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View Full Version : Total rookie questions, Vol 4



Dainon
12-29-2004, 09:37
I have nearly all of my gear purchased -- the last to be ordered will be a set of FroggToggs and a few miscellaneous items. I opted for a Shires Tarptent (Squall), the Osprey Aether 60, and a Western Mountaineering 20-degree ultralight. While I can see advantages and disadvantages with each, that said I think that my decisions were reasonable and I thank everyone who offered their thoughts and opinions.

I'm ready to do a couple of 2-3 day shake-down hikes, but before I do, I'd like to ask some questions that will, for experienced hikers, most probably seem to have obvious answers. I'm a rookie, so apologies in advance.

1. My tarptent came rolled up in a stuff sack. The sack is approx. 24" in length. When packing the tarp in the backpack, should it be folded into something of a square or rectangle so that it will be somewhat flat? Should it be strapped to the outside of the pack?

2. Related to Question #1, what about the pole? Is it generally kept inside the pack or attached to the outside? On the one hand, I'd think that having the pole inside the pack risks it being bent or perhaps puncturing something; on the other hand, trying to attach it to the outside seems to increase the risk of it falling off while hiking and thus lost. Would it be better to carry the tarp and the pole in the stuff sack provided and attach the entire thing to the outside of the pack?

3. When I hauled the gear that I have to the outfitters to try different packs, I noticed that the clothes seemed to take up excess volume. Does it make sense to get a small compression sack for them? (other than what I'll wear on the first day, I'm taking an extra set of pants, shirt, two pair of socks, and raingear). One possible benefit of using a stuff sack for them is that it could double as a pillow.

4. I bought a used full-length ThermaZrest. Should it be placed inside the pack while hiking or attached on the outside? In terms of volume, it's easily the largest thing that I'll carry.

5. Pot cozy. I'm using a Pepsi stove that I made (thanks to Sgt. Rock for the instructions on his page), but I ordered a cozy from AntigravityGear. Is the pot cozy to be folded up or would doing that tear it up?

6. Stuff sacks for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks. I've read that many carry each meal in a different sack to make things easier to load/unload. That makes sense to me, but on the other hand, it seems a bit excessive. I guess my question is whether most clear divisions of things to be carried should be placed in different stuff sacks (i.e. clothes, meals, cooking gear, first aid, etc)?

7. Wingfoot or ATC Databook? I'm carrying maps. Even if I never need them, at least it'll give me something to read in the evenings. I also have a 2004 copy of Wingfoot's Thru-Hiker's Handbook. I joined the ATC, but I didn't order their Databook. Is there a substantive difference? Is one preferable to the other? I'm just going to tear out the pages that I'll need, so weight isn't an issue.

8. Compass. My daughter bought me a Timex watch that has a digital compass on it. I think that the instruction book says that it is accurate to within 4 degrees. And while I'll read and try to learn the basics of using a compass on Sgt. Rock's site, that said I think that it's safe to say that other than knowing which way is north, I'll have no real experience trying to go off the trail (and no desire to do so, either). So is the watch/compass good enough or should I purchase an inexpensive compass too?

9. Finally, I'll use a Gatorade bottle instead of Nalgene, but I bought a 2L Platypus to use to carry water to camp in the evenings. This may be my dumbest question of all, but if it's convenient to refill the Platypus in the mornings, should I carry it filled with water in the pack along with a full load of water in the Gatorade bottle?

Thanks in advance for any answers and opinions that you may have. I'd like to post my entire gear list in a couple of weeks for comments/criticisms when everything is final, but other than that I'll try not to post more questions.

Blue Jay
12-29-2004, 09:47
Most of your questions are personal preference. Once you get out there you'll figure out quickly which you prefer. There is no wrong way only the way that fits you. As for tarp or tent folding, try to never do it the same way twice. This will cause a weak spot along the fold. I usually just stuff it in my pack, but again what ever way works best for you.

poison_ivy
12-29-2004, 10:01
As Blue Jay said, many of your questions boil down to personal preference. After a day or two on the trail, you'll figure out what works best for you.

That said, what works best for me is this -- I just stuff my Shires Tarptent into the sac (along with the stakes.) That gets put into my pack (near the bottom along with my sleeping bag.) I attach the tarptent's rear pole to the outside of my pack. I keep my clothes in stuff sack near the top of my pack. I only carry one stuff sack for my food and I also keep that at the top of my pack as well. I attach my thermarest to the outside of my pack as well (but I only have the 3/4 length... I'd worry about the longer one snagging on bushes.)

For water, I carry a three L platypus & a gatorade bottle. In the morning, I always fill the gatorade bottle first and drink out of that throughout the day. I only carry enough water in the platypus to get me to the next water source... the less weight the better as far as I'm concerned.

I think you'll be all right with your watch compass. I always carry a compass with me, but in three years of section hiking the AT, I've only ever used it to try and identify landmarks when at the top of mountains in the Whites.

- Ivy

Skeemer
12-29-2004, 10:14
Agree with BJ (which is dangerous) that most are "personal preference" items. You mentioned a 2-3 day "shakedown" hike. I would recommend 2 weeks if at all possible. I learned so much, especially about being exhausted, setting up camp, etc that came after the first few days. Also, I never developed the "hiker's appetite" and did not eat right...a valuable lesson.

Besides, I made it to Harpers Ferry where I met the famous Baltimore Jack . He informed me about the fall LDHA meeting which was of tremendous help.

Miss Janet
12-29-2004, 10:30
"I'm ready to do a couple of 2-3 day shake-down hikes, but before I do, I'd like to ask some questions that will, for experienced hikers, most probably seem to have obvious answers. I'm a rookie, so apologies in advance."

You should come down to the SoRuck at the NOC in Jan. You would get a lot of your questions answered and you could plan a shakedown hike for a few days afterwards.

SGT Rock
12-29-2004, 11:02
I'm ready to do a couple of 2-3 day shake-down hikes, but before I do, I'd like to ask some questions that will, for experienced hikers, most probably seem to have obvious answers. I'm a rookie, so apologies in advance.

Shake down hikes should help you iron out those decisions. I agree with Miss Janet about getting tothe SoRuck if possible. I am currently trying to work that trip back into my schedule.



1. My tarptent came rolled up in a stuff sack. The sack is approx. 24" in length. When packing the tarp in the backpack, should it be folded into something of a square or rectangle so that it will be somewhat flat? Should it be strapped to the outside of the pack?

Stuff it, don't fold. folding can cause regular lines in the material that can get damaged due to stress. This may not happen, but why chance it? Just stuff it.



2. Related to Question #1, what about the pole? Is it generally kept inside the pack or attached to the outside? On the one hand, I'd think that having the pole inside the pack risks it being bent or perhaps puncturing something; on the other hand, trying to attach it to the outside seems to increase the risk of it falling off while hiking and thus lost. Would it be better to carry the tarp and the pole in the stuff sack provided and attach the entire thing to the outside of the pack?

Sounds like a personal preference thing.If your pack comes with some outside mesh pockets, you might stick one end of the pole into this so it can't slide out the bottom.




3. When I hauled the gear that I have to the outfitters to try different packs, I noticed that the clothes seemed to take up excess volume. Does it make sense to get a small compression sack for them? (other than what I'll wear on the first day, I'm taking an extra set of pants, shirt, two pair of socks, and raingear). One possible benefit of using a stuff sack for them is that it could double as a pillow.

I wouldn't reccomend a compression sack, but maybe a stuff sack to the volume you would like to keep the clothing volume down to, then you can stuff the clothing and keep volume minimal. Equinox sells lots of different sizes.



4. I bought a used full-length ThermaZrest. Should it be placed inside the pack while hiking or attached on the outside? In terms of volume, it's easily the largest thing that I'll carry.

Totally a packing preference. Work it out on a shake down. Maybe if you roll it you can put your tent pole inside the thing.



5. Pot cozy. I'm using a Pepsi stove that I made (thanks to Sgt. Rock for the instructions on his page), but I ordered a cozy from AntigravityGear. Is the pot cozy to be folded up or would doing that tear it up?

Personally I don't like the Anti-Gravity cozies because they can delaminate. I prefer to use a fleece hat or make one from some old fleece. With the Anti-Gravity set I have I just store the cozy on the outside of the pot. If you make a fleece one you can just wad it up inside your pot.



6. Stuff sacks for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks. I've read that many carry each meal in a different sack to make things easier to load/unload. That makes sense to me, but on the other hand, it seems a bit excessive. I guess my question is whether most clear divisions of things to be carried should be placed in different stuff sacks (i.e. clothes, meals, cooking gear, first aid, etc)?

Just use one big sack for your food, then use some zip locks inside for different food groups. Makes it easy to look inside the bag without opening it. Take one or two of those smaller bags and use it for clothing. Me personally, I have 4 sacks: Food, Clothing, Sleeping Quilts, and Misc. Each has a different color, makes packing and unpacking a breeze. Shake down hikes will helpwith this system.



7. Wingfoot or ATC Databook? I'm carrying maps. Even if I never need them, at least it'll give me something to read in the evenings. I also have a 2004 copy of Wingfoot's Thru-Hiker's Handbook. I joined the ATC, but I didn't order their Databook. Is there a substantive difference? Is one preferable to the other? I'm just going to tear out the pages that I'll need, so weight isn't an issue.

If you have the newest WF book, it is supposed to have all the databook milage listed in it, so no need to carry both.



8. Compass. My daughter bought me a Timex watch that has a digital compass on it. I think that the instruction book says that it is accurate to within 4 degrees. And while I'll read and try to learn the basics of using a compass on Sgt. Rock's site, that said I think that it's safe to say that other than knowing which way is north, I'll have no real experience trying to go off the trail (and no desire to do so, either). So is the watch/compass good enough or should I purchase an inexpensive compass too?

It is just fine. I think I use the same watch.



9. Finally, I'll use a Gatorade bottle instead of Nalgene, but I bought a 2L Platypus to use to carry water to camp in the evenings. This may be my dumbest question of all, but if it's convenient to refill the Platypus in the mornings, should I carry it filled with water in the pack along with a full load of water in the Gatorade bottle?

That is a daily decision based on the water coming up along the trail. I think it is safe to say that if you hydrate well before leaving camp in the morning that you can make it just carrying a quart in the Gatorade bottle for your first month or so. That part of the trail usually has good water every couple of hours of walking, so just stop and top off the bottle occasionally. When you get past the Smokies it might take carrying a little more, in Virginia with the long dry ridges you may want to carry extra.

Spirit Walker
12-29-2004, 11:05
If there's room in the pack, I would put my pole in there as it is a major hassle when you lose it -- or put it in the bag with the tarp. The zrest goes outside the pack - it is waterproof and won't get harmed. It only goes inside if it is needed for support of the pack itself. If you are looking to cut weight, the 3/4 is lighter. You can always cut down the full length one.

Re: the food bag - we only carry one, which is strong enough to hang in trees away from the bears. Inside the bag we use separate plastic bags to separate out the dinner, lunch, breakfast, drink items. Keeps them dry too. Remember, even lightweight bags add up, so you want to minimize those. Put your clothes in plastic bags so they stay dry. Even with a pack cover, water can find its way in. Be sure to put your sleeping bag inside a garbage bag inside the sleeping bag sack. Trying to sleep in a wet bag is the pits.

A minimal compass is fine. On the AT I sent mine home after a while. You will rarely need it. The only time we bushwhacked was in heavy winds when we were crossing one of the southern balds. We got off the crest and hiked in the trees then came back up to cross over to the other side. But even then, a compass wasn't needed.

Footslogger
12-29-2004, 11:11
[QUOTE=Dainon]
2. Related to Question #1, what about the pole? Is it generally kept inside the pack or attached to the outside? On the one hand, I'd think that having the pole inside the pack risks it being bent or perhaps puncturing something; on the other hand, trying to attach it to the outside seems to increase the risk of it falling off while hiking and thus lost. Would it be better to carry the tarp and the pole in the stuff sack provided and attach the entire thing to the outside of the pack?
QUOTE]
=====================================
Curious if you're using trekking poles ?? If so, there's really no need to carry the pole that came with the Squall. I carry the same tent and use one of my trekking poles to prop up the front of the tent. Works like a charm and saves the extra weight.

'Slogger
AT 2003

Footslogger
12-29-2004, 11:22
9. Finally, I'll use a Gatorade bottle instead of Nalgene, but I bought a 2L Platypus to use to carry water to camp in the evenings. This may be my dumbest question of all, but if it's convenient to refill the Platypus in the mornings, should I carry it filled with water in the pack along with a full load of water in the Gatorade bottle?
====================================
I essentially used the same system on my thru-hike in 2003. I started each day with a full 2 Liter Platy and a 20 oz gatorade bottle. I typically filled the 20 oz gatorade bottle with either gatorade/tang or a mixture of the two and used it to suppliment my water intake. Besides ...drinking nothing but water all day can get a tad boring. If my 20 oz bottle was empty or near empty when I passed a good water supply during the day I always filled it up and purified it. At lunch I refilled both my platy and bottle and carried on. I never had a water issue ...then again, we had somewhat of an abundance of water on the trail in 2003.

Only thing you didn't mention (but you may have in your backpack) is something to gather water in at night. I carried the 4 Liter fold up platy for that. It had the "ziplock" top and was easily dunked in a stream or filled cup by cup from a shallow water supply. Hung that on a tree branch near my tent at night. It was enough for dinner, breakfast and my initial starting supply of water for hiking the next morning.

'Slogger
AT 2003

rocket04
12-29-2004, 13:26
9. Finally, I'll use a Gatorade bottle instead of Nalgene, but I bought a 2L Platypus to use to carry water to camp in the evenings. This may be my dumbest question of all, but if it's convenient to refill the Platypus in the mornings, should I carry it filled with water in the pack along with a full load of water in the Gatorade bottle? I'd say good call on the bottle, I used 2 Nalgene bottles and thought it really wasn't justified other than the convenience of screwing a water filter onto it, which was not much use if purifying with AquaMira.

As for the amount of water, it varies for each person. I personally hardly ever carried more than 1 liter. Often I carried only 16 ounces. But you should probably start carrying more and then adapting as you see fit. That way you'll enjoy your pack feeling lighter if you go from 2.5 liters of water to only 0.5-1 liter.

SGT Rock
12-29-2004, 13:32
Curious if you're using trekking poles ?? If so, there's really no need to carry the pole that came with the Squall. I carry the same tent and use one of my trekking poles to prop up the front of the tent. Works like a charm and saves the extra weight.

'Slogger
AT 2003

Good point. I just looked at the tarptent site, looks like you could just use some trekking poles instead of the normal poles. Saves weight and keeps you from worrying about if your poles are going to fall out since they are in your hands all the time.

wacocelt
12-29-2004, 14:16
5. Pot cozy. I'm using a Pepsi stove that I made (thanks to Sgt. Rock for the instructions on his page), but I ordered a cozy from AntigravityGear. Is the pot cozy to be folded up or would doing that tear it up?

I carry the AGG cozy and windscreen and like them, despite the fact that they delaminate, as Sgt. Rock pointed out. I usually keep my pot in the cozy while i hike, with the windscreen rolled inside the pot itself. In 03' I had a small bubble wrap sleeve which I kept my stove in so it could be stored inside my pot without rattling. I'm going to try and figure out some sort of laminate which won't add too much weight to try and prevent the cozy from losing it's silvery coating.

ncmtns
12-29-2004, 15:15
I have the same Timex compass watch. Its a great watch.. until the battery dies out in the middle of no where! So now I carry as a back up a small reliable compass.

chris
12-29-2004, 15:43
All the questions have been rather well answered, but I thought I'd chime in anyways, as I like to see my words on the screen. By the way, there are no downsides to the WM ultralight. Superb bag. Remember that down can shift around. If you notice it thin over your chest, shake the bag a bit to get the down from the sides to the top.

1. Don't bother rolling your tarp tent. Replace the silynylon stuff sack that the tarp came with with something that is less skinny, but wider. Stuff, rather than roll. Put the stakes in a plastic bag and put that inside the stuff sack also. Carry your tarp (and everything you need to pitch) outside of the pack so that when you set up in the rain you can move quickly and not expose the inside of the pack to precip (use a pack liner, rather than pack cover). The various ULA packs that I've used have a nice, large external mesh pocket that can hold the tarp easily.

2. Keep the pole on the outside. I've done this for the past two summers without losing a pole. Also, you want everything for pitching outside the tarp so that you can pitch in the rain quickly.

3. No, don't worry about a compression sack. Just put them in a silnylon stuff sack, sized medium or large. Use the stuff sack as a pillow at night and put your pack under your feet. Clothes can take up a lot of volume. Don't forget about some cold weather gear. Do not risk hypothermia for saving an 8 oz thermal top. Bring a warm hat and liner gloves as well.

4. Carry the pad on the outside. During a break, sit in style rather than on something hard. The main downside with this is with rain, but you can always go with a pack cover rather than a liner. I currently carry my Z-rest inside since it acts as a partial frame. If you do carry it on the outside, one standard way to do it is to put it under the lid of the pack.

5. Can't help you there. I've never used one and can't see the reason for bringing one for the way in which I cook. In the winter time I've got other stoves with higher heat outputs.

6. I've got my tarp in a silnylon stuff sack, clothes in another, and food in another. Other, little things go in ziplocks and end up in the food bag or clothes bag eventually. Remember that you have to seam seal your stuff sacks. Eventually you'll end up with so few things that you're hauling, and a normal routine, that what seems like chaos now is simplicity later. I can go from in my sleeping bag to packed and walking in 10 minutes, with a smoke break.

7. I've changed my thoughts on this recently. I would just bring Wingfoot, which has most of what you need to know. Also, print out various resupply advice, such as Jack Tarlin's article, which you can find on this site. The ALDHA companion is nice, but doesn't add much to Wingfoot. The ATC data book is less than appealing for me. The main downside to Wingfoot is that he can be a little pompous at times, but on the whole I found his book to be pretty accurate. Rather than splitting things into lots of sections, just haul the whole thing. Sure, you're carrying an additional 3 or 4 oz, but, come on! It is only 3 or 4 ounces. Wingfoot is pretty small, as opposed to the massive PCT guides. Also, you get to read ahead and Wingfoot is split with data, then town info.

8. Just bring the watch. Getting lost on the AT is hard (although it is done all the time) and the chances of you getting lost, and your watch breaking, are slim. Moreover, given the nature of the AT, the consequences of not having a compass when you need it are not very dire. Of course, I could be wrong and you could be extremely unlucky.

9. Good idea for separate water hauling for the evening. Bad idea to haul it during the day. Water weighs a lot. Except for one or two sections, I've never had to haul more than a liter of water at a time on the AT. Sources are pretty close, although this might be a relative thing (I just got back from a trip where I hauled water for 60 miles between sources). Also, the mid Atlantic sometimes has further apart sources, but by the time you get there you'll have a good idea of how much you need.

Unasked for advice: Spend as many nights in the woods as possible before your hike. If you are starting in April, try to get four or five weekends in. Go for long day hikes if you can't swing a full weekend. Carry over hills if you can. See if you can find what your limits are, and where you comfort zone is. What is easy for you, and what is hard.

Peaks
12-29-2004, 17:18
AS others have posted, most of your questions are personal preference.

Compass: You are not doing serious navigation here. Just need a rough check on bearings occassionaly. The timex watch with compass is more than adequate.

Handbooks: Wingfoot has the mileages in it. No need for the data book. The ALDHA Companion does not have mileages in it. Data book might be nice.

Lilred
12-29-2004, 20:42
AS others have posted, most of your questions are personal preference.

Compass: You are not doing serious navigation here. Just need a rough check on bearings occassionaly. The timex watch with compass is more than adequate.

Handbooks: Wingfoot has the mileages in it. No need for the data book. The ALDHA Companion does not have mileages in it. Data book might be nice.

The companion doesn't have mileages?? It does give the mileages from Springer mountain and also between each shelter. Plus, you can get it online for free.

http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm

What mileage are you referring to?

SGT Rock
12-29-2004, 20:56
The mileage from the Databook has been co-opted into the WF Thru-Hiker Handbook. It is sort of a controversy, but anyway...

In the WF book you get the databook mileage between significant points plus all the re-supply, town, and shelter info that you need. I have wondered why such a book didn't exsist in the first place. I have also never really liked how the ALDHA companion is layed out. I like a book like WFs book, now if I would buy one is another story all together.