AT success rate inflated by comforts

[lobster]

1. oodles of hostels
2. trail magic
3. friends and family meeting up with hikers
4. slackpacking
5. cell phones

I wonder how low the success rate would be for thru-hikes if not for the increasingly more common instances of trail help?

I'm not talking about light-weight gear which helps the physical side of hiking which obviously carries over to the mental side. I'm referring to the opportunities for spirit raising things like a soft bed, a call to a loved one from a mountain top, a meal at a road crossing, etc.

[Lion King]

Check CDT stats.

[dharmabum86]

Where would someone find the number of thru-hikes ever completed on the AT and where would you find the CDT stats at? It's probably right under my nose:p

[Blue Jay]

Yes, back in my day we walked backwards on broken glass the whole way with an angry wolverine in our packs. Those damn slackers today.

[A-Train]

Lobster:

This is not the first time you have posted this thread idea and you just recently inquired about finding an online list of people so that you could find all those who didn't walk the whole trail. What is your deal? Are you that bored with life that you have to knock the accomplishments of men and women who had the guile to go plan a long walk, executed it and had a wonderful time in the process?

What are you trying to accomplish, i'm really interested. Have you walked the whole AT? What is the fascination? Did you hike every inch of the trail on your hands and knees, blind, with 200 lbs on your back?

Yes there are tons of "thru-hikers" who didn't walk the whole trail. Yes more hostels are up than ten yrs ago and there are more trail angels. But you also still have to walk up and down hills, that certainly hasn't changed.

Anyway, I hope you respond, but I won't wait around

[steve hiker]

I like the thread. Trail angels at every road crossing has got to suck.

[Frosty]

Yes, back in my day we walked backwards on broken glass the whole way with an angry wolverine in our packs. Those damn slackers today.Didn't it snow every day back then, except for a week or so with a hurricane and/or tornadoes, and or course a straight month of 100+ degree temps and all the water sources dried up? I remember those days. The mountains were steeper, too, and taller, if I recall.

[lobster]

It's funny how folks get defensive if they think somebody is belittling their accomplishments. They often couch their comments in humor.

Instead of getting defensive, why not broach the subject of whether the public's perception of the AT may change and whether this may have negative repercussions for the trail, such as funding, etc.

By the way, the trails were steeper! Switchbacking, especially in the Nantahalas, has made things easier. It probably evens out with trails being taken off roads and the length of trail increased.

[Blue Jay]

Didn't it snow every day back then, except for a week or so with a hurricane and/or tornadoes, and or course a straight month of 100+ degree temps and all the water sources dried up? I remember those days. The mountains were steeper, too, and taller, if I recall.

No, it snowed DURING the tornados and the only thing we had to drink was dirt. We couldn't afford mountains, we had to climb each other.

[Blue Jay]

Instead of getting defensive, why not broach the subject of whether the public's perception of the AT may change and whether this may have negative repercussions for the trail, such as funding, etc.

By the way, the trails were steeper! Switchbacking, especially in the Nantahalas, has made things easier. It probably evens out with trails being taken off roads and the length of trail increased.

Defensive about what? Don't you have to make some logical statement that has some importance to me so I can be defensive about it. I like being defensive, but you have to work with me here. As for the public's perception of the AT, they don't have one. Most people have no idea the AT exists. As for funding, are you from another planet? The ATC has no money and you won't even buy a subscription to their publication so you can make fun of thruhikers. You are correct about the Nantahalas, you used to have to tie a rope to your belt and pull yourself up the hill.

[A-Train]

Just as I thought Lobster. You didn't answer any of my questions, though it's OK since I pretty much knew all the answers to them anyway :)

Your only intention is to stir the pot here and cause trouble. This is the THIRD! time you've brought up a thread like this in the last 3 weeks. No one was getting defensive at all, you just clearly want to cause drama.

Don't try to avoid the questions by saying we should worry about what the public thinks. The public doesn't give a hoot about the AT, the folks in the community do.

Lastly, if you're so concerned with calling out hikers who haven't hiked the whole trail or who have recieved trail magic, well then I have a suggestion (since you seem to have so much free time to speculate). Why not go down to Springer in March and track all the hikers. You can go down with a clip board and write everyone's name down and then mark off when they get a free soda or ride. You can also count the number of skipped miles. Then in September you can go up to Katahdin and call them all out and proclaim that they actually aren't thru-hikers. Wouldn't that be a hoot!

[The Old Fhart]

I personally think that the toughest thing to climb is what Blue Jay and Frosty are piling up. I'm really enjoying reading this thread, keep up the good work, guys. Your replies are much more meaningful than the original question.

Lobster's using the word "inflated" seems to imply that the number or percentage of hikers finishing falls into the same category that Frosty and Blue Jay have so eloquently described- I disagree that this has changed. I would say that the success rate might be slightly higher today than in the past because of better equipment and preparation but there are many more people starting.

I think that the success rate might dip slightly once Lobster institutes his mandatory drug testing of thru-hikers or having to log in at checkpoints. As to his statement:
Instead of getting defensive, why not broach the subject of whether the public's perception of the AT may change and whether this may have negative repercussions for the trail, such as funding, etc. the outside world’s opinion of hikers has actually improved as more stories about the A.T. appear in newspapers and on TV. When I first set foot on the trail people thought all thru-hikers were bums, now it is down to 50%. :sun

[Blue Jay]

Damn, I was sure Old Fhart was going to say it was harder back when we couldn't afford feet.

[weary]

1. oodles of hostels
2. trail magic
3. friends and family meeting up with hikers
4. slackpacking
5. cell phones

I wonder how low the success rate would be for thru-hikes if not for the increasingly more common instances of trail help?

I'm not talking about light-weight gear which helps the physical side of hiking which obviously carries over to the mental side. I'm referring to the opportunities for spirit raising things like a soft bed, a call to a loved one from a mountain top, a meal at a road crossing, etc.
I suspect most of these things are either neutral or perhaps, even detrimental to successfully completing a thru hike. A hostel every few days certainly helps the budget slightly. The rest are as apt to be distractions as benefits in my experience.

[Lone Wolf]

Rusty's Hard Time Hollow caused 100s of thru-hikers to fail to reach Katahdin.

[Skeemer]

#1. Loved the hostels especially Miss Janets, The Cabin and Kincora. You forgot the motels with cable TV...loved em!

#2. Really appreciated the trail magic..."Apple" was the best. Always liked the break time and the conversation was appreciated too.

#3. Oops...my wife met me once at Harpers Ferry and my parents once in the Smokies.

#4. Didn't slackpack...just wanted to see for myself if I could HMOH.

#5. No cell phone...cost, weight, re-charging, etc.

I was famous for taking zeros in town, especially in bad weather when I loved going out for a steak. I'm sure these contributed to my being able to complete my thru-hike. But why should that matter to anyone other than myself???? It did seem to bother one dip**** who sent me a message saying that "when I got to missing the trail I should put on my backpack and go into town for a steak." The way I hiked or didn't hike must have bothered him.

I enjoyed my hike and the Trail immensely...and all the above contributed to it.

Thanks A-Train & Blue Jay for recognizing the obvious.

[hungryhowie]

I don't dispute that having more comforts can "recharge" a person mentally, an increase his or her chances of completing a thruhike, but I think the vast increase of online activity regarding the trail has had an even greater effect. 5 years ago, there were far fewer sites like these on the web (trailplace may have been the only one, actually), and the only journals online were those on personal websites. Planning involved running into someone at a local outfitter who'd hiked part (or all) of the AT and taking their advice to heart. The only planning guides were by Christopher Walken (he last hiked the trail in the mid-80s!), or WFs (Out of print since 93(?), but still better than Walken's).

Now if you want advice about hiking the AT, you can search databases of online forums, find specific questions that you have, or ask new questions and get throughtful responses from dozens of thruhikers. If you want to read about the experience, Trailjournals stores the writings of thousands of thruhikers on the AT alone. Much more than the comforts available to hikers on the trail, I think it is these things that have increased the success rate for thruhikers the most.

I would bet that the average aspiring thruhiker on Springer Mountain in 2005 has a much better grasp of what to expect in the next 2000 miles than did one 10 years ago.

Lobster, your assertion that the trail is not as steep now would be refuted by the late Earl Schaffer, who said several times during his last thruhike that the trail had only gotten steeper.

-howie


1. oodles of hostels
2. trail magic
3. friends and family meeting up with hikers
4. slackpacking
5. cell phones

I wonder how low the success rate would be for thru-hikes if not for the increasingly more common instances of trail help?

I'm not talking about light-weight gear which helps the physical side of hiking which obviously carries over to the mental side. I'm referring to the opportunities for spirit raising things like a soft bed, a call to a loved one from a mountain top, a meal at a road crossing, etc.

[wacocelt]

Christopher Walken

That can't be the actor Christopher Walken?

lobster, if you aren't trying to disparage the people who complete the trail, you could always quit dodging the question and give a clear answer as to why you are so curious about the completion rates and fringe benifits of todays hikers. Hope that logic isn't too vague for you.

[TankHiker]

All this "trail help" also helps makes it a lot easier to quit the trail. I knew many hikers who went into town with every intention of hiking back out, but never did. It's a lot easier to get home when you have a cell phone, family, or a trail angel for a ride.

-TANK

[Footslogger]

All this "trail help" also helps makes it a lot easier to quit the trail. I knew many hikers who went into town with every intention of hiking back out, but never did. It's a lot easier to get home when you have a cell phone, family, or a trail angel for a ride.

-TANK====================

Sooooo True !!

[Skeemer]

hungryhowie wrote:
If you want to read about the experience, Trailjournals stores the writings of thousands of thruhikers on the AT alone. Much more than the comforts available to hikers on the trail, I think it is these things that have increased the success rate for thruhikers the most.

Wish I'd thought of that. I followed 8 hikers in '02 on Trailjournals and copied much of their gear. Also, followed a guy my age which helped me in projecting the miles I could do each day.

I would like to see lobster awswer wacocelt's post.

[wacocelt]

If he does it will be about Christopher Walken! :D

[Jack Tarlin]

The guy who wrote the old planning guide was named WHALEN.

Christopher Walken is an extraordinarily accomplished actor, but he hasn't thru-hiked, unless Howie is better informed on this than I am.

[Lone Wolf]

Walken ruled in "The Deer Hunter".

[bearbait2k4]

The trails were steeper, there are more comforts, more trail angels, bla bla bla.

It really does sound like a condescending tone, so it doesn't surprise me that you'd get defensive posts from people who have done this.

I can't imagine anyone saying that the AT is easy, or any type of living in the wilderness for 5-6 months is easy, for that matter. You can condition your body to almost anything....the mind is something else. You can be in great physical shape, but of weak mind, and that will keep you from completing the trail. You can also miss a lot of the trail magic by not hitting roads on weekends, etc. It's not like it's out there, 24/7. A lot of people, still, don't opt for towns, meeting up with friends, or using cell phones. So, I guess you'd have to do a case-by-case study of every completed thru-hiker to see what their ammenities were along the trail before you started assuming what they did or used.

There are easier parts, and more difficult parts as well. The trail length increases every year. The weather gets more unpredictable with every passing year. As with snowflakes, there are never any two hikes that are alike.

I'm sure there are common comforts we have now that didn't exist 10 years ago. I'm also sure that there were also common comforts that existed 10 years ago that weren't present 20, 30, and 40 years ago. There is, however, always a new conflict to arise when one is taken away. I'm sure, for instance, that those who hiked 3, 5, 10 or even decades ago saw more living trees and more pristine wilderness at the end of the day than we currently do. That's one of the reasons you are out there, and to get on the ridges in the Smokies for a few days, and to see all the trees dying is kind of a downer.

So, don't worry, the homeostasis of the trail almost always stays the same.

[wacocelt]

The guy who wrote the old planning guide was named WHALEN.

Thanks for clearing that up Jack, now let's get back to boiling lobster.

Do you think Attroll would let us vote to open a specific group for our favorite trolls? That way when they open or flood a thread we could just move it over there to get our daily dose of nonsense?

[Skeemer]

Should have won an Oscar for "The Deer Hunter"

[Lone Wolf]

HOMEOSTASIS. Had to look that one up. I think the AT is easy.

[Jack Tarlin]

Skeemer said Walken should have won an Oscar for "The Deer Hunter."

Well, he did. His performance in that film won Best Supporting Actor of the year, which if memory serves, was in 1978.

Back to the subject, re. planning guides. Whalen's book is OK, but somewhat out of date. Dan Bruce's planning guide was better, but is impossible to find.

With any luck, there'll be a new, comprehensive planning guide for planning and preparing an A.T. thru-hike coming out by early 2006.

The author is someone I know rather well, and he finally seems to have gotten things together in terms of wrtiting this book.

Will keep you all informed on this as things progress.

[Footslogger]

HOMEOSTASIS. Had to look that one up. I think the AT is easy.===========================
Yeah ...the AT is a lot like my time in the military (1968 - 1971). After it was all over it seemed a lot easier !!

This is not the right time to spew about the relative difficulty of the AT. Table this thread and resurrect it in the middle of next year's hiking season.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[grrickar]

I'd venture to guess that more people finish now days because more people are hiking the AT.

[rocket04]

I'd venture to guess that more people finish now days because more people are hiking the AT. I think people are alluding to the fact that percentage-wise, more people are succeeding. Which, of course, in no way diminishes the accomplishment.

[tribes]

All of the modern comforts in the world(ie. cellphones, angels, hostels) have not changed this fact. Statistics still show that one is far more likely to fail in hiking the entire trail then they are to succeed. 2100+ miles is still alot of friggin' miles and nobody should be here on this site attempting to discount anyone's accomplishments on the trail. Whether they hiked in 73' or 04' should not be an issue. Once you complete the trail you are in that club forever. I cannot wait to become a member. "That's all I have to say about that..."

TRI :sun BES 05'

ps: Is it April one yet????

[Peaks]

1. oodles of hostels
2. trail magic
3. friends and family meeting up with hikers
4. slackpacking
5. cell phones

I wonder how low the success rate would be for thru-hikes if not for the increasingly more common instances of trail help?

I'm not talking about light-weight gear which helps the physical side of hiking which obviously carries over to the mental side. I'm referring to the opportunities for spirit raising things like a soft bed, a call to a loved one from a mountain top, a meal at a road crossing, etc.

There is no way to answer this. The AT is the way the AT is. Everyone who does the AT does it their own way. Some slackpack, some don't. Some carry cell phones, some don't. So forth. It's called hike your own hike.

[grrickar]

At the end of it all, the "thru" still hiked all those miles, in adverse weather, and slept in tents and shelters more times in 6 months than most people do in a lifetime. Personally I'd consider it an accomplishment regardless of how many times the hiker stayed in hotels, hostels, accepted trail magic, etc.

[Skyline]

As time goes on, reported completions, and more importantly the percentage of reported completions vs. those that began in a given year, has inched upwards. Many reasons, not just one or two.

One that hasn't been mentioned here is that in any given year a person who reported a finally-completed multi-year section hike is included in that year's total. This must have some effect on the skewing of the percentages. For example, I hiked every year from '96 thru '03, except one, and they count me as part of the Class of '03. But I was NOT in the group that left Springer (or Katahdin) that year.

It was a great hike anyway.

[lobster]

Who said the trail was "easy"? It is just "easier" with all the amenities. I would agree that these same amenities possibly cause some hikers to lose focus and not finish the trail, but I would guess that more people stay because of them than are lost.

The trail wasn't as long when Earl hiked originally and he had a lot of road walking so I can see him saying it was more difficult the last time. Also, being older might have caused the trail to seem that way.

[Frosty]

Damn, I was sure Old Fhart was going to say it was harder back when we couldn't afford feet.You had FEET? And I'll bet you had hands, too, you cheater. We had to pull ourselves along with our eyelashes.

[lobster]

Wacocelt,

What did you want to know?

[Footslogger]

Is this thread about the relative ease of hiking the AT from END TO END ??

Something to ponder in looking back over some of the posts ....

'Slogger
AT 2003

[The Old Fhart]

Wacocelt:-"lobster, if you aren't trying to disparage the people who complete the trail, you could always quit dodging the question and give a clear answer as to why you are so curious about the completion rates and fringe benifits of todays hikers. Hope that logic isn't too vague for you."

Lobster:- "Wacocelt,What did you want to know?" I figured out what the question was without any help................... :)

[Lion King]

Should have won an Oscar for "The Deer Hunter"
I hear Walken is playing Wahlen in the film named after the book coming out this year.


Lion King slowly pulls his double-barrell shotgun out of the Gun Cabinet...loads it with high-octane ballbusting buckshot...and fills this dead horse with a little more lead.

[Kitty Litter]

the outside world’s opinion of hikers has actually improved as more stories about the A.T. appear in newspapers and on TV. When I first set foot on the trail people thought all thru-hikers were bums, now it is down to 50%. :sun

** TOF: Hope we meet up on trail. Like your philosophy! Of course, then your perception of thru-hikers being bums would increase again.
Kitty Litter

[Blue Jay]

** TOF: Hope we meet up on trail. Like your philosophy! Of course, then your perception of thru-hikers being bums would increase again.
Kitty Litter

The term is hiker trash not bums. Bums are what happens if hiker trash does not get out of town, kind of like Lone Wolf. Please, I'm just kidding, Lone Wolf and I are clearly hiker trash.

[Lone Wolf]

I coined the term "hiker trash".

[wacocelt]

What did you want to know? posted by lobster

My question relates to your constant request for statistics and otherwise snyde and disparaging remarks about the completion rate of Thru-Hikers. I would honestly like to know the reasoning behind your requests. If there is an even remotely constructive reasoning behind your need for the information then I will personally help you find the information in anyway I can. I sincerely doubt, however, noting your general tone of disgust, that anything you would do with the compiled information would come anywhere near worthy of mine of anyones else on Whiteblaze.net's time.
I haven't looked at your post history to determine whether you have hiked any of the AT, or hiked anywhere at all for that matter, muchless completed a Thru-Hike and honestly I don't care. If you have then perhaps you need to go out and do it again because you obviously completely missed every possible positive aspect of the trail and need an overhaul on your miserly opinion of other peoples accomplishments.

I believe that fairly well sums up my question and I look forward to whatever gibberish you reply with trying to candy coat your trolling.

[wacocelt]

OK, I finally got fed up with your tripe and after reading your posts that actually talk about your hike, have come to the conclusion that since YOU didn't hike the entire AT and since YOU registered for your completion certificate that YOU carry guilt and embarassment about YOUR lack of accomplishment and inabitliy to complete a Thru-Hike to YOUR standards, the rest of us have to pay the price.
My question is, do you spam the people you went to high School with about the days they skipped school or didn't turn in thier homework? Or have you focussed completely on the AT community at large to torture with YOUR guilt and lack of self worth?

Now, all that said, I hope that you can come to grips with the fact that if you even did half the trail that you made a major personal accomplishment that very, very few other people could attain. I give credit to people who merely state a wish to do the trail at all, muchless actually walk miles on it. Please, please give yourself a pat on the back, try and recall the good times and friends you made and let go of this vendetta against yourself through your attacks on people you don't and probably will never know. I wish you the best and hope you can get back outdoors and into the good life soon. Be well.

Christopher

[Spirit Walker]

Actually the success rate for the PCT and CDT are close to 50%. For the PCT it depends largely on snow conditions - fewer complete the trail in an El Nino year, for example. On the CDT snow and fires force a lot of folks off the trail at one point or another and as Lynne Weldon said, "Bad luck seems to happen to a lot of CDT hikers." The big difference in completion rates is that AT hikers often have no experience before they start the trail. Because of the shelter system and frequent road crossings they assume that it is easier than it in fact is. Because they have generally never done any real backpacking, when faced with several days of rain or eight hours a day of hiking for day after day after day, they soon give up. Western hikers are more likely to have prior experience before starting on one of the long trails, especially on the CDT. They have done at least a few two week hikes, or longer. Many of the PCT hikers we saw give up and go home in the first few weeks were complete neophytes who had no idea what they were getting into. Same as the AT.

Having hostels and cell phones and radios and family visits changes the character of your hike, but they don't really make it easier on a day to day basis. You still have to walk 2100 or 2400 or 2700 miles in all kinds of weather. You still carry yourself up and down those mountains. Without shelters there would be fewer hikers out there, because of the AT's constant rain, but they would still be there. Try hiking out west sometime - few if any shelters, and the trails are so packed you have to get a permit to backpack, and in some places even to dayhike.

[rickb]

I am thinking a part of why more people complete the AT than in the past is that the really believe that they can.

Its so dramatic as what happened after Roger Banister broke the 4 minute mile, but since I am prone to hyperbole when it comes to the Trail....

The internet, books and media and personal example shown by so many different sorts of people have all helped with that.

Rick B

[lobster]

Wacocelt,

1. I didn't send in for a certificate. That was a joke.

2. I have yellow-blazed and blue-blazed, sometimes making things easier and sometimes making things tougher. Hitched and walked to Gettysburg and walked around the battlefield, long uphill walk(couldn't get ride) out of Buena Vista to get back to the trail, hitch and walk into Washington DC for the 4th of July, yellow-blaze and then walk up the expert ski trails on Killington to get back to trail, hiked peaks of Otter on a day off, etc. Oh, and also the Creeper out of Damascus.

3. It is a disturbing trend when more and more folks try to devise ways to make their hikes easier. Slackpacking, etc..... I am of the opinion that the more physical or mental pain, the more gain! Just my experienced opinion! If I was a self-acclaimed purist, I would assume I would be told to HMOH. If I had little AT experience, I could be told that I shouldn't judge without doing. I think I am in a position to state an opinion.

4. I love "hiker trash", but if everybody becomes "hiker trash", what will be the notoriety(wrong word?) in it? Note, "hiker trash" can also be purists!

[Blue Jay]

Note, "hiker trash" can also be purists!

Only if they use super glue where the sun rarely shines. This could happen but it would be accidental.

[wacocelt]

I appreciate your candid and as i predicted 'candy coated' reply, yet would like to point out that you have yet again completely avoided my question about why you require the lists of completed Thru-Hikers or any other information. Regardless of what people do to make thier hikes/lives easier, it still doesn't change the fact that they have taken a very sizable amount of thier lives to spend time away from friends, family and the creature comforts offered by not being on or near the trail in the first place, to experience an adventure in the woods.
It's great that you've endured some hardships on the trail, so have the same people who have slack-packed, yellow-blazed or used hiking poles with cellphones hanging from them. I find it rather redundant that you continually pick at the accomplishments of others because they happened to want a bit of comfort mixed in with thier misery.
It seems to me that you would prefer the AT to be a Trail of Tears or Batan Death March.

I will begin my 2005 Thru-Hike attempt January 1st. I'm sure I'll be experienecing more than enough cold weather and bad days to give you wood for a month, so feel free to use the link in my signature and email your complaints and insults about my days at hostels and meals in restaurants which I will be posting about. Perhaps I'll even slack-pack a time or three and REALLY make your day.

I have tried my best to be civil, but I must give in and say that you sir are an ********.

[Lone Wolf]

I'm gonna slack waco the very first day!

[wacocelt]

Yup! Springer to Neel's Gap in one day!


Erm, maybe not, umm. We'll figure out the logistics later, but Yeah!

[Lone Wolf]

Springer to Woody Gap, then drive into Dahlonega for a motel & buffet. :D

[wacocelt]

Springer to Woody Gap, then drive into Dahlonega for a motel & buffet.

:banana :banana :banana :banana :banana

I bet poor lobster is pounding his face against his monitor right now.











Now, replace bet with hope and poor with whatever colorful decriptive you prefer.

[wacocelt]

I'm never serious, even when I'm joking!

[lobster]

Wacocelt,

I would like to see if there is anyone I know that falsely sent for their certificate. Just curious! I won't call the police unless it was a grievous falsehood!

Don't hang around with Lone Wolf!! He's a bad influence.

[Lone Wolf]

Only the weak and timid can be influenced.

[The Old Fhart]

Your arguement has influenced me, Lone Wolf! :)

[hungryhowie]

Details, details. Walken, Whalen...there's just a couple of letters difference. Boy do I feel sheepish :rolleyes:

To my credit, although I own both, I just haven't taken them off of the shelf in years. Better luck next time, eh?

-howie

[Dharma]

1. oodles of hostels
2. trail magic
3. friends and family meeting up with hikers
4. slackpacking
5. cell phones

I wonder how low the success rate would be for thru-hikes if not for the increasingly more common instances of trail help?

From the existential desk of Dharma - - -
Your #1-5 above would seem to increase the chances of a successful thru hike, but the choices here are mutually exclusive.

In recent years, hikers have been choosing to experience their hike with more ease: magic, hostels, slacking, etc.
And, lately, a higher percentage of hikers have been choosing to complete their thru hikes.

Removing the choice for ease does not effect the choice to finish. You seem to think the two are related. They are not. Stop searching for that connection. It's not there.

[tlbj6142]

I would like to see if there is anyone I know that falsely sent for their certificate.I'm sure there are plenty of folks that wanted the certificate (not sure why they would) that didn't meet the requirements.

I also don't think the completion numbers are based on certificate request, correct?

[lobster]

You are correct.

By the way, any thoughts on why the numbers were down this year?

[bearbait2k4]

I believe the start rates were down this year as well, so that would probably explain completion rates being down.

[weary]

You are correct.
By the way, any thoughts on why the numbers were down this year?
I think anyone who walks between Springer Mountain in Georgia and Katahdin in Maine should have a certificate if they want one. Most elementary computer publishing programs will print out very pretty certificates very easily. But if anyone can't do it, I would be glad to print one for them. Just send me a stamped, self-addressed envelope.

The Appalachian Trail Conference also issues certificates to those who claim to have walked "every mile" of the Appalachian Trail between the two points. This always has struck me as a bit too restrictive, since it seems to exclude folks like me who go to trails mostly to explore the countryside. I consider it impolite, for instance, to ignore a blue-blazed loop trail built by some trail maintaining club to enhance the hiker's experience.

At a minimum, I would modify the rules to allow folks to walk between the two points anyway they want, providing they stayed within the designated Appalachian Trail Corridor.

But then I don't really know what the conference means when it talks of "every mile." Do they really mean "every inch" i.e. "all" the trail, or just part of every mile. If ATC means all, I wonder why they don't say so, and cut out the bit about every mile.

None of this, of course, really makes much difference in the real world. People interpret the rules anyway they want. I was puzzled when Mountain Mama's drove us back to the trail and Shoeless Mare insisted on being taken back to the hostel, since we had been dropped a mile north of where most of us had left the trail the day before. Most in the crowded truck just thanked the driver and kept going. Again 100 miles further north Silver Springs walked back down 200 yards of road that formed part of the trail after a friendly driver we had hitched a ride with chose that as a safer place to turn around.

As a result of these incidents, it dawned on me that some were insisting on passing every white blaze. It took that long because almost no one else in 1993 seemed to be doing so.

Weary

[JillJones]

Each individual sooner or later has to come to terms with what they feel is a thru hike and what the ATC says is a Thru Hike. I don’t doubt, there are some people who honestly don’t know and some just don’t care. I also understand why some who’ve really done the ATC version have a problem with people claiming the same accomplishment. It should be an individual matter, (HYOH), however, it’s human nature to want others to know our accomplishments and not have them tarnished, belittled or minimized.

I’ve had people say to me, “Well, it can’t be that hard, because my mother, brother,aunt, friend, my cat, whoever did it, and they have a hard time walking around the block.
I was talking about Mt Washington, (The climb in bad weather) to some co-workers. One woman who came in on the middle of the conversation, said her sister use to go up there all the time, and its no big deal. Later, talking with her, it turns out, her sister had in fact been to the summit of Mt Washington over 25 times and had the bummer sticker on her vehicle to prove it. “This Vehicle climbed Mt. Washington” You can buy them at the gift shop.

[wacocelt]

You'll find these days that people will quickly discount anything which doesn't interest or impress them. Alot of folks will look at the accomplishments or experiences of others and treat them as if they watched it on television instead of actually living it.

An example. I was at the 'Outfitter' here in town trying on different pairs of Trail Runners for my up-coming Thru hike. The attendant I was dealing with was very helpful and patient, considering I had tried on about 10 pairs already. Another employess walks up, having overheard only a small fragment of our conversation, and decides to take charge.

Employee #2 "If you're winter hiking you'll want a stury Gortex Boot, like these," proceeds to grab the biggest, heaviest boot on the wall.

Emp #1 "He's already done alot of trail miles and prefers..." is interrupted

Emp #2 "The have goretex lining, heavy duty insulation..."

Me "I've hiked over a thousand miles in all kinds of weather and prefer trail runners, we're doing fine, thanks."

Emp #2 "Right, well these will be much better than those because..."

Me "How old are you?"

Emp #2 "21."

Me "Do you hike?"

#2 "Yeah, all the time. My family goes to our cabin Colorado three or four times a year."

Me "Great! Have you hiked more than a week at a time?"

#2 "No. Just for a few hours around the lake."

Me "Were you carrying a 30 pound pack with 3 days food and water?"

#2 "No," He laughs, "We had food at the cabin!" As if he has just scored his coup de grace


I just shook my head and groaned.

He still didn't relent, he was convinced that He knew what I needed because He sold shoes and weekended at some lake cabin in Colorado. He absolutely and redundantly refused to listen to either myself or his co-worker tell him that his advice, nor his assistance were needed. I finally had to walk to the busy (a week before Christmas) lobby and ask, loudly, for the manager and ask him to relieve me of the assistance of his exuberant young salesman.

It's hard for me to stomach ignorance of any kind most of the time and I'm trying to work on that, but when ignorance slides smooth into blatant disrespect I have to resort to Fight or Flight. Since punching dumbasses in the mouth is illegal I did what I was suppose to do and went and tattled on him. Which still didn't prevent the little turd from making smart remarks to me from across the room, as he is apparently the owners son and in absolutely no fear of losing his job, or his teeth.

Bah, sorry for the rant, but the kid at that store reminds me of a few of the posters here who feel the need to turn even the most amiable discussion into the debate of the century, no matter how little experience or knowledge they have.

I think I'll go hiking, anyone care to join me?!

[dharmabum86]

2100+ miles is still alot of friggin' miles and nobody should be here on this site attempting to discount anyone's accomplishments on the trail. Whether they hiked in 73' or 04' should not be an issue. Once you complete the trail you are in that club forever. I cannot wait to become a member. "That's all I have to say about that..."

TRI :sun BES 05'

ps: Is it April one yet????

Amen, Tribes! It's not my fault I wasn't born until '79. I would have hiked it then, but unfortunately I was a late bloomer and didn't start hiking until I was atleast 2.:bse

[rambunny]

Not to confuse the issue but as i have watched others over the years-i think success rates have gone up due to the internet and great places for information so people are heading out more prepared ,less anxious,and my favorite-less quiting on the approach trail due to 200 lb. pack. As far as sniveling about creature comforts along trail-hike your own hike-don't engage in them if you don't want but keep your nose outta other peoples way. To each his own.

[MOWGLI]

By the way, the trails were steeper! Switchbacking, especially in the Nantahalas, has made things easier. It probably evens out with trails being taken off roads and the length of trail increased.

Switchbacks are not installed to make the trail easier. They are installed to make trails sustainable, thereby reducing maintenance needs. Ever notice how badly eroded the trails are in New England? That's not a shot at the MATC and AMC. They do great work with their volunteers.

Fall line trails tend to erode - often quickly and badly. I saw half of Carter Dome run down the AT into the pond at Carter Notch in 2000. It seemed that way anyway. I sat for 20 minutes and watched this giant plume of mud grow in the pond. It was actually quite disturbing.

[Ridge]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lobster
1. oodles of hostels
2. trail magic
3. friends and family meeting up with hikers
4. slackpacking
5. cell phones

I wonder how low the success rate would be for thru-hikes if not for the increasingly more common instances of trail help?





Better weather makes the success rate higher than the perks, etc thats found on the trail. I'd rather have perfect weather than a hotel with ctv any day. Bad weather on the trail can really do a number on your body and mind.

[Drum Stick]

I can't believe the way some people think...

I hiked as purely as I could from GA to Gorham NH when my good friend Cup Cake (I don't think he wanted that name but it stuck and he took it smiling) who I met on day 1 of the trip told me that he was going to do a little slacking. At first I was hesitant because I had been so pure (hiking). But I did not want to split up and anyway what else did I have to prove 'to myself'. So I agreed and the slacking was great, I only wished I had slacked sooner.

1. I was thankful for all of the hostels etc. along the trail and I hope more will spring up, it is so nice to be clean if only for some hours. I don't see how anyone can bitch about that. Bottom line is that the hostels are not visible from the trail.

2. I was grateful for all of the trail magic that I experienced (some you would not frikken believe!). I only hope I am so lucky on my next trip... I can't imagine anyone being offended by trail magic. But 'perhaps' trail angels should set ourselves off the trail a bit. No problemo, no one way street here.

3. I absolutely enjoyed meeting the families of my hiking friends and I am certain they enjoyed meeting mine. The encounters are some of my best trail memories for sure for sure:-). I have a couple of letters sent by my trail friends, (framed by my parents), that hang on the wall of our camp in ME. I only hope I am so lucky the next time around.

4. Already covered slacking.

5. I did not carry a cell phone, but my good friend did because he had some sort of intestinal problem that took him off the trail twice... no three times, including an ambulance ride and a hospital stay in VA. I do think it is rude for someone to take/make a call in front of others but I never saw that happen twice. I must admit that phone came in handy when what was left of a hurricane moved through the Whites. At least a dozen thru hikers enjoyed staying in Gorham that night, reservations and a shuttle were complimets of a cell phone call. Oh yah! What is wrong with that?

Is some one suggesting that I hiked the trail wrong? Excellent! Do Over! see you in 2007 I hope.

I am amazed that someone can be 'disturbed' over the way someone else hikes or what they claimed... We each know how we got to ME. I swear I was steroid free.
Peace
Drum Stick

[Nightwalker]

1. oodles of hostels
2. trail magic
3. friends and family meeting up with hikers
4. slackpacking
5. cell phones

I wonder how low the success rate would be for thru-hikes if not for the increasingly more common instances of trail help?

I'm not talking about light-weight gear which helps the physical side of hiking which obviously carries over to the mental side. I'm referring to the opportunities for spirit raising things like a soft bed, a call to a loved one from a mountain top, a meal at a road crossing, etc.
:datz There's no way to make 5-7 months on a trail easy!

[Nightwalker]

Lastly, if you're so concerned with calling out hikers who haven't hiked the whole trail or who have recieved trail magic, well then I have a suggestion (since you seem to have so much free time to speculate). Why not go down to Springer in March and track all the hikers. You can go down with a clip board and write everyone's name down and then mark off when they get a free soda or ride. You can also count the number of skipped miles. Then in September you can go up to Katahdin and call them all out and proclaim that they actually aren't thru-hikers. Wouldn't that be a hoot!
Originally posted by kahley7 on the AT-L, Sat, 21 Apr 2001, as a tie-up of the thread talking about the proposed "Avery Society", whose sole purpose was to verify that those claiming to have done a thru had in fact actually done so. So be careful...

THE AVERY COWS ARE WATCHING

Stay to the white, pass on the right,
Don't shine your light in a shelter at night...
The avery cows are watching...
Pittsia Bovinovia

Don't excite a pigeon in flight,
Don't stop for sight where mosquitos bite...
The avery cows are watching...
Slotoeykins... the beloved

Evade detection of your cellular connection,
Concealed in your bivy, speak while in the privy...
The avery cows are watching...
Tim Rich....the well connected

Be part of the quota and register often.
Pay no heed to Avery who spins in his coffin.
The avery cows are watching
k-7 ...the over caffeinated

Avoid packin' umbrellas, fine ladies, good fellas...
When turned inside-out, they'll provide you no clout!
the avery cows are watching.
Landslides (moo..ve over, new poet here)

Beware of cow pies that your footware might snag
They may be radio monitors in drag
the avery cows are watching.
anklebear..the underestimated

The one with the bell, is the one that will tell,
if you hike during the night, or do all the white!
the avery cows are watching.
Slyman ....the wiseman

Spurn GPS, taste watercress,
Heaven forbid if you hike in a dress . . .
the avery cows are watching
the still--Rhymin' Worm

Visit the king who sits in the Center
He says who must leave and who may enter.
the avery cows are watching
annonymous...the shy

Bovine avery monitors..Only in Hot Springs they'll be seen
Praise the hoof_in_ mouth quarantine
the avery cows are watching
David.......with Chainsaw

Stop in at the Center, we'll tattoo your head
Or implant a chip if you'd like that instead.
the avery cows are watching
kahley.....the tattooist

TJ did warn us, right from the start.
It's sheep that are dumb, cows are too smart
To clutter their hike by watching the rest.
They just make their hike into one of the best.
Keep your eyes peeled for those subjects of loathing.
Some cows may be sheep dressed up in cow clothing......

the avery sheep are watching.....

[Nightwalker]

I coined the term "hiker trash".
I think that was "inspired" not "coined." Slight difference. (Cheese eating grin)

[Nightwalker]

Actually the success rate for the PCT and CDT are close to 50%.
Many people don't realize this, but in elevation change per mile, the AT is the steepest of the Triple Crown. Resupply for the CDT is most difficult, however.

There are more factors that go into these things than simple stats. On my most recent long-ish hike, I went five days between seeing another human. By the fifth day, I was talking to myself, out loud, in two different voices, occasionally with accents. I tended to lean towards Scottish, working-class English, and Australian. Was that insane? I don't think so. I didn't get lonely. It was a very good coping mechanism. I laughed a lot. I didn't think those voices were real, and the Scottish guy kept harassing me up the river gorges. It was actually kind of fun.

Actually, I guess OB could chirp in on the insane/inane part, but it worked for me--and we all do whatever it takes. All I know is that I was sad when I came to the end of the trail.

Frank/Nightwalker