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1azarus
01-31-2011, 13:49
I've been winter hiking with plastic newspaper sleeve bags over heavy wool socks in trail runners for a while, and have just dealt with the bags creeping down around my heel as the day passes. I just did a three-day "experiment" in below 32 degree weather in PA...
day 1, plastic bag over sock in trail runner -- end of day, mostly dry sock, warm feet and bag bunched under my arch.

day 2, figured the bag wasn't doing much and it was cold enough to keep the snow from melting into my sock -- end of day, wet sock and colder feet.

day 3, plastic bag over sock in trail runner, with the excess plastic bag twisted around in the front and then knotted so that I could tie my laces over the knot -- end of day, bag still in place, feet dry and warm... happy camper.

Is there a better light weight way to keep feet dry and warm all day in the snow?

johnnyblisters
01-31-2011, 14:00
I've had really good experiences with your day 3 tactic, using them as a shoe liner.

There's a little bakery in town that has the perfect bread bags for my feet and hands. I bring 4 bags (1oz total) on every trip. They always come in handy for something.

mweinstone
01-31-2011, 14:20
plasit bags work fine. if you could afford real vapor barrier sox, they would take up more room, wear out fas and get lost like all sox. the trick to plastic bags is a good fit.no bunching . no tightness. no snaggy trippy sheets of plastic hanging to the ground. real vbl sox have a drawstring and cordlock that out perform bags by a trillion in heat and dryness and comfort. if only we had either cheap, real plastic, not costly nylon sox with cordlocks of string and cheap cordlocks, or a strap to hold bags.

mweinstone
01-31-2011, 14:30
i dont like statements like" the correct use of", but the correct use of vbl sox is to wear them between a liner and an insulating soc. just know that doing this creates an efficency level of heat retention that is unbearably hot during streneus hikeing in all but temps well below freezing . we wear bags over single sox and against our boots because its not cold enough to ,"use them correctly" but still aids in comfort and saftey.

garlic08
01-31-2011, 16:12
That's called "Bagtex" and I used the method on my AT hike, faced with cold and wet snow in the Smokies and my light trailrunners. I used plastic grocery sacks. I think it worked better than nothing at all. I always keep a couple of bread or grocery bags in my pack now.

skinewmexico
01-31-2011, 16:47
Subway bags work. You can wrap duct tape around your arch (over the bag), and it will keep your foot from sliding forward and blowing the toes out.

lutefisk
01-31-2011, 17:09
For some of us the bags are more to keep the odor in than the moisture out

TIDE-HSV
01-31-2011, 19:46
For some of us the bags are more to keep the odor in than the moisture out

Maybe if you didn't bury the fisk quite so long... :)

Graywolf
01-31-2011, 19:57
How many bags did you have to carry? Surley those flimsy things would tear up after the 1st mile.....Just saying..

Camping Dave
01-31-2011, 20:15
I use neoprene socks in cold weather. Hiking, skiing, shoveling the drive, whatever. They rock.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-2mm-Neoprene-Socks/732818.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3D searchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProduc ts%26Ntt%3Dneoprene%2Bsock%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26WTz_l %3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=neoprene+sock&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products

Hoop
01-31-2011, 20:25
Ditto Subway

AndyBees
01-31-2011, 21:03
When I was a kid growing up, we used bread bags to keep our feet dry......that was over 45 years ago.

MedicineMan
01-31-2011, 21:35
since childhood i've always worn the bread sack directly against the skin...against the skin and the body decreases insensitive sweat production..this means you are warmer, save a bit of water, and your insulation layer (like wool socks) is kept dry from your sweat.

ShaneP
01-31-2011, 23:38
I spray right guard on my feet and they don't sweat.

Works other places too.


S

mweinstone
01-31-2011, 23:45
mod, combine this thread with the stinkproof bearbag thread and hang. some guy just mentiond his balls and right gaurd in the same sentance. this ones done.

mweinstone
01-31-2011, 23:48
lil help in here?! hello?
where the hells that attendent?

BrianLe
02-01-2011, 00:39
My preference is bread bags or bagel bags (don't subscribe to a newspaper). Wear a thin liner sock, then the VB (vapor barrier) sock of whatever sort, then a thick wool sock. If footwear doesn't keep the wool sock dry then maybe another one outside, a sandwich to keep the wool sock dry.

Of course wool is warm even when wet, but it's naturally better if dry.

Since these are very light (maybe half an ounce for a pair), I carry two pairs, one to walk in if/when it's cold enough to warrant that (often it is not even in snow), and one pair to keep my dry change of socks dry when I walk around camp in my wet trail runners.

If out on a long enough trip, store bought VB socks can be worth it, though heavier. Warmlite.com sells these, and Integral Designs makes them too. I have no experience with Warmlite products; the I.D. VB socks have a seam along the bottom of the foot that isn't super comfortable, but really not all that bad either inside a wool sock.

mweinstone
02-01-2011, 00:50
wearing storebought vbls gives you such an advantage over the cold and wet. its just that they cost alot. thats thir only problem. they are wonderful when you got the bucks. but can be disruptive to a good fit. only roomy boots hold them well. and while we all should have roomy boots, most dont have the perfect fit. fitting boots is an art. and a lost one. you need to know some old tricks that have to be handed down. like kicking the concrete wall really hard in the store when no ones looking to see if you have a good fit. and walking down a mile of creek and walking them dry to be shure they fit. factory made vbl liners lent a confidence every hiker should be able to afford. but cant.

Rain Man
02-01-2011, 12:24
My experience and thus opinion is that plastic bags on feet pretty much make everything worse. Keeps sweat in, so feet are wetter. Socks can't do their job of wicking moisture, so feet are colder. I would use gaiters, but they are different. But plastic bags? No way! Been there, tried that. FAIL.

I have found that the biggest factor is how tight (or properly loose) my shoes are. Too tight = bad. Proper fit and movement = good ... and thus warm.

Rain:sunMan

.

booger
02-01-2011, 12:32
Ditto Subway

Just remember to take out the sandwich out first:D

mweinstone
02-01-2011, 12:34
rain man. maby it wasnt cold enough when you used them cause they work. its a fact. vbls are nessesary equiptment in severe cold like below 0. anything above, a really good boot can handle and bags only add a bit of extra warm and dry. cross the temp line into the upper teens and bags can be too wearm and moist.

1azarus
02-01-2011, 13:28
well, it is all tied up with your footwear choice. if you opt for trailrunners (even if they are goretex, not my choice, but a different subject...) and you walk in snow all day your feet and socks are going to be soaked, period. if the socks are wool, then they'll still be fairly warm, and if you apply something like hydropel before you start walking (which i think is wonderful) then your feet will be more or less intact, if not very comfortable. the question is, how do you stay dry(er) and (more) comfortable without a large weight penalty? i find that the hydropel, then wool sock, then plastic bag, then trailrunner approach works pretty well -- and i get limited condensation from sweat on my heavy sock... but there are two things that need to be done. one is to keep your foot insulation dry from snow melt, and the other is to keep your foot insulation dry from perspiration. perhaps the sweet spot solution is to wear a thin liner sock, then a bag (really the ideal location for a vapor barrier), then a thicker insulation sock, then a second bag to protect the insulating sock, then a trailrunner. as Rainman points out, you need the right sized footwear -- and i'd need a dedicated pair of half-sized bigger trail runners to try this one out. I haven't had any trouble, by the way, with the bags ripping, and use them for one day easily. I've re-used them for all sorts of things, including keeping my hands warmer as a vapor barrier.

BrianLe
02-01-2011, 14:31
Rain Man said:

"My experience and thus opinion is that plastic bags on feet pretty much make everything worse."

I think we should distinguish between different situations. In most conditions, I completely agree with that --- I rarely use the VB approach, particularly in my state where even in the snow in the mountains it's not typically really, really cold. A liner sock, a wool sock, then a goretex sock over that in breathable trail runners works great for me in snow.

But if it gets cold enough, a VB sock is a great option to be able to fall back on --- a whole lot better than frostbitten toes. And those plastic bags are, again, very lightweight.

Rain Man
02-01-2011, 16:41
rain man. maby it wasnt cold enough when you used them cause they work. its a fact. vbls are nessesary equiptment in severe cold like below 0.

The OP said it was 32-degrees.

I've hiked in snow all day in 20 degree weather without a problem, so long as I have the correct fit footwear. No plastic bags, VBL, nor Goretex needed.

Rain:sunMan

.

1azarus
02-01-2011, 17:27
The OP said it was 32-degrees.

I've hiked in snow all day in 20 degree weather without a problem, so long as I have the correct fit footwear. No plastic bags, VBL, nor Goretex needed.

Rain:sunMan

.

i like to wear the lightest practical footwear, around 12 ounces each shoe... so what do you see as correct footwear? if i can stay dry AND light i'll be getting my credit card right out!!! ...and I'm sorry i didn't get to meet you a few winters back in the Highlands. too cold! remember?

QiWiz
02-01-2011, 18:40
My preference is bread bags or bagel bags (don't subscribe to a newspaper). Wear a thin liner sock, then the VB (vapor barrier) sock of whatever sort, then a thick wool sock. If footwear doesn't keep the wool sock dry then maybe another one outside, a sandwich to keep the wool sock dry.

Yes, the warmest option is to sandwich a thick insulating sock between TWO plastic bags unless shoe is waterproof.

kayak karl
02-01-2011, 18:48
My experience and thus opinion is that plastic bags on feet pretty much make everything worse. Keeps sweat in, so feet are wetter. Socks can't do their job of wicking moisture, so feet are colder. I would use gaiters, but they are different. But plastic bags? No way! Been there, tried that. FAIL.

I have found that the biggest factor is how tight (or properly loose) my shoes are. Too tight = bad. Proper fit and movement = good ... and thus warm.

Rain:sunMan

.
i agree rainman. they make it worse. if it was a good idea boots would be plastic lined. oh, i used them in single digits. couldn't get them off fast enough.