View Full Version : Sleep apnea on the Trail...
cameronjreed
01-22-2011, 19:38
Hi All,
I suffer from Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA). I use a CPAP machine every night. I understand that losing weight <i>can</i> help reduce sleep apnea in <i>some</i> people. The weight I will lose on the trail cannot be considered a good way to overcome apnea on the trail. There has to be another way to overcome sleep apnea and still be able to enjoy the trail.
Has anyone hiked the AT, CDT or PCT with sleep apnea? What did you do to overcome it? Any advice is welcome and appreciated.
Thanks,
Cameron :D
Wise Old Owl
01-22-2011, 20:07
Ouch yes, no you need to lose the weight first, My doc would not perform the Uvula operation until I had lost the 35 pounds, I lost it and kept it off for more than ten years. Avoid the crap go and subscribe like I did to a professional organization where you work yourself off 3 times a week and seriously work out. Get the best doc in the county and get the operation. No regrets - the machine is temp and not a true fix, over the next couple of years air will be forced into your stomach and into places you cannot describe by the machine.... Hey I even figured out how to run it off a battery so I could be with my son at scouting events. - I wish you luck but the answer is best handled with professionals.
Snowleopard
01-22-2011, 20:23
One standard bit of advice for sleep apnea is to lose 10% of your body weight. I was starting to get sleep apnea at a BMI of 28.5; at BMI=25 it's gone. For another medical condition went on a low fat diet very similar to the Dr. Dean Ornish diet -- very low fat (almost zero added fat), lots of vegetables, whole grains, mostly vegetarian. This diet seems to have lots of health benefits -- lowered blood pressure, lower cholesterol, heart health. I'd say I'm still 80% still on it. http://www.pmri.org/lifestyle_program.html#lifestyle-program and look up Ornish's books on Amazon.
My cousin was quite overweight and couldn't lose weight or exercise till he went on a CPAP.
Are there any battery powered CPAPs? From my reading, you shouldn't go off the CPAP while you still have sleep apnea. It would be hard to hike hard if you feel tired all the time.
Wise Old Owl
01-22-2011, 20:49
One standard bit of advice for sleep apnea is to lose 10% of your body weight. I was starting to get sleep apnea at a BMI of 28.5; at BMI=25 it's gone. For another medical condition went on a low fat diet very similar to the Dr. Dean Ornish diet -- very low fat (almost zero added fat), lots of vegetables, whole grains, mostly vegetarian. This diet seems to have lots of health benefits -- lowered blood pressure, lower cholesterol, heart health. I'd say I'm still 80% still on it. http://www.pmri.org/lifestyle_program.html#lifestyle-program and look up Ornish's books on Amazon.
My cousin was quite overweight and couldn't lose weight or exercise till he went on a CPAP.
Are there any battery powered CPAPs? From my reading, you shouldn't go off the CPAP while you still have sleep apnea. It would be hard to hike hard if you feel tired all the time.
No ++++ The solution is a 300 watt inverter and a 10amp by day charger.
The inverter should have an included low volt alarm to wake you up to rip off the mask if the unit is about to shut down
The battery must be deep cycle and above the size of an average car battery to get 6 hours of night service.
Tennessee Viking
01-22-2011, 20:58
Get the sleep apnea surgery.
Depending on your degree of sleep apnea, the most common cause is sleeping on your back. You may solve it by sleeping sitting up/side/stomach.
Just consult your doctor of other remedies.
Doc Mike
01-22-2011, 21:40
Avoid the surgery and the cpap just lose the weight!!
Doc Mike
couscous
01-22-2011, 22:14
No ++++ The solution is a 300 watt inverter and a 10amp by day charger. The inverter should have an included low volt alarm to wake you up to rip off the mask if the unit is about to shut dow.The battery must be deep cycle and above the size of an average car battery to get 6 hours of night service.
Agreed. I've used a 300 watt inverter and an actual car battery for my wife's CPAP during power outages. She says she would backpack with me if I would carry the required car batteries. That idea hasn't tempted me yet.
Wise Old Owl
01-23-2011, 11:10
Yea I did that for a week, the battery came with a handle, the adults were understanding, no regrets - I got the surgery, what a difference! Oh and losing the weight was the best thing I ever did, (now I have to do it again)
No ++++ The solution is a 300 watt inverter and a 10amp by day charger.
The inverter should have an included low volt alarm to wake you up to rip off the mask if the unit is about to shut down
The battery must be deep cycle and above the size of an average car battery to get 6 hours of night service.
No that is not correct. The AEOIMed Everest 2 has a battery pack that runs for about 10 or 11 hours per charge without a heated humidifier and the battery weighs about a 1.5 pounds.
http://www.activeforever.com/flyers/ev2.pdf
The full package weighs less than 4 pounds and can be charged in about 4 hours. The batteries are pretty small you could carry several and that would get you several days between charge points.
I know they are releasing a new version soon, but I don't have any info.
I have one of those mouthpieces that pulls your jaw forward a little bit - works great for me.
mister krabs
01-25-2011, 09:23
I also had the 3p surgery, it was good. I had enormous tonsils, a big uvula and a deviated septum. I had more than 250 apnea events a night. It was so bad that if I drank alcohol my uvula would swell up to double it's already large size due to the irritation of the snoring. I would choke on it and could feel it on my tongue in the morning. I spent years sleeping in the guest room.
Having all three fixed at once helped. Then I gained 30 lbs and it came back. I lost the weight and am back to normal. Weight is the key, if you are overweight you will never get better and have a good chance of stroking out at 50. I was able to lose the weight by going to a fitness bootcamp. It cost me 600$ but I lost 30 lbs in 3 months with the 5 day a week A$$ kicking workouts and have been able to keep it off with 2 workouts a week. Beyond the apnea benefits, my mood has been stabilized and I'm a much better hiker now. Heck I can even run a 5k now and couldn't go 1k before.
I never had a cpap because I didn't want to be limited by it. I try to get at least 20 bag nights a year, plus quite a few nights at family's houses and hotels. Besides this, I wanted back into my bed and my wife didn't want to try to sleep with darth vader. :D
Having said all that, I wish I had lost the weight first. Surgery is an extreme thing, and weight loss is better for you overall. Weight loss will help everyone to some extent though you correctly stated that for some people nore is necessary.
Depending on where your obstruction is, breathe right strips and a mouthpiece might help enough to get you through until the weight is off. If you're a back sleeper, you could try making yourself sleep on your side by wearing a biking shirt that has pockets in the back and putting a golf ball in the pocket. The ball in the small of your back will train you to sleep on your side which will help. I also found that using a small stuff sack filled with clothes as a neck roll helps keep my airway straight.
couscous
01-25-2011, 09:31
Looks like AEIOMed .. maker of the Everest 2 & Everest 3 went out of business.
http://www.aeiomed.com/
mister krabs
01-25-2011, 09:33
one more thing, get an allergy test done. Your nose is part of your airway and if your sinus or nasal passages are swollen, it will reduce your overall air flow.
Looks like AEIOMed .. maker of the Everest 2 & Everest 3 went out of business.
http://www.aeiomed.com/
Wow that is to bad.
There is a new system on the market but I have not seen it it person.
http://mytranscend.com/pages/AboutTranscend/
It kind of outside the box, but if it gets you on the trail :)
there is also something new that goes on your nose and increases the velocity of the air going in so it gets past obstructions. heard about it but haven't seen it.
Smith - insomnia
04-06-2011, 02:33
Hi All,
I suffer from Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA). I use a CPAP machine every night. I understand that losing weight <i>can</i> help reduce sleep apnea in <i>some</i> people. The weight I will lose on the trail cannot be considered a good way to overcome apnea on the trail. There has to be another way to overcome sleep apnea and still be able to enjoy the trail.
Has anyone hiked the AT, CDT or PCT with sleep apnea? What did you do to overcome it? Any advice is welcome and appreciated.
Thanks,
Cameron :D
I suggest losing weight can lead a long way in overcoming your problem of sleep apnea. Sleep apnea occurs mainly due to unhealthy lifestyle and excess liquor consumption that leads to snoring and stress as well as other health related ailments. So, do visit a sleep specialist and get yourself checked as I did the same last year and right now I am fit and fine.
ChadTower
04-07-2011, 16:35
I have OSA issues verified in multiple sleep studies. Maybe not as severe as others, don't really know, but I barely ever use my CPAP. I'm 35, I ran a sprint triathlon a couple years ago, I have no problem busting out a 5k on demand. Yeah, some mornings I wake up with a hangover I didn't earn. Some days I'm really tired. It hasn't ever stopped me from doing something I want to do. I even played semipro football after being diagnosed OSA. If it's not debilitatingly bad you can still do whatever you want. I put on my big boy pants and fight it out.
Jim Adams
04-07-2011, 17:07
Just go an have fun! You will be so tired that you will still sleep good and it won't take long to lose enough weight to start the change. I also have sleep apnea due to being overweight but I do find that if I'm out there longer than a week, I start to breath better, sleep better and the snoring goes away.
geek
ChadTower
04-08-2011, 09:29
Just go an have fun! You will be so tired that you will still sleep good and it won't take long to lose enough weight to start the change. I also have sleep apnea due to being overweight but I do find that if I'm out there longer than a week, I start to breath better, sleep better and the snoring goes away.
What would be interesting to see is how the apnea affects recovery from a 20 mile day. One day, maybe not so much, but by the third or fourth you're going to be more run down than the guy next to you. It piles up especially quickly in older folks whose recovery is longer to begin with. Three weeks in, if you're still having apnea issues, are you going to start having soft tissue injuries due to extreme wear without recovery?
Bootstrap
04-08-2011, 10:18
First question: how severe is your sleep apnea? If it's dangerous for you to sleep without a CPAP machine, you've got to change something and get clearance from your doctor.
A hammock can help, since it elevates your head and upper body a little. Or use the slope to do this.
My sleep apnea isn't dangerous, so I just ignore it and deal with a little extra fatigue. After a day or two on the trail, I am sleeping better.
tjforrester
04-08-2011, 17:11
I slept on my sides or my stomach until I lost enough weight for the apnea to go away. Keep water close at hand at night, make sure you are hydrated.
Wise Old Owl
04-08-2011, 19:12
No that is not correct. The AEOIMed Everest 2 has a battery pack that runs for about 10 or 11 hours per charge without a heated humidifier and the battery weighs about a 1.5 pounds.
http://www.activeforever.com/flyers/ev2.pdf
The full package weighs less than 4 pounds and can be charged in about 4 hours. The batteries are pretty small you could carry several and that would get you several days between charge points.
I know they are releasing a new version soon, but I don't have any info.
Its nice to know that someone is willing to argue with a guy that has
1. practical knowledge
2. Has tested this in the Field
3. Has five years of designing electronic Fire Alarm circuits for ADT. Did Three Years of Electronics in H.S. and built three computers from scratch.
One of the computers was breadboarded and had a green CRT.
The real issue here was my cpap experience was five years ago when the motors were more thirsty, The Deep Cycle as big as it was was enough to get me to 5-6AM The shutdown alarm for low voltage woke me up before the suffocation started. etc.
The CPAP you are showing has come a long way, making mine look like a real brick. I am glad that you took the time to look up and bring to the forum a better solution to the problem. And yes at first I took your post personally - for a few seconds......:D
jbsbestfan
04-08-2011, 19:29
I have apnea and have used a CPAP for about ten years. I wondered how this issue would affect my sleeping when backpacking also. I carry too much as it is and have no immediate plans to hike with a CPAP. The first three or four trips I did, I had trouble sleeping at nights. Then one day I did 21 miles at Cumberland Island, Ga. Amazing what that sort of workout will do to your ability to sleep. Then last year I turned to those nose strips before a 4 nighter in New Mexico. It worked pretty well (especially with 96 degree temps and long days going in and out of canyons). By the time I hit the last night I was a straight through the night sleeper. This carried over to a 5 night AT section hike last fall. Get the extra strength ones so they will stay attached. (they do hurt coming off in the morning). Losing 15 pounds last year helped also, so why stick to one method exclusively...try weight loss, strips, and long hard days. Good Luck!
ChadTower
04-11-2011, 09:59
I just don't see how the level of exertion during the day could have any effect on apnea. If your airway is blocked it is blocked - how tired you are doesn't matter if there is no oxygen going to your brain. The concept doesn't make sense from a medical standpoint.
I backpack with my cpap machine. I have genetics to thank...
First off Ditch the inverters and humidifiers.
Purchase a 12 volt DC Cpap machine. I have a goodknight 420g and with my pressure it requires 400ma to run. so for 1 8 hours night I need 3200mahours or 3.2 amp hours of battery. so for a weekend of backpacking I need 1 7 amp hour 12 volt battery.
There are a number of cpap machines on the market that claim to run on DC, but they use DC to DC converters to up convert 12 volts to 18 or 24 volts. not very efficient. Make sure the machine you guys runs directly on 12 volts DC
For extended trips I have 12 watts of brunton solar panels. in good light they will product 600ma and during the summer there is 10 hours of light so I could replace more power than I use in one night.
Deep cycle batteries and inverters are not needed
with a few intelligent choices it can be done.
The everest cpap machine is a waste of money. The batterys are insanely expensive.
My experience with this set up is 8 years now. So I know of what I speak and not blowing smoke up your behind.
jbsbestfan
04-11-2011, 10:38
To Chad: I know what you are saying, but the only problem my apnea causes really is that I snore (trying to get more air probably) and then wake up, thus never sleeping more than an hour or two hours at a time. On the nights after the hard workouts......I do not wake up. Maybe I am still not getting as much oxygen as I should, but I am least better rested.