Which Guide? [Archive]

hungryhowie

01-09-2005, 18:01

I hiked the trail in 2000, a year that the Thru-hiker's handbook was not available. Thus, I hiked with the Databook and Companion. From what I've seen after the trail, I think I'd carry only the Thru-hiker's handbook if I were to do it again. Having all of the information in one book seems like a good way to go.

My only nit...and maybe this has changed since I last looked at a copy, is that the trail parts and town parts are separated in two parts. It would be nice to have it all integrated. Not only would this mean you only need to be at one area to see everything where you are, but it means you could also rip out pages as you go without having to rip the book into two separate pieces.

The way I liked to do it was have a nice clean guide in my bounce box. Every time I'd get the bounce box, I'd transfer all of my new notes and marks to the "clean" guide and rip out all of the old pages. It doesn't make much difference at the beginning, but it can make a big difference at the end. If you really wanted to "optimize" this, you could pre-rip the book into sections and have them mailed to you at the right locations.

-howie

hungryhowie

01-09-2005, 18:03

Forgot the second part of your question.

For most purposes, there shouldn't be much difference between the 2004 and 2005 guides. A few services in towns may have changed, but there should be very few of them, and even fewer changes on trail. If you've already got the 2004, I don't see any reason why you'd really need the 2005.

-howie

Footslogger

01-09-2005, 20:50

You really can't go wrong with any of them. The ALDHA Companion is great, but is printed in a kind of unusual size. Then there is the ATC Databook, which essentially gives you all the water sources and mileage points. I hiked in 2003 with the Thru-Hikers Handbook. The last few years it has combined the "narrative" of the trail along with town info and has a separate section for mileage and waypoints. I broke it down into sections and tore the book apart and then sent it to myself in small chunks, rather than carry the entire book all the way.

'Slogger
AT 2003

dgodwin7

01-09-2005, 23:10

Wingfoot's book worked for my hike this summer. I liked it b/c it had everything together in one book and was a handy size that fit in my shorts pocket during the day. Not one of his selling points, but it just worked out that way. Data wise, it wasn't perfect all of the time, but it was right most of the time. I wasn't too keen on the spiral bound ALDH version. But knew folks who carried it and were just as happy.

Divining Rod

01-09-2005, 23:32

I'm taking the Thru-hikers Companion.

zephyr1034

01-09-2005, 23:33

What AT guide do you carry? I am trying to decide what I really need to bring... I've heard the maps and guidebooks really are not necessary, and that the thru-hikers handbook really is. What do you all think?

Also - I have been planning with the 2004 guide - should I switch to the 2005 guides for the trip?============================================= ====================

Does anyone besides me get irritated at "trail guides" which go on and on and on about the plant and animal life along the trail, but don't tell you which way to turn at a junction?

About a year and a half ago, I took a short hike in the Smokies, armed with "Hiking Trails of the Smokies." It's sometimes called the "little red book."

I parked on the Roaring Fork Motor Nature Trail and headed up the Trillium Gap Trail. After about a mile, I came to Grotto Falls. The trail appeared to actually go behind the falls and then continue up the mountain.

I walked back a quarter mile or so to see where I'd missed a turn. I must have missed one, right? After all, how could the book fail to mention that the trail went behind the falls? There can't be more than a dozen trails like that in the entire country. Surely the author would have pointed out a feature this unusual.

Well, guess what? I hadn't made a wrong turn, and the Trillium Gap Trail does indeed go behind Grotto Falls, between the falling water and the rock face. Whoever wrote up the description got so carried away with the plant life that they forgot it.

Describing the natural features along the trail is fine and good. But first things, first. Tell the hiker which way to go without him wondering if he got lost.

neo

01-10-2005, 00:23

i prefer thru-hiker hand book from wingfoot,:sun neo

A-Train

01-10-2005, 00:47

As worthy as the ATC is of support, and...well I won't touch on Wingfoot, but I used the Handbook in 03'. Basically when it came down to it, the Handbook told me in 1 book what the Companion/Data told me in 2. Seemed like a no brainer.

Lugnut

01-10-2005, 01:39

Support ALDHA and the ATC. Buy the Thru-hikers Companion.

For someone who says he won't join the ATC this sounds a little bizarre. Change your stripes? ;)

Flash Hand

01-10-2005, 06:10

I will definitely bring two, the ALDHA's Thru hikers' Companion and Appalachian Trail Data Book 2005 edition.

Data Book 2005 edition is already out but Thru Hikers companion will be on backorder... should be out in a few days or weeks. Those books are Thru-hikers' best friends.

All I know of the difference between Data Book 2004 edition and 2005 edition is that the most recent addition of Hurricane Mt. Shelter and minus the Raccoon Branch Shelter.

Flash Hand :jump

Lone Wolf

01-10-2005, 08:21

Hey Lug, I joined the ATC back in December. :)

shades of blue

01-10-2005, 08:35

Yea Wolf! You're slowly becoming my new hero! (no sarcasam intended at all)

TJ aka Teej

01-10-2005, 08:42

The Companion is written for the most part by hikers who hike their sections and visit the service providers in person every year. That other book is written for the most part by someone doesn't hike anymore and gathers his information via telephone. The revenue from one supports the Trail, the revenue from the other doesn't. As A-Train said, "it's a no-brainer".

yogi clyde

01-10-2005, 14:25

I started out last year with the data book and sections from the companion, but switched to Wingfoot's book, and will just use his this year.

The reason I preferred Wingfoot, was he listed more water sources.

Either way, you cannot go wrong.

Do not bother with the guides, but I'm a believer in always carrying a map, but you will get much debate on that.

Happy Trails

Lugnut

01-10-2005, 14:45

Hey Lug, I joined the ATC back in December. :)
Glad to hear that. You may amount to something yet! :clap

The Solemates

01-10-2005, 14:50

We carried WF's 2000 Handbook for our 2004 thru because I had had it from years past and it was free. Although it was 4 years old, the trail hadn't really changed. And we liked the idea of everything there together as well...

As a side note, you can usually find old handbooks online for real cheap...$2-$5. Or you can print out the Companion online for free. Or you could support your trail organizations and buy them I guess...

Jaybird

01-10-2005, 15:31

Footslogger

01-10-2005, 15:48

the latest A.T. DATA BOOK is ALL you need!
your 2004 info will be fine. :D==============================
This is probably true, if you've already hiked the AT and don't want any info about the towns or hostels. Otherwise, that info is mighty helpful.

'Slogger
AT 2003

chris

01-10-2005, 16:03

Here is a stupid reason not to use the data book, and instead just use Wingfoot. The Data book lists mileages North to South. Working backwards in my head is too difficult for me.

hungryhowie

01-10-2005, 16:39

Here is a stupid reason not to use the data book, and instead just use Wingfoot. The Data book lists mileages North to South. Working backwards in my head is too difficult for me.

unless it's changed in the past 4 years, the databook lists the mileage north to south on the left side of the page, and the mielage south to north on the right side of the page. Seems like it would have been a strange decision to stop that.

-howie

Skyline

01-10-2005, 16:47

Unless it's a $$ issue, you can get the maximum info by buying both the Handbook and the Companion. Each has its strong points and weak points. More importantly, each has some info the other doesn't. The Data Book is ATC's official mini-guide, but it seems like since Wingfoot changed his format a few years ago that the front half of his book serves the same purpose.

If you have access to a photocopy machine, you can copy pages from each book (maybe reducing each to 80% of original size). Then cut-and-paste (the old fashioned way, with scissors and glue) what you figure a day's hike should roughly be onto a sheet of copy paper. Add a reduced-size copy of the elevation profile for that same part of the trail, then photocopy the whole layout again onto a clean sheet. You only have to carry a few sheets of paper in your pack at any given time, and can always have the section you're hiking "today" in a ziploc in your pocket for fast, easy access. To save more weight, you can even make notes on each sheet as you use it in lieu of an actual journal.

If you have the section guides, you can also include the relevant text for the direction (N or S) you're hiking.

You can keep the pages for "up the Trail" in a bounce box, or have them shipped to you as needed in maildrops.

You may also want to carry the map for each section, so you can see what's out there left, right, and ahead. Especially good to have maps if you want to know how to get off the trail, where side trails go, what you're looking at during viewpoint rests, etc. But having the profile as part of the homemade daily sheet is good too.

This system worked well for me as a section hiker. I know thru-hikers who've used variations of the same idea. They said they had fun doing all the copying, pasting, etc.--tho it WAS time-consuming. They also said the whole exercise helped them become more familiar with the Trail than just skimming a guidebook would have. At least one thru-hiker from '02 did something very similar to this by using a scanner and OCR software, then copy-pasted (the NEW-fashioned way!) to a page layout program before printing out on a laser printer.

Note: I'd use a toner-based copier or printer, not an inkjet-type copier-printer. The latter will not last 30 seconds in a drizzle because most inkjet copies "run" when wet.

Jack Tarlin

01-10-2005, 17:05

John:

It's always wise to obtain and use the most current Handbooks, Guides, and Maps that are available.

While it is indeed true that much of the information in 2004 guidebooks will also be accurate a year later, this is not always the case: Businesses change, they close their doors, they change their focus, or go after different clienteles. Their prices are ALWAY changing. Keep in mind that the 2004 Guidebooks were compiled, edited and published in late 2003 and early 2004. This means that if you're hiking well into the year 2005 with one of these books, you're using some information that may have been gathered and checked almost two years before.....it is almost inevitable that sooner or later, you're going to run into something in your old book that is simply innacurate for travel this year. Sooner or later, you WILL depend on a general store that's no longer in existence, or a motel that no longer offers hiker rates, or takes dogs, or whatever. Sooner or later, an out-of-date guidebook will let you down. (This is especially true in picking places for mail drops or packages: Every year, there are places whose policies change, that STOP accepting hiker mail, etc. If you don't know this when you are planning your drops, this could make for some real inconvenience when you go to pick up the mail you're expecting!)

Personally, I'd spend the few dollars on the most up-to-date guidebooks I can find. There is, of course, still the chance that somewhere down the line you discover your book contains errors or materiel that's no longer entirely true, but your chance of this happening is much smaller if you get a new book.

Lilred

01-10-2005, 18:50

Youngblood

01-10-2005, 19:35

...It's always wise to obtain and use the most current Handbooks, Guides, and Maps that are available. ... Personally, I'd spend the few dollars on the most up-to-date guidebooks I can find. There is, of course, still the chance that somewhere down the line you discover your book contains errors or materiel that's no longer entirely true, but your chance of this happening is much smaller if you get a new book.

Jacks right, of course. It is well worth it to have the most up to date info, one hitch or long road walk to a business that isn't there anymore will convince you of that... or the hotdog stand 0.25 mile down the road that you didn't know about and passed by.

I think Jack forgot his usual remark about making note of errors in the existing guidebook and passing that info back to the publisher when you finish your hike to help them stay current.

Youngblood

Jack Tarlin

01-10-2005, 19:53

Youngblood's suggestion re. pointing out errors or omissions to editors and authors is an excellent one; these folks WANT to hear this information, so they can take steps to correct or amend their books, so don't be shy about doing it. In the course of your hike, if you see something in a guide that's wrong, or something you dispute, or if there's something missing you think is important, by all means let these folks know; the authors will appreciate your helping to make their work more accurate and useful, and it'll make it a lot easier for the hikers coming after you.

The Old Fhart

01-10-2005, 19:59

The only good reason I can think of to have an out-of-date copy of the Companion is that the 2003 edition has my photo on the cover!

chris

01-11-2005, 10:57

unless it's changed in the past 4 years, the databook lists the mileage north to south on the left side of the page, and the mielage south to north on the right side of the page. Seems like it would have been a strange decision to stop that.

-howie

Upon further reflection (I went home and looked at the book), Howie is right. The data book lists both. So, I replace my stupid gripe with another one: The Data Book doesn't give you a constant distance to or from Springer or Katahdin, forcing you to do some arithmetic to figure out how far away you are.

Gonzo!

01-11-2005, 11:26

Sounds like no one uses ATC Guides any longer. The truth is, they may not be necessary to make a hike a reality, but without them you are just hiking over nameless terrain. This may not be important now, but wait till years later when you want to figure out where exactly where something happened. The major peaks you will remember, but the trail is much more than that. For those concerned about weight, just take them apart and bring only the parts you need. I have not seen Wingfoot's guide or any of the others as they were not available when I was hiking, so forgive me if this information is in there as well. All we had besides the ATC Guides was the "Beer drinker & Icecream eaters guide to the Appalachian Trail" which became the Philosopher's Guide which evolved into what is available today.

Tim Rich

01-11-2005, 12:13

If money's an issue, the 2004 Companion is available online for free at http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm
The ATC keeps a page showing any updates during the hiking season at http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hike/updates/companion.html#updates
In recent years, the current year Companion has been available online for free before typical thruhiking season begins. If you choose to go that route, the 2004 edition with ATC updates is certainly adequate for planning purposes.

Whatever you use, I wish you well.

Take Care,

Tim

Footslogger

01-11-2005, 12:20

Sounds like no one uses ATC Guides any longer. The truth is, they may not be necessary to make a hike a reality, but without them you are just hiking over nameless terrain. .=========================
I think the guide books are great for exactly that reason ...to learn more about the land and landmarks over which you are hiking. Definitely NOT a necessity during the hike though. I bought the set and read over them prior to my hike and made some notes about specific places. Then after my hike I re-read many of the guides to refresh my memory.

Anyhew ...just my .02

'Slogger
AT 2003

hungryhowie

01-11-2005, 12:24

Upon further reflection (I went home and looked at the book), Howie is right. The data book lists both. So, I replace my stupid gripe with another one: The Data Book doesn't give you a constant distance to or from Springer or Katahdin, forcing you to do some arithmetic to figure out how far away you are.

I agree, that part does suck :D

Math will be the death of me.

-howie

Youngblood

01-11-2005, 12:39

... So, I replace my stupid gripe with another one: The Data Book doesn't give you a constant distance to or from Springer or Katahdin, forcing you to do some arithmetic to figure out how far away you are.Why is that?

A thru-hike is certainly easier to plan for and do if the information is laid out in a way that is more usable for thru-hiking. That is basically what Wingfoot has done and why some people prefer to use his Handbook, not so much that the info is different or more complete, but because it is presented in a way that a thru-hiker can more easily use. The information that the ATC and ALDHA publishes is probably the most accurate and complete because of the various local expertise used in gathering the information. But it seems like there is one step missing in their process ...integrating it into one one seamless guide. And that is where Wingfoot fills a void.

Again, why is that? Is this a professional curtesy or something done out of respect for Wingfoot?

Youngblood

MOWGLI

01-11-2005, 12:48

Again, why is that? Is this a professional curtesy or something done out of respect for Wingfoot?

Youngblood

I think it's cause the vast majority of hiker are section hikers. They probably outnumber thru-hikers 10 to 1. If you factor in the person who lives near the trail, and just likes to hike, they outnumber the thru-hiker 300 to 1.

Most books written for just the thru-hiker are not likely to sell very well. Just my opinion.

Mags

01-11-2005, 12:49

=========================
I think the guide books are great for exactly that reason ...to learn more about the land and landmarks over which you are hiking. Definitely NOT a necessity during the hike though. I bought the set and read over them prior to my hike and made some notes about specific places. Then after my hike I re-read many of the guides to refresh my memory.

Anyhew ...just my .02

'Slogger
AT 2003

That's how I used the ATC guidebooks as well. Good for post and pre hike. Love to read about the histrory of the area I went through, esp. Add some layers to a thru-hike.

Youngblood

01-11-2005, 13:22

I think it's cause the vast majority of hiker are section hikers. They probably outnumber thru-hikers 10 to 1. If you factor in the person who lives near the trail, and just likes to hike, they outnumber the thru-hiker 300 to 1.

Most books written for just the thru-hiker are not likely to sell very well. Just my opinion.
I don't agree with you on that. ALDHA's is called the Thru-Hikers Companion and the ATC's is called the Appalachian Trail Databook. The ATC also has the 11 or so Trail Guide Book series that are regional. I think the Thru-Hikers Companion and Appalachian Trail Databook are for long distance hikers and that it would be best if they were intergrated into one seamless book for long distance hikers. I also think that section hikers are thru-hikers that are just taking a little longer than someone's questionable(?) '12 month deadline' and need the same information since they are hiking the same trail.

Youngblood

TJ aka Teej

01-11-2005, 14:22

ALDHA's is called the Thru-Hikers Companion and the ATC's is called the Appalachian Trail Databook.
Just to clarify - the Companion is an ATC publication compiled by ALDHA volunteers.

MOWGLI

01-11-2005, 14:48

By the way,I recently saw the new edition (3rd) of the ATC SW Virginia Guide. It is leaps & bounds better than the 2nd edition. Instead of listing the trail description from both North to South, and then again South to North, they list it once in a way that is helpful regardless of which direction you are hiking. The font is also different, and that makes the guide more legible.

I hope they do this for all the ATC Guides. It'll save weight, paper, and make the books much more user friendly.

tlbj6142

01-11-2005, 18:00

You should see the new 2004 ME guide. The mile by mile trail descriptions are actually on the back of the topo map. So, just by carrying the map(s) you get up to date profile information, "mountain identification" arrows from certain peaks (I really liked this), plus on the back you get trailhead info (location/parking), some lodging/town info (very, very minimal) and a "cartoon" map with both SOBO and NOBO mileage (showing shelters, streams, other POI) and complete trail descriptions.

The actual "guide" is strictly bathroom reading material (history of the segment, geological info, etc.)

Its the best I've seen. My only complaint is the use of 3D shading on the topo. Once you've learned to read a topo the shadows actually get in the way.

TJ aka Teej

01-12-2005, 10:38

You should see the new 2004 ME guide. The mile by mile trail descriptions are actually on the back of the topo map.
The update was really needed, and is very well done. I hike in Maine with just the maps, making notes as I go along. My old Maine maps got pretty marked up after 8 years or so of use! Good job, MATC!

Mountain Dew

01-13-2005, 02:42

The guide book and companion are what I choose to carry. The only problem i had is that people who used wingnuts book kept wanting to borrow one of my books. Also ..wingfoots book doesn't give as much info on towns as the companion does.

SGT Rock

01-13-2005, 08:03

The Old Fhart

01-13-2005, 08:13

TJ aka Teej- "The update was really needed, and is very well done. I hike in Maine with just the maps, making notes as I go along. My old Maine maps got pretty marked up after 8 years or so of use! Good job, MATC!"I know the new A.T. Maine guidebook was a fantastic group effort but it should be pointed out that the guide editor is a dedicated trail maintainer, trail angel, and WhiteBlaze's own "WalkinHome." Way to go, Ray! :clap

Youngblood

01-13-2005, 10:26

When you say guidebook, do you mean the databook or the section guidebooks? The section guidebooks have great info, but they are laid out in a way that can be cockeyed even for a section hiker.

I agree about the data in the companion, I just don't like the way it is laid out. I liked the way the older Thru-Hiker's guide was laid out but wan't always happy with the depth of information at this guide.
Besides the AT, I have thru-hiked other 75 to 100+ mile trails in the SE and it is a struggle to use info that is segmented for day hikes or shorter sections. I have many times had to get a calculator out and rewrite the continuous mileages in margins and make other notes so I could plan the hike and have a somewhat useable guide while I was hiking the hike and really couldn't understand why the author didn't do this. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate good information, I would just prefer that it is organized in a manner that accomodates how I want to use it... and if I'm thru-hiking I would prefer that it is organized in a thru-hiker friendly way.

Youngblood

Skyline

01-13-2005, 11:47

Besides the AT, I have thru-hiked other 75 to 100+ mile trails in the SE and it is a struggle to use info that is segmented for day hikes or shorter sections. I have many times had to get a calculator out and rewrite the continuous mileages in margins and make other notes so I could plan the hike and have a somewhat useable guide while I was hiking the hike and really couldn't understand why the author didn't do this. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate good information, I would just prefer that it is organized in a manner that accomodates how I want to use it... and if I'm thru-hiking I would prefer that it is organized in a thru-hiker friendly way.

Youngblood

Youngblood, no doubt you are referring to the guidebook for the Foothills Trail. Lots of info, but laid out in a way guaranteed to frustrate anyone trying to plan a thru-hike. Most of the A.T. guidebooks (the section guides officially sanctioned by ATC) are more straightforward and easier to follow.

SGT Rock

01-13-2005, 12:18

I would agree to a point. The problem I have with the AT section books are the way every section repeats the end data for the sections if you are following me. Like I only need to know how to get to Fontanna Dam parking once, I don't need the exact same info in two different chapters. Also, the section data is laid out twice, once in one direction, and once in the other. I would prefer it was set up just once, but like the Databook, with milage north from a point in a colum on one side of the page, and milage south from a point on the other side of the page. The section books give more water and landmark info than the Databook, Companion, or Thru-Hiker book, stuff that would be nice to know IMHO, but doesn't make the cut for the other three books. I know how I would lay out a guidebook if I were to write one, but I will never do that.

Youngblood

01-13-2005, 12:44

Youngblood, no doubt you are referring to the guidebook for the Foothills Trail. Lots of info, but laid out in a way guaranteed to frustrate anyone trying to plan a thru-hike. Most of the A.T. guidebooks (the section guides officially sanctioned by ATC) are more straightforward and easier to follow.
The Guide to the Foothills Trail was layed out in a very different way that required rewriting the continuous mileages and learning how it was organised. In the last few years there have been a few guides for these SE trails that are layed out in thru-hiker friendly style, but I hiked some of these before with the 5 to 10 mile section descriptions.

I also agree with you that the Thru-Hikers Companion and Appalachian Trail Databook are not difficult to use, but they are not as easy as they could be. I still like the idea of one book (smallish) that has continuous mileages with integrated trail, services and town information with the mileage markers included with the services and town section if that section is seperate.

The topo maps that have the trail info on them are also appreciated.

weary

01-13-2005, 14:22

I find the best single guide to the trail are the mostly yearly editions of Wingfoot's "The Thru-Hiker's Handbook," since it contains pretty good information and maps about the trailside towns, and all the important information from ATC's Data Book.

I find the state by state guides compiled by the maintaining clubs and sold by ATC useful for planning and for gaining information about the trail not available anywhere else. Life is short. One should not waste time reinventing the wheel. Wise hikers will make use of all the information available and try to build on that knowledge.

I carried the state by state guides in 1993. I doubt that I would again. But I would certainly carry notes on interesting things not documented anywhere else in my pack materials.

Keep in mind that the sale of the state guides are a major fundraising source for ATC and the maintaining clubs. MATC earns about $25,000 a year from the sale of the guides to ATC for resale to hikers, and the direct sale of the Maine Guide to hikers. We prefer the latter.

The profits from these sales represent about 15 percent of our entire $170,000 annual budget. Trail guide sales bring in three time more income than dues, for instance.

I went to press today with the Winter edition of the MAINEtainer, the MATC membership newsletter. It contains a catalog of all the items the club sells to provide the money needed to keep the trail in Maine among the best maintained along the entire 2,174 miles.

If you were a member, you would be getting in a few days a catalog of all the valuable things the club offers, along with a summary of all the trail maintenance accomplished in 2004. What a bargain? Only $15. And it helps keep the trail alive and in good condition in Maine. No where else will you find fascinating stories and photos of the razing of an ancient log cabin on Church Pond, a couple of miles north of the Cooper Brook Leanto, or a pictorial account of the critical role of wood chips in making a composting toilet work.

You can reach Barbara Clark, our membership chair by writing to:

Maine Appalachian Trail Club
PO Box 1256
Auburn, Maine 04211,

Just include a note and a check for $15. Do it quickly and we will send you this unusually valuable edition.

Weary

Slim

03-13-2005, 18:24

I've just started planning my hike. I see reference to "Wingfoot's Thru Hiker Handbook". Where does one purchase one of these? Thanks.

TJ aka Teej

03-13-2005, 19:19

I've just started planning my hike. I see reference to "Wingfoot's Thru Hiker Handbook". Where does one purchase one of these? Thanks.
Welcome to WhiteBlaze, Slim. If you choose not to use the ATC's DataBook and Thru-hiker's Companion, available through the ATC's online Trailstore at http://www.atctrailstore.org/ with profits benefiting the Appalachian Trail, you can purchase the other book by sending a check, made out to Dan Bruce (very oddly, if you make the check out to The Center for Appalchian Trail Studies, the check will be returned) to an address found on the Trailplace dot com website.

weary

03-13-2005, 19:27

I've just started planning my hike. I see reference to "Wingfoot's Thru Hiker Handbook". Where does one purchase one of these? Thanks.
Open:
http://www.trailplace.com/portal/display.php?page=hb_order_check_2005

My recommendation is to buy the best combination of information and total backpack weight. If you want to also make a contribution to the trail, contact the Appalachian Trail Conference. The comments on WhiteBlaze seem to prefer Wingfoot, but both books have their useful points.

Of course our Maine Appalachian Trail Land Trust can also use funds as we struggle to make a payment on the $200,000 loan we took out to protect the wild summit of Abraham and the southern slopes of Saddleback in Maine.

www.matlt.org

Weary