Batteries - New Lithium or other

[hikerjohnd]

I hhave seen Energizer's new Lithium batteries and wonder what experience hikers have had - if any. The batteries are lighter than regular batteries and are supposed to last longer. I have 3 packs (Christmas gift) and plan to give them a try, but wonder what others think. Mine are all AAA size, so the weight saved is small, but ounces count!

[hungryhowie]

Once my first set of batteries finally gives out in my Zipka, I plan to replace them with AAA lithiums. Lithiums won't save you a whole heck of a lot of weight (unless you're carrying 27 different battery operated devices), but they do last twice as long and operate at much lower temperatures than alkaline batteries. Also, lithium batteries provide an even charge over their life-span, so that they will still provide a headlamp with the same brightness...right until they die. I guess there are pros and cons to that, but I'd rather have the brightness.

-howie

[SGT Rock]

Lithiums are great especially as a set of back up batteries in your repair kit. You can leave them in there for years and they will still be ready when you need them. This can be VERY important at times. Iam glad they now have AAA Lithiums so I can carry a set. Now if the extra cost of Lithium throws you off, just carry a set for back up and stick with Alkaline for regular replacement because the weight savings is almost none with a AAA. When the Alkaline die on the trail, put in your lithiums until you get to another town for resupply, then put the lithium batteries back in the repair kit. I have a set of very old AA lithium stillrolling strong using this strategy.

[Tim Rich]

I put four AA lithiums in my Canon Powershot A70 before my 100 mile section from Rangeley to Monson in July. They lasted through my hike until just before Christmas, taking well over 400 photos, a number of video clips, all with the LCD screen activated. I replaced them just before Christmas with regular AAs, got about 90 photos with no video and little review and the low battery indicator is now on. Conservatively, my experience was at least four to one. They're expensive, but lighter, so Sgt. Rock's repair kit idea is a good one.

Take Care,

Tim

[Haiku]

I use the AAs in my digital camera, and changed the batteries once on my thru-hike. I always use the LCD screen on my camera, and took over 400 photos. The batteries are lighter anyway, but the weight you save in spare batteries probably adds up too.

Haiku.

[Peaks]

Obviously, a better way to save weight is not to bring along spare batteries.

Myself, I bought a Tekka for my thru-hike in 2001. I continue to use it, and it still has the original batteries in it. Had I done night hiking, then I'm sure that I would have used the light more.

Likewise, cameras. If battery life is 400 pictures, just how many do you think you will be taking anyway? If you take 5 pictures every day, then the batteries should last almost 3 months. I'd just get another set in a major town like Waynesboro, or have them sent in a maildrop.

[Footslogger]

I use the AAs in my digital camera, and changed the batteries once on my thru-hike. I always use the LCD screen on my camera, and took over 400 photos. The batteries are lighter anyway, but the weight you save in spare batteries probably adds up too.

Haiku.========================
Man ...that's great news. I used NiMH rechargeables (AA size) on my thru in 2003 but had to carry a charger. If I could get away with a primary set of lithiums in the camera and a back up set in my bounce box that would cut down on a little weight and the need to carry that charger. Guess I'm off to the store to check out a pair of lithium AA's.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[grrickar]

I can't say enough about the Rayovac 15 minute AA (1800mah) rechargeables. I was skeptical about them, and I never really bought Ray-o-vac batteries before. I usually went with Duracell and Energizers.

My last section hike was 9.5 days and I took a Fuji FinePix A205 2MP camera, which takes 2 AA batteries. I had a 256MB card in the camera, and I was 11 pictures shy of filling the card before the rechargeables played out. They lasted 9.5 days of picture taking, some with flash, others without, using the LCD on the camera (not the viewfinder, which would have saved some battery life), and using the motorized zoom.

I went out and bought 2 more four packs and use them in everything now. 15 minutes to quick charge, or leave them in the base to trickle charge them to capacity. They will charge at a 'normal' rate in other chargers.

This quote is from their website, so you could argue they are tooting their own horn, but I find their IC3 rechargeables to be quite impressive.

<TABLE class=tipsBorder cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width="100%" bgColor=white border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=copyQA>5. How do Rayovac 15-Minute Rechargeable batteries compare to the best batteries available today? </TD><TD> </TD><TD class=copyQA>A: In digital cameras, the new Rayovac 15-Minute Rechargeable NiMH AA size batteries will last up to four times longer than an alkaline AA size battery and more than any comparable size lithium ion battery, based on current American National Standards Institute (ANSI) battery tests.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Footslogger]

Yeah ...my experience with the NiMH AA's is good too. But I do like the idea of not carrying a charger with me on distance hikes. I'm not putting my rechargeables in the drawer quite yet but I am going to test a set of the Lithiums just for the heck of it.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[Moose2001]

Hey 'slogger! The AA lithiums have been out for a while. I used them in 2003 for my Pocketmail. It ran the entire trip on the same set of batteries. What I'm glad to see is they finally started making AAA lithuims. Not sure when that happened but I could never find them before. The thought of running by Tikka or my small MP3 on lithiums is great! The tikka might burn for months on the same set!! Going to have to make a trip to the store and see if I can find some.

[Footslogger]

Hey 'slogger! The AA lithiums have been out for a while. I used them in 2003 for my Pocketmail. It ran the entire trip on the same set of batteries. What I'm glad to see is they finally started making AAA lithuims. Not sure when that happened but I could never find them before. The thought of running by Tikka or my small MP3 on lithiums is great! The tikka might burn for months on the same set!! Going to have to make a trip to the store and see if I can find some.=======================
Yeah ...I had seen them a while back in the AA size and put a couple in an old GPS I had but never really monitored how long they lasted. You're right, with the headlamps and small radios now running on a single AAA sized cell you could go all the way from Springer to Katahdin without replacing them. Still interested in seeing how they compare to the AA rechargeables in my digital camera too.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[Rift Zone]

Those lithium batteries rock. They are costly but they last longer. You break even there.

They weigh squat! :banana

I thank the Lithium Gods for the new AAA's.

[Footslogger]

[QUOTE=Rift Zone]They weigh squat! :banana

How many ounces in a "Squat" ???

'Slogger
AT 2003

[uscgretired]

If anyone finds out who carries them please share it on this forum. I went to Wally World yesterday looking for Triple "A" Lithium but no luck.

[Moose2001]

Doesn't look like the AAA Lithiums are in widespread distribution yet. I couldn't find them at Wally World either. Went to the Engergizer homepage and followed the link on where to buy. Surprisingly, you can order both the AA and AAA lithium batteries from REI!!! Until they make it into the stores, might be the easiest way to get your hands on them.

[Rift Zone]

How many ounces in a "Squat" ???


:-? I forgot the exact conversion.

[Rift Zone]

Now I'm just plain curious... :-?

Iv'e been using the Li AA's for years. I figure they weigh 50% maybe 55% of conventional batteries... what ever that is??? AAA's probably close... 60% or better.

Does anyone know what the true weights of these batteries are? Both Li and alkaline?

I'm interested in burn times as well. I have two Princeton Tec Aurora's and ample supply of Li. I'll get fresh batteries of each persuasion and burn them out. I'll post my results on a fresh thread when I have them. In fact, I'll post my cost as well. If we can get weights in the mean time I will repost those results and we might have a decent look at the true value of these things.

Later.

[hikerjohnd]

Here is what my trusty scale has for weight - all of these weights are for Energizer Batteries:

2 AA alk = 1.8 oz
2 AAA alk = 0.8 oz

2 AA Li = 1.3 oz
2 AAA Li = .5 oz

So, not a significant weight reduction, but if the battery life (of Li) lasts significantly longer than alk, the weight saved and fewer purchased would be worth it!

--John

[neo]

who makes triple AAA lithium batteries,how much do they cost:sun neo

[gravityman]

Here's the cheapest source for Li AAA that I've found : http://store.batteryspecialists.com/l92bp4.html

$8.99 and free shipping for 4. You can pay that much for 2 batteries from some resellers.

Gravity

[Footslogger]

Here's a question for the folks who have researched this whole battery thing ...

Eveready had had a battery on the market for a while now called the "Energizer e2". Have never looked really close but was wondering if that was an Alkaline or the Lithium battery everyone is talking about here. I've used the above referenced battery in my Tikka headlight for quite a while now, including my thru-hike in 2003. Got great life out of them but now I'm wondering if the Lithium" is something new in the AA and AAA sizes.

Thanks in advance ...

'Slogger
AT 2003

[Rambler]

The word is out that Lithiums last longer in cold weather. With temps in the teens, I had my Canon Powershot A75 freeze up. First, It would open then quickly close before I could take a picture. Soon, it would not open at all. With Lithiums, I have not yet had a problem. In fairness, however, I now carry the camera in a homemade pouch around my neck and between my skin and shirt to use body heat to keep the camera warmer while hiking. A smaller Kyocera Finecam has a Nicad type battery that has a very short charge time. It often would not make it through a weekend hike. On the other hand,the AA batteries have been very long-lasting.

[hikerjohnd]

http://www.energizer.com/products/default.asp

Here is a link to Energizers website. The Li battereis were not listed in the new AA or AAA size, I am asuming they are too new. According to the site, the e2 are titanium based (and I'm not sure I know anything about batteries short of putting a 9-volt on my tongue to test it) and designed for longer life in high drain devices. It seems to me that the new Li batteries will, if accepted by the public (based on price), replace the e2's, with the lighter weight and similar, if not longer, lifespan.

[gravityman]

Here's a question for the folks who have researched this whole battery thing ...

Eveready had had a battery on the market for a while now called the "Energizer e2". Have never looked really close but was wondering if that was an Alkaline or the Lithium battery everyone is talking about here. I've used the above referenced battery in my Tikka headlight for quite a while now, including my thru-hike in 2003. Got great life out of them but now I'm wondering if the Lithium" is something new in the AA and AAA sizes.

Thanks in advance ...

'Slogger
AT 2003

e2 seems to be energizer's general name for batteries for electronics. They come in two flavors (maybe more, but I have only seen two that I can think of). One is an alkaline with titanium, the other is the lithium. They will directly say Titanium or Lithium on the pack. They have had the Titanium varity for a while, the lithium for maybe a year or less in the AAA, long in the AA. Lithium should be significanly better than the titanium strain as they hold their voltage better over their life (there are two things that a battery needs to put out, voltage and current. As the battery is used up, the voltage tends to drop. This isn't such a big deal for flashlights, as they just get dimmer and dimmer. However, for eletronics, this is a problem, as below a certain voltage they no longer operate, even if there is still some current left in the battery. Thus the lithium will last a lot longer in an electronic device, and the flashlight will also give more even light over its life time).

Gravity

Gravity

[Footslogger]

Thanks Gravity ...appreciate the feedback.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[Drala Hiker]

BackpackingLight.com is selling a 4 pack of Li AAAs for $9 ($10 non-member). They also sell Li AAs at a bulk rate, not pre-packaged, for $2.30 each ($3 non-member). I also saw Li's at Target for same price as Wallyworld.

[SGT Rock]

Th only local store I could find the Li AAA was Radio Shack at $14.99 for a 4 pack. Not a good price. I think I need to find a good bulk dealer since I need about 14 of them ;)

[SGT Rock]

Found them here for less than $9 a pack for a 4 pack:

http://store.batteryspecialists.com/l92bp4.html

[SGT Rock]

And even better, here are 4 packs for less than $8 per pack, plus discounts for bulk.

[gravityman]

And even better, here are 4 packs for less than $8 per pack, plus discounts for bulk.

where's the link, huh?

:)

[SGT Rock]

http://www.neutronexpress.com/prod.cfm/298195/TECHNUITY_INC_/L92BP4/BATTERY_LITHIUM_PHOTO_BATTERY

[orangebug]

My Pentax Optio 43WR uses 2 AA batteries. I have used Energizer e2 Lithium batteries since early November, for about 500 photos. Today it finally indicated low battery condition.

It appears that the Lithium batteries do last a long time, but die fairly precipitously. Of course, I do not use the LED screen much at all, and use a SD card reader to transfer photos to my computer.

I'm pretty impressed with these babies. I haven't seen AAA Lithiums, yet, but they will eventually go into my headlamp.

[Footslogger]

My Pentax Optio 43WR uses 2 AA batteries. I have used Energizer e2 Lithium batteries since early November, for about 500 photos. Today it finally indicated low battery condition.

It appears that the Lithium batteries do last a long time, but die fairly precipitously. Of course, I do not use the LED screen much at all, and use a SD card reader to transfer photos to my computer.

I'm pretty impressed with these babies. I haven't seen AAA Lithiums, yet, but they will eventually go into my headlamp.=============================
Hmmm ...500 pics is imressive. About how many of your shots involved the flash ?? Just wondering how the Lithiums hold up under heavy flash use.

Thanks in advance ...

'Slogger
AT 2003

[orangebug]

I believe that I could look at the detailed info from the photos and answer that question. I suspect that maybe a third had flash, and another third were pictures taken between 20-40 F with wind, rain and fairly good chill factors.

I suspect that carrying one set of replacements would get a photobug hiker through 1000 pictures - possibly more. If I were thru hiking with my set-up, I'd bag a 1Gig SD chip with 2 AA batteries, click the "Lock" button when the batteries wore down and mail them home, and open my spare set, awaiting another package in another 3-6 weeks.

[Rift Zone]

I got fresh batteries and the Lithiums burned out my head lamp. I really didn't scrutinize the unit too much so I can't say for sure what happened.

Thankfully, REI is really good about: "It don't work no more." So I just got a new one and started over. Same result. The Lithium batteries fried my headlamp. This time there is no doubt that the LED's themselves have burned out. -all rich amber looking as opposed to the healthy pale yellow.

Suffice it to say the Li batteries have plenty of juice.

There is no doubt that the warm closet environment played a crutial role in the demise of my headlamps. It is cold in my garage... I'm gonna see if my remaining PT Aurora is going to self-destruct on Li no matter what.

I'll let you know how that goes in a little while.

[SGT Rock]

What sort of headlamp you using? Does it have those Xeon bulbs are some of the LEDs

[Rift Zone]

Princeton Tec -Aurora

3 conventional LED's.

I did like it a whole lot... Now, i'm reserving judgement for a few days.

[SGT Rock]

That is very odd, LEDs are supposed to last for thousands of hours with nothing to burn out. Do you know if that lamp has an electronic voltage control or anything like that?

[Rift Zone]

Good call... It does have a regulator that even on "High" output will hamper flow. That could certainly account for excess heat production.

I'm running the same Lithiums that torched my last lamp in my remaining lamp right now. All goes well for now.

[Footslogger]

Anybody having problems using the Lithiums in the old style Tikka head lamp ?? I recently bought some of the AAA Lithiums over the internet (thanks Rock for the source reference) but haven't installed them yet. After reading the post about heat build up I'm not sure I want to take a chance on frying my light.

Gonna have to replace the headlight one of these days anyway, since it is the original Tikka (purchased back in 2000) but I'd rather it died of natural causes than a user inflicted meltdown.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[SGT Rock]

That is what is worrying me. I haven't got them yet, but I ordered some AAA Li for my Zipka Plus and I don't want it to burn out.

[Footslogger]

That is what is worrying me. I haven't got them yet, but I ordered some AAA Li for my Zipka Plus and I don't want it to burn out.=================================
Wanna flip to see who goes first ??

'Slogger
AT 2003

[SGT Rock]

I just bought my lamp, so if it goes out I should be able to get it replaced ;)

The problem now is my batteries are way on back order and I may not get any for a while, you guys bought them too fast.

[Footslogger]

That is what is worrying me. I haven't got them yet, but I ordered some AAA Li for my Zipka Plus and I don't want it to burn out.=====================
Ya know Rock ...we might have to get one of those baseball caps with the fan in the beak.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[Footslogger]

I just bought my lamp, so if it goes out I should be able to get it replaced ;)

The problem now is my batteries are way on back order and I may not get any for a while, you guys bought them too fast.==========================
where did you order yours from ?? I got mine (2 x 4 packs) in a week

'Slogger

[Rift Zone]

Does the Tikka and Zipka have a regulator? -i'm not certain of their specs but I do know they fill the same market niche as the PT Aurora. Watch out guys.

[SGT Rock]

I ordered from here, but they had the price at less than $8 a four pack at the time.I think they had the price marked wrong. But I checked the status and they are still due out to me.

[Footslogger]

I ordered from here, but they had the price at less than $8 a four pack at the time.I think they had the price marked wrong. But I checked the status and they are still due out to me.===================================
Oh ...OK, I ordered mine from http://store.batteryspecialists.com/l92bp4.html

$8.99 for a 4 pack of AAA's. Probably paid too much but at least I have them. Of course, now I'm a little hesitant to use them ...I'm conflicted !!

'Slogger
AT 2003

[uscgretired]

Thanks Sgt Rock for passing on the website for the AAA Lith's. I ordered right after you posted the website and they were delivered within 7 days. Let the little blue lithium bunnies run. Semper Paratus (Always Ready)

[Footslogger]

Now for the big leap of faith ...do I stick one of those Lithium AAA's in my little radio or not ?? Who knows ...maybe I can dial in radio free europe ??

'Slogger

[David S.]

I was at Best Buy the other day and they had plenty of the AAA Lithiums. Sams used to have them but not any more. I am thinking that stocking up on these things may not be a bad idea. I don't think the general public will provide enough sales for these batteries because its hard for the average person to justify the higher price when theres much cheaper batteries right next to it. I will be surprised if many places will be carrying these batteries a year from now.

[hikerjohnd]

I got fresh batteries and the Lithiums burned out my head lamp. I really didn't scrutinize the unit too much so I can't say for sure what happened.

Thankfully, REI is really good about: "It don't work no more." So I just got a new one and started over. Same result. The Lithium batteries fried my headlamp. This time there is no doubt that the LED's themselves have burned out. -all rich amber looking as opposed to the healthy pale yellow.

Suffice it to say the Li batteries have plenty of juice.

There is no doubt that the warm closet environment played a crutial role in the demise of my headlamps. It is cold in my garage... I'm gonna see if my remaining PT Aurora is going to self-destruct on Li no matter what.

I'll let you know how that goes in a little while.
What were the parameters of the test? I have had Li batts in my zipka for about a month now, using on and off, and it is still going strong.

Thanks!
--John

[SGT Rock]

Maybe the problem is the Princeton Tec electronics then.

[The Old Fhart]

There can be problems using lithium batteries instead of alkaline in some applications. A battery’s output voltage is the result of the battery’s internal chemistry. An alkaline cell is rated at 1.5 volts (1.56 typical-new), a NiMH/NiCad around 1.2 volts (1.4 immediately after charge), and lithium is about 1.75 volts when new. Most modern electronic equipment is designed to operate on the voltages produced by the different types of cells. If you have a camera, GPS, whatever, that has a battery “gauge” LCD display you can see how the different types of cells, when new, give a different indication on the gauge.

Also there are differences in the different cells ability to supply current (the rate of transferring voltage). This can be thought of as a water tank with two different sized hoses on the outlet. If you use a small hose you will get the same amount of water but it will take you a lot longer than if you use a large hose. Some batteries within the same chemistry group are designed for higher continuous output. While initially you might think that a “digital” marked battery might just be a marketing gimmick, these cells are designed to give a continually higher output current than conventional batteries of the same chemistry.

The shelf life or self discharge rate of different cells varies greatly. NiCads my discharge in 6 months at room temps but in 2 weeks at high temps. Alkaline cells might last a couple of years. Lithium cells might last 15 years. At below freezing temps Alkalines act like dead cells but NiCad/NiMh and Lithiums work down to about –40 degrees. Keep in mind that some electronics, especially LCDs, don’t work below freezing. Check your LCD watch if it is off your wrist and cold. It looks like it is in slow motion.

Also of interest is the discharge curve (output voltage vs time) for the different types of cells. NiCads and Lithium have a very flat curve that drops quickly near the end when the battery is totally discharged. In a flashlight this means that you get good light output until the end of life when the light output drops dramatically, perhaps in just a couple of minutes. Alkaline cells have a fairly linear drop so you will see a gradually loss of light output and won’t be caught with the light dying quickly. Actually the reason they are called “flash” lights was the early battery chemistry could produce light for a short period of time then die. After a rest, they would produce light for another short period of time. The name stuck. The Brits call their light a “torch.”

LED lights can be thought of as regular LEDs, like the ones used as indicators on everything, but over driven, current-wise, to produce intense light, almost to the point of “lasing” which accounts for the warning about looking directly at an LED flashlight or a laser pointer. This overdriving does produce heat and if you put too high a voltage on an LED you could put enough current into it to cause it to self-destruct.

Some LED lights have electronic circuitry to regulate the light output and greatly extend the battery life. The way this works is the eye’s response is relatively slow and it “integrates” the light it receives. This is why you don’t see movies or TV flashing individual frames at a high rate but interpret these as a continuous flowing scene. The LED light electronics may produce flashes of light thousands of times per second. The duty cycle (ratio of on-off time) might be 10% meaning the light is only on 10% of the time but your eye see it as continuous light. Contrast this to the strobe lights used at nightclubs that have a very low flash rate giving the jumping images. These flashlight might get 7 or 8 times the battery life as an identical light without the electronics.

Bottom line is that Lithium batteries might damage some equipment that isn’t designed for the higher output voltage of these cells. It would be wise to check the owner’s manual that came with the particular equipment and see what it says. When Lithium cells first came out there were lots of problems with cameras and other electronics that wasn’t designed to handle the higher output voltage. Today most companies will state if there is any restriction on what types of cells can be used.

So was this TMI and was it worth reading? I’ll let you decide.

[SGT Rock]

Thanks OldFhart,

That sort of confirms what I was thinking when I suspected the Princeton Tec's electronics. If hikerjohnd can use a Zipka with Li batteries fine for an extended period of time then the Zipka/Tikka and all probably have electronics designed to use the voltage, but if Rift Zone has burned out two Auroras, it is probably because the Princeton Tec guys didn't plan for that in their design. As I understand these LEDs, some have voltage control switches and such to play with the voltage since some don't provide the required voltage required for some LED by simply connecting the battery straight to the diode - something like the Infinity Task Light comes to mind that drives a 3v LED with a 1.5 battery.

[The Old Fhart]

SGT Rock, electronically what happens is when you "ping" an inductor with a battery and remove it, the collapsing magnetic field produces a higher voltage pulse. This is the way you get the higher required LED voltage from a single cell. The circuitry used to do this can also be designed to control the duty cycle to extend battery life.

[Footslogger]

That is what is worrying me. I haven't got them yet, but I ordered some AAA Li for my Zipka Plus and I don't want it to burn out.====================================
Good news Rock ...I stuck 3 of the AAA Lithiums in my old Tikka last night and so far, so good. The light output of my Tikka is phenomenal with those babies too !!

'Slogger
AT 2003

[Footslogger]

There can be problems using lithium batteries instead of alkaline in some applications.
So was this TMI and was it worth reading? I’ll let you decide.==============================
Hey Old Fhart ...question for you. If the Lithiums are going to do damage is it likely to occur right away or over time ?? I placed 2 AA lithiums in my digital camera and it seems to be working fine. I also stuck 3 of the AAA lithiums in myu Tikka headlamp and it appears to be working OK.

Just wondering if this is a good indication that my two devices can handle the increased voltage or if I'm going to turn them on some day and find a blob of molten plastic.

Whatayathink ??

Thanks in advance ...

'Slogger
AT 2003

[hikerjohnd]

There can be problems using lithium batteries instead of alkaline in some applications.
So does the usage time for an item increase the burn out rate? I'm wondering if Rift Zone's test included turing on the light and letting it burn non stop, thus increasing the heat output. I've been using my zipka for maybe an hour at a time, but turning it off when not using it. I figure when its off it has time to cool (if it is heating up, and it does not feel like it is).

Thanks! And I enjoyed the long post above - very informative!

--John

[Moose2001]

Glad to hear the lithiums seem to work in the Tikka/Zipka. However, I am worreid about my small MP3 player. I was planning on using them in it but now I'm wondering if that's a good idea! I guess the only way to know for sure is to try it. I'd be interested in the same question that Footslogger and hikerjohnd asked. How do you tell if there's a chance of damage and how long does it take?

[Footslogger]

Glad to hear the lithiums seem to work in the Tikka/Zipka. However, I am worreid about my small MP3 player. I was planning on using them in it but now I'm wondering if that's a good idea! I guess the only way to know for sure is to try it. I'd be interested in the same question that Footslogger and hikerjohnd asked. How do you tell if there's a chance of damage and how long does it take?==========================
Moose ...I'll let you know in the morning. Running the "acid test" tonight in my MP3 with a AA lithium.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[Moose2001]

Thanks 'Slogger!! I'm looking forward to carrying only lithiums when I leave Springer. Hope this works out. Hey....say Hi to BA for me! I was just thinking about you guys last night when I saw your pictures come up on my screensaver!

[Footslogger]

Thanks 'Slogger!! I'm looking forward to carrying only lithiums when I leave Springer. Hope this works out. Hey....say Hi to BA for me! I was just thinking about you guys last night when I saw your pictures come up on my screensaver!===========================
Welcome. I'll pass along the greetings, but you'll be able to greet her in person in May (depending on your pace). We decided to fly back east and hike from Kincora to Damascus this year and hang out at Trail Days. Should hit Kincora on 5/7 and hike out on the 8th. I'm planning on going the lithium route myself this time. Leaving the charger and rechargeables at home.

'Slogger

[Groucho]

From http://www.machinedesign.com/BDE/Electrical/bdeee7/bdeee7_10.html

Some new Li batteries use iron disulfide (FeS2) for the cathode. The cathode material determines cell voltage. Iron disulfide has two advantages over other cathodes: It is inexpensive and generates 1.5 V.

Other materials, such as copper oxide (CuO) can also be used to make 1.5-V batteries. But Li-CuO batteries exhibit a problem called "voltage up." This refers to the open-circuit voltage of a Li-CuO battery, which is 2.4 V. Once connected to the circuit, the voltage rapidly falls to 1.2 to 1.5 V. But this phenomenon may damage the connected electronics. The problem can be avoided by using FeS2 for the cathode.

Anyone know which cathode material these new batteries use? I'd be careful using them with anything not approved for their use. It looks like it might be frying the control for the Aurora, which I have. Thanks for the heads up Rift Zone.

[SGT Rock]

Hey RiftZone,

How long was your light on before it burned out. I got some Li at wally world today and tried them in my Zipka Plus, my el-cheapo radio, and my digital camera. Nothing burned out when I tried them for a minute or two, but I want to make sure that it wasn't a "ten minutes later" sort of thing.

BTW, Wally world was selling them for about $10 a 4 pack. I went ahead and grabed a set for the back-up batteries.

[Footslogger]

I'm right there with you Rock ...so I'm interested in the reply as well. Popped them into the devices and cycled them up/down a few times but didn't really leave them on very long. Hope this isn't the sort of thing that sneaks up on us after they've been on for a while.

'Slogger

[Footslogger]

Well ...it wasn't a very scientific test but I stuck a AA lithium cell in my MP3 last night and listened to music for about a half hour. Didn't feel any heat or smell anything burning so I'm considering the experiment to be a success. Guess there may be a technical difference from brand to brand so I'll add that my unit is made by I-River.

So far I've put the lithiums in my Tikka headlamp, my Panasonic digital camera and now my MP3 player without any apparent negative consequence. Guess the only thing remaining now is to see how long they last.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[Rift Zone]

Old Fhart, I think you are right about the circuitry not being prepared for the new Li AAA. -But times have changed. I have more to share.

First... Rock, I do not share your views on Prinecton Tec headlamps. They are worthy gear and I love them still. I changed in my 2nd toasted Aurora for a PT EOS. -a high intensity 1 watt lamp. That baby is BRIGHT... A LED that can be used for search and rescue... No kidding!

I noticed a distinct difference in the motherboard of my new Aurora (my first replacement) verses the other two. Among the changes were the use of true springs to hold the batteries in. The old ones had a bent metal tab to secure the batteries. As for the old ones: I did turn them on and let them run... No down time. Also, in both cases, both of my Auroras were running right next to each other -nearly touching if not touching each other. In both cases I gave the lithiums to the older revision. The Aurora with true springs does not mind Li a bit. I have ran 3 sets of Li through my new Aurora... In warm conditions.... I more or less tried to torch it. It works still.

The old ones burned out within 24 hours but where within I don't know. I'm pretty sure they both cleared 10 mins. The first test was in my sock drawer. The second test was on a shelf in my closet.

Thanks to REI being so understanding about replacing the same lamp twice in one week, I do not fault PT too harshly... Li AAA are a new phenomena after all.

[SGT Rock]

First... Rock, I do not share your views on Prinecton Tec headlamps. They are worthy gear and I love them still. I changed in my 2nd toasted Aurora for a PT EOS. -a high intensity 1 watt lamp. That baby is BRIGHT... A LED that can be used for search and rescue... No kidding!

I think you are reading my intent wrong, I ain't bagging you light, I am just trying to figure out what the difference is. The only thing I could come up with is that the electronics in the Princeton Tec were the cause.

[Rift Zone]

I think you are reading my intent wrong, I ain't bagging you light, I am just trying to figure out what the difference is. The only thing I could come up with is that the electronics in the Princeton Tec were the cause.

No problem man. No offense taken. I think you are right and the circuitry was at fault. It just sounded like you were questioning Princeton Tec as decent gear overall. I feel compelled to share that the earlier described tragedies were the only issues I've ever had with PT and it seems the issue has been resolved. I just didn't want all bad press for PT :) It's worthy gear. :D