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View Full Version : do you think you food is save hanging under a tuna can in the shelter?



Former Admin
11-22-2002, 22:53
do you think you food is safe hanging under a tuna can in the shelter?

Former Admin
11-23-2002, 00:33
all of this is a ridiculous misconception and if you are concerned educate you fellow shelter mates and have them move the food. If your comfortable with it fine. Im not to concerned, however I have seen others that were.

However if not speak up, and most will kindly oblige with out any gruff. Don't be afraid to ask if it bothers you. Most hikers won't hold it against you.

chief
11-23-2002, 01:10
safe from tuna anyways.

Doctari
11-28-2003, 15:34
I have seen it work, the mousie would climb down the rope, get to the can & try to drop onto the bag.

I have also seen it not work, if someone used a bag that offered some grip.

My food bag is very slick, so works well. The bags that don't work, are made of heavy pack type cloth.

Doctari.

Moon Monster
11-29-2003, 21:24
My bag is silnylon (fairly slick, I'd say). It got hit once by a mouse while hanging longer than and underneath three or four other bags all on the same tuna-can string.

But, I've also had a mouse get into my closed car and chew up some TP for nesting material right in my back seat. I was parked at a trailhead in Slickrock Wild. in NC's Pisgah NF. (I guess it came in where the pedals go through the fire-wall.)

There are some enterprising mice out there. But, I still use the hangers and I put my pack on the nails/pegs. I'm a lemming.

As for bear, I tend to beleive in the theory that they stay away from shelters full of people, but there's always some stories of exception.

Lugnut
11-30-2003, 01:27
So far, so good. ;)

Peaks
11-30-2003, 10:38
Well, my experience is that I haven't had a problem using the hangers. And hangers seem to be removed at sites where there are bear problems, or there is another way to store food (bear box or cable or pole). Also, I read the shelter registers looking for notes about problems hanging food.

Nightwalker
11-30-2003, 14:21
do you think you food is safe hanging under a tuna can in the shelter?

No, the meeces are too athletic! I'll just be sleeping near the shelters--in my tent--for the camaraderie anyway. I currently hike a lot on a very solitary trail (Foothills Trail, SC, NC, bordering GA on the Chatooga), and though I love it, it'll be nice to actually see some folks! (SOBO, June '04)

Frank

Jaybird
02-11-2004, 07:57
do you think you food is safe hanging under a tuna can in the shelter?



man! the mice i've seen in most shelters have been around hikers so long....they dont fear anymore.....i wuz @ Silers Bald shelter last year along (May 2003) with (approx) 8 other hikers & the mice were "catching rides" on your shoes....they were crawling up your legs....while its still daylight!


tin can...tin schman! those mice are gonna get to your food! :p


see ya'll UP the trail!

MOWGLI
02-11-2004, 08:54
I hung my food from the shelter strings many nights during my thru hike, whether camped (due to bugs or snorers) or in the shelter. I never had a problem. Not one time.

There was this pesky Red Squirrel at Speck Pond Shelter. Persistant little bugger.

Brushy Sage
02-11-2004, 10:05
I carried my own tuna can and twine, complete with stick for supporting food bag and cooking bag (and still do when I am on overnighters). The bags are silicone-impregnated nylon, and I always hang them upside down (with the drawstring tight and tied with a safety knot). I didn't know it was better to have them inverted, until a thru hiker working at an outfitters advised me. Have never had a problem with mice, other critters, or rain getting in.

Youngblood
02-11-2004, 10:17
I never had a problem using the strings with tuna cans, but I don't believe that means that no one has or will have problems with that scheme. Seems like most of the shelters in my area (Georgia) have added food hanging systems ( called bear cables by some) and all the strings with tuna cans have been removed from the shelters. I have heard of isolated incidents where enterprising critters have found weaknesses in these systems.

There were stories last year of a bear at Hawk Mountain Shelter (7.6 miles north of Springer) that waited for hikers to retrieve their food from the cable system and would then 'bluff charge' in hopes of getting the hiker to drop their food bag. When I camped at Hawk Mountain Shelter last year, I did not see any bear... however, I did see signs posted that said something about "Bear Incidents". I don't recall these signs at other shelters in Georgia. I also saw small piles of stones inside the shelter which I figure where gathered to throw at any intruding bear. I think that this bear was removed from the area, but I am not sure. (They hunt bears in Georgia, so the ones that aren't skiddish and stay away from humans probably don't last too many seasons so even if it wasn't removed as a nuisance it might have gotten removed by a hunter.)

There was also a story of a bear at one of the shelters (I don't recall which one but I think it might have been Springer Mountain Shelter) that was able to push/pull on the cables with enough force to sometimes get the food bags to 'jump off' of the 'S' hooks that are used to attach them to the cable system. When I use the cable system I use the 'S' hook and TIE tie my food bag to the cable loop with its draw strings.

Another story I heard was that some small critters (probably mice) where able to get to the food on the cable system. I heard this at more than one shelter, I am thinking I heard this at Wood's Hole (26.6 miles north of Springer) and at Gooch Mountain Shelter (14.7 miles north of Springer). When I examined the cable system I could not see how this was possible, that is until I put my hands on it and then I saw what I think is the weakness that allows small critters to get past the save-guards in the cable system... corrossion. There are sleeves stategically placed along the cable system that are suppose to rotate and therefore dump any small critter that tries to climb up the cables. Some of them don't rotate anymore. I figure some of the mice discovered that. I don't bring any WD40 with me, so I try to pick a cable where the sleeve still rotates.

Youngblood

eldwayno
02-12-2004, 10:18
Well it may not exactly be a tin can... but it is an aluminum Bear Canister by Bearikade

One small problem with the tuna can string theory is squirrels... if you've never seen one of them buggers jump to try to land on the bag you would be in for one hell of a funny show... provides probably an hours worth of entertainment before bed... even funnier than the Simpsons.

Kozmic Zian
02-12-2004, 11:06
man! the mice i've seen in most shelters have been around hikers so long....they dont fear anymore.....i wuz @ Silers Bald shelter last year along (May 2003) with (approx) 8 other hikers & the mice were "catching rides" on your shoes....they were crawling up your legs....while its still daylight!


tin can...tin schman! those mice are gonna get to your food! :p


see ya'll UP the trail!
Yea.......Mice, I agree Jay. However,d anyone ever think maybe the solution was in the problem? The mices hang out in the shelters, 'cause the foods all hangin' there waiting for them in little bags in front of the shelter. Well, duh....why don' we take the little bags o' food outside the shelter and rig up a line between a couple o' trees, with a 'big trashcan lid', painted green of course, over them. That way the mices would stay away from jumpin in yo' sleeping bag at nite, 'cause they'd be too busy tryin to get in the outside food bags. With a big 'trash lid' over the food, hangin' under it, the mices would have a hell of a time gettin to the food. But like you said, They'ed figure it out eventually...ha.ha! KZ@

smokymtnsteve
02-12-2004, 11:49
mice are in shelters because of food. one of the mainthings that you can do to help redcuce the mouse population in shelters is to not eat in the shelter sleeping area, the crumbs that fall while you are eating is what attracts the mice to the shelter.

easier said than done when it is raining though

steve hiker
02-12-2004, 23:10
I see a lot of talk about mice, but what about rats? Seems to me the food littered shelters would be ideal breeding ground for the larger rodents. Like at garbage dumps.

azchipka
02-12-2004, 23:21
I had a friend who had a great solution to the mice, rats, and other same animals that decided to come in the shelter. A big old snake. Which brings me to the question. Anyone know any good reciepts that include mice, perhaps we can find a way to reduce the mouse problem.

Just a thought, personaly i wont be eating them but im sure we can find someone who will.

Rain Man
02-12-2004, 23:45
... When I camped at Hawk Mountain Shelter last year, I did not see any bear... however, I did see signs posted that said something about "Bear Incidents".

Another story I heard was that some small critters (probably mice) where able to get to the food on the cable system. I heard this at more than one shelter, I am thinking I heard this at Wood's Hole (26.6 miles north of Springer) and at Gooch Mountain Shelter (14.7 miles north of Springer).

Last August we stayed at Hawk Mountain Shelter... our very first night on the AT. Mice got into my food bag on the bear cable. Ate my M&Ms and cashews, the little twits! My good stuff!!!

Then in November at Low Gap Shelter, I saw a flying squirrel fly down to a tree next to the shelter during the night. He could get food bags on bear cables for sure, had he been up that way, but left mine alone that night. He should have helped himself to it, because I left it at Deep Gap Shelter the next day by accident.

Rain Man

.

hikerdude
11-14-2004, 17:06
It's the last thing I worry about:jump , the rats got to eat to.:jump Anyway the little food or damage they do is the least insignificant thing to worry about.:jump

As you see everyone uses a hammock, that should tell you something. cause at nite there is thousand and thousands of big and little rats scurrying all over the ground for scraps. The only way the rats get to you is to walk down you two main hitch lines. And you can mostly just knock em off with you hiking stick or just shake your hammock line. This one rat bit some hiker on the breast.:jump

grrickar
11-14-2004, 19:33
There should be another option in the poll - bear bagging. I always hang my food outside. When mice are especially bad, I put on my pack cover and hang it too. I have been in several shelters were someone would yell that there were mice all over their pack (which was in the shelter) and then they would comment it was after their trail mix or some other food they had inside. Anything that smells like food goes outside away from the shelter. In the GSMNP, the shelters had bear cables outside to make it easy. Furthermore, I can only recall a couple of the shelters that had the tuna can setups inside the shelter, so I presume the thinking behind that has changed.

Flash Hand
11-15-2004, 02:18
At Muskrat Shelter, Learned my lesson to hang my food under tuna rope, after a mice visited my pack hanged on shelter wall. Mice took some good munchies of brownies and cracker.


At Davenport Gap Shelter, beware, you might approach one or two most gifted mouses. One hiker put down in register that mice found a way to the bag and took some good late night dinner.


Also, a story shared to me by one of hiker at one of the hostel, that mice doesnt aim for food.. They even took hiker's stuff sack and bring it under shelter for a good chew. There is no food in it.

Flash Hand :jump

TakeABreak
11-15-2004, 03:58
I believe the food is safe from mice hanging under the tuna cans, but obviously if a bear wants it they will come in and get it. I also open all of the zippers on my pack when in a shelter, that the mice won't chew through my pack to get inside and investigate. I also try hang the pack so it is as difficult as possible for mice to get at.

What we need to do as hikers in capture black snakes and release them at shelters, that way they will eat the mice. I remember reading about an experiment where some maintainers were doing this several years ago but can not remember where I read it or on what part of the trail they were doing it on. But they stated they had found it to be working. If anyone knows where or when the article was written I would like to know, I would like to get a copy of it.

peter_pan
11-15-2004, 06:02
This could use a response option for," No, That's why I bear bag food,"

I think these are mice trapeez and the food is bait to get them to play...Good entertainment though.

Peaks
11-15-2004, 08:58
I believe the food is safe from mice hanging under the tuna cans, but obviously if a bear wants it they will come in and get it.

Shelters in bear country generally don't have tuna can hangers. They have a bear line or bear box instead. So, use them instead. Elsewhere, read the shelter register to find out if a bear is active in the area or not.

Footslogger
11-15-2004, 16:37
Only if you take the tuna out first. Seriously, it's about as safe there as on a tree limb, as long as it's high enough off the ground. Just know that the mice are fully capable of getting around the tuna cans ...so be sure and secure the bag.


'Slogger
AT 2003

Youngblood
11-15-2004, 18:39
For what its worth... sometimes when I stay at or near a shelter that has a food bag cable system I will throw a line over a tree branch a short distance away and hang my foodbag there. There are a few things I take into consideration when I do this; first is the condition of the varmit 'flippers' or 'stoppers' on the cable system, second is the information in the shelter journal and third is the availability of suitable trees.

If the varmit 'flippers' or 'stoppers' look insufficient and the shelter journal mentions varmits getting to the food bags, I'll find a suitable tree.

Youngblood

The Solemates
11-15-2004, 18:46
I always hang my food from the tuna cans and have never had a problem. Likewise, when on the AT, many times I sleep with my food inside my tent, and have never had much of a problem. I say much, because I have had mice attacks a few times, but nothing major. I always keep all pockets and stuff open anyways so they dont chew my gear. Sometimes I do hang it if I am on a particularly remote stretch of the AT like the Smokies or Maine.

Only if I go into deep country wear big game are known to flourish (like out west) do I change this. I do not consider the AT as having a high population of varmints that I dont want to mess with. Mice and ground scavengers are no real threat.

Lint
11-15-2004, 23:45
No mice defeated the tuna cans in the shleters I stayed in; except for one. It was up in Maine, and a mouse went right over that can and ate someones food. It just so happened that I had finished my 1.75 plastic bottle of whiskey and was able to rig it up as a mouse proof hanger. It would take a really looong mouse to reach around that big ol' bottle.
Plus, a whiskey bottle looked much better than a tuna can.

rpettit
12-24-2004, 17:28
I am a victim of the bear cable set up in Ga. Just this past September, forgot the shelter, dang mouse ate a few of my honey roasted peanuts, then just to piss me off, ate some of my dry roasted almonds. I hung my hammock near the shelter just for the convenience of the bear cables. I have never had any problems when I don't camp near shelters and properly hang a bear bag with some cheap nylon cord. Lesson learned.

steve hiker
12-24-2004, 20:11
I've wondered how mice get to food hung on bear cables, and I think I've figured it out. They probably climb up the pulley wires that go from the tree to main line. Unlike the main wire strung between the trees up high, there's no barrier on the pulley wires.

neo
12-25-2004, 06:15
it always worked for me:sun neo

Youngblood
12-25-2004, 10:12
I've wondered how mice get to food hung on bear cables, and I think I've figured it out. They probably climb up the pulley wires that go from the tree to main line. Unlike the main wire strung between the trees up high, there's no barrier on the pulley wires.
There were post about mice and bear cables earlier. I did a search and found one of my posts here: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=20829&highlight=bear+cable+mice#post20829

Skyline
08-27-2005, 07:46
Faulty poll. There is no choice that simply says "No."

Because you shouldn't store food IN shelters. It attracts mice, rats, raccoons, bears, insects.

In places like SNP, with a big bear population, mouse hangers are supposed to be taken down by maintainers when people put them up. Hanging food in shelters has been the cause of human/bear conflicts in the past which could have been very tragic.

jlb2012
08-27-2005, 12:14
Hey Skyline - what happened to the PATC forum - looks like hypernews Dan gave up on it?

Skyline
08-27-2005, 14:39
Hey Skyline - what happened to the PATC forum - looks like hypernews Dan gave up on it?

No clue. It's gone down before only to come back up a couple weeks later. I figured on making an inquiry to Vienna if it wasn't back up in a few weeks.

LEGS
08-27-2005, 14:49
Guess It All Goes Back To Lw's Therory. Dont Stay In The Shelter!!!!!! What Do You Carry A Tent For Anyway? Eat At The Shelter Out Of The Rain And Snow And Sleep In Your Tent.

Footslogger
08-27-2005, 15:03
If there are people in the shelter it is pretty safe from bears. The vast majority of bears will not enter a shelter occupied by hikers unless they are REALLY hungry or have gotten food there in the past.

It's the mice that will get it. One night's observation of mice gymnastics in a shelter and I was convinced that they are your real concern.

'Slogger

teachergal
08-27-2005, 16:06
I was wondering the same thing - PATC forum has been down for more than a week now and I miss you guys!!!!

I e-mailed Mr. Hiltz and asked him but haven't heard back from him either....hmmmm.....

If either of you hear anything post here or send me a private message. :)

Skyline
08-27-2005, 19:12
If there are people in the shelter it is pretty safe from bears. The vast majority of bears will not enter a shelter occupied by hikers unless they are REALLY hungry or have gotten food there in the past.

It's the mice that will get it. One night's observation of mice gymnastics in a shelter and I was convinced that they are your real concern.

'Slogger


Several years ago, when we were more lax on the issue of hanging food inside SNP overnight huts, a maurading bear did enter a PACKED Pinefield Gap Hut and those sleeping were lucky to not be injured or worse. Their food was not so lucky. This situation has been repeated not only in shelters, but with those who insist on sleeping with food in their tents. The number of humans present didn't seem to matter.

Just last summer, I was present one early June evening at at a VERY crowded shelter I maintain (NOBO prime time, plus there was a Boy Scout Troop present) and at dinner time TWO bears made pests of themselves because of the food being cooked. Fortunately banging pots together and yelling sent them scampering, but had that food been present and the inhabitants silent (sleeping) probably there would have been a confrontation. Same scenario is common at the Park's commercial campgrounds.

Actually, I've personally had more issues with raccoons than bears. They are more opportunistic, sometimes travel in small groups, can be downright destructive, can even be rabid.

Without a doubt, mice are also a big problem at shelters--maybe the biggest problem if you go by number of incidents alone, though bears and raccoons are more potentially dangerous.

The universal recommended solution: Don't store food in a shelter. Hang from a tree branch at least 10 ft. up and 4 ft. out from the main trunk--preferably higher and further. Or, if a bear pole, pulley system, or container is provided--use that.

Skyline
08-27-2005, 19:33
I am a victim of the bear cable set up in Ga. Just this past September, forgot the shelter, dang mouse ate a few of my honey roasted peanuts, then just to piss me off, ate some of my dry roasted almonds. I hung my hammock near the shelter just for the convenience of the bear cables. I have never had any problems when I don't camp near shelters and properly hang a bear bag with some cheap nylon cord. Lesson learned.


Exactly. This is one of the reasons current thinking about camping near shelters involves creating designated tentsites 100 yds. or further FROM the shelter, and prohibiting camping closer. The ATC magazine had a big feature on this a few issues ago--regarding design of new INDIVIDUAL tentsites cut into sidehill vs. grouped closely on level ground in a kind of tentsite ghetto (see attributes below). It seems to be working well wherever it's been implemented.

Of course, it requires the cooperation of hikers, some of whom for some reason feel like they need to set up their tents right next to the shelter. Seems to me if the tentsites are located further away but are a pleasure to use (dispersed, in a visually appealing setting, level, rock-free, large enough, etc.) they will be more likely to be used.

fiddlehead
09-18-2005, 05:58
wo
I had a friend who had a great solution to the mice, rats, and other same animals that decided to come in the shelter. A big old snake. Which brings me to the question. Anyone know any good reciepts that include mice, perhaps we can find a way to reduce the mouse problem.

Just a thought, personaly i wont be eating them but im sure we can find someone who will.
You need to read a book by Farley Mowat called "Never Cry Wolf" He tries about everyway you could think of to prepare mice for eating. Including putting the whole thing in a blender and drinking it.
When the mice try to go up your pants leg in the daylight (from another post above) that's when it's time to start carrying mousetraps.

Teatime
09-18-2005, 14:45
To me, it's just common sense not to eat or store food where you sleep. Like some others, I bear bag my food bag and put anything with an odor in it as well. I sometimes also hang my pack. So far, I haven't had any problems at all (except when I left my pack in the garage to long and some birds built a nest in the lid pocket!):p
I made a comment about mothballs on another forum and got lambasted for it. So, here goes again...Has anyone ever used mothballs or cedar chunks in attempt to mask food bag odors? I haven't done this myself but read about some guy who placed mothballs around his tent (hey, garlic keeps Vampires away, right?) and never had a problem. Of course, I've never done this and have never had a problem either. I am very particular about hanging anything that has a food odor or sweet smell.

sliderule
09-19-2005, 13:25
I haven't done this myself but read about some guy who placed mothballs around his tent (hey, garlic keeps Vampires away, right?) and never had a problem. .I don't put anything around my tent, and I have never had a problem with either bears or vampires. But I read somewhere that mothballs attract vampires!!!