View Full Version : washing your hands??
blazinbrush
11-22-2002, 15:50
I recently read an interesting thread at thru-hiker.com. It was originally about filters, but it got into giardia. I'm really starting to believe that giardia (if it's even properly diagnosed as such) is caused more by poor hygiene (washing hands after wiping and before cooking), than poor filtering. Personally, this is starting to become a bigger concern for me than what I should use to treat my water. I'm certainly going to think twice before reaching into someone else's GORP and letting them reach into mine.
So, what do you all use to wash your hands? The thru-hiker.com thread recommended alcohol gels or a weak bleach solution. They link to a good article. In case you haven't read it, here is the Sierra Nevada Giardia Paper (http://lomaprieta.sierraclub.org/pcs/articles/giardia.asp).
Also, here's the link to the thru-hiker.com thread (http://www.thru-hiker.com/anyboard/forum1/posts/1081.html).
blazin'brush
Lone Wolf
11-22-2002, 16:23
I think the potential for ingesting giardia from untreated water is highly hyped and pretty rare. In 16,000 miles hiked I've NEVER filtered or treated any water. Never gotten sick either. I never met anyone with a DIAGNOSED case of giardia. Lots of folks will claim to have it cuz they get the ****s or cramps. Probably from bad food and/or sharing gorp etc. with filthy paws like blazinbrush suggests.
I just wash with plain water. No soap when on the trail. I don't share food either.
Hammock Hanger
11-22-2002, 16:37
I never had any troubles at all on that end. I used an alcohol gel after every bathroom run and before eating (when I remembered) and before cooking. HH
SGT Rock
11-22-2002, 17:43
As I understand giardia, the parasite takes about two weeks to gestate and couse problems, but every time I hear someone talk about how they caught it, they always attribute it to something they did that day. Most likely they contracted a stomach virus and not giardia.
I only know of one person actually diagnosed with giardia, and he was in the Peace Corps when he got it. As I understand it, the Peace Corps considers giardias a good thing compared to some of the bugs yu can get out there.
Simply stated, I suspect that the water gets blamed for all sickness out there on the trail.
And also, personal hygene typically doesn't happen out on the trail. So, the easiest way to stay healthy is to never share your water bottle, wash you hands, and don't allow others to put their hands into your gorp bags. Sounds like you can learn everything you ever needed to know in kindergarden.
gravityman
11-22-2002, 18:21
My wife had some pretty rough intestinal problems on trail. I could go into details, and will if people are interested. It was diagnosed as giardia in that last town in Tenn where Kincora is (can't remember name of town). The doc gave her 7 doses of Flagel (sp). Unforunately, it didn't go away for long. She was sick again shortly there after. It really sapped her energy, as she had sudden urges about 7-9 times a day, usually about 10 min after eating. It was one of the main reasons we got off trail (of course it took us another 600 miles before we finally gave in, and it was actually her feet that brought her to her knees, quite literally).
Anyway. Before we left the trail we went and had a full workup. No spores were found. In fact, no bugs at all (she had a pretty complete diagnostic done on her stool. One of the funniest things I have ever heard was when she came out after collecting her 'sample.' "DONE and DONE!") She was still having problems three months later. Went for another stool checkup because we didn't have much faith in the doc that did it the first time and we had health insurance by this time. Again it came back clean.
Her symptoms were sudden urges, painful cramps after eating green leafy veggies, mucus, and probably some other things that I can't remember. Stool was always very very soft, usually runny. Nice huh? Made for great conversations around dinner (you know thru hikers!)
We started off treating our water with iodine. We quit after a week, and just drank the water straight. We now treat everything with Aqua Mira.
So, to be safe, we will always treat our water because its our best guess at what made her sick.
Just because you don't get sick doesn't mean you don't have giardia. It never affects some people. Some people get sick, get better, but still have it. They can even relapse.
There is a lot of misinformation out there about giardia. The symptoms seem to vary quite a bit too... But it can ruin your thru-hike!
If anyone has any other sources of info about giardia, I would love to hear it, or any other guesses at what made my wife sick.
Gravityman
Bulldawg
09-16-2009, 14:21
I just wash with plain water. No soap when on the trail. I don't share food either.
Yeah, sharing food and food prep areas is where most trail illnesses originate!:eek::rolleyes:
Jester2000
09-16-2009, 14:35
While I do treat my water, I've come to pretty much the same conclusion. I noticed that almost everyone on the PCT used hand sanitizer and wet wipes, many wore gloves while hiking, few people shared food, and few people shook hands when meeting. There seemed to be fewer instances of illness out there, which was pretty surprising considering some of the water sources we used.
The instances of illness that did occur happened en mass in towns, particularly at trail angels' houses. While some thought they had all been food poisoned, I suspect that the real reason was that they were actually LESS likely to clean their hands in town, and MORE likely to be sharing food (communal bags of chips and whatnot) and pipes.
I nonetheless continue to treat my water, just to be safe. The (unseen at the time) dead rat in the fire tank taught me that lesson. There was also a breakout of a horrible water-borne illness in hikers passing through one section in the Sierra (near Cow Creek) a couple of years ago. The many hikers affected had not hiked together, so it wasn't cross-contamination. So I treat because while rare, tainted water is still a possibility.
While I do treat my water, I've come to pretty much the same conclusion. I noticed that almost everyone on the PCT used hand sanitizer and wet wipes, many wore gloves while hiking, few people shared food, and few people shook hands when meeting. There seemed to be fewer instances of illness out there, which was pretty surprising considering some of the water sources we used.
More and more people, outdoor groups (hell..even an REI pamphlet!) are stating this as well.
I won't get into that stupid water treatment argument.
I'll just say that basic sanitation will probably do more to prevent GI illness than water treatment.
Treat your water when in doubt...but pay attention to Jester's very good points, too.
toothpick
09-16-2009, 15:23
I used a small bottle of hand cleaner that I bought at Dicks' Sporting Goods that worked well. It required no towel to dry with so it was a good lightweight solution.
garlic08
09-16-2009, 16:24
The only diagnosed case of giardia I've ever met was my boss's wife whose idea of roughing it was the Holiday Inn. She probably got it from the municipal water system, a bad case of luck.
The comment above about PCT hikers being more hygenic is my observation as well. I was grossed out at the filth I saw on the AT, like the wads of used tp around the shelters, or like the hiker who came up to the shelter in CT bragging about his last shower in PA and complaining about having the squirts for the last couple of days--a real walking cesspool. So two of his old friends are so happy to see him they shake his hand. I'm sure they blamed the water if they got sick and will buy a steripen next time.
I'm sure they blamed the water if they got sick and will buy a steripen next time.
It glows..costs $80 and is high-tech. It must work!
Soap is $1 (and water/friction is free), doesn't glow and is very low-tech. Doesn't do a darn thing. :)
garlic08
09-16-2009, 17:11
I forgot to add that I wash my hands with plain water and pine needles or sand if available. In the desert, I rub vigorously on sage, which smells great. I heard somewhere from a medical pro that handwashing is as much mechanical as it is chemical.
ChinMusic
09-16-2009, 17:26
A combination of hand washing and not being in the habit of touching your face with your hands between washings, goes a LONG way in avoiding a medley of maladies.
Rocket Jones
09-16-2009, 19:23
At work one day someone asked me if my mom was a nurse. How did they know? By the way I washed my hands in the bathroom.
drastic_quench
09-16-2009, 19:33
Alcohol gel is commonly available in every gas station and grocery store in convenient small bottles. Perfect for hikers.
Bulldawg
09-16-2009, 19:44
Alcohol gel is commonly available in every gas station and grocery store in convenient small bottles. Perfect for hikers.
Exactly what I carry on the trail.
I can't say that I ever met a hiker that was diagnosed with giradia but that's because they never got any diagnosis at all.
Panzer
Blissful
09-16-2009, 20:05
I got a stomach flu bad on the trail at Lakes of the Clouds Hut - but I think it was food. Violent stuff.
Fiddleback
09-17-2009, 11:03
I'm a big believer in hand washing on the trail. I also believe in apple pie and other good American stuff!:D
A quick internet search will refresh memories about all the giardia outbreaks in various towns and cities in the U.S. and other countries. In fact, such outbreaks have caused changes in some municipal water treatment systems. While giardia was sometimes traced to the water, there were other cases that quite clearly pointed to inadequate personal hygiene...day care centers and dirty diapers come to mind.
But consider...in all these cases treated water was present. They all had 'clean' water from their provider. Perhaps the treatment wasn't sufficient or perhaps the water was contaminated in transport but in many cases 'hygiene' was the cause and the solution.
FB
Hikes in Rain
09-17-2009, 11:58
I've said it before, civil engineers who design and build water and sewer treatment systems have done far more to promote human health than doctors. Of course, they also richly deserve their fair share of institution jokes.
ChinMusic
09-17-2009, 12:15
I've said it before, civil engineers who design and build water and sewer treatment systems have done far more to promote human health than doctors. Of course, they also richly deserve their fair share of institution jokes.
No question.
In war, historically, FAR more casualties have come from disease than trauma.
In the Army it is the veterinary docs who have the wartime duty of keeping the water supply safe, or at least they did when I was in.