AT record hikes

[Squeaky 2]

ok just wanted to throw something out for discussion.

the AT is open for everyone to enjoy, to travel on 'foot'. whether its hiking, running etc.

how would you view getting together all the top athletes like current record holders andrew thompson, jenn pharr-davis plus some top ultra runners like kilian jornet, karl meltzer, geoff roes etc and even the likes of andrew skurka. everyone starts on katatdyn and hikes/runs for springer.

all with live feeds from 'spot' on the net to follow. no support crews just designated mail drops near the trail every 100 to 150 miles.

this would be cool right!?

[Roland]

Why is Mat Hazley's name not on your list?

[Marta]

It would be fun for us armchair viewers, for sure. Some of the athletes might find it motivating to be in a race; others might not.

[John B]

That would be great to watch. Be sure to invite the mythologized barefoot-running Indians of Mexico who can supposably like the wind over long distances. It'd be cool to see one of them finally win something.

[stumpknocker]

That would be great to watch. Be sure to invite the mythologized barefoot-running Indians of Mexico who can supposably like the wind over long distances. It'd be cool to see one of them finally win something.

A Tarahumara Indian from Mexico came in first place in the Leadville 100 in '93 and another in '94.

As for an AT record hike with any that want to try, I think it would be a great thing to have along the AT.

I would be willing to participate as long as there is no cut-off time. It would probably take me four to six months. Heck, I'm always near the back of the pack in foot races anyway....it's just fun to be involved.

I have run races against Bill Rogers, Alberto Salazar, Greg Meyers, Frank Shorter, Jim Ryan and lots of others. Those guys all beat me, but there aren't many events where you can actually participate with the best athletes in the world, rather than sit on the sidelines (or sit at your computer) being a sports supporter. :cool:

[stranger]

I think in theory this concept would be interesting, but not along the AT, something that required more thinking than the AT does, involving route finding, cross country, etc...

Second, I seriously doubt people like Andrew Skurka or the like (Justin Lichter, Scott Williamson, Brian Robinson, etc) would even consider such a concept, I believe they are well above such a stunt, and it would be a stunt.

Also, all four people listed above could easily break Ward's unsupported record on the AT anytime they wished, yet that have not tried to my knowledge, I think that says something about this kind of thing.

[hobbs]

IMO the individuals may not want to participate.But yes that would be quit interesting to watch to say the least...I think in a race like that the chances would be even all around with that field...

[Spokes]

The real winners are persistent not always the fastest:

"The most interesting thing about a postage stamp is the persistence with which it sticks to its job."

- Napoleon Hill

[4eyedbuzzard]

I think it would be "interesting", especially with some international presence from the Kenyans and perhaps those who run marathons like the Kilimanjaro and ones in the Himalayas. That said, I don't think it's going to happen. Too much chance for injury for elite athletes, too much time, and not enough money / interest.

[John B]

A Tarahumara Indian from Mexico came in first place in the Leadville 100 in '93 and another in '94.

As for an AT record hike with any that want to try, I think it would be a great thing to have along the AT.

I would be willing to participate as long as there is no cut-off time. It would probably take me four to six months. Heck, I'm always near the back of the pack in foot races anyway....it's just fun to be involved.

I have run races against Bill Rogers, Alberto Salazar, Greg Meyers, Frank Shorter, Jim Ryan and lots of others. Those guys all beat me, but there aren't many events where you can actually participate with the best athletes in the world, rather than sit on the sidelines (or sit at your computer) being a sports supporter. :cool:

I'm not so smart with a computer, but where did you find the Leadville archived results? The page I found only goes back to 2001. You have a link?

This is what I found. Did I overlook something?:
http://www.leadvilletrail100.info/index_files/Results/Results.htm

[Pedaling Fool]

I'm not taking sides here, because this is an issue that I only know a little (very little) about and I understand that it's best to be very skeptical of what one reads. NOT, just on the internet, but I believe many books spew BS, but I'm drifting now...

Here's what this link says: http://www.ultralegends.com/tarahumara-indians/

Excerpt:

Tarahumara public racing began at the 1928 Olympic marathon. The two indians that were running were not aware of the distance and when they finished, they were not tired and said, “Too short! Too short!” (Lutz 22) The Tarahumara first appeared on the Ultramarathon circuit in 1992 at the Leadville 100-mile run in Colorado. They were brought from Mexico and funded while they were here by Rick Fisher, operator of Wilderness Research Expeditions (Ramos A1). Fisher is disliked in the Ultra community because he is thought to be loud, outspoken, and rude. It is also believed that he uses the plight of the Tarahumara simply to gain attention for himself and for his organization. In their first race, none of the Tarahumara finished. In 1993, Fisher tried again but this time he familiarized the indians with the course, the equipment and the American racing customs . In 1992 the Tarahumara had many problems. First, they were unfamiliar with the course. Second, they did not know how to use the equipment. At night, they ran with their flashlights pointing up likes the torches that they are used to. Third, at aid stations they simply stood there and therefore received little nutrition and became weak and dehydrated. In their culture is not polite just to take food. They wait until it is offered. In the 1993 Leadville they fared much better. Tarahumaras took first, second and fifth place (Williams 8). The most amazing thing about the indians was their pace. The winner was fifty-five years old and only ran the second half of the race twenty minutes slower than he ran the first! Another thing that shocks the ultra spectators is Tarahumara footwear. They wear sandals called huaraches made out of old tire tread and leather straps. A Tarahumara won Leadville again in 1994. Later that same year in Utah at the Wasatch 100-Mile run, the Tarahumara were part of a controversy. Someone did not pay their entry fees so they weren’t allowed be official runners. They ran unofficially and a Tarahumara was the first to cross the finish line. This greatly upset race officials and the second person to cross the finish line had to be declared the official winner. The latest undertaking of the Tarahumara runners was at the Angeles Crest 100-mile Endurance Run this September. They did not fare well and only one of four entrants finished, in fourth place. It is believed that they went out too fast and became dehydrated .(Nazario M3)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My take, these people are really good at running long distances, which it seems like that's important in their culture, more so than speed. The body is lazy and when you train it in a particular way, i.e. running with distance vice speed as the primary goal, then that's how you run and while it would seem like they should easily run a marathon faster because they often run distances much further, that doesn't mean they will be able to run it faster than those that train specifically to run 26.2 miles under 2 hours (a goal yet attained, but you know some have it in their sights).

In short, they are amazing runners, but that doesn't make them invincible in all areas of running, but there is some real potential there....

[Pedaling Fool]

Here's another link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadville_Trail_100


Excerpt:
Leadville was also the venue for the American debut of the legendary Tarahumara (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Tarahumara) runners of Mexico. Tarahumara teams competed in the Leadville 100 in 1993 and 1994 and won the event outright. In 1993, a 52 year old Tarahumara runner named Victoriano Churro came in 1st, followed by his 41 year old teammate Cerrildo in second. In 1994 another 5 man Tarahumara team took on Ann Trason (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Ann_Trason) in a much-publicized race in the ultra community. 25 year-old Tarahumara runner Juan Herrera won in a record time of 17:40 that stood for 11 years until Matt Carpenter (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Matt_Carpenter)'s record-breaking run in 2005. Ann Trason (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Ann_Trason)'s time of 18:06 bagged her second place and has remained the best time for a female runner as of 2009. Leadville is also one of the valid qualifying events for the Hardrock 100 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Hardrock_100).

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Although, notice they don't hold the course record, close but no cigar.

[Pedaling Fool]

BTW, Matt Carpenter's record run time is 15hrs 42min 59sec.

[Squeaky 2]

I think in theory this concept would be interesting, but not along the AT, something that required more thinking than the AT does, involving route finding, cross country, etc...

Second, I seriously doubt people like Andrew Skurka or the like (Justin Lichter, Scott Williamson, Brian Robinson, etc) would even consider such a concept, I believe they are well above such a stunt, and it would be a stunt.

Also, all four people listed above could easily break Ward's unsupported record on the AT anytime they wished, yet that have not tried to my knowledge, I think that says something about this kind of thing.

above what and who? and to have the worlds best athletes on possibly one of the toughest long distance trails is far from a stunt.

i cant speak for any of the guys above apart from Justin. i dont think this is his thing, he is more into adventure than racing people. he is going on another amazing trip this spring, so watch out for that!

i dont doubt any of them could beat wards time if they wanted, but to be honest to average 36 mpd on the AT is far tougher than 40 mpd on any trail out west. i think it does say something about this kind of thing, wards unassisted average has yet to be surpassed.

[Pedaling Fool]

For the record, I think it would be kind of cool, sort of like the Tour de France of ultramarathons.

That brings up a question: What is the longest ultramarathon event?

[Pedaling Fool]

I got another idea about the Tarahumara, but don't want to cause this young thread to drift so I posted it here on this old thread of the same subject: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1109241#post1109241

[Red Hat]

I know of two folks out to set records this year. Jen Pharr Davis plans on doing a SOBO supported hike to set the new record (hoping to beat the men's record, as she holds the women's). Natureboy, Willie, plans on doing a NOBO unsupported hike to set a new record. Best wishes to them both!

[John B]

Here's another link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadville_Trail_100


Excerpt:
Leadville was also the venue for the American debut of the legendary Tarahumara (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Tarahumara) runners of Mexico. Tarahumara teams competed in the Leadville 100 in 1993 and 1994 and won the event outright. In 1993, a 52 year old Tarahumara runner named Victoriano Churro came in 1st, followed by his 41 year old teammate Cerrildo in second. In 1994 another 5 man Tarahumara team took on Ann Trason (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Ann_Trason) in a much-publicized race in the ultra community. 25 year-old Tarahumara runner Juan Herrera won in a record time of 17:40 that stood for 11 years until Matt Carpenter (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Matt_Carpenter)'s record-breaking run in 2005. Ann Trason (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Ann_Trason)'s time of 18:06 bagged her second place and has remained the best time for a female runner as of 2009. Leadville is also one of the valid qualifying events for the Hardrock 100 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Hardrock_100).

************************************************** ************************************************** ******************

Although, notice they don't hold the course record, close but no cigar.

I saw that about the Indians in the Wikipedia article. Just found it curious that was without any citation, which is exactly the knock against "Born to Run" -- all kinds of grand claims without much evidence to support the claims.. I'm not saying that it didn't happen, just find it odd that that I can't seem to find it in the 'official' archives of the Leadville. Maybe I'm just missing it, though.

[stranger]

above what and who? and to have the worlds best athletes on possibly one of the toughest long distance trails is far from a stunt.

i cant speak for any of the guys above apart from Justin. i dont think this is his thing, he is more into adventure than racing people. he is going on another amazing trip this spring, so watch out for that!

i dont doubt any of them could beat wards time if they wanted, but to be honest to average 36 mpd on the AT is far tougher than 40 mpd on any trail out west. i think it does say something about this kind of thing, wards unassisted average has yet to be surpassed.

When you said you wanted to open this up for discussion I assumed you would accept opinions other than your own...or was that not the idea?

Yes...I would consider this a stunt, and I'm sure some of those hikers listed in my original post, as well as many others, would consider it a stunt as well.

However, why not try to set it up and see how you go, perhaps you will get some genuine interest, perhaps you will not...only one way to find out.

[Pedaling Fool]

I saw that about the Indians in the Wikipedia article. Just found it curious that was without any citation, which is exactly the knock against "Born to Run" -- all kinds of grand claims without much evidence to support the claims.. I'm not saying that it didn't happen, just find it odd that that I can't seem to find it in the 'official' archives of the Leadville. Maybe I'm just missing it, though.
I understand and like I said before I take everything I read with a grain of salt and thus am not putting this out as fact. I was hoping someone in the know would get involved and set the record straight.

I found this interesting, it's an unrealted video, in it Caballo Blanco mentions them, not in detail, but he mentions them, but of course this is all circumstantial (not hard) evidence; it's pretty convincing that they participated, but doesn't prove at all the results. However, he only mentions meeting the Tarahumara in '94, but not '93:confused: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o375sYfPC3w

But like I mentioned in the other thread, I believe this culture is in a rapid decline and probably past the point of no return. So I expect most of what we hear in the future will be more folklore.

[Squeaky 2]

When you said you wanted to open this up for discussion I assumed you would accept opinions other than your own...or was that not the idea?

Yes...I would consider this a stunt, and I'm sure some of those hikers listed in my original post, as well as many others, would consider it a stunt as well.

However, why not try to set it up and see how you go, perhaps you will get some genuine interest, perhaps you will not...only one way to find out.


dont be daft that is exactly why i asked the question, to get other opinions. i just cant fathom how anyone would be above averaging 50+mpd or that that much physical/mental effort could be classed as a stunt. the names mentioned have all hiked the AT and have all done speed hikes of some discription.

[stranger]

You can't fathom it, I can...difference in opinions, get over it chief.

[mweinstone]

The idea of rushing down the whole trail repulses me to my hiker core. i wouldnt trade a moment on the AT for half a moment in a million years. I belive in going slow as molasses and takeing in every single bluberry. When me and johnney thunder or whitecrow or shwa run, its for fun. never ran more than 15.8 miles. Ran to davenport gap once from the second shelter back. All downhill and on an inch of soft snow. Diddnt even have to look at the ground. perfect condishions.Used to run 22. ran for 15 years and stopped one day like forrest gump. Just never ran again. ever.

[Johnny Thunder]

someday when i'm bored i'm going to run the at faster than any man. but only if i get bored.