View Full Version : Electronic advice needed
aquaman1208
01-03-2011, 18:15
I've spent too much time in the woods talking to bears, chipmunks and such and it seems technology has passed me by. What I have is outdated and needs to be replaced before Springer this spring. Is there a preferred combo unit or package for music, audio books, phone, journal, camera etc.? :-?
If different pieces are advised, what do you recommend? I ask store clerks and they seem unclear about applications associated with long distance hiking particuarly with power needs (batteries or charging). Money is always important but performance and reliability count.
I suspect the GPS topic has been massaged at length but if I add one what would you buy?
Regards,
Aquaman
jeremesh
01-03-2011, 18:33
Well, it depends.. I have my Samsung Captivate phone which could be used for all my electronic needs. It has a camera, gps (with back country navigator), does movies, audiobooks, text books, web surfing, weather updates, and oh yeah, it lets me call people too.
BUT. The camera isnt as good as my sony camera. The GPS isnt as good as my delorme gps. The movies aren't as good as an MP4 player. The sound isnt as good as my ipod, etc.
So it's really a trade-off... you can get all the gadgets in one package which would obviously weigh less and take less space than the better versions of the individual items, but not at the best quality outcome.
I haven't thru hiked yet so I take all my gadgets with me just because I like gadgets and data.
As for battery life, that is the bad thing with my phone. I can eat through the battery in a few hours. There are a lot of options for recharge, Brunton has some solar items that I dont think are really worth the weight, they also have some power packs that will let you recharge your phone/ipod/whatever. You can also buy rechargeable batteries from duracell that let you recharge your phone battery via the charging cable. I think the best solution for my phone (YMMV) is going to be to buy a few extra batteries and swap them out as necessary.
beakerman
01-03-2011, 18:46
There is a product I read about recently called the iPeg or ePeg I cant remember which but it is a small tube (ok the size of a few D cell batteries...think one of the mid sized mag lights) and it generates electicity to recharge your devices while you walk. It obviously has some magnets and coils in it that move while you walk so I'm sure it fairly heavy.
I think I would rather opt for a light weight solar panel and some rechargeable batteries to get between towns/dark days then recharge everything once in town for resupply.
But then again my phone will last over a week as a camera/phone as long as I have digital signal...once I go analog I'm hosed. as an MP3 player it can chew up the power in a few hours.
It's hard to judge your power needs without knowing how frequently you plan to stop in town or how many hours of music/movies you plan on playing..those are your power hogs. The phone/camera/internet type functions don't suck that much power...they are all about the same so talk time is what you are looking for on those items. Another thing to look at is maximum memory. My phone and as I recall from when I bought it most others, take a memory card. IF there is a max size availible then you might want to take more than one...think of it as an extra roll of film for photos/video.
The Magellan eXplorist 710 might do everything but the phone. I wouldn't expect it to do anything but the gps function very well, but at least it's there. I have a Garmin Oregon 550 that is similar, except no microphone or speaker. Those two pieces of hardware would make it useful for listening to music and recording a journal. I like that both use AA batteries since that makes it easier/simpler to use a lot on the trail.
Lots of high end smartphones should also do what you want. I'd look for something with a replaceable battery.
LoneRidgeRunner
01-03-2011, 19:00
I can't speak about the combo units but as far as GPS units go..the very first hand-held I bought was many years ago when they were first available I think..It was a Magellan Trailblazer (400 bucke wasted) and that thing couldn't find it's way from my bed to my bathroom so I will stay away from anything Magellan from now on. Then I bought a Garmin GPS12 which was much better...Now I use a Rino120 (Garmin) which is great. Never tried a Delorme as jeremesh mentioned.
LoneRidgeRunner
01-03-2011, 19:02
The Magellan eXplorist 710 might do everything but the phone. I wouldn't expect it to do anything but the gps function very well, but at least it's there. I have a Garmin Oregon 550 that is similar, except no microphone or speaker. Those two pieces of hardware would make it useful for listening to music and recording a journal. I like that both use AA batteries since that makes it easier/simpler to use a lot on the trail.
Lots of high end smartphones should also do what you want. I'd look for something with a replaceable battery.
Apparently the Magellans have been improved since mine as leaftye spoke well of his...
I've heard bad things about Magellan before. I've never used one. Only Garmin. I'm hoping Garmin follows suit and adds a mic and speaker to an Oregon. I'd be happy to accept a couple extra ounces if they added a decent weatherproof folded mirror optical zoom.
Here's another option:
http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/default.asp?newsID=4594&review=casio+exilim+h20
The internal maps suck, but it would still work great for someone like me that uses the gps to get the coordinates to reference on paper maps. Of course it would work well as a camera, but would also do well for journaling....probably not so well as a mp3 player and not at all as a phone.
Apparently the Magellans have been improved since mine as leaftye spoke well of his...
Oops, we posted together. I like the specs of the 710, but know very little of its quality.
couscous
01-03-2011, 19:30
Is there a preferred combo unit or package for music, audio books, phone, journal, camera etc.? :-?
Personally, I'm delaying all new electronic purchases until I see if the iPhone really becomes available on Verizon this Spring. That might be as close to a preferred combo for the uses you list as we will see in 2011. The trade off is saving space and weight vs. risking losing your camera, GPS, audio player, phone, etc. with a single accident.
Isn't the new iPhone going to be released soon? I'd wait for that instead of getting the iPhone4 on Verizon. I'd also wait for them to finally fit the bugs in their current OS, but I'm not holding my breath since they can't seem to figure out how to program an alarm clock although it's been a problem for a few months.
DaveSail
01-03-2011, 19:55
Here You Go :
http://www.npowerpeg.com/personalenergy/personalenergy
Johnny Thunder
01-03-2011, 20:05
i've got it to the point where my phone and my camera charge from USB...so on shorter trips i can just use computers and on longer ones i can bring a single wall charger for the both.
Powder River
01-03-2011, 20:47
Well, it depends.. I have my Samsung Captivate phone which could be used for all my electronic needs. It has a camera, gps (with back country navigator), does movies, audiobooks, text books, web surfing, weather updates, and oh yeah, it lets me call people too.
BUT. The camera isnt as good as my sony camera. The GPS isnt as good as my delorme gps. The movies aren't as good as an MP4 player. The sound isnt as good as my ipod, etc.
Exactly my thoughts. I carry an iphone, ipod and a camera. I would say a camera is the most important item to carry separately, as no phone camera can match the performance of a good digital. A smart phone can do all of the remaining functions, including GPS.
I wouldn't worry about buying gadgets with specific battery types. The best cameras do not take AA batteries. You will find wall plugins every 3-5 days on the trail, and you can either carry spares or external power packs.
beakerman
01-03-2011, 20:55
Here You Go :
http://www.npowerpeg.com/personalenergy/personalenergy
Thats it!!! that's the one I was thinking of...thanks!
dont get old...they say the memory is the second thing to go....I don't remember what they said the first one was.
just get a upper end android phone, I use motorola droid2 & I love it because of all the free apps, 1ghz processor, 5meg camera (with a flash), 8 gig internal memory & I stuck a 16 gig memory card in it.
Jab.
Wise Old Owl
01-03-2011, 21:55
Iphone.... covered in the subpages of Backpacker at Trimble Outdoors.
http://www.backpacker.com/january2009_apple_iphone_3g/gear/12693
Garmins Oregon with Camera 2nd runner up.
topshelf
01-03-2011, 22:12
I guess I'm one of the few that only bring a cell phone for use in town. I use my time on the trail as a time away from technology. I don't mind listening to others' music at appropriate times, but I'm not going to carry the devices.
It's just me bickering with my subconscious thoughts on the trail.
Garmins Oregon with Camera 2nd runner up.
I would recommend this much more if the camera was usable more quickly after hitting the power button.
I guess I'm one of the few that only bring a cell phone for use in town. I use my time on the trail as a time away from technology. I don't mind listening to others' music at appropriate times, but I'm not going to carry the devices.
I don't like listening to music while hiking. It's kind of a nice idea, but there are other noises on the trail that I'd like to hear. Like rattlesnakes.
I'm not a big fan of cell phones on or off the trail. I'd only spend a lot on the cell phone if someone made my dream phone. Ruggedized, high resolution screen, AA user-replaceable batteries, folded optical zooming lens, big sensor, real gps with a good antenna, mp3 player and good power optimization schemes. Hopefully CES has a nice treat for me.
I agree with Jabber, the Droid option is attractive, IF you're okay with locking yourself into a contract. Warning (I found out the hard way): if you buy a high end Verizon smartphone with no contract, they don't allow you to activate it using their prepaid daily plan (which torqued me off ...), only the prepaid monthly.
If you do opt for an iPhone, factor in the recharge issue, as there's no user replaceable battery. With my Droid X I can carry one or even multiple backup batteries --- practically speaking, as many as I think I'll have a chance to recharge when in town. And as best as I can tell, the android operating system is an effective "easy, cool to use" competitor with Apple's IOS.
After I did the PCT I wrote up a document to give some ideas to those who were thinking of this approach, i.e., a smartphone as a thru-hiker's multi-function device. The specific technology has changed a little since then, but I think that reading (or at least skimming) through this might help you ask the right questions and perhaps avoid some unhappiness along the way:
http://postholer.com/smartPhone.html
"I'd only spend a lot on the cell phone if someone made my dream phone. Ruggedized, high resolution screen, AA user-replaceable batteries, folded optical zooming lens, big sensor, real gps with a good antenna, mp3 player and good power optimization schemes."
Ruggedized: I've seen ruggedized phones, but don't recommend that route. I carried my previous smartphone on two thru-hikes now, without incident. Carried it attached to my pack strap in a neoprene case, just put the phone itself inside a snack-sized ziplock bag whenever it was wet out.
High resolution screen: High end phones have these now. My Droid X has a 4.3" screen that's really quite impressive. Not sure why you want a high resolution screen for out in the woods, other than looking at your own photos and videos perhaps, but it's available.
AA user replaceable batteries: No dice there, but of course there are the separate recharge units that take AA lithiums. Depending on the trail this is more or less of a big deal. I used a solar charger in southern California to good effect, but more important to me is having a user replaceable battery so I can carry one or two spares and recharge those in town.
folded optical zooming lens: no go on this, at least insofar as I'm aware. Not something I really miss, however. In general for a backpacking camera I'm more interested in a wide angle lense than a zoom, and the camera software on my Droid X has pretty decent built-in panorama stitching software, FWIW.
big sensor:Not positive what you mean by that, but if I recall correctly my phone has a 6 megapixel camera, plenty IMO.
real gps with a good antenna: Real GPS isn't hard to find, "good antenna" is debateable and hard for a typical consumer to figure out (and reviews typically don't touch that aspect). I found the GPS chipset on my 2007 phone was just fine, and don't anticipate issues with my new one, though haven't used it much yet.
mp3 player: Built-in music player is pretty common. Might not be DRM capable for audiobooks, but new smartphones play tunes just fine, and generally offer plenty large capacity for storage. I still bring a very light separate MP3 player, but that's about power and DRM, FWIW.
and good power optimization schemes: My phone does a reasonable job in allowing me to turn things on and off, but does take a certain amount of homework and practice, and I admit that I fear how much the fundamental design of modern smartphones seem to assume an "always on the network" approach. Still, I think this is manageable.
Bottom line is that there will never be a perfect device, but IMO for a person with some money and time to throw at the problem, you can get something pretty darned good in the way of multi-function device just off the shelf on the market today.
Ruggedized: I've seen ruggedized phones, but don't recommend that route.
Ruggedized implies waterproof. That means broader photographic opportunities. Pictures in the rain or snow can be fun.
High resolution screen: High end phones have these now. My Droid X has a 4.3" screen that's really quite impressive. Not sure why you want a high resolution screen for out in the woods, other than looking at your own photos and videos perhaps, but it's available.
I want it for reading scanned books. Text reflowing does not work for scanned books, and scrolling sucks. I prefer fullscreen full page viewing.
AA user replaceable batteries: No dice there, but of course there are the separate recharge units that take AA lithiums. Depending on the trail this is more or less of a big deal. I used a solar charger in southern California to good effect, but more important to me is having a user replaceable battery so I can carry one or two spares and recharge those in town.
I'm with you that replaceable batteries is a good fall back, but I'd still love the ease and simplicity of AA cells.
folded optical zooming lens: no go on this, at least insofar as I'm aware.
I don't believe it exists yet. This goes hand-in-hand with being ruggedized. Folded lens means that the lens doesn't protrude when zooming. All the P&S ruggedized cameras have folded lenses.
big sensor:Not positive what you mean by that, but if I recall correctly my phone has a 6 megapixel camera, plenty IMO.
I mean bigger physical sensor instead of the tiny sensors found in cell phones. Megapixels can be a bad thing in small sensors.
real gps with a good antenna: Real GPS isn't hard to find, "good antenna" is debateable and hard for a typical consumer to figure out (and reviews typically don't touch that aspect). I found the GPS chipset on my 2007 phone was just fine, and don't anticipate issues with my new one, though haven't used it much yet.
Your last post about a service plan got me thinking. I'd be very disappointed if the gps didn't work as well as a standalone unit when the service contract was over.
mp3 player: Built-in music player is pretty common. Might not be DRM capable for audiobooks, but new smartphones play tunes just fine, and generally offer plenty large capacity for storage. I still bring a very light separate MP3 player, but that's about power and DRM, FWIW.
and good power optimization schemes: My phone does a reasonable job in allowing me to turn things on and off, but does take a certain amount of homework and practice, and I admit that I fear how much the fundamental design of modern smartphones seem to assume an "always on the network" approach. Still, I think this is manageable.
I'm thinking all about power. There's no need for that power hungry 1+ ghz processor to be fully operating to play mp3's.
Again, you got me thinking. It'd be a shame to buy my dream convergence device, only to find that it's severely crippled without a service contract.[/quote]
Bottom line is that there will never be a perfect device, but IMO for a person with some money and time to throw at the problem, you can get something pretty darned good in the way of multi-function device just off the shelf on the market today.
My dream for a convergence device hasn't changed much over the past 10 years. The biggest change is the desire for a high resolution screen. And the reason I probably didn't think of it before was that memory would have been insanely expensive to store scanned books.
I recently got an iPod touch an like it. WIFI and no contracts. It gives me email, music and a standby camera. For better pictures in the rain (or underwater) I use an Olympus Tough. Both are charged via USB. For charging on the go I have a Powerfilmsolar AA+USB solar charger. It will charge two AA batteries for your flashlight and you USB equipment. The phone is just a cheapo that you get with the free contract. I like them separate so in town you can multitask with the phone and web with the touch. Multitasking gets you back on the trail quicker. ;)
There is a product I read about recently called the iPeg or ePeg I cant remember which but it is a small tube (ok the size of a few D cell batteries...think one of the mid sized mag lights) and it generates electicity to recharge your devices while you walk. It obviously has some magnets and coils in it that move while you walk so I'm sure it fairly heavy.
At this juncture, I'm looking at an iPhone, a Brunton Solo 3.4 and my Panasonic DMC-TZ5 camera with a spare battery and its charger. Here's my long-winded rationale:
I've been struggling between my desire to carry electronic devices, and the need to recharge them between trail towns. I thought it would be nice to have some ability to take pictures, send email, update blogs, read ebooks , refer to scanned pdf files, upload pics, listen to music, find my way when lost, and find the occasional geocache ... Humping a separate camera, GPS, iPod and smartphone seemed like a lot of weight, and an iPhone could do it all. If not as well as stand-alone devices. And, you can't get extra batteries for it.
But, the iPhone can be put in "Airplane mode" which shuts off the phone function so it's not constantly expending battery power looking for cell towers. That frees it up to be used for the occasional GPS use, writing a note, listening to mp3s ...
I am a photographer, and I could not imagine settling for the camera in the iPhone. My Panasonic/Lumix DMC-TZ5 is an excellent, if not eggsactly lightweight camera, with a great wide-range lens. If I didn't already have it, I'd get their DMC-LX5 which is a few ozs lighter and allows RAW capture.
I'm still undecided whether to carry a dedicated GPS vice just an iPhone. There are iPhone apps that use Topo maps, but I am unsure about the sensitivity under a canopy of trees. My Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx has topo maps, a high sensitivity receiver, and weighs a ton. Their Foretrex 401 doesn't have the mapping function, but can hold 500 waypoints, has both electronic barometer and compass, can be had a deep discount right now, uses 2 AAA cells, and weighs just 3 ozs. I'll probably forgo a dedicated GPS if I score an iPhone ...
I'm thinking the iPhone and my camera would simplify things and give me all the functionality I want. I can get an extra battery for the camera, but not the iPhone. So, how to keep that bugger charged between town visits?
I thought solar looked promising -Attach panels to my pack and hike north with the sun at my back ... But the cute, small panels are underpowered, some need to be in direct sunlight or they shut down Reviews of Brunton's foldable solar cells suggest they provide some power if in indirect light, but knowing I'll be hiking in the "Long Green Tunnel," and stories of folks constantly futzing with panels for minimal results sent me looking elsewhere.
I saw references to the nPower PEG, and when I looked into it I found it was designed by an AT Hiker, seems to produce enough power to keep an iPhone charged, but it is heavy at 12 ozs, perhaps a bit underpowered, and well, unavailable. Apparently a critical part source is giving them fits, and they are taking reservations for when they are ready to ship.
Right now, I'm looking at a rechargeable battery pack made by Brunton. Their Solo 3.4 allegedly will recharge an iPhone 3-4 times, weighs 5.2 ozs, can be charged from solar cells, USB, or a wall outlet, and costs $65.00. I imagine there are other, similar devices, but this is the first I found that seems to fit my needs. http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=603
"I am a photographer, and I could not imagine settling for the camera in the iPhone."
Each to their own of course, but the photos I mostly take on trail are of static scenery and of people, both of which come out pretty well with a decent current-model smartphone. My Droid X has something like a 5 megapixel camera built in, and the default camera software has a great panorama photo process that makes this quite easy. I like to take two-photo panoramas of wide open scenery.