View Full Version : Probably a dumb question, but do all shelters have privy's
hikerinnc
02-13-2011, 17:42
Hello all,
I have enjoyed short solo hikes (15-20 miles) for ever. My wife and 6 year old have enjoyed them once, for that is all they have ever hiked overnight. I took them to Grayson Highlands and we camped near Thomas Knob shelter beacause I knew of the nearby privy, which my wife requires. Most of my hikes have not been on the AT. Now are there always privy's at all the shelters on the AT? Especially in NC and VA? Thanks in advance.
IDK about NC or Virginia specifically, but I have been to shelters without privys, atleast the Bake Oven Knob one in PA does not.
The Snowman
02-13-2011, 17:47
most places yes, some places no. GSMNP being one place with no privys.
SmokeEater
02-13-2011, 17:48
No they do not. You can pick up most trail guides and they will list which ones do. I like the A.T Guide.
SmokeEater
02-13-2011, 17:52
Just hiked the GSMNP and there are 8 privys.
Pioneer Spirit
02-13-2011, 17:55
Just hiked the GSMNP and there are 8 privys.
One for certain at the Mt Collins shelter, at least before the revamp last year.
hikerinnc
02-13-2011, 17:59
Awesome, this site rocks. So many responses so fast. Sound like I might to invest in a guide book for NC,VA areas. Especially if that is all it takes for my family to enjoy some overnighters. BTW, that Grayson Highlands/MT Rogers hike, my then year old son totaled up 13.3 miles for and overnighter! Any recomendations on a guide book for the AT in NC and VA for privy info?
If you have to go quick, you can down load that info here: www.aldha.org
For years the PDF was free, but now you have to pay $8
shelterbuilder
02-13-2011, 19:54
IDK about NC or Virginia specifically, but I have been to shelters without privys, atleast the Bake Oven Knob one in PA does not.
LONG ANSWER TO A SHORT QUESTION:
While the ATC and NPS are trying to establish a certain amount of consistency in this matter, you need to understand that, for decades, backcountry sanitation was not in the forefront of everyone's minds - especially those who built the first - and even the second - generations of shelters along the AT. Indeed, for many years, it was simply assumed that folks in the backcountry just KNEW how to $h!t in the woods, and would go about doing this as a matter of course. It is somewhat ironic that, as a nation, we have raised an entire generation (and are now starting to raise a second one) that doesn't know how to crap - and somtimes even pee - in the woods...unless there's someplace "developed" to sit down!
When I got involved in building and maintaining shelters (and privies) in Pa. back in the mid-80's, we had to conform to Pa.'s state sanitary regulations (these vary from state to state, and I believe that some states even have different regulations from county to county). Unfortunately, Pa.'s regulations are written only from the standpoint of "front-country" development, which assumes the presence of roads, electricity, central heat, and running water. While there are exceptions written into the regs, NO regs are written to specifically address sanitation in a "permanent backcountry" setting, and so placing - and MAINTAINING - backcountry sanitation is difficult.
And, yes, Bake Oven Knob Shelter is under my jurisdiction as BMECC's Shelters Chairman - and has been an embarrassment for years. But, there seems to be no workable solution to this "problem-site", and there are other problem sites elsewhere, I'm sure. Building a privy is the EASY part - running the darn thing is the part that drives folks away!!! :eek:
Sierra Echo
02-13-2011, 19:58
All the privys in GA are wheel chair accessible!
shelterbuilder
02-13-2011, 20:09
All the privys in GA are wheel chair accessible!
EVERYTHING that gets built now has to be accessible - even if the site itself is not. Go figure....
Note that many (most?) of the shelters without privies do have a pretty good sized garden type shovel, which makes it a lot easier to go out and dig a hole.
Pedaling Fool
02-13-2011, 21:09
Now are there always privy's at all the shelters on the AT? Especially in NC and VA? Thanks in advance.
Short answer: No.
A little more specific: I believe about 1/2 the shelters on the AT through GSMNP do not have privies. And the vast majority, if not all, shelters from Spivey Gap, NC to Damascus do not have privies. This is the section maintained by the Tennessee Eastman Hiking & Canoeing Club (TEHCC). Here's their website w/map of shelters. http://www.tehcc.org/hiking/appalachian-trail-menu
I'm sure there are a few others, but anything more specific I'll have to go dig out my guidebook.
Blissful
02-13-2011, 21:11
What does the wife do during the day on her hike without a privy? Makes it hard too if you all want a nice campsite somewhere, having to be at a shelter all the time which cuts out lots of opportunities and fun times. Besides many privys are absolutely gross, stink, etc
I'd encourage her to try one night without a privy and see what happens... :)
Pedaling Fool
02-13-2011, 21:16
What does the wife do during the day on her hike without a privy? Makes it hard too if you all want a nice campsite somewhere, having to be at a shelter all the time which cuts out lots of opportunities and fun times. Besides many privys are absolutely gross, stink, etc
I'd encourage her to try one night without a privy and see what happens... :)
Lot of truth to that; I don't use privies any longer. Just look at them seats....:(
sheepdog
02-13-2011, 21:20
A Privy is a good place to get bit on the butt by a spider.
A Privy is a good place to get bit on the butt by a spider.
I've heard about those. We call em "barking spiders" down south.
Cookerhiker
02-13-2011, 22:48
I know you were more concerned about NC, TN, and Southern VA but FYI, the Outerbridge Shelter in PA does not have one (last I knew) nor do some of the shelters in Harriman Park, NY - Fingerboard, Brien, not sure about West Mountain.
swjohnsey
02-13-2011, 23:02
Privys are just nasty. Bears don't us 'em and neither do I.
A.T. Hiker
02-13-2011, 23:22
I would rather use a log than a privy just make sure that you cover your mess.
LONG ANSWER TO A SHORT QUESTION:
While the ATC and NPS are trying to establish a certain amount of consistency in this matter, you need to understand that, for decades, backcountry sanitation was not in the forefront of everyone's minds - especially those who built the first - and even the second - generations of shelters along the AT. Indeed, for many years, it was simply assumed that folks in the backcountry just KNEW how to $h!t in the woods, and would go about doing this as a matter of course. It is somewhat ironic that, as a nation, we have raised an entire generation (and are now starting to raise a second one) that doesn't know how to crap - and somtimes even pee - in the woods...unless there's someplace "developed" to sit down!
When I got involved in building and maintaining shelters (and privies) in Pa. back in the mid-80's, we had to conform to Pa.'s state sanitary regulations (these vary from state to state, and I believe that some states even have different regulations from county to county). Unfortunately, Pa.'s regulations are written only from the standpoint of "front-country" development, which assumes the presence of roads, electricity, central heat, and running water. While there are exceptions written into the regs, NO regs are written to specifically address sanitation in a "permanent backcountry" setting, and so placing - and MAINTAINING - backcountry sanitation is difficult.
And, yes, Bake Oven Knob Shelter is under my jurisdiction as BMECC's Shelters Chairman - and has been an embarrassment for years. But, there seems to be no workable solution to this "problem-site", and there are other problem sites elsewhere, I'm sure. Building a privy is the EASY part - running the darn thing is the part that drives folks away!!! :eek:
Definately have alot of respect for your work. Wasn't downing the Bake Oven shelter, it is still effective at keeping you dry, and also has one of the closest water sources around. Which to me is more valuble than a privy anyway. Especially after you've walked 400 steps down and up to get water at peter's mtn. I am actually all for the traditional camping practice of finding a tree to lean against. Privys attract bugs and pests, and IMO are generally much less appealing to me than a log or boulder.
I like the moldering privies down south of the GSMNP. They work well end don't stink. From the GSMNP at least up to Damacus (as far as I have section hiked) is a crap shoot (pun intended). If there is a privy, it stinks and I would rather do my business elsewhere. Took my 12 year old daugher last year she seem to figure out how to do her business without my help! Just stay away from the trail and shelters please. Actually found on guy doing "on" the trail two years ago!
Trailweaver
02-14-2011, 02:19
Really - how hard is it to squat???!!! Privies are nasty and smell awful. If I do have to use one (and I do if they're there), I feel nauseated for a while after I've been and don't feel like I can get my hands clean enough to actually touch my food. On the other hand, I've seen what dumb people leave behind in some of the best campsites where there aren't privies.
fredmugs
02-14-2011, 08:16
Planning on going thru GSMNP in May - looks like every shelter has a privy. I haven't used one yet in my 1,800+ miles but then again I only take a dump every 3 or 4 days and it normally sneaks up on me.
All Maine shelters have privies, almost all are clean and largely odor free, though conditions depend a bit on the diligence of the volunteer maintainers.
The worst sanitary conditions on the AT are shelters and camping areas without privies.
shelterbuilder
02-14-2011, 18:11
I like the moldering privies down south of the GSMNP. They work well end don't stink....
I've been impressed by some of the moldering privies that I've seen and read about - both in terms of function and lack of odors (for the most part). However, unless you use the NPS's ability to claim "Federal Supremacy" over existing state regulations ON NPS LAND, they cannot be built LEGALLY in Pa. (off-topic a bit - sorry), since they fit the state's definition of a failed treatment system - ie, a system that allows untreated waste to come into contact with the ground! (I kid you not.) Bake Oven Knob and Outerbridge are "grandfathered out" of the regs, since they were built before the regs came into existence - no privies are mandated...but in the Springtime, after the snow melts, there sure are a lot of little papered piles dotting the landscape! :eek:
Wolverine
02-14-2011, 18:40
I only take a dump every 3 or 4 days and it normally sneaks up on me.
During my hike, I dubbed this phenomenon the "Countdown Dump" -- when you're walking along, minding your own business, and then suddenly, out of nowhere, your body's Mission Control goes, "TEN! NINE! EIGHT! SEVEN! ... " and you have to quickly shuffle off the Trail and find a suitable location, stat.
This is especially fun when, say, you're climbing up out of Sawyer Notch in a downpour and have to take care of business on a 45-degree slope with slippery footing....
I don't know about NC, but I am struggling to remember a shelter in VA that doesn't have a Privy. I took a quick look at the AT Guide and didn't see any listed there either, but I could have missed one. Be warned that there are several in Southern VA that have no walls (I was told this was because of the accessibility issue, but don't know that for a fact). There are also several that I wouldn't go into without a HAZMAT suit.
slowandlow
02-15-2011, 11:24
A Privy is a good place to get bit on the butt by a spider.
They can also be a good place to get bit on the butt by a snake.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/3/1/0/7/p5160137_thumb.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=45350&c=550)
mcskinney
02-15-2011, 13:37
During my hike, I dubbed this phenomenon the "Countdown Dump" -- when you're walking along, minding your own business, and then suddenly, out of nowhere, your body's Mission Control goes, "TEN! NINE! EIGHT! SEVEN! ... " and you have to quickly shuffle off the Trail and find a suitable location, stat.
This is especially fun when, say, you're climbing up out of Sawyer Notch in a downpour and have to take care of business on a 45-degree slope with slippery footing....
I took an emergency crap on top of 14,270 ft Greys Peak in Colorado once. Built it it's own little rock cairn.
Jim Adams
02-16-2011, 00:12
use a small piece of TP to wipe under the rim prior to sitting down....black widow syders love privies and about 85 % of black widow bites are on men's scrotums from privy use.
BTW, when I thru hiked in 1990 there were only about 8 privies on the entire trail and most of them were "full".
geek
fredmugs
02-16-2011, 10:13
I took an emergency crap on top of 14,270 ft Greys Peak in Colorado once. Built it it's own little rock cairn.
I did the same thing climbing Pawnee Pass in CO. :)
We called it a shallow grave.
Hello all,
I have enjoyed short solo hikes (15-20 miles) for ever. My wife and 6 year old have enjoyed them once, for that is all they have ever hiked overnight. I took them to Grayson Highlands and we camped near Thomas Knob shelter beacause I knew of the nearby privy, which my wife requires. Most of my hikes have not been on the AT. Now are there always privy's at all the shelters on the AT? Especially in NC and VA? Thanks in advance.
No. All shelters don't have privies. The question isn't dumb. But the practice of some maintaining clubs of building campsites and shelters that concentrate human use, without building privies to concentrate human wastes is dumb.
shelterbuilder
02-16-2011, 18:00
...when I thru hiked in 1990 there were only about 8 privies on the entire trail and most of them were "full".
geek
For some strange, inexplicable reason, It's really, really tough to get people excited about helping to empty out a privy! :eek::D
I just don't get it....
For some strange, inexplicable reason, It's really, really tough to get people excited about helping to empty out a privy! :eek::D
I just don't get it....
It's not a pleasant task, for sure. But maintainers do it routinely. Over the years I've helped move a half dozen privies. As overseer of 60 miles of the trail in Maine I've reminded others of the need to move or rehabilitate privies in Maine.
Most have involved digging a new hole and moving the privy to that new hole, and using the excavated dirt to cover the old wastes. Really not a hard, or dirty, task.
Most new privies in Maine are above ground "mouldering" privies. Now new holes aren't needed. The box containing wastes is slipped out and a new box inserted -- or at least something like that. I haven't been involved of late.
Mouldering privies seem to be less likely to pollute ground water or do other harm to the mountain environment, but I'll leave it to those with more experience to tell us for sure.
Graywolf
02-17-2011, 03:51
Not another Crappy thread...:D:eek::sun