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Hobbler
01-24-2011, 17:53
There has been some discussion lately pertaining to the “Old School” use and loyalty that some external frame packers have for their beloved “Haul-Masters” I am familiar with the merits and the criticisms of their use having used them in the 70's and 80's. Getting back to backpacking after a 30 year hiatus has enabled me to do the “upgrades?” and I have purchased many new packs of internal frame design from 40L to 68L. However, I really love the weight distribution being square over my hips that an external gives and have gone out and purchased a Carson 80 to fill in the stable. Large! I am happy with it and use it in an alternating manner when I want to hike and be luxurious. Probably would use it on a thru if I had the 5 months of time to go for it.


How many out there swear by their externals, what do you have, and what are your experiences using them?

CrumbSnatcher
01-24-2011, 18:03
1st pack was a kelty super tioga
2nd was a kelty 50th year anniversary pack.
i'm breaking in a new super tioga this year, i think its a 2003 or 2004 still brand new & sealed. there are other packs i'd like to try? but i usually only buy the green colored packs like olive drab,forest green and such.

Hobbler
01-24-2011, 18:50
1st pack was a kelty super tioga
2nd was a kelty 50th year anniversary pack.
i'm breaking in a new super tioga this year, i think its a 2003 or 2004 still brand new & sealed. there are other packs i'd like to try? but i usually only buy the green colored packs like olive drab,forest green and such.

I agree with your color choices and also share those prefereces and it shows in all my gear...The more low-key the better!

Jim Adams
01-25-2011, 02:26
I used a Peak 1 exernal frame pack in 1990 and did the R&D work on the XPD suspension for Coleman.
I have used and own or still own and use 10-15 internals since then but I have gotten 2 of the old Peak 1's with the XPD suspension in the past year. I will thru hike the AT again but not with an internal pack. None of my internals are as comfortable as those externals.

geek

MedicineMan
01-25-2011, 02:41
Funny how things come around. I've got a hike scheduled in 2 weeks and am going retro. I love the Circuit, I do. But this next hike I'm carrying the Jansport D2.

Zeno Marx
01-27-2011, 00:58
I've been hoping to find a Gregory Evolution (size medium belt and pack) for a long time now. I remember when they were first advertised. I wanted one right then and there, but I never bothered to find one. Difficult to break old habits.

Trailbender
01-27-2011, 08:08
I used an external on my month long section on the AT in 2009. I got rid of it in Franklin. It was kind of comfortable, and plenty roomy, and I liked the pack, but internals hug your back. The externals sway dangerously on some of the narrow parts of the trail, and could possibly throw off your balance at a critical time.

dmax
01-27-2011, 09:34
How could an external sway if you tighten up the straps?? Mine won't. I use a Jansport D5.

scope
01-27-2011, 10:10
I don't know if its a manufacturing cost thing or what, but the choices for externals are very limited and there's almost nothing going on design-wise. Now, I know that there is some cottage industry stuff out there, but almost nothing in the retail stores, while there are IMO too many choices for internal frame packs.

I agree on the weight distribution, and if I were carrying 35+ pounds, I would certainly want an external pack over any other design feature. For 30 lbs or less, the distribution is less important and the bag weight becomes more important, along with some other updated design features - for instance, I personally love hip pockets, but I have not seen an external with them. That's a minor thing, but its the type of thing that steers one away from externals when trying to decide which frame type to focus on.

I get the impression a company like Kelty is saying that a certain type of customer wants an external, that that type of customer wants more a traditional design and is not a high-growth demographic. As a result, they have done almost nothing to their external packs over the years while putting out many different versions of internals. My guess is that if someone took the lead in really marketing a more updated external, that it would be a hit, or would at least lead to more product choices down the line.

topshelf
01-27-2011, 10:13
How could an external sway if you tighten up the straps?? Mine won't. I use a Jansport D5.

I think it sways, from my experience, because the pack is separated away from your body. Because it is separated from your body and only connected to the frame at a limited number of spots it will sway, but that's just my experience with my pack.

But I have a kelty trekker 3950 and I think it's a great pack. The external frame does a much better number on my back after long periods of hiking.

Last year I did get a ULA pack. I split time between the ula and the kelty nowadays.

skinewmexico
01-27-2011, 11:50
When I got back in after 25 years off, I got a Kelty 50th Annivesary. Great pack, but at my advancing age, I'd rather save the few pounds with my ULA Circuit, or Gossamer Gear Gorilla. I lightened up my entire kit, so it's really no big deal.

generoll
01-27-2011, 12:12
I've gone back to externals because the internal frame packs leave my back absolutely soaked in sweat, even in cooler weather. On a developed and maintained trail like the AT I don't feel the need for the lower and closer fit of the internals. The externals also seem to have more outside pockets which reduce the need for tearing into my pack in the middle of the day for something that always seems to be at the bottom.

Wise Old Owl
01-27-2011, 12:24
Over the years I retired my externals, in favor of going UL and I haven't looked back.

The exception here is that an external can carry more weight, Trail Maintainers and hunters swear by them for moving chain saws and other heavy equipment. My last external I purchased a huge well padded hip belt and all I can say is what a difference! If it swayed then it wasn't loaded right.

http://www.cabelas.com/frame-hydration-packs.shtml

Zeno Marx
01-27-2011, 15:44
I don't know if its a manufacturing cost thing or what, but the choices for externals are very limited and there's almost nothing going on design-wise. Now, I know that there is some cottage industry stuff out there, but almost nothing in the retail stores, while there are IMO too many choices for internal frame packs.It must be in the numbers because all the big companies are operated by bean counters and not outdoor enthusiasts. Eureka, Gregory, Dana Design...all dabbled in externals, and even with great reviews in big publications like Backpacker Magazine, the sales must not have been there to make it worth continuing manufacturing and advancing the product lines. It probably has less to do with costs then having adequate demand to make it worth the costs.

I feel the same way about the lack of choices in all-leather hiking boots without a Gore-Tex membrane. I want a top-quality boot and no Gore-Tex. Not a lot of options anymore.

Hunters love those big externals because when they lug an elk hind quarter out of the backcountry, a couple aluminum stays aren't going to hold their structure as well as a full frame.

Tenderheart
01-27-2011, 17:40
My first pack was a Kelty something or other on a mountaineer frame. Brand new, it cost $52.00. Can you believe that? Great pack. Kelty ruled the roost back in the late sixties and seventies. Camp Trails is another name that comes to mind.

litefoot 2000

Roche
01-27-2011, 18:43
After 20 years using internals, I finally tried an external as I hike on trails and do not bushwack. The Kelty Trekker 3950 is now my go to pack. As mentioned earlier - far less back sweat, more comfortable, more adjustments, external pockets, and the ability to walk upright. Take one out for a test spin.

CrumbSnatcher
01-27-2011, 19:07
i first stepped on the AT in 1998
planned for 3-4 years before that(no internet)
anyone and everyone who was anyone all recommended the external for best pack for AT hiking. i think this is still true today and tommorrow!
i gladly except the 2-3 xtra pounds of the external because it carries the load better. and it makes the load feel lighter than the internal even if its not

Just Jack
01-27-2011, 19:55
I've got an Alpenlite that I bought back in the late 70's. Really like that pack.
Anyone know where I can get new shoulder spraps and waist belt. Know anybody
that makes new shoulder straps and waist belts.

skinewmexico
01-27-2011, 19:58
Alpenlite was always my dream pack. They were too cool. Closest I got (in terms of the hip belt) was a Jansport D5.

Trailbender
01-27-2011, 23:57
Over the years I retired my externals, in favor of going UL and I haven't looked back.

The exception here is that an external can carry more weight, Trail Maintainers and hunters swear by them for moving chain saws and other heavy equipment. My last external I purchased a huge well padded hip belt and all I can say is what a difference! If it swayed then it wasn't loaded right.

http://www.cabelas.com/frame-hydration-packs.shtml

Interesting. My pack swayed even loaded right and with the straps tightened properly. Probably just a quality of externals.

Zeno Marx
01-28-2011, 00:16
I've got an Alpenlite that I bought back in the late 70's. Really like that pack.
Anyone know where I can get new shoulder spraps and waist belt. Know anybody
that makes new shoulder straps and waist belts.One for sale on eBay right now. Buy It Now style.

CrumbSnatcher
01-28-2011, 10:18
i'll take the sway of the external over the
no pockets
sweating into the pack
pack weight riding on the shoulders

Rocketman
01-28-2011, 11:20
i'll take the sway of the external over the
no pockets
sweating into the pack
pack weight riding on the shoulders

I now regret having donated my old Kelty packs to the scouts.

I hated the lack of organizing side pockets on the internals.

For my GG Vapor Trail, I made some strap on external "pockets". I used some of the WalMart 3 packs of waterproof bags, with the roll down tops. I figured a way to insert a lower 3/4" nylon strap loop into the bottom seams, and just used an adjustable simple nylon strap loop at the top.

That meant that a lot of stops never involved opening up the pack at all, just the external pockets or the small packstrap pocket or the waistbelt pocket.

It also helped that I had greatly reduced the carried weight by relentless trimming and careful purchase of newer lightweight gear.

I think it is much easier to hitch a ride if you have an internal frame pack. It doesn't look so frightening to casually stick in the rear seat, perhaps next to a small child in a car seat.

jrwiesz
01-28-2011, 12:18
I've got an Alpenlite that I bought back in the late 70's. Really like that pack.
Anyone know where I can get new shoulder spraps and waist belt. Know anybody
that makes new shoulder straps and waist belts.

Try Kelty. :sun

CrumbSnatcher
01-28-2011, 18:05
i love my external pack pockets.
i can,could and usually do pack up and go within 5-10 minutes
me and the ole' dog were usually hiking by 5 am.
if i stayed in a shelter maybe a little later ,out of respect for others.:cool:
people were amazed how fast i could wake,pack and go. breakfest usually happened a few miles down the trail:D

Llama Legs
01-28-2011, 19:03
If we say that we are at the 80% potential of internal designs, then external frames are at the 40% point in development. The future will be in externals; generating power, assisting leg motion, breaking down into tools, etc.

On the other hand, look at me with my (unstructured bag) GoLite Breeze pack...:o

TallShark
01-28-2011, 21:09
in terms of externals being heavier, has any person/company experimented with different type of frame materials, carbon fiber comes to mind. I know this doesnt seem like the best idea from an economical standpoint but i could see a superlight external that was very well designed and selling well in the near future. Im young and i like the idea of externals and all they have to offer, it wouldn't take me but a second to jump on a pack that set itself apart from the norm. I like to be ahead of the curve. I'm going to do some research and maybe this could be a good project. I see titanium and cordura/silnylon being two possible material options.

... just a thought, I dont really know how feasible all of this is especially considering durability, but it sounds good to me.

CrumbSnatcher
01-28-2011, 21:19
i could be wrong but i thought the pack i wore on my 99 thruhike weighed a couple pounds more than my pack in 03'
kelty super tioga both years
in 2002 or 2003 they switched to the same frame that the 50th year anniversary pack came out with. lighter and stronger material
the frame is hour glass shaped now

map man
01-29-2011, 02:30
TallShark, there already is a company, though a small one, using carbon fiber for about half the frame of its external frame backpack. It's LuxuryLite (luxurylite.com). I bought one of their rigs and have been hiking with it for five years now. With my set-up, with three of their largest cylinders attached to the frame and the front pack, it holds about 4500 cubic feet, or 75 liters (though I never fill it to capacity) and weighs a little less than 2.5 pounds. The pack has its quirks, and it's expensive, but I've had good luck with it. It's my only pack and I would not trade it for an internal frame pack.

BradMT
01-29-2011, 15:23
i'll take the sway of the external over the
no pockets
sweating into the pack
pack weight riding on the shoulders

Thing is you don't need a pack swaying or sweating into the pack or pack riding on shoulders...

Problem is most of the UL/smallish internals are poorly designed in terms of frame size (length) and in terms of moisture transfer.

Also, a lot of folks don't know how to size, fit and drive an internal, in which case you're absolutely right, an external is far better...

CrumbSnatcher
01-30-2011, 02:44
bought a dana designs k2shortbed external tonight on e-bay (green)
i hope its as nice as it looked! photos to come:cool:

BradMT
01-30-2011, 11:41
IME, the old DD/K2 external frame packs were/are the best external's ever made, hands down. Nothing else even comes close.

I had a Terraframe... only external frame pack I've bought since 1977... I use externals for hauling elk meat out of the mountains.

CrumbSnatcher
01-30-2011, 13:32
any idea how many years dana made these packs?
a friend of mine thru'd with one in 99' that looks like the one i bought on E-BAY.
my kelty super tioga in 2003 had the stonger lighter pack cloth than my super tioga of 1999. that being said i just saw pitcures of a dana designs T1 pack that had the newer looking packcloth like on my 2003 kelty. did the pack,materials, or weights change much from year to year
any idea which year was best? IYO
it seems the pack got improved after D.D. bought out K2, if my info is right?

BradMT
01-30-2011, 14:51
IIRC, they were made for around four years and were only brought out after DD was bought by K2, but while Dana was still involved with the Co. DD was sold around 1997 to K2...

You could do a www.waybackmachine.org search for danadesigns and get a sense how late they were made...

BradMT
01-30-2011, 14:56
Did a search and the Loadmaster's showed in January 2004, but not December 2004... would assume they were phased out that year...

piecemeal
01-30-2011, 15:23
Used external frame Jansport many years and was talked into Osprey internal. I still long for the compartment organization of the Jansport. Section hiking 11 years contiguous northbound to near Piersburg VA. Will resume May-Jun '11 with one of the two packs...Piecemeal

Jim Adams
01-30-2011, 17:24
in terms of externals being heavier, has any person/company experimented with different type of frame materials, carbon fiber comes to mind. I know this doesnt seem like the best idea from an economical standpoint but i could see a superlight external that was very well designed and selling well in the near future. Im young and i like the idea of externals and all they have to offer, it wouldn't take me but a second to jump on a pack that set itself apart from the norm. I like to be ahead of the curve. I'm going to do some research and maybe this could be a good project. I see titanium and cordura/silnylon being two possible material options.

... just a thought, I dont really know how feasible all of this is especially considering durability, but it sounds good to me.

Although I don't use the "ultrlight" internals due to not enough support with 25lbs. in them I do have an array of internals from 2100ci-5000ci and my external Peak 1 is lighter than all but my Gregory G packs.

geeks

BradMT
01-30-2011, 17:43
Used external frame Jansport many years and was talked into Osprey internal. I still long for the compartment organization of the Jansport. Section hiking 11 years contiguous northbound to near Piersburg VA. Will resume May-Jun '11 with one of the two packs...Piecemeal

I used two different Jansport externals in the 1970's including the D3 with which I did around 800 miles of the AT using... did 1000 miles of the AT by the time I was 16 years old, all mostly with externals.

I switched to internals in 1978 and never looked back. But I will say, I think internal designs are losing ground (going backwards design-wise) nowadays (mostly)...

CrumbSnatcher
01-30-2011, 18:22
IIRC, they were made for around four years and were only brought out after DD was bought by K2, but while Dana was still involved with the Co. DD was sold around 1997 to K2...

You could do a www.waybackmachine.org (http://www.waybackmachine.org) search for danadesigns and get a sense how late they were made...
this is the second time i heard this,theres a pack on e-bay right now that says the same thing.
i thought D.D. BOUGHT OUT k2. not the other way around
my friend who has always wore one says dana designs bought out k2 and kept the k2 logo on for awhile.
confusing:-?

BradMT
01-30-2011, 20:21
Nope, Dana Design was BOUGHT by K2... I promise.

CrumbSnatcher
01-30-2011, 20:29
my new pack i just bought says dana designs with a k2 logo patch on it:-?
whatever the hell that means:D

Roland
01-30-2011, 20:36
this is the second time i heard this,theres a pack on e-bay right now that says the same thing.
i thought D.D. BOUGHT OUT k2. not the other way around
my friend who has always wore one says dana designs bought out k2 and kept the k2 logo on for awhile.
confusing:-?

BradMT is right.

From the DanaDesign.com (http://danadesign.com/) site:


In 1996, K2 Inc., the parent company of K2 skis and snowboards, acquired Dana Designs. In 2004, K2 Inc. acquired Marmot. In 2005, Dana Designs was merged into Marmot and became part of the Marmot pack line. In 2006, the Dana brand became Marmot, but the essential DNA of the dynamic frame systems designed in 1987 and refined every year since remain inside the Marmot packs.

sheepdog
01-30-2011, 20:45
I use an internal frame most of the time but I still like the old external for winter camping and heavy loads. Mine is like an old friend and sometimes I take it out just because. Funny how some other hikers tend to treat you different though. They think you don't know anything about hiking because of your pack.

Roland
01-30-2011, 20:50
my new pack i just bought says dana designs with a k2 logo patch on it:-?
whatever the hell that means:D

I think it means the pack was manufactured between 1996 and 2005. This is the period of time when K2 owned DD, but before they dropped the DD name for the Marmot label.

Hobbler
01-30-2011, 20:59
I use an internal frame most of the time but I still like the old external for winter camping and heavy loads. Mine is like an old friend and sometimes I take it out just because. Funny how some other hikers tend to treat you different though. They think you don't know anything about hiking because of your pack.


Yeah but one thing for sure is that if you want conversation, you will not find those friends of internals ignoring you. The frame will lend itself to being the magnet to many, many a question and discussion.

Just smile and hold your "old school" head high!

sheepdog
01-30-2011, 21:01
Yeah but one thing for sure is that if you want conversation, you will not find those friends of internals ignoring you. The frame will lend itself to being the magnet to many, many a question and discussion.

Just smile and hold your "old school" head high!
good thoughts there :)

zeus307
01-30-2011, 21:15
I to like an external frame. I used a coleman bozeman and truly love it and still use it today. I also have a 1995 Jansport Yosemite. Yes it is large but did and still does me well. I also have and use an internal frame, but still prefier "old faithfull" external frame. Just call me old school infantry!!! Got to love'em external frames, I do!!!

CrumbSnatcher
01-30-2011, 23:11
BradMT is right.

From the DanaDesign.com (http://danadesign.com/) site:
i wasn't trying to doubt anyone,apprieciate all thoughts
i just didn't understand why if k2 already purchased/owned dana designs
why put DANA DESIGNS on the pack at all?

RichardD
01-30-2011, 23:38
I use a Luxury Lite, have done for about 5 years. External pack on a Carbon fiber frame, pack consists of three barrel shaped bags that velcro to the frame. Its very comfortable to walk with after an adjustment period, its unusual to say the least. It has a separate hip belt that the pack slots into (a shortcoming in my view) and a front pack that counterballances the pack thus removing all weight from the shoulders. Expensive but great customer service. I will use it on my AT thru attempt this year.

beakerman
01-31-2011, 00:25
Still using a old ALICE pack. Fits me like the proverbial glove..I'm that one guy they built them for...I do not advocate anyone buying one unless you are the perfect body (for the pack that is) They are slightly adjustable...and my that I mean you can manage the size differences you get from eating and going to the bathroom through out the day...but if you are like me and have the perfect body then they are great. I can always look over my shoulder with out standing funny to see who or what is behind me. I can't do that with my internal frame pack its just too tall behind my head. I can also duck under downed trees and such for the same reasons. Going bush whacking is great! Just cinch up the shoulder straps and off I go.

Roland
01-31-2011, 03:31
i just didn't understand why if k2 already purchased/owned dana designs
why put DANA DESIGNS on the pack at all?

I suppose for the same reason KFC retained its name over the years, even when it was bought out by Nabisco, Pepsi, etc--brand recognition.

Dana Designs was a recognized name in the pack industry, so K2 kept the DD badge to help sell the product.

Zeno Marx
01-31-2011, 04:50
i just didn't understand why if k2 already purchased/owned dana designs why put DANA DESIGNS on the pack at all?Dana Design dominated market share in the upper-line packs and had devote followings in other areas as well (there's even a crazy collector market in Japan). K2 held onto that name as long as they could because nobody else was able to build that kind of customer base in the backpack world.* It confused me, too. I was in a region that was greatly saturated with Osprey packs, so when I found out how dominant Dana Design was, I couldn't believe it.

*I'm obviously not saying that no other pack company had loyal, enthusiastic customers. I talked to a retired gear rep, and they said Dana had a huge chunk of the backpacking pie for most of the 90s. Everyone else nibbled at their ankles during those years.

CrumbSnatcher
01-31-2011, 10:15
should get my pack in the mail in a couple days i hope to find out what year it was made? might throw a photo up for viewing.
you guys are great! great info!

CrumbSnatcher
01-31-2011, 10:18
*I'm obviously not saying that no other pack company had loyal, enthusiastic customers.
talking bad about my KELTY super tiogas:mad:
now them fightin' words:D

CrumbSnatcher
01-31-2011, 11:28
http://cgi.ebay.com/Red-Dana-Design-K2-Long-Bed-Backpack-External-Frame-NR-/230578681495?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35af8f7697

just listed today, pretty sure the red ones are the older versions

CrumbSnatcher
01-31-2011, 11:30
http://cgi.ebay.com/K2-DANA-DESIGN-EXTERNAL-FRAME-PACK-SIZE-LARGE-XLNT-/170596059667?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b8514a13

this one looks like a monster loader :)

mykl
01-31-2011, 17:01
I have a 15+ year old Kelty Super Tioga that I started using again this past year after not touching it for a long time. I love all the zippered pockets on it. All my other packs (Osprey, Mystery Ranch, Mountainsmith) don't have many pockets which always leaves me digging for the right sack inside the pack. Annoying. I like the Super Tioga, but it's so bulky and a bit noisy. Also, the hip belt is a bit stiff (could be from age) and is a bit of a pain to adjust.
I recently purchased a Kelty Red Cloud 5600 at a great price. This is a very cool, comfortable, pack that has lots of pockets and openings. I will be using this instead of the Super Tioga when I have a big load (mostly "luxury camping" for a few days ie: real food, beer, unnecessary gear, bigger tent, beer, dogs stuff, some of my fiances stuff, beer, etc).
Back in the closet for the Super Tioga, but I'm sure one of these years I'll want to use it again.

Zeno Marx
01-31-2011, 21:36
http://cgi.ebay.com/K2-DANA-DESIGN-EXTERNAL-FRAME-PACK-SIZE-LARGE-XLNT-/170596059667?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b8514a13

this one looks like a monster loader :)With all that sale hyperbole, they neglected to mention the size and the actual model name. One of those sellers who doesn't realize information is more powerful than drivel.

Zeno Marx
01-31-2011, 21:38
http://cgi.ebay.com/Red-Dana-Design-K2-Long-Bed-Backpack-External-Frame-NR-/230578681495?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35af8f7697

just listed today, pretty sure the red ones are the older versionsI like how this seller is avoiding paying higher listening fees and/or reserve auction fees by asking $60-100 dollars shipping. (When I wasn't signed in, the shipping read $99.80.) I hope nobody rewards that nonsense.

CrumbSnatcher
01-31-2011, 21:47
I like how this seller is avoiding paying higher listening fees and/or reserve auction fees by asking $60-100 dollars shipping. (When I wasn't signed in, the shipping read $99.80.) I hope nobody rewards that nonsense.
i paid 25.00 for shipping 2 nights ago
LMAO when i saw that shipping

MedicineMan
01-31-2011, 21:53
Maybe best of both worlds external wise.
I've also used a like a lot the LLP (Luxurylite Pack) for its compatmentalization, easy add or remove cylinders, waterproofness of cylinders.
What I didn't like for AT use with the steep ups/downs was the front pack--it blocked my direct downward vision.
Just recently added two AARN Sport Front Pockets which allow you to see straight down.
I'll play with this setup this spring. For now I'm either pulking or using the Jansport.
When I head back to where I left off in Vermont it will be the ULA :)

Zeno Marx
01-31-2011, 22:01
Maybe best of both worlds external wise.
I've also used a like a lot the LLP (Luxurylite Pack) for its compatmentalization, easy add or remove cylinders, waterproofness of cylinders.
What I didn't like for AT use with the steep ups/downs was the front pack--it blocked my direct downward vision.I'm a fan of both minimalism and simplicity, but that pack seems to be underengineered/underdesigned. I'd like to see the frame more contoured and shaped to the body and movement. Just an observation. They probably know better than I.

harryfred
01-31-2011, 22:52
Bought into the internal is better because it is more comfortable when I started hiking a few years ago. I even passed up some real good deals on external packs at yard sales:datz Since then I have learned how you get the pack to ride is way more important than how much weight you are carrying. I have three internal frame packs now. I'm looking for an external pack now mostly for winter hiking and to do trail maintenance. I have met a lot of experienced hikers, including Geek than swear once I use a good external frame I won't go back:eek:

Zeno Marx
01-31-2011, 23:55
I have a Vortex 5800 from 1997 or so. That internal is so comfortable that I don't even bother taking it off at rest stops. For me, that is one of the greatest marks of a good pack. I'd love to find other packs that affect me the same way. I don't really care which frame philosophy takes me there.

Zeno Marx
02-01-2011, 00:20
i paid 25.00 for shipping 2 nights ago
LMAO when i saw that shippingThey said they incorrectly entered the dimensions into the eBay calculator, but now they're fixed. Sure thing. Still at $57 shipping. I believe it'll cost $57 to send the pack within the USA, and I'm planning to go buy a bridge in the morning.

TallShark
02-01-2011, 21:38
I recently purchased a Kelty Red Cloud 5600 at a great price. This is a very cool, comfortable, pack that has lots of pockets and openings. I will be using this instead of the Super Tioga when I have a big load (mostly "luxury camping" for a few days ie: real food, beer, unnecessary gear, bigger tent, beer, dogs stuff, some of my fiances stuff, beer. etc..

That is the most comfortable big load pack I've ever tried... I love the space. I dont have to compress my down as much, which is great. I enjoy a good dram of whiskey along with other luxury type items so i appreciate the 5600 ci's and the ability for the pack to carry the weight well. For the price point I assume you paid for it, you got a great deal. Right around 100 bucks as opposed to the $180 I spent.

Roche
02-01-2011, 22:13
I enjoy a good dram of whiskey

Single malt?

TallShark
02-01-2011, 22:25
Single malt?

Is there any other... I mean I just say whiskey to not sound pretentious. Coming from the south I've been surrounded by bourbon drinkers . And let me tell you I don’t just mean any whiskey when I say a good dram, I'm simply referring to the good stuff, IMO, the deliciousness we all know as single malt scotch whiskey, none of that other stuff for me… it’s too sweet.

And sorry to get off topic, I love external frame backpacks.

Roche
02-01-2011, 22:32
To externals, single malt whisky, and baseball.

TallShark
02-01-2011, 22:36
^ here, here... cheers to that.

Slack-jawed Trog
02-02-2011, 21:53
I used to own a Jansport D3, ~5500 ci. It was beast and never fit quite right and the bag was made from Cordura, it must have weighed close to 7# empty! :o Backpacking with it was an exercise in endurance and pain management-er, tolerance...
A couple of years ago I picked up a Jansport Carson, ~4900 (80 L?). It is the most comfortable pack I've ever worn. It's the Cat's A**!
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=45090&catid=member&imageuser=20488

I once tried some internal frame packs, and hated them...YMMV.

CrumbSnatcher
02-05-2011, 11:06
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=45248&catid=member&orderby=dateline&direction=DESC&imageuser=15584&cutoffdate=-1



my new dana design k2 shortbed arrived yesterday in the mail