Drinking Water for Hiking: Myths and Facts

[SouthMark]

Interesting article:

http://www.lightandmatter.com/article/hiking_water.html

[JaxHiker]

Interesting. I've just been looking at leaving my Hiker Pro behind in favor of AquaMira or the MicroPur I have. My main concern is some of the mud holes I've had to suck water out of. It'd take me forever to fill a bottle w/o a filter. You don't always get a nice source you can scoop water out of.

[Pedaling Fool]

Interesting. I've just been looking at leaving my Hiker Pro behind in favor of AquaMira or the MicroPur I have. My main concern is some of the mud holes I've had to suck water out of. It'd take me forever to fill a bottle w/o a filter. You don't always get a nice source you can scoop water out of.
I drank out of a mudhole once in N.H., untreated/unfiltered. It was the worse water I've ever drank, left a slimmy feel in my mouth, but I'm still here to irritate the hell outta all you guys:D

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I knew my coffee drinking was good for me:

"Proponents of the dehydration myth commonly claim that alcoholic and caffeinated drinks "don't count," because alcohol and caffeine dehydrate you. In fact, beer consumed in moderation has a hydrating, rather than a dehydrating, effect,[Valtin 2002] and laboratory studies have shown that caffeinated soda is just as hydrating as water, i.e., the diuretic effect of the caffeine is too small to measure.[Grandjean 2000] Even in the case of coffee, which has much higher concentrations of caffeine than soda, studies going back as far as 1928 have shown that the diuretic effect vanishes for people whose bodies have learned to tolerate the caffeine.[Eddy 1928]"

[russb]

I found it odd the recommendation for stream vs lake water, and especially avoiding the surface of the lake water. In a stream, there is potential for upstream contamination. This is especially true if the stream is actually an outlet for a pond, marsh or lake. Of course spring fed streams are ideal! regarding lake water, if the water is calm the sun's uV will penetrate the top few inches of the surface disinfecting any possible contamination. I found that portion of the article odd since it was the portion which had zero source citations and interestingly, the only portion which contradicts my experience and research. Even though I do not treat my water, I do not try to convert others, I try to keep it as low key as possible. I was brought up drinking backcountry water straight from the source. I learned what to do and what not to do. i also believe my gut flora is not just used to the microorganism commonly found out there, but is indeed made up of them. The more and more we learn we find that not only are almost all these bacteria, etc... harmless but many are beneficial and (I think) necessary.

[Wise Old Owl]

John where did you chop that out of?

I watch a group of guy guzzle coffee each morning and down beers at night, like on a carousel they can't get off of.

[SassyWindsor]

Interesting article:

http://www.lightandmatter.com/article/hiking_water.html


The article speaks about NOT washing hands in water sources, I would guess this also applies to cookware, underwear, footwear, pets and yourself. If you confront someone doing this prepare for the canned reply: "this little bit of soap won't hurt anything"

[LoneRidgeRunner]

Interesting. I've just been looking at leaving my Hiker Pro behind in favor of AquaMira or the MicroPur I have. My main concern is some of the mud holes I've had to suck water out of. It'd take me forever to fill a bottle w/o a filter. You don't always get a nice source you can scoop water out of.

Exactly....a good case for taking a filter / pump... I've had to get water from sources way too difficult to dip out of many times... Of course every one could save a pound of weight by leaving the pump / filter at home and just carry all the water you'll need with you :rolleyes:..LOL...I think I'll take my filter and have water when the source is a wet spot in the ground..

[Pedaling Fool]

John where did you chop that out of?

From the OP's link http://www.lightandmatter.com/article/hiking_water.html

Third paragraph from the top under the title: Myths about hydration

[JaxHiker]

Exactly....a good case for taking a filter / pump... I've had to get water from sources way too difficult to dip out of many times... Of course every one could save a pound of weight by leaving the pump / filter at home and just carry all the water you'll need with you :rolleyes:..LOL...I think I'll take my filter and have water when the source is a wet spot in the ground..
Yeah, that's my concern. Just because it's a spring doesn't mean it's flowing like a mighty river. Last thing I want to do is push my lips into the mud trying to suck the water up. :D

[OliveOil]

on my thur-hike I really never filtered spring water and I used a drop of bleach per litter to filter everything else unless I was in a cow field then I would use two drops. I never had any issues with it. Also unless I was in PA I never really carried more than 1.5 litters at a time. anymore than that was usually pointless, I found that I only needed 1 litter of water for every 5 miles.

[OliveOil]

oh yeah I also chugged a litter in the morning to make up for the night

[d.o.c]

as a wise ridge runner once said "u should always filter ur water" as we drank right out of the spring ... i never realy filterd springs never had issues... pumpd creeks and such tho..... once my pump broke i used a piece of cloth sketchhhyy but it workd i was fine.

[OliveOil]

A guy I hiked with (the majority of the time) would just shake his water bottle. He claimed it confused the giardia. He carried a hiker pro but he was just too lazy to get it out and use it. He never did get giardia though.

I'm not saying people should do this, I just thought it was funny.:D

[LoneRidgeRunner]

oh yeah I also chugged a litter in the morning to make up for the night

good plan ..much better than what I tried once...I chugged a litter before sack out time to make up for the day and then was aiming at my pee bottle half the night instead of sleeping..:D

[LoneRidgeRunner]

[QUOTE=JaxHiker;1117363]Yeah, that's my concern. Just because it's a spring doesn't mean it's flowing like a mighty river. Last thing I want to do is push my lips into the mud trying to suck the water up. :D[/QUOTE

me either

[mweinstone]

i drink every source every day allways have. never filtered or treated. carry a filter to get at hard sources. drank the ti river once.straight up. neat.

[d.o.c]

drank un treated maine pond water once tasted off ..but workd out good

[valiweva]

great water article southmark!

[garlic08]

I found it odd the recommendation for stream vs lake water, and especially avoiding the surface of the lake water....regarding lake water, if the water is calm the sun's uV will penetrate the top few inches of the surface disinfecting any possible contamination....

I've heard this recently, too, and found it interesting to think about. I don't know how old this article is. It may predate the latest thoughts. I'm adverse to pond scum, but have drunk it in emergencies with no ill effect. I carry Aquamira in cattle country, but generally, thanks to articles like this one, I don't treat water either. And I do pay more attention to food handling, hydration, and personal hygiene.

In the last couple of decades, I've met as many city folks (and pet dogs) diagnosed with giardia as I have hikers, so from my experience the article seems correct overall.

[Two Speed]

Interesting article:

http://www.lightandmatter.com/article/hiking_water.htmlToo much common sense in that article. It'll never catch on.

[SouthMark]

Too much common sense in that article. It'll never catch on.

Too much common sense and too many people raised in a fear of everything generation. To paraphrase Colin Fletcher; "you may do all these things in the name of being safe and live to a ripe old age, but lying there on your death bed you may realize that you have been dead for a very long time."

[Bronk]

I found this part the most interesting:

"Typical concentrations of Giardia cysts in the Sierra are ten times less than those found in San Francisco city water.[Rockwell 2002] Similarly low concentrations have been found in other areas of the U.S.[Jaret 2003] Very few people who believe they contracted giardiasis from backcountry water ever get tested for it, and of those who get tested, most have negative results."

Also, the part where he said you didn't have to boil water for any particular number of minutes because everything will be dead by the time the water reaches 150*, whereas boiling is 212*...therefore by the time you see bubbles the water is already safe to drink.

[uberart]

The boil water for 10 minutes thing just makes you realize how many Official lies there are floating around.

The only thing I saw was that article mentioned caffeine soda as not being diuretic. I think the bigger issue is the sugar, the average level of sugar in your blood stream is ~4g. The load for a 12 ounce soda is ~40g. Your body can only turn so much of that into making you fat, the rest gets pissed away, lest it turn your blood poisonous like a diabetic.

Otherwise it was so spot on I wanted to clap. Other hikers are the highest risk.

[fredmugs]

Interesting article since it pretty much goes in line with what I currently do. If the water source is moving I tend to not filter it but if it's stagnant or anywhere near a farm I will. My non-hiking friends couldn't believe I did that so I posted a YouTube vid of me doing it in the Whites last year.

I also do not drink nearly as much water as others claim to drink on here. I drink when I get thirsty and I only intentionally drink more water if I notice that my urine is getting darker.

I ripped a guy on here a couple of years ago for telling a noowbie hiker that he should drink a liter of water an hour even if he had to force himself to do so. Dumbest thing I've seen stated on here ever.

[SouthMark]

I had a doctors appointment a couple of days ago and my doctor always asks about my backpacking trips. He asked what did I do about water. He agreed that it was safe to drink untreated water from streams, springs and such in the mountains. He said even if wild animals had defacated upstream the giardia content would be too minor to do any harm. It would take a much larger concentration of contaminated feces to cause problems.

[fredmugs]

It's not giardia I'm concerned with as much as pesticides and who knows what those farmers are using.

I also know a doc who said if the water is moving you don't have to worry about giardia.

[Harrison Bergeron]

The article is exactly factualy correct, but I'm not sure how relevent it is.

Yes, I can hike five miles without taking a drink, even in the summer in Texas, without collapsing from dehydration. But that's the whole problem -- I often FORGET to drink regularly. Then hours later, as I'm wondering why my pack feels like an anvil and why I'm already so worn out that I don't see how I'm going to make my miles today, it suddenly dawns on me that I haven't peed since I left the car and I'm still carrying a full Camelback.

I find that I'm much stronger if I remember to sip from my hydration pack regularly. In fact, I'm the same way at my desk. I don't tend to crash in the afternoon if I've remembered to sip water in the morning. I've also discovered that since I started keeping a bottle of water at my desk I don't get sick as often. Yes, I don't NEED to drink 64 ounces of water a day to survive. But I sure feel better when I do.

And I certainly agree that most trail water is safe to drink, most of the time. So is driving without a seatbelt. But I bet nearly everyone who drinks unfiltered trail water still wears their seatbelt. The actual odds of getting hurt by not wearing a seatbelt? About 1 in every 10 million trips. Odds of getting sick from untreated water? More like 1 in 10,000.

Thanks, but I'll continue to carry water and filter anything that doesn't come out of a tap. Sometimes you just got to go with common sense.

[swjohnsey]

It's not giardia I'm concerned with as much as pesticides and who knows what those farmers are using.

I also know a doc who said if the water is moving you don't have to worry about giardia.

Filters don't remove pesticides.

[double d]

I found the article to be filled with much misinformation about water sources, treating water, even having "clean hands". Much of what is written isn't science based, its opinion based. Interesting read, but filled with misinformation.

[Espero]

Many decades ago I just drank from a water source with a Sierra cup. Never had a problem. Today I filter out the "floaters" and treat with Micropur. Not so much because its necessary, but because its easy and better to be safe than sorry.

[double d]

Many decades ago I just drank from a water source with a Sierra cup. Never had a problem. Today I filter out the "floaters" and treat with Micropur. Not so much because its necessary, but because its easy and better to be safe than sorry.

True, someone can be fine 1,000 times, but the one time your not, look out! Especially with God's knows what is in our environment as well (heavy leads, pollution, parasites).

[double d]

"I don't drink water because fish **** in it" W.C. Fields

[rickb]

I still can't figure out why taking a few diluted parasites from a stream, then collecting weeks' and months' worth together in a small leaky tube, makes much sense.

Of course my perspective assumes that one's concentrated stew of parasites might somehow "escape".

[SouthMark]

I found the article to be filled with much misinformation about water sources, treating water, even having "clean hands". Much of what is written isn't science based, its opinion based. Interesting read, but filled with misinformation.

Could you supply the factual information to support YOUR OPINION?

[weary]

The article is exactly factualy correct, but I'm not sure how relevent it is.

Yes, I can hike five miles without taking a drink, even in the summer in Texas, without collapsing from dehydration. But that's the whole problem -- I often FORGET to drink regularly. Then hours later, as I'm wondering why my pack feels like an anvil and why I'm already so worn out that I don't see how I'm going to make my miles today, it suddenly dawns on me that I haven't peed since I left the car and I'm still carrying a full Camelback.

I find that I'm much stronger if I remember to sip from my hydration pack regularly. In fact, I'm the same way at my desk. I don't tend to crash in the afternoon if I've remembered to sip water in the morning. I've also discovered that since I started keeping a bottle of water at my desk I don't get sick as often. Yes, I don't NEED to drink 64 ounces of water a day to survive. But I sure feel better when I do.

And I certainly agree that most trail water is safe to drink, most of the time. So is driving without a seatbelt. But I bet nearly everyone who drinks unfiltered trail water still wears their seatbelt. The actual odds of getting hurt by not wearing a seatbelt? About 1 in every 10 million trips. Odds of getting sick from untreated water? More like 1 in 10,000.

Thanks, but I'll continue to carry water and filter anything that doesn't come out of a tap. Sometimes you just got to go with common sense.
Well. I agree 100 percent with the last sentence. But common sense long ago convinced me that treating water in the wilds is totally unnecessary.

How come? I drank untreated water while camping every summer for two months from the age of three months through 13 years without experiencing stomach disorders. Work shortened my time in the woods as I reached my mid teen years, but I still drank untreated water out of streams in Maine and New Hampshire for several decades.

I wavered a bit as the filter manufacturers and chemical peddlers began flooding us with scary advertisements. But as I read the scientific literature, much of which has been cited by the article in question, I reverted mostly to my common sense practices.

[Harrison Bergeron]

Well. I agree 100 percent with the last sentence. But common sense long ago convinced me that treating water in the wilds is totally unnecessary.

How come? I drank untreated water while camping every summer for two months from the age of three months through 13 years without experiencing stomach disorders. Work shortened my time in the woods as I reached my mid teen years, but I still drank untreated water out of streams in Maine and New Hampshire for several decades.

I wavered a bit as the filter manufacturers and chemical peddlers began flooding us with scary advertisements. But as I read the scientific literature, much of which has been cited by the article in question, I reverted mostly to my common sense practices.

Yes, you could hike for a whole lifetime without hitting on 1 in 10,000 odds. And you could drive for several lifetimes without hitting 1 in 10,000,000 odds. Yet once a week or so in Houston, some poor soul hits the jackpot and winds up in a fatal car wreck. And every single year, 2000 people set off to hike the AT and invariablly a handful get sick from the water -- Probably the same water that you drank in complete safety the day before because the E-Coli from the cowpatty that made him sick hadn't made it to that pond yet.

A bottle of bleach weighs .5 ounces. An inline filter weighs 3 ounces. I may be an old fool, but I'm just going to keep on wearing my seatbelt and treating my water.

[Wise Old Owl]

From the OP's link http://www.lightandmatter.com/article/hiking_water.html

Third paragraph from the top under the title: Myths about hydration

Thanks John, great article.


Hey I am not going to talk about odds, but to see a video of someone with sulfurous beltching and throwing up at the same time projectile crapping the other way is not my idea of a good time... I have been there and done that.

[LDog]

And every single year, 2000 people set off to hike the AT and invariablly a handful get sick from the water

Problem is, no one knows if it's from the water, or from your hiker buddy/guardia carrier sticking his hands in your gorp bag. Or, everyone dipping their sporks in the same pot-o-gruel taking a bite, and dipping em back in again ...

More than a few folks have suggested, as did this article, that a more likely source of most gastro-intestinal problems is caused by folks simply not washing their hands after pooping and sharing their intestinal flora with their hiking friends.

[LDog]

PS. I have, and will continue to treat my water ... And to stay properly hydrated.

[weary]

... And to stay properly hydrated.
Me too. But I think the definition of properly hydrated is changing as science gradually raises it's useful head.

Except for occasional medical prescriptions that those of us who have lived long enough have to endure, I doubt if I've ever drunk 8 glasses of water a day, voluntarily.

I've always taken a drink of water when I've felt thirst. It's just that those thirst-driven drinks have never equalled the myths about the need for water consumption.

I've loved Makers Mark ever since Paw Paw praised its qualities when I met him on Saddleback. But I generally carry 100 proof stuff on the trail, which I do dilute a bit with genuine untreated cold spring water if I can find it.

[LDog]

Me too. But I think the definition of properly hydrated is changing as science gradually raises it's useful head.

Except for occasional medical prescriptions that those of us who have lived long enough have to endure, I doubt if I've ever drunk 8 glasses of water a day, voluntarily.

I've always taken a drink of water when I've felt thirst. It's just that those thirst-driven drinks have never equalled the myths about the need for water consumption.

Part of some leadership workshop I attended a few years ago included a presentation by the person who provided nutritional guidance to the Redskins among others. She asked who experienced itchy skin, itchy eyes, dry lips, indigestion and a bunch of other symptoms, and went on to suggest we weren't drinking enough water.

The body has robust compensating mechanisms that assure our critical organs get the water (and o2) they need - by diverting it from less critical organs - like lips, eyes, skin, stomach ...

When I neglect to drink water, especially in winter when the heater's slowly dehydrating me anyway, my skin gets itchy, my eyes get itchy, I have digestion issues, my mouth gets dry, I'm constantly getting static shocks at work, and I'm addicted to lip balm. Drinking ~ 2 liters a day pretty much solves all that.


I've loved Makers Mark ever since Paw Paw praised its qualities when I met him on Saddleback. But I generally carry 100 proof stuff on the trail, which I do dilute a bit with genuine untreated cold spring water if I can find it.

I'm a fan of Makers Mark and Knob Hill, and always have a flask in my pack ... Might have to find a u/l replacement for my old pewter one.:rolleyes:

[double d]

Could you supply the factual information to support YOUR OPINION?

Sure: The first statement the author states is related to drinking "8x8" of water as a myth, that one should go by "thirst". Problem is, in the backcountry, water is not always an option as we hike along, thus we hike from one water source to another, regardless of how much body fluids we lose (sweat, through the mouth) and pure dehydration sets in at about at 5% of lost body fluids. Thus the problem is, how do we define what "5% lose" is? The author doesn't, nor could a backcountry hiker (at least accurately).
Therefore, by drinking enough water (say: the 8x8 theory as a guide), we prevent the early stages of dehydration. And, the author fails to argue at what point do we know when we have lost 5% of our body fluids, as he (Ben Crowell) states that dark urine doesn't indicate dehyration. Really? Then if that is true, what does dark urine indicate? Or for that matter, what does clear urine indicate (no drop test jokes for our hikers on probation, please!!!)? Clearly he is wrong and the science he includes is wrong or at the very least, inaccurate.
I could go on if you wish, I haven't gotton to giardia, water pollution, washing hands, etc. that the good author includes in their paper. But its clear that Ben's sources are weak as well, and in some cases outdated (he sites a 1928 article).

[Skidsteer]

And every single year, 2000 people set off to hike the AT and invariablly a handful get sick from the water...

True. Well, maybe. We don't really know if it's the water.

The problem is that the folks getting sick are equally represented.

Filtering, treating with chemicals, nuking with UV, or drinking straight from the source. Take your pick. None seems to have a distinct advantage when it comes down to who gets sick.

[double d]

Except for occasional medical prescriptions that those of us who have lived long enough have to endure, I doubt if I've ever drunk 8 glasses of water a day, voluntarily.

I've always taken a drink of water when I've felt thirst. It's just that those thirst-driven drinks have never equalled the myths about the need for water consumption.


Weary: really? How much is 8fl.oz.? A gatoraid bottle is 24fl. oz.! So 8fl.oz. is a small amount to drink and most drink much more then that. So throughout the day, I'll bet the average person (certainly non-hiking) does drink about 64fl.oz.throughout the day (coffee, diet cokes, water, tea and other sources).

[weary]

Except for occasional medical prescriptions that those of us who have lived long enough have to endure, I doubt if I've ever drunk 8 glasses of water a day, voluntarily.

I've always taken a drink of water when I've felt thirst. It's just that those thirst-driven drinks have never equalled the myths about the need for water consumption.


Weary: really? How much is 8fl.oz.? A gatoraid bottle is 24fl. oz.! So 8fl.oz. is a small amount to drink and most drink much more then that. So throughout the day, I'll bet the average person (certainly non-hiking) does drink about 64fl.oz.throughout the day (coffee, diet cokes, water, tea, etc.).
Probably you are right. In my mind I think of a glass of water as being larger than 8 ounces. I've never drunk more than a few ounces of gatoraid at one time -- mostly because I thought it pretty much advertising hype when it appeared on the market, and nothing since has changed my mind.

But the whole water consumption discussion issue strikes me as beside the point -- like much of the food fad discussions. I eat things I can carry with some comfort, while on the trail -- and stuff that helps balance my health needs when in towns, like all you can eat salads, and big steaks.

[LDog]

I'll bet the average person (certainly non-hiking) does drink about 64fl.oz.throughout the day (coffee, diet cokes, water, tea and other sources).

Well, this brings up another piece of conventional wisdom the author says is a myth - That caffeinated beverages like coffee, sodas, tea, etc are diuretics and that one needs to drink an additional cup of water for every cup of caffeinated beverage one consumes.

There's recent studies that dispute that:

http://www.medicinenet.com/caffeine/page3.htm
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/559762_2
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/health/nutrition/04real.html

[Skidsteer]

Weary: really? How much is 8fl.oz.? A gatoraid bottle is 24fl. oz.! So 8fl.oz. is a small amount to drink and most drink much more then that. So throughout the day, I'll bet the average person (certainly non-hiking) does drink about 64fl.oz.throughout the day (coffee, diet cokes, water, tea, etc.).

Weary is 175 years old. And he still hikes.

I think he's pretty much dialed in what works for him at this point.

[weary]

Well, this brings up another piece of conventional wisdom the author says is a myth - That caffeinated beverages like coffee, sodas, tea, etc are diuretics and that one needs to drink an additional cup of water for every cup of caffeinated beverage one consumes.

There's recent studies that dispute that:

http://www.medicinenet.com/caffeine/page3.htm
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/559762_2
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/health/nutrition/04real.html
Sorry. Both Medicinenet and NYTimes pieces cited agree with the author that caffeine in coffee had no significant diuretic impact.

I couldn't open medscape, but recent reviews suggest that medscape and its sister sites mostly serve as hype for the sale of drugs, rather than the furtherance of science.

[double d]

In my mind I think of a glass of water as being larger than 8 ounces. I've never drunk more than a few ounces of gatoraid at one time -- mostly because I thought it pretty much advertising hype when it appeared on the market, and nothing since has changed my mind.

But the whole water consumption discussion issue strikes me as beside the point -- like much of the food fad discussions. I eat things I can carry with some comfort, while on the trail -- and stuff that helps balance my health needs when in towns, like all you can eat salads, and big steaks.

No problem Weary, I was just making an observation about how much we (as individuals) drink each day and then compare that to when we are hiking about 8-15 miles a day on the trail.

[double d]

Weary is 175 years old. And he still hikes.

I think he's pretty much dialed in what works for him at this point.

Haaaaa leave Weary alone now, he's our "most senior member of WB"!!!

[weary]

Weary is 175 years old. And he still hikes.

I think he's pretty much dialed in what works for him at this point.
Well, I still hike. But I will have only an 82nd birthday in two months. A couple of weeks ago I had an infected spleen removed. Everyone -- including me -- seems pleased with how quickly I've recovered.

I drove 200 miles in a steady snowstorm yesterday to fetch a grandson home from Maine Maritime Academy for winter break. Tomorrow I drive another 100 miles in predicted snow to deliver the early spring MATC newsletter to the volunteer in charge of getting it in the mail in time to attact members to our annual MATC meeting, April 9.

All of which is a long winded way of saying I feel great and I'm glad to be alive and reasonably active. And since what I've been doing so far seems to work, I'll probably keep on doing the same.

Do you think I can really make it to 175? It would be nice. I've got quite a few trails I want to layout and build.

I am looking forward to getting out on the trail soon. But we've had four feet of snow along coastal Maine since Xmas. I'm letting the scars heal and the snow to settle a bit before digging out the snowshoes.

[LDog]

Sorry. Both Medicinenet and NYTimes pieces cited agree with the author that caffeine in coffee had no significant diuretic impact.

I couldn't open medscape, but recent reviews suggest that medscape and its sister sites mostly serve as hype for the sale of drugs, rather than the furtherance of science.

Yes I agree. My point is that recent studies dispute the conventional wisdom. But I could have constructed that sentence so that was clear

[RWBlue]

The article is a position paper like I use to write while in college. I would pull the facts from different research that supported my position while ignoring the facts that didn't support my position.


I am sure some people who have grown up drinking out of every stream will continue to drink out of every stream in their local environment and be fine. The native Americans did it no problems, but then again,....


For me, I will carry a purifier and use it. My brother the microbiologist (working for a city water Dept. counting the bugs in the water) tells me about the water he samples and the bugs in that water. Now if I had been drinking this water all my life, it “shouldn't” be an issue, but why worry about it when I can carry my water purifier.


As far as dehydration, I know something about this as I got a ride to the hospital last year for dehydration. I was not thirsty the day I got dehydrated. I had had caffeine earlier in the day. I had plenty of water with me, but not in me. As I figure it, if I am not peeing on a fairly regular basis, I am not drinking enough.


As far as watering down your bourbon, that is just plain wrong. Good bourbon should be drank neat. And if you must, you can have a side drink. Anything else is just wrong.

[Bronk]

For what its worth, a gatorade bottle is 32 ounces, so drinking two a day would meet the 64 ounces. I easily drink 2 a day in the summer time, even when I'm not hiking. When hiking I use 32 ounce gatorade bottles and I fill them up before I leave in the morning and usually fill them up again when I make camp...so its not unusual for me to drink a gallon or more of water a day (though cooking water comes out of the two I fill up at camp). With as much food as you need to eat I'd think it makes sense that you'd be drinking a lot more water. On the AT I'd stop and eat something at least every 2 hours.

[weary]

.... As far as watering down your bourbon, that is just plain wrong. Good bourbon should be drank neat. And if you must, you can have a side drink. Anything else is just wrong.
There are a variety of bourbons. Some are great. When I can find it, I tend to drink Makers Mark at home on occasion. On the trail I prefer bourbons with less water, like 100 proof, or higher, which I tend to dilute with untreated water.

I've never gotten giardiasia, so I've come to believe that high alcohol bourbon is a powerful dual purpose water treatment. I feel great immediately after just a few ounces, and years of experimentatiion on my part makes it clear that cheap, high powered bourbon is a powerful bug killer.

[RWBlue]

There are a variety of bourbons. Some are great. When I can find it, I tend to drink Makers Mark at home on occasion. On the trail I prefer bourbons with less water, like 100 proof, or higher, which I tend to dilute with untreated water.

I've never gotten giardiasia, so I've come to believe that high alcohol bourbon is a powerful dual purpose water treatment. I feel great immediately after just a few ounces, and years of experimentatiion on my part makes it clear that cheap, high powered bourbon is a powerful bug killer.

When I say it is wrong, it is not a matter of killing bugs or not killing bugs.....it is just wrong to water down good bourbon.:D


BTW, many years ago south of the border I was drinking bad water and crystal light. My companions were drinking bad water as Ice tea (non-boiled). It took me much longer to get sick and I didn't get sick as bad.

[weary]

When I say it is wrong, it is not a matter of killing bugs or not killing bugs.....it is just wrong to water down good bourbon.:D
....
What if I just water down high alcohol, cheap bourbon, you know the kind wise people carry on the trail to lower their pack weight?

[RWBlue]

What if I just water down high alcohol, cheap bourbon, you know the kind wise people carry on the trail to lower their pack weight?

Well, if it is only the cheap bourbon.....;)

[Colter]

I have spent a couple of days total researching the topic.

The referenced article says Myth: Backpackers get sick from Giardia in the water

Lots of times waterborne illness isn't Giardia, but frequently it is. Two different studies tested people before and after backcountry trips. One showed 24%(!) picked up Giardia. The other showed from 5-8% did. Like usual, not everyone got noticeable symptoms. But some got quite sick.

I wrote an article on my blog today Waterborne Giardia for Backpackers: No Myth (http://bucktrack.blogspot.com/2011/03/waterborne-giardia-for-backpackers-no.html). It's linked to the source of many scientific studies, including the two referenced above. One of those scientific (not relying on anecdotal evidence and unproven theory) surveys found drinking untreated mountain water is an important cause of endemic infection.

[rickb]

Two different studies tested people before and after backcountry trips. One showed 24%(!) picked up Giardia. The other showed from 5-8% did. Like usual, not everyone got noticeable symptoms. But some got quite sick.

I find this topic very interesting, and look forward to reading more on the topic.

I did click on the link you provided to one of your studies, and to my reading it didn't look like a "before and after" experiment, but rather a case where an investigator found a case where a lot of backpackers got sick on one particular camping trip, then tracked the likely source back to a particular water source. Perhaps I am missing something, as only the abstract was linked (copied below):
An outbreak of giardiasis in a group of campers.

Barbour AG (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Barbour%20AG%22%5BAuthor%5D), Nichols CR (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Nichols%20CR%22%5BAuthor%5D), Fukushima T (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Fukushima%20T%22%5BAuthor%5D).

Abstract

Thirty-four of 54 campers on a 2 week trip in mountains of Utah had diarrhea during and after their trip. Twenty-two (79%) of 28 symptomatic campers' stools examined contained Giardia lamblia cysts, whereas 4 (29%) of 14 asymptomatic campers' stools had cysts. The temporal distribution of cases and the absence of clustering among food preparation subgroups suggested a common source exposure. Although the epidemiologic data and fecal coliform counts implicated the remote mountain stream used as water source by the group as the vehicle of transmission, Giardia lamblia cysts were not recovered from stream water nor were they found in intestines or feces of sampled mammals living in the drainage area. Twenty-five other campers had stools examined before and after a subsequent hiking trip in another area of Utah; none had Giardia cysts before, but 6 (24%) had them after return. Questionnaires returned by 133 of the campers showed that 5% had an illness compatible with giardiasis within 2 weeks after their trip. These surveys show that campers exposed to mountain stream water are at risk of acquiring giardiasis.





Seems to me, any case where so many people get sick on a single trip points to a shared vector in that case. But it would not in any way provide evidence as to how widespread the problem is.

Just my thoughts. Thanks for all you work on this.

[HoneyBear]

My boyfriend who is hiking now has never treated/filtered and has never gotten sick. He just picks his sources carefully and always carries enough to get him 10 to 15 miles and always replenishes when he finds a good source like a piped spring coming right out of the mountainside. When I asked him about this he said most people who get giardia do not get it from water sources but from other hikers, sharing gorp etc... Is this true?

[double d]

Well, I still hike. But I will have only an 82nd birthday in two months. A couple of weeks ago I had an infected spleen removed. Everyone -- including me -- seems pleased with how quickly I've recovered.

I drove 200 miles in a steady snowstorm yesterday to fetch a grandson home from Maine Maritime Academy for winter break. Tomorrow I drive another 100 miles in predicted snow to deliver the early spring MATC newsletter to the volunteer in charge of getting it in the mail in time to attact members to our annual MATC meeting, April 9.

All of which is a long winded way of saying I feel great and I'm glad to be alive and reasonably active. And since what I've been doing so far seems to work, I'll probably keep on doing the same.

Do you think I can really make it to 175? It would be nice. I've got quite a few trails I want to layout and build.

I am looking forward to getting out on the trail soon. But we've had four feet of snow along coastal Maine since Xmas. I'm letting the scars heal and the snow to settle a bit before digging out the snowshoes.

Weary, its good to know that there are still people in our country that get things done, congrats to you.

[weary]

My boyfriend who is hiking now has never treated/filtered and has never gotten sick. He just picks his sources carefully and always carries enough to get him 10 to 15 miles and always replenishes when he finds a good source like a piped spring coming right out of the mountainside. When I asked him about this he said most people who get giardia do not get it from water sources but from other hikers, sharing gorp etc... Is this true?
I doubt if anyone knows for sure, but the evidence is pretty strong that most giardiasis stems from poor sanitation practices by many (most?) hikers. Too many of us are proud of not using soap. Though the logic of avoiding soap in the woods has always escaped me.

[Colter]

I doubt if anyone knows for sure, but the evidence is pretty strong that most giardiasis stems from poor sanitation practices by many (most?) hikers. Too many of us are proud of not using soap. Though the logic of avoiding soap in the woods has always escaped me.

I think the evidence is pretty strong that most backpacking diarrhea is caused by poor sanitation/bad food/change of diet.

There is no good breakdown on the ratio of Giardia waterborne cases/vs. hygiene cases.

What is true is that when people get Giardia it is commonly from drinking bad water.

[Colter]

...I did click on the link you provided to one of your studies, and to my reading it didn't look like a "before and after" experiment, but rather a case where an investigator found a case where a lot of backpackers got sick on one particular camping trip...

Just my thoughts. Thanks for all you work on this.

Thanks Rick. There are two cases discussed in that link. Here is the relevant part: Twenty-five other campers had stools examined before and after a subsequent hiking trip in another area of Utah; none had Giardia cysts before, but 6 (24%) had them after return.

The evidence is clear that Giardia is fairly common in the U.S. (2 1/2 million cases+ is often quoted) and that backpackers get Giardia at a disproportionate rate. The only two studies I could find showed from 5-24% were infected with giardiasis on single trips.

[blackbird04217]

I'm not sure that is an accurate way to really test the theory though, as those hikers were likely drinking out of the same sources. It only takes one source, sure, but how far in between is that source? Send 100s of hikers in areas all over the country, each out for the week, but many different locations and the restriction to drink - (or take samples?) from the water sources. Then collect them, and test them and it would be a more accurate idea of how 'common' Giardia is. With the current way of testing, 24 people could go out for a week and come back with 0 of them infected, just based on better/worse water sources.

Going back to the million trips with a seatbelt vs 10k sips of water, that must be backwards. The chance of being hurt by not wearing a seatbelt is much lower than 1/1,000,000. Not sure on the water facts, but I know I've rarely treated water and never been noticeably effected (besides a week where I did treat). I don't recommend hikers not treat their water, but at the end of the day I listen to my gut. I honestly believe there are many more good things for our bodies in the natural water than there are bad. But I'll also agree there are bad sources out there.

[weary]

....What is true is that when people get Giardia it is commonly from drinking bad water.
It certainly is true that sometimes giardiasis is caused by drinking bad water. How common that is I think is a matter of speculation. It's my guess that a more common cause of the disease are friendly, but unsanitary, hikers that are carriers of the giardia cysts, who pass around bags of gorp, contaminated by soap-free hands.

[Colter]

I'm not sure that is an accurate way to really test the theory though, as those hikers were likely drinking out of the same sources.

There are mountains of anecdotal evidence that people are getting Giardia from drinking water. Good studies provide some good hard data. The more good data there is, the more accurate the conclusions that can be drawn from them will be. What the studies have established so far is that some people are getting Giardia from backcountry drinking water, and at some places at given times the odds of getting Giardia are quite high.

I am all in favor of more extensive, dependable studies, but until then we have to work with what we have.

[CowHead]

I filter everything with my Katadyn Hiker PRO wt 11 oz why take the chance. but the article makes me want to say slurp like the deer mmmm to slurp or not to slurp that is the question

[Colter]

I filter everything with my Katadyn Hiker PRO wt 11 oz why take the chance. but the article makes me want to say slurp like the deer mmmm to slurp or not to slurp that is the question

Did you read my rebuttal (http://bucktrack.blogspot.com/2011/03/waterborne-giardia-for-backpackers-no.html)? I don't think you'll be so tempted to slurp if you do.

[rickb]

Here is the relevant part: Twenty-five other campers had stools examined before and after a subsequent hiking trip in another area of Utah; none had Giardia cysts before, but 6 (24%) had them after return.

I read right past that. It certainly supports what you are saying. Thanks.

The thing I can't reconcile is if a filter will really help. If a filter is doing its job, then you quickly end up with a cylinder full of highly concentrated Giardia. If you are like me you will try to keep the hoses in separate bags, but that toxic stew is going to leak out sometime, somewhere.

To my way of thinking a filter may be great the few times you use it, but after its been banging around in pack for 4 or 5 months (or sitting on your shelf for 4 or 5 years) who is to say that it isn't doing more harm than good?

Of course if it keeps you spouse happy, I think it is very wise to use one and keep your mouth shut.

[Llama Legs]

on my thur-hike I really never filtered spring water and I used a drop of bleach per litter to filter everything else unless I was in a cow field then I would use two drops. I never had any issues with it. Also unless I was in PA I never really carried more than 1.5 litters at a time. anymore than that was usually pointless, I found that I only needed 1 litter of water for every 5 miles.

totally agree. My back up would be to heat water (to over 146 degrees...). Then I'd just drink it.

[SouthMark]

Giardia infection can occur through ingestion of dormant cysts in contaminated water, food, or by the faecal-oral route (through poor hygiene practices). The Giardia cyst can survive for weeks to months in cold water,[4] and therefore can be present in contaminated wells and water systems, especially stagnant water sources such as naturally occurring ponds, storm water storage systems, and even clean-looking mountain streams. They may also occur in city reservoirs and persist after water treatment, as the Giardia cysts are resistant to conventional water treatment methods such as chlorination and ozonolysis. Zoonotic transmission is also possible, and therefore Giardia infection is a concern for people camping in the wilderness or swimming in contaminated streams or lakes, especially the artificial lakes formed by beaver dams (hence the popular name for giardiasis, "Beaver Fever").
In addition to waterborne sources, fecal-oral transmission can also occur, for example in day care centers, where children may have poor hygiene practices. Those who work with children are also at risk of being infected, as are family members of infected individuals. Not all Giardia infections are symptomatic, and many people can unknowingly serve as carriers of the parasite.

[skooch]

I doubt if anyone knows for sure, but the evidence is pretty strong that most giardiasis stems from poor sanitation practices by many (most?) hikers. Too many of us are proud of not using soap. Though the logic of avoiding soap in the woods has always escaped me.

so should we practice SNH (shake no hands)? would other hikers think me rude? fist bumping OK?

[weary]

so should we practice SNH (shake no hands)? would other hikers think me rude? fist bumping OK?
Shaking hands is harmless, providing you wash them a bit before eating. Giardia is often caused by dipping onto a friendly hikers gorp, that has already been dipped into by many unwashed hands. It's also caused by letting friendly trail dogs lap your face.

[garlic08]

so should we practice SNH (shake no hands)? would other hikers think me rude? fist bumping OK?

Fist bumping is fine.

[jang]

I am happy to hear that so many hikers have drank unfiltered and untreated water and are doing fine.

I'm getting the message that picking a good water source and good hygiene are important.

"Science is the new religion," a wise man told me, and I have found this to be very true on numerous levels. There is currently some bad science out there, where scientists say what they are paid to say even when it is not in the best interests of mankind, but rather in the interests of whoever is paying them. (I'm not saying all science is incorrect). It's just like the water sources. Some sources are clean, some are dirty.

We start by choosing the sources we think are best. In the end one must choose the sources that work for oneself through personal experience. Is this not right?

The fact remains that *some* people *do* get sick, (and some do not get sick!) and there must be reasons why.

[weary]

....We start by choosing the sources we think are best. In the end one must choose the sources that work for oneself through personal experience. Is this not right?

The fact remains that *some* people *do* get sick, (and some do not get sick!) and there must be reasons why.
Well, it goes a bit beyond "personal" experience. Humans evolved through the ages to drink untreated water. Until a few decades ago there were no filters, and no chemicals with which to treat water. When one got thirsty, one looked for a water source and drank.

So those of us who do not regularly treat our water are part of a long human tradition. The wisest of us refrain from drinking from sources found where farm animals are grazing, The wisest of us prefer cold spring water if we can find it.

But as I was growing up no one treated water from high mountain sources. That changed when filter and chemical manufacturers began running scare ads, and thus changed this traditional practice.

The temptation to lie or to omit facts it seems to me come from those who are trying to sell us something.

It is true, then and now, some people got sick when wandering through the mountains. And there are in fact reasons. The article that spurred this discussion reports on some of the science involved.

The key point being raised seems to be that it is rare to find giardia cysts in back country water in sufficient concentration to cause sickness. That suggests that there is another reason for the episodes of sickness hikers report.

I haven't seen any scientific studies that pinpoint the cause. But White Blaze discussions provide hints. Many avid hikers seem convinced that there is no reason to use soap in the backcountry. And most seem to love trail magic. Most hikers eagerly reach into proffered bags of gorp, no matter how many soap free hands have reached in there earlier.

[bflorac]

When hiking the AT, it comes close to civiziation way too often to be sure you know where the water comes from. Often I was thinking I was in the middle of knowwhere only to find a farm, a parking lot or housing just over the ridge. Often what seems to be a natural spring is just run off from a pond over the ridge that has gone below ground for a bit. Point is that on the AT, just because it look like a clean source does not mean that it is.

[WILLIAM HAYES]

I use to not treat my water always drank from flowing water sources practiced good hygiene etc I got a case of giardia after drinking from a stream below a bald where evidently cattle had grazed-believe me it was no fun following a 14 day Flagyl protocol
I was fine -Now I treat all of my water using a steri pen -
RE: the statement in the article about urine color not indicating dehydration is only partly correct while it is true that darker colored urine (brown or reddish)can signal several medical issues other than dehydration or be the result of B vitamins deep yellow colored urine while hiking is a marker for dehydration

[Pedaling Fool]

I am happy to hear that so many hikers have drank unfiltered and untreated water and are doing fine.

I'm getting the message that picking a good water source and good hygiene are important.

"Science is the new religion," a wise man told me, and I have found this to be very true on numerous levels. There is currently some bad science out there, where scientists say what they are paid to say even when it is not in the best interests of mankind, but rather in the interests of whoever is paying them. (I'm not saying all science is incorrect). It's just like the water sources. Some sources are clean, some are dirty.

We start by choosing the sources we think are best. In the end one must choose the sources that work for oneself through personal experience. Is this not right?

The fact remains that *some* people *do* get sick, (and some do not get sick!) and there must be reasons why.
You say there is some bad science out there; I think everyone can agree on that. However, there's also a lot of good science that's just plain wrong. I don't know which category the OP's link falls into, don't really care.

I think for some, science is the new religion. But I'm not sure how many here actually look for scientific studies to see if it's alright to drink unfiltered/untreated water. I know I don't and there's many other things I do without one concern about if there's a scientific study to determine if it's ok/safe to do.

Like Weary said, for the bulk of our existence here on earth we've been drinking unfiltered/untreated water and many people still do to this day, we've evolved to do it. I will continue to drink water straight from the source with some non-scientific discretion, I know there's a risk, but what doesn't have a risk.

[blitz1]

Interesting article, Southmark, and many interesting comments and discussion. I emailed the author to ask him about the advice not to drink water from the top layer of lakes, but my best guess is that's where you'd have the highest concentration of Ciliates (Amoeba etc.) which are going to be pretty common in any non-flowing water. They're mostly harmless, at least the species you'd be likely to encounter along the AT, assuming you're healthy and not immune compromised. If the author replies, I'll post it here. I also gave him a link to the forum.
I'm definitely in the camp of liking to see scientific studies, but one has to keep the limitations of any scientific study in mind. As noted above, studies of one group of hikers in one geographic region at one point in time can't be extrapolated to all backpackers everywhere. Heres' a study that contained something a bit surprising to me:
Wilderness Environ Med. (http://javascript<b></b>:AL_get(this, 'jour', 'Wilderness Environ Med.');) 2004 Fall;15(3):175-80.
Gender differences among long-distance backpackers: A prospective study of women Appalachian Trail backpackers.

Boulware DR (http://whiteblaze.net/pubmed?term=%22Boulware%20DR%22%5BAuthor%5D).
Department of Medicine, Department of Pediatrics, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, USA. [email protected]
Abstract

OBJECTIVE: Backpacking is a popular recreational activity, yet the differential experiences of women are unknown. The objective was to compare women with men backpackers to determine the extent to which injuries and illnesses limit endurance outdoor recreational activities.
METHODS: This was a prospective cohort surveillance survey of 334 persons who hiked the Appalachian Trail for > or =7 days. At the end of their hike, 280 subjects completed a questionnaire. Male hikers served as controls for injury and illness.
RESULTS: Women comprised 26% (72 of 280) of the sample. The mean (+/-SD) duration of hiking was 144 +/- 66 days covering 1570 +/- 680 miles. Fifty-seven percent (41 of 72) of women and 72% (150 of 208) of men attained their goal (P = .02). The occurrence of individual musculoskeletal problems, such as strains, sprains, arthralgias, tendonitis, and fractures, were similar (P = .9) between sexes. The occurrence of diarrhea (56%) was also similar (relative risk [RR] 1.0; P = .9) between sexes.

More than half of thru-hikers get diarrhea?
here's another article with the same basic finding:
Am J Med. (http://javascript<b></b>:AL_get(this, 'jour', 'Am J Med.');) 2003 Mar;114(4):288-93.
Medical risks of wilderness hiking.

Boulware DR (http://whiteblaze.net/pubmed?term=%22Boulware%20DR%22%5BAuthor%5D), Forgey WW (http://whiteblaze.net/pubmed?term=%22Forgey%20WW%22%5BAuthor%5D), Martin WJ 2nd (http://whiteblaze.net/pubmed?term=%22Martin%20WJ%202nd%22%5BAuthor%5D).
Division of Pulmonary and Critical Care, Department of Medicine and Department of Family Medicine, Indiana University School of Medicine, Indianapolis, IN, USA.
Abstract

PURPOSE: We sought to determine the extent to which injuries and illnesses limit long-distance or endurance outdoor recreational activities.
METHODS: In a prospective surveillance study, 334 persons who hiked the Appalachian Trail for at least 7 days (mean [+/- SD] length of hike, 140 +/- 60 days) in 1997 were interviewed. At the end of their hike, subjects completed a questionnaire on injuries, illnesses, water purification methods, and hygiene practices.
RESULTS: Of the 280 backpackers who responded (a combined 38,940 days of wilderness exposure), 69% (n = 192) achieved their goal. The most important reasons for ending a hike prematurely were injury, time limitation, and psychosocial reasons. The most common medical complaints were feet blisters (64%; n = 180), diarrhea (56%, n = 156), skin irritation (51%, n = 143), and acute joint pain (36%, n = 102). The incidence of vector-borne disease was 4% (n = 11); physician-diagnosed Lyme disease was the most common, and 24% of hikers (n = 68) reported tick bites. The risk of diarrhea was greater among those who frequently drank untreated water from streams or ponds (odds ratio [OR] = 7.7; 95% confidence interval [CI]: 2.7 to 23; P <0.0001), whereas practicing "good hygiene" (defined as routine cleaning of cooking utensils and cleaning hands after bowel movements) was associated with a decreased risk (OR = 0.46; 95% CI: 0.22 to 0.97; P =0.04).
CONCLUSION: Diarrhea is the most common illness limiting long-distance hikers. Hikers should purify water routinely, avoiding using untreated surface water. The risk of gastrointestinal illness can also be reduced by maintaining personal hygiene practices and cleaning cookware.

I guess the results speak for themselves. I still don't plan to stop drinking untreated water from sources I trust, but I always look at my map to make sure there's no roads or trails that cross upstream from where I drink, but maybe I should treat more...

edited - I just realized the first author is the same between these two papers, read them too quickly before. They should be considered as a single study.

[blitz1]

I found it odd the recommendation for stream vs lake water, and especially avoiding the surface of the lake water. In a stream, there is potential for upstream contamination. This is especially true if the stream is actually an outlet for a pond, marsh or lake. Of course spring fed streams are ideal! regarding lake water, if the water is calm the sun's uV will penetrate the top few inches of the surface disinfecting any possible contamination. I found that portion of the article odd since it was the portion which had zero source citations and interestingly, the only portion which contradicts my experience and research. Even though I do not treat my water, I do not try to convert others, I try to keep it as low key as possible. I was brought up drinking backcountry water straight from the source. I learned what to do and what not to do. i also believe my gut flora is not just used to the microorganism commonly found out there, but is indeed made up of them. The more and more we learn we find that not only are almost all these bacteria, etc... harmless but many are beneficial and (I think) necessary.

I emailed your point to the author of the article, Ben Crowell, and just got this reply from him:

This is a good question. That part of my article lacks any references to
remind me of where I got that recommendation. I have also heard the opposite
stated: that solar UV kills bugs in the surface layer, so it's safer. If you
dig up any info (preferably scientific papers) to support one side or the
other, I'd be grateful if you could let me know. Please feel free to post
this on whiteblaze and invite people to contact me if they turn up any papers.
(But please don't post my email address in non-obfuscated form.)
Regards,
Ben

on a quick PubMed search of my own I couldn't find anything relevant, but in case anyone does, pls post it! you can find Ben's email by following the link in the original posting.

[lori]

What you get from sharing food, not washing hands, etc is not giardia. It's a less painful bug that has a more sudden onset and a shorter course. Giardia has a longer incubation period - if you get something within a day or two of starting hiking, it's not giardia. Nine days or so, hmmm. Maybe. Are you completely stopped due to ongoing diarrhea and the getting hungry/eating/run right through you cycle won't let you stand up? That might be giardia.

People keep telling me water sources in the Sierra are not contaminated, yet I know personally of five different people who had horrible hospital stays with doctor-diagnosed giardia, plus one friend's DOG that had to be treated for a week. You can drink infected water and never have a problem; it's a gamble whether you develop symptoms or not.

The rest of y'all can gamble all you like. You'll probably spin the roulette wheel forever if you don't hit the jackpot, thinking you'll never get sick, despite the fact that doesn't correlate with actual present of microbes. Maybe you'll never get sick. That doesn't mean no one ever will. It may mean you have a natural resistance to whatever's in the water.

Waterways in local national parks tested for all kinds of things have been positive for e. coli, among other things, and getting crypto is worse than giardia. There are lots of less dire bacterial infections one can get, too. Filter for me. Too many pack animals on the trails, too many people out there doing dumb things in the water. I really cannot afford a hospital bill.

[SouthMark]

I think that Lori has a point that some people have a natural resistance to whatever's in the water. I have been drinking unfiltered, untreated water for over 50 years and have never been sick and I do not see that is necessary for me to start now. After all the people of Mexico drink the water regularly and never get Montezuma's revenge.