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Mountain_Goat
01-04-2011, 21:06
Was wondering if people carry bear spray or pepper spray on their thru hikes? If so,which kind do you recommend?:-?

Fog Horn
01-04-2011, 21:11
My family told me I'm not allowed to hike without one or the other. I've heard the spray is near useless on bears, but they want me to be more protected from the human factor than animal factors.

Mountain_Goat
01-04-2011, 21:23
My family told me I'm not allowed to hike without one or the other. I've heard the spray is near useless on bears, but they want me to be more protected from the human factor than animal factors.

you recommend any one over another? My reason for carrying one is for the same reason.I hope to never come close enough to a bear to have to use it. I find there is so many between bear spray/pepper spray and mace.

Iceaxe
01-04-2011, 21:26
In Montana I met a Cowboy (Cowgirl actually) wearing a bear load pepper spray can. When I asked her about it she said it was well know to be more effective than a gun. In fact she only carried her gun for herself or her horse!
The argument she made was that a hand gun, even of a large caliber, would be hard to fire accurately and not likely kill an attacking grizzly bear outright. The pepper spray releases a cone shaped cloud out to about 20 feet. (This is a bear load pepper spray can we are talking about). So she figured there was a much greater chance of detering the bear with the spray than shooting it dead with a gun.
Before anyone gets the idea I was not talking to a true Cowboy.. this lady was out rounding up cattle by herself with one arm in a cast! She had broken her arm a week earlier and there was nobody else to do the work so there she was.
It was an interesting moment for me cause i assumed so many things about what Montana folks would be like.
Here instead of a gun toting, leather clad cowboy I met a tie dye wearing, tough as nails, bear spray toting Cowgirl.
Anyhow I carried a 7 ounce can of pepper spray from Pinedale Wyoming to 50 Mountain Glacier National park where I traded it for a box of cream cheese frosted cinamin rolls. That made for a rather interesting last day hiking through Griz country,alone, face smeared with cream cheese.. and no bear spray. :sun
Looking back I think there was very little chance i could have drawn out that can of pepperspray in time to use it on a charging griz anyways. I would not carry it again unless I were to wear it on my belt... but i don't wear a belt so i guess I would not carry it again.

Fog Horn
01-04-2011, 21:44
you recommend any one over another? My reason for carrying one is for the same reason.I hope to never come close enough to a bear to have to use it. I find there is so many between bear spray/pepper spray and mace.

I run with pepper spray whenever I run during the night time. Its light weight. The thing is, unless my thumb is already hooked into it (which it always is while running) then I'm not sure how useful it really would be during a surprise attack.

I'm a klutz though. I fumble with it because of the keychain it comes on.

I would say that you should go feel each of them out in an outfitter. Feel the weight, figure out where you'd want to store it, and practice how long it would take you to raise and effectively use each of them, and then go with whatever one works best for you.

Two deterrents I have with either spray is (1) to be effective it would need to be easy access to me at all times, which means other humans will see it, which means your element of surprise might be lost, and (2) from reading this forum and books on the AT it seems like anyone with bear spray is ridiculed and humiliated. While we shouldn't care what people think about the gear they choose, I don't want people thinking I am an inexperienced ninny simply because I carry bear spray.

HYOH imo. My family won't be out on the trail with me, so which ever self defense system I go with, is my choice, and I want one that I feel the most comfortable with. I don't know what that is yet, but I've got slightly over a year to figure it out. Good luck!

Lone Wolf
01-04-2011, 21:56
Was wondering if people carry bear spray or pepper spray on their thru hikes? If so,which kind do you recommend?:-?

neither are needed on the AT

chiefiepoo
01-04-2011, 23:35
Iceaxe is right about griz country. A can of CounterAssault on your belt in the back country. Out and ready in your hand when you see fresh scat, a torn up berry patch, or carcass. Maybe even when you see vultures circling close by or when the hair on your neck is up for some unknown reason. Anti personnel spray is not gonna deter a griz.
OTH, Lone Wolf is right about the AT. No need to carry for the bears, people might present the real hazzard.

LoneRidgeRunner
01-05-2011, 00:05
Was wondering if people carry bear spray or pepper spray on their thru hikes? If so,which kind do you recommend?:-?

Uncontrolled dogs seem to be a bigger threat than bears. I've never been charged by a bear even though I have walked up on a large sow with cubs in the Smokies once fairly close. But I was once charged by a German Shepard which was unleashed. If I had bear spray (I didn't) there would have been a dog (and probably the owner too) with some seriously burning eyes because he didn't appreciate the fact that I nearly stabbed his ill mannered dog with my hiking poles and was going for my big Buck knife when he yelled at the dog and it stopped. If a man's dog is going to charge people he should either leave it at home or keep it on a a leash unless he wants it stabbed.

laser58
01-09-2011, 12:46
I carry a palm sized pepper spray, mostly for peace-of-mind. In fact, last year while hiking a 65 mile section in the SNP, I've come close to many black bears and found myself grabbing my camera. Haven't gotten any good pics yet but then they never posed for me yet. Working on that ....








If you don’t know where you are going, life will decide for you ….

2.0
01-09-2011, 13:34
Just a little side note about pepper spray. I wouldn't judge anyone for carrying it, just not my nature, but if you do decide to, be careful and carry it where it can be reached at in 1 second. If it is inaccessible (in your pack) it will be useless. If you will need it, you will most likely need it quickly.

As a former law enforcement officer I had been trained to use it and have been sprayed with it. If you are attacked and use it there is a good chance you may get some on you or even in your eyes due to wind blow back. In an attack there is no time to determine wind direction so just be prepared. Don't take your eyes off your target (bear, dog, human, etc) and aim for their face if a stream type spray or center of body mass if a misting/fogger type.

Be sure to wash your hands after using it otherwise you may pay for it next time you touch your face or wipe away your sweat.

Safe travels.

gunner76
01-09-2011, 14:09
The Forest Service has issued a BEAR WARNING in the national forests for this summer. They're urging everyone to protect themselves by wearing bells and carrying pepper spray.
Campers should be alert for signs of fresh bear activity, and they should be able to tell the difference between Black Bear dung and Grizzy Bear dung.
Black Bear dung is rather small and round. Sometimes you can see fruit seeds and/or squirrel fur in it.
Grizzly Bear dung has bells in it, and smells like pepper spray!http://www.funnyhumor.com/viewcount.php?type=joke&id=2&s=

darkage
01-09-2011, 14:20
Dog charges me, he'll be dealt with along with its owner ... I hike in bear territory all the time ... i've seen ONE, and heard plenty more getting the hell away from where i was coming from ... bears on the A.T shouldn't be a concern, neither should other hiker's in general. But you should always have some sort of self defense method planed out for any situation, If its hiking poles as a spear, bear/human mace or a readily available thru tang straight blade knife at the ready .... Chances of you needing any of them along the 2200 miles is pretty slim. Worry about keeping your head in place for the mental breakdowns you'll experiance.

tawa
01-09-2011, 14:28
Talked with a fellow hiker on the AT last week and he suggested bringing along just a few cherry bombs--M-80's. The sound and flash --similar to a gun should deter them if they are around your shelter or camp.

Awol1970
01-09-2011, 14:52
I always figured I would use my poles like a light saber (with accompaning noises provided by me of course) whether it was a bear, dog or human attacking me. Seriously though... I would no more carry a gun, large tactical knife or bearspray than i would wear a nomex suit and helmet while driving my truck in rush hour traffic in Atlanta...on second thought....

daddytwosticks
01-09-2011, 15:16
tawa...this is what I have taken with me (just regular firecrackers) for use in camp and have never actually had to use them. The bears must KNOW I'm carrying. Be aware, some folks here will ridicule your choice of bear deterrent for camp. Happy hiking. :)

tawa
01-09-2011, 15:48
daddytwosticks---Thanks for sharing. I agree with your last statement. Alot of opinions on here ---some I value and agree with --and others I don't. I've learned through my life's experience that its often those that ridicule and judge others that hate it when others direct it at them. Interesting how others are quick to judge until it effects them. Case in point---have had folks criticize and judge me about killing mice and then turn around and whine and complain when there new sleeping bag gets chewed into.
I just want to hike my own hike and do what works for me.

So Far
01-09-2011, 16:00
They want nothing to do with u...give them their space.

SwingLow
01-12-2011, 23:16
neither are needed on the AT

I would never say a simple and effective form of self defense is "never needed"- even on the AT. I always carry my bear spray, it will work for humans too. Bear attacks might be rare, but you don't want to be in that small percentage. Its better to be prepared. I watch a lot of survival shows and in 90% of the situations people get in that nearly kill them, they make the decision to leave their cell phone or their bear spray and then regret it. Not to mention that the woods are a perfect place for killers to hide out. A statistically safer place still has potential for bad things to happen as long as people have access to it and animals are that not tamed.

Enic
01-12-2011, 23:55
neither are needed on the AT:confused:

Funny that neither are needed... because earlier today I swear I saw a comment from LW saying the best defence on the trail was a concealed carry...

I don't/won't carry spray or mace... but if you want to, hold a couple different models in your hand. See what feels best for you, most natural fit. If you are going to carry it, feel comfortable with it.

Lone Wolf
01-13-2011, 03:21
:confused:

Funny that neither are needed... because earlier today I swear I saw a comment from LW saying the best defence on the trail was a concealed carry...



correct. no mace or pepper spray

K-Bear
01-15-2011, 16:51
all you need to do is go get a 5 dollar air horn from wal-mart. nothing likes an air horn fired off in their face. not me. not you. not a bear or mtn lion. nothing. no harm no damage. just you and a BIG noise between you and happenstance safety. All you need. That and a heart full of love. :sun
Animals communicate via smell and sound...think about that.

Keep it all light and you move into that light. Less is more. Your place on the food chain is secure and the critters know that. Maintain your presence on the food chain by making a HUGE F*ing racket if anything bothers you. I used mine to scare off a wild bloody (literally soaked in it) boar near standing Indian.
In a pinch, you stand with arm outstretched and squeeze that puppy for a few seconds and EVERYTHING nearby scurries into the underbrush.
I mean EVERYTHING!
Problem...solved!
I encountered a HUGE mountain lion at Blood Mtn GA once and it saw me...it was the size of a large coffee table. It looked my way as I was heading to my tent to sleep. I leveled my horn toward its nose and never had to fire it off. The lion just saw me and (very) casually ambled off into the woods.
Gods creatures want little to do with us. They know we are too much trouble to be food. The only thing to be wary of is animals inflicted with rabies as this makes them wildly aggressive. Even then in the face of blind aggressive rage, the sound of an air horn in their face would make any of gods critters wet themselves and run off.
Pepper hurts and could make an animal even angrier. An air horn just makes things RUN.
Air Horn+Heart full of love
Done

Wise Old Owl
01-15-2011, 19:45
I like Iceaxe's post, you don't need bear spray, but you might want mace if you run into crazy drunk/druggie non hikers.


Wish I was there K-bear... that would have been very cool.....

gunner76
01-15-2011, 20:30
M-80's & Cherry Bombs are illegal in the US and have been for many years.

Read this article http://www.fireworksland.com/html/m80.html

Jim Adams
01-15-2011, 23:38
best self protection is common sense. most predicaments on the trail can be avoided if you think about what you are doing in your surroundings.

geek

kayak karl
01-15-2011, 23:53
when was the last bear attack on the AT???

Sarcasm the elf
01-15-2011, 23:54
all you need to do is go get a 5 dollar air horn from wal-mart. nothing likes an air horn fired off in their face. not me. not you. not a bear or mtn lion. nothing. no harm no damage. just you and a BIG noise between you and happenstance safety. All you need. That and a heart full of love. :sun
Animals communicate via smell and sound...think about that.

Keep it all light and you move into that light. Less is more. Your place on the food chain is secure and the critters know that. Maintain your presence on the food chain by making a HUGE F*ing racket if anything bothers you. I used mine to scare off a wild bloody (literally soaked in it) boar near standing Indian.
In a pinch, you stand with arm outstretched and squeeze that puppy for a few seconds and EVERYTHING nearby scurries into the underbrush.
I mean EVERYTHING!
Problem...solved!
I encountered a HUGE mountain lion at Blood Mtn GA once and it saw me...it was the size of a large coffee table. It looked my way as I was heading to my tent to sleep. I leveled my horn toward its nose and never had to fire it off. The lion just saw me and (very) casually ambled off into the woods.
Gods creatures want little to do with us. They know we are too much trouble to be food. The only thing to be wary of is animals inflicted with rabies as this makes them wildly aggressive. Even then in the face of blind aggressive rage, the sound of an air horn in their face would make any of gods critters wet themselves and run off.
Pepper hurts and could make an animal even angrier. An air horn just makes things RUN.
Air Horn+Heart full of love
Done

Interesting, I never though to use an air-horn while hiking. Makes sense in though.
There is a woman who fosters rescued/rehabilitated pit-bulls and brings them to a dog park near where I live. She brings an air horn just in case the dogs become over aggressive. The one time I know of that she had to use the air-horn, every dog (twenty or so) in the park stopped dead in their tracks. I imagine wild animals would be even more scared of it.

lori
01-16-2011, 00:36
For people, an attitude of "don't mess with me" is best. I got one by taking a few years of karate with an emphasis on self protection. If they are going to shoot you, you're not going to have an advantage unless you see them pointing a gun at you and you just happen to have the bear spray in hand, AND, they are in range of the bear spray. If they come at you with a knife and you have trekking poles, you have an advantage - soft points in the groin, eyeballs, stomach, and a long pointy object that's quickly swung up as they rush you. If they're just being creepy... keep hiking. Sustained attempts to follow you or talk to you can be dealt with as rudely and loudly as possible.

I'd trust my trekking poles over bear or pepper spray - in a heightened state of adrenalin fueled agitation am I going to know which way the wind is blowing? Nope. After accidentally getting the stuff on myself I don't bother. The last thing I want is to be incapacitated with the mischief maker right there!

For bears, now, that's different - in grizz country, I would never hike alone, take bear spray, and sing my way through the wilderness. In Alaska, I would never hike alone, always take someone with serious firearms, and have the bear spray for good measure. The bear spray would be on my belt and I would have it out the instant I suspected a bear was in the area, ready to deploy when it got into range.

Anywhere in the lower 48, I worry about dehydration, hypothermia, and bee stings. and if I'm going to a national park... marijuana growers, but not so much as I worry about the other things, since I'll only find them when going cross country at lower elevations, which I don't do so much.

Fog Horn
01-16-2011, 02:10
Anywhere in the lower 48, I worry about dehydration, hypothermia, and bee stings. and if I'm going to a national park... marijuana growers, but not so much as I worry about the other things, since I'll only find them when going cross country at lower elevations, which I don't do so much.

I'm from California, originally, and the biggest problem we have in our parks are the drug runners/ marijuana growers. Usually though, if you are on a beaten path, like the AT or the official hiking trails in any given park, you don't have to worry about this either. They tend to grow their crop/ smuggle their crop well off the beaten path where the rangers won't easily see them.

garlic08
01-16-2011, 09:58
when was the last bear attack on the AT???

Here's a list of known bear fatalities in North America: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

It looks like there have been a couple of fatalities TN in the last decade. I remember some non-lethal attacks in NY and NJ in the past few years, too. Probably none right on the AT, though.

It's interesting to note that there have been the same number of grizzly fatalities (in the wild--discount the zoo incidents) in the lower 48 in the same time period.

It's also interesting to note that the Eastern and Western states have about the same number of fatalities. Of course, there are fewer people out West so the rate is higher.

I didn't carry bear spray or any other deterrent on the AT or PCT. I judged it wasn't worth the weight or hassle. I did on the CDT and PNT, but I'll also admit to a bit of a grizzly phobia. If you do carry spray, there are some cautions--it may be hard to get on a plane, you can't cross an international border with it, and you have to be careful about storing it in heat and sunlight. And like everyone else said, it has to be instantly accessible and you have to know how to use it. You also need to be constantly aware of wind speed and direction. Some recommend that you buy two cans and spray one off as practice to get an idea of range and coverage.

Pedaling Fool
01-16-2011, 10:12
What I find interesting and somewhat counter-intuitive is that the experts say that if a grizzly attacks you it's likely due to protecting its young or food source...but, if a black bear attacks it's likely motivated due to predation.

Pedaling Fool
01-16-2011, 10:18
Was wondering if people carry bear spray or pepper spray on their thru hikes? If so,which kind do you recommend?:-?
BTW, I don't carry the stuff. Not needed.

randyg45
01-16-2011, 10:34
I'm pretty sure almost everything sold as "bear spray" is "pepper spray"; i.e oleoresin capsicum. Mace and tear gas were developed for use on humans, but have subsequently been largely replaced by pepper spray.

lori
01-16-2011, 11:45
I'm pretty sure almost everything sold as "bear spray" is "pepper spray"; i.e oleoresin capsicum. Mace and tear gas were developed for use on humans, but have subsequently been largely replaced by pepper spray.

There is a difference - with bear spray, the spray pattern is wide and more dispersed, and the canister holds a lot more. You need that as you may need more than one shot - you might run into another bear the next day, and there's no kiosk every six miles to buy a new one. The personal pepper spray bottles for joggers shoot a stream and require a little more precision.

But yes, it is the same stuff.

Wise Old Owl
01-16-2011, 12:38
Talked with a fellow hiker on the AT last week and he suggested bringing along just a few cherry bombs--M-80's. The sound and flash --similar to a gun should deter them if they are around your shelter or camp.


tawa...this is what I have taken with me (just regular firecrackers) for use in camp and have never actually had to use them. The bears must KNOW I'm carrying. Be aware, some folks here will ridicule your choice of bear deterrent for camp. Happy hiking. :)


M-80's & Cherry Bombs are illegal in the US and have been for many years.

Read this article http://www.fireworksland.com/html/m80.html

People use the expression like Kleenex vs Tissues, or Coke as apposed to cola.

The true source of these statements is Park Rangers carry a bottle rocket like weapon. And having a bunch of bottle rockets or firecrackers is lighter & cheaper than bear spray. Before you go blowing up bears tho, try yelling at the bear first"

Bear Bangers
http://www.deakin.com/shop/products/?p=3360

Strategic
01-16-2011, 13:00
neither are needed on the AT

Completely agree, LW. The black bears on the AT, even the ones in high population areas like GSMNP, SNP and New Jersey simply don't attack humans unless there's some other very unusual factor in play. Your odds of being struck by lightening twice on the same trail are better than those of being attacked by a black bear on the AT.

Leave the bear spray at home and save the weight.

StubbleJumper
01-16-2011, 14:28
My bear deterrent was manufactured by Canon. Whenever I see a bear, I dig my camera out of my pocket or pack, and by the time it's turned on a ready for a photo, the bear is long gone. Works like a charm every time.

Black bears are a trivial risk when you are hiking. Don't spend any time worrying about them. People should instead worry about getting Lyme disease from ticks.

johnnyblisters
01-16-2011, 15:09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2XUgE6g7XU

Just pray he hears your screams.

Snowleopard
01-16-2011, 21:51
What I find interesting and somewhat counter-intuitive is that the experts say that if a grizzly attacks you it's likely due to protecting its young or food source...but, if a black bear attacks it's likely motivated due to predation.
This is sort of true. It is very rare, but sometimes black bears predate on humans. The only cases I know of are in Canada; there were several deaths in one incident in Algonquin Provincial Park. Somebody at Mass Wildlife studying bears in Mass was kind of creeped out when he realized that the bear he was tracking had doubled back and was tracking him. Most likely the bear was curious, not predatory.


Here's a list of known bear fatalities in North America: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

It looks like there have been a couple of fatalities TN in the last decade. I remember some non-lethal attacks in NY and NJ in the past few years, too. Probably none right on the AT, though.

I've read of bear attacks in PA, NJ and NY. My recollection is that there have been 1 or 2 fatalities each in NJ and in NY in the last 10 years, not on the AT but not real far away. The area south of the Catskills seems to have a lot of problems (but few attacks) that seem to be caused by people not securing their garbage.

According to garlic's list, there have been several Polar Bear attacks in New York City. Probably if you don't climb into a zoo's Polar Bear cage you'll be fine.

Snowleopard
01-16-2011, 21:53
Left out of previous post:
You don't need bear spray anywhere on the AT.
In Massachusetts at least, you need a firearms permit to legally carry mace, pepper spray, or bear spray. You might need to be a Mass. resident to get the permit, but I'm not sure of that.

Dances with Mice
01-16-2011, 22:44
No one has ever been killed by a bear on the Appalachian Trail.

The bears have always dragged hikers off the trail before killing them.

10-K
01-16-2011, 22:53
You're more likely to get bit by a snake than mauled by a bear.

Fog Horn
01-16-2011, 23:55
You're more likely to get bit by a snake than mauled by a bear.

Bring snake spray!!!!:D

mcskinney
01-17-2011, 05:31
The Forest Service has issued a BEAR WARNING in the national forests for this summer. They're urging everyone to protect themselves by wearing bells and carrying pepper spray.
Campers should be alert for signs of fresh bear activity, and they should be able to tell the difference between Black Bear dung and Grizzy Bear dung.
Black Bear dung is rather small and round. Sometimes you can see fruit seeds and/or squirrel fur in it.
Grizzly Bear dung has bells in it, and smells like pepper spray!http://www.funnyhumor.com/viewcount.php?type=joke&id=2&s=

I lol'd all over myself just now

Pedaling Fool
01-17-2011, 08:26
This is sort of true. It is very rare, but sometimes black bears predate on humans. The only cases I know of are in Canada; there were several deaths in one incident in Algonquin Provincial Park. Somebody at Mass Wildlife studying bears in Mass was kind of creeped out when he realized that the bear he was tracking had doubled back and was tracking him. Most likely the bear was curious, not predatory.
I'm not sure how you can claim that a predatory attack by a black bear only happened once.(Yes you did say "only cases I know of...") But all you got to do is look at the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

Seems many of them could be predatory attacks, but I'll admit the info is lacking. And I understand that in many cases a habituated bear is a major factor, but not always.

If a bear is big enough (comparitively speaking) and hungry enough I'd be worried, not so much for me but mainly for kids or small females. There are many cases where the bear was found near the body long after the kill (that's predation) and then you got the bears that take the very young, that's predation.


Here's what one animal behavoirst has to say http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_attacks

Unlike grizzly bears, which became a subject of fearsome legend among the European settlers of North America, black bears were rarely considered overly dangerous, even though they lived in areas where the pioneers had settled. Black bears rarely attack when confronted by humans, and usually limit themselves to making mock charges, emitting blowing noises and swatting the ground with their forepaws. However, according to Stephen Herrero (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Stephen_Herrero) in his Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance, 23 people were killed by black bears from 1900 to 1980. The number of black bear attacks on humans is higher than those of brown bears, though this is largely because the black species outnumbers the brown rather than their being more aggressive. Compared to brown bear attacks, violent encounters with black bears rarely lead to serious injury. However, the majority of black bear attacks tend to be motivated by hunger rather than territoriality, and thus victims have a higher probability of surviving by fighting back rather than submitting. Unlike grizzlies, female black bears do not display the same level of protectiveness to their cubs, and will seldom attack humans in their vicinity.[10] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-attacks-9) The worst recorded fatality incident occurred in May 1978, in which a black bear killed three teenagers whilst fishing in Algonquin Park in Canada.[11] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-kruuk-10) The majority of attacks happened in national parks, usually near campgrounds, where the bears had become habituated (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Habituation) to human contact and food.[10] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-attacks-9) 1028 incidences of black bears acting aggressively toward people, 107 of which resulted in injury, were recorded from 1964 to 1976 in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Great_Smoky_Mountains_National_Park), and occurred mainly in tourist hotspots, where people regularly fed the bears handouts.[11] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-kruuk-10)



Note to OP: Like I said before, very safe out there, these are just anomolies. I never carry bear spray and I sleep with my food in my tent.



:sun

wvgrinder
01-17-2011, 20:38
I lol'd all over myself just now

Here ya go: :D

sheepdog
01-17-2011, 21:14
You're more likely to get bit by a snake than mauled by a bear.
somehow I don't find that comforting :D