I thought we were supposed to be Mountain Men n Women! [Archive]

Seraphim

01-05-2005, 11:27

This goes for everyone who is bitching about pointless things on this site... If you think that there are too many problems on the trail, don't hike. Band together with the rest of the 'purists' and dream about buying the AT and making your own rules... Pay s'more money for sleeping on US soil and fight to make it all national park, so we can fill out s'more forms... make more reservations, get more permits...

"The Appalachian Trail is open for all to enjoy. No fees, memberships, or permits are required for walking on the Trail, although overnight permits are required in some areas..."--AMC

If it bothers you as much as it seems to, make an effort to change it, and then you can have the AT, however you want it. Put walls up around it so the bad can't come in, have guards at road crossings.. Then it'll be safe. If you're just pissing and moaning, shut up! Then we can continue having the beautiful freedom that is the AT, and let it be owned by everyone instead of a 'someone'. Would you rather it be the other way around? Until the trail starts getting trashed physically, or literally overrun by party animals that are drunk nonstop, I think I'll be alright. On all of my hikes on the AT, I've had nights incredibly peaceful, and days horrendously terrible, results of people, shelters, weather and dogs. But I keep going, because it makes me feel better to be OUT THERE. I know everyone has a complaint about the AT, but it is a wilderness retreat! There are discomforts, and sadly, animals and people are included in most hikers' lists. Dogs are allowed almost everywhere, are required to be leashed 40 percent of the trail, and should be trained. But that's all that's required of the owner BY LAW. Someone may do something that offends you; you could either ask them to be more considerate, or call the police at the next road and turn them in... Face it, the AT is not yours, yours, or YOURS. It's ours. Me, the so-called party girl and all you other hikers out there. This AT that everyone knows, loves and, apparently, harbours hatred for until it's winter- do you hate it because it isn't perfect, because hikers aren't perfect, because humans aren't perfect?! You can have a wonderfully relaxing time in sunny Thailand instead for $200 all-inclusive... wait, no... Global warming tsunami.... "Day After Tomorrow", anyone?... Stop complaining about this trail and cherish it. Someday it may be someones.

The Solemates

01-05-2005, 11:32

I have never complained about the AT. I like it the way it is. Its people like you who like to stir up trouble is who I complain about.

Bloodroot

01-05-2005, 11:42

Where did this come from? Someone had a bad day?:(

Lone Wolf

01-05-2005, 11:52

Too much dope makes for pointless posts. :D

Seraphim

01-05-2005, 12:35

I do not know how or why, after being slandered on another thread, it ruined my respect for these forums. A bunch of people bitching about things they'll never change, things they've probably done... Good thing there are intellegent people on here, otherwise there wouldn't be anything positive written about hiking. Rereading my previous post, it does sound a bit hostile, but it wasn't meant that way.. I'm just sick of everyone complaining- about the same things over and over... And jumping on my back everytime I say something on a thread! I am sorry if I offended anyone, on my hike or on this site, but I never mean any harm to anyone and I speak my opinion when provoked to do so. All I'm trying to say is go out and hike instead of sitting here, bitching about nonsense!

L Wolf: Get off my back.
Bloodroot: It has been a bad day, a terrible day, in fact. methinks I'm going to bed now...
Solemates: See above.

I MISS THE TRAIL!

Lone Wolf

01-05-2005, 12:38

Ain't on your back sweetie. :) You're obsessed with weed.

Alligator

01-05-2005, 12:49

I was bitchin' about pointed things today:jump.

Bolo

01-05-2005, 13:10

Good thing there are intellegent people on here,.....
I like to b**ch about people who don't use spellcheck.
Ho, Hum, one more to add to my 'ignore list.'

Butch Cassidy

01-05-2005, 14:15

Whats everyone doing on here in the middle of the day? You guys should be working and paying taxes to pay for my trail :-? Dave

Lilred

01-05-2005, 19:14

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

boy, I do love Whiteblaze.
Seraphim, do you realize that you are pissing and moaning about people pissing and moaning. I believe that's the pot calling the kettle black.

Now that's pointless.....

Rain Man

01-05-2005, 23:56

Seraphim, do you realize that you are pissing and moaning about people pissing and moaning. I believe that's the pot calling the kettle black......

Yeah, but Mary, at least I learned that global warming causes tsunamis!
:sun
Rain Man

.

TDale

01-06-2005, 00:10

Y'know, everyone deserves a good rant enery now and then. Especially when the winter blues set in.

Seraphim

01-08-2005, 15:40

A quote from Rain Man, who woulda thought? Fits right into this thread, just in time for what I've been wanting to say... In response... No, I do not spellcheck (is that one or two words?). How DID that tsunami happen? Do ya'll have to take everything everyone says literally and belittle critically? Steve Hiker is right... just a buncha people ragging. And to all, I do not think the post was pointless. I joined this site to keep in contact with hikers after my thru, so as not to lose my sanity. But alas, that is not the fruit of my efforts, this is. This post, this thread, is my complaint to all the complainers, my hypocrisy in hyperbole: survival of the fittest, on or off trail. I thought we were ALL mountain men and women.

Frosty

01-08-2005, 17:11

SGT Rock

01-08-2005, 17:36

I have been married for a while too, so it sounded similar to things I have heard and I didn't even recognize the oddity of it until someone else pointed it out. :confused:

Mountain Men and Women also have thick skin when people talk about them too don't they? :D

Lone Wolf

01-08-2005, 17:45

Hiking on the AT makes one a "mountain man" or "mountain woman"? Pretty unfreakin likely. :rolleyes:

Chip

01-08-2005, 17:47

:) Share the love and be at peace and then pass it on.

SGT Rock

01-08-2005, 17:47

Right.

Hog slaughters, choping wood, working from sun up to sun down, brewing your own, making your own bread, building just about everything with your own hands, having 10 children, etc. Seems like that is what makes a mountain persun (pc version of person).

Seraphim

01-08-2005, 17:47

I said I was being a hypocrite. I said what I wanted to say. Also, I said I'm done complaining, and I am done having arguments on this damned machine. I hope ya'll can comprehend the difference between backing out and backing down. I've definitely the winter bleus.

SGT Rock

01-08-2005, 17:51

go hiking :D When I am in Tennessee just let me know where and when. The trail is a lot easier to relate to on than any web board.

Seraphim

01-08-2005, 18:45

SGT, I have visited your little town o' Maryville, and find it to be quite charming. I loved it, in fact. A friend of mine lived there, and I just visited two years ago. Wish I were there NOW. But I'll be back. And I will let you know.

And as for this: "Hog slaughters, choping wood, working from sun up to sun down, brewing your own, making your own bread, building just about everything with your own hands, having 10 children, etc. Seems like that is what makes a mountain persun (pc version of person)."

This is what I did for six months in Damascus, before I hiked. Sans 10 children. But I did have a pain in the ass, complain all day 'spouse' that ordered me around like a maid. I was happy, because I was in the mountains, living off my land.;) But then I wanted to be IN the mountains... So off I went, leaving ax, animals and ass behind.

SGT Rock

01-08-2005, 19:04

Ramble~On

01-09-2005, 07:02

I'd like to complain that I don't have anything to complain about.

Methinks it is getting light outside and I shall go into yonder Smokies for a walk
maybe when I come back I'll have thought of something to complain about.

:banana

ffstenger

01-09-2005, 09:06

Seraphim age 19? .... A little age makes you see things a little differently.
'nuff said. Showme

Lone Wolf

01-09-2005, 09:12

Hey sera, did you live off the land in Damascus, Syria? You certainly didn't do it in Damascus, Va.

weary

01-09-2005, 09:51

Seraphim age 19? .... A little age makes you see things a little differently.
A bright and potentially wise 19, who I hope has the wisdom to get an education.

Weary

Frosty

01-09-2005, 11:32

Hiking on the AT makes one a "mountain man" or "mountain woman"? Pretty unfreakin likely. :rolleyes:You sure? I was planning on resupplying by trading beaver pelts at stores along the way.

rocket04

01-09-2005, 14:54

A bright and potentially wise 19, who I hope has the wisdom to get an education.

Weary I hope you that by "education" you don't mean going to school. Because I'd say that's way overrated...

I've seen 19 year-olds that are considerably wiser in many ways than 50 year-olds, so I've never bought the age thing. But sorry, off topic, I know.

About the mountain men thing. Hiking the AT doesn't make you one in my opinion. There, I'm now on topic!

Noggin

01-09-2005, 16:49

About the mountain men thing. Hiking the AT doesn't make you one in my opinion. There, I'm now on topic!
Whats the difference between a AT hiker and a mountain man r woman?

Lone Wolf

01-09-2005, 16:53

Life ain't tough for an AT hiker. Especially nowadays.

weary

01-09-2005, 17:55

I hope you that by "education" you don't mean going to school. Because I'd say that's way overrated...
I've seen 19 year-olds that are considerably wiser in many ways than 50 year-olds, so I've never bought the age thing. But sorry, off topic, I know.
About the mountain men thing. Hiking the AT doesn't make you one in my opinion. There, I'm now on topic!
I do mean school. Education opens up opportunities that most people eventually wish they had had.

Being wise or unwise has little to do with it -- other than, perhaps, that the wise tend to realize the value of education before it is too late to achieve it without formidable difficulties.

Weary

rocket04

01-09-2005, 19:07

Whats the difference between a AT hiker and a mountain man r woman? Many AT hikers are in the mountains in passing and not in permanence. As is my case, for example. There's nothing about Ottawa that says "mountain".

rocket04

01-09-2005, 19:12

I do mean school. Education opens up opportunities that most people eventually wish they had had.

Being wise or unwise has little to do with it -- other than, perhaps, that the wise tend to realize the value of education before it is too late to achieve it without formidable difficulties.

Weary I don't know, schools don't teach much in the way of skills. Also, I'd say they forget to teach the most important things. And what they teach really shouldn't require 12+ years, it's a waste of time. I'd venture to say that there's much more value in schooling later, when you actually know what you want to do and can focus your efforts in that area. Agreed on the wisdom part.

weary

01-09-2005, 21:55

I don't know, schools don't teach much in the way of skills. Also, I'd say they forget to teach the most important things. And what they teach really shouldn't require 12+ years, it's a waste of time. I'd venture to say that there's much more value in schooling later, when you actually know what you want to do and can focus your efforts in that area. Agreed on the wisdom part.
Maybe. I bounced around for 12 years after high school before finally getting a college degree. Somehow I think the years after that were more useful to both me and society than the years before. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a diehard college type. I barely made it through. I used to lament that no genuine bright person could ever graduate from college -- certainly not the 50's version of the University of illinois.

But it was a lot of fun, and incredibly useful, at least, once I got that piece of paper saying I was a journalist. YMMV.

rocket04

01-10-2005, 10:39

But it was a lot of fun, and incredibly useful, at least, once I got that piece of paper saying I was a journalist. YMMV. I'll agree that often the piece of paper and not the actual material taught can be incredibly useful. And school was indeed a lot of fun in many ways.

Skyline

01-10-2005, 11:21

Much of what passes for formal education is unnecessary. Much of what is necessary never gets through during formal education, but those going through the process get passed anyway.

If there weren't so many federal and state mandates--and so many pushy teachers' unions protecting their members' jobs--we would probably have a better education system. How many people use algebra, trigonometry, English literature, or foreign languages in their real lives after school? Yet, they are required to graduate. How many people graduate, but cannot read, write, or do basic arithmetic?

A radical re-thinking is necessary to make sure everyone who passes EXCELS at the basics, and has access to the other subjects--as electives.

We give the equivalent of an 11th grade spelling test to everyone who applies for a job at my company. Only 55% can pass it, despite everyone having at least a high school diploma and many having college degrees or at least some college. They do even worse on a section that requires composing a 250-word statement. But, hey, they sat through trigonometry and Latin classes--and were given grades worthy to receive a diploma.

Hike your own hike. Live your own life. If what passes for the formal educational experience in your culture doesn't fulfill your needs, find some other way(s) to learn a skill, create a career. It can be done.

minnesotasmith

01-10-2005, 12:01

"Share the love and be at peace and then pass it on"

Old joke: "The clinic called about your test. It was positive. You need to stop sharing the love." :eek: :( :datz ;)

art to linda

01-10-2005, 12:29

Like most things in life, we'll get out of an "Education" what we want at the time.... to many use it strictly for the degree/diploma & social contacts rather then learning. The so called useless subjects are there to strech and develope the brain so that it can look at things in new ways. This in turn gives us the ability to solve a problem by restating it & applying unusual options instead of giving up. The best teacher in the world can not educate someone who just wants to pass, and the worst can provide a learning experiance in life. There are many advantages to advanced formal education but the biggest one is all the knowledge in so many fields concentrated around you during that time. The choice is yours as to how you use this advantage (or waste it), but a piece of paper at the end of a term doesn't mean you have learned anything. Only you can determine that.

Alligator

01-10-2005, 13:04

...
The so called useless subjects are there to strech and develope the brain so that it can look at things in new ways. This in turn gives us the ability to solve a problem by restating it & applying unusual options instead of giving up.
...
Excellent point.

rocket04

01-10-2005, 14:18

The so called useless subjects are there to strech and develope the brain so that it can look at things in new ways. Agreed, and that's what I tell people when they ask "what the hell is math good for?" among other things. But try to give that explanation to a 10 year-old... The entire time I was in school, there was never any attempt to make the subject of math interesting or show practical applications that could appeal to kids. Hell, one of the easiest way to tell kids that math is fun is to show them how it's applied in computer/video games. But few ever take that approach. The material is dry, so no wonder kids aren't interested.

White Oak

01-10-2005, 14:52

What's the most common question asked by people who didn't go to college?
Do you want fries with that?

Mags

01-10-2005, 15:46

What's the most common question asked by people who didn't go to college?
Do you want fries with that?

Come on now. No need to sterotype like that. May careers out there do not neccessarily require a college degree. Many of the trades (plumber, carpenter, etc. etc.) do not requite a college degree. My youngest brother is a paramedic and does not have a college degree. I'd hate for him to save my life if he had an MFA. :) (He is working on his BSN though..being an RN does requiite a college degree except for a very few certificate programs still around).
I work in the computer field; many people do not have college degrees (inlcuding the owner of my company).

What is needed is some sort of education. Be it through experience (many self-taught computer geeks), a trade school and/or apprenticeship (plumber, carpenter, mechanic, etc.), an intense certificate program (like my brother) or indeed a college degree (chemist, teacher, what-have-you).

But, try not to insult a whole bunch of people..'eh?

bearbait2k4

01-10-2005, 16:44

It's too bad that an education is no longer looked at as a learning experience anymore, but instead a career prerequisite.

Mags

01-10-2005, 17:12

It's too bad that an education is no longer looked at as a learning experience anymore, but instead a career prerequisite.

Education IS a career prequesitie. It is also a learning experience for those who choose.

You can't get a job without some form of education (be it formal, informal, college, high school, etc.) . To say otherwise is foolish.

To look at education as strictly just for career pre-reqs is equally foolish.

Wise people use an education for both career goals and self actualization. Again, be it formal or informal education. Learning for the sake of learning is noble. Learning for the sake of putting food on your table also has its charms. :)

Jack Tarlin

01-10-2005, 17:27

Mark Twain had several comments on this: In one attributed, but never proven remark, he said "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." On annother occasion, he said "Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."

Some of the most brilliant folks I've ever encountered never went to college. And on the other hand, I encounter people on a daily basis who attended (or ARE attending) very fine institutions, and they're as ill-read, ill-informed, and have about as much common sense as a gaggle of illiterate peasants.

So it doesn't pay to generalize.

In my own case, I've now spent more time on the A.T. than I spent studying in college, and there's no question which was the more productive use of my time, and no question of where I learned more.

Oh, and the hiking was cheaper, too.

White Oak

01-10-2005, 17:34

Didn't mean to insult anyone, but it's a fact that without a B.A. or B.S., your career opportunities are severely restricted. No matter how bright you are.

Besides that, going to college does something for you that cannot be measured in material values at all. Studying the liberal arts especially, broadens your mind and your way of thinking. It gives you perspectives on life and humanity that you never had, and really opens you up intellectually and mentally. It teaches you how to reason in a far more effective and powerful manner. It changes you forever.

Some of my fondest memories are of sitting in a Latin class on a sun drenched early afternoon, reading the poetry of Ovid. No cares to get in the way, no boss or bills, just wide open room to explore the world and the mind of man.

Also, can you think of a more enjoyable place to spend 4 years than a university campus? Tons of hot hot chicks (you will never, ever find the number of mindbending girls anywhere else that you find on campus), and endless opportunities to date, screw like a rabbit and drink like a fish.

Mags

01-10-2005, 17:50

Didn't mean to insult anyone, but it's a fact that without a B.A. or B.S., your career opportunities are severely restricted. No matter how bright you are.

.

That is not a fact.

Again that is biased against people who do not go a career path that rqeuires a college degree. I''d like you to fix my plumbing with a fine arts degree. :) Some people want to be a plumber, carpenter, owner of an ISP, etc. They are quite happy with it. And did not need a college degree to attain their goal.

There are different types of education out there. Depending what you want out of life the less formal education (you don;t have to pay someone to read Ovid for example) may be your ticket.

As with hiking, YMMV.

PS.
"Some of my fondest memories are of sitting in a Latin class on a sun drenched early afternoon, reading the poetry of Ovid. No cares to get in the way, no boss or bills, just wide open room to explore the world and the mind of man."

Alas..that is not the reality of college for everyone. Many times you have to work a part (or even a full time) job when going to school. Not everyone had that life in leisure in college. That type of college life is not open to many 1st generation college students. College life should be a leisurely pursuit of Ovid, Latin and drinking yourself silly. However, that is not the reality for those who must work their through school.

RITBlake

01-10-2005, 17:51

"It were as well to be educated in the shadow of a mountain as in more classical shades. Some will remember, no doubt, not only that they went to the college, but that they went to the mountain." - Thoreau

A-Train

01-10-2005, 18:51

It's hard to measure these type of things, but I definately learned more about myself during my thru-hike than I have in 3 years at college. After getting together with friends from my thru-hike this weekend I was reminded that I know the folks I met on the trail better than friends from school. In ten years I'll still be friends with more people from the trail than college, I can speculate, if that says anything.

A lot of my peers, friends and other students I see (I was an RA afterall) are wasting tremendous amounts of time and their parents money. I think college, grad school and higher education are a great thing IF you are there for the right reasons, not just to get a degree because that is what society says you should be doing from age 18-22.

Conversely, I've never seen someone my age, or any age wasting time hiking the trail, or pursuing other adventures.

Though I agree with Mags that you don't need to have a college degree to "make it" in the world, the system is getting to the point where it is almost necessary to have that piece of paper. Today getting a college degree is becoming esential, like having a high school degree was 10 or 20 years ago.

The Old Fhart

01-10-2005, 19:34

White Oak-"Also, can you think of a more enjoyable place to spend 4 years than a university campus? Tons of hot hot chicks"I just thought I'd good naturedly point out that from your comments you seem to be in the minority in the general population, i.e., male. What do they ("chicks") go to college for? :)

But that isn't as bad as Jack's comment: "...and have about as much common sense as a gaggle of illiterate peasants." As an illiterite pezsant, I resent that, we due have common cents. :)

WalkinHome

01-10-2005, 20:00

And then there is the college of hard knocks - the military - which can be quite an education for any young woman or man. HUAH!

SGT Rock

01-10-2005, 20:07

Well I will say this, I didn't need a college degree to do my job, and I am a lot smarter and know how to do my job a lot better than a lot of the college graduates I work with, but they get paid better than me. Who is smarter for that? It is the system for the most of us that a diploma can open doors to better paying jobs. That is why I am getting one for my job after the Army. If I have to learn some bull****, then I get through it just like any other crappy detail or class I have had to do in life.

bearbait2k4

01-10-2005, 20:20

Mags, I think the point that a lot of us are making is that MANY professional-level careers require some formal education, and that you are limiting your options by not getting a formal education after high school. I'm sorry to say it, but this is fact. By saying that you can be a plumber or carpenter without a college degree, you aren't exactly proving this to be incorrect.

You could also put a more positive spin on it and say that you are opening a lot of doors by getting a 4 year degree, but it basically means the same thing.

I, however, don't believe that college is for everyone. I don't believe that every single person that graduates from high school should be pushed down this path. The importance of the right education for the individual should be pin-pointed and discussed, moreso than it is now, at an early age. There should be more emphasis put on specialized certificates, technical schools, and even apprenticeship-type learning. When I was in highschool, this wasn't the case. You were pushed down 2 major paths: college, and military. All that creates is a surplus of people going off to college that will eventually drop out, while taking up spaces and wasting the time of those who actually want to be there, and that want to learn. College is now filled with a lot of people who are going because they were told they need to go in order to get a better career. Of course you can use your education to benefit your career. duh. But, the satisfaction of an education should be your reason for continuing your education. It should be a learning experience, and the benefits to future careers should be viewed as simply a perk.

Of course, I, too, also learned more in the 2 long distance hikes than I've learned in college. So, to each his/her own.

steve hiker

01-10-2005, 20:20

White Oak seems like one of those privileged liberal "elitists" that the blue-collar, workingclass Republicans are bashing all the time. :rolleyes:

steve hiker

01-10-2005, 20:24

I just thought I'd good naturedly point out that from your comments you seem to be in the minority in the general population, i.e., male. What do they ("chicks") go to college for? :)
Well, not for other chicks (not most of them, anyway). one letter over ... I'll have a consonant, please. :D

Frosty

01-10-2005, 20:24

Well I will say this, I didn't need a college degree to do my job, and I am a lot smarter and know how to do my job a lot better than a lot of the college graduates I work with, but they get paid better than me. Who is smarter for that? This is the basic reason I went back to school. I was working as a technician at International Harvester. There were two basic differences differences between technicians and engineers:
1) Engineers had to wear ties and technicians were allowed to.
2) Engineers made about 50% more than technicians.

In the engine lab where I worked, there wasn't much use for a degree. No real "engineering" was done. One needed a good mechanical aptitude and a "feel" for engines. Some technicians were better at it thatn some engineers. Didn't matter. The pay scales were set.

I complained along with some for a two years, then got smart. I went back and finished my degree.

It wasn't a case of learning more or becoming smarter. It was a case of adapting to life the way it was, not the way I wanted it to be. I'm still not sure if I sold out or if I was very clever, and I suppose it doesn't matter now that I'm a mountain man (to get back on topic).

Skyline

01-10-2005, 20:42

I am certain that you can be successful in some fields, but not all fields, without having gone to college or even having graduated from high school. But to do so you need to be ambitious, clever, and a hard worker to prove yourself to decision makers.

The easier route IMO is self-employment. Few if any people during your lifetime as an owner of your own business will ask or even care what your level of formal education is. They only want to know what you can do for them, and expect you to then perform. References and reputation go much further than any diploma.

Working for yourself or for someone else you do need to know how to write well, read and comprehend well, spell accurately, do basic arithmetic well, perhaps keep a set of ledgers, and today in many fields you need to know basic computer skills. If you can get through enough government schooling, home schooling, or remedial education to do these things--and you have a personality and work ethic that allows you to get along well with others--you can eventually sing, "I did it my way."

rocket04

01-10-2005, 21:28

I am certain that you can be successful in some fields, but not all fields, without having gone to college or even having graduated from high school. Yeah, I agree. In some fields, universities provide an infrastructure that is needed and that cannot be afforded by most individuals. I have in mind especially the sciences. I mean, supercomputers don't exactly go for peanuts these days...

SGT Rock

01-10-2005, 21:32

How do we set up a degree program in long distance hiking, and then who would hire anyone with that degree?

Mags

01-10-2005, 21:40

.

I, however, don't believe that college is for everyone. I don't believe that every single person that graduates from high school should be pushed down this path. The importance of the right education for the individual should be pin-pointed and discussed, moreso than it is now, at an early age. There should be more emphasis put on specialized certificates, technical schools, and even apprenticeship-type learning.
Isn't that what I said? :)

That college education is not the only type of education. (I have a college education BTW). My brother, if you recall, saves lifes with his paramedic license. And a master level plumber makes more money than many people on this list. Myself included!

All I'm saying is that don't equate lack of a COLLEGE education to lack of education and being regulated to "Do you want fries with that?". Insulting to the many intelligent, hardworking people who do something outside the mainly white, middle class norm. And my theoretical, non-"professiona"l plumber probably makes more money in Boulder because many people in this town lack the skill set! (My landlord just got charge $800 for a mere half days work!)

And, by "professional" you mean white collar I presume? Talk about bias!

Not everyone thinks the white collar career is the brass ring boys.

bearbait2k4

01-11-2005, 00:35

You shouldn't presume, Mags. I speak of a profession that you chose for your career path, ergo a professional career.

This was said to distinguish between a career, and simply a job.

Don't put words in my mouth, and don't assume what I'm speaking of. If you're curious or don't understand, just ask.

saimyoji

01-11-2005, 00:42

How do we set up a degree program in long distance hiking, and then who would hire anyone with that degree?
Actually I've seen threads/journals (don't remember any specifics) from several people using their hikes as a means to a doctorate. I'm guessing their theses were not rooted in pure science. :) I've also seen people talking about getting college credit for hikes. Many schools allow you to 'customize' your degree program, pending approval. If you included the right elements, no reason why you couldn't earn your masters degree on the trail.:-?

Go for it! Blaze a new path: a whole generation of M. ATs!

Mags

01-11-2005, 13:15

This was said to distinguish between a career, and simply a job.
.

Many of us don't quite feel in our gut the difference between a career and a job. I suspect it has do with upbringing and background. I apologize for being a bit strident, but seems many people on this thread come from a background where it is assumed most people have college degreees and that it equate that with sucess. Knowing people who are educated, but not through college, find this a dangerous assumption.

Also, to be curious, and to ask a question, is a paramedic not having professional career? Or is it just a job? What about firemen? Sheetmetal workers? Again, I am curious and asking a question. Does college education= career? A trade school/apprenticeship/certificate = non-professional job?

Mags

01-11-2005, 13:24

AMany schools allow you to 'customize' your degree program, pending approval. If you included the right elements, no reason why you couldn't earn your masters degree on the trail.:-?

Go for it! Blaze a new path: a whole generation of M. ATs!

Not QUITE the same thing..but a local Buddhist college (seriously!) offers an MA in Evironmenal Leadership:
http://www.naropa.edu/envma/index.html

Sure the college could give you credit for thru-hiking.

Naropa is the local "earthy-crunchy" college. Allen Ginsburg was associated with it for a bit. Some programs are quite good..some are way out there to say the least. Some programs are accredited..some will get you a position at the local organic food store.

http://www.naropa.edu/inside.html

bearbait2k4

01-11-2005, 14:16

All of those listed are careers. What I meant, originally, by putting that was to keep some smart ass from naming off all high-school after school jobs to show that you don't need some kind of education for quite a few jobs (i.e. McDonalds, working at the mall, etc.). That's all I meant by that.

Skyline

01-11-2005, 15:22

Many of us don't quite feel in our gut the difference between a career and a job. I suspect it has do with upbringing and background. I apologize for being a bit strident, but seems many people on this thread come from a background where it is assumed most people have college degreees and that it equate that with sucess. Knowing people who are educated, but not through college, find this a dangerous assumption.

Also, to be curious, and to ask a question, is a paramedic not having professional career? Or is it just a job? What about firemen? Sheetmetal workers? Again, I am curious and asking a question. Does college education= career? A trade school/apprenticeship/certificate = non-professional job?

Mags,

There are some people (and it's obvious that you're not one) with a bunch of letters after their names who feel if you go to work in a uniform that has your name embroidered on it that you are somehow beneath them. I respectfully disagree. Er, I disagree with their lack of respect. Or maybe I should just disrespect their degree. Um, you know what I'm sayin'.

Tater

01-11-2005, 16:11

Also, to be curious, and to ask a question, is a paramedic not having professional career?
A paramedic who goes to college has a shot at getting into medical school and becoming a doctor. A paramedic who doesn't go to college will never be a doctor. College opens doors of opportunity.

Mags

01-11-2005, 16:51

A paramedic who goes to college has a shot at getting into medical school and becoming a doctor. A paramedic who doesn't go to college will never be a doctor. College opens doors of opportunity.

So a paramedic is not a career? I am not quite sure of your answer to my question.

Did I ask the question of "Does college provide options that are normally not available with just a cerificate?"

No I did not. I already know the answer. The answer is of course, yes. But that is not what I am saying. No one is arguing that college can't provide more options.

What I am arguing is that college is not the end all and be all of formal education for some people.

Remember, not everyone wants to spend 8 yrs of college + X yrs of Internship/residency to be a doctor. I wish you good luck. It is a noble field where you will have many chances to do good for others.

Having said that "Is a paramedic(or any other non-college educated field) not a career or is it merely a job?"

I know my answer.

Footslogger

01-11-2005, 17:10

What was the question ?? Duh ...guess I was asleep. I'm an old paramedic and I went to college. I have both a job and a career.

Either way ...work sucks. I'd rather be hiking !!

'Slogger
AT 2003

Mags

01-11-2005, 17:18

>>Either way ...work sucks. I'd rather be hiking !!

Most intelligent statement yet. :)

weary

01-11-2005, 18:00

>>Either way ...work sucks. I'd rather be hiking !!
Most intelligent statement yet. :)
Well, I was lucky -- or perhaps wise. But for the last 33 years of my working life I earned my income doing what was basicly a hobby. The Guild was pissed off at me most of the time because I routinely broke the contract work rules.

I had the freedom of covering whatever struck me as interesting, so I didn't pay much attention to the hours I put in. It wasn't a lucrative career. But I did occasionally get paid for 130-mile canoe trips down the wild St. John River and a few winter ascents of Katahdin.

It took me 12 years and a half dozen colleges (most of them night school classes) to get a degree. But I found the result worth it. I don't recall ever wearing a white collar, and only rarely a tie.

I decided to go to school seriously while working as an electrician in a Chicago factory that was making skins for skinless hot dogs. I wasn't a very good electrician, but I figured I would be as good at supervision as the electrical engineer who was our boss.

But after three years I decided I had had enough of electrical circuits and math. Only two schools at the University of Illinois would transfer my engineering credits -- journalism and education. It was not a hard choice, though I would have made a better living as a teacher.

My rule, before, during, and after college, was to do and to study whatever struck me as interesting. AS a result I've acquired a lot of interesting experiences and a lot of fascinating, though mostly useless information.

Weary

minnesotasmith

01-12-2005, 00:37

1) Pick something that cannot easily be sent overseas to be done by a smart Third-worlder for 1/20th of what you would want for the same work. That means that not only computer programming, but architecture, radiology, CAD work -- almost any field that mostly involves work in front of a computer these days is at great risk of being largely unavailable to Americans in the near future, especially if it is not a highly verbal job.

2) Pick something that is likely to have its demand hold up fairly well in the event of an economic downturn. Learn about Maslow's hierarchy before declaring a major in college or selecting a trade school/apprenticeship program. That means massage therapy or perfume sales is out, but fixing computers or appliances is in.

3) Remember that most college majors are so useless for finding work, that they might as well be left off resumes. Anyone who has a college degree generally knows what they are. Hint: anything not remotely in science or engineering probably is one of those majors. Even Education degrees, long a useful fallback for the least-bright college students, are a bad bet for the future with all the alternative certification programs for other (smarter, more specifically educated) degree holders taking root all over the country. (Homeschooling is exploding in popularity, too, as HS'ed kids win all the awards, and that's not good news for the education major...)

I have a science master's degree, but if I were to do it over again, I would either have gotten an engineering degree, or become a plumber or electrician. Really.

Mountain Dew

01-12-2005, 02:48

I simply want to be Mountain Dew !!!

minnesotasmith

01-12-2005, 02:51

You have, I presume, heard about the new liquid form of Viagra that comes in a soft drink form so guys who hate swallowing pills have another option?

It's called "Mount and Do". :D

Mountain Dew

01-12-2005, 03:14

I had a dog in a hippie van try to "Mount" the Dew once when I got a hitch. Dang dog tried to hump my leg from the side mount all the while his cat was trying to climb on my shoulders. He also ran out of gas and coasted several miles down hill to a motel where I insisted on getting out. Worst hitch ever !!! Wait...what was this topic again ? :cool:

Mags

01-12-2005, 12:11

Well, I was lucky -- or perhaps wise. But for the last 33 years of my working life I earned my income doing what was basicly a hobby. The Guild was pissed off at me most of the time because I routinely broke the contract work rules.

You found a position that you could be passionate about. Know very few people who can claim that statement. (Myself included..I like my job, but it is not my life -it is for a paycheck only sad to say..it is why I am probably going back to school at some point because history is more my passion. At one point thought teaching at a two year college level would be about right for me. Less research, more teaching. We'll see.)

I wonder if some of us go on these long walks because it allows us to fill a need that is not found in our daily lives. I noticed the need to do long walks the most is when I needed a vague "something" in my life. As I am pretty content with my life now and can find beauty, passion and challenge just out my backdoor (and I do enjoy my work environment), the need to take off for five months is not as strong. It is there, but it is not like 1998 and 2002 where I HAD to take off.

I say this with no sarcasm Weary: I am a bit envious that you found something that you can claim satisfied you on so many levels. We should all be so lucky.

Mags (no collar today..wearing a wool sweater :)

Noggin

01-12-2005, 12:56

Mags, do you realize how many people wearing white collars and living in big cities would do almost anything to live in Boulder, CO? The grass is not always greener beneath the feet of a herd.

Mags

01-12-2005, 13:08

Mags, do you realize how many people wearing white collars and living in big cities would do almost anything to live in Boulder, CO? The grass is not always greener beneath the feet of a herd.

Never said I wasn't lucky..did I? :)

My exact line:

"As I am pretty content with my life now and can find beauty, passion and challenge just out my backdoor (and I do enjoy my work environment), the need to take off for five months is not as strong. It is there, but it is not like 1998 and 2002 where I HAD to take off."

I like my life pretty well right now. Made some sacrifices to do it (my income level would go further in my homestate of RI for example)..but I love my life. Suspect if I was not living in the foothills of the Rockies with all the chances I have for outdoor pursuits, my life would not be as good as it is. To make it 100% complete, would need a positon like Bob had -combining passion and a paycheck! Planning to make more sacrifices to achieve that goal.

bobgessner57

01-13-2005, 00:51

My experience as a college educated, tech school educated, self employed dirty blue collar artisan is that the lessons I learned (and continue to learn) hiking are the ones that I measure my life by. My liberal arts degree is valuable as a mind expander (education), my technical degree was valuable as a bread and butter earner (highly trained in the science behind and production and delivery of top quality photographic product). I now primarily work on masonry chimneys on historic preservation and restoration projects using training from various sources, especially the U. of hard knocks. My hiking has taught me how little one needs and has made the materialism of our society seem personally irrelevant. Without materialism one measures "success" by personal spiritual criteria and can feel secure internally.

My observation is that many of my financially secure clients hold prestige degrees but are not necessarily well educated. They are often highly trained in some task that the society rewards well: surgery, law, pooter geek. Many of these people seem trapped in their career and are afraid to break out and go for their dreams. The quirky, high quality tradesmen working on their houses often have a broader background, more lively and independent world view, and have arrived at their career via some twisted path. We derive satisfaction from superb craftsmanship and the pleasure of seeing people enjoy our work. The money follows and is not the primary reason for doing what we do. And when the time comes to follow a dream many will put their tools up and go, secure in the knowlege that we can make a good living doing the "dirty work" for the hog tied when we get back.

Oh yeah, it is always fun to walk into a bank on the ritzy side of town where they don't know me and watch for the reactions of the staff and patrons to my clean "estimator self" or grubby clothes and dirty skin of "blue collar self", then present a whopper of a check for deposit. Grubby self and a five figure check tends to pop eyeballs. People are so stuck on their perceptions.

saimyoji

01-13-2005, 01:21

changed my mind

Seraphim

01-15-2005, 02:33

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."

Mark Twain usually says it best. I pulled this from another post, because that's all I have to say about that.

saimyoji

07-31-2008, 21:39

You sure? I was planning on resupplying by trading beaver pelts at stores along the way.

perhaps she'll give you her's

Wise Old Owl

07-31-2008, 23:40

cornflake

08-01-2008, 01:12

Life ain't tough for an AT hiker. Especially nowadays.
That's Like saying "Life ain't tough in the city." All depends on how yer doing it.

minnesotasmith

08-01-2008, 08:34

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."

Mark Twain usually says it best. I pulled this from another post, because that's all I have to say about that.

Go ahead and pick out your burial plot before you go in the clinic to get a hangnail looked at, if that's how your doc's mind works.

http://www.shiva.3dk.org/galery_3d/rip.jpg

RememberYourZen

08-01-2008, 08:57

troll, troll, troll your boat, gently down the stream....

Mags

08-01-2008, 09:30

This is also a thread that is almost 3 yrs old.

Let's let this thread RIP... 'eh?

:sun

Homer&Marje

08-01-2008, 10:30

interesting topic to this thread. I just want to have a good time in the woods whether it be whiteblaze, blueblaze, orangeblaze, or an unmarked trail for me to escape people who bitch about peoples bitching until it comes to a pointless thunderous roll of an ending. If you don't want to hear or listen to people bitch about things then leave society, until then that's what humans do unfortunately, we bitch, and apparently although your divine intervention was probably well intentioned, alls you are doing is bitching about the AT and the people that walk it.

Happy Trails

slowandlow

08-01-2008, 12:00

My hiking has taught me how little one needs and has made the materialism of our society seem personally irrelevant. Without materialism one measures "success" by personal spiritual criteria and can feel secure internally.

.

This is what I learned from the trail also. I now work as a computer tech for about 1/3 the pay I made as a salesman in the corporate world. I am also much happier, more fulfilled, sleep better at night, and ironically, have much more savings in the bank than I ever did at my former job. I am no longer concerned with buying expensive things that I had no time to use. Instead, I enjoy life and its simple pleasures, most of which are free.