View Full Version : Low Carb Hiking
GreasePot
02-01-2011, 16:07
I'm an experienced thru hiker, but recently diagnosed Type 1 diabetic on insulin. Anyone here have experience with a doctor-prescribed very low carb diet (and diabetes) and how to manage long hikes and food. I also prefer no-cook.
I'm going to do an overnight soon, and then a week-long hike - and then hope to start thru hiking if this all works out.
DesertMTB
02-01-2011, 16:14
I would be interested to hear some feedback on this as well. Diagnosed last week with diabetes
I am new to hiking but not new to low carb. I have found many suggestions with beef jerky, nuts, dehydrated fruit, pemmican, and roll your own trail mix. Again, I haven't tried depending on these foods during a hike so I'd like to hear some feedback/suggestion too.
--Wayne
mkmangold
02-01-2011, 17:19
[QUOTE=GreasePot;1106204]I'm an experienced thru hiker, but recently diagnosed Type 1 diabetic on insulin. Anyone here have experience with a doctor-prescribed very low carb diet (and diabetes) and how to manage long hikes and food. I also prefer no-cook.QUOTE]
Do some research on low-glycemic index foods. Veggie-wise, this would include nuts, beans, peas, seeds and so on. Meats are low-glycemic index by nature so consider jerky, pemmican, and dehydrating your own meats. There are plenty of posts here to help you with that so search the posts. Dreamsfields pastas are low-glycemic index and recommended for diabetics.
I have gone to a low carb diet and would be interested in what you find out.I just figured on long trips i could do the freeze dried backpacking food with the thought that i would burn all the carbs off from hiking all day?Bully
Talk to GoBlueHiker here:
http://www.rainforesttreks.com/diabetes.asp
He takes very long, solo treks. He'll help you out.
Sailor (The other one)
02-01-2011, 17:59
My wife Mudpie and I are hypoglycemic and high risk for type II diabetes. On our last trip we eliminated all processed carbs. Mudpie makes our dehydrated meals at home and substituted beans for the filler role often played by simpler starches, like rice, white potatoes, bread, etc. She makes a variety for jerky and we do bacon and dried egg freezer bag breakfasts, dehydrated veggies and fruit for snacks, nuts, seeds, etc. Dehydrating at home gave us complete control. Dehydrated veggies make - for our taste - good snack food, as does dehydrated fruit. With jerky, nuts, seeds, I would think no cook could also be done.
Good luck. Staying healthy so you can enjoy hiking is worth the effort.
I think you need to carefully explain to your doctor what you intend to do includng the expected number of calories you will burn.
I had a diabetic friend who accompanied me (and 700 others) on a bicycle ride across the country. He essentially ate the same things as everyone else on the active days. This was 1998, so I'm sure insulin measuring and delivery has improved since then as well
GreasePot
02-01-2011, 19:50
[QUOTE=GreasePot;1106204]I'm an experienced thru hiker, but recently diagnosed Type 1 diabetic on insulin. Anyone here have experience with a doctor-prescribed very low carb diet (and diabetes) and how to manage long hikes and food. I also prefer no-cook.QUOTE]
Do some research on low-glycemic index foods. Veggie-wise, this would include nuts, beans, peas, seeds and so on. Meats are low-glycemic index by nature so consider jerky, pemmican, and dehydrating your own meats. There are plenty of posts here to help you with that so search the posts. Dreamsfields pastas are low-glycemic index and recommended for diabetics.
Thanks. I need to be careful with Dreamfields pastas. My blood sugar keeps rising for hours when I have one serving.
gobluehiker
02-01-2011, 19:53
(thanks spindle for pointing me here!)
In my personal experience, it isn't as much about limiting the carbs you're eating, but reducing the simple/processed carbohydrates and replacing them with more whole grain and low-glycemic foods. Think "fiber." As rjjones theorizes, you will burn off whatever carbs you're eating, but avoiding the boom & bust cycle of hi/low sugars becomes important. You may find yourself having a severe sugar "spike" followed later by a crashing low as you quickly metabolize sugars and simple carbs. At least, that's been my experience. Eating better grains helps level that out and make it easier to manage. Honestly it's good advice for everyone, but diabetics are especially prone to the negative consequences of processed grains while trying to balance their highs and lows.
On a side note, many doctors... in my various experience... aren't clinically experienced with a diabetic who plans to be as active as you intend. I'm lucky to see a Sports Endocrinologist that works with diabetics training for various sporting events, so it hasn't phased her. But occasional general-practice doctors have given me dubious advice such as "maybe this is too big a risk for you" (phooey I say! :mad:), simply because they have no experience with what I'm proposing. Perhaps you wouldn't come across that attitude for an AT Thru-hike, I dunno, but I catch that sometimes when proposing a month solo in Alaska. I usually tell them to stick with what they know--professional medicine--and allow me to manage what I know--remote wilderness trips. Anyhoo, enough soap-boxing from me, I just don't want you to get easily discouraged if a medical professional tries to discourage you... it's entirely manageable with this disease. Healthier than a life on the couch, for damned sure. If you have any further questions feel free to e-mail me (the page Spindle linked to above (http://www.rainforesttreks.com/diabetes.asp) is my page, my e-mail address is there too), and all the best,
- Mike
<~~~~ A type-1 diabetic who loves long-distance trips, the remote-r the better!
gobluehiker
02-01-2011, 19:55
To add to my previous post... do pay attention to getting enough proteins and fats as well out there. A diet of "just carbs" is going to be more difficult to manage in my experience... the balanced diet works. Again, good advice for anyone, but especially important for the Type 1 diabetic.
This guy's story may be interesting to you; Will Cross.
http://www.willcrossmotivates.com/
From Wikipedia:
William H. Cross is an American (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/United_States) mountain climber (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Mountain_climber).
He has ascended the highest peaks on all seven continents and walked to both the North (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/North_Pole) and South Poles (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/South_Pole). He has also led expeditions to 15 unmapped, unexplored mountains in Greenland (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Greenland) and also in Patagonia (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Patagonia), Mountains of the Moon (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Mountains_of_the_Moon_(Africa)), the Sahara Desert (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Sahara_Desert), and the Thar Desert (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Thar_Desert) of India (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/India).
Cross has lived with type-1 diabetes (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Diabetes) for over 30 years. He manages his diabetes in the most extreme conditions, while facing challenges such as irregular meals; extreme temperatures; unusual sleeping patterns; physical exertion; high risks of frostbite and dehydration; and other less than ideal conditions in which to monitor glucose levels and administer insulin. He also works as a motivational speaker and seeks to get out the message that if he can control his diabetes in the most unlikely conditions, no one should feel hindered by diabetes.
He earned a Bachelor of Arts (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Bachelor_of_Arts) from Allegheny College (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Allegheny_College), a Master of Science (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Master_of_Science) in Education from Duquesne University (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Duquesne_University), and Secondary Principal’s Certification from the University of Pittsburgh (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/University_of_Pittsburgh), where he specialized in educational programs for troubled teens. Will, his wife Amy, and their 6 children live in Pittsburgh (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Pittsburgh), Pennsylvania (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Pennsylvania).
He is a member of the American Alpine Club (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/American_Alpine_Club), Royal Geographical Society (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Royal_Geographical_Society), Explorers Club (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Explorers_Club), and the American Mountain Guides Association (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/American_Mountain_Guides_Association). He received a Gold Congressional Award for exemplary service to the United States, granted for his initiative, achievement, and service.
I have met him. I used to work for an insulin company and have heard him speak on occassions. He has climbed everest among other things, I was not into hiking as much when I met him or I could have maybe gathered some great tips and insight into hiking and gear. Great guy.
Talk to GoBlueHiker here:
http://www.rainforesttreks.com/diabetes.asp
He takes very long, solo treks. He'll help you out.
Yep, Mike is a solid resource. Good guy to say the least.
I have delt with "the sugars" for eighteen years with both supportive and dictative endos. First and for most, we can do everything others can, but it may take a bit of foresight.
I was diagnosed at 8 yrs old. Earned my BSA Eagle award at 14. Thru hiked the Mid State trail (in PA) at 15. Hiked two weeks at Philmont at 16. Lived in the Bahamas for a semester of school (diving and kayaking four days a week while I was there.) Have since worked in wildland and metro firefighting, and EMS. And continue to work every summer at a summer camp for kids with diabetes. (The camp is important for a few reasons. It keeps me informed on modern tech and research, and allows me to encourage kids through showing them new extremes to can achieve, even with diabetes.) Last, I have a 2012 AT thru hike in the works, after having section hiked the last couple years.
Low Carb is not the way I go on the trail. The "right carbs," as said before, is more crutial. I really like noodles or rice and lentil meals on the trail because they keep my BGL level for long periods of time during extended work outs... like hiking. Protien and fats are your friends too! They help to slow absorbtion of carbs, and prolong the energy levels, just like for other hikers. BGL can be effected by exercise for up to 18 hrs after stopping activity, so while hiking I take about 1/3 the insulin I normally do.
I'm not an expert, but I have a lot of experience. If anyone on WB have questions about Diabetes, I'd love to give you any help I can. PM me with concerns, or even a phone # if you want to talk... This kind of thing is usually easier for me to talk about than type.
Oh, if anyone cares, my average Hbg A1C is 6.3 and has never been over 7.5 since diagnosis... (I like to run lower than most though.) MOST IMPORTANT DIABETES FACT: Everyone with diabetes is slightly or greatly different, but we all have to worry about the same highs and lows. Most of the time,living with it is completly different than the Dr. has read about... so ask.
GreasePot
02-01-2011, 21:37
Low Carb is not the way I go on the trail. The "right carbs," as said before, is more crutial. I really like noodles or rice and lentil meals on the trail because they keep my BGL level for long periods of time during extended work outs... like hiking. Protien and fats are your friends too! They help to slow absorbtion of carbs, and prolong the energy levels, just like for other hikers. BGL can be effected by exercise for up to 18 hrs after stopping activity, so while hiking I take about 1/3 the insulin I normally do.
I'm not an expert, but I have a lot of experience. If anyone on WB have questions about Diabetes, I'd love to give you any help I can. PM me with concerns, or even a phone # if you want to talk... This kind of thing is usually easier for me to talk about than type.
Oh, if anyone cares, my average Hbg A1C is 6.3 and has never been over 7.5 since diagnosis... (I like to run lower than most though.) MOST IMPORTANT DIABETES FACT: Everyone with diabetes is slightly or greatly different, but we all have to worry about the same highs and lows. Most of the time,living with it is completly different than the Dr. has read about... so ask.
Thanks for all the great replies!
I was diagnosed with an A1C of 16.2 two months ago and am currently on 30 carbs a day with no exericse, and go up to 50 with 3 hours of exercise a day (which is most days). I use two units of levemir in the morning, and two units at night. At my next visit to the doctor, I'm going to be adding insulin at every meal...
Since I'll be eating more carbs on the trail, do you think I will be cutting the levemir down? or would it go up?
My doctor is cool with exercise - but she thinks cookies and candy is the way to go to bring blood sugar up. Her example was maybe a cookie an hour to keep your blood sugar stable. I refuse to start eating junk now that I'm a diabetic! I followed her example for a few days and started eating candy, until I realized that wasn't how I wanted to eat.
I have a type 1 brother who normally eats high carb, and covers his carbs with insulin. I'd really like to keep my carbs low, so I don't get those terrible highs and lows that he gets.
Treating lows, on the trail or in the rest of the world should start with simple carbohydrates that absorb quickly. Dried fruit and fruit juice work the best and fasted for me, followed by complex carbs, like a handful of dry cereal or half a cliff bar, a few mins later. While I've treated with a snickers bar more than once, the added fat and protien in most candy bars will slow absorbtion and "spike" and plateau sugar instead of just bringing back to a safe level. (Basicly, a cookie an hour seems hinky to me.)
Being newly diagnosed you may be playing with the "honeymoon phase" too, so all normal bets could be called off. It sounds like your doctor is in gerneral practice, but maybe I'm wrong. Best thing to do is find an endocrinologist, and make sure you are receiving the best specific care available. It can be hard to find a Dr open to "extreme" activity, not just exercise, because treatment is much more individualized at that point.
I eat more calories and carbohydrates on the trail than in normal life, and lower my insulin. You may be different than me, but you have to start slow and check BGL A LOT, to see how your body reacts to different stimuli. I have used both a pump and syringe on the trail, and prefer the pump... judging from his website (I've never seen gobluehiker's site before tonight...), gobluehiker uses the syringe method, and still decreases his insulin and increases calories.
The hardest food for me to eat without yo-yo-ing my sugar is pizza. All the enriched white flour and extra fat does bad things, but is managable. Pasta is similar. I can manage fine if I make it myself, but if someone else or a resturant makes pasta for me, I have a difficult time judging what to do.
An example is from the camp I work at. Dietary staff made pasta for dinner one night last summer. The first group of campers got 1/2 cup servings of al dente pasta. Another group got soggy, over cooked 1/2 cup servings. Another group got over cooked and rinsed 1/2 cup servings. Under supervision of endos on staff they all got insulin as deemed needed for a serving. Because the water and starch levels were all differnet, even though they all got 1/2 cup servings, their BGLs went any which way.
Treatment is an art, and you have to be happy with it. You are living with it after all, not the doc, so trial and error is often the best way to learn, for both doctor and patient. Just keep a meter and glucose close by until you get a little more experience under your belt. Death by low BGL is much faster than DKA, but both are horrible. (Hope I made a little bit of sence somewhere in that ramble...)
I guess what I meant to say is... I have never worried about low carb counts, but if it's important to you, do it. Life with the sugars can be handled well or poorly, and any extreme in between... just like life without diabetes. (I also think we may be meaning different things when talking about carbs, because 30 carbs a day to me say 30 grams of carbohydrate. That's like only 2 slices of bread in a day, with no other fruit or grain or sugar at all.)
Toolshed
02-01-2011, 23:53
Beleive it or not, most pastas (semolina and Durham) are low glycemic foods. I had thought the opposite for many, many years. I also dry a ton of vegetables every summer. even when the grocer has frozen mixed veggies on sale. Dump them on the dehydrator. rehydrate with beans and salsa...mmhhhhmmmm....
gobluehiker
02-02-2011, 00:01
I eat more calories and carbohydrates on the trail than in normal life, and lower my insulin. You may be different than me, but you have to start slow and check BGL A LOT, to see how your body reacts to different stimuli. I have used both a pump and syringe on the trail, and prefer the pump... judging from his website (I've never seen gobluehiker's site before tonight...), gobluehiker uses the syringe method, and still decreases his insulin and increases calories.
Yeah, just to clarify (it's not stated on my website)... I was using shots when I wrote that page, but have since transitioned to a pump that I got on sponsorship last year. I just haven't gone back and updated the website since then. I really like the fact that the pump gives me finer-tuned control (of both basal and bolus doses) throughout the day.
Like you mentioned, I do cut back my insulin as well... for me it's about 40% of average when I'm out hiking. Obviously everybody's different, and your advice about TEST TEST TEST is spot on IMO. No one knows what works and doesn't work for them until trying it. It can be a bumpy road at first, but gets easier as you work out the kinks.
GreasePot
02-02-2011, 01:09
I guess what I meant to say is... I have never worried about low carb counts, but if it's important to you, do it. Life with the sugars can be handled well or poorly, and any extreme in between... just like life without diabetes. (I also think we may be meaning different things when talking about carbs, because 30 carbs a day to me say 30 grams of carbohydrate. That's like only 2 slices of bread in a day, with no other fruit or grain or sugar at all.)
Yes, I meant 30 carbs per day. 6 for breakfast, 12 for lunch and 12 for dinner. I don't eat bread, fruit, pasta, oatmeal, rice etc. Low carb tortillas are 3 grams of carbs. I'm following Dr. Bernstein's method. He says that if you eat very low carb, that you may be able to stay in the honeymoon phase for ever. This is also supposed to keep your blood sugar very stable. Dr Bernstein is a type 1 diabetic that did a lot of experimentation on his own, that became a doctor so he could help other people. My doctor trained under him... and I'm wondering if anybody here is on this strict of a diet.
I picked this doctor, because she is trying to save some pancreatic function for me.
I know my other option is to just go on Metformin - eat a semi-low carb diet, and then when my pancreas is gone (when the honeymoon period is over) - switch over to insulin.
Oat muscle. Its glycemic index is good. It's even better if you make it part of a powdered drink diet. You could make a drink using it that's comparable to Hammer Nutrition's Perpetuem...that is, a drink based on oat muscle would have a glycemic load 5 times lower.
I posted a thread about how to maintain my low carb diet while on the trail and it caused an all out debate and after I sifted through most of the drama there were some useful tips in there.
I continue to eat low carb and I had no problem while I was on my 5 day section hike. I chose good carbs, small frequent meals and plenty of water and there were times when I actually had to make myself eat! I stayed away from processed foods as much as I could and made portions as to not overeat.
Greasepot - I eat between 20 to 15 carbs per day - and love low carb wraps although I did have oatmeal several mornings on the trail as I made my own with organic oats with splenda brown sugar and some dried apples in a baggie as it was cold and it stuck with me until morning snack
Camping Dave
02-02-2011, 09:57
I'm an experienced thru hiker, but recently diagnosed Type 1 diabetic on insulin. Anyone here have experience with a doctor-prescribed very low carb diet (and diabetes) and how to manage long hikes and food. I also prefer no-cook.
I'm going to do an overnight soon, and then a week-long hike - and then hope to start thru hiking if this all works out.
You need to talk to a doctor who understands diabetes AND sports medicine.
Yes, I meant 30 carbs per day. 6 for breakfast, 12 for lunch and 12 for dinner. I don't eat bread, fruit, pasta, oatmeal, rice etc. Low carb tortillas are 3 grams of carbs. I'm following Dr. Bernstein's method. He says that if you eat very low carb, that you may be able to stay in the honeymoon phase for ever. This is also supposed to keep your blood sugar very stable. Dr Bernstein is a type 1 diabetic that did a lot of experimentation on his own, that became a doctor so he could help other people. My doctor trained under him... and I'm wondering if anybody here is on this strict of a diet.
I picked this doctor, because she is trying to save some pancreatic function for me.
I know my other option is to just go on Metformin - eat a semi-low carb diet, and then when my pancreas is gone (when the honeymoon period is over) - switch over to insulin.
Thanks again for the explaination. I've never heard of the "Bernstein Method" before now, so have some reading to do. The way you have discribed it, it sounds like a viable method at your age, but being diangosed at 8 yrs old, it would have been near impossible to stick to for me. Metformin is not normally, in my area at least, used for Type 1 treatment. Using it during the "honeymoon" could work I guess, but not something I've ever seen used... hmmm
Good luck with the diet and control.