Compasses! [Archive]

pcasebere

03-02-2011, 22:04

Jersey Tim

03-02-2011, 22:08

Depends on your intended purpose. Many thru-hikers choose to save a few ounces and not bring one at all. There's not a lot of backcountry navigation to be done along the AT, so you won't really use it much.

SweetAss03

03-02-2011, 22:15

By "not a lot." He means none.

harryfred

03-02-2011, 22:50

They are right for just the AT or any well established eastern trails you do not need a compass. I would suggest some thing like the Silva Forecaster 610. The compass and thermometer is nice to have when you are curious and it hangs out of the way on a pack strap. If you need a compass I would suggest something like the Silva Guide 426 I have an older model I carry always because it is the one I have. I have had it since my exploring the Mojave desert days. Now on the trails back east including the AT it is just nice to have and more often than not to use the mirror. It just hangs around my neck with my whistle which I also really don't need.

BrianLe

03-02-2011, 23:41

Indeed, it depends on what you're using it for. My watch has a compass built-in, and IMO that's plenty on the AT. For something more "wilderness", less well marked or even non-existent trails, situations where you're asking yourself "which of those are the pass I should be going up?" --- in those cases it's worth having a good compass.

With absolutely nothing snide implied towards the O.P. (about whom I know nothing), I do suggest that someone even asking that question might want to upgrade their overall navigation skills, either via a locally offered course, or by reading stuff and practicing on your own.

I wrote part of the navigation part of a FAQ for PCT thru-hikers, here (http://postholer.com/faq.php#GNavigation). That includes links to three places where you can pick up some navigation info online, then practice on your own (initially at least with whatever compass you already have available or can borrow).

garlic08

03-03-2011, 00:02

Good advice (and articles referenced) above.

If you're new at map and compass work, just get a cheapie to start with and if you get into real orienteering later then get the suitable tools. I've never had to take accurate sightings where a mirror would have made a difference, and I've done a lot of off-trail navigating. My old $10 Silva does fine, and I didn't even take that on the AT. I can get +/- 5 degree accuracy with it and that suits me fine for hiking. When I was on a fire crew, we had excellent compasses (and training to go with them).

The compass really is a small part of orienteering. Staying alert to your surroundings and route (using your head) is much more important.

SweetAss03

03-03-2011, 00:05

Sorry allow me to be more clear. For the AT...you don't need one. For other trails such as the PCT you will need one.
I realize that it is part of the ten essentials but the AT is marked about every 20 feet and let's be honest here...you are never more than a mile from a road or two.

EastCoastFeastCoast

03-03-2011, 00:10

It's not a bad idea to have just a button compass (a lot of first aid kits have them, most people throw them out to save weight) or something to have a general direction of travel, just incase you get disoriented or forget which direction on the trail you were headed. Being the boy scout that I am, I use a lensatic compass and a map and go to town (pun intended), taking needless orientation readings purely for fun! Just get what you're comfortable with. You don't have to spend an arm and a leg for a quality compass, either (nobody on the trail needs a tritium lensatic compass). Side note- don't buy the cheapest compass out there, some of them get pretty sensitive around metals and magnets.

NCarolinaHiker

03-03-2011, 00:13

I bought a Suunto M3-D Leader. If you're looking for a good baseplate compass - I'd check into it.

EastCoastFeastCoast

03-03-2011, 00:21

I guess to answer your question a little better (sorry I get all excited when it comes to compasses and geek stuff)- I think for what you need, just get whatever compass you want. Most of the features are for taking bearings and establishing orientation according to fixed points and/or maps. For what you would probably use it for, it the wrist compass is convenient for you, get it. You probably don't need to get a lensatic compass or mirror plate compass. A regular baseplate compass would be nice for using with a map, if you are into that sort of thing.

bflorac

03-03-2011, 01:55

I hike with a XG-55 watch from LaCrosse (http://www.lacrossetechnology.com/xg55/index.php). I think I paid $65 for it 3 years ago. It now looks like it is $99 direct but I found it on Amazon for $50 . A great deal! You get compass, altimeter, temperature and all the standard watch functions. I really like to keep track of my altitude when hiking. I'm not sure why, perhaps it just keeps me entertained. I have beat this watch up and wear it everyday and it just keeps on ticking. Then only issue I have is that the temperature does not read very will when you are wearing it. You need to take it off for about 10 minutes. Compare to other watches of this type, it is a real steal!

Turtle Feet

03-03-2011, 09:17

I put a compass map on my droid - it works like a charm. Oh, and it's free!

Ranc0r

03-03-2011, 09:31

If you carry a map, you should have a compass IMO. If you aren't carrying a map, you aren't likely to need a compass. I carry both, anytime I'm out and about.

Ranc0r
.

bigcranky

03-03-2011, 10:27

I have a little compass that fits on my watch band. I like being able to check the compass every once in a while, just to get a confirmation on my sense of direction.

Sickmont

03-03-2011, 11:42

I still use my Cammenga Tritium Lensatic compass that i got 25+ years ago all the time. It weighs a freaking ton but well worth the money if only because its built pretty much like a tank and will basically last longer than you.

10-K

03-03-2011, 12:14

As others have said you don't have to have a compass to hike the AT but they can come in handy from time to time.

Twice I've relieved myself of anxiety about hiking the wrong way in the fog when I started out in the morning.

I also really like knowing where I am on a map and a compass really helps with that.

I also give a +1 to what Garlic said about keeping up with where you are. A book I read last year talks a lot about the best way not to get lost is to "stay found". Totally agree.

pcasebere

03-03-2011, 17:31

bflorac

03-04-2011, 02:58

OK, here...
I was doing my first section hiking alone in NC. I approached the top of a mountain and took a short break on a ledge off the trail a bit. As I was relaxing, out of nowhere poped up a thunderstorm. I quickly put my pack cover on and decided to high-tail it off the top of the mountian. Unfortunally, in my hurry, I turned the wrong way on the trail. After trudging 2 miles down the hill in 6" of water I ran it a hiker going the other way. After I short discussion I realized I had gone the wrong way. Boy I felt stupid. Had I look at the small compass I had attached to my pack I would have seen this. This is why I carry a watch with a compass built in. Now having done this stupid act once, it has and never will happen again. Besides, the watch provide some sort of entertainment when the trail takes odd turns and heads south when you know you are on the trail northbound.

elray

03-04-2011, 08:02

As a new section hiker I did nearly this same thing when I lost the Trail at an intersection. When I realized my mistake and once again found the Trail I was confused as to the direction I was traveling, sounds improbable but it was a cloudy day and the path was winding. The compass steered me wrong in this case as this section was actually heading south and it took another mile of backtracking to get my bearings. I still carry a watch that has a built in compass, old habits!

JAK

03-04-2011, 09:11

A good compass can become a nice keepsake over time, even if a bit heavy. I still have an old silva. Aluminum no plastic. I had a new leather pouch made after I lost the original. I will give it to me daughter eventually.

SunnyWalker

05-21-2011, 00:27

The hiker is best served with a transparent baseplate compass. AND a map, of course. Go to Silva's site and there are others. Lots of training aids on the net for those who wish to learn to use it. It's great fun and on the trail it is important for navigation. Also when you are on a lookout somewhere you can drag the map out and I.D. other things like Mtns, and etc. It makes it all the more fun and enjoyable. Sure there is a well marked trail(on AT). But when you take your map out and orient it you can see what is ahead and what is to come and things you might like to see or do. Some carry the guidebooks. I think it is more fun to use the map (and compass). Also a map will help you find water when the guidebook won't.

Panzer1

05-21-2011, 00:51

a small button compass is what I would recommend.

If there is ever an emergency and you have to get off the AT and find your way to a road, then that is why you should have a compass.

Panzer

4Bears

05-21-2011, 10:24

a small button compass is what I would recommend.

If there is ever an emergency and you have to get off the AT and find your way to a road, then that is why you should have a compass.

Panzer

I agree the fraction of an ounce for a button/lapel compass pinned to your shoulder strap is worth it to me, it is easier than you think to get disoriented in fog or on a cloudy day. If that makes me wimpy, then "I will gladly pay you on tuesday for a hamburger today."

LoneRidgeRunner

05-21-2011, 10:49

If you carry a map, you should have a compass IMO. If you aren't carrying a map, you aren't likely to need a compass. I carry both, anytime I'm out and about.

Ranc0r
.

Me too..It's just good sense..someone said you're never more than a mile form a road...apparently this person has never been on the AT in the Smoky mountains.. Yes..I know the trail is marked and Stevie Wonder could follow it.. Where a map and compass could come in handy is in an emergency when you may need to get some where quicker than you could by staying on the AT til the next road crossing, which could be several to many miles depending on where you are..example the 100 mile wilderness in Maine. (find a road one mile from there when you're in the middle of it)
Back to getting some where quickly in an emergency..a map and compass could lead to a shorter route if needed ...either on another trail or bushwhacking...
I carry a SUUNTO MC-1 but any decent compass with a base plate should do for working with a map...Mine weighs a whopping 2.5 ounces with the small crab I have on the lanyard to attach it to a d ring on my back pack to ensure against loss..I Know..I know...that extra 2.5 ounces will KILL anyone..LOL..

Panzer1

05-21-2011, 11:12

LoneRidgeRunner

05-21-2011, 11:47

10-K

05-21-2011, 12:48

"ultralight" hikers do not carry a compass.
"well equipped" hikers do carry a compass.

"well equipped" is the style of hiking I do. It doesn't mean you bring everything. It just means you are more prepared to deal with trouble than the ultralighters are.

Panzer

And don't have to try and "bum" something the UL'rs choose not to carry because some just plan to "bum" it from some one stupid enough to carry it if and when they need it..note...I actually saw someone on WB post that.."I never carry xxxx because I know I can "bum" it from some one stupid enough to carry it."

These two statements are pretty extreme.

I carry a compass and I'd be considered UL by most standards these days.

I've never one time asked to borrow something from someone else.

Just because you pack the kitchen sink doesn't mean anything.... You can take what you need and leave the rest.

Ranc0r

05-21-2011, 13:08

Thank you all for the wonderful advice, but I was more so asking when for examples of situations where I would need a simple compass, a baseplate compass, and a sighting compass both with and without maps..

Sooo, are you saying that you currently have neither compass nor map, and want to know when and how to use either/both?

If you have a 'trail guide' and not a map, a simple compass will suffice, since a better instrument won't get any more information out of the document. If the guide says turn left, or the road goes north, you got all that you're going to get.

If you have a topo map, with or without trail indicators, you will need something straight like a base-plate in order to orient the map to magnetic north. Whether you take bearings or not, you need to put yourself, the map, and the world around you, into proper orientation.

If you take bearings to landmarks or structures, then you should be able to sight that bearing with your compass. I can sight to within 2^ with my old Silva Ranger boyscout compass, so that's my least common denominator, for either comparing compass features or setting acceptable degree of accuracy.

A map helps you know what the land should look like. The compass helps orient what you see with what you expect. What you can see, how far away it is, and how easily you can recognize it, determines to some degree how you will use the two together. When there's only two ways you can go, there's a lot less measurement required. But there's always more than two ways you can go, if you can determine a path to reach what you can't see from where you are.

Learn to use the tools, then apply the knowledge.

Ranc0r
.

Mags

05-21-2011, 13:09

"ultralight" hikers do not carry a compass.
"

My solo base is eight pounds.

I carry a compass.

Not sure of your correlation.

:-?

Mags

05-21-2011, 13:10

"ultralight" hikers do not carry a compass.
"

My solo base is eight pounds.

I carry a compass.

I often go places that are not as well marked as the AT or even the PCT.

Not sure of your correlation.

:-?

Panzer1

05-21-2011, 20:01

Not sure of your correlation.:-?

its a generalization, not meant to be true in 100 percent of cases.

But it certainly sounds exactly like something a UL would leave home.

Panzer

LDog

05-21-2011, 21:21

I bought a Suunto M3-D Leader. If you're looking for a good baseplate compass - I'd check into it.

That's a good-un. For a few bucks less, and a little less weight the M2 is not bad either.

I guess what I'm asking is what are the features to look for? Do I need a scale and/or sight when it comes to compasses?

The baseplate styles, such as these, allow you to plop the compass down on a topo map, align it with the north/south lines, and orient the map to the direction you're looking. So, a see-thru baseplate is real nice.

Having adjustable declination is nice but not necessary if you know how to work without it. Both of these have that.

The scales along the edges make it real easy to measure distance. Both of these have em.

Some compasses only work in one of five geographic zones, some in just the the northern or southern hemispheres, some in both North and South. The M3 is balanced for either North or South, and is also available in a "Global" balance allowing it to be used anywhere. The M2 is balanced for northern hemisphere only.

A liquid filled capsule helps dampen the needle. Both of these are liquid-filled

luminous markings help navigate at night. Both of these have em.

Those with mirrors are for more precise work like mapping, and they weigh a lot more. If you want just need triangulate off a couple of marked features to establish your general position on a map, either the M2 or M3 will do it for you. If you just want to know if you're heading north or south, a simple clip on or the one Suunto makes with the little thermometer on it that you can hang off your shoulder strap would be fine.

I like Suunto, but Brunton and others make comperable units

So There I Was

06-04-2011, 06:00

I can tell you from the stand point of someone who has been lost in the back woods of Eglin and has crossed some of the less scenic land in NC....If you need to have < 10 -15 meter accuracy, get yourself a Military Lensatic compass and paint it day-glo orange (so you won't loose it). If you want to find general direction so you know which way to start walking, get any other compass you want. I would not rely on something that takes batteries. Things happen and batteries fail...I have a Suunto watch and a really cool GPS device that will even provide 1 pulse/sec for other cool devices, but everytime I leave camp I have my lensatic compass and a map....
While I am on my soap box...Learn how to read a map if you are going to carry one. I mean really learn. Know how to read contour lines, know what different terrain looks like on a map, know how to find yourself on a map by looking at the terrain around you. Carrying a map and compass just to feel better is kinda like carring a pistol with out rounds.
I'm new here, but that is just my opinion...

Rick Hancock

06-04-2011, 07:05

I lead a lot of backpacking trips. I always carry a map of the area we're hiking and a compass. A lot of people don't know how to orient a map and compass so along with carrying it you need to understand and practice how to use it. It's neat to be able to show a beginner hiker exactly where they are along the route. I know that the A T is pretty much a boulevard but most times I take a cheap lightweight Silva. I once headed down hill on a faint path that petered out before reaching the water source which was appx. 300 yards from the trail, when I turned to head back uphill the trail had vanished. I fumbled around awhile and finally got my bearings. It was a spooky feeling for a minute or two.

Something else I noticed, people hiking on the A T for the first time think that the trail truly goes "South or North" on a hard bearing they don't understand that it meanders around in all 4 directions.

Get a cheap well made compass learn to use it!

Grits

06-04-2011, 08:03

I have the old BRUNTON Nexus type 15 that I use with a map and UTM grid reader. If you are useing a GPS type unit you need to be sure that you are using the same type Datum (NAD 1927, NAD 1983,WGN 84) that is the same as the map. I agree that most of the time a compass is not needed on the AT but for no more than a good one costs, it is worth it to know where I am :D I hate being bewildered

weary

06-04-2011, 14:46

I've been looking at a few compasses, and was wandering if something like the Suunto M-9 wrist compass will do, or if something like the Brunton 16DLU mirror sighting compass is recommended instead. When would you use one over the other? Would a basic baseplate compass, say the Silva Explorer 203 work? I guess what I'm asking is what are the features to look for? Do I need a scale and/or sight when it comes to compasses?
Those who say you don't NEED a compass (and a map) are at least partially right. Very few who who do the trail ever have an emergency in which such things are needed to head off a potential tragedy. Most experienced hikers carry them anyway, at least for the rare emergency. But a simple compass will do, regardless. A mirror siting compass is not needed. A simple Silva costs less than $20 and weighs around an ounce.

Even in an emergency someone is likely to be nearby with a map and compass. Regardless, one reason I always carry a compass is that I like the sense of being self sufficient.

But frankly a more important reason for a compass is that one is essential for knowing the trail and its surroundings. The importance of this depends in part on why one is hiking. Many hike just for the sense of accomplishment of walking 2,000 miles or whatever miles a section hike offers. A compass only rarely is useful for such a walk.

But for those of us curious about the terrain through which we are walking a compass helps immensely. A compass makes it easier to identify distant peaks and to know the terrain through which the trail runs.

In short a compass, a map, and a curious mind, like simple nature guides, are tools that help avoid the boredom of "the long green tunnel."

Panzer1

06-04-2011, 15:54

You don't need a big heavy compass on the AT. Just a small light one will do. But it should not be an overly cheap one.

Panzer

Dogwood

06-04-2011, 17:14

As others have stated, it really depends on where and what you want out of a compass. AND, THAT'S ASSUMING YOU KNOW HOW TO USE YOUR COMPASS.
ALL comapsses ARE NOT alike!

If you take a basic compass class such as at REI costing about $10 - 20 you'll probably learn about the different types of compasses and their uses. I highly recommend it! IMO, taking a small class size few hour course where you can ask questions to a knowledgeable teacher makes it easier than learning from a book.

I usually imploy a Suunto M-2 in the U.S. 2 degree increments. No mirror. See through base plate. Magnifying bubble. Measurement scales along edges. Lockable adjustment for different delinations. Hangs around my neck on a cord under my shirt while hiking. Costs about $20. Accurate for what I do where I use it.

That's a rather GROSS generalization of UL hikers Panzer! I'm an ULer and whether I decide to take a compass or not the decision IS NEVER based on saving wt!

FWIW, I feel, FOR ME, if on a typical 3 season hike of the AT in good weather while planning on adhereing to the AT proper, one of my two altimeter watches, both which have digital compasses, would be good enough, FOR ME. That's the AT under those conditions!

Mags

06-04-2011, 17:34

But it certainly sounds exactly like something a UL would leave home.

Panzer

...an incorrect assumption for experienced ULers (at least on the Western trails.)

woodstock64

06-05-2011, 08:16

While I work hard to keep my pack weight down, I am not an ULer but I will never save weight with survival tools that may someday save my life. While a compass may rarely be necessary on the AT, on those rare occasions when you do need one, you NEED to have one.

lilricky

06-13-2011, 21:45

Ya, I think the poster didn't mean all Ultralighters. But unfortunately there are a few "Ultra-ultralighters" that think borrowing from their fellow hikers is a acceptable way of reducing weight. I think we've all had that happen to us one time or another, no matter what your pack weighs. Most UL's that I have met on the trail, have been friendly and responsible hikers. I think it may be some of the "newbies" of the UL philosophy that are to blame.