Black Clothes In Winter-Hidden Evil?

[sir limpsalot]

Just wonderin"....I keep hearing that wearing black in winter is a good idea because black absorbs heat. I presume the logic is that this additional heat absorbed from the environment improves the clothing's ability to keep you warm. Why wouldn't this black clothing (baselayers, layering tops) absorb additional heat from your body and lose it to the environment instead?

[grayfox]

Black and green absorb Radient heat from sunlight and are warm on yor skin if they are single layer-black tee shirt in summer for instance. They dry quicker when laid out in the sun but the same as other colors in the shade.

Heat from your body is more Convective heat loss warming the air around you and is not affected by the color of clothing unless it is silver lining like the new Columbia line of clothes--which Radiates body heat back to you--Go Figure!

[LoneRidgeRunner]

Just wonderin"....I keep hearing that wearing black in winter is a good idea because black absorbs heat. I presume the logic is that this additional heat absorbed from the environment improves the clothing's ability to keep you warm. Why wouldn't this black clothing (baselayers, layering tops) absorb additional heat from your body and lose it to the environment instead?

I think it depends on whether you are lounging around camp or streneously hiking as to whether or not black is a good idea. Example...you are carrying a pack up a steep trail and the black clothing is absorbing heat....It is also making you perspire more because of that absorbed heat and dampening your clothing which will make you colder in the long run. Wicking clothing can only wick so much after which you begin to get wet and colder. I wear light colored clothing (especially wicking tee shirts) any time I'm hiking. I sweat profusely so I have to be especially careful about clothing which absorbs heat. I will usually carry a pack up a mountain in 20 degree weather wearing nothing but trail pants and a white Patagonia Capilene silk weight long sleeved wicking tee shirt unless there is considerable wind, at which time I may add just a Mountain Hardwear trail shirt. But I always have a wind proof jacket handy for rest stops of more than just a few minutes. Different people have different metabolisms so this may not work for every one.

[birdog]

All of my winter clothing is black. If I get too warm during a hike I just shed a layer or two. The color black does absorb heat, but it does so from light radiation from the sun and not so much from your body because although your body does " radiate" heat, it does not produce electomagnetic waves as does the sun. Conductive heat loss from your skin happens regardless of clothing color.

[Mr. Right]

Really, we're talking about a relatively small amount of heat being trapped in dark fabrics that are in the sun. Minuscule compared to the amount of body heat you generate while hiking. Also, if it's cold at the end of day (when you're not moving) you'll either build a fire or get in your sleeping bag. I doubt anyone will stand around in dark clothes at the end of a day as a way to heat up.

[scope]

...black absorbs heat. I presume the logic is that this additional heat absorbed from the environment improves the clothing's ability to keep you warm. Why wouldn't this black clothing (baselayers, layering tops) absorb additional heat from your body and lose it to the environment instead?

Doesn't work that way, dude, although its a reasonable question if you're under the impression the heat is what is absorbed. Lighter colors reflect more light. Darker colors absorb more light which in turn creates more heat. Its really about direct sunlight more so that ambient light during the daytime.

[DapperD]

Just wonderin"....I keep hearing that wearing black in winter is a good idea because black absorbs heat. I presume the logic is that this additional heat absorbed from the environment improves the clothing's ability to keep you warm. Why wouldn't this black clothing (baselayers, layering tops) absorb additional heat from your body and lose it to the environment instead?I know black colored clothing and dark clothing does absorb sunlight more easily than lighter colored clothing. This is one reason you want to avoid the color black or darker colors when it is very hot out. Lighter colors help repel the sunlight. In the winter months if the sun is out, I guess the same absorbing type effect of the suns energy would still occur with darker clothing, but I guess the effect would be minimal if it is very cold. However it would be news to me to learn that black or dark clothing actually absorbs more and traps more of the bodies own heat than lighter colors. This would be news to me:-?.

[swjohnsey]

Black doesn't show wine stains.

[mweinstone]

ultra violet cancer causing rays from sunlight are blocked by dark clothing.

light color clothing in summer sunlight alowes these rays to damage you.

the resulting sunburn, thru light clothes, heats you alot.

sunburn, blocked by dark clothes,keeps you cooler.

a dark shirt on a long distance hike of several months in heat and sun, keeps you cooler.

visible light reflected is half the battle. uv light absorbed is the real enemy.and only dark colors acheive this.

[LoneRidgeRunner]

ultra violet cancer causing rays from sunlight are blocked by dark clothing.

light color clothing in summer sunlight alowes these rays to damage you.

the resulting sunburn, thru light clothes, heats you alot.

sunburn, blocked by dark clothes,keeps you cooler.

a dark shirt on a long distance hike of several months in heat and sun, keeps you cooler.

visible light reflected is half the battle. uv light absorbed is the real enemy.and only dark colors acheive this.

This was interesting to learn.....good points and well taken......I seldom hike in the Summer though so that's not a problem for me ..unless it applies to Winter also....any more thoughts on that?

[mweinstone]

a bear costume worn in the fall while hiking, with the acociated warm rounds absorbed ,causes a warm feeling prior to death simular to hypothermic disorientation.

a matthewski costume worn by a bear during hiking season ,.....makes weird children and really mad chicks.

the single best defence against the damageing rays of the sun is suntanned and toughened skin.

sunblock causes cancer while creating pale skin witch is easily damaged when exsposed to the forgetfullness of the user and taken out without sunblock.

[mweinstone]

im gonna go wake up al gore, have him fire up the interwebs and reaserch this more.

[kayak karl]

if you spray paint your Gatorade bottle flat black and hung on outside of pack, will it keep water from freezing???

[LoneRidgeRunner]

if you spray paint your Gatorade bottle flat black and hung on outside of pack, will it keep water from freezing???


Not if it's well below freezing...just my opinion of course....

[kayak karl]

Not if it's well below freezing...just my opinion of course....
CoyoteWhips would of wanted me to test this. i think i will.
remember boiling water in the Chinese takeout boxes LOL
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=30703

[LoneRidgeRunner]

CoyoteWhips would of wanted me to test this. i think i will.
remember boiling water in the Chinese takeout boxes LOL
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=30703

Let us know how it goes..LOL..

[LoneRidgeRunner]

Let us know how it goes..LOL..

I just went and read that thread...LOL...so did Coyote ever get his drawers washed or not?

[leaftye]

Black is colder at night.

[weary]

Black is colder at night.
I kind of doubt it, but I rarely wear black, summer or winter, so I could be wrong.

But in general color affects the absorption of the sun's rays. Once the sun is obscured, color is immaterial. A possible exception is a reflective inner layer that reflects back the warmth of the body. I once owned long johns with a reflective inner layer. They were far too warm for walking, but they did wonders for increasing the warmth of a sleeping bag at night.

[garlic08]

I learned about black body radiation in physics. I was taught that black both radiates and absorbs heat better than white. Automobile radiators are usually painted black for that reason. Large electrical transformers, at least in northern climates, are often painted dark green or gray for that reason. Most (not all) winter sleeping bags are light in color, too. I learned in my winter survival class that your black clothing is good in the day, but bad at night.

Radiation heat loss is at least partly why surface air temps are lower on a clear night than on a cloudy night, and why you can get frost on rooftops even if the temperature is above freezing.

I think radiation loss is very small compared to convection and conduction. I would chose a dark down coat over a white windbreaker any time at night. But all other things being equal, color might make a slight difference.

[leaftye]

Radiation heat loss is at least partly why surface air temps are lower on a clear night than on a cloudy night, and why you can get frost on rooftops even if the temperature is above freezing.

I didn't realize this until recently. I was told the difference can be something like 6-7 degrees. I'm usually in the sack when the sun goes down, so I still prefer my clothing to be black because they will dry more quickly when the sun comes back up.

[Flippy]

Not to play down my geekiness (knowledge of heat transfer: conduction, convection and radiation) Simply put, clothing color makes a difference - hike the desert sections of the PCT or CDT in black/dark clothes. You will feel the difference.

[DapperD]

Here's an old thread on the discussion of painting cooking pots black to increase their overall ability to heat things faster:eek::http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16321

[Appalachian Tater]

In the winter wearing black has much less of an effect than during the summer when the light is stronger due to the angle. It's not worth worrying about even in the summer on most of the A.T. as it is shady. The fabric and insulation and humdity and your body fat and how much skin you have exposed have a much greater effect on your comfort. The only time I would worry about it would be walking in the sun in a hot climate for long periods of time.

[sir limpsalot]

hmmm...so the radiant heat loss from the body that could be drawn to the black clothing is not a concern- even though the radiant heat savings from reflective barriers in the neoair and new columbia thermal technology are significant. is radiant heat loss a concern or not? is there a real measure, or just all supposition?

[leaftye]

hmmm...so the radiant heat loss from the body that could be drawn to the black clothing is not a concern- even though the radiant heat savings from reflective barriers in the neoair and new columbia thermal technology are significant. is radiant heat loss a concern or not? is there a real measure, or just all supposition?

Not when you have a big puffy layer of insulation on top of it. That insulation would trap what the black clothing tries to radiate.

Where color might be a concern is when your puffy jacket or sleeping bag is black on the outside. It'd be better to be lightly colored on the outside and black on the inside...black on the inside so it can be turned inside-out for better drying in the sun.

[grayfox]

Sir L., unless you've been nuked, you don't radiate much. You are warm, your body heat conducts into the air around you and is then convected by that air to cold things like your clothes.

I'm not a physicist but I have slept at a Hotel 6 a couple of times. Ok, briefly, here is how I learned it: Light, like from the sun, is absorbed by a body(could be water, skin, rock...) the body is heated by that radient energy. The heated body can transfer this heat by convection(into the air) or conduction(into another body) but not radiation, unless it is heated to the point it gives off light(light is radient energy).

I wouldn't worry too much about black clothes sucking the heat out of your body at night. Besides, I like black, Johnny Cash wore black all the time-yeah, he's dead but-I don't think black was the reason; even though you might be able to argue that wearing black is a sign of depression in a person and depression does kill, so, go figure!

[garlic08]

hmmm...so the radiant heat loss from the body that could be drawn to the black clothing is not a concern- even though the radiant heat savings from reflective barriers in the neoair and new columbia thermal technology are significant. is radiant heat loss a concern or not? is there a real measure, or just all supposition?

Radiant heat loss is definitely a concern, thus the use of reflective layers in emergency blankets, etc. Your first question is a much tougher one--whether color noticeably affects radiation. As far as I can find out, color is mostly theory and I've never felt the difference between black and white clothing at night.

But you can easily feel the amount of radiation loss yourself, regardless of color, by wrapping yourself in a mylar space blanket at night--immediate warmth. The only problem is you'll get soaked in your own perspiration and respiration, so most products put it beneath you or in little dots like Columbia.

[leaftye]

But you can easily feel the amount of radiation loss yourself, regardless of color, by wrapping yourself in a mylar space blanket at night--immediate warmth.

I think most of that is because evaporative cooling is severely halted because that space blanket is also a VBL.

[4eyedbuzzard]

The color of clothing has much less effect regarding the infrared radiation that is raditated by the human body than it does with radiation in the visible spectrum from the sun. The sun emits most of its energy in the visible spectrum. Darker colors (esp black) will absorb more of this energy which is then transmitted via conduction, convection, and by infra-red reradiation from the clothing to both the body and the surrounding air. But the infrared radiation the body emits is less affected by clothing color than it is by other properties of the clothing worn.

There's a pretty good article on heat loss / basic human thermodynamics and all this at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00184.html

[garlic08]

I think most of that is because evaporative cooling is severely halted because that space blanket is also a VBL.

Excellent point. Thanks.

[scope]

There's a pretty good article on heat loss / basic human thermodynamics and all this at http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00184.html

Lots of great opinions on heat loss on this thread. This article really spells it all out, and to the point of the OP, might note that it only mentions color once and does so with regard to sunlight.

I, frankly, don't believe there is any heat loss with regard to color of clothing.

[Smile]

I find that pastel black is the best, sort of like the same color as the black album by spinal tap. :)

[scope]

I find that pastel black is the best, sort of like the same color as the black album by spinal tap. :)

Does it get any blacker than that?! :D