Tenting on Snow

[The Solemates]

Usually when tenting on snowpack, we try to scrape the layer of snow off to expose the layer of earth underneath. We try to get it as free from snow as possible before erecting our tent. This is sometimes a tedious chore, but we like to do it so that the heat from our own bodies does not melt the snow we lay on, and we wake up in a puddle.

With that being said, we have only not done this once. We simply set up our tent on the backside of Whitetop one time in about 10 inches of snow, without making much of a clearing. The next morning we were damp, either from condensation because it continued to snow during the night and I had to get up 3 times to clear the snow off the tent so it didnt collapse under the weight, or perhaps it was from water seeping through the floor of the tent. No matter how waterproof your tent, if you are laying in a puddle, it will find a way in. We have seen pictures of people setting their tent up on snow all the time, and it puzzles us.

What are your thoughts about this? How come sometimes you get wet, sometimes you don't? I presume it has something to do with the ambient temperature, but what is this critical temperature point where you dont get wet? Does it have to do with the humidity? Ie, tenting in a cold, dry climate will not be as problematic?

We are leaving in a week to do a winter 4 day hiking trip to Pisgah, NC, where we expect to see anywhere from 0-18" on the ground and temps around 0F.

[DebW]

I've done lots of camping in New England winters, where you are usually camping on several feet of snow. The procedure is to pack the snow under your tent by tromping around on it with snowshoes until you have a firm, level platform. Then wait about 30 minutes for the snow to firm up. You may want to tromp down a kitchen area and a path to the latrine while waiting. After these places you will use are tromped and firm, you can walk on them without snowshoes and without postholing. A tent set up on a snow platform should not get wet inside unless it leaks or you are having condensation problems. Try to maintain some ventillation but you will probably get some condensation anyway - hopefully frost and not liquid water if the temperature is cold enough. If it's snowing, make sure that the tent fly doesn't contact the tent inner wall and keep the air space between the fly and the ground open. If you are waking in a puddle, you probably have a tent floor that isn't waterproof and foam pads that aren't thick enough. When you take down your tent, look at the spot you were sleeping on. If the snow has turned to ice, you need a thicker pad.

[Glee]

When you take down your tent, look at the spot you were sleeping on. If the snow has turned to ice, you need a thicker pad.
I'm a little confused. You want a thicker pad so that it melts the ice under you? I've heard this before about what type of pad to use on the snow and what to look for when you get up but no one ever explained what is taking place.

Thanks

[Blue Jay]

I'm a little confused. You want a thicker pad so that it melts the ice under you? I've heard this before about what type of pad to use on the snow and what to look for when you get up but no one ever explained what is taking place.

Thanks

Deb's advice is right on the money. The pad is to insulate your body heat so it does not melt the snow under you.

[Kerosene]

A thicker pad (ideally closed cell), or alternatively several pads, will provide more insulation which will keep your body heat from melting the snow underneath you (as well as keep you warmer).

[TJ aka Teej]

The procedure is to pack the snow under your tent by tromping around on it with snowshoes until you have a firm, level platform. Then wait about 30 minutes for the snow to firm up. You may want to tromp down a kitchen area and a path to the latrine while waiting. After these places you will use are tromped and firm, you can walk on them without snowshoes and without postholing.
I only tent on the snow two or three times a winter, but I'm sure my camp will be better when I follow Deb's advice to tromp down with snowshoes (instead of my boots) and to wait for the pad to set up (instead of hurrying to pitch asap). Some things I did learn long ago: not get in the tent until I cool down to keep excess condensation off the walls and out of the sleeping bag, to use foam pads instead of inflatables, and to leave wet clothes/socks I don't intend to wear again outside. Digging down to bare ground - too much work and probably too muddy, by my lights.

[The Solemates]

Digging down to bare ground - too much work and probably too muddy, by my lights.

Its never been muddy for us. The ground is usually completely frozen.

Great advice everyone. For the record, we have not camped on "several feet of snow" that DebW talks of. We usually camp in the South in the winter, where snow is typically 2 feet or less, depending on the year. Thats why we "dig down" instead of "stomp down."

[Blue Jay]

Its never been muddy for us. The ground is usually completely frozen.

Great advice everyone. For the record, we have not camped on "several feet of snow" that DebW talks of. We usually camp in the South in the winter, where snow is typically 2 feet or less, depending on the year. Thats why we "dig down" instead of "stomp down."

Her advice works just as well for 2 feet. There is a geat deal of air in snow, even packed snow. It has much more insulation than frozen ground which only sucks heat.

[DebW]

How do you anchor your tent to the ground after removing the snow? Frozen ground doesn't take tent stakes very easily. Stakes are easily held in snow by burying them horizontally and allowing the snow to refreeze around them. With less than a foot of snow, there may be no good way to provide anchors, short of tying to bushes. The deep snow is great for hiding the rocks and making the sleeping more comfortable. You can even level your tent site, or camp on slopes you wouldn't dream of sleeping on in summer.

[Mags]

If you have the time, you can make a snow shelter. Snow caves are fairly easy to make if you can find a drift large enough. Snow caves can be very toasty in the winter. Quinsees (sp?) can be done if you do not find large enough snow drifts as well.

If you are ambitious, make an igloo!

http://gallery.backcountry.net/cowint04?&page=8


FWIW I find two foam pads in winter work very well. Others like the combo of a thermarest and a foam pad.

If you look further on in the above photos, you will see a great way to winter camp: a backcountry hut with wood stove, propane tanks and solar batteries for lights at night.
:)

[orangebug]

I don't think you can make a snow shelter, even in the Smokies down South.

I didn't even think of trying to do my tent in the March 2001 blizzard in the Smokies. I took my lumps and stayed in the shelter, even when finding frozen mice.

I understand the way to peg a tent in snow is to take a baggie or small sack, fill it with rocks or ice and bury it in the snow as deep as possible. Pour water on it to freeze in place. Or tie up to a large fallen branch and bury it in the snow.

[Mags]

I don't think you can make a snow shelter, even in the Smokies down South.


Ah. Did not realize the locale of the poster. Having done my initial winter camping in NH and do my current camping in Colorado, take for granted higher snow levels. Next time will notice the poster is from TN. :)

[Glee]

I've been reading some interesting stuff on hanging the hammock between 2 trees and digging a trench so the hammock sits inside the trench. I'm not sure if it sits on the snow it's self or not.. Anyway, a nice way to keep the wind off and keep some of the heat in as well.

[Footslogger]

This thread brought back a funny memory from my thru-hike in 2003. There were 4 or 5 of us hiking late in the afternoon just north of Wayah Bald. The snow had fallen all day so we knew we were gonna have to set up camp in it. There were no shelters in hikeable distance so we found a rather level spot among some trees and started to pitch our tents. We were exhausted and everyone pretty much just cooked dinner and crashed. We woke up the next morning and after a quick breakfast started to take down our tents. Underneath each of our tents you could see the outline of our bodies where the snow had melted. It kinda looked like a police crime scene with bodies outlined in chalk on the ground.

Anyway ...it was a good memory and I'm glad this thread made me think of it.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[minnesotasmith]

"How do you anchor your tent to the ground after removing the snow? Frozen ground doesn't take tent stakes very easily"

True enough about frozen ground and stakes. Several options:

1) If you have a wood-fueled campfire (so you don't mind using the fuel) and snow to melt (so you don't mind using the water), you can pour hot water onto soil, and melt it to a depth it will accept and hold a stake. If after the first time you pour hot water onto frozen soil you want to melt you dig out a depression so that it will tend to "hold" future pourings, it will work faster/more efficiently.

Note that you may need to remelt the ground to retrieve your stake. Thus, you should allow fuel and time to do this, and metal stakes (that won't be subject to melting from having hot/boiling water poured on them) are preferred over plastic for this technique.

2) If there're no convenient trees/bushes/exposed roots around, try tying tentlines to large heavy objects (that you can move as needed) instead of staking. Any guy should be able to move a rock of 50# or so weight (roll it or drag it if you can't dead lift it), and it'll take a heck of a wind to roll those around.

3) Alternatively, take a halfway long branch, tie your tent line to that, and put gravel/pieces of ice (like large icicles) on top of it. If the temps are coming anywhere near freezing, any snow you compact on that gravel/branch can melt and refreeze, holding it down better.