barely get more snow than last year. Definitely nothing to break any major records.

Blissful
02-22-2011, 21:03
Whew, sounds good to me. Many thanks for all your advice. :)

Helmuth.Fishmonger
03-08-2011, 17:38
Latest news from one of the (lucky dog!!!) snow surveyers. Check out his photos - what a drag it must be to have that job.... :-?



We just returned from a twelve day snow survey of the southern Sierra between Cottonwood Pass and Shepard Pass. Three feet of fresh snow brought the seasonal average for the area (Kern River) to 136% of average for the year and 152% to date. It's interesting to note that our measurements at lower elevation courses had significantly higher % totals than higher sites (up to ~190% of April 1)


If you are interested in photos there are some here https://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=59435&id=100000518514856&l=a495c1dcf8

(https://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=59435&id=100000518514856&l=a495c1dcf8)

Other river basins 0f intrest; Kings 112%, San Joaquin 118%, Merced 114%, Tuolumne 117%



JD
Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
www.johndittli.com (http://www.johndittli.com)


his guess is that right now it looks like a little more than last year, but not extreme, since last year we got a ton of snow late in the season.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
03-19-2011, 09:55
It'll be a good week to watch that snow plot - when it gets updated on Monday, there'll be a big bump up on the third plot (the one that matters for the JMT)

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/snow/PLOT_SWC

Just today and tomorrow, Mammoth Mountain will pick up 4 feet, and they already received a good load over the last few days.

The ski bums are stoked, which translated for hikers means: more snow in July. I was going to head to Yosemite for some backcountry skiing yesterday, but had to postpone it, since for the next few days there will be pretty high avalanche risk. Looks like the weather will remain unsettled at least through Wednesday. This second batch of heavy snow does put the summer snow clearly above normal even if there won't be another system in spring

Blissful
03-24-2011, 10:15
Its getting bad out there and I am getting nervous about my July 7th start and having to posthole my way through (which hubby does not want to do) and the river crossings. Yosemite is closed down for now. ugh. Looking at microspikes. Sure hope there's a good thaw soon

Helmuth.Fishmonger
03-28-2011, 23:56
http://patrol.mammothmountain.com/MMSA-SnowSummary70-Current.htm

already a new record year in Mammoth and a near record March (only 1991 was bigger in March)

However, warm weather is rolling in, and yesterday I saw a mile of snow melt on the trail up to Telescope Peak in just 6 hours - 10-12 inches of snow turned to a few patches of white stuff, and it wasn't even as warm as it will be in the coming days. High country snow will stick around, though, and I think you can be guaranteed snow on all passes if you start July 7. Bring some proven waterproof boots and gaiters, and you'll be fine. July snow isn't postholer stuff - it's usually so compacted that only late in the afternoon, especially near hot rocks (where the snow melts underneath) you need to worry about breaking through the surface.

paula53
04-08-2011, 19:08
I live in Casrson City, Nv. The snowpack for the eastern Sierras near here is 160% of normal. I have confirmations of permits, for TM in Yosemity starting mid July, thru August 5th. I doubt if the snow is going to thaw out to allow safe travel in the backcountry,without crampons & ice axs.
Only once before did the YNP fail to open the High Sierra Camps, for the same reason.

tuswm
04-09-2011, 00:49
how much snow could there possibly be by the end of july? am I goign to need to change my equipment?

Helmuth.Fishmonger
04-09-2011, 23:27
how much snow could there possibly be by the end of july? am I goign to need to change my equipment?

a lot, unless we get a very hot spring without any late snows.

Even in a drought year (45% of normal) we had snow in late July in some high locations. This year is about 175% of normal in JMT country

Hangman
04-11-2011, 11:21
Good Luck with the early July start. I've been watching this high snowfall this year too. I have plane tickets and permits for an Aug 22nd start ... I'm guessing I should be good as far as snow by then.

ChinMusic
04-11-2011, 11:48
I have a permit for Tuolumne to Happy Isle starting 7/18. From the best I can remember there isn't anything over 10K in that section, (I do want to do Clouds Rest again).

Any guesses as to conditions then? I know, I know, spring temps/etc. But a guess.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
04-11-2011, 15:23
I have a permit for Tuolumne to Happy Isle starting 7/18. From the best I can remember there isn't anything over 10K in that section, (I do want to do Clouds Rest again).

Any guesses as to conditions then? I know, I know, spring temps/etc. But a guess.


Cloudy with a cahnce of meatballs

ChinMusic
04-11-2011, 15:48
Cloudy with a cahnce of meatballs
Thanks for the 90-day forecast.

Seriously, when would one know (reasonable prediction) the snow levels on 7/18?

I gotta buy plane tickets.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
04-11-2011, 16:46
Whew, sounds good to me. Many thanks for all your advice. :)


note my post was Feb 22. Since then, the La Nina "dry" winter has moved up to the 4th wettest winter in history. This weekend Mammoth broke the all time snow depth record (not water content, though, which is why it isn't the wettest year on record). See this:

http://mammothweather.com/2011/04/10/sunny-skis-for-the-eastern-sierra-with-a-short-wave-ridge-over-head-its-offical-606-5-inches-for-new-benchmark-and-41-year-snowfall-record-4th-wettest-year-since-1970/


I was in the Sierras for 2 weeks from March 21 through April 3, and what I saw was "more than normal" - however, only at higher elevations, and it was all melting super fast. The fear of the locals is that spring will kick in hot and strong, causing flash flooding of epic proportions.

For the trouble spots on the JMT, that doesn't mean too much, as the above 10,000 foot snow is what we usually are dealing with in July. These snow fields at passes will be large again, and no hot spring will change that, given that in many of the southern Sierra locations we are looking at 175% of normal snow water content. It's just so much stuff up there, that it will take well into August to melt the deeper drifts near the passes.

No matter how the spring goes, water runoff will be deep through July, so bring those crossing shoes.

Dogwood
04-11-2011, 20:57
Helmuth, do you live in Wisconsin or the Sierras?

Blissful
05-16-2011, 16:51
More snow until Wed., another 2 feet

This is looking worse and worse for our July 7th start.

Man

Helmuth.Fishmonger
05-17-2011, 00:29
Helmuth, do you live in Wisconsin or the Sierras?

that is the question...

working on making the Sierra primary residence, but that's going to take a bit. I was going to buy the Whitney Portal Store from Doug, but he's trying to retire before I can get out there (kids, college, yada yada...)

This year alone I'll be out west three times.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
05-20-2011, 10:51
record snow, still 200% of normal in some areas like Bishop Creek drainage. Runoff is 160% of normal right now, because it's cooler than normal, and then there was a foot of fresh snow over the last few days. Doesn't look good for a dry early season. Still 10 feet of snow on the road down to Reds, Tioga Pass not gonna open before late June, maybe even July. Still didn't stop a guy to start the JMT two days ago at Whitney Portal northbound. On foot. Had to be talked into snow shoes by the Portal Store owner...

tuswm
05-23-2011, 12:51
wow nothing is open yet did he take 30 days worth of food with him?

Helmuth.Fishmonger
05-23-2011, 14:15
wow nothing is open yet did he take 30 days worth of food with him?

May not need those resupplies - Doug Sr. from the Portal store posted that he also gave him directions for the Bubbs Creek exit opportunity. Probably going to use it with the way the conditions are, unless he suddenly becomes a snow shoe champ.

Dogwood
05-23-2011, 16:34
WOW! I feel like I've been sitting through a 2 hr pregame show BEFORE the start of the actual game!

wandering_bob
05-23-2011, 18:54
"Tho' I've belted you and flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!"

Rudyard Kipling



No way would I head off into the Sierra right now, with more storms coming.

wandering_bob
05-23-2011, 23:41
Thanks to Steven clark, who posted these on the PCT_List Forum today.:eek:

*The following links will give you an idea about the snow pack in the Sierra and Southern Cascades. All images taken within the last 5 days:*

http://www.whitneyzone.com/wc_notes.htm (http://www.whitneyzone.com/wc_notes.htm) - Mt Whitney

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/tioga.htm (http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/tioga.htm) - Yosemite

tuswm
05-24-2011, 01:48
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/229433_2099695737908_1410850286_2524762_2665974_n. jpg

A friend at work.......

taken from friends FB

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/205667_200145410018324_100000685989576_599718_7983 864_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/205667_200145413351657_100000685989576_599719_1839 158_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/196728_200158486683683_100000685989576_599759_8588 52_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/206451_200168526682679_100000685989576_599801_7846 398_n.jpg

Helmuth.Fishmonger
05-24-2011, 10:54
Glacier Point road :-)

What's the story of the car? Buried all winter?

wandering_bob
05-25-2011, 00:37
Victim of a passing rotary snow plow?:-?

Dogwood
05-25-2011, 03:12
Last yr, on June 26, as I was making my way to the CDT northern terminus for a solo SOBO thruhike start of the CDT I was in one of the first cars allowed to travel through on the first day when the Going To The Sun Road was opened to vehicles at Glacier NP. At Logan Pass on the GTTS Rd. the rotary plows had channeled out a canyon 22 ft deep in the snow. Logan Pass is at an elevation of around 6650 ft. I knew I would have several passes to travel over at about 9000 ft elevation on the CDT in GNP. Since I had only my crampons and ice axe with me and no snowshoes and the snow was getting soft in the early afternoon I knew postholing would be in the mix, BUT I wasn't exactly expecting 22 ft + of snowpack either! At first I was intimidated! This was the first time I had been to GNP.



I set off on the CDT with an already comfortable of hiking on/through snow attitude, approprate clothing and shelter, a willingness to turn around if conditions got too hairy, detailed topos, a reliable compass, that ice axe, crampons, knowledge of how to use that equipment, and a willingness to try the route out. I knew travel would be slow and there would be no trail to follow much of the way. For two days I saw no trail or no evidence of anyone before me. I saw only three people out there in 4 days. There was no one around to ask questions.



I don't think I possess some super human hiking skills or extra ordinary backpacking knowledge. If I can do that isn't it quite possible some others with the same equipment and skills could do the same on a more well traveled trail like the JMT in mid July at Yosemite NP, where in great likelyhood, they will not be the first to have traveled the JMT that yr? Do folks believe the whole JMT will be under snow in mid July?


Just saying.


Get your head's on straight, emotions in check, get last minute current trail conditions just before your start, ask questions(excellent sources are NP backcountry hiking Rangers at the Backcountry Offices, PCTers(most likely many will be in or through the Sierras by mid July, might be some hanging around at Tuolomne Meadows resupplying), JMT thru-hikers(yes, in all most likelyhood others will have thrued or be well along their JMT thrus by mid July) etc), and prepare your gear and yourself for the known trail conditions.


I'm all for preparation and awareness, but hiking often entails NOT knowing exactly how everything will unfold. Contemplating that scares the be Jesus out of some folks. Hiking often can be a vehicle to face unknowns. Embrace it! Might be one way in which we grow.

tuswm
05-25-2011, 10:49
I am worried about MPD, having to pay for gear I will never use again, and impossible creek crossings. and by worried I mean excited.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
05-25-2011, 10:53
some of these images are from a while back, right after the last bigger storm. The first one seems pretty current, rest is Badger Pass area and not from this week. Plows are coming across the pass from the east now, almost at Tuolumne Meadows, while from the west they still have many miles to go to meet the crews that came over from Mono County.

plow positions on May 23:

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/images/tiogamap_12.gif

Helmuth.Fishmonger
05-25-2011, 11:05
I don't think I possess some super human hiking skills or extra ordinary backpacking knowledge. If I can do that isn't it quite possible some others with the same equipment and skills could do the same on a more well traveled trail like the JMT in mid July at Yosemite NP, where in great likelyhood, they will not be the first to have traveled the JMT that yr?

yeah, anything is possible, and with the right determination, you can probably hike the trail right now in trail runners. But you will need some serious dedication for that to succeed.

This particular hiker arrived at the portal planning to do this on foot, not snow shoes or ski - thus the assumption that he is probably unaware of the true conditions out there right now.

What are they like?

May 12 ski tour report:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1861081323656.2093224.1139611913&l=547923e3b9

and one form a few days later in the Muir Pass region - around May 16 I think

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.218396684854280.71602.100000518514856&l=97a71b9ddc

Hike that without ski or show shoes? good luck with that. It has snowed some more since the last set of images was posted.

And in late May, the JMT is anything but "well traveled" - a few touring ski folks, a few every other day at best, and very few following the JMT. Maybe 3 or 4 do it per year at best. The rest may be some well equipped PCT hikers, but many of them simply skip the Sierra and come back in later season to stay on schedule. Few have time to wait out the thaw, and I bet even fewer would have the gear to deal with the mid May conditions this year. Basically, snow shoes or ski are the only mode of transportation right now.

The Yosemite plow crews report 15 feet on the road well below Tuolumne Meadows. There probably are about 30-40 feet around Muir Pass.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
05-25-2011, 11:14
I am worried about MPD, having to pay for gear I will never use again, and impossible creek crossings. and by worried I mean excited.

impossible creek crossings? Not on the JMT unless you hit the peak thaw day of the year and then you always have the option to cross country up stream for a mile or two and find an easier crossing (Bear Creek for sure, Evolution gets easier just a few hundred feet upstream from the normal crossing).

The thing I'd worry about in early season is the sheer number of wet crossings - compared to a late season trip when you may have one or two wet crossings, you can have 3 or 4 per day in some sections when the water is still coming down hard. That will slow you down and present hard to cross streams in places they usually are not expected. Careful on those that aren't labeled as 'major crossings' - because with enough water some of those are actually more dangerous than the relatively slow flowing Bear and Evolution Creek.

The hardest crossings from 2009 and 2010 were creeks I don't even know the name off without pulling out a map - one was the second crossing south of Sivler after you drop down the steep switchbacks (mono creek?) and the other was a stream about 45 minutes above Woods Creek on the steep downhill from Pinchot. It usually is dry or easily boulder-hopped, but when were there there in 2009, it was a raging whitewater torrent and almost swept us off our feet. Similar situation at the creek below Silver Pass last year. One person lost a hiking pole - the water just ripped it out of her hand, and many of the others made the smart choice to keep their hiking boots on their feet for better and safer footing. Wet boots are much easier to deal with than a fall in those streams.

remember to always unbuckle that backpack when crossing, use poles for extra legs, move one point at a time so you always have a tripod safely on the ground. In most streams it really helps to set hiking poles to a much taller setting than what is comfortable on normal trails, since they dig in between boulders you walk on.

tuswm
05-25-2011, 11:24
In most streams it really helps to set hiking poles to a much taller setting than what is comfortable on normal trails, since they dig in between boulders you walk on.

Thats good advice

Helmuth.Fishmonger
05-25-2011, 11:49
another good link to keep an eye on is the Happy Isle water gauge webcam

http://ca.water.usgs.gov/webcams/happyisles/

the graph link on it shows you a flow rate history over a few days - gives you a good idea on trending. Right now the river is almost as high as it gets at 1690 ft³/s

I think it can get up to about 2000 on really hot spring days. So if you see these numbers drop back before your hike, you'll know the worst is over.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
05-25-2011, 11:59
another cool link
http://waterwatch.usgs.gov/new/index.php?r=ca&id=ww_current

click on the sites in Yosemite. I just pulledup the Tuolumne above Hetch Hetchy and got this graph for peak flow historic data compared to today:

http://waterwatch.usgs.gov/new/wwapps/ftc.php?site_no=11274790

based on that, I'd expect our peak this year to be in mid June and perhaps higher than in 2010, so right now we are probably at 60% of peak. It's been cold up there, with snow likely today in the upper elevations around Mammoth again.

The same site showed me that for Happy Isles, the record flow was 13.27 feet (5.39 today) back in 1997. The big snow years don't necessarily create those high stages, as 2010 peaked at 8.06 and 2006 isn't even listed (lots of snow) and even the 1982 snow year is not on that list. So runoff probably has a lot to do with temperatures, and not necessarily with snow depth. Obviously, lots of snow means a good chance to get a lot of runoff, however, peak for 2010 was in late October, and the other years show mid winter dates, not spring flow!

Dogwood
05-25-2011, 16:12
...yeah, anything is possible, and with the right determination, you can probably hike the trail right now in trail runners. But you will need some serious dedication for that to succeed.

And in late May, the JMT is anything but "well traveled" - a few touring ski folks, a few every other day at best, and very few following the JMT. Maybe 3 or 4 do it per year at best. The rest may be some well equipped PCT hikers, but many of them simply skip the Sierra and come back in later season to stay on schedule. Few have time to wait out the thaw, and I bet even fewer would have the gear to deal with the mid May conditions this year. Basically, snow shoes or ski are the only mode of transportation right now.

Notice carefully what I said!

"I don't think I possess some super human hiking skills or extra ordinary backpacking knowledge. If I can do that isn't it quite possible some others with the same equipment and skills could do the same on A MORE WELL TRAVELED trail like the JMT IN MID JULY at Yosemite NP, where in great likelyhood, they will not be the first to have traveled the JMT that yr? Do folks believe the whole JMT will be under snow in mid July?"

I was not speaking about hiking the JMT right now! I was not speaking about conditions or hiking in mid- late May on the JMT or in the Sierras! I was not speaking about PCTers or JMTers thruing the Sierras in mid MAY! Please keep in context what I've stated. ALSO, since you(Helmuth) and myself have been following a few perspective JMTers on other thread s here on WB we should already be aware of their aniticipated start times, direction of travel, etc.

Blissful
05-25-2011, 18:05
Well I'm changing footwear to my Salomon gtx boots (I'd love to wear trail runners but can't with the likely kick steps to get up and down snowy passes. Still had a pair left that is really unused) and just got some better water crossing shoes rather than flimsy crocs. Will also get gaiters. We have already gotten a new tent. I plan to do this thing if at all possible.
Ice ax needed by mid July this year?

Dogwood
05-25-2011, 19:58
Maybe 3 or 4 do it per year at best. The rest may be some well equipped PCT hikers, but many of them simply skip the Sierra and come back in later season to stay on schedule. Few have time to wait out the thaw, and I bet even fewer would have the gear to deal with the mid May conditions this year. Basically, snow shoes or ski are the only mode of transportation right now. - Helmuth



Well, it's mostly front runners on a NOBO PCT thru that would be hitting Kennedy Meadows/southern Sierras in early-mid May. And those that were planning on being through the Sierras that early would be aware of trail conditions. Most of the PCT NOBO masses typically hit KM between the first and third weeks of June. And, I'll venture that many(most?, all?) PCTers will be advised of this yr's snowfall, how fast it's melting, and suggested Sierra entry date as posted on www.postholer (http://www.postholer/). For the most part PCTers will plan their Sierra entry dates well and adjust their hikes and hiking rates according to trail conditions where necessary. By May/early June NOBO PCT thru-hikers have come a long way already so they are seasoned hikers and in thru-hiker mode. I'll venture, unless trail conditions are truely horrendous in early-mid June most of the PCT masses will not skip the Sierras at that time. That's why I suggest one doing a JMT SOBO thru-hike starting in early July ay Happy Isles consult these hikers or the PCT-L website for on trail conditions. The most up to date trail conditions known, obviously, the better a JMTer can prepare!



True, not every hiker can wait for trail conditions to improve, but some NOBO PCTers
DO hold up at KM waiting for last minute gear to arrive to match the Sierra hiking conditions and/or wait on resupplies to arrive. Even thru-hikers are not run away trains. They can and do alter their hikes to be in certain places on certain dates according to trail conditions.

Ice ax needed by mid July this year? - Blissful


This is a common question for JMTers and certainly with some PCTers. Some struggle with the decision. Most likely not, IMO, but you have to ask yourself how comfortable you feel traveling on snow or ice IF you have to do that in mid July? How extensive is the snow travel/cover?; that's BIG consideration to some! What might the conditions of the snow be IF you do have to travel on it? For example, can you just kick step your way over and down soft snow for short snow travel distances. If you are concerned about it might I suggest you buy or borrow an ice axe(CAMP makes one of the lightest ones and is tuely an Ice axe for about $100), have it in the wings waiting, if AFTER making yourself known of trail conditions JUST PREVIOUS to your start date in July you think snow and ice still might pose a significant issue for you on the JMT passes, then take it along. You still have about five weeks before your SOBO JMT start though. Much can change!


At the expense of repeating myself, relate your concerns to NP Backcountry Rangers. They are an excellent resource for the most up to date(early July) trail conditions.


It may just be my illusion but it's my best guess a SOBO JMTer starting at Happy Isles in early July this year will not be faced with some kind of winter wonderland hike as illustrated in the pics above! They might very well experience patches of snow/ice on the passes, on north facing and shady slopes, and a few cold waist deep and possibly swift fords. But, all that is opinion. You don''t know for sure what you will be faced with until you check out trail conditions just prior to setting off on your hike.

Blissful
05-25-2011, 20:09
Thanks, helpful stuff. :)

Dogwood
05-25-2011, 21:17
I am worried about MPD, having to pay for gear I will never use again, and impossible creek crossings. and by worried I mean excited.

If I recall correctly, you are hiking with your wife/GF on her first real long hike, you have a wedding to get back to on the other side of the country, have rather tight set travel arrangements, have a SOBO JMT start date at Happy Isles in the thrd week of July, and are anticipating avg 14 MPD?


Considering all that, and some other things you already mentioned, and barring injury, you should be able to attain your avg MPD! Some days may be more challenging. Some days you may do more MPD than 14. Some days, perhaps, you will hike less miles. When it's all said and done you should be able to acheive what you initially planned!


Whether or not your other travel arrangements work out or if they flow smoothly without any major hiccups depends on how you made them. I think we went into some detail already concerning those potential issues on the thread started by you, Help With Timing Issues?


If you are referring to buying gear like ice axes and/or crampons, IMO, I can't see a GREAT need of that gear starting a SOBO JMT thru from Happy Isles in the third wk of July. BUt, check trail conditions just before heading to Cali! Make final adjustments as needed!


Creek crossings in July should be approached with care, possibly more so this yr! HF, on this thread, and Fiddleback, on another thread, offered some solid stream crossing tips. Go back and read them again if you forgot their posts. I believe HF mentioned the most likely potentially hazardous stream crossings. If the water is of high volume(you might inquire of this at the BC Ranger Office!) perhaps you can time it to make those fords with the GF in the morn when streams are typically lower from snowmelt. Stream crossings will not be impossible in late July! Ask about stream levels and possible fording idea from the NP Rangers! You and your GF know how to swim, right? LOL.


Tusm, IMO, you are more prepared than most JMTers! Have a good time. Make that flight back home or you'll be in the doghouse with the GF!

Helmuth.Fishmonger
05-26-2011, 00:53
...yeah, anything is possible, and with the right determination, you can probably hike the trail right now in trail runners. But you will need some serious dedication for that to succeed.

And in late May, the JMT is anything but "well traveled" - a few touring ski folks, a few every other day at best, and very few following the JMT. Maybe 3 or 4 do it per year at best. The rest may be some well equipped PCT hikers, but many of them simply skip the Sierra and come back in later season to stay on schedule. Few have time to wait out the thaw, and I bet even fewer would have the gear to deal with the mid May conditions this year. Basically, snow shoes or ski are the only mode of transportation right now.

Notice carefully what I said!

"I don't think I possess some super human hiking skills or extra ordinary backpacking knowledge. If I can do that isn't it quite possible some others with the same equipment and skills could do the same on A MORE WELL TRAVELED trail like the JMT IN MID JULY at Yosemite NP, where in great likelyhood, they will not be the first to have traveled the JMT that yr? Do folks believe the whole JMT will be under snow in mid July?"

I was not speaking about hiking the JMT right now! I was not speaking about conditions or hiking in mid- late May on the JMT or in the Sierras! I was not speaking about PCTers or JMTers thruing the Sierras in mid MAY! Please keep in context what I've stated. ALSO, since you(Helmuth) and myself have been following a few perspective JMTers on other thread s here on WB we should already be aware of their aniticipated start times, direction of travel, etc.

so you missed the whole part about the guy who just started?

what were you replying to then?

Helmuth.Fishmonger
05-26-2011, 01:07
It may just be my illusion but it's my best guess a SOBO JMTer starting at Happy Isles in early July this year will not be faced with some kind of winter wonderland hike as illustrated in the pics above!

The point of the pix above is: in a normal May, you don't see a winter wonderland up there. Instead, you'd find seriously suncupped snow that is melting away quickly, not conditions for perfect ski runs.

Meanwhile, it is apparently snowing again in Mammoth tonight, and there's another shot at snow on the weekend. Time for that hot sprng is running out, and with each cold week that goes by now in spring, the snow will last one week longer into the summer.

Dogwood
05-26-2011, 01:53
No, I didn't miss the story about the guy who just started. While that story is interesting and details CURRENT snow conditions in the Sierras it DOES NOT FULLY address snow conditions when the two perspective JMT thru-hikers on this thread plan on starting THEIR JMT thru-hikes, who I mainly was addressing in my posts on this thread. One of them started this thread and by the title of it one of their concerns should be obvious. I attempted to alleviate some of that concern, not elevate it!

I, and I thought you, were following their perspective hikes. You certainly provided much worthy advice in other threads when they asked questions about the JMT. I thought you were aware of their start times. I thought by now after all my posts it should be very obvious where I've been going -don't act prematurely with regard to trail conditions that will be experienced 4-6 weeks from now! Conditions will be different.


While having a detailed long term play by play weather review leading up to their July starts might help prepare for trail conditions for when they start they REALLY DO NOT YET HAVE A FULL picture of trail conditions for when they will start in 5-6 wks. That is best determined with trail reports/conditions nearer to when they hike the JMT. While posting pics of recent snow accumulations and conditions are quite stunning they don't accurately or fully portrait what those conditions will be like in 5-6 wks! Now, do they?


Not saying this is THE WAY it will be in 5-6 wks but, perhaps, MUCH of the "Worried About Snow Conditions" thinking MIGHT NOT be as BIG of a concern in 5-6 wks!


Just a thought.


Too bad about the Whitney portal store. It seems like you would be a great asset there with your knowledge of the Sierras. With your love affair with the Sierras(I love it too!) I suspect one day you might live closer to it than Wisconsin.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
05-26-2011, 16:15
I, and I thought you, were following their perspective hikes. .

to me the thread appears to be generally about the snow conditions, not just the two hikers and their plan. I figured others with different plans could benefit from the info, too. I also didn't mean to imply anywhere that the snow conditions in the summer would resemble May. In fact, if I were to cross teh Sierras with snow, I'd prefer the May snow over what comes in June when the snow cupping begins to get extreme.

Based on the snow fall numbers, the cool spring weather so far, I think it's safe to say now that this summer will have more snow than last year, and last year was already a rather white July for the JMT average.

What happens in May has a lot of impact on what you get in July. We are only a few weeks away from July, and in a below average year, you'd be able to hit Donohue Pass on July 4 and not touch any snow. We are well beyond that condition. I'd say in 2011, you have to go up there on August 4 to not touch any snow on the trail.

FWIW, I base that on 23 years of Sierra experience, always with a slant towards early season. I am a sucker for snow on passes - without that, the Sierra loses its alpine character for me and becomes little more than a crowded pretty horse trail. Early season means less hikers, more water, more color, more flowers, and a real big mountain feel up on the passes. You pay for it with the mosquitoes, and some folks may have to modify their gear choices if they planned on a sunny and dry mid summer trip. Bascially, I've never hiked the trail in August. That month would be my lat choice for a JMT hike. Only once was I there in September, the rest was all late June through late July, or months well outside the popular JMT window.

Based on those recent May snow reports, I am 99% certain that unless you actually are looking for snow like I am, you will have less than desireable conditions before mid July, possibly later, depending on what your idea of "too much snow" is. Too many parameters make it difficult to predict a general date for when it is "good to go" for somebody else, as you don't know what their response to snow will be. I've seen many hikers hit snow on these passes for the first time in their hiking days, and most of them handled it just fine. Only a few responded with extreme caution, usually triggered by the realization that their trail runners had very limited grip. But even they made it, because compared to climbing steep snow couloirs on big mountains the JMT snow fields are pretty safe terrain. Just totally new for many hikers.

The "danger" areas are very limited even when there is a lot of snow, so unless you have a snow-phobia, conditions will never really be that bad to wreck your hike when you start after June 15. It's just going to change from slushy wet stuff at 10,500 to solid snow above 11,500 in mid June to slushy snow above 11,500 in mid July. As always, early mornings on frozen snow are the most dangerous hours of the day, and that only really matters on Mather (north) and Forester (south) where slipping can actually result in a dangerous slide, but those areas are very limited (a few steps here and there). For the most part, it's just a different kind of trail.

So based on what I have seen so far, here is what I predict for a July 15 start this year:


- some snow on Cathedral Pass and some patches east of the pass into the woods.


- snow on Donohue will start above the crossing of Lyell Fork, with solid snow above the second crossing, all the way across the top and down to the valley floor on the south ramp, about where the first small trees start growing.


- Island Pass will be snowy from before you reach the top, as that approach in the north is protected from the sun. Only small patches down to 1000 Island Lak. The top of the pass will be snow free for the most part, with some patches in protected areas


- smaller patches on and off on the many ridges that follow before dropping to Reds.


- no idea about the section above Reds, as I rarely go there. It's not very high and very exposed to south and western sun, so probably no real issues there.


- definitely snow at Silver Pass, probably starting just above the last lake. Big snow field and not safe in the early morning when frozen hard. south side should be almost clear. There were only small patches on that side last year.


- Selden Pass isn't a big snow pass - just patches there last year, and even if there's more, it probably will have the least snow of any pass, pending local weather abnormalities.


- Muir Pass - serious snow. That area is a different climate zone. It all begins before Wanda Lake and depending on when you hit it, there may be little trail beyond Wanda and the next time you'll see it is down below Helen Lake on the other side. It won't be quite as bad as this image http://picasaweb.google.com/dirtybrew/PCT2HighSierras#5526393588171131714 (http://picasaweb.google.com/dirtybrew/PCT2HighSierras#5526393588171131714)but that may not even be a good thing, as the slushy melting snow we had a month after that image was very difficult to hike on.


- Mather - steep pass, and with snow the north side of it can be one of the more difficult places, especially if you should get off trail (easy to lose since many times the snow tracks hit rocks and the previous group would use the rocks to continue up). Always good to know where you ultimately have to end up. If in doubt on Mather, climb up on the rocks towards the east or south east - eventually you will see where to go. But caution, even the bigger rocks can be loose...


- Pinchot will have some snow fields on the north side, but nothing that will slow you down. Most cases you will be able to bypass them. South flank could get a littel sketchy if there's a lot of snow.


- Glen is among the tougher passes with snow - the north side especially, where with a lot of snow the trail gets completely buried and it is a steep pass, with very loose talus between the switchbacks. So the more you can stick to the trail the better, but for a while the terrain is rather steep and you will be happy to see footprints that give you some assurance to be on the right track. South of Glen the trail is cut in a very loose flank of the mountain and even if the switchbacks are snowed in, you want ot stay on that route, on top of the snow, rather than get into the steep loose scree that makes up the upper south flank of the pass. Very early in the season, there can be some tricky snow fields and going down is even harder than up because of the different perspective http://picasaweb.google.com/dirtybrew/PCT2HighSierras#5526393176541430930


- Forester - snow will begin for real just as you come around the last bend onto the ridge that opens up the final view to the pass, and it will most likely be one big snow field from there, but nothing really dangerous. South of the pass then the pucker zone at the deeply cut couloir just below the summit - here on June 8, 2010:http://picasaweb.google.com/dirtybrew/PCT2HighSierras#5526392990376826514


That place will have a proper trail cut through it by mid July but when frozen in the morning, it is a real danger zone. If you have an ice axe, that will be the place you will feel good about having brought it. You'll also be putting on whatever crampons you have.


- Trail Crest is usualy not very snowy until you begin the descent to the Portal. Nothing really up on the trail to Whitney. There is very little snow now. But down lower on the switchbacks, where all that snow from the top has been deposited, you'll probably have a lot of snow on some switchbacks. Should not be a big deal with all the traffic on that route, though. Down at the cables it may be the only place where you will want to be very careful, especially if the packed snow trail is above the cables.
Having seen total rookies in higher than normal snow years, I don't remember anyone ever turning back. There's some learning experiences that come early on, and after you know where to watch for possible weak snow (melt from below), it's business as usual. Only adds to the adventure. My kids were very cautious the first few times on snow fields, but now, after two rather snowy summers, the white stuff doesn't bother them at all.

It is really just the deep crossings that worry them, and for good reason, given their bodies are much more likely to be carried away. Where the water gets deep or moves fast, I carry their gear across and then walk each of them across in a pair to maximize their safety. So instead of walking Bear Creek once through deep water, I went 9 times last year. Gives you a new perspective - it's really not that dangerous if you focus and know how to move safely. The cold water won't get you in summer, given even 9 back-to-back careful crossings just numbed the pain. The first one is always the coldest.



Too bad about the Whitney portal store. It seems like you would be a great asset there with your knowledge of the Sierras. With your love affair with the Sierras(I love it too!) I suspect one day you might live closer to it than Wisconsin.

Well, there are other plans in the works. Working all summer at the store may actually not be the best way to enjoy the Sierra... And then there are those kids who first need to get to college before I can become a real mountain bum.

Blissful
05-26-2011, 19:14
Hope this holds true for a July 7th start (ours) as I plan to print it out. :)

Maybe also best guess as to water crossings and levels, where to access etc?

Helmuth.Fishmonger
05-26-2011, 19:59
Hope this holds true for a July 7th start (ours) as I plan to print it out. :)

Maybe also best guess as to water crossings and levels, where to access etc?


July 7 = one week of melt less, and more likely to meet my description. Worst case, the whole thing starts a few feet lower down. Definitely want to bring boots you know have good grip on snow and won't soak through. If in doubt, treat any leather with SnoSeal - that stuff really works.

A list for what crossing will be deep is short. A list that covers all potential difficulties when crossing would be very long and not really helpful. I'll have to think that over, because conditions on creeks really vary with daytime temps and can be dramatically different just because of short term weather changes. I suppose a worst scenario list may help, but then I don't think I have seen every crossing at their worst.

ChinMusic
05-26-2011, 20:12
Thanks so much for your predictions. I have been waiting for a guess like this for my trip with my daughter starting 7/18. I'm HOPING for a bit of snow on Cathedral Pass. Also the late snow should be beautiful.

Pedaling Fool
05-29-2011, 09:49
Different part of the country, but they also had record snow fall in Yosemite; curious to see how this plays out on the JMT. http://www.abc27.com/story/14744082/record-snow-makes-spectacular-yosemite-waterfalls

Record snow makes spectacular Yosemite waterfalls

YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK, Calif. (AP) - Water, water everywhere - and it's a spectacular sight.

Record Sierra snowfall over the winter now means record snow melt as temperatures rise, swelling Yosemite National Park's iconic waterfalls, streams and rivers to their most turbulent level in years.

Yosemite Falls, the nation's tallest, is spewing enough water to fill a gasoline tanker truck every two seconds. The force of water at Bridalveil Falls across the valley kicks up a mist that clouds the meadow below.

It means that until the peak melt around mid-June, visitors will experience more treacherous beauty in Yosemite than even the travel brochures promise.

"Breathtaking, that's what it is," said Lynne Bousie of Scotland, who stopped to pose for a photograph at the spot where the paved trail to Yosemite Falls makes a turn and the first full view of its entire 2,425-foot drop comes into view.

Water cascading from the many signature falls that cut across Yosemite's granite walls (as well as countless unnamed ones that spout only in peak years like this) is swelling the Merced River. For the next few months the roar of violently churning water will drown out all other background noise in the park.

"Some falls that you can see now don't have names and aren't even on the map," said park spokeswoman Kari Cobb.

Already the frigid, 40-degree river that drains Yosemite Valley's snowmelt is flowing at more than 1,600 cubic feet per second, carrying people and objects away at more than 10 mph.

"That's infinitely more powerful than anyone can imagine," said Moose Mutlow, coordinator of Yosemite's swift water rescue program, which began practicing for the season on Thursday. "You can't keep up with someone if the water is that fast and you're running and dodging trees."

Even minor creeks and streams are flowing hard, which has forced closure of a few campsites. Because of the mild spring, the danger of flooding has been reduced.

Thanks to a snowpack twice as deep as usual park officials say the ephemeral falls like Yosemite that dry up in early summer will still by flowing into August. For the first time in a long time record melt and the peak visitor season are falling on the same weekend.

Yosemite Valley was carved eons ago by the ebb and flow of glaciers over many ice ages. The sheer 3,000-foot granite cliffs drain multiple watersheds, each sending a cascade of water into Yosemite Valley. Some flow for only a few weeks - or in dry years not at all.

It's a dangerous beauty both in its force and in the allure that draws some people near. Rangers warn visitors to keep a safe distance and to be mindful the water makes granite boulders slippery.

Two people died earlier this month in accidents that might have been attributed to the water. One visitor slipped and fell below Yosemite Falls, where raging water sends a wet shroud over trails and rocks. Another fell into the Merced River, where he swiftly was carried about 150 yards and lodged under a rock. It is presumed he drowned.

Only three of Yosemite's dozens of waterfalls can be counted on to flow all year -- Bridalveil, Vernal and Nevada, and the last two require a steep hike. For a few more weeks, however, even those without the stamina for long walks can experience something rare and special.

"We are very lucky the timing was right," said James Ayres of England as he gazed at Yosemite Falls. "This is incredible."

Pedaling Fool
05-29-2011, 09:53
Correction: I was thinking the JMT was in Colorado.

Dogwood
05-29-2011, 19:33
The "danger" areas are very limited even when there is a lot of snow, so unless you have a snow-phobia, conditions will never really be that bad to wreck your hike when you start after June 15. Helmuth

This sums up what I've been attempting to relate!

Blissful
05-29-2011, 19:45
I am going on your optimism :) as my hubby is really having second thoughts and planning another hike within Yosemite proper (like in the canyon area) if its too dangerous (with danger of water crossing and snow travel in the passes), though I am really trying to hope for the best. We looked into possible changing airline tickets, thinking of other trails, but the cost is too much to transfer or something else and we had gotten them way back in Jan.

Blissful
05-31-2011, 11:19
A poster on the JMT Yahoo group mentioned that crampons are needed for an early July start this year. The microspikes are rolling. And some PCTers are getting ready to head into the Sierras. Should get some more reports soon.

http://www.pcta.org/planning/during_trip/A_Trail_con_CC.asp

Snowleopard
05-31-2011, 11:30
A poster on the JMT Yahoo group mentioned that crampons are needed for an early July start this year. The microspikes are rolling. ...
On steep terrain microspikes (and traction) can roll off your foot. In the Northeast in winter, people will often carry both microspikes and crampons into the mountains. The microspikes are very convenient, easy on and off and easy to walk with. But, at some point it gets steep enough that crampons are safer, especially if you can fall very far. Lots of info on this at adkforums (http://adkhighpeaks.com/) and http://viewsfromthetop.com/forums/.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
05-31-2011, 12:41
A poster on the JMT Yahoo group mentioned that crampons are needed for an early July start this year.

It's a very personal decision. I have used crampons in summer and winter in the Sierra, but I'd never take them on a proper JMT even in June this year. I'd also never purchase microspikes. However, I do wear real mountaineering boots, which you will need for crampons to stay on your feet and not hurt you anyway. But once you have the boots, you already have what it takes to navigate most snow and ice conditions on the JMT. If it's truly black ice on the steep stuff, wait for the sun, brew some exta coffee and then go.

Dogwood
05-31-2011, 17:47
FWIW, I just tried, 3 days ago, to hoof it SOBO on the PCT from Chester CA where the trail crosses Highway 36 to Quincy. Above 6000 - 6200 ft it was complete snow travel. Without snowshoes I decided not to continue. I will try again in about two wks depending on weather.

We should, HOPEFULLY, start seeing that typical Sierra mid June melt kicking in soon! Temps simply have not been consistently warm enough for much snow to melt. Instead, we are still experiencing cold spells and the occassional light snowfall in higher elevations around the Carson City/Lake Tahoe area. For JMTers looking at July/Aug SOBO starts I would keep in mind that trail conditions can, and often do, change significantly during June! With days getting longer and warmer it's just a matter of time when that melt kicks in! It's a wait and see game depending on temps!

After leaving Chester, I hit the rails to trails Bizz Johnson Trail stretching about 26 miles from Westwood to Susanville. I got snowed on, only 3 inches though, two nights ago on that trail at an elev of about 5200 ft. It melted off on the old railroad grade by 9 a.m. The trail is especially well graded and quite scenic in the 20 miles or so nearest Susanville where it goes through Susanville Canyon and follows along the Susanville River.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-01-2011, 15:25
latest long term outlook from mammothweather.com - not much change in the near future, so the melt will be delayed even more



The updated outlook consedes that the train of closed lows will continue at least another week….possibly two

Wednesday June 1, 2011

Posted at 9:23 am by Howard


It there an end in sight? It looked that way a week ago….just a head fake!
Coldest May? Actually for Fresno, both May of 2010 and 2011 were tied at -3.7F degree below normal for the month.

It appears that another in the series of cool upper level low pressure systems will track across the Sierra today and tonight bringing snow showers and gusty winds to our region. Lake wind advisories go into effect at 1:00pm this afternoon and continue through 8:00pm tonight. The strongest winds will occur late afternoon and into the early evening hours with the FROPA. Then an even wetter system arrives for the weekend and may end up bringing a good 4 to 8 inches of snow above 9000 feet Sunday into Monday. Snow showers could begin anytime beginning Friday night. So here we go with another unsettled weekend and the way the WX maps look for next week it may continue for some time. Why?

OUTLOOK:
WX Discussion….
An expansive warm core ridge is expected to remain anchored from the mid southern states southwest to Northern Mexico. This working teleconnection tied with a persistent positive upper height anomaly off the British Columbian coast will keep a signifacant negative height anomaly in the mean off the Northern Coast for the next week, possibly two. This leads to a series of deep cyclones dropping down into California for the next week to 10 days. The guidance, operational and ensembles are all in agreement concerning the next system to effect California this weekend. After the weekend the ECMWF keeps a trof in the mean over California pretty much all of next week with a series of small features dropping south over our state as either coastal sliders or interior sliders. The next more organized system is poised to drop south in California about Saturday the 12th/Sunday the 13th. “It ain’t over till its over!” (Yogi Berra)

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-03-2011, 12:44
June 3rd forecast - check out the prediction on temps for the weekend, which is more important that the absolutely rare June rain in Owens Valley



FRIDAY 03-JUN-2011, 6:39 AM PDT
A few high clouds today as weak high pressure influences our district. So, mild temps and dry weather. But a very interesting early June weekend, weather wise, is in store for us. An impressive low pressure system from the Gulf of Alaska will begin its migration through Central California on Sunday. Ahead of this system, breezy conditions are expected in both Inyo and Mono Counties starting later today. For Mono County, a chance of rain and snow begins on Saturday and intensifies Sunday into Monday. Both counties will see increasing winds through the weekend and the Owens Valley will see a slight chance of rain on Sunday as well. Whats really interesting, for this time of year, is that temps are going to drop some 10 – 20 degrees below normal and snow amounts of several inches is expected above 7,500 feet by Monday. Along with this, there is a chance of hail producing thunderstorms here and there. The system exits by Tuesday and a mild warming trend will ensue thereafter.

Dogwood
06-03-2011, 18:56
HF, that was an extremely well written, knowledgable, and detailed post on #83.

Is it also safe to say that SOBO JMTers hiking at a moderate pace will experience additional snow melt as they head south in increasingly warmer temps?

sbhikes
06-03-2011, 19:51
I hiked a short week last August and I have to say the scenery is a lot more boring without snow. I'm a little snow phobic, but I think I would rather go with a lot of good firm snow than to go with big expanses of sun-cuppy snow. Since I'm a creek crossing wussy I'm not sure if having lots of pretty snow would override my fear of creeks, though. It would be a tough call for me whether to reschedule or not this year.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-04-2011, 01:04
HF, that was an extremely well written, knowledgable, and detailed post on #83.

Is it also safe to say that SOBO JMTers hiking at a moderate pace will experience additional snow melt as they head south in increasingly warmer temps?

Unless you're not a super fast trail runner, you'll be spending a few weeks on the trial so there is ample time for stuff to melt - all that runoff is coming from something. We usually find much less snow in the south, plus just like in years past, there's less snow towards SEKI to begin with

Dogwood
06-04-2011, 18:27
Thanks for spending the time in ALL the detailed responses!

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-08-2011, 17:53
another update, although by now it should be clear that we are having some pretty epic snow levels to deal with

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/06/08/MNVO1JQ9B4.DTL

quote from the photo caption in the article:

"The amount of snow along the Sierra Nevada Mountain Range is the deepest ever recorded this late in the year dating back to the construction of the Transcontinental Railroad starting in 1868"

Blissful
06-08-2011, 21:13
Glad for our decision. Looking forward to next year though.

wythekari
06-09-2011, 00:02
Speaking of snow in the Sierras... here is an article from today's LA Times on clearing the roads in Yosemite. Slow going this year.

http://http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-tioga-road-20110609,0,6656961.story

wythekari
06-09-2011, 00:09
Looks like link didn't post - Just check latimes.com. It's on the front page.

Blissful
06-09-2011, 08:45
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-tioga-road-20110609,0,6656961.story

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-09-2011, 13:48
last weekend near Los Angeles - not even the Sierra!

http://www.highsierratopix.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6309

Dogwood
06-09-2011, 15:43
OMG I guess a continuous NOBO PCT thru-hike hitting KM around the third wk of June is out of the question in this horrific startling yr of snowfall? I guess the PCTers desiring an uninterupted thru-hike will head home or hang out a KM until August to hike the Sierras?

Who would have known? - snow falls and freezing temps can occur even in June in some parts of southern and central? Who knew? - deserts or typically dry and hot regions can get below freezing temps and experience frost and ice? I thought they were always hot and sunny. I thought it never rained in So Cal too.

The eskimos are laughing right now. Snow? What snow? I don't see any snow. That's a dusting.

I'm going to practice my igloo and snowman building skills!

BRRRRRRRRRRR!

It's all tongue-in-cheek!

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-09-2011, 15:54
probably the first June since the ice age you could use one of these on the JMT

http://www.rei.com/product/724066/icebox-igloo-maker

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-09-2011, 16:00
a group started the JMT southbound yesterday - proper boots, self arrest hiking poles, well educated - here's their SPOT tracker link - just about to hit Long Meadow at the Sunrise HSC

http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0zKLPn7RExFV8G2X5dmhSX0bTUW4Hfz zY (http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0zKLPn7RExFV8G2X5dmhSX0bTUW4Hfz zY)

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-12-2011, 17:47
appears they bailed at the foot of Donohue and are not back at the Tioga Road. We'll see if they go back in. Based on what I have seen from the road plowing coverage, they probably had solid snow for much of Lyell Canyon, plus the melt is on, as it finally got pretty warm. Runoff and waterfalls was peaking yesterday - see the graphs here
http://ca.water.usgs.gov/webcams/happyisles/

Snow conditions as of Friday:

Central Sierra to about Mammoth 384% of normal for the date, southern Sierra 218% of normal for June 10

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/swcchart.action

Cookerhiker
06-12-2011, 18:19
I appreciate your updates. My GF and I aren't backpacking the JMT but we're heading to Yosemite for 2 weeks of base-camping and day-hiking with perhaps a 1 or 2 nighter. We're flying to Reno on July 4 and (were) planning to enter the Park from the east.

I noted from the reservations website that they're not taking camping reservations at Tuolumne Meadows CG until July 15 and that per the Park's automated voice system, the Tioga Pass Road is still closed.

Dogwood
06-13-2011, 03:05
.....plus the melt is on... - HF

It was late starting in ernest this yr but the warmth and longer days have definitely kicked in to a higher gear and the melt has accelerated big time. I thought I remember predicting it would soon! Still lots of the white stuff out there but for a JMT SOBO starting at the northern terminus of Happy Isles in mid July, well, I wouldn't have cancelled my thru-hike, but to each their own!

My GF and I aren't backpacking the JMT but we're heading to Yosemite for 2 weeks of base-camping and day-hiking with perhaps a 1 or 2 nighter. We're flying to Reno on July 4 and (were) planning to enter the Park from the east. - Cookerhiker

There you go. For someone with a bit of flexibility in the amount of time they have in the area, take that approach, and then thru-hike the JMT, most hikers would have a summer hiking vacation they would not soon forget!

Cookerhiker, consider a base camp day or two time at the Backpackers CG in Yosemite Valley. They only allow short stays there though! Careful how you use/plan your limited amount of time there. YV is also at a lower elev than TM which translates to less, maybe no, snow for a early-mid July stay! Maybe you could head to YV early on your two wk stay at Yosemite NP to avoid some lingering snow still at TM CG in early July. Depending on conditions when you get there, you might consider short hiking treks around Hetch Hetchy, down Grand Canyon of the Tuolomne River, and the southern rim of YV along the Pahono Trail.

Enjoy the time there!

Cookerhiker
06-13-2011, 06:56
Thanks for the tips. We're also considering base camping at the other CGs in between TM & YV e.g. White Wolf.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-13-2011, 10:57
.....plus the melt is on... - HF


yup, and most likely intensifying as long as it stays warm

http://waterwatch.usgs.gov/wwapps/ww_chart.php?i=nwis&vt=uv&site_no=11264500&p_cd=00060

Thing is, 6.8 feet is only 1/2 of record flow recorded at Happy Isles, so we may still see some significant increase in runoff.

peak last year was over 8 feet, but that was in October (early snow, fast melt, I guess). All other historic peaks I can find are also in winter, not spring. I always thought spring would be peak time.

the guys who started June 8 at Happy Isles have given up - hiked to the foot of Donohue, turned around. Last check in was at Tuolumne Meadows/Tioga Road yesterday.

Dogwood
06-13-2011, 16:00
Hey right! I wonder if those starting the JMT SOBO from HI on June 8 had snowshoes. I would have brought them, ice axe, and UL crampons or Kathoola Microspikes along this yr for THAT START DATE.

Damn right, be mindful of the creek and stream volumes this yr going forward into July!

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-13-2011, 16:50
Hey right! I wonder if those starting the JMT SOBO from HI on June 8 had snowshoes. I would have brought them, ice axe, and UL crampons or Kathoola Microspikes along this yr for THAT START DATE.

Damn right, be mindful of the creek and stream volumes this yr going forward into July!


if you're bringing snow shoes worth taking on such a trip, you really don't need those kathoola things: good snow shoes for the conditions on high mountains have usually very aggressive metal traction devices, so they can also serve on icy conditions, as long as things don't get too steep, when really only proper crampons get you going.

here are the snow shoes I use in the Sierra

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EXy6xfVDdQ

ignore the Flex tail - the sawtooh rails and teeth under the thing is what makes them work up there

No idea what gear they used - probably didn't have the right stuff, since Donohue Pass is in no way a difficult pass to cross with snow. In my book, I think it is the easiest of all.

Dogwood
06-13-2011, 17:29
Everyone has to hike their own hike. Each one of us has to find the right balance for our hikes, that includes the right balance of gear for our individual abilities and hiking styles. Personally, going up, over and down some of the steeper snow covered passes on the JMT or hitting those areas under very icy trail conditions I would not count on adequate traction with some types of snowshoes, especially the two types of snowshoes I've used on my snow filled hikes. And, currently, I'm not going to purchase more than the two pairs of snowshoes I already have. I would switch off to crampons for certain trail conditions based on MY HIKING ABILITIES AND HIKING STYLE AND WHAT GEAR I ALREADY HAVE.

I agree with you. Donahue is not typically known as a difficult pass. Maybe, that party felt very uncomfortable at that pt because of the trail conditions they encountered.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-13-2011, 18:10
it was probably the water they saw, with snow all around, and not knowing the trail, they decided to bail before even getting into some unknown difficult terrain. I tend to forget a lot of folks have never done the JMT, even if they go out at such an early date.

I've done it "early" but right now is probably the worst time - snow still high, and water crazy deep everywhere, about the levels you get in mid May in a normal year. That's usually the time nobody heads out on a JMT: too late for ski or snow shoes, too early for boots only.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-13-2011, 20:29
and an up to date report of conditions around Selden Pass as of June 12 - those snow shoes get mentioned again:



I just got back from a quick tour from Rock Creek to Selden Pass. There is still a lot of snow. I was not on the JMT except for crossing it near Selden Pass and Marie Lake (skied across the Lake).

From what I could see the snow line was down near the Bear Creek Crossing. To the south I could see that the entire Sally Keys basin was buried. Beyond, I could see snow at the entrance of Evolution Valley.

The snow on the north and east aspects is particularly rotten, travel on foot after 9:00 am and you wallow knee deep on these aspects (south and west aspects are much better). This only applies to elevations above treeline, and it seemed to get worse with elevation.

Normally I wouldn't recommend snowshoes this time of year, but right now they would definitely help (in that location after 9:00.)

From the looks of things, very few PCT'ers had past through as there were just two sets of very old and very deep, postholes.

Of course all this will be different in a couple of weeks, but maybe useful info as a baseline.

I'll post some pictures soon.

JD
Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
www.johndilli.com

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-14-2011, 17:02
report from the guys who started on June 8 at Happy Isles and bailed at Donohue:


Here are the current trail conditions:

1) Yosemite Valley to Forsythe Trail Junction: There is no snow here until about the last mile to the trailhead where it becomes intermittent snow which you can walk through but will definitely posthole in the afternoon. It's really wet here but you can find camping spots on ground. We did not use snowshoes on this (day one) and got through about 8 miles of hiking.

2) Forsythe Trail to Cathedral Lakes: During the first mile you can see the trail as you hike along the ridge but once you go into the forest it's all snow and snowshoes were necessary. We found the up and down of walking over snow extremely taxing as you are hiking up/down snow hills whenever you are in forest cover. We did not see the ground at all in this period and relied on the GPS to keep us on course. Long Meadow probably has 6-8 feet of snow still. Once you start your approach to Cathedral Pass it increases to probably 8-10 feet. Hiking any time after 11am, you will definitely be postholing--even in snowshoes which we wore all day. Water was even difficult to find during this period because there was so much snow. At lunch we had to use rope to drop our Nalgenes 8 feet down to an exposed creek and fill up that way. We camped near Cathedral Lake which is almost 100% frozen still. We were able to grab water near the outlet to Tanaya Creek but it was a small hole in the ice. We camped on snow and it was COLD IN THE MORNING!!!

3) Cathedral Lakes to Tuolomne: Snow all the way down to 120. We used snowshoes the entire time until hitting the road. There is probably a foot of snow in the meadow but we stayed on the road since we were behind, our feet were wet and cold, and we were tired of hiking in the snow. The road is clear at this point but there is not a ranger crew permanently stationed up there yet.

4) Tuolomne in Lyell Canyon: You can get away without snowshoes to Rafferty Creek but any part of the trail that is under forest cover still has snow piles ranging from 1-7 feet. We used our snowshoes the entire time after Rafferty because there was more snow than not. You can follow the trail all the way to Lyell Forks if you know what you are looking for, but we relied on the GPS a lot as well. The snow here is melting fast, and we noticed this even in two days, but the snow under the forest is still icy and hard, and not melting. We both thought how wet things were in the canyon, and you will need to be prepared to have really wet boots if you are hiking in this area in the next month. The trail is waterlogged and we had to be a little creative to stay dry. Dry campsites are even hard to find because there is so much water run off. Finding water is NOT a problem at least!

5) Lyell Forks to Donohue (or at 9650 feet up to Donohue where we turned around): At this point you start ascending quickly, can't find the trail, and are hiking in 8-10 feet of snow again. It is really steep and we couldn't even figure out where the trail was as we ascended. By 11am you start postholing and we can't imagine what the conditions would have been like in the afternoon. The snow here isn't melting and we realized at 9650 feet, there was no point in going higher.

Thanks for all the support, and we'll be back in a few years.

Mike and Marc

Cookerhiker
06-16-2011, 21:26
Per the Park's website:

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/tioga.htm

Blissful
06-20-2011, 09:50
Awesome videos and pictures on conditions right now at Forester Pass, etc. by PCT hikers.

http://erinspctjournal.blogspot.com/

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-25-2011, 09:29
Pictures from Tuolumne Meadows (Lake) taken 3 days ago - the melt is underway, and streams are probably at their peak for the season. Lyell Canyon should be clear up to 10,500 based on these photos. The stream gauge at Happy Isles has been pegged to 8 feet for most of the last 10 days, which is higher than it ever got last year in sping (and last year was pretty big in terms of snow).


http://www.imagesinthebackcountry.com/images/web_temp/mammoth-peak-062011-01.jpg


http://www.imagesinthebackcountry.com/images/web_temp/mammoth-peak-062011-02.jpg


Basically, if you start now, bring footwear that can handle wet and muddy trails for hours at a time, and expect the top of passes to be still heavily snowed in. In 2 weeks, everything will look very different again.

Earliest I will be on the trail this summer is late July, so this is probably all irrelevant by then.

Dogwood
06-25-2011, 15:54
You can't base trail conditions regarding snow levels for a jmt thru-hike starting in july from the jmt northern terminus at happy isles on trail conditions(snow levels) in may or even june! Snow levels can, and do, change rapidly, especialy during the month of june on the jmt!

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-27-2011, 19:37
aerial views from june 23 - all I can say is wow. It almost feels like we are 3-4 weeks behind in the thaw over a normal year. The 1000 Island condition is absolutely stunning. In a normal year, there's not even ice in it at this date and here we don't even have the beginnings of ice breakup.

https://picasaweb.google.com/JoeFellerAZ53/AerialPhotosJune232011#

Dogwood
06-27-2011, 20:24
I would say we are about 2-3 wks, closer to 3 wks, behind on the snow melt in the Sierras too. It's HOT and SUNNY out there though!

Those are stunning pics of rather current snow conditions. However, notice in many of those pics the bare ground between the highest elevations? That's largely where the JMT tread is not on the tops of those ranges and summits.

maxpower88
06-27-2011, 22:17
I am hiking Kearsarge Pass to Reds Meadow starting on 8/26 and was wondering what the consensus was on the snow and stream/river crossings by then. I have hiked in the Sierra in September but never with a snowpack like this years and the cold spring as well. Thanks in advance...

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-27-2011, 22:39
I would say we are about 2-3 wks, closer to 3 wks, behind on the snow melt in the Sierras too. It's HOT and SUNNY out there though!

Those are stunning pics of rather current snow conditions. However, notice in many of those pics the bare ground between the highest elevations? That's largely where the JMT tread is not on the tops of those ranges and summits.


like my son would say - whatever.

Dogwood
06-28-2011, 02:55
And, as my nephew would say it's bogus! It's bogus to believe that the JMT, as might be assumed from the pics, is entirely under snow.

skipstone
06-28-2011, 11:34
Dogwood, please find a gossip forum that welcomes your advanced intellect and profound comments. Fishmonger has not made any concrete statements, but rather, has presented predictions based on indicators and data from others. He has also maintained authenticity by clearly stating that conditions will be "very different" in 2 weeks.
Indicators are very useful in making predictions. When you test for avalanche danger, you can't test the middle of the slope you're going to ski, you test the surrounding snow and make a prediction, along with avalanche reports from outside sources. This forum has been very informative and productive largely in part to Fishmonger's sleuthing and sharing of his knowledge. I am starting the JMT on the 8th of July, and everyday I'm looking for a post from Fishmonger. The idea of this forum is to provide information and opinions about the snow on the JMT, and Fishmonger has done an amazing job of that. Thank you Fishmonger.
Typically, readers, and especially backpackers, gather all the information they find to be useful/applicable, and they compare it to other sources and come to their own conclusion. Dogwood, if you're going to argue someone's post, we might find value if you put some thought into your argument and provide resources that might support your statements. If your agenda is ill-willed, please refrain from posting on this thread. I'm afraid you will discourage Fishmonger from posting and providing information that has been very helpful to myself, and I imagine, others.

Dogwood
06-28-2011, 20:48
That was a rather dogmatic opinion based on my posts Skipstone. It was also a rather tongue-in-cheek sarcastic attack on me personally. I think you take my posts in the wrong context!


While I will add my own perspectives and info to this thread when I think they are not being considered or not being considered in sufficient depth, VIRTUALLY ALL of my comments are in agreement with and support HF's posts. This is not a competition or debate of wrong and right, if such a thing even exists, or having to have the last word! At least I hope it is not! Most of what I've been doing on this thread is adding to already GREAT INFORMATIVE POSTS! You also may have missed my posts on this thread and on others where I publically acknowledge the wealth of accurate helpful gained through experience info provided by HF. Just because I contribute to something already posted from a different angle it DOES NOT necessarily mean I'm being argumentative or disagreeable! However, I do sometimes have a difference of opinion and I will share that if I think it might help someone see things a bit differently. Seeing things from different perspectives coming from different folks will sometimes add to a discussion or experience. It might even help someone to try something that someone else says you shouldn't do! At least that's the way I approach most of my comments. And, let's be honest and candid! What all of us are doing, including you, Skipstone, Helmuth, myself, and everyone else making comments is MOSTLY offering opinions. If you don't like someone's opinions, including mine, don't read or consider them or simply ignore them!

Cookerhiker
06-28-2011, 20:58
I'm very grateful that this thread is still going and am pleased with HF's latest update on Post #123. We are leaving July 4 for Yosemite (flying into Reno), hoping to base camp at Tuolumne and hike for about 2 weeks. If we can get permits, we're also looking at 1-2 night backpacks.

skipstone
06-28-2011, 22:24
Dogwood, apologies for not being more elegant in expressing my distaste for you most recent posts, and for not acknowledging your former posts.

. . . . (extending hand for virtual handshake as apology for tongue-in-cheek sarcasm) . . . .

Say, back to the JMT?

Lightweight backpacking (and a limited budget) presents drama in this snowy situation. Crampons, snowshoes, crampons, snowshoes, BOTH!!??? Weight, weight, weight!! I have purchased Kahtoola steel crampons with the intent to hike the big snow early a.m. and be into manageable boot terrain by the time the snow softens up. Does anyone think it would be better to go with snowshoes instead so that I'm not postholing from 10:30 on?
Talked to the YV ranger yesterday, and she said that SOBO "people are turning back at Donahue . . . . take both crampons and snowshoes." They were likely unprepared for the conditions, however, this is not what I wanted to hear, and "BOTH" was a knife to the ear of a prospecting light-weighter. According to Erin's blog, posted by Fishmonger, they used the early morning crampon technique and successfully made the northbound from Whitney through Kearsarge pass and beyond. Sort of banking on that method I guess.

Snowshoes, crampons, BOTH??

Blissful
06-28-2011, 23:45
We talked to the ranger today after (with great sadness) releasing our pass-thru permits (wow that was really hard to do). He said that the lakes were still frozen and still a lot of snow in the Toulumne area. Some snow projected tonight also. He said he hadn't seen anything like it as they had no spring this year - just winter to summer. Anyway, glad for our decision as my hubby is also having major back issues right now. SO I guess everything works out, even though I am disappointed

Helmuth.Fishmonger
06-28-2011, 23:51
I never said the whole trail is under snow. However, I have been there over 20 times, and can probably track the trail on these images within a few tree trunks, and basically, there is a LOT more snow than you are supposed to have this time of year. If you're going in now, you will have to be read for hours of snow travel, daily, because almost every day you do get up to the area where it's white on the photos.

And more importantly: the streams will now be where they are in late May - bad. And note - I like snow. I'd love to be there right now, but I have no time right now. Most years I have started in late Jne, which is why I can tell the difference.

Dogwood
06-29-2011, 01:09
No problema Skipstone. I'm not beyond sometimes getting pissy, argumentative, and offering controversial strong opinions. Sometimes when someone checks me I have to go back and reread my comments. When doing so I have sometimes asked myself, "did I really say that pissy crap?" I have also made comments on threads without first reading all the posts and have stuck my foot in my mouth, on more than one ocassion, making comments out of context!



You ask legitimate questions on your predicament Skipstone. First, it sounds like you are still about 10 days away from the start of your SOBO JMT hike. If starting at Happy Isles that roughly puts you at Donahue in 12-14 days. That's that much more snow melt! As stated by HF Donahue is not typically know as difficult pass to go over even in above avg snow yrs. I have been up to the PCT in the Sierras between Chester and Truckee Cali 3 times in the last month. Snow still covers the PCT above about 6800 ft elevation where I've gone. Obviously, on open unshaded rocky southern and western facing slopes the snow is shallower and in a few places you can even notice snippets of trail above 6800 ft. This is several hundred miles north of the JMT. It's my best guess the snow is generally melting about a foot or so per wk in that area with the high temperatures now the norm. On the JMT MANY miles of trail is on rocky tread that acts as a heat sink and is open to sun exposure. You will not have to hike entirely on snow covered tread on the JMT starting out SOBO on July 8! Just look at some of the pics on this thread of Lyell canyon. It did seem summer took a long time to arrive this yr. We went from a cool spring(winter) almost directly into hot summer conditions. Couple that with the amount of snowfall this yr and the insightful comment made by HF about the snow's water content, and you got what you currently got. I keep saying it, trail conditions as far as snow trave,l is going to improve significantly as we move forward! Most of that's redundant info though.


I admittedly have less than 2 months total(60 days) experience hiking in snowshoes so I'm NO expert on that! I do own two different sets of snowshoes though and have hiked more miles in, on, and through snow and ice than I can recall. You might want to research and contact hardcore ULer Andrew Skurka about his recent 4600 mile Alaska trek. I'm sure he or someone like Trauma, a S&R Ski Patrol person, could offer more solid and substantial advise than anything I could.



I will mention, that going UL with something like Kahtoola Micro spikes in the morning over steep icey passes or on crusty snow capable of supporting your wt and switching off to snowshoes in warmer temps to float on top avoiding postholing sounds like a viable plan. But alot of this depends on the trail conditions on ground for when you will be where. You could also just bring appropriate snowshoes and time it so that you hit steeper snow covered areas during warmer parts of the day were you might be able to kick steps and do just some short sections of postholing. Snow depth, length of snow travel, snow characteristics, how comfortable you feel hiking on snow, and your timing, can and probably will play roles in your trek and how you should gear up. You could also bring both snowshoes and UL crampies ansd see how it goes. If at Reds Meadow or someplace else in particular you feel you don't need both send one set of that gear home! Lighten the load if safe to do so!


Hope this helps a little!


Enjoy the hike! It's going to be great!

Dogwood
06-29-2011, 01:11
I don't know why in this new format that I''m not getting spaces between my paragraphs? I put them in there! Sorry about the sprawl.

Red Hat
06-29-2011, 11:38
I'm very grateful that this thread is still going and am pleased with HF's latest update on Post #123. We are leaving July 4 for Yosemite (flying into Reno), hoping to base camp at Tuolumne and hike for about 2 weeks. If we can get permits, we're also looking at 1-2 night backpacks.


Wow, Cooker, I didn't know you were headed out there, too. You are going super early, though, so be careful! We'll be out in mid August and it should be better. Hope you have a great hike!

Cookerhiker
06-29-2011, 14:08
Wow, Cooker, I didn't know you were headed out there, too. You are going super early, though, so be careful! We'll be out in mid August and it should be better. Hope you have a great hike!

Have a great hike yourself Red Hat. Mid-August finds me (hopefully) at the same elevation but several hundred miles east of you on the Colorado Trail.

Cookerhiker
07-03-2011, 12:40
Well notwithstanding the apparent melting that's occurred as seen in Post #123, Tuolumne Meadows and all the high elevation campgrounds in Yosemite NP remain closed until at least mid-July - that's according to both the Park's recorded message and my conversation with a ranger yesterday.

Red Hat
07-03-2011, 16:40
Well notwithstanding the apparent melting that's occurred as seen in Post #123, Tuolumne Meadows and all the high elevation campgrounds in Yosemite NP remain closed until at least mid-July - that's according to both the Park's recorded message and my conversation with a ranger yesterday.

sorry, hope your Colorado hike works out better....

ChinMusic
07-04-2011, 16:14
Time to worry about high water. This pic was taken just a few days ago, a few days south of Yosemite:

11744

ChinMusic
07-04-2011, 23:09
Donahue Pass on 7/2:

11747

ChinMusic
07-11-2011, 11:33
Leaving for Yosemite this Friday (7/15). Gonna take my daughter up Lyell Canyon to start. It is a REAL easy section and will allow us some acclimation time. Gonna leave our tent near Kuna early in the morning on Saturday and dayhike up to Donahue and back. Hike back to Tuolumne on Sunday. I know we won't have any snow for this section except for whatever we choose to do on Donahue. Leaving Tuolumne on Monday and heading SLOWLY towards the Valley. Should encounter snow at Cathedral Pass. Some PCTers got lost trying to follow the JMT over Cathedral last week and had to turn back. I have the route on my GPS so route finding shouldn't be an issue.

Clouds Rest is a MUST for me on this trip. I hope the approach from the north is relatively clear. I don't need too much extra excitement on that climb. I haven't read any reports about Clouds Rest recently. I can only assume there there will be some snow on the northern exposure but no snow at the summit. After Clouds Rest it is on to Half Dome. Snow not an issue there.

After getting to the Valley we head over to Inyo/Ansel Adams and over to Ediza. Would like to head up to Iceberg Lake and am guess that area might be questionable. That section is still 12 days from now so maybe by then snow will only be a curiosity.

tba
07-12-2011, 09:17
I am doing this exact same route heading out from Tuolumne (Cathedral Lakes TH) on the 19th, the day after you with my wife and 14 year old son. We will literally be hiking in your tracks. I have been looking high and low for a map for my Garmin etrex Legend H but can't find one for this trail. Any suggestions?

72hw
07-12-2011, 21:32
Not sure about the maps, but just got back from doing a drop at Florence Lake for the Muir Trail Ranch. We put in on August 28th and obviously had questions about crossing on the JMT. Now of course the woman taking our parcels form us had a monetary interest int he matter, but she did first relate horror stories of PCT thru hikers bailing, being nearly over come by currents in crossings and that lots had stories to tell about the snow. She validated our concerns until she realized when we would be putting in - July 28th. She then said "You guys will be fine. Most of the hard stuff will have passed by then..."

Now I might not have been as trusting had she not mentioned prior to our questions that her family had been working the MTR since the 1940's.

Does anyone have verifiable information to share regarding the JMT crossings? Snow scares me not, but water...

72HW

ChinMusic
07-12-2011, 23:24
I am doing this exact same route heading out from Tuolumne (Cathedral Lakes TH) on the 19th, the day after you with my wife and 14 year old son. We will literally be hiking in your tracks. I have been looking high and low for a map for my Garmin etrex Legend H but can't find one for this trail. Any suggestions?

I sent TBA a garmin file for the area he is hiking. Since I have hiked this before the data will help if the pass is still under snow and tracks are hard to find.

I'm thinking the tracks should be pretty good with all the JMTers coming through. The only problem could be false trail-tracks made by others that got lost or decided to wonder. The GPS file will tell him quickly if he is off course.

tuswm
07-18-2011, 20:05
any updates

Cookerhiker
07-20-2011, 09:59
Just returned from 2 weeks in Yosemite and surrounding areas. Some of this info is dated as snow is melting steadily. In general, the open areas above treeline are losing snow fast but the forests continue to have clumps of snow in places. And even some open areas still have a lot of snow - it depends on the sun exposure.

Re. the JMT itself, we hiked Lyell "Canyon" 2 weeks ago. No snow but very wet and mucky - mosquitos were pretty bad. One week ago, we hiked in Ansel Adams to Shadow Lake - beautiful! But we met some thruhikers who had just hiked past Garnet Lake and had to use ice axes to hack through the snow. One of them post-holed so deep that his foot didn't hit bottom and the other nearly got carried away in a creek crossing - fell in up to his chest. This is a creek which by mid-August will probably be a rock-hop. After hearing that news, we changed directions to hike off the JMT to another lake (Ediza) but were stopped by a swollen creek.

About one week ago, we were able to hike up to Mono Pass (after a cold creek crossing) which we reached after a few small snowfield crossings. And as recently as 2 days ago, we hiked in the Virginia Lakes north of Tuolumne (not the Lake Virginia on the JMT south of Reds Meadows) and got stopped before the pass to Summit Lake at about 10,500' by a long snowfield.

As reported, the waterfalls were flush. We did notice that in the 2 weeks, Yosemite Falls lost a little of its fullness but it was still spectacular.

tuswm
07-21-2011, 18:07
is the JMT hikeable yet? I leave tomorrow

tmcdaneld
07-26-2011, 20:47
We're making a go/nogo call on JMT from S. Lake/Bishop Pass to Mt. Whitney starting 8/5. Anyone have trail condition updates, especially regarding problem stream crossings and snow on passes (Mather, Forester, et al) in this section? Our crew could have instep crampons/yaktraks and poles along but is physically NOT up for long stretches of postholing or use of ice axes. Any current condition reports and/or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

ChinMusic
07-26-2011, 21:04
is the JMT hikeable yet? I leave tomorrowI just got done with an 8-day section. IMO your timing is perfect. Do expect skeeters.

tmcdaneld
07-27-2011, 17:13
Glad your trip went well. Can you pls provide some details on the passes & significant stream crossings you covered? Thanks!

PS We'll certainly have the headnets & DEET at the ready.

Blissful
07-27-2011, 20:59
If the mosqitoes are anything like we had in Yellowstone full body armor is needed, including hats, gloves (they love fingers and palms), long sleeves.

ChinMusic
07-27-2011, 22:14
The only passes I did were Donahue and Cathedral. Donahue was pure snow for the last 1K of gain (7/19) My daughter got to glacade for her first time. I'm sure it is near tame by now. Cathedral had just a bit of snow (7/20). Going down to Sunrise Lakes, from Sunrise Camp, was still 10-ft deep in places making route- finding tricky without GPS, sure it is fine now. North approach to Clouds Rest (7/20) was uneventful. Half dome (7/21) was uneventful. Skeeters are starting to bloom. Lower Sunrise Lake was hideous (7/19). I'm at Tahoe dayhiking today and getting eaten alive.

Pedaling Fool
07-28-2011, 08:33
Nearly August and this thread is still active; I guess we have a ready-made thread for the coming winter:D

tuswm
08-09-2011, 20:35
Just finished. Nothing to worry about. But muir pass was covered in snow. Those 6 miles took 6 hours. But mather was steep and icy. Lots of snow there still. But the the snow was so hard it was hard to kick steps in it. So steep. Many of the women were scared. Real scared. Some I tears. But everything was fine just slow going.

leaftye
08-11-2011, 02:31
Nearly August and this thread is still active; I guess we have a ready-made thread for the coming winter:D

I was doing trail work on the PCT/JMT near Mammoth Lakes until yesterday, and I kid you not, the ranger working with us had his skis packed in for our hitch that started on August 1st.

Helmuth.Fishmonger
08-11-2011, 16:38
I'm waiting another 7 weeks before I start - just to make sure the 2010 stuff is really gone ;)

schnikel
08-12-2011, 16:31
Leaving tomorrow for San Fran. Starting the hike from Glacier Point in the 15th. Seems like a lot of the snow has melted but I'm sure there's a lot left on some of the passes. I gues I'll see in a couple days!
Schnikel

tuswm
08-13-2011, 10:25
There is enough cupping that atheist if u fall u won't slide all the way down. The problem is the melt......high creeks. Well that Nd slow going six miles of snow around muir pass took about 7 hours.

ChinMusic
09-10-2012, 23:31
Time to worry about high water. This pic was taken just a few days ago, a few days south of Yosemite:

11744

Wired went back to the same place as this epic pic of Balls and Sunshine on the PCT in '11. What an amazing difference.

17408

Mountain Mike
09-10-2012, 23:40
It is amazing what a difference a few month or different years make. I attempted my thru in 95 & due to heavy snow year opted to skip around the sierras. When I got together with with one of the few that had pushed through & compared similar vistas it was amazing. My no CA pics were of snow & his were clear of it. By WA it went the other way.

Cookerhiker
09-11-2012, 08:14
I was in Yosemite both last summer and this one - quite a difference! Nevada Falls was still quite flush this year but Yosemite Falls was barely a trickle.