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JillJones
12-28-2004, 16:30
In a recent post of mine, I stated I would still speak out on issues that I feel are relevant and important to the safety of the trail. So I will make my comments and answer those who wish a response.

Iíve moved my responses here instead of, Training Dogs for the Trail, so that thread can stay on subjectÖ

Quote from Blue Jay: Sorry, I was out hiking. All this vitriol and then you apologize

The apology was to Saraphim and for getting off topic and in no way an apology to you.

However, it was a nice attempt to hide from having to answer the questions. The full message written to Blue Jay which he refuses to answer, (Along with many other questions in the thread, are:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6725&page=3 Message #96.

Just to save time here are the 2 main questions:

Quote from Blue Jay about knowing the Hells Angels: ďI know most of the local Angel chapter as Blue JayĒ

Simple question:.
1. Since youíre such good friends with them, please prove it. Take a video cam and go yuck it up with the boys.

Don't forget, we need a way to verify that they know what their picture is being used for.

When will you be sending us this information?

Quote from Blue Jay: "I would be thrilled if they would hike the trail."

Simple question:
2. Why not take a poll and see how many of your fellow hikers here on White Blaze would, "Be thrilled if they would hike the trail."?

(Iím sure you know how to start a poll, so why not see how many would be thrilled?)

I wonder how many females on the trail would feel safe if Blue Jay, or anyone else for that matter, sent a letter to any of the Hellís Angles, and other outlaw motorcycle gangs, informing them of Shelter locations and how many single female hikers are on the trail and invited them on out?

I will continue to post these comments and questions to you until either you answer or retract them.

White Oak:
Iíll answer your question, but I have one for you 1st. Why did you send me this private message?

Fun
Come on down to Arkansas and I guarantee I'll give you a climax. Even if I have to spend 40 minutes licking that prescise spot!

So White Oak, Iíll need a precise address. Please send a phone number as well so you can be notify ahead of time to rest that tongue of yours up beforehand.. I also get the feeling; the animal wild life has gotten either too fast or bored with you?

However, I will answer your questions in post # 105 on Training Dogs for the Trail.

What's the beef, Jill?

Untrained dogs on the trail, and people who donít respect others space or property. Pretty simpleÖ

Didn't let go and enjoy life when you were young?

Enjoyed life both then and now and you?

Bitter now? Nope.

Somehow, because I make a statement here at White Blaze, about alcohol and drug abuse on the trails and in shelters, there are a few who would like to turn it into something else.
However, itís ironic and remarkable, how the party crews on the trail would criticize other crews with a lot worst then what Iíve said here.
Behind each otherís back, they would rip each other to shreds. You would hear, them talk what a ďHoĒ one girl is. How big of a**hole someone else is. How next time they mouth off, someoneís going to get their ďa** kickedĒ. So not only hypocrisy, there was self-righteousness amongst them as well. They felt they were better then another crew because they can hold their liquor better, didnít make a big scene, didnít barf, and a host of other petty complaints. You would get, the constant bitching from one crew about another whoís parents were paying for the adventure and between those who had to beg, borrow or steal to get drunk and high. While one crew was in recovery mode, they loved to complain, how one crew kept them up by their drinking and loud noise. They're the oneís who would love to bitch about any noise in which, someone either kept them awake or woke them up by, talking, snoring, packing, unpacking, and cooking. This was not just in the shelters, but in the hostels as well you could listen to the bitching. Yet when I would see them run into each other, they would be so pleasant and not say a thing.

So let me state this again. I donít care how much someone wants to party. If they want to get drunk, high, stoned and have an orgy is none of my business. All I ask is that you have respect for other hikers.

However, lets be clear, there are many ways; the crews affect many aspects of the trail. IMO, Iíve seen many blue or yellow blaze from one shelter to the next. (That their right as well) However, its no big deal how much sleep they get, or how many miles they do that day, for theyíre not on a schedule. Those who are there to hike the whole trail as best as possible suffer from lack of sleep and having to hike farther at times to try and stay ahead of a party crew.

Hostel owners have talked about how they would stay and not pay. I heard more then one hostel owner say, "They have money to get drunk, but can't pay me". There are fewer hostels on the trail and Iím not blaming it on just the party crews. However, go to Hanover and try and find a place to stay. The college use to be hiker friendly, but after so many incidents with drunken hikers now there are only a few, (And very expensive) choices for places to stay.

So whatís the solution?
Thereís the quote, ďBad things happen when good people do nothing. So, Iím trying to find answers and solutions here. Here at White Blaze, is a place, where the fists canít fly, and some nut canít pull a knife or worst.

A message to Blue Jay. Once again, until you answer these 2 questions, posted at the beginning of this post, then, I feel you have nothing to offer.

rocket04
12-28-2004, 17:09
Here at White Blaze, is a place, where the fists canít fly, and some nut canít pull a knife or worst. Yeah, but unfortunately it's also a place where people can say stuff they'd never dare say in person. And I'm not talking only for fear for their safety. Not meant as personal criticism, just to give the reverse side of the coin. A lot of people get pretty daring on these internet forums...

A-Train
12-28-2004, 17:18
Maybe we can hook "Jill" and Lobster up for a meeting of the Trolls

JillJones
12-28-2004, 17:53
Yeah, but unfortunately it's also a place where people can say stuff they'd never dare say in person. And I'm not talking only for fear for their safety. Not meant as personal criticism, just to give the reverse side of the coin. A lot of people get pretty daring on these internet forums...I agree it's easy to jump in and say something and run. I've not done that. If I feel I've made a mistake or could have said or done something better, then I try to make it right, apologize and move on. If someone asks a question, then I will try and answer it. Is this not the place to talk about serious issues? I made a mistake by not sending a private message to someone with who I had a problem. I've written and posted that I was sorry. I sent this person a private message telling them I was sorry. Here I'm talking about an issue that affects us all on the trail. I appreciate your comments and don't take it as a personal attack or criticism.

Lilred
12-28-2004, 17:55
In a recent post of mine, I stated I would still speak out on issues that I feel are relevant and important to the safety of the trail. So I will make my comments and answer those who wish a response.

I’ve moved my responses here instead of, Training Dogs for the Trail, so that thread can stay on subject…

Quote from Blue Jay: Sorry, I was out hiking. All this vitriol and then you apologize

The apology was to Saraphim and for getting off topic and in no way an apology to you.

However, it was a nice attempt to hide from having to answer the questions. The full message written to Blue Jay which he refuses to answer, (Along with many other questions in the thread, are:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6725&page=3 Message #96.

Just to save time here are the 2 main questions:

Quote from Blue Jay about knowing the Hells Angels: “I know most of the local Angel chapter as Blue Jay”

Simple question:.
1. Since you’re such good friends with them, please prove it. Take a video cam and go yuck it up with the boys.

Don't forget, we need a way to verify that they know what their picture is being used for.

When will you be sending us this information?

Quote from Blue Jay: "I would be thrilled if they would hike the trail."

Simple question:
2. Why not take a poll and see how many of your fellow hikers here on White Blaze would, "Be thrilled if they would hike the trail."?

(I’m sure you know how to start a poll, so why not see how many would be thrilled?)

I wonder how many females on the trail would feel safe if Blue Jay, or anyone else for that matter, sent a letter to any of the Hell’s Angles, and other outlaw motorcycle gangs, informing them of Shelter locations and how many single female hikers are on the trail and invited them on out?

I will continue to post these comments and questions to you until either you answer or retract them.

White Oak:
I’ll answer your question, but I have one for you 1st. Why did you send me this private message?

Fun
Come on down to Arkansas and I guarantee I'll give you a climax. Even if I have to spend 40 minutes licking that prescise spot!

So White Oak, I’ll need a precise address. Please send a phone number as well so you can be notify ahead of time to rest that tongue of yours up beforehand.. I also get the feeling; the animal wild life has gotten either too fast or bored with you?

However, I will answer your questions in post # 105 on Training Dogs for the Trail.

What's the beef, Jill?

Untrained dogs on the trail, and people who don’t respect others space or property. Pretty simple…

Didn't let go and enjoy life when you were young?

Enjoyed life both then and now and you?

Bitter now? Nope.

Somehow, because I make a statement here at White Blaze, about alcohol and drug abuse on the trails and in shelters, there are a few who would like to turn it into something else.
However, it’s ironic and remarkable, how the party crews on the trail would criticize other crews with a lot worst then what I’ve said here.
Behind each other’s back, they would rip each other to shreds. You would hear, them talk what a “Ho” one girl is. How big of a**hole someone else is. How next time they mouth off, someone’s going to get their “a** kicked”. So not only hypocrisy, there was self-righteousness amongst them as well. They felt they were better then another crew because they can hold their liquor better, didn’t make a big scene, didn’t barf, and a host of other petty complaints. You would get, the constant bitching from one crew about another who’s parents were paying for the adventure and between those who had to beg, borrow or steal to get drunk and high. While one crew was in recovery mode, they loved to complain, how one crew kept them up by their drinking and loud noise. They're the one’s who would love to bitch about any noise in which, someone either kept them awake or woke them up by, talking, snoring, packing, unpacking, and cooking. This was not just in the shelters, but in the hostels as well you could listen to the bitching. Yet when I would see them run into each other, they would be so pleasant and not say a thing.

So let me state this again. I don’t care how much someone wants to party. If they want to get drunk, high, stoned and have an orgy is none of my business. All I ask is that you have respect for other hikers.

However, lets be clear, there are many ways; the crews affect many aspects of the trail. IMO, I’ve seen many blue or yellow blaze from one shelter to the next. (That their right as well) However, its no big deal how much sleep they get, or how many miles they do that day, for they’re not on a schedule. Those who are there to hike the whole trail as best as possible suffer from lack of sleep and having to hike farther at times to try and stay ahead of a party crew.

Hostel owners have talked about how they would stay and not pay. I heard more then one hostel owner say, "They have money to get drunk, but can't pay me". There are fewer hostels on the trail and I’m not blaming it on just the party crews. However, go to Hanover and try and find a place to stay. The college use to be hiker friendly, but after so many incidents with drunken hikers now there are only a few, (And very expensive) choices for places to stay.

So what’s the solution?
There’s the quote, “Bad things happen when good people do nothing. So, I’m trying to find answers and solutions here. Here at White Blaze, is a place, where the fists can’t fly, and some nut can’t pull a knife or worst.

A message to Blue Jay. Once again, until you answer these 2 questions, posted at the beginning of this post, then, I feel you have nothing to offer.


Good Grief Jill, get a life would you?? Blah.... Blah.....blah.......

JillJones
12-28-2004, 18:11
Maybe we can hook "Jill" and Lobster up for a meeting of the TrollsYou know A-Train, Iíve read many of your posts and they have been helpful, and well thought out. I however, fail to see that Iím a troll because Iím talking about an issue. Is there something I failed to answer for you? The topic is simple. Answers? Solutions? It depends. If you have a comment about something I wrote then state it. If you have a question, then ask it. I take it you must be familiar with this debate. I would really like to stick to what I asked in my post. Very simple. The questions I asked Blue Jay were simple. He is the one who stated he would be thrilled to have the Hells Angels on the trail. Where do you stand on this? Does it make me a troll because I ask? How do you feel, and think about the problem of alcohol and drug abuse on the trail and shelters? If you donít think there is one, then fine. State that and if you want give a reason, thatís your choice to answer or not. However, I fail to see how Iím a troll for what I think is an important subject.

JillJones
12-28-2004, 18:31
Good Grief Jill, get a life would you?? Blah.... Blah.....blah.......Lidredmg,

Thanks for the inputÖ Iíve seen many of your posts of what you feel is important to you. It would be simple for me to have jumped in and said a quick insult on any of your posts and run. How long would it have taken you to say, "I donít think there is a problem on the trail."
Or, "I donít think it would be a good idea of even joking about having Hellís Angels on the trail."
Of course thatís your decision of what you want to put here. However, you have many posts as well and Iím sure that with each one you place you were hoping for it to stay on subject. I sure you didnít want someone telling you to get a lifeÖ So, maybe itís important to meÖ Is that OK? :-? If you would like to tell me you think I might be taking it too far then that's fine as well. I'm just asking you put it in a friendly way. Your choice as well. I put this is an off topic subject (Even thought it does have to do with the trail) and anyone can read it or not. I knew it would catch some flack and did not want hikers looking for answers to come and see a flame war.

A-Train
12-28-2004, 18:44
Jill-

Sorry if I assumed you were a troll. Just seems weird that you recently signed up here and so far your sole purpose has been to pick verbel quarrels and dig up a scenario that happened this summer, when it could have been layed to rest then. I admit I haven't read every post about the issue nor WAS I THERE, but it just seems like your beef isn't going to be put to rest on the internet. Why continue it on a seperate thread when it seemingly had died out?

Just out of curiosity where in Times Square do you live??

Lilred
12-28-2004, 18:53
Lidredmg,

Thanks for the input… I’ve seen many of your posts of what you feel is important to you. It would be simple for me to have jumped in and said a quick insult on any of your posts and run. How long would it have taken you to say, "I don’t think there is a problem on the trail."
Or, "I don’t think it would be a good idea of even joking about having Hell’s Angels on the trail."
Of course that’s your decision of what you want to put here. However, you have many posts as well and I’m sure that with each one you place you were hoping for it to stay on subject. I sure you didn’t want someone telling you to get a life… So, maybe it’s important to me… Is that OK? :-? If you would like to tell me you think I might be taking it too far then that's fine as well. I'm just asking you put it in a friendly way. Your choice as well. I put this is an off topic subject (Even thought it does have to do with the trail) and anyone can read it or not. I knew it would catch some flack and did not want hikers looking for answers to come and see a flame war.


You are continually fanning the the flame. Get a life pretty well sums it up. Have you nothing better to do?? No one tells me to get a life since I don't spend lengthy posts telling others how to live theirs.

JillJones
12-28-2004, 19:22
Jill,
Sorry if I assumed you were a troll. Just seems weird that you recently signed up here and so far your sole purpose has been to pick verbel quarrels and dig up a scenario that happened this summer, when it could have been layed to rest then.

I understand it might seem like a rant. I really should try and keep it brief. There are many people who read these posts for years and donít sign up for many reasons. However, for me, it started when someone posted a message and I recognized the name. There have been many times when a person is hiking and has a problem with someone, or something. You donít say anything there for a number of reasons. However, Iíve explained completely in earlier posts of why I wasn't able to deal with the issue for (What I felt) was my personal safety at the time. My goal is not to pick verbal quarrels. I realized saying some things no matter how true I think they are, end up causing someone pain. Which is why, Iíve tried to keep it on subject. I admit I went a little bit overboard on how the party crews cut each otherís throats, but I guess I was trying to make a point.

I admit I haven't read every post about the issue nor WAS I THERE, but it just seems like your beef isn't going to be put to rest on the internet. Why continue it on a seperate thread when it seemingly had died out?

Good question. The problem was part of it did not die out. Blue Jay made what I felt was serious improper comments. He has a way of hit and run. So, I decided to call him on it in the Off Topic area. Also, after I made my apologies to anyone I felt I offended; there were comments, and private message sent to me so Iíve answered them of them here.
However, I also know there is a problem with the abuse of drugs on the trail and in the shelters. (Yes, I know itís everywhere) Yes, itís been talked about before. Doesnít mean it canít be dealt with again. I canít say I did it perfect and maybe I should have put the issue with Blue Jay and the drug abuse into 2 different threads. However, itís out there now.

Just out of curiosity where in Times Square do you live??
I donít. I work there and commute. A very long commute which is when I write these responses.

JillJones
12-28-2004, 19:31
You are continually fanning the the flame. Get a life pretty well sums it up. Have you nothing better to do?? No one tells me to get a life since I don't spend lengthy posts telling others how to live theirs.However, you did seem to spend a great deal of time reading my lengthy posts. Have you nothing better do???? Are you fanning the flame? Look inside yourself as well as it works both ways... See how easy it is to give an insult. I see you still havenít decided to make a comment which is fine, but in the time it took you to read and answer you could of given a thought on how to deal with the issue. That's all... If you don't want to make a comment then fine. You can use the ignore button on me, which I'm sure is not that hard to find out how to use. Or, since this is an Off Topic subject, just ignore it... Sorry to make it sound so blunt, but it seems there are just as many who wish to jump on board the insult wagon..

Lone Wolf
12-28-2004, 19:35
You an actress on Broadway? You sure are dramatic. Type in bigger letters. You're strainin my friggin eyes!

JillJones
12-28-2004, 19:45
You an actress on Broadway? You sure are dramatic. Type in bigger letters. You're strainin my friggin eyes!
Dramatic? Why L. Wolf after reading many of your posts, I feel thats a compliment....

I have no idea why my posts are in small fonts. On here it says the font is Georgia #3. I will change it to the next level and I hope that makes a difference as I preview each post before I summit it and it looks fine. Please let me know...

minnesotasmith
12-28-2004, 19:46
She simply clearly called out Blue Jay and Seraphim when they made statements completely out of accordance with reality, and favoring behavior terribly damaging to the Trail culture. I find that admirable, and applaud her POV.

Lone Wolf
12-28-2004, 19:48
It looks good now. REAL BIG LIKE. :) I'll stay tuned for more "As Whiteblaze Turns".

neo
12-28-2004, 19:56
i like your style jill,your pretty cool in my book:sun neo

JillJones
12-28-2004, 19:59
It looks good now. REAL BIG LIKE. :) I'll stay tuned for more "As Whiteblaze Turns".Hopefully not toooo big nowÖ If anyone is having a problem with my fonts in reading the posts, please let me know. I sure there are a few who would think I just asked, ďDo you think I look fat in this dress.Ē So, if you feel the need for a quick insult, please let me know if this is readable while youíre at itÖ :rolleyes:

ThanksÖ

SGT Rock
12-28-2004, 20:05
I would check my browser settings. The font is a set thing unless your cookie defaults it to another size for some reason.

JillJones
12-28-2004, 20:21
I would check my browser settings. The font is a set thing unless your cookie defaults it to another size for some reason.I checked the setting and theyíre all the same. Iíll try and keep working on itÖ

Thanks

Lilred
12-28-2004, 21:31
However, you did seem to spend a great deal of time reading my lengthy posts. Have you nothing better do???? Are you fanning the flame? Look inside yourself as well as it works both ways... See how easy it is to give an insult. I see you still haven’t decided to make a comment which is fine, but in the time it took you to read and answer you could of given a thought on how to deal with the issue. That's all... If you don't want to make a comment then fine. You can use the ignore button on me, which I'm sure is not that hard to find out how to use. Or, since this is an Off Topic subject, just ignore it... Sorry to make it sound so blunt, but it seems there are just as many who wish to jump on board the insult wagon..


Just for the record, I didn't read it. After the first couple of lines, I saw clearly that you are on a rant.

JillJones
12-28-2004, 21:48
Just for the record, I didn't read it. After the first couple of lines, I saw clearly that you are on a rant.Then you misquote yourself... You state that I tell people how to live their lives... Please show and tell me where I've told someone how to live their life. If anything, I told people to live their life the way they want, as long as they respect other people's space and property. All I'm asking is, if you want to tell me to "Get a life"... then read what I'm talking about and know what the issue is which is being talked about. My post might sound like a rant, however, you not knowing the facts or issues does not do wonders for your standing in making a creditable statement.....

Lilred
12-29-2004, 00:00
Then you misquote yourself... You state that I tell people how to live their lives... Please show and tell me where I've told someone how to live their life. If anything, I told people to live their life the way they want, as long as they respect other people's space and property. All I'm asking is, if you want to tell me to "Get a life"... then read what I'm talking about and know what the issue is which is being talked about. My post might sound like a rant, however, you not knowing the facts or issues does not do wonders for your standing in making a creditable statement.....


LOLOL I read your first rant on another thread. Didn't need to read the second one on this thread to know what you were talking about. I also don't need to read what you wrote to understand that when one goes on and on and on and on about the same issues, that it's a rant. "Get a life" refers to the fact that you won't let go of it. You even posted, in red, that, and I quote:

"I will continue to post these comments and questions to you until either you answer or retract them."

Hard to miss something that is highlighted in red. Need the attention that bad?

Do us all a favor, leave Blue Jay alone and <<cough, cough>> get a life.

I apologize to everyone else for continuing this unnecessary dialogue. I'm finished with this nonsense.

JillJones
12-29-2004, 00:23
LOLOL I read your first rant on another thread. Didn't need to read the second one on this thread to know what you were talking about. I also don't need to read what you wrote to understand that when one goes on and on and on and on about the same issues, that it's a rant. "Get a life" refers to the fact that you won't let go of it. You even posted, in red, that, and I quote:

"I will continue to post these comments and questions to you until either you answer or retract them."

Hard to miss something that is highlighted in red. Need the attention that bad?

Do us all a favor, leave Blue Jay alone and <<cough, cough>> get a life.

I apologize to everyone else for continuing this unnecessary dialogue. I'm finished with this nonsense.I would have to agree my opening statement is long. Itís difficult to keep it short when you want to get a point across. However, in my effort to explain and make a point, I realize, there are people who lose interest in what the post is even about. Either due to time constraints, a lack of interest in the subject, or in their honest opinion it might sound like a rant.

Basically I was trying to say two things.

Someone said, they would be thrilled if the Hells Angels were on the trail.

So, would you be thrilled if the Hellís Angels were on the trail, showed up at a shelter you were staying in or just running into them on the trail?

I ran into problems with a few groups of hikers who due to abuse of alcohol and drug use, made staying in the shelters not a very pleasant experience. So my point was, how do you deal with it? When does it become too much? Is there a place where you said, this is ok but this is not? Personal safety and wisdom of what and when to say it all comes into play.

So thereís the short version of this threadÖ

However, you not reading and feeling the need to defend Blue Jay is LOL as well. It seems you have had just as hard a time letting this go so Iím sure you can understand as the ignore button is at your disposal. However, why canít you just answer a simple question? Do you agree with Blue Jay that Hells Angles would be great.. I read one of your posts where you were worried about your personal safety when you were going to do a section hike. So donít say one thing and then anotherÖ. I don't need the attention I can promise you that... However, your failure to just answer a simple question shows your lack of concern...

JillJones
12-29-2004, 00:35
I also don't need to read what you wrote to understand that when one goes on and on and on and on about the same issues, that it's a rant. Just a quick note. I had asked you a question in the previous post to show me where Iím telling someone how to live their life. You made the statement, so back it up with a fact, or a quote from me. Youíve jumped into something you didnít know what it is about and made assumptions. Now that you were asked a question and asked to back it up, you avoided it to make it sound like itís a problem of mine, and then, << cough, cough >> say, ďget a lifeĒÖ Come onÖ Youíre a teacherÖ I would expect you to do your homework. Sorry, but you get << cough, cough >> an F for lack of effortÖ

JillJones
12-29-2004, 01:00
when one goes on and on and on and on about the same issues, that it's a rant. "Get a life" refers to the fact that you won't let go of it. You even posted, in red, that, and I quote:

"I will continue to post these comments and questions to you until either you answer or retract them."

Hard to miss something that is highlighted in red.
When I stated, ďI will continue to post these comments and questions to you until you answer or retract themĒ has to do with Blue Jay not answering a simple question. Every time he answers one of my posts, he avoids what was asked of himÖ (Sort of what youíve been doing) So to make it easy on my part, instead of letting him go off onto something else, I made that statement and put it in red in the hope he would see itís not going to go away with a smart ass remark. Instead of having to rewrite something else and do a tap dance with him every time, I was just going to copy and paste the 2 questions...

rocket04
12-29-2004, 01:22
JillJones, I think that out of 25 posts here, about half are yours. It's not much of a discussion if it goes on this way. Although you may bring up some valid discussion topics, the whole thing with Blue Jay is getting ridiculous and is best forgotten, or else dealt with privately.

As for the topics of safety, yeah, I understand your point about not speaking up on the spot. Which of course means little because I wasn't there to see the situation you found yourself in to give an opinion on whether or not there was an apparent threat. So most people would probably agree in general on the safety issue, but nobody can have much of an opinion on a situation that they didn't witness and is being described differently by 2 people who were there and are directly involved.

JillJones
12-29-2004, 01:58
JillJones, I think that out of 25 posts here, about half are yours. It's not much of a discussion if it goes on this way. Although you may bring up some valid discussion topics, the whole thing with Blue Jay is getting ridiculous and is best forgotten, or else dealt with privately.

As for the topics of safety, yeah, I understand your point about not speaking up on the spot. Which of course means little because I wasn't there to see the situation you found yourself in to give an opinion on whether or not there was an apparent threat. So most people would probably agree in general on the safety issue, but nobody can have much of an opinion on a situation that they didn't witness and is being described differently by 2 people who were there and are directly involved.I would have to agree with you. I had said last week, it was getting far beyond the point of useless and time-consuming chatter. Itís easy to get caught up in it. As far as dealing with Blue Jay privately, to be honest, I really donít think would do much good. From the lack of interest, and my inability to keep it brief has not made me a lot of friends. I think, putting him on my ignore list is the simple and much more productive move. However, thanks for your few simple, wise words, which speak volumes. There are no winners here. Everyone loses when it becomes a shout match and an important topic is left by the wayside. Iím not trying to past blame, for it was I who jumped on this band wagon a few weeks ago with a post in which I let some of my emotions get in the way of rational thoughtÖ

saimyoji
12-29-2004, 02:15
....Just a few thoughts....I read Seraphim's trailjournal....seemed like she didn't hike the entire trail....so what?....she did seem to party alot....so what?.....did she bother you?....you should have said something, for example: Excuse me, your partying is bothering me. I don't mind you youngsters whoopin' it up and carryin' on and all, but there is such a thing as trail etiquette...etc.etc.etc. Waiting so long to nail her here....I've not seen Seraphim post until recently, this probably sparked your enthusiasm....should you call her and her posse out on their behavior?.... ABSOLUTELY.....she obviously pissed you off, you need to let go of your frustrations with her: VENT IT, don't be afraid to just let it all gush: whine, moan, complain, confront, bitch, piss, appologise....you aren't the only one to do that on this forum.

One question I have: Someone sent you a PrivateMessage which you quoted. Shouldn't private messages be kept as such: private? I think you may have violated a code of etiquette of your own here by publicly reporting something assumed to be private by another member....

What do you think?

squirrel bait
12-29-2004, 05:35
Geeez, I don't know any Angels but I do know some Chosen Few from out the midwest way. 20,000$ bike, or more, 7-3:30 job at a manufacturing job or cereal plant and your scared of them. If anyone walks to shelter, and ok maybe not the ones close to a road crossing, as we know of those problems already, they are surely welcome. Your average biker, person, anyone who doesn;t normally hike much doesn't as a rule have a whole lot of energy for ruckuss making.. In fact I am sure the persence of some "colors", which they would never fly, might cut down on some of this rowdiness. It must be a long ride to Ronkonkama, an hour or so I would guess on the LIRR. We all need to get over this fainty of classifying people by sight or description. Looks are especially deceiving on the trail. Half of the people I have met hiking really do look quite scary. Huge Bowie knifes, to no gear. The no gear people get me to thinking quite a bit. A 250 pound 50 year old bearded guy sounds like half the people i have met on the trail. Good luck on your hike.

Bloodroot
12-29-2004, 07:36
It looks good now. REAL BIG LIKE. :) I'll stay tuned for more "As Whiteblaze Turns".I thoughts Marines don't watch any soaps?:D
You watch "As the Trail Turns" and "As Whiteblaze Turns"!
Blue Jay watches "As My Stomach Turns"
I prefer "Days of Our Blaze"

After reading this thread, who will get the girl, MS or Neo? (just kidding)

ATTROLL needs to consider producing a show with Top as the director.

Bloodroot
12-29-2004, 07:58
Geeez, I don't know any Angels but I do know some Chosen Few from out the midwest way. 20,000$ bike, or more, 7-3:30 job at a manufacturing job or cereal plant and your scared of them. If anyone walks to shelter, and ok maybe not the ones close to a road crossing, as we know of those problems already, they are surely welcome. Your average biker, person, anyone who doesn;t normally hike much doesn't as a rule have a whole lot of energy for ruckuss making.. In fact I am sure the persence of some "colors", which they would never fly, might cut down on some of this rowdiness. It must be a long ride to Ronkonkama, an hour or so I would guess on the LIRR. We all need to get over this fainty of classifying people by sight or description. Looks are especially deceiving on the trail. Half of the people I have met hiking really do look quite scary. Huge Bowie knifes, to no gear. The no gear people get me to thinking quite a bit. A 250 pound 50 year old bearded guy sounds like half the people i have met on the trail. Good luck on your hike.
Excellent post. Who cares what they do and the reputation that preceeds them. My dad used to be in a wild biker club after the Nam years and I have spent alot of time with his old friends (who still ride in clubs). And I also have been in biker bars, sometimes on a regular basis, which Hell's Angel's were present from time to time. Wanna know what happens? Usually they buy me a beer after shooting a game of pool. Also, I ride a bike, and if I were to join a club, would that prohibit me from enjoying a trail? I really don't understand the point.

Blue Jay
12-29-2004, 08:23
Wow, I'm in a huge argument and I didn't even know it. You can stop worrying Jill, I clearly said all the bikers I know are not interested in hiking and Harleys (except for the 883, which they don't ride) make terrible off road bikes. You brought the Angels up, not me. Since I do not feel the need to defend bikers and your attacks on my fellow thru have ended, you can stop now. We understand your points.

JillJones
12-29-2004, 09:32
....Just a few thoughts....I read Seraphim's trailjournal....seemed like she didn't hike the entire trail....so what?....she did seem to party alot....so what?.....did she bother you?....you should have said something, for example: Excuse me, your partying is bothering me. I don't mind you youngsters whoopin' it up and carryin' on and all, but there is such a thing as trail etiquette...etc.etc.etc. Waiting so long to nail her here....I've not seen Seraphim post until recently, this probably sparked your enthusiasm....should you call her and her posse out on their behavior?.... ABSOLUTELY.....she obviously pissed you off, you need to let go of your frustrations with her: VENT IT, don't be afraid to just let it all gush: whine, moan, complain, confront, bitch, piss, appologise....you aren't the only one to do that on this forum.

One question I have: Someone sent you a PrivateMessage which you quoted. Shouldn't private messages be kept as such: private? I think you may have violated a code of etiquette of your own here by publicly reporting something assumed to be private by another member....

What do you think?Iíve said this now about 2 or 3 times. As far as Seraphims goes, Iíve written her both an apology both in an open forum and in a private message. Seraphim has nothing to do with this anymore, and youíre right, who cares if she or anyone hikes the whole trail. Thatís their business. Iíve said over and over, I donít care if they party. The time and place to do it is the question. Would a single female feel safe doing it? That was the question. I did vent it, moan, complain, confront and all the rest. I went on way to long with it after a few people decided to jump in and try and make it out to be something else. I tried to make a point to these people, (Blue Jay mostly) and found itís like trying to make a pig sing. The pig will never sing and it just pisses him off in the process. Yes, lets let it go and move on. Iíve said lets find answers and solutions. Iím not saying I did it perfect. There is no edit button here. I have to live with what I write.

As far as the Private Messages sent to me goes. I should have sent them to Sgt Rock and let him deal with it. The messages were not (I take it you did not read what he said) wishing me a Merry Christmas. White Oak posted a message in an open forum to me, which is fine. However, he decided to also write unwanted explicit sexual messages. I decided to put it out there for others to see what a low life he wasÖ I donít feel thatís violating any code of etiquette. Sexual harassment, threats of violence should be exposed and reported. That is what I did. I will send them to Sgt Rock and let him deal with it as well.

I know time has not allowed you to read all the posts, which have to do with this argument and how it got started. I understand and realize most people donít have the time. I know I canít keep up with every thread going on here. However, thanks for your input and insight into this matter. Once again. Itís overÖ. Iím only answering these posts here and closing it then, as itís not making a difference.

JillJones
12-29-2004, 09:40
Wow, I'm in a huge argument and I didn't even know it. You can stop worrying Jill, I clearly said all the bikers I know are not interested in hiking and Harleys (except for the 883, which they don't ride) make terrible off road bikes. You brought the Angels up, not me. Since I do not feel the need to defend bikers and your attacks on my fellow thru have ended, you can stop now. We understand your points.I agree, lets end it, as no one is going to win this debate and White Blaze and new hikers are the ones who are hurt in the process. I would ask others to let this die out and let it go as well.

Blue Jay
12-29-2004, 09:40
The Hills are Alive with the sound of Music.

JillJones
12-29-2004, 09:50
The Hills are Alive with the sound of Music.You can sing and I guess it didn't piss you off...:) A joke and not a slam or insult. So, I hope we can move on and fine much better things to talk about....

Skeemer
12-29-2004, 09:58
yeah like bibles in shelters...my favorite topic.