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Different Socks
12-31-2010, 15:32
I grew up during the days of bragging about how much gear a person was carrying or could carry. Now with the movement for going ultralite in full swing(several years now) I am wondering how many others, like me, are still out there that refuse to go ultralite?
To be fair, I am getting older and I do see the sense in lightening up one's pack weight, but there are certain things I refuse to not carry with me. An example: Unless it is a short day hike, I always will carry fuel, a pot and stove to have a hot lunch and/or a hot dinner no matter what the weather, temps or other factors.
I am not asking for a debate here, just an answer to what category you fit in: Old school weekend backpacker carrying 30+ pounds or new school weekend backpacker/hiker carrying 15 pounds, or somewhere in between?:-?

Please do not include your answer if you only go out for day hikes. Thank you.

Lone Wolf
12-31-2010, 15:41
i'm old school.

CrumbSnatcher
12-31-2010, 15:49
external
water filter
carry my dogs gear
pack weighs what ever it weighs
i might of rode the short bus:D
but im old school:cool:

Phreak
12-31-2010, 15:50
New school here. I don't see the point in carrying 30+ pounds if I can carry 15 pounds and have the same comfort level. I'm not an extremist with my pack weight but I do prefer carrying a lighter load.

Phreak
12-31-2010, 15:50
i rode the short bus to the old school
.... lol ...

CrumbSnatcher
12-31-2010, 15:59
just cause i can carry a ****load without blinking an eye! doesn't mean i always do:-?you learn as you go!
there are these two bulls that were up on a hill,overlooking the valley.
the young bull says"lets RUN down there and screw a cow?"
the older wiser bull said '' no, lets WALK down there and screw them all!'';)
short bus hall of fame member
-----------------------------

CrumbSnatcher
12-31-2010, 16:23
the gear i use was considered lighter/new school in 1998 or so
does that count:-?:D

Joshuatree
12-31-2010, 16:28
I"m a mix, I'll lighten up as much as I can but I still carry a few luxury items. And it also depends on when and why I'm hiking.

CrumbSnatcher
12-31-2010, 16:34
I"m a mix, I'll lighten up as much as I can but I still carry a few luxury items. And it also depends on when and why I'm hiking.
i like this response
i think everyones kinda of a mix, i wear an external frame but i don't have a cast iron skillet:eek:
and it does depend on where and when and why

Half Note
12-31-2010, 16:50
When I am hiking I don't consider myself a ultralighter. I refuse to pay the price for the ultralight gear. I'll hike with 30+ pounds if it saves me hundreds of dollars in the end.

Different Socks
12-31-2010, 16:58
Thanks for responses so far!
Ok, I'm not saying old school is carrying a coffee pot and cast iron skillet. It just seems that all that matters to people I meet is "how little are you carrying?" and you're an idiot for carrying so much. I know there are those out there that can be comfy carrying the bare minimum and allowing a certain level of discomfort, but where does it end?

If I was answering this OP, I would be a mix of both: Some items have gotten lighter, some have stayed the same, hopefully none have gotten heavier. In the end I'd rather have the little extra weight at the end of the day.

10-K
12-31-2010, 16:58
Middle of the road with a downward trend as I learn.

SouthMark
12-31-2010, 16:59
I'm a minimalist, not an ultralighter but that usually translates to light. I don't get to brag about how much weight I can carry but my knees thank me and that's all the admiration I need. And that was true thirty years ago before ULTRALIGHT was a buzz word.

DavidNH
12-31-2010, 17:01
Definitely old school here. I always have 30 + lbs on weekend backpacks.


Always seems to me those with the real light packs are the fastest get the trip over quick folks.

David

Different Socks
12-31-2010, 17:02
BTW, it's good to know there are still some external frame users out there. I'm used to shouldering a Camp Trails Omega pack. I still have one and used it on every over night for the last 25 years. But empty it is a hefty 7 pounds, so I will trade down for a lighter pack with a similiar capacity. Problem with I-frames is that there only a few models out there that have external pockets and i hate having everything in one big sack on my back.

form
12-31-2010, 17:02
i'm training with 33 lbs in the sack now and doing 20 min miles on the flats,up to 5 miles 5 days a week.i'm worried that i might hit 40 lbs in my sack before i'm done packing.i'm 66 y/o weight 200 5ft 10,i accidendly went for a hike with 39 lbs and it hurt.i just figured how to adjust my pack to fit better so the sholder straps aren't cutting into me,ha.i'm learning the hard way.i switched to a thick wool blend sock with after market insoles and got instant blisters.i bought convertible pants and it got hot today and found out that the bottoms won't slip over my boots.bought a pack on ebay and then figured out that its a womans size after breaking my back.had to use a shoehorn to get my sleeping bag in the bottom of pack then seen a pic of a hiker with it mounted below the pack,ha.slow learner here guys.pray for me.traderjoe

Hikes in Rain
12-31-2010, 17:03
Old school trending toward new. I like lightening up my pack, but some luxuries, like a coffee pot (!) simply cannot be discarded by civilized folks!

Different Socks
12-31-2010, 17:04
Definitely old school here. I always have 30 + lbs on weekend backpacks.


Always seems to me those with the real light packs are the fastest get the trip over quick folks.

David

Hear! Hear!:D

sbhikes
12-31-2010, 17:08
There's no reason you can't carry a stove and fuel for a hot meal and still be lightweight. There's also no reason you can't slow down and savor every minute of the wilderness and still be lightweight. The only reason you see lightweight hikers hiking fast and finishing early is because there aren't too many heavyweight hikers who can do that. Lightweight hiking also lets me get further in than I ever could carrying heavy weight. So who is savoring more of the wilderness? The old me who could only get to the same campsites as all the annoying boyscout troops and college partiers or the new me who can get way out there where there are only condors and bears?

Different Socks
12-31-2010, 17:09
i'm training with 33 lbs in the sack now and doing 20 min miles on the flats,up to 5 miles 5 days a week.i'm worried that i might hit 40 lbs in my sack before i'm done packing.i'm 66 y/o weight 200 5ft 10,i accidendly went for a hike with 39 lbs and it hurt.i just figured how to adjust my pack to fit better so the sholder straps aren't cutting into me,ha.i'm learning the hard way.i switched to a thick wool blend sock with after market insoles and got instant blisters.i bought convertible pants and it got hot today and found out that the bottoms won't slip over my boots.bought a pack on ebay and then figured out that its a womans size after breaking my back.had to use a shoehorn to get my sleeping bag in the bottom of pack then seen a pic of a hiker with it mounted below the pack,ha.slow learner here guys.pray for me.traderjoe

Sounds like me waaaaaay back in 1987 when I hadn't done a single overnight mile. I had a big canister stand up stove, a cotton bag tied to the bottom of a travel pack with plastic cord, an aluminum BS pot that tipped at the handle every time i tried to pick it up, a 1/2 dz plastic egg holder, and on and on. I think back to it now--"what a greenhorn!" But at the time I was having the time of my life!!!:banana

rjjones
12-31-2010, 17:17
New school.At least as close to new as i can get{30lb or less}.I have a herniated disc and figure i'll give up some luxuries in order to spend an extra day or two on the trail.Seems to be working so far.RJ

Luddite
12-31-2010, 17:27
I'll hike with 30+ pounds if it saves me hundreds of dollars in the end.

Ultralight gear isn't more expensive. If anything , its cheaper.

Tinker
12-31-2010, 17:32
Five days in October with 30 lbs. in Pennsylvania. I consider it right for me. I travel a bit lighter in summer and a bit (sometimes QUITE a bit) heavier in winter. I quit bragging either way.

Torch09
12-31-2010, 18:03
Ultralight gear isn't more expensive. If anything , its cheaper.


I agree, to a certain extent. My alky stove was practically free, but my new down sleeping bag cost a pretty penny.

The key is to go with a minimalist mindset. Less gear should mean less money. I hate to think about all the cash I've wasted over the years buying things just because the tag said 'ultralight.'



But back to the OP... when I'm hiking, my goal is to unburnden my life, so naturally I try to go as light as reasonably possible. Minimalism is the real old school.

SouthMark
12-31-2010, 18:08
In my earlier post I forgot to choose old school or new school. Well I choose old school, Emma Gatewood old school or John Muir old school.

58starter
12-31-2010, 18:14
I think the debate should be fulled loaded pack weight vs. personal weight. I agree if you weigh 90lbs you should only carry a 15lb pack. If you weight over 200 I see nothing wrong with a 30+ pack. I carry the 30+ so you see where I stand.

SMSP
12-31-2010, 18:23
Just did an overnighter at 37 pounds. I had some cold gear for this trip. Looks like I'm old school according to your initial post.

SMSP

Tinker
12-31-2010, 18:26
Five days in October with 30 lbs. in Pennsylvania. I consider it right for me. I travel a bit lighter in summer and a bit (sometimes QUITE a bit) heavier in winter. I quit bragging either way.

Btw: that weight was from the skin out (FSO). Included 40 oz. water, too.
I'm still not bragging, though. :D

Speakeasy TN
12-31-2010, 18:40
I"m a mix, I'll lighten up as much as I can but I still carry a few luxury items. And it also depends on when and why I'm hiking.

Oh I rode the short bus but......

I'm not willing to sleep cold for a few ounces. I'll spend for better food. My alcohol stove may save some weight but boy I like the Jetboil! This is supposed to be fun!!!!!

Old Hiker
12-31-2010, 18:44
Depends - I used to be a kitchen sink kind of backpacker, just in case, but I'm trying to lighten up as I (un)gracefully mature. If the wife is with me, I'm carrying 50 lbs or so. I've gone to a hammock, looking for a lighter syn bag (not sure if I can keep a down bag dry) and have gone to a Pocket Rocket a while back. Every time my Scout Troop does a section hike, I look at what I used vs what I didn't and start discarding.

That being said: I'm still hanging onto my JanSport Alaska Tall pack - 6.5 pounds or so internal.

hikerboy57
12-31-2010, 18:49
I"m a mix, I'll lighten up as much as I can but I still carry a few luxury items. And it also depends on when and why I'm hiking.
Anyone can lighten their load without becoming overly obsessive. Lighter is always better, but why give up items you'd like to have with you, as long as you can handle the extra weight.HYOH.

Point Man Chef
12-31-2010, 18:53
Middle of the road with a downward trend as I learn.

+1 with 10-K here on this one. And like crumbsnatcher I use external frame too. It's an old AlpineLite! Looking to get a new one and that one will be external frame as well. I think external just screams OLD SCHOOL! Like others I'm not carrying a dutch oven or anything but I will lighten the load where I see I can. Got a new cook system for Christmas!! No titanium. So I guess there is a price I will pay, or not pay, to be lighter. There is a lot of practical ideas here on WB that I have used to lighten the load. Some may call them "ultralight" inspired but there are some that just make sense when you are carrying your house on your back! Great post!!!

SouthMark
12-31-2010, 19:03
"The more I carry, the more I enjoy camping; the less I carry, the more I enjoy hiking. So with that in mind, are you going camping or hiking?"
... SGT. ROCK

Toolshed
12-31-2010, 19:05
Back around 1997 the Rochester Democrat & Chronicle did a news story about utlralight & fastpacking and yours truly was a feature (although I hadn't completely converted to UL), I had graduated to a sub-2lb sleeping bag, an ultralight bivy, small tarp and from a whisperlight to a trangia stove and carried everything in a 3,000 CI pack. I still remember the writer had compared and contrasted me against to 2 regular backpackers with typical heavier gear - They made a comment "...about going slower and desiring to stop and see the scenery and that going faster and lighter didn't make sense as you simply couldn't take time to enjoy the scenery." My comment back was that traveling utralight you may not spend as much time at every spot, but you see a lot more scenery...
I still feel that way and thoughI am not ultralight by many standards, I still try to keep my total pack weight (not FSO) for 3-4 night trips under 26-28 lbs.

Harrison Bergeron
12-31-2010, 19:13
Ultralight gear isn't more expensive. If anything , its cheaper.

The only thing that really gets the weight down is an 800 fill summer-weight bag, a single-wall tarp-tent, a specialty UL pack (with no padding or pockets), a half-size Neo-air mattress, a $200 puffy jacket instead of a $30 fleece, and a pop-can stove. Total savings -- about 10 pounds.

The only thing on that list that's cheap is the pop-can stove. But after you add the fuel and paraphernalia that goes with it, it's actually not any lighter than a Jetboil -- which, of course, no self-respecting ultralighter would ever be seen with.

Cutting tags and leaving stuff behind is a joke. The sum total of all the "luxury" stuff in my pack that a UL guy would leave at home (i.e., first aid, the handle on my toothbrush, a towel, water filter, compass and map, a change of clothes, and other silly useless stuff) comes to about 5 pounds.

Luddite
12-31-2010, 19:34
The only thing that really gets the weight down is an 800 fill summer-weight bag, a single-wall tarp-tent, a specialty UL pack (with no padding or pockets), a half-size Neo-air mattress, a $200 puffy jacket instead of a $30 fleece, and a pop-can stove. Total savings -- about 10 pounds.

The only thing on that list that's cheap is the pop-can stove. But after you add the fuel and paraphernalia that goes with it, it's actually not any lighter than a Jetboil -- which, of course, no self-respecting ultralighter would ever be seen with.

Cutting tags and leaving stuff behind is a joke. The sum total of all the "luxury" stuff in my pack that a UL guy would leave at home (i.e., first aid, the handle on my toothbrush, a towel, water filter, compass and map, a change of clothes, and other silly useless stuff) comes to about 5 pounds.

At least most of the the ultralight gear is made in the US and not Vietnam...

Skidsteer
12-31-2010, 19:50
When I am hiking I don't consider myself a ultralighter. I refuse to pay the price for the ultralight gear. I'll hike with 30+ pounds if it saves me hundreds of dollars in the end.

That makes perfect financial sense right up until you get your first bill from an orthopedic surgeon.

garlic08
12-31-2010, 19:52
I'm ultra light now, with a base weight of just under 10 pounds. I wouldn't be hiking at all any more if not for the light load, so for me it's not even an option. My knees and ankles could no longer carry a 40 pound load more than a few miles a day, so thru hikes were out of the question.

I support the lighter is cheaper model, except for the bag, but then you have a very high quality bag which is never a bad thing. Sometimes they go on sale, like my Marmot Helium for $180. My tarptent is $200 list, my 9 ounce pack was $80 on sale, my Marmot jacket was $80 on sale, my pad is one-half a Z-rest at $20. You don't need to carry a Neo-air or $200 jacket. I don't carry a cook kit, water filter, multitool, GPS or any other electronics. My entire AT kit cost about $850, and it was the same stuff I carried on the PCT and CDT. So it has been very cheap per mile hiked. And very comfortable.

I consider my load to be at the minimum weight for my skill level. I'll never carry any more weight, and nobody should carry less than they need for a good hike.

wrongway_08
12-31-2010, 19:54
Just like everything else in life, less = more. Guess thats makes me ultra light. Try to keep it around the 20 pound mark total.

4eyedbuzzard
12-31-2010, 20:56
Getting lighter 40 - 45 was pretty normal with 3 days food and water back in the 70's. I'm down to 18 base weight in the summer, under 25 with food and water. My back thanks me.

Plodderman
12-31-2010, 22:04
I am old school and have never bought into the ultralite stuff or the cost of such items. I do a good amount of hiking every summer and including 100 to 200 miles of the AT.

BradMT
12-31-2010, 22:11
You tell me :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/brad300wsm/BradAvatar-1.jpg

Luddite
12-31-2010, 22:22
You tell me :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/brad300wsm/BradAvatar-1.jpg

Don't you know its irresponsible going that ultralight?

Roland
12-31-2010, 22:30
You tell me :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/brad300wsm/BradAvatar-1.jpg

Ayuh, there's a reason you need that cane!

Phreak
01-01-2011, 00:01
You tell me :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/brad300wsm/BradAvatar-1.jpg

Damn, that looks brutal to carry. :)


Here is my pack (GG Vapor Trail) during my JMT hike back in August.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/5/5/1/3/day_5__39.jpg

Tipi Walter
01-01-2011, 00:06
Heavy or light? You tell me.

http://www.trailspace.com/assets/a/b/f/39615/TRIP-115-449.jpg

Torch09
01-01-2011, 00:25
Heavy or light? You tell me.

http://www.trailspace.com/assets/a/b/f/39615/TRIP-115-449.jpg

... hard to tell. You could be carrying balloons

SouthMark
01-01-2011, 00:44
9804

March 1983 AT thru the Smokies, I'm the one in the middle with the little pack, 18 lbs best I remember.

medicjimr
01-01-2011, 02:09
I try to go light weight not ultra I am around 30 lbs with my hammock and tarp winter different story I use a pulk sled and may have 70 lbs but I don't hike as far each day as in other seasons either .

Snoring Sarge
01-01-2011, 04:38
I traded my Cast Iron 10" skillet for Stainless steel 4" skillet. So I guess I am UL now.

Grimelowe
01-01-2011, 11:36
I'm a middle-weight dude. I have a base pack weight around 13#, Skin-out weight of 18# before I add fuel food and water... But I hate being hungry or thirsty (and I always drink a lot), so I carry a lot of food and water which adds up quickly.

sbhikes
01-01-2011, 11:47
My pack in 1978
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5210/5312030447_1ebf32335c.jpg

Nowadays
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5203/5312029807_2bc19afc53.jpg

Much better now, but that foam pad was pretty comfy.

Tinker
01-01-2011, 11:48
Anyone can lighten their load without becoming overly obsessive. Lighter is always better, but why give up items you'd like to have with you, as long as you can handle the extra weight.HYOH.

Masochism is a strange form of pleasure! :):confused::rolleyes::D.

I'd leave it ALL home if I could!

I've never been an Airstream hiker.:cool:

Wise Old Owl
01-01-2011, 12:10
Which School is it? I dropped in pack weight to about 10lbs and traded a six pack for a spare 30lbs tire?:eek:

Just pokin fun at myself....

sir limpsalot
01-01-2011, 16:10
I buy the lightest PRACTICAL application of the gear i want and the gear i need (not necessarily the same). I eliminate redundant items (no lantern, i got a headlight-etc). I don't want to be cold, hungery or wet....but i don't want to bring home anything that I haven't used (repair kit and rainjacket excluded). I want my gear to be easy to use and reliable. I constantly look for significant gear developements to save weight, do the job better, etc. I spend whatever required for what I want (think backpacking gear is expensive? Try boating!). I use an aether 70 to carry my gear (the only thing allowed to hang on the outside is my crocs) in order to comfortably carry the load. All my ultra light purchases and my pack weighs 35# all-in. This after being Tucker-ized at last years aldha winter ruck. I love the new ultra-light gear now available, but old school oriented in my comforts i am!

ashleigh22
01-01-2011, 17:19
I try to go as light as possible so I can carry more FOOOD. :)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/seniamrej/hiking.jpgThis is in the Smokies '09. I didn't carry over 20 lbs. We went 118 miles that trip and still had too much food.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v241/seniamrej/?action=view&current=hiking.jpg

Old Hiker
01-01-2011, 17:23
My pack in 1978
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5210/5312030447_1ebf32335c.jpg

Nowadays
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5203/5312029807_2bc19afc53.jpg

Much better now, but that foam pad was pretty comfy.

You sure you just didn't grow into it? ;)

BradMT
01-01-2011, 20:23
Damn, that looks brutal to carry. :)

Honestly, not at all... all my gear is on the Light side of Ultralight... except my pack. UL packs are pathetically uncomfortable IME. I'd rather carry a 7lb pack with a real suspension and loose weight in every other area, than a 3lb pack with a phantom suspension.

Not all ounces are created equal...

BradMT
01-01-2011, 20:24
Ayuh, there's a reason you need that cane!

Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joshuatree
01-01-2011, 21:14
9808

Spring hiking along Lake Superior which can be unpredictable. Because of an ankle sprain I had to carry alot of extra gear this trip. I just got a smaller pack, so I retire this one to just early spring and late fall trips.

earlyriser26
01-01-2011, 21:39
I believe 30 lbs is light weight. My old standard weight was 50 lbs and I once started a hike in Maine with a 85 lb pack.

Half Note
01-02-2011, 01:25
Ultralight gear isn't more expensive. If anything , its cheaper.
Hasn't been my experience thus far. Sleeping bag, tent, pack - I spent bottom dollar. While some of the money savings is on quality, I still looked into lighter weight items and they were much more costly than what I'm willing to pay.

Sarcasm the elf
01-02-2011, 01:52
Suppose I fall into the "old school, but trimming down" group.

There's a lot of stuff I thought was essential in my boy scout days that I wouldn't consider carrying today. That said, I still like having a water filter, an extra can of isobutane and a decent first aid kit. My pack's usually in the 30-40lb range (which is lighter than my scout pack when I was in my early teens), however I know I could drop 5-10lbs of luxury/semi-essential items if I put my mind to it.

Sarcasm the elf
01-02-2011, 01:56
9804

March 1983 AT thru the Smokies, I'm the one in the middle with the little pack, 18 lbs best I remember.

External frame packs and blue jeans? Your friends in the photo are making me nostalgic!

Mags
01-02-2011, 23:19
I do multiple outdoor activities and have different gear.

For example, if I am on a hut trip, I haul in a 5 liter box of wine for 16 people.

If I am on a weekend backpack, the one liter is sufficient.

So, it all depends.

Thank you.

Bearpaw
01-02-2011, 23:38
I went ultalight for a while. Didn't care for it. Too much time claustrophobic under a postage stamp tarp fighting rain and bugs. Slept lousy. Itched a lot.

When I transitioned over to hammocks, my weight went up a bit. I carry about 13 pounds summer plus food, water, and fuel. Winter goes up to around 18 pounds +. So I typically carry low 20's to low 30's for a 4-day trip. Not ultralight, but it makes me happy both on trail and in camp.

And it's about 1/2 the weight I carried on my AT thru-hike a decade ago.

WILLIAM HAYES
01-03-2011, 03:42
everything one week-32 lbs-i have done much less weight with a tarp and a bivy and less clothing but was not comfortable

BradMT
01-03-2011, 10:01
So let me get this straight, what you guys are saying is being comfortable is more important than a little extra weight? A good night's sleep and comfort on the trail translates in to more well-being and energy despite a few additional pounds?

Shocking news :D

Johnny Thunder
01-03-2011, 10:12
my whittled 12 pound spring/summer/fall weight becomes 14 or 15 really easy when i start adding things like batteries and chargers. it's ok. the lower the weight the more booze and food i can carry.

i've added about a pound of clothing and a quarter pound to the bag in my through-hike kit since i've losing 10 pounds i didn't have.

Johnny Thunder
01-03-2011, 10:13
...since i've lost the ten pounds....man, it's late here.

SouthMark
01-03-2011, 10:57
everything one week-32 lbs-i have done much less weight with a tarp and a bivy and less clothing but was not comfortable

Everything for the 100 mile wilderness this past August (9 days) 22 lbs 13 oz.
Includes food water, hammock, under quilt, top quilt and rain fly. Partial resupply at White House Landing at mid-point. Was very comfortable.

hikerboy57
01-03-2011, 11:08
Its amazing we have to find labels and categories for everything. Iguess I'm middle school, generally carry around 30 lbs with food and water for 8 day hike. I thought about just a loincloth and Bowie knife, would would have to bring a pillow.

LoneRidgeRunner
01-03-2011, 11:14
I'm old school. If needed I am willing to suffer a little while walking in order to be safely comfortable in camp. I do most of my hiking in the colder months and head for the mountains so it's a four season tent that will fit me and all my gear inside (except for food) (A Mountain Hardwear Trango 2 which will be replaced with a MH EV2 when I can afford it for the lighter weight, but it's still a 4 season tent that will fit me and all my gear) I definitely do NOT take chances on not being prepared for very cold weather just to save a few pounds in my pack. I don't believe in turning a hike into a survival situation for the sake of a pound or 2 lighter pack.

LoneRidgeRunner
01-03-2011, 11:18
I believe 30 lbs is light weight. My old standard weight was 50 lbs and I once started a hike in Maine with a 85 lb pack.

On a Winter hike for 5 to 7 days my pack will usually be about 60 pounds. I have carried an 80 pounder though.

Tipi Walter
01-03-2011, 12:04
On a Winter hike for 5 to 7 days my pack will usually be about 60 pounds. I have carried an 80 pounder though.

For anyone who cares, there is a distinct difference between a 90 lb pack and an 80 lb pack. It's sort of like how Robert Falcon Scott talked about hiking in -50F versus hiking in -70F. It makes all the difference in the world.

Plus, when people talk about carrying light packs, they are mostly talking about Snippet Backpacking, that is, going out for short periods of time, like a 3 day weekend. I wish all weekends could be 15 days and every "weekend backpacker" would then have to carry 15 days of food and all else. Just the food and fuel load would approach 30-35 lbs.

Old Hiker
01-03-2011, 13:15
I went ultalight for a while. Didn't care for it. Too much time claustrophobic under a postage stamp tarp fighting rain and bugs. Slept lousy. Itched a lot.

When I transitioned over to hammocks, my weight went up a bit. I carry about 13 pounds summer plus food, water, and fuel. Winter goes up to around 18 pounds +. So I typically carry low 20's to low 30's for a 4-day trip. Not ultralight, but it makes me happy both on trail and in camp.

And it's about 1/2 the weight I carried on my AT thru-hike a decade ago.

Bearpaw,

What would you change if you did a thru-hike today? Would the weight go up again? Is there a thread or an article that might describe this?

Thanks.

Phreak
01-03-2011, 13:43
Plus, when people talk about carrying light packs, they are mostly talking about Snippet Backpacking, that is, going out for short periods of time, like a 3 day weekend. I wish all weekends could be 15 days and every "weekend backpacker" would then have to carry 15 days of food and all else. Just the food and fuel load would approach 30-35 lbs.
When I started my 2008 JMT hike, I was carrying 12.5 days of food and my pack weight was 44 pounds. Still relatively light in my book given the amount of food I was carrying.

Pony
01-03-2011, 15:07
I have a strange mix of gear. For instance, I carry an external frame that weighs almost six lbs. I also carry a homemade alcohol stove, a tarp, a one lb summer bag, no filter, very little in my first aid kit, etc. I've also been know to carry 20+ lbs of food, a six pack (or more), liter of whisky, fruit, a whole head of lettuce, a coffee press, external ipod speakers, and any numer of heavy items. Sometimes I think I cut pack weight to make room for things I like rather than need. All said though, my pack is usually around 40 lbs, but I am sure it has topped 60 several times. I stopped weighing my pack, because I am going to carry whatever is in there anyway, I'd rather not know how much it weighed.

Bearpaw
01-03-2011, 19:53
Bearpaw,

What would you change if you did a thru-hike today? Would the weight go up again? Is there a thread or an article that might describe this?

Thanks.

The biggest difference is that the basic gear I use now didn't exist then. My pack was 8 pounds empty. The tent was light at 4 pounds, synthetic sleeping bag at 3, thermarest at 2. Steel backpacking cook pot and a Whisperlite stove. Rain gear was 3 pounds +.

Today, my pack is either 3 or 4 pounds. Quilt and underquilt are under 2 pounds. Hammock and tarp are 3 pounds. Big four is 8-9 versus 17 back then. Stove is either esbit or cannister, saving 1-2 pounds. 4 ounce titanium pot versus 9-10 ounces for the old one. Frog Toggs jacket and nylon windpants at less than a pound. Pack weight for 4-5 days would be 25-30 pounds versus the 45-55 then.

But the real key is conditioning. All the debating in the world won't make a bit of difference about how you feel after 4-6 weeks on trail. I was in great shape having just come out of the Marine Corps, so carrying 57 pounds in Georgia felt pretty sweet, compared with the 85+ I usually carried (I always carried a radio in service). The climbing was more difficult than I expected (I came from Camp LeJeune on the Carolina Coast which is pancake flat). But a month in, you couldn't hold me back even with the heavy pack. Overanalyzing gear weight will only lead to analysis paralysis. Get out there and hike and your conditioning will take care of the weight.

If I thru-hiked today, my pack weight would go up a pound of two at first since I would likely carry most of a guidebook and several maps at first. I'd also carry more batteries, fuel, a wallet, probably more ibuprofen, etc. As I lost weight, especially body fat, my food weight would go up too. Otherwise, my gear would be about what I carry now.

SouthMark
01-03-2011, 20:57
For anyone who cares, there is a distinct difference between a 90 lb pack and an 80 lb pack. It's sort of like how Robert Falcon Scott talked about hiking in -50F versus hiking in -70F. It makes all the difference in the world.

Plus, when people talk about carrying light packs, they are mostly talking about Snippet Backpacking, that is, going out for short periods of time, like a 3 day weekend. I wish all weekends could be 15 days and every "weekend backpacker" would then have to carry 15 days of food and all else. Just the food and fuel load would approach 30-35 lbs.

I guess that I have been doing my two-three week section hikes all wrong with less than a 25 lb pack. Hell, I don't even have 35 or 45 lbs of gear total and certainly could not eat 45 to 55 lbs of food in two-three weeks and of course would not go that long without resupply.

Tipi Walter
01-03-2011, 21:42
I guess that I have been doing my two-three week section hikes all wrong with less than a 25 lb pack. Hell, I don't even have 35 or 45 lbs of gear total and certainly could not eat 45 to 55 lbs of food in two-three weeks and of course would not go that long without resupply.

A three week trip is 21 days. Have you ever carried three weeks of food? It comes to around 40 pounds including fuel if you're like me and want a wide variety of edibles. Most people consider two lbs of food per day to be reasonable, maybe more if you want to hump apples and avocados, etc. Plus, some of us go out to places where there isn't resupply or a store, and so in order to stay out w/o interruption we carry the extra weight without grumbling. The price of freedom. It all gets lighter as the trip goes forward. You could pull one of your three week section hikes off the AT and go into the Smokies or Cohutta or Pisgah or Slickrock or wherever else and then you may want and need to go that long without resupply. Why not? We've all been to a town.

There's always the opportunity to leave a BearVault food cache in the wilderness area you are traveling, and I always leave an emergency Thermarest cache(with an extra stove)just in case my pad blows out on a long trip. But leaving a food cache can be a headache and so lately I've been going without one and have no real problem in moving with 20 days worth of food.

Wise Old Owl
01-03-2011, 21:49
So let me get this straight, what you guys are saying is being comfortable is more important than a little extra weight? A good night's sleep and comfort on the trail translates in to more well-being and energy despite a few additional pounds?

Shocking news :D

hmmm - not quite... Sgt Rock switched for a cuban fiber tarp combined with a hammock and quilt combo thats about two pounds; on the Hammock Forum, I won't buy cuban fiber, but comfort is key... so yes I have reduced the big four.

Pommes
01-17-2011, 16:38
Ultralight gear isn't more expensive. If anything , its cheaper.


Used Alice Pack... $10 (Goodwill)
Used Swiss Alcohol Stove.... $4 (Army/Navy Store)
ECWS Sleeping Bag... Free (From my time in the Army)
Inflatable Sleeping Pad... Free (Found it on a trail)
Canvas Shelter Halves... $2 (Army/Navy Store)

Thats what i'm talking cheap.

Luddite
01-17-2011, 17:02
Used Alice Pack... $10 (Goodwill)
Used Swiss Alcohol Stove.... $4 (Army/Navy Store)
ECWS Sleeping Bag... Free (From my time in the Army)
Inflatable Sleeping Pad... Free (Found it on a trail)
Canvas Shelter Halves... $2 (Army/Navy Store)

Thats what i'm talking cheap.

Maybe I found my Neoair on the trail and got my Western Mountaineering Ultralight from my time spent in the Army. :D

I'm j.k. You can get used ultralight gear for cheap as well.

Mr. BuffaloMan
01-17-2011, 17:48
I'm old school. Pack weight 70lbs from Springer to Big K. I do think I will try to get down to 50 for next time.

sixguns01
01-17-2011, 17:56
Old pack-45lbs for everything
New Pack-22lbs for everything

Now I can carry more Jameson!

flemdawg1
01-19-2011, 11:33
A little of both. I have my Big 4 (shelter, pack, sleeping bag & pad) down fairly low. But still carry some convenience luxury items (Canister stove, camp shoes, ground cloth, steripen, a book or 2). Base weight ~12lbs.

Trailbender
01-19-2011, 12:48
For anyone who cares, there is a distinct difference between a 90 lb pack and an 80 lb pack. It's sort of like how Robert Falcon Scott talked about hiking in -50F versus hiking in -70F. It makes all the difference in the world.

Plus, when people talk about carrying light packs, they are mostly talking about Snippet Backpacking, that is, going out for short periods of time, like a 3 day weekend. I wish all weekends could be 15 days and every "weekend backpacker" would then have to carry 15 days of food and all else. Just the food and fuel load would approach 30-35 lbs.

No thanks, I carried gear weight like that in the Army and hated it. I could do it today, but it would serve no purpose. My pack weight is a little over 30 with 2L water and 5 days or so food. That is with a 0 degree bag, and winter ridgerest pad. I also have enough clothing to be comfortable standing around down to about 20, which is thermals, polypros, a down jacket, and gloves with a thick wool hat. I hike and overnight in the dead of winter where I live, which usually gets pretty close to zero. Not murderously cold compared to some places, but with a 30 lb pack I am very comfortable in camp as well.

I have carried heavy packs on hiking trips and it made the hike completely suck. There is a direct relationship between pack weight and hiking enjoyment. My question before I go light is "can this do the same thing for less weight". I also use a fully enclosed single tarptent year round. Yeah, it has condensation, but I just don't touch the tent walls. It is the same one I used on my thru, and have been through some pretty brutal rainstorms with no issues with it.

Another reason I am so careful with pack weight is I got severe tibial stress fractures in the Army from carrying so much gear. For fuel load, I use esbit tabs with a bent piece of sheet metal for the stove. 24+ burns for about 7 oz, with the stove. I am also really good at building a fire under very adverse conditions. For a long hike like you talk about, I would probably just take a couple esbit tabs and use fires to cook on. There is no way to avoid carrying a ton of food for the trips you mention, however.

Cookerhiker
01-19-2011, 13:32
Guess I'm old school but may have lost pack weight simply because most gear - not just "ultralight" - tents, stoves, and sleeping bags etc. have gotten lighter. I have no idea what my "base weight" is nor do I care.

I've been through quite an odyssey re. stoves. My first stove in the mid-70s was ultralight before things became "Ultralight." It was a burner in the middle of a saucer-like stove upon which your pot rested with a rubber cable connecting the burner to a butane canister. I forget why I moved away from this stove - all the subsequent ones were successively heavier (wrong direction!) until I bought my Coleman Ultralight canister for my JMT hike when it was necessary to cut down on bulk.

OTOH back in the early days, I didn't bring trekking poles or water treatment so I've added weight there.

Other ultralight faux pas: bringing extra clothes, two cooking pots, small pillow. I only replaced my external frame pack in '04 but I'm not certain my current Kelty Red Cloud is lighter than the old 1980-vintage external frame. But the new one is a better pack with the suspension system and having a sternum strap which the old one lacked.

I've been lectured at/preached to twice by ultralight-types, one subtly, one very pointedly i.e. "you should..."

Mags
01-19-2011, 15:16
I've been lectured at/preached to twice by ultralight-types, one subtly, one very pointedly i.e. "you should..."

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=118085&postcount=4

:)

Cookerhiker
01-19-2011, 15:54
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=118085&postcount=4

:)

Hah, I remember when you first posted that!:D

That story reminds me: I"m reading a book about John Muir right now. When he discovered glaciers in Yosemite (the first to do so), and proposed his theory that the Yosemite Valley was carved by glaciers, he was told to go back to his hiking and leave science to the "real" (read credentialed and degreed) scientists.

BradMT
01-20-2011, 11:17
The reason a packs suitable to long hiking range come in under 4lbs (and sometime well under) is they dispense with a bonafied suspension.

What price comfort?

An extra couple pounds for a real suspension that's comfortable may actually be lighter at the end of the day... not everything that is lightweight is actually lightweight... not every ounce and pound translates the same.

This whole fad of skimping on a packs suspension is a fools errand IMO. I'll cut and pare away every gram everywhere I can on all other gear, but not a a pack's suspension.

Just an observation from a guy that's carried internal frame packs exclusively since 1978...

chazaq
01-20-2011, 14:15
base weight 8 lbs. I only weigh about 160. i guess I am in the scout class.

Pony
01-20-2011, 14:19
base weight 8 lbs. I only weigh about 160. i guess I am in the scout class.

If you are who I think you are, I thought your stove weighed at least 8 lbs.:D

Different Socks
01-20-2011, 23:20
Heavy or light? You tell me.

http://www.trailspace.com/assets/a/b/f/39615/TRIP-115-449.jpg

Wow!! Looks like me when I did the AT back in 1992!! Can't believe with all the gear you are carrying, the dog is too.

Different Socks
01-20-2011, 23:28
[QUOTE I definitely do NOT take chances on not being prepared for very cold weather just to save a few pounds in my pack. I don't believe in turning a hike into a survival situation for the sake of a pound or 2 lighter pack.[/QUOTE]

Amen to that!

Northern Lights
01-21-2011, 00:03
I'm old school. I would like to lighten up but I do not compromise on sleep comfort and wine.

My pack is 30+ but has not exceeded 40, yet.

Stir Fry
01-21-2011, 00:10
If ultralight is so popular why do you see so few hiking for more then an overnighter. Granted I have only done about 1000 miles in 7 years, but in that time I have only see one. He had 15 lb. for a 3 day trip. Only thing that was impressive was the fact that he was going 70 miles. Got down to 35* the night before I saw him and he said he froze his butt off. He was flying though. Very small pk.

Different Socks
01-21-2011, 01:44
When all of you say what your pack weight is, is that with or without food and water?

Stir Fry
01-21-2011, 02:48
Base is without food water and fuel,

TheChop
01-21-2011, 03:36
You know sometimes I hear people talking about pack weight and I know some people genuinely carry that little but I can't help but think a lot of people aren't giving a proper and full measure of their weight. I'm sure on the big items they're right but once you add in this and that and this you get a much higher weight. I keep track of pack weight using a spreadsheet. My philosophy in making the spreadsheet is to add in everything I possibly can think of so the numbers on the sheet are the numbers on my back.

Firefighter503
01-21-2011, 18:16
Just got real measurements of all of my gear. 19.7 base weight for my Thru Hike. Keep in mind everything I own is XL (260 lbs, brick **** house build), including boots/shoes (13). I am pretty happy with where I am at right now.

SouthMark
01-21-2011, 18:34
You know sometimes I hear people talking about pack weight and I know some people genuinely carry that little but I can't help but think a lot of people aren't giving a proper and full measure of their weight. I'm sure on the big items they're right but once you add in this and that and this you get a much higher weight. I keep track of pack weight using a spreadsheet. My philosophy in making the spreadsheet is to add in everything I possibly can think of so the numbers on the sheet are the numbers on my back.

I use two measurements and have two scales. I have the digital postal scales to measure each item and enter into a spreadsheet and I have a digital hanging style scale. I weigh my pack after it is packed without and with food and water. I also include any items that I will be carrying in my pants pockets.

Pommes
01-21-2011, 19:49
I use two measurements and have two scales. I have the digital postal scales to measure each item and enter into a spreadsheet and I have a digital hanging style scale. I weigh my pack after it is packed without and with food and water. I also include any items that I will be carrying in my pants pockets.

You a hightech redneck. Roll tide roll.

Different Socks
01-21-2011, 20:06
Base is without food water and fuel,

So why brag about how little you are carrying when the 3 things missing can add 10 pounds or more?

garlic08
01-21-2011, 23:05
So why brag about how little you are carrying when the 3 things missing can add 10 pounds or more?

Because there's so much variation in food, water, and fuel weight over a hike. And lower base weight makes a lot of difference on the last day or two of the hike, at least for some. For people who care, base weight or "skin out" weight is a pretty good yardstick. For people who don't care, so what? Don't measure it and ignore those who do.

On the long Western trails, most hikers automatically refer to "base weight". On the AT, it's a different world, and "a full load of food and water" is usually added. What the heck is a "full load of food and water?" Pack everything you can't eat into your pack, then fill the rest of the room up with food and water? The only decent explanation I've ever heard is "who cares?"

I met a hiker on the AT who asked me how much my pack weighed. I told him it was under ten pounds without food and water. He looked confused and asked me how much that was with food and water. So I asked him how many pounds of food and how much water he wanted to add, and I would do the math for him. He continued to look confused. We just spoke different languages, I guess. But we were both enjoying our hikes so it really didn't matter.

Skidsteer
01-21-2011, 23:33
So why brag about how little you are carrying when the 3 things missing can add 10 pounds or more?

The idea is that a base weight is what you would carry regardless of the length of the trip so it doesn't vary much except you likely have a slightly different base weight in Winter vs. the other three seasons. It's a more consistent number so it makes for more useful comparison if you're into that sort of thing.

Food, water, and fuel(consumables)vary wildly according to trip length, resupply options, time of year, personal tastes etc. My Son will carry twice the weight in food that I do and eat all of it. It's almost pointless to try to pin an "average weight" to consumables.

JohnEbner
01-25-2011, 18:04
As time goes by and I gain more experience and better gear my base weight naturally gets lighter. Having a bad back pushes me to go lighter too. I don't strive to go ultralight and don't consider myself an ultralighter but with a base weight of less than 9 pounds I'm probably getting pretty close.

Espero
01-25-2011, 18:09
New school and my back thanks me.

Buffalo Skipper
01-25-2011, 18:21
A year ago, my pack was just under 40 lbs for a long weekend. I had issues, but accepted it. By a weird fluke, this past fall, I got a hammock, and ended up lightening my load (compared to the weight I had at the comfort level).

I took the same trip this a few weeks ago and was under 30 lbs. I have been carefully evaluating my weight and with some money to throw at the problem, I will drop another 6 pounds by next year (in replacing some specific gear).

With some more $$$, I hope to get my summer weight (including 3-4 days food) down to about 20-22 lbs.

I have a certain level of comfort I expect, but I am really very carefully scrutinizing each and every item I carry.

So to answer your question, I am now under 30 lbs, but I am not yet ultralight, nor do I really ever expect to be there.

One Half
01-27-2011, 20:37
I must have started out really old school! My first trip was 60+lbs with my workboots on. That was a killer. That was half my bodyweight! Last time I weighed my pack was years ago and it was 25lbs without food and water and tent/tarp (one of the benefits of hiking with my husband).