View Full Version : 14,000 miles. 28 months.
The Counselor
01-22-2011, 10:02
Lewis & Clark and the Corp of Discovery. May 1804 - August 1806. Granted they floated most of the way but imagine the weights they carried. Wonder how much they portaged? Bushwacked?
fiddlehead
01-22-2011, 11:53
They claimed to do mostly 30+ mile days, often carrying the heavy wooden boats filled with many heavy items like guns, bullets, knives and gifts for the indians.
I just don't see how they could do that.
I believe they exaggerated their mileage.
Fascinating story though.
Most CDT'ers drink from the spring that was really their goal: Find the source of the Missouri I believe it was. It is now named Pocohantas Spring near Lemhi pass in MT.
But they kept going of course and almost died a lot of different ways.
kayak karl
01-22-2011, 12:04
http://lewisandclarkjournals.unl.edu/index.html
kayak karl
01-22-2011, 12:16
After the expedition, the two would lead completely different lives. Meriwether Lewis was serving as governor of Missouri Territory in 1809 (just 3 years after the expedition ended). Lewis, a troubled individual, was not suited for the bureaucratic life and found himself deep amongst petty and jealous administrators. On the way to Washington to clear his name, he stopped at Fort Pickering at the Chickasaw Bluffs. Those there described him as mentally distressed.
Three weeks later, he was found in his rooms with two gunshot wounds at a roadside inn at Grinder's Stand, Hohenwald, Tennessee, just south of Nashville. He died the next morning on October 11, 1809. At the time, the shooting was called a suicide, but most people now believe he was murdered (randomly, not as a premeditated target). Jefferson -- for as long as he'd known the man -- admitted that he had suffered from "hypochondriac afflictions."
Clark would serve as governor of the Missouri Territory (from 1813-1820) and he continued to lead Native American affairs for 30 years, enjoying a high reputation as an authority on the West. Many hunters, adventurers and explorers would visit him in St. Louis for advice. He died at age 69 on September 1, 1838, while at the home of his son, Meriwether Lewis Clark.His cause of death is unknown and is only described as a "brief illness."
That spring at Lehmi, the(a) source of the Missouri river is at the Sacajawea memorial. If you hike the CDT the trail comes down to the pass about a quarter mile from the memorial. The source of the spring is just a typical hole in the ground and the water was fantastic.
Interestingly the expedition was following an indian trail by this point in the expedition. The divide was well known to the native inhabitants. That trail over the pass is long gone and now there is the CDT but it follows the crest of the divide instead.
The irony was not lost on me as I sat at Lemhi Pass that day. Here i was hiking the divide for fun when years ago the Lewis and Clark Expedition crossed this place for exploration. Of course the native Americans used the place for survival the whole time.
Anyways near Lemhi Pass one of Lewis and Clark's party straddled the spring waters in triumph and there is a place at the memorial where tourists.. and hikers :D.. can do the same.
Anyhow whether you hike or not if you ever have the chance to visit Lemhi Pass in Montana the Sacajawea memorial is worth the trip. It's a peaceful little spot and you really feel the history of the place.
As a side note for those wanting to hike the CDT. The history contained in the CDTS Wolf Guides was well worth carrying along IMHO.
http://www.windriverhistory.org/exhibits/sacajawea/images/sacajawea%20guide.jpg
There is actually a Pocohontas Spring in PA on the AT between port clinton and the hamburg reservoir.
hikerboy57
01-22-2011, 15:55
Lewis and Clark journals were one of the most fascinating pieces of literature I've ever read.No bounce boxes or resupply points either. And we b**ch about noice cream.
Presently their is some excitement about the trail..I live in the County Clark sarted the planning for the expedition.They are looking at some extensions of the trails presently and other info...They just had an article today about it...I just sent a email to NPS about the trail. Because you dont hear as much about it for a thru hike.Or maybe thats me...
Ive never b**ched about noice cream!?:D
hikerboy57
01-22-2011, 16:25
all right, frsh fruit
Lemhi Pass was where the dream of an easy NW passage came to an end.
Lewis looked across the pass hoping to find the source of the Columbia and an easy route to the Pacific.
"We proceeded to the top of the dividing ridge from which I discovered immense ranges of high mountains still to the West of us wth their tops partially covered in snow"
The phrase I would have used is "OH SH**"
And in something a Hollwood hack would never have tried to invent, just over the other side of the pass, Sacajawea was reunited with her long lost brother! Horses were given, supplies were gathered and they "Proceeded on".
As far the almost 30 MPD, that was Lewis and his dog Seaman. Clark and Co were often on the river. Lewis was often collecting specimens, making notes, etc. by himself.
His mileage is estimated based on his journal entries. He was a fit young man (30-32 yo during the years of the expedition), used to a rugged life between his military training and rural upbringing and I have no doubt he could do the ~25 MPD most modern thru-hikers do.
One of the highlights of hiking the CDT for me was following some of the footsteps of L&C. It was esp poignant for me as 2006 was the bicenntenial of the expedition. Lewis was 32 yo in 1806 and I was the same age in 2006. Kinda cool.
What's amazing about this whole expedition is that one man died (Sgt. Floyd) during the whole expedition, and that was due to a ruptured appendix (from what we can tell).
And the only violent conflict was with some young Blackfeet (bored, aggressive, young and male. Universal bad combo? :D) . Considering relations with the natives after the expedition, that, in itself, is an amazing achievement.
Harrison Bergeron
01-22-2011, 19:53
They claimed to do mostly 30+ mile days, often carrying the heavy wooden boats filled with many heavy items like guns, bullets, knives and gifts for the indians.
I just don't see how they could do that.
I believe they exaggerated their mileage.
Fascinating story though.
Most CDT'ers drink from the spring that was really their goal: Find the source of the Missouri I believe it was. It is now named Pocohantas Spring near Lemhi pass in MT.
But they kept going of course and almost died a lot of different ways.
It's kinda hard to fake it something that's documented so thoroughly and so easy to verify. They not only kept a log, the whole point of the journey was to make accurate maps. And obviously, the starting and ending dates are easily verifiable.
Do the math: 28000 miles / (28 months * 30 days) = 33.33 miles per day.
And that's just AVERAGE MILEAGE!!!
They had many zero days, and even established forts to sit out the winter. It's a mind-boggling achievement that would probably be almost impossible to duplicate even today. In fact, it seems like I read that someone tried to do it for the bicentennial and failed.
Don't forget, most of the people on this expedition were hunters, trappers, military men, etc. And young!!! Clark was 33 in 1803, Lewis was 30 and then so on.
All young, experienced and in-shape people.
(Charboneau was about mid 40s, but was a Quebecois trapper, so probably no slouch himself...even if he was a bit of sh** head).
Yeah..I kinda OD'd on L&C before my CDT hike. :D
fiddlehead
01-22-2011, 20:41
I hear you guys, but still, they were usually carrying wooden boats that must have weighed close to a ton (with all the guns, ammo, knives, gifts, etc) UPHILL. or pushed or paddled up river against a current.
Sorry, but i just don't buy it.
I've pushed lightweight canoes upriver on the Allagash river and portaged around the falls there, I made about 4-5 miles a day! (with about 50 lbs of gear and 2 people)
I admit they were probably a lot stronger than me, but they also found time to do botany experiments, drawings of wildlife, sextant readings, and long journal entries.
It's a part of history I never thought possible.
Now wait a minute.. Where did the 28,000 miles figure come from? :-?
A quick glance around the net and i found:
"Before Lewis met up with Clark, he began the expedition on August 30, 1803 in Pittsburgh PA. Lt. William Clark would offer to join Lewis on the expedition weeks later on October 13, 1803 at Camp Dubois (in present-day Indiana). From there, they sailed down the Ohio River towards St. Louis.
In spring 1805, they continued to the headwaters of the Missouri River, struggled across the Continental (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_miles_was_the_Lewis_and_Clark_expedition# ) Divide, and headed west along the Salmon, Snake, and Columbia Rivers to the Pacific. They landed at the mouth of the Columbia River, Astoria, Oregon. In total they had traveled 7,689 miles (13,532,640 yards; 40,597,920 feet). The expedition then ended on September 23, 1806 upon their return to St. Louis from Oregon."
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_miles_was_the_Lewis_and_Clark_expedition# ixzz1BocX92NW
And elsewhere...
"The expedition started from St. Louis, where the Missouri empties into the Mississippi, on May 14, 1804. Along the way, Clark oversaw the men and carefully mapped the route. Lewis made scientific observations and collected specimens of animals and plants. The trip was arduous -- the men lived outdoors, hunted for food, and rowed the keelboat (along with two smaller boats) up the river, often towing the boat from the shore when the current got too heavy or the river became difficult to navigate. They fended off huge clouds of mosquitoes that swarmed around them. The party made only 12 or 14 miles on a good day."
fiddlehead
01-22-2011, 21:14
But, i remember reading the journals a few years ago and often they would claim they made 30-40 miles a day while carrying the boat across land or pushing it upriver.
I would agree, 12-14 miles a day would be a good one from my experience of pushing boats up a river.
I'm sure they were arduous men. Cause they had a lot of stuff!
I seem to remember also that they needed to shoot enough elk and other animals to feed all the men who averaged 7 or 9 lbs of meat EACH everyday.
When they got to the Columbia river and had to live off fish and sweet potatoes i believe, they almost died because of the rapid change in diet.
Now wait a minute.. Where did the 28,000 miles figure come from? :-?
A quick glance around the net and i found:
"Before Lewis met up with Clark, he began the expedition on August 30, 1803 in Pittsburgh PA. Lt. William Clark would offer to join Lewis on the expedition weeks later on October 13, 1803 at Camp Dubois (in present-day Indiana). From there, they sailed down the Ohio River towards St. Louis.
In spring 1805, they continued to the headwaters of the Missouri River, struggled across the Continental (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_miles_was_the_Lewis_and_Clark_expedition# ) Divide, and headed west along the Salmon, Snake, and Columbia Rivers to the Pacific. They landed at the mouth of the Columbia River, Astoria, Oregon. In total they had traveled 7,689 miles (13,532,640 yards; 40,597,920 feet). The expedition then ended on September 23, 1806 upon their return to St. Louis from Oregon."
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_miles_was_the_Lewis_and_Clark_expedition# ixzz1BocX92NW
They talk about the part where clark went to Lewis and approached hm about the expedition? Then Lewis actually visit hom at his Home later in Bourtote Cnty Virginia and then they met in Penn... I live here where clarkes home is and the Historical society is...Bourtote Courthouse is one of the oldest in Virgina and the first county To recognise Ohio,Kentucky and Tennesee as states because they were actual held as part of Virginia...
"Lewis and Clark traveled more than 8,000 miles in less than two and one-half years, losing only one member of their party, at a total cost to the American taxpayer of $40,000." -From the NPS website
2 1/2 years=912 days
8,000 miles / 912 = 8.7 miles per day average
40,000 dollars / 912 days = 43.85 bucks a day
Hey they did it slower and more expensively than most thru hikers today:eek:
Anyhow, it seems like every source of info i can find right now says they did around 8,000 miles in 2 1/2 years.
fiddlehead
01-22-2011, 21:30
They spent the first winter in the Bitteroots I believe.
A very tough mountain range to navigate.
I've done some hiking in the Bitteroots and was amazed at some of the beauty and tough trails i found there.
I don't think they were carrying the boats anymore by that point anyway.
The 2nd winter was in WA state waiting for spring.
So, at least 4-6 months of that time, they sat still.
Unlike Sam Gardner, by the way who's out there enjoying the adventure of his lifetime.
They talk about the part where clark went to Lewis and approached hm about the expedition? Then Lewis actually visit hom at his Home later in Bourtote Cnty Virginia and then they met in Penn... I live here where clarkes home is and the Historical society is...Bourtote Courthouse is one of the oldest in Virgina and the first county To recognise Ohio,Kentucky and Tennesee as states because they were actual held as part of Virginia...
Would that be part of the expedition?
I suppoose that could be but it is not accounted for any of the data i can find. That happend in 1801 the expedition began in 1903
Anyhow here is an awesome site with all the info:
http://http://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/lewisandclark/index.htm
Thanks Iceaxe...next time your on the trail and in Daleville go to the County historical scociety in Fincastle up the raod they have all the books and writeing on it if your interested..They just had an article on the trail today...Thats why its funny to me this thread was started..strange coincidence...LOL
fiddlehead
01-22-2011, 21:51
Because you dont hear as much about it for a thru hike.Or maybe thats me...
Now, that's a thought.
Thru-hike the Lewis & CLark route.
I would like that.
Would need some kind of lightweight kayak to start i would think.
Blissful
01-22-2011, 21:53
Lewis and Clark journals were one of the most fascinating pieces of literature I've ever read.No bounce boxes or resupply points either. And we b**ch about noice cream.
Agree. We followed a good deal of the trail back in 2002 (by car, that is).
Now, that's a thought.
Thru-hike the Lewis & CLark route.
I would like that.
Would need some kind of lightweight kayak to start i would think.
I thought that this morning when I read the artice! Then I sent a email to NPS and asked why it's not a thru hike and why the ALDHA hasn;t promotted it...Waiting for a reply...But it could be done..Theres enough collapable kyaks to do just that....Also when I lived in Texas they had this 3 day event of 2 man teams to follow all the waterways down the colorado.My friend did it said it was tireing and alot of work but so much fun to do...
fiddlehead
01-22-2011, 22:09
Of course there would be a lot of road-walking now.
They followed the rivers a lot of times as hi-ways do.
I drove across route 2 once from Bellingham WA to the UP in Michigan and remember seeing many plaques and signs about the Lewis & Clark trail.
The Counselor
01-22-2011, 22:49
Good replies on a facinating subject. The trip was over 7000 miles one way, if my recollection of what I've read is correct. And in mocassins. Regardless, an epic, awe inspiring feat. Then consider the scientific and geopolitical results......
Not sure where the 28k figure came from either.
I do know Lewis often did walk close to 25+ MPD (at least according to Ambrose) when Clark was on the river. That's not to say he did consistently.
Damn fascinating journey.
One of my favorite outdoor quotes is by Lewis when looking upon the White Cliffs of Montana: "As we passed on, it seemed as if those scenes of visionary enchantment would never end".
As I said before, that is why I think many of us do these wilderness pilgrimages.
Because we want to continue to see and experience scenes of enchantment...and we never want them to end.