View Full Version : Mount Oglethorpe to Springer Mtn.
NiteRaven
02-01-2011, 21:32
I am considering starting my hike at the AT's original southern terminus and then making my way to Springer. Can anyone point me to a guide with information on the best way to make the connection? I'm having trouble finding a guide online. I did however find a way to get up to summit Oglethorpe:
http://www.summitpost.org/mount-oglethorpe/620888
Thanks!!
max patch
02-01-2011, 21:42
Can't be done.
Best you are going to be able to do is to start at ASP and hike the approach. Most, but not all, of the approach is the old AT.
NiteRaven
02-01-2011, 21:51
That's what they said about putting a man on the moon. Anything is possible?
NiteRaven
02-01-2011, 21:58
Maybe I should be more specific, what was the original trail route taken? Are you saying it can't be done because the trail is no longer maintained? Google knows a way but it's probably not the original route. :)
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Mount+Oglethorpe&daddr=Springer+Mtn.&hl=en&geocode=Fbo3DgIdKTn5-ilPe0rxwINfiDEIpUeer0q7Og%3BFfBeEAIdCU_7-ilV_OZSrnZfiDEZVvL8oo-Ehg&mra=ltm&dirflg=w&sll=34.56111,-84.23404&sspn=0.492521,0.585709&ie=UTF8&z=12
Hikerhead
02-01-2011, 22:16
I believe all of the land had been subdivided into farms and housing. There's an old thread on here where someone asked the same question. I'm sure you could road walk it, if you wanted to.
It's mostly private property. I am sure you could get permission from some land owners, but not enough to make it worthwhile.
Tennessee Viking
02-01-2011, 22:27
The summit is now privately owned now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Oglethorpe
NiteRaven
02-01-2011, 22:28
How much do you think is on private property? Just the summit? The entire way?
NiteRaven
02-01-2011, 22:29
I think I can reach the summit without pissing anyone off, at least from what I've read. Just need a way to Springer. :)
How much do you think is on private property? Just the summit? The entire way?A substantial amount (guessing 90%) of the land that the trail traversed between Oglethorpe and Amicalola is now private property.
I think I can reach the summit without pissing anyone off, at least from what I've read. Just need a way to Springer. :)Sure, you can get to the summit. It's easy. I have done it and many others have as well based upon how trashed it is.
NiteRaven
02-01-2011, 22:47
A substantial amount (guessing 90%) of the land that the trail traversed between Oglethorpe and Amicalola is now private property.
That's a shame. Unless I dress in camouflage there's probably a good chance of getting shot crossing that many private properties. It sounds like a cool idea, but not if I have to road walk most of it...
Any other ideas of how I can make this happen?
It is not a cool idea at all. Give up and move on!
NiteRaven
02-01-2011, 23:07
What about this route? Road walk from Oglethorpe to the AFSP shelter:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=mount+oglethorpe&daddr=418+Amicalola+State+Park+Rd,+Dawsonville,+GA +30534-1003+(Amicalola+Falls+State+Park)&geocode=Fbo3DgIdKTn5-ilPe0rxwINfiDEIpUeer0q7Og%3BFRdjDwIdrHv6-iFJM3xv94Fqzw&hl=en&mra=ltm&dirflg=w&sll=34.522399,-84.295692&sspn=0.123188,0.146427&ie=UTF8&ll=34.521267,-84.280415&spn=0.123189,0.146427&t=p&z=13 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=mount+oglethorpe&daddr=418+Amicalola+State+Park+Rd,+Dawsonville,+GA +30534-1003+%28Amicalola+Falls+State+Park%29&geocode=Fbo3DgIdKTn5-ilPe0rxwINfiDEIpUeer0q7Og%3BFRdjDwIdrHv6-iFJM3xv94Fqzw&hl=en&mra=ltm&dirflg=w&sll=34.522399,-84.295692&sspn=0.123188,0.146427&ie=UTF8&ll=34.521267,-84.280415&spn=0.123189,0.146427&t=p&z=13)
NiteRaven
02-01-2011, 23:12
Well if you knew me, the fact you are saying it's not possible and discouraging makes me want to do it even more. I don't think I'm asking anything insane here. Quite the opposite, I feel like this starting point has a lot of merit.
Hikerhead
02-01-2011, 23:14
I like rt #2 better. Just an hour longer and it looks like you stay up high on a ridge, less walking on a major highway. Do it and report back us.
dont go trespassing man, you'll get shot for that in some places
NiteRaven
02-01-2011, 23:16
I don't want to trespass, that's why I'm asking for advice on the best route to travel.
Unfortunately, what you have just pointed out is true of many who attempt the Appalachian Trail. We see it every year.
Do you have any idea why it took millions of dollars of taxpayer provided funding to secure the route we have today? I'll give you a hint: private property rights and respect for them.
Hikerhead
02-01-2011, 23:19
Unfortunately, what you have just pointed out is true of many who attempt the Appalachian Trail. We see it every year.
Do you have any idea why it took millions of dollars of taxpayer provided funding to secure the route we have today? I'll give you a hint: private property rights and respect for them.
He's talking about road walking it now. Roads are public. He can walk on any road he chooses.
NiteRaven
02-01-2011, 23:21
Look, I'm asking for a LEGAL route. Stop being a dick and naysayer of what is or is not possible. I've already showed you a way I can walk on the road... I'm looking for any information on how to fill the gap.
road walk it man, get some permission IN WRITING, it shouldn't be bad if all the chicken farms are gone
MoodyBluer
02-02-2011, 06:08
Look, I'm asking for a LEGAL route. Stop being a dick and naysayer of what is or is not possible. I've already showed you a way I can walk on the road... I'm looking for any information on how to fill the gap.
heres a link to a discussion I had with hacksaw about the AT from Mt Oglethorpe couple of years ago...hope it helps shed some light. Would be interested to see your follow up on this...
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6485
I think the Bent Tree development is on Oglethorpe now. It's gated.
The Old Fhart
02-02-2011, 12:20
My 1942 guide gives a good description of the route. My 1950 guide comments that the logging and development had practically obliterated the trail and that the entire stretch to Amicalola SP was now on private land. The southern terminus of the Appalachian Trail was moved 20 miles north to Springer in 1958. That section of the trail is of academic interest only and not hikeable so I won't give out that information. I’m afraid you missed your window of opportunity to do that section by over 50 years. :D
Graywolf
02-02-2011, 12:29
My 1942 guide gives a good description of the route. My 1950 guide comments that the logging and development had practically obliterated the trail and that the entire stretch to Amicalola SP was now on private land. The southern terminus of the Appalachian Trail was moved 20 miles north to Springer in 1958. That section of the trail is of academic interest only and not hikeable so I won't give out that information. I’m afraid you missed your window of opportunity to do that section by over 50 years. :D
Earl Shaffers book mentions the same thing..
58starter
02-02-2011, 13:41
It would be interesting to check out old and present property records to see if any part of the trail is or was on the deeds for that area.
RE: Roadwalking
Buy a DeLorme Georgia Gazetteer. Or see if the library has one and make copies. Study a route to Amicalola Falls. Find your best option.
NiteRaven
02-02-2011, 14:34
veteran: Those are great maps! Is that the path of the original A.T.? If so that is very exciting news because if you follow my second Google maps link, the Monument Road (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=mount+oglethorpe&daddr=34.5354601,-84.2969092+to:418+Amicalola+State+Park+Rd,+Dawsonv ille,+GA+30534-1003+%28Amicalola+Falls+State+Park%29&geocode=Fbo3DgIdKTn5-ilPe0rxwINfiDEIpUeer0q7Og%3BFST4DgIdM7v5-imRs7Plw4JfiDFC9nyTVAJazQ%3BFRdjDwIdrHv6-iFJM3xv94Fqzw&hl=en&mra=ltm&dirflg=w&sll=34.522399,-84.295692&sspn=0.123188,0.146427&ie=UTF8&t=p&ll=34.52551,-84.295349&spn=0.123183,0.193119&z=13&via=1) directions follows your map very closely. Your map deviates when it follows a more northerly route and nearly touches Lake Sequoyah and then goes more North then East towards Amicalola State Park.
Thoughts anyone?
NiteRaven
02-02-2011, 14:36
heres a link to a discussion I had with hacksaw about the AT from Mt Oglethorpe couple of years ago...hope it helps shed some light. Would be interested to see your follow up on this...
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6485
Thanks for this link. I wouldn't have been able to find it otherwise. I'm trying to contact hacksaw to get further information.
MoodyBluer
02-02-2011, 15:29
Thanks for this link. I wouldn't have been able to find it otherwise. I'm trying to contact hacksaw to get further information.
To me it would be more interesting if a group could be put together to bushwack the old trail using GPS, getting permission from various private owners before doing so...my father lives in Big Canoe very close to the old AT along w/ hacksaw and I think this would be a great outing for a couple of days...we may not be able to trace the old AT step for step but I'll bet that we could come close with some minor detours...I've wondered whether the old trail is actually discernable as a trail anymore with shallow depressions or treadways still visible...possibly white blazes halfway up now old trees!
Newb posited that Oglethorpe was in Bent Tree development but I think Monument rd (leads to Oglethorpe) is actually just outside Bent Tree on the east side.
Mount Oglethorpe Terrain Map w/coordinates mouse tracking and click and drag.
http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.php?ll=34.485974,-84.33154&t=t1&z=16&icon=pgs
NiteRaven
02-09-2011, 02:57
After a decent amount of thought, research, and contacting those who've studied this problem first hand... I won't be making the hike from Oglethorpe to Springer. While I do see merit in the idea, recreating the hike or something even closely resembling it is not possible today without breaking the law or having considerable amounts of money buying everyone's land who owns it. Maybe if I was Bill Gates it would be a different story.
I have been told the old trail is virtually undetectable and you'd be trespassing on dozens of people's properties. Although I could road walk near the old trail, I don't see that any different than road walking a back country road anywhere else in America. The length of the trail changes every year. I guess one must realize and accept the A.T. is a dynamic and living entity. That makes it what it is.
This is a smart post. Spend your time on the trail and the present. If you don't want to hike it, there are lots of places that need people to maintain and work on them.Yes people can do what they are told is impossible but one can do the everyday stuff that makes the structure possible too!
Dances with Mice
02-09-2011, 20:29
Even if you followed a trail from Oglethorpe to AFSP, the original AT may not be reproducible within the Park.
Not that it matters anyway, as was rightly said. But it reminds me of a story from the GATC historical archives. The GATC had finally managed to get permission to change its terminus location, selected the location, re-labeled the part of the AT within AFSP to blue blazed approach trail, then went out and removed blazes from AFSP to Oglethorpe and did their best to eradicate the old trail. A lot of work but as always they got'er done.
Then they got a letter from a Boy Scout Troop. The Scout leaders reported that they'd taken their Troop on a hike from Oglethorpe to AFSP and couldn't help but notice that the Trail needed a lot of work!
Over the next couple weekends the boys and their leaders had been returning and as part of their Community Service had re-opened, re-blazed and cleared out the Trail! They'd spent hundreds of cumulative hours working and were now happy to report that the Trail was once again in pristine condition!
Bless their hearts.
MoodyBluer
02-09-2011, 20:43
Even if you followed a trail from Oglethorpe to AFSP, the original AT may not be reproducible within the Park.
Not that it matters anyway, as was rightly said. But it reminds me of a story from the GATC historical archives. The GATC had finally managed to get permission to change its terminus location, selected the location, re-labeled the part of the AT within AFSP to blue blazed approach trail, then went out and removed blazes from AFSP to Oglethorpe and did their best to eradicate the old trail. A lot of work but as always they got'er done.
Then they got a letter from a Boy Scout Troop. The Scout leaders reported that they'd taken their Troop on a hike from Oglethorpe to AFSP and couldn't help but notice that the Trail needed a lot of work!
Over the next couple weekends the boys and their leaders had been returning and as part of their Community Service had re-opened, re-blazed and cleared out the Trail! They'd spent hundreds of cumulative hours working and were now happy to report that the Trail was once again in pristine condition!
Bless their hearts.
LOL...great story!
Hikerhead
02-09-2011, 21:54
Even if you followed a trail from Oglethorpe to AFSP, the original AT may not be reproducible within the Park.
Not that it matters anyway, as was rightly said. But it reminds me of a story from the GATC historical archives. The GATC had finally managed to get permission to change its terminus location, selected the location, re-labeled the part of the AT within AFSP to blue blazed approach trail, then went out and removed blazes from AFSP to Oglethorpe and did their best to eradicate the old trail. A lot of work but as always they got'er done.
Then they got a letter from a Boy Scout Troop. The Scout leaders reported that they'd taken their Troop on a hike from Oglethorpe to AFSP and couldn't help but notice that the Trail needed a lot of work!
Over the next couple weekends the boys and their leaders had been returning and as part of their Community Service had re-opened, re-blazed and cleared out the Trail! They'd spent hundreds of cumulative hours working and were now happy to report that the Trail was once again in pristine condition!
Bless their hearts.
That's one heck of a story, I liked it. :D
Description of pre-1958 route of A.T. between
Mount Oglethorpe and Springer Mountain.
From: Guide to the Appalachian Trail in the southern Appalachians
ATC Publication No. 8, Second Edition - 1942
Pages 317 to 327
max patch
02-11-2011, 15:43
Veteran, those are interesting. Thanks for taking the time to post.
MoodyBluer
02-12-2011, 11:25
Yes...interesting and it seems to indicate that the stretch from Oglethorpe to HWY 43 (which I believe is now HWY 53) was unremarkable even back in the day...full of road walking.
Map of Mt. Oglethorpe to Springer Mountain.
From: Guide to the Appalachian Trail in the southern Appalachians
ATC Publication No. 8, third edition - 1950
MoodyBluer
02-17-2011, 17:43
Map of Mt. Oglethorpe to Springer Mountain.
From: Guide to the Appalachian Trail in the southern Appalachians
ATC Publication No. 8, third edition - 1950
Unless my eyes deceive me it appears that after leaving Oglethorpe the trail follows what is now Monument Rd for a good distance?
Newb here. I'm not really a hiker (more of an armchair explorer lol) but I joined this site b/c I was interested in the trail to the original last point of the AT. Using the maps veteran so generously posted, I made a Google Map of the trail. It follows a lot of roads, but some of it is trails and follows county lines. Hope it helps.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=34.563687,-84.240417&spn=0.244839,0.604935&t=h&z=11&msid=213719622175393627547.00049e50a231573cd31d4
speedykiwi
06-03-2011, 10:36
I would love to hike between Springer and Oglethorpe. I look at Mt Oglethorpe everyday and have dreamed of doing the whole AT (North to South, so that I may walk home). It would be absolutely amazing to quite literally walk home! Once I learned that Oglethorpe was the original Southern Terminus, I thought it would be a neat venture (hence why I am on this site today). Thanks for all the information that everyone's collected about such a neat and lovely area!
jfconnolly2
06-03-2011, 20:56
The old trail appears to follow Monument Road very closely. There are now many private homes in the area, so recreating a hike along the old trail appears to be nigh impossible, unless you want to do a raod hike. If, however, you are looking to hike from Springer to Oglethorpe along a route different from the old AT, I believe it is possible, without trespassing on private land and without walking mostly over old roads. In fact, I have hiked public lands off of Monument Road, and very close to Mount Oglethorpe, twice this year. The Georgia DNR has purchased large tracts of land between Amicolola State Park and Mount Oglethorpe, and these lands have been incorporated into the Dawson Forest Wildlife Management Area. A group called Mountain Stewards has created trails based upon some old dirt roads through these tracts of land, which appear to be failed developments. I have never tried to hike specifically from Oglethorpe to Springer, but the Mountain Stewards website showing the DNR lands appear to make it possible: http://www.mountainstewards.org/.
Somewhere, in a very cluttered house, I have a guide from the ATC from about the late 70s early 80s on recreating the "Original AT hike as best as possible now" They may still have it on file.
I only read it once & then put it in a "Safe place" which sadly, usually means I'll never see it again. But I do remember there being (30 years ago) not as much road walking as indicated above. The route I seem to remember was about 30 miles, with about 20+ being on the roads,,, at least I think that. There was a LOT of bushwhacking & orienteering type of travel, at least as I remember from my one reading. I don't remember any warnings "Do not trespass!" But it was 20 years ago when I got it, so,,,,,,,
I may have talked to Lori P at the ATC,,, could be wrong though. But I bet she would know if there is such a guide.
I do remember thinking that it was doable, even as unpleasant as 25 or so miles of road walking would be. I say go for it.
The property around Mt. Oglethorpe is private property. I recently bought a house nearby right off of Monument Road and have permission from to owner to go to the summit. I am considering offering shuttle and lodging to/from Amicalola that includes access to Mt. Oglethorpe. I can pick up or drop off at the Atlanta airport or at Amicalola or Springer. Pricing still to be determined. Email me if you are interested.
MuddyWaters
01-06-2013, 13:02
A lot of parts of the trail are significantly different from back then, for the better too, so why the fixation on that part?
Heck, even Earl Schaffer didnt actually hike the whole thing back then, he constantly got lost and missed short parts.
Never has been one trail, constant changing reroutes, etc make the "purist" concept a bit ridiculous actually.
But to each their own.
Maps 1 and 2 are definitely what is now Monument Road, dead-ending at a gate short of Mt. Oglethorpe with strict No Tresspassing/No Hikers signs.
Unless my eyes deceive me it appears that after leaving Oglethorpe the trail follows what is now Monument Rd for a good distance?
Yes. Monument Rd follows the original AT path between Mr. Oglethorpe and Hwy 136.
I think the Bent Tree development is on Oglethorpe now. It's gated.
No, Bent Tree is on the slopes of Mt. Oglethorpe but does not include the summit. The summit itself is private property and posted No Tresspassing/No Hikers. The next 2.2 miles of gravel road are along Monument Rd. with private homes on the West side and Big Canoe properties and private non-subdivision homes on the EAST. The next approximately 1.5 - 2 miles are paved along Monument Rd. with Monument Falls neighborhood on the West and Sassafrass Mountain on the East. It appears that the original AT continues across highway 136 along what is now Sunrise Ridge and Burnt Mountain Rd. for several miles before turning eastbound toward Frosty Mountain.
Odd Man Out
01-06-2013, 16:34
Never has been one trail, constant changing reroutes, etc make the "purist" concept a bit ridiculous actually.
I don't think the motivation is necessarily to be a "purist". I think "historian" would be the better noun. I enjoy comparing old maps to new maps to determine how things used to be and then going out and finding these places. On my last trip to Yosemite, we stayed at the Yosemite Lodge at the Falls. Unlike some of the other lodges in the Valley, I couldn't find much about the history of that lodge. So when I got home, I searched the internet for old maps of Yosemite Valley and determined that the only part of the original Lodge that is still there is the swimming pool. It was a fun bit of on-line detective work.
I am considering starting my hike at the AT's original southern terminus and then making my way to Springer. Can anyone point me to a guide with information on the best way to make the connection? I'm having trouble finding a guide online. I did however find a way to get up to summit Oglethorpe:
http://www.summitpost.org/mount-oglethorpe/620888
Thanks!!
We have great news for those interested in accessing Mt. Oglethorpe. The owner of 100+ acres around the summit is developing a park with hiking trails which is expected to be completed in 2014. The park was dedicated on a cold, raw, foggy morning on December 2, 2013. As a nearby neighbor our appreciation goes out to Mr. Ken Rice for his generosity and vision.
http://www.knowpickens.com/photos/eaglesrest.asp
Last Call
01-13-2014, 19:42
Glad to see the Boy Scouts involved, they've suffered a bit of a bum rap lately.
I'd rather be on the trail, in the woods, camping.
Wouldn't be surprised if this will happen to more of the AT in the future, pieces getting chopped off as the AT experiences increasingly greater pressures from human development and an expanding human population. It's probably inevitable. It already is an enormous task to protect the corridor. The ATC does a damn good job protecting it IMHO but the influences brought to bear by those with alternative agendas for the AT land and other resources will alter, at the very least, the current AT hiking experience.
Eagle's Rest Park around the summit to Mt. Oglethorpe is now open to the public: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/04/prweb11721035.htm