Samuel H. Gardner's All In Trek - Hike Over

[Captain Blue]

Today I made a very hard decision. I have chosen to leave the trail to seek medical care.

From: http://www.theinitiativesite.com/journal/

[hobbs]

Wasn't he hiking with someone else captain? What happened to them on the trail?

[Attila]

Well, at least he was out there hiking for two months, while I was going to work every day........

[Tuckahoe]

Samual had a friend hiking with him until about January 30th. I think we all knew that he bit off more than he could handle, nonetheless, I enjoyed following his trek and was hoping the best for him.

[Bearpaw]

Good call on his part.

If he chooses another long trek, he will have a much more realistic frame of reference for goals and the means to get there.

[ki0eh]

He had an interesting journey through difficult weather. The FLT system is under-rated by those who haven't been there. I would say under the circumstances he's stuck it out longer than most folks would with the health and weather circumstances. The over-selling is unfortunate, of course it was true in Biblical times as today that pride comes before the fall.

[Del Q]

Yes, too bad for Samuel, I have been e mailing with him and reading his daily entries, not to pass judgement but I would have started on the PCT or CDT down South and got miles under my belt, to start in HEAVY snow, having to walk with snowshoes at the start of a 12,500 mile hike to me did not make sense. The earliest comments on WhiteBlaze turned out to be right, that he will not complete these 4 trails in one year.

Tried to encourage him a month ago to head to Mexico and hike North in the sunshine for a bit, even offered to pay his airfare.

He is one tough guy, has my respect, living & snowshoeing in sub freezing weather for this amount of time must be brutal.

If you read his journal, he also had some very tough mental hits the last few weeks.

Hiking in pain is not fun or smart if there is a serious underlying issue, I came off the trail a few days early in September, every step was really painful, right knee was "shreaded" as per Dr comments and MRI, could have really messed myself up, at 52 years old, healing is not that simple or quick, am JUST NOW ready to get back out there, and it still hurts.

Samuel was sufferring for weeks with right hip pain and made a smart and responsible decision, my bet is that we have not heard the last of Samuel Gardner!!!

[Slo-go'en]

Yep, hate to see someones dreams squashed by reality. I do admire him for sticking it out as long as he did.

[Thatguy]

I do wish Sam Gardner all the luck in the world. Right now he needs time to heal all his physical and emotional wounds. Getting off the trail was probably a VERY difficult decision for him. I had to quit the AT last year because of a back injury and struggled to accept it. I bet after he heals he'll be back on the trail. I'm sure this is just a bit of a set back for him. I'm sure he'll return just as I'm returning to the AT in a few weeks

[Del Q]

Hi Thatguy, getting old has its downside, seems like every section hike leaves me with another ailment to resolve, back, knee, feet, etc.

Guess we get like old cars where something is always a bit broken.

[Thatguy]

Hi Thatguy, getting old has its downside, seems like every section hike leaves me with another ailment to resolve, back, knee, feet, etc.

Guess we get like old cars where something is always a bit broken.

Hey Del Q

I agree with you physically. The trail looks a bit different as you age. Not REALLY interested in setting any records just enjoying it more. What's that old saying "Old enough to know better, but young enough not to care."

[Pedaling Fool]

I guess he should have spent more time hiking rather than sitting around for 6 months in a snow cave.

[Toolshed]

He hiked by our summer place a few days ago. I had told him I would get up there to meet him, but forgot about the Florida week we booked in Disneyworld. (Obviously Disney and FL aren't really ever on my mind)

I will say this, I was a critic. a naysayer. Having spent many years hiking/snowshoeing in the ADKs and on the FLT in all seasons, he lasted a lot longer than I thought he would. I also have to give him leeway for mental stability after hearing his friend died in late February in a car crash back home....
Good Luck Samuel - Wherever you land....

[SamXp]

Unfortunate, but Bearpaw makes a good point in that he'll be a lot more prepared for his next attempt as a result of his experiences.

[mweinstone]

good luck sammy. youll be back. sorry about your friend.

[runnergirl]

I'm pulling for Samuel. I believe he won't let this stop his dream to hike these trails; I don't think the time frame is as important as the completion. But I do believe that we will hear from him again!

[Del Q]

With all due respect, I do think that he could have been better prepared. Early equipment issues, pre-hike conditioning, etc.

Tough guy, has all of my respect, the last 60 days has shown us NASTY weather, cold, snow etc in the NE.............I would have chosen the Long Trail + the Big tree, North Country Trail was a stretch best case.

Has anyone done the AT, LT, CDT and PCT in 365 days?

[RGB]

He's got a lot of humble pie to eat. Like so much. He should buy a couple rolls of saran wrap before he starts.

[fiddlehead]

This is sad news.
I enjoyed his writings and following his journey.
Although he had a lot of roadwalking, most of his trail time was on snowshoes with heavy tent, sleeping gear and winter clothes.
That pack must've weighed at least 50 lbs and snowshoeing with that weight would break most people.
I agree we haven't heard the last from him.

Good writer too.
Good luck Sam.

[XCskiNYC]

He gave a winter weight including snow shoes and everything of 31.8 lbs. He subtracted a 21.4 oz bivy and added a tent of 2.5 lbs (Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2) and an extra sleeping bag of indeterminate weight (let's say 3 lbs). So before food and water he was under 35 including the snow shoes (4.4 lbs) and hiking poles (1 lb), so he was carrying about 30 on his back before food and water. Actually, his shoes, heavy-duty winter hiking socks, and gators totaled 3.4 lbs so he really had 26.6 on his back before food and water.

[stranger]

Well I think we all knew this was going to happen, but I agree that staying out there for 2 months, during January and Feburary, in upstate NY is a huge accomplishment. I've spent many nights in the Catskills during that time of year, and had a hard time managing 3 days in that weather, so he gets my respect.

Personally, I don't understand why someone would do the NCT first, especially in winter, it's a logistical nightmare, incomplete and has many miles of road walking. Perhaps a start at Springer Mountain would have made more sense, maybe not.

Anyhow, all props to Sam for attempting this, and I agree he'll probably be back.

[Lone Wolf]

low mile days, days off and lots of motel and private home nights eating home cooked meals

[sly dog]

Kinda knew it would be an injury to end the hike. I know most people here including myself knew he wouldn't be able do complete what he set out to do but it was fun watching someone wake up to the reality of LDH. Not putting him down but with no experiance what outcome could be expected. I hope next time he tries this he sets a realistic timetable.

[DAJA]

Kids solid as a rock in my book.. Look forward to him healing up and hitting the trail again..

[10-K]

The only criticism I have about the entire endeavor is that I think he should have toned down the self-promotion / hype - but that's just me.

As far as I can tell, his hike didn't affect my life at all.

[weary]

....As far as I can tell, his hike didn't affect my life at all.
Nor mine. He had so slipped my mind, that I had to pause a moment trying to remember just who Samual Gardner might be, and why I might be interested.

[WI_Mike]

I was struck by that too. One other person used the phrase "couch surfing." How much is too much for someone who's not a pro like Skurka? I'd kind of expect some of it, but kind of would be every night at times. Then again it is winter and I don't think he was skimping on the miles.

I think it's so hard to divorce his (unrealistic) goals/ambition from judgments about what he's trying to do. I think if he'd toned down the ambition, set a reasonable timetable and done some preparation people might have taken a different view. If you go non stop you're going to hit snow (in some cases, a lot of snow). I wonder if the Florida Trail would have made more sense in the winter months instead of, and a good way to start out (Florida's pretty flat).


low mile days, days off and lots of motel and private home nights eating home cooked meals

[Captain Blue]

On January 1st of 2011, I will set out on a 12,500+ mile “All-In Trek” to establish a new record of unassisted ultra-light long-distance backpacking. It will be the first ever, attempt of the “All-In Trek”. This involves solo hiking the four longest hiking trails in the United States, back-to-back continuously without any time off. It is my goal to complete this trek in one year.

solo hiking - Nope.

continuously without any time off - Nope.

unassisted - Nope.

one year - Nope.

establish a new record - Nope.

[fiddlehead]

I remember the pain and suffering of my first thru-hike.

I thought it was really hard physically.
To put that heavy pack on every time and go up and down those mountains. (often in pain and sometimes perhaps even wondering why I am doing this)

My 2nd and 3rd time, I don't even remember anything being hard physically>
I believe you have to teach your body what it is going to be doing, get some muscles built up, teach yourself how to do a 10 mile uphill without a rest, and go further and further between breaks, water sources, resupply.

For a first timer to get over the pain and suffering, and still achieve goals that were too unrealistic is possible, but highly improbable.

Still Sam was a good writer and I enjoyed his posts and pictures.

I also think that he will be back, more prepared, and will have a more realistic goal next time.
I look forward to that time.

[Toolshed]

solo hiking - Nope.

continuously without any time off - Nope.

unassisted - Nope.

one year - Nope.

establish a new record - Nope.
But remember... we were all probably romantics or idealists about at least something at that age in our lives. :)

[Turtle Feet]

I think being home will also help him re-evaluate his strategy; it's difficult sometimes to see the forest for the trees.

Just by being out there on the trail he's learned so much - it's going to make his future planning so much more realistic. I know I learned alot from him and his experience for my upcoming hike.

Thanks Sam! Maybe I will see you on the AT yet this year...

tf

[Pedaling Fool]

At that age the only thing I romantisized about was killing a commy for mommy:sun

[WI_Mike]

Doing those 4 trails would be an accomplishment enough, but without promising he'd do it in the year, even fewer people would have paid much attention. Kind of a catch 22 in that regard. And I'm amazed as all the hotels, gear purchases, eat outs, etc... had to add up fast to a lot of $$$.

[Captain Blue]

I first came across Samuel Gardner's "All In Trek" web site on March 1, 2010. Seems to me he had ample time to figure out what was ahead of him and to shed some naivety.

[hobbs]

I agree with 10k doesn't affect me in anyway. The self promotion is what got me.He could have done it.If he looked objectively at his own statements and had a better plan.

[Camping Dave]

He's a kid whose knowledge lagged his enthusiasm, and he tried, and learned something. So good for him. And you know something? Everybody here (me included) read about him whereas he neither knows nor cares about us. So double good for him.

[Sly]

Has anyone done the AT, LT, CDT and PCT in 365 days?

Trauma hiked the so-called ECT (Key West to Cape Gaspe) and PCT, CDT in less than a year.

Just browsing his website he'll be attempting to hike 2500 miles in the Himalayas from the easternmost 8000m peak to the westernmost 8000m peak.

http://justinlichter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ProfileChinpaoMapline.jpg


http://justinlichter.com/


http://justinlichter.com/?attachment_id=475

How high can the bar be raised??

[10-K]

http://justinlichter.com/?attachment_id=475

How high can the bar be raised??

First person to hike to the moon (unassisted of course...).

[SwitchbackVT]

And you know something? Everybody here (me included) read about him whereas he neither knows nor cares about us. So double good for him.

Actually, he is a member here, and chimed in during one of the previous threads written about him.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=980511#post980511

[Sickmont]

How high can the bar be raised??

Reminds me of a George Carlin news headline joke......"A man attempting to walk around the Earth DROWN today....."

[WI_Mike]

This guy walked the entire Amazon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVSCjOfbwOA&feature=channel_video_title

[Camping Dave]

Actually, he is a member here, and chimed in during one of the previous threads written about him.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=980511#post980511

2 posts a year ago. Ok. Like I said, WhiteBlaze spent a lot more time following him than he spent following WhiteBlaze.

[WingedMonkey]

This guy walked the entire Amazon.

And he "thought" he would do it in a year. It took him 860 days.

[Dogwood]

Trauma hiked the so-called ECT (Key West to Cape Gaspe) and PCT, CDT in less than a year.

Just browsing his website he'll be attempting to hike 2500 miles in the Himalayas from the easternmost 8000m peak to the westernmost 8000m peak.

http://justinlichter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ProfileChinpaoMapline.jpg


http://justinlichter.com/


http://justinlichter.com/?attachment_id=475

How high can the bar be raised??


From what I imagine, I would say the Great Himalayan Trail in Nepal, BUT linking 5 countries, would rank as one, if not the hardest, thru-hikes. The logistics, language barriers, and costs seem phenominal!

Second hardest thru-hike is the Te Ararora in New Zealand encompensing full treks through the north and south islands with multiple opportunities for lengthy side treks.

I'm referring only to complete thru-hikes.

[stranger]

From what I imagine, I would say the Great Himalayan Trail in Nepal, BUT linking 5 countries, would rank as one, if not the hardest, thru-hikes. The logistics, language barriers, and costs seem phenominal!

Second hardest thru-hike is the Te Ararora in New Zealand encompensing full treks through the north and south islands with multiple opportunities for lengthy side treks.

I'm referring only to complete thru-hikes.

Te Araroa will be far from one of the worlds hardest thru-hikes, when complete every kilometer will be marked, on established trails, with signage.

What do you mean by hardest? Physically? Logistically? I've hiked about a third of what Te Araroa will eventually be, and it would be nowhere as challenging as something like the CDT, NCT, in my opinion.

If anything Te Araroa is most challenging right now, as it's a broken trail in dozens of places with some harsh bush to get around, once complete, it will be a challenging thru-hike, but nothing like what Lichter and Skurka are doing, not even close.

[RITBlake]

And there it is.....


solo hiking - Nope.

continuously without any time off - Nope.

unassisted - Nope.

one year - Nope.

establish a new record - Nope.

[stranger]

I would really think about this if I was Sam:

Goal: I wanted to hike the Triple Crown, plus the North Country Trail in 12 months, that works out to (roughly) 1000+ miles per month, or 250 miles per week, which means 35.7 miles per day

Reality: I was on the trail for two months and never got out of New York, I never hiked a single 35 mile day, in fact I was doing 8-15 mile days.

I would ask myself...WHY?

In answering the 'why' question, he will be better prepared for his next trip, which will inevitably be far more realistic and achievable for someone of his calibur.

Personally, I would have bet against Lichter and Skurka making this trip, anyday of the week, let alone Sam.

He tried, and that's cool

[takethisbread]

This lifestyle is more about dealing with discomfort and defeat than ability.

He was enthusiastic as we all are in our minds.

"I want to sleep beneath peaceful skies in my lovers bed,
With a wide open country in my eyes and these romantic dreams in my head", Springsteen once wrote on the promise of growing up in America.

The romantic notion of these long journeys often is so great, that it is hard to measure
Up to.

He broke his cherry in that respect.

[the goat]

who is samuel gardner?

[weary]

who is samuel gardner?
If you need to ask, you'll never know!

[stranger]

This lifestyle is more about dealing with discomfort and defeat than ability.

He was enthusiastic as we all are in our minds.

"I want to sleep beneath peaceful skies in my lovers bed,
With a wide open country in my eyes and these romantic dreams in my head", Springsteen once wrote on the promise of growing up in America.

The romantic notion of these long journeys often is so great, that it is hard to measure
Up to.

He broke his cherry in that respect.

I know the song well : )

[XCskiNYC]

who is samuel gardner?

The long-lost cousin of Chauncy Gardner

[Cheese Head]

Props to the dude for getting out there. Better than sitting home and sniping from ones couch.

[Captain Blue]

For a little bit of the Samuel Gardner's pre-hike publicity read here:


Going for a long walk takes on a new meaning…
http://blog.cheaptents.com/all-in-trek-samuel-gardner-interview/


HIKING – Samuel H Gardner the next Skurka?
http://besthike.wordpress.com/2010/09/08/hiking-samuel-h-gardner-the-next-skurka/

[4eyedbuzzard]

Big talk, big plans, big promotion - damn little hiking. A LOT more effort, planning, and preparation was expended on promotion, publicity, and attention seeking than on hiking.

Lesson to be learned: Hike first, brag later.

[pafarmboy]

So approx. how many miles did he hike in 65 days?

[4eyedbuzzard]

So approx. how many miles did he hike in 65 days?
Hard to calculate "trail miles". About 370 or so via roads paralleling his hike between Crown Point and where he stopped west of Hornell. So probably somewhere around 450 plus or minus. That would work out to about 7 miles per day which kind of jives with his journaled mileage reports.

[Big Dawg]

Props to the dude for getting out there. Better than sitting home and sniping from ones couch.

yeah,, no doubt

[Tilly]

For a little bit of the Samuel Gardner's pre-hike publicity read here:


Going for a long walk takes on a new meaning…
http://blog.cheaptents.com/all-in-trek-samuel-gardner-interview/


HIKING – Samuel H Gardner the next Skurka?
http://besthike.wordpress.com/2010/09/08/hiking-samuel-h-gardner-the-next-skurka/

The prehike publicity was bad. The..."This will be only the second time the NCT will be thru hiked in the winter..." You can't lay a claim on something until you've actually done it. You can't be the next Skurka until you've actually become the next Skurka. Even AS started out by thruhiking the AT, not by circumnavigating AK.

It's great to have an online journal and such, but the promotion and the proclamations and expectations that were put up before he even set foot out the door...

[SassyWindsor]

A lot of us already knew this guy was no "Iron Will", not by a long shot. I hope supporters of this guy didn't lose too much and just call it having a good time with a good laugh. I knew he was in trouble when he first opened his mouth about setting a record, an unobtainable one, especially an unsupported one. Even with no obligations and lack of money this kind of trip would be hard to attempt or even calculate. Unsupported, this trip would take even the most experienced hiker a couple of years +. A well supported trip could narrow the time frame, but I would still hesitate to wager anyone doing it in 12 months. To be frank, I'm surprised this guy lasted 2 months.

[Captain Blue]

So probably somewhere around 450 plus or minus.

Minus the 20-30 mile car ride into Rome, NY.

[Captain Blue]

The latest and probably last entry in Sam's journal for a while ....

Alright here is the new plan. This hip injury is going to take time to heal 100% so that it does not return when I start hiking again. I do not like taking so much time off of the trail so I am going to call this a failed attempt and move on. In the next 9 months I will heal and prepare for my second attempt next January 1, 2012. Same start location, same plan. However I am using what I learned to make my next attempt better and stronger. A lesson lived is a lesson learned.

[SwitchbackVT]

I didn't expect that outcome. When he mentioned having a "new plan" i thought he may be considering starting the AT or something (with less snow), then finishing his current trail later. The guy must be extremely bummed, but at least he's still he's not letting this year's failed attempt detract him from his overall goal. I wish him the best of luck in his future endeavours.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Alright here is the new plan. . .Same start location, same plan. - Sam Gardner

:-? :confused:



Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - A. Einstein

I bet against him. :D :banana

[XCskiNYC]

So approx. how many miles did he hike in 65 days?


Minus the 20-30 mile car ride into Rome, NY.


Samuel H. Gardner's mileage divides into two major sections:


1) the road mileage from Crown Point, NY to Rome, NY (30 miles of which he already admits to having yellow-blazed and it appears he may have covered much more of it in a car if you look at all the zero days and days in this period -- Day 1 through Day 9 -- for which he gives either no journal entry or no mileage): 140 miles.

2) a series of trails between Rome, NY and Hornell, NY on the Erie Canalside State Park, the Link Trail, the Onandaga Trail, and a section of the Finger Lakes Trail: 322.7

Grand Total: 462.7

Total Days Out: 64

MPD based on Grand Total divided by total days on trail: 7.22 mpd


Mileage Sources:

Crown Point to Rome, 140 miles. Measured out in Google Earth following the road route Gardner himself describes and also based on the point on NY8 near Bakers Mills where his Google Latitude tracker was stuck for several days. Also used this map from cnyhiking.com showing the proposed route of the North Country Trail (NCT) through Adironodack Preserve:

http://www.cnyhiking.com/NCT-AdirondackPark.htm


Rome to Canestota, NY: 19.7 miles. The Erie Canalside State Park. Very linear with a curve or two, lending itself to accurate measurement in Google Earth. Gardner oddly gives a mileage of about 34, including 10, 10, and 10 for three days in a row. I carefully checked the journal entries to see if he was attributing the same mileage to more than one day but it's clear he's talking about distinct days all with the mileage of 10. This gives confirmation of the lack of accuracy in his mileage statements, a lack of accuracy one would suspect already due to the round figures Gardner uses.


Link Trail. From the beginning at Canestota to the junction with the Onandaga Trail, 40.4 miles.

http://www.cnyhiking.com/LinkTrail.htm


Onandaga Trail, from end of Link Trail to Junction with Finger Lakes Trail (FLT), 41.8 miles.

http://www.cnyhiking.com/OnondagaTrail.htm


FLT from Mile 372.7 (intersection with Onandaga Trail) to Mile 151.9 (Hornell, NY), 220.8 miles.

http://www.cnyhiking.com/FLT-MileByMile.htm

[XCskiNYC]

I interpreted the written trail descriptions as saying the NCT from Canastota runs from start to end of Link Trail thence start to end of Onandaga Trail. This is not the case as an examination of the trail maps has shown. The NCT runs down the Link to Mile 25.4., not to the end at 40.4 as stated in my previous post (the Link also junctions with the FLT, but it's clear from points mentioned in the journal, such as Highland County Park, that he took the Onandaga Trail which is the actual NCT route). At 25.4 on the Link, the Onandaga begins and runs to its end at the FLT junction, so that mileage remains the same. So my original Link Trail mileage is 15.0 too high, leading to the following numbers:

Trail-section total (Rome to Hornell): 307.7

Grand Total 447.7

Miles per day: 6.99.

[WI_Mike]

OK I just don't get it. Not only is he going to try this again (which is fine), but he's going try it in winter again and start over from the beginning? Why not: a) pick up where you left off and b) adjust your goals and timeline to match what you've learned you can (and cannot) accomplish?

Of course, 9 months is a ways off. I hope by that time he modifies his plans to match up with reality.

It's really great that he has health insurance right now, though!(?)

[sbhikes]

He can't start where he left off because it's not his goal to see those trails, it's his goal to hike all of them in a year. There's a big difference.

I know people who have never seen Oregon and Washington on the PCT because their goal has always been to thru-hike, not just to see the whole trail. They try over and over again.

[Sickmont]

I know people who have never seen Oregon and Washington on the PCT because their goal has always been to thru-hike, not just to see the whole trail. They try over and over again.

Southern Cali must get really boring after a while then.

[Tinker]

He had an interesting journey through difficult weather. The FLT system is under-rated by those who haven't been there. I would say under the circumstances he's stuck it out longer than most folks would with the health and weather circumstances. The over-selling is unfortunate, of course it was true in Biblical times as today that pride comes before the fall.
Often misquoted (or paraphrased) Bible verse (especially so in my own church, or so it seems).
Pride goes (goeth) before destruction, and a
haughty spirit before a fall (King James Version Proverbs 16:18).
Same basic outcome, though. :)

[XCskiNYC]

OK I just don't get it. Not only is he going to try this again (which is fine), but he's going try it in winter again and start over from the beginning? Why not: a) pick up where you left off and b) adjust your goals and timeline to match what you've learned you can (and cannot) accomplish?

Of course, 9 months is a ways off. I hope by that time he modifies his plans to match up with reality.

It's really great that he has health insurance right now, though!(?)


He's attributing his failure to the "injury." Personally I'm skeptical about the injury because nothing showed up on x-ray and all his medical care now is based on his own description of how it feels. So it's largely a self-diagnosis.

You have to wonder if this guy, what with his "lessons lived are lessons learned" motto (though there's another motto that an Eagle Scout should know: Be Prepared), could really be banging on so few mental cylinders as to attempt to repeat this stunt.

If he finds a hiking partner with equal ambition, then that might give him a chance, but I still doubt he has the underlying drive to even finish the NCT, even if he had somebody along to keep him company.

He's no solo hiker. Unless he gets a partner, he's going to depend on a series of locals putting him up as he makes his way down the trail. Not because he can't feed himself, but because he can't keep himself company. Being alone is a huge strain on this guy. But you can't set a hiking record if you're spending all your time getting taxied off to hot meals and warm beds (nor is any accomplishment going to be taken very seriously if it's a glorified house and garden tour). To set a record, you need to stay in the woods, where the trail is.

[WI_Mike]

Yes, but even he I think is now aware that the whole 1 year thing is a total illusion, and doing the 4 trails back to back is completely impossible due to snow. I'm assuming much of the PCT isn't even accessible in some of the year so even if he hadn't been forced to stop due to physical ailments, the snow would put a stop to it. So I guess I don't see the point of not just picking up where he left off at this point, because he'll never be able to do this without stopping anyway.


He can't start where he left off because it's not his goal to see those trails, it's his goal to hike all of them in a year. There's a big difference.

I know people who have never seen Oregon and Washington on the PCT because their goal has always been to thru-hike, not just to see the whole trail. They try over and over again.

[Slo-go'en]

Yes, but even he I think is now aware that the whole 1 year thing is a total illusion, and doing the 4 trails back to back is completely impossible due to snow.

Since he says he is going to start again at the same place, at the same time, I guess he is not aware and is still under a delusion. If he learned anything, it should have been you can't do big miles in the winter on snowshoes and therefore he needs to start someplace else, like at Springer where he has at least a little bit of a chance.

[SwitchbackVT]

If he learned anything, it should have been you can't do big miles in the winter on snowshoes and therefore he needs to start someplace else, like at Springer where he has at least a little bit of a chance.


I completely agree.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Since he says he is going to start again at the same place, at the same time, I guess he is not aware and is still under a delusion. If he learned anything, it should have been you can't do big miles in the winter on snowshoes and therefore he needs to start someplace else, like at Springer where he has at least a little bit of a chance.


I completely agree.

Yeah, but . . . So if he NOBO's the AT at speed hiking pace, that puts him hiking in VT, NH, and ME in late Feb and thru the month of March. Anyone want to try that? At the 34 mpd pace he proposes he'd hit Glencliff in late Feb. If he thought road walking and snowshoeing the FLT in NY was tough in Jan, well, he's got some more lessons he'll be learning.

[SwitchbackVT]

Yeah, but . . . So if he NOBO's the AT at speed hiking pace, that puts him hiking in VT, NH, and ME in late Feb and thru the month of March. Anyone want to try that? At the 34 mpd pace he proposes he'd hit Glencliff in late Feb. If he thought road walking and snowshoeing the FLT in NY was tough in Jan, well, he's got some more lessons he'll be learning.

Good point, hell no i wouldn't want to! :eek:

Justin Lichter started on the International AT southbound when he did the triple crown in under a year though, starting Novermber 1st in Quebec. That dude is a mileage machine, and it still took him 356 days, at 28.1 per day (and 26 zero days).

[Toolshed]

Posted 3/13 on his site:

Alright here is the new plan. This hip injury is going to take time to heal 100% so that it does not return when I start hiking again. I do not like taking so much time off of the trail so I am going to call this a failed attempt and move on. In the next 9 months I will heal and prepare for my second attempt next January 1, 2012. Same start location, same plan. However I am using what I learned to make my next attempt better and stronger. A lesson lived is a lesson learned.
In the next 9 months I will spend my time healing/training and working some sort of seasonal job to raise funds for my next attempt. I have already sent out several inquiries for work and am waiting to hear back. I am trying to look at this situation not as a failure but as another challenge. No doubt, you can imagine that I feel “bummed” to say the least. However there is no point in wasting my time being bummed and negative. My drive is still strong and I still believe I can do this trek so I’m going to do whatever I can to do it.
I’ll continue posting updates. However they probably wont be daily due to the fact that my home life is not nearly as interesting as on the trail. If anyone knows of an available job prosect- please shoot me an email at [email protected].
-------------------

[XCskiNYC]

He sounded a little homesick for a lot of his trip.

Day 15 -- "We were joking about the weather and how we should just go home and sauna already."

Day 36 -- "It was an odd feeling going back out on the trail. Both excited to get back to walking but also had a sense of “leaving”. It’s an odd life living out of a backpack and being constantly on the move. Never staying long in one place. It is both exciting and unnerving. I reckon it will take some getting use to it."

Day 62 -- "If theres one thing this journey has taught me, it’s the value of that word “home”. It’s different for everyone but equally important. I can’t imagine not having a place to call home. I feel sorry for those people. "


Maybe what he's saying now is a gradual way to introduce the idea of giving up for good (at least on the four-trail mega-trek), just like the way he said on Day 63 he was taking a week off and then on Day 64 he was taking nine months off.

Or he might feel emotionally toughened up, like he's ready to deal with being away from home, family and friends.

[stranger]

The plan is unrealistic, even if he starts at Springer on 1 January, and he is able to hike 20-30 miles per day, which he has not demonstrated he can do, but lets say he can do that...average 25/day, that puts him in New England towards the end of Febuary or into early March, where he will be stopped due to weather in all likelyhood.

Can't realistically start either the PCT or CDT those times of year if he plans on going through...

And if he goes with the NCT, he is probably only going to average low double digits anyhow...remember he didn't hurt himself by pulling 30 mile days, he hurt himself hiking single digit days.

I for one believe this trip is impossible, it cannot be done in 12 months, it's simply too much mileage considering the weather conditions, as others have said and I said on another thread...It took Lichter 356 days to hike 10,000 miles, about 28 miles per day. Samuel wants to hike 12,500 miles in 365 days, which is 34 miles per day. I don't believe Andrew Skurka has ever 'averaged' 34-35 miles a day for more than a few weeks at best, and I believe that was the PCT during fairly normal hiking conditions.

And Samel hurt his hip snowshoeing 9 mile days, I don't mean to disrespect anyone here...but perhaps delusional was a good word to use.

More power to him if he tries again...I think a much smarter plan would be to block out 2 years, have $30,000 in the bank, and have some strategic plans on how to deal with the weather over winter.





His plan

[takethisbread]

its impossible with a pack. simply. 35 miles a day is impossible on these trails in the winter time. I doubt Georgia through Damascus is possible for that kind of mileage if he started there. there will be significant snow in the Park. Heavy snow on the Northern section of the AT into Mid April. i hope he rethinks this stupid idea. do one trail first.

I am guessing we never hear from this guy again. deep down he knows he cant do it.

[WI_Mike]

Yes you said what I've been trying to say. It just can't be done. I went snowshoeing this weekend in northern WI and with deep snow you feel like you're going 2-3 times further than you actually are. Took me like 4 hours to go about 3 miles. Granted if I was in better shape it might have been easier. But this was 1-2 foot deep snow. If you have more than that it would be really tough. But I can see what Sam's problem is. Probably overusing one side and that gets really sore. Anyway, so 9 miles a day snowshoeing in deep snow I'll admit is probably not too bad and can really take a toll, but that's kind of the point, and it might have made sense to instead include some warm weather trails in the south/southwest for this endeavor for those colder months.


The plan is unrealistic, even if he starts at Springer on 1 January, and he is able to hike 20-30 miles per day, which he has not demonstrated he can do, but lets say he can do that...average 25/day, that puts him in New England towards the end of Febuary or into early March, where he will be stopped due to weather in all likelyhood.

Can't realistically start either the PCT or CDT those times of year if he plans on going through...

And if he goes with the NCT, he is probably only going to average low double digits anyhow...remember he didn't hurt himself by pulling 30 mile days, he hurt himself hiking single digit days.

I for one believe this trip is impossible, it cannot be done in 12 months, it's simply too much mileage considering the weather conditions, as others have said and I said on another thread...It took Lichter 356 days to hike 10,000 miles, about 28 miles per day. Samuel wants to hike 12,500 miles in 365 days, which is 34 miles per day. I don't believe Andrew Skurka has ever 'averaged' 34-35 miles a day for more than a few weeks at best, and I believe that was the PCT during fairly normal hiking conditions.

And Samel hurt his hip snowshoeing 9 mile days, I don't mean to disrespect anyone here...but perhaps delusional was a good word to use.

More power to him if he tries again...I think a much smarter plan would be to block out 2 years, have $30,000 in the bank, and have some strategic plans on how to deal with the weather over winter.





His plan

[Tilly]

Posted 3/13 on his site:

Alright here is the new plan. This hip injury is going to take time to heal 100% so that it does not return when I start hiking again. I do not like taking so much time off of the trail so I am going to call this a failed attempt and move on. In the next 9 months I will heal and prepare for my second attempt next January 1, 2012. Same start location, same plan. However I am using what I learned to make my next attempt better and stronger. A lesson lived is a lesson learned.
In the next 9 months I will spend my time healing/training and working some sort of seasonal job to raise funds for my next attempt. I have already sent out several inquiries for work and am waiting to hear back. I am trying to look at this situation not as a failure but as another challenge. No doubt, you can imagine that I feel “bummed” to say the least. However there is no point in wasting my time being bummed and negative. My drive is still strong and I still believe I can do this trek so I’m going to do whatever I can to do it.
I’ll continue posting updates. However they probably wont be daily due to the fact that my home life is not nearly as interesting as on the trail. If anyone knows of an available job prosect- please shoot me an email at [email protected].
-------------------

Working some sort of seasonal/temp job for less than 9 months is hardly going to fund hikes of 4 NST Trails, about 12,000 mi+ in lengh probably about 2 years of hiking nonstop, for this kid. This is delusional.

[isawtman]

Hi everyone

I just wanted to give everyone a little background information about the
North Country Trail. There have been only 3 thru hikers of the trail.
They are Ed Talone (1996), Andrew Skurka (2005) and Eb Eberhardt (2009). And only Skurka did the trail in an unassisted manner.

The first person to hike the trail using the section hiking method was Peter Wolfe back in the 1970's and the first woman to completely hike the trail, also using the section hiking method, is Joan Young who completed it in 2010.

Large chunks of the trail have been completed. In 2010 Central Minnesota trail volunteers connected segments in the Chippewa National Forest, Paul Bunyan State Forest and Itasca State Park to create a 136 mile continuous stretch. If you count the Kekekabic Trail, Border Route Trail and Superior Hiking Trail combined, it is a 350 mile continuous stretch. Plus there are several other places with long continuous stretches including the Fingers Lake Trail, Northern Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and the both the UP and SP of Michigan.

This trail is coming together

[Pedaling Fool]

Hi everyone

I just wanted to give everyone a little background information about the
North Country Trail...

Is it true that no part of the NCT can exceed 10% inclination?

[garlic08]

Hi everyone

I just wanted to give everyone a little background information about the
North Country Trail. There have been only 3 thru hikers of the trail.
They are Ed Talone (1996), Andrew Skurka (2005) and Eb Eberhardt (2009). And only Skurka did the trail in an unassisted manner.

Wait a sec, didn't my friend Bart Smith hike it? I looked it up and found this:

In October 2008, Bart Smith completed a 16-year quest to hike all the National Scenic Trails. He was the 9th person to complete the entire length of the NCT. Ed.

It was on this website: http://northcountrytrailnews.blogspot.com/2009/01/bart-smith-warns-northern-arrowhead-is.html

[WI_Mike]

According to the Wikipedia article (this section was written by Joan Young who is the chair of the thru-hikers comittee I believe) Smith did it as section hikes.


Wait a sec, didn't my friend Bart Smith hike it? I looked it up and found this:

In October 2008, Bart Smith completed a 16-year quest to hike all the National Scenic Trails. He was the 9th person to complete the entire length of the NCT. Ed.

It was on this website: http://northcountrytrailnews.blogspot.com/2009/01/bart-smith-warns-northern-arrowhead-is.html

[stranger]

A close friend of mind thru-hiked the North Country Trail back in 98-99, I forget which year...but he's not the type of person to report this type of thing, sign registers, or write on the internet about it (or his other 15,000 miles of hiking)

So those are reported stats only...

Saying that I would love to learn more about the NCT, is there a guidebook to the whole thing?

[isawtman]

A close friend of mind thru-hiked the North Country Trail back in 98-99, I forget which year...but he's not the type of person to report this type of thing, sign registers, or write on the internet about it (or his other 15,000 miles of hiking)

So those are reported stats only...

Saying that I would love to learn more about the NCT, is there a guidebook to the whole thing?

The NCTA has contracted with Ron Strickland to write the Guidebook. Previously there was the Hutchins Guide which were done only on the Sections that the Hutchins had hiked.

And If your friend does not want his hike reported, then please do not report it. Bart Smith did hike the trail in the section hiking method.

Regards from me, Todd McMahon, aka Tman

[stranger]

The NCTA has contracted with Ron Strickland to write the Guidebook. Previously there was the Hutchins Guide which were done only on the Sections that the Hutchins had hiked.

And If your friend does not want his hike reported, then please do not report it. Bart Smith did hike the trail in the section hiking method.

Regards from me, Todd McMahon, aka Tman

Probably why I didn't use his name or reveal any way of identifying him :D

[4eyedbuzzard]

Probably why I didn't use his name or reveal any way of identifying him :D

Yeah, but now we all he's that Anonymous guy that keeps posting annoying posts everywhere on the internet. :D

[isawtman]

Is it true that no part of the NCT can exceed 10% inclination?

I have never heard that about the 10% inclination, and I have personally
hiked parts of it that are pretty steep.

And to "Stranger" saying that someone hiked it and that it is a secret,
if you have no way of proving it, then why bring it up at all.

That's kinda like making a claim after the fact. While Sam has made a claim before the fact, at least he's trying to do something positive. And if Sam cannot do it, then at least he found out for himself and learned a lesson. At least Sam had a goal. There's so many young people running around with no goal, or having a goal of chaos.

[ki0eh]

Is it true that no part of the NCT can exceed 10% inclination?

The standard sustained grade specification is 10%, which may be exceeded for no more than 100 feet, if it is to meet the ideal standard.

Source: Chapter 4, page 31, of http://www.nps.gov/noco/parkmgmt/ncttrailconstructionmanual1.htm

[Toolshed]

Is it true that no part of the NCT can exceed 10% inclination?
There are plenty of spots on the FLT (now part of the NT) that are greater than 10%. Especially when the trail runs E/W and the mountains/hills/eskers/drumlins and other high hill/mountain formations all run N/S.

[stranger]

Yeah, but now we all he's that Anonymous guy that keeps posting annoying posts everywhere on the internet. :D

Well done :)

[ki0eh]

There are plenty of spots on the FLT (now part of the NT) that are greater than 10%. Especially when the trail runs E/W and the mountains/hills/eskers/drumlins and other high hill/mountain formations all run N/S.

It should be noted that the more egregiously non-conforming sections have been or are being redone, the FLT predated the above cited standards but they now have a very active volunteer as "Director of Trail Quality" and she's been going around the system kicking a$$. New routes opened for the Crystal Hills Trail are being held to the NCT standard as well. (Not necessarily where it's marked out on landowners' timber lanes though.)

[4eyedbuzzard]

While Sam has made a claim before the fact, at least he's trying to do something positive. And if Sam cannot do it, then at least he found out for himself and learned a lesson. At least Sam had a goal. There's so many young people running around with no goal, or having a goal of chaos.

Positive: There are a lot of young people who don't quit their jobs to go on a hiking vacation for a year, even if they are disillusioned with their employment and other aspects of the real world. Of those that do go long distance hiking only a handful publicly solicit (panhandle) money to do so - most all work and finance their own hiking vacations. And many make the hard choice to put off hiking to finish school, start a career, raise a family, etc. That is certainly positive. I have a lot of respect for all the thru-hikers who save up their 3, 4, or 5 thousand dollars, go on their hikes, without a lot of bragging and claims of being God's gift to long distance hiking AND also to the downtrodden masses.

Not positive: Only one hiker made grandiose claims of how he is "hiking for those who can't", only one planned inspirational post-hike speaking tours before ever setting foot on a trail, only one was brash enough to suggest he could hike 12,500 miles in a year at a pace of 34 miles per day - all while soliciting money to do so based upon bragging about hiking ability he simply doesn't possess. Only one incorporated a for-profit corporation to fund his hiking vacation. Some may find all that positive, I don't. I think the whole production is a crock. It's not about goal setting - it's all about attention seeking and trying to figure out a way to profit as an inspirational hiking guru. The only wrench in the works is that you have to actually walk the walk before talking the talk.

[isawtman]

4 eyed,

It comes down to "who'd he really hurt?" Did he hurt you 4 eyed? Did he hurt the people that gave money to him? Most of the people who gave him money were people he knew. They knew what they were getting into.

Does Sam's claims somehow interfere with some claims you're making? There are people all over the internet making claims.

Have you looked around, the economy not exactly roaring. Why not take a hike during a down economy. He was not exactly working the job he wanted.

Many people have said that Sam wants to be the next Skurka. But even Skurka had to stop and postpone his NCT hike because of injuries.

We know everything that's wrong with Sam and his approach, but in the end "who did he really hurt?"

[Slo-go'en]

We know everything that's wrong with Sam and his approach, but in the end "who did he really hurt?"

The only one he hurt was himself. What little credability he had is totally gone now.

[weary]

....We know everything that's wrong with Sam and his approach, but in the end "who did he really hurt?"
Well, for one thing, he hurt the long distance hiking community by fostering the idea that hiking is a competition, populated by blowhards, rather than a healthy and beneficial recreation.

[Alligator]

I have the same problem with the Olympics. It's killing swimming. All those people trying to win medals and break world records. I just want to float in the pool.

[jrwiesz]

I have the same problem with the Olympics. It's killing swimming. All those people trying to win medals and break world records. I just want to float in the pool.

It seems to me that was the intent(competition), of the Olympics, from its conception.:-?

I'm not sure the same can be said about long distance hiking.

SG didn't know what he was doing to begin with, and still has no clue; that is, if we are talking about long distance hiking.

[WI_Mike]

I hadn't realized how elaborate he'd gotten as far as soliciting donations with different "sponsorship levels," etc... Just saw the PDF on his site. http://www.theinitiativesite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/SamuelHGardner_Media_Kit-3.pdf

The whole thing just bothers me. In the PDF it suggests he quit a comfortable job in the west doing land reclamation to pursue his dreams. But in a comment he wrote:

"I simply cannot afford this trip on my own. I was laid off from the job that was supposed to fund it entirely. I have since picked up odd job construction work and sold literately everything I own. Including my truck, surfboards, road bike, mountain bike, climbing gear, old backpacking gear, cloths, snowboard, books, scuba gear, tv and the list goes on. I even pawned what I could not sell and scrapped my mineral collection at the junkyard. Simply, it is all gone. The only thing left for additional funding is more construction work and more sponsorship. I am willing do to both because that is what its going to take to go on this trip."

To be fair it sounds like the sponsorship attempt didn't work out so well. While I admire trying to find creative ways to build something in this economy... well I'll leave it there.

[4eyedbuzzard]

4 eyed,

It comes down to "who'd he really hurt?"

No, it comes down to who did he really help? Because that is his claim - that he is doing this "for others", "to provide an inspiration", yada, yada.

No one sought Sam out. He deliberately called attention to himself by putting himself on the public stage via interviews, press releases, websites, etc. He even set up a for-profit corporation. And he received the attention he so desperately sought. If he didn't want the attention, he shouldn't have asked for it. If he doesn't continue to want it, he should stop promoting it.

I make no claims. I have no promotional website. I'm not trying to turn a profit from my supposed hiking skill. He's the freakin' celebrity hiker wannabe. And as person who put themselves in the public limelight for profit, he's fair game. If he doesn't like attention, he should get off the stage and stop with the BS about how he's doing this to inspire others and all that crap.

From his website:


Purpose

His Mission:
To Initiate The Drive Within.
To be an example of Creativity, Motivation, Progression and Community.

His Vision:
Initiate the drive within peoples hearts to seek fulfillment in their lives through sharing my life’s journey of identifying, preparing for, and achieving extraordinary goals. Provide the necessary tools, examples and inspiration to take the initiative and achieve ones own goals.

The Rationale:
The Initiative is a motivational project thats sole purpose is to give hope, inspiration and tools to pursue personal goals. Through this project, I will share my life’s journey of the pursuit and achievement of seemingly unattainable goals. The stories of those I meet along the way will also be held up as examples of inspiration. The collective journey will be presented on this website and through speaking engagements at grade schools, universities and organizations.

The reason for “The Initiative“ is to prove a simple but important point: Life is what we make it. We all have choices. We can choose to change or not. We can be content with who we are or we have the option to work towards the person we want to be. No matter the outcome of our decisions, we must not sit idle, we must be actively enjoying life or be actively making a change. These life-choices apply to each and everyone of us despite different life-challenges and set backs of varying degrees. The greater the hardship overcome; the greater the joy, fulfillment and self-respect.

I am doing this for me. I am doing this for the people who wish they could but physically cannot. I am doing this for the people who are alone and unsupported. I am doing this for those who dream. I am doing this for those who have forgotten their dreams. I am doing this for those who have sacrificed dreams to support others. I am doing this to share with the ones who cannot be there. I am doing this for the story. I am doing this for the adventure. I am doing this to show what is possible.

-Samuel H. Gardner

Come on. What a load of drivel. He was disillusioned with the daily tedium of his real world job and figured maybe he could promote and fund a record mileage hike via a big publicity campaign, and then roll it into being some sort of inspirational hiking guru. Unfortunately for Sam, he didn't research what is actually possible, didn't gain the requisite experience, and most importantly, he didn't do any of the years of really hard work (record pace LD hiking) that succeeding at such an endeavor requires. It was all just talk, and the reality of hiking got in the way. The reality is that he's just another unemployed hiker of average ability - but with a fancy promotional website and a big appetite for attention.

Sorry you don't like like it, but I prefer truth as opposed to fantasy.

[Cookerhiker]

No, it comes down to who did he really help? Because that is his claim - that he is doing this "for others", "to provide an inspiration", yada, yada.

No one sought Sam out. He deliberately called attention to himself by putting himself on the public stage via interviews, press releases, websites, etc. He even set up a for-profit corporation. And he received the attention he so desperately sought. If he didn't want the attention, he shouldn't have asked for it. If he doesn't continue to want it, he should stop promoting it.

I make no claims. I have no promotional website. I'm not trying to turn a profit from my supposed hiking skill. He's the freakin' celebrity hiker wannabe. And as person who put themselves in the public limelight for profit, he's fair game. If he doesn't like attention, he should get off the stage and stop with the BS about how he's doing this to inspire others and all that crap.

From his website:



Come on. What a load of drivel. He was disillusioned with the daily tedium of his real world job and figured maybe he could promote and fund a record mileage hike via a big publicity campaign, and then roll it into being some sort of inspirational hiking guru. Unfortunately for Sam, he didn't research what is actually possible, didn't gain the requisite experience, and most importantly, he didn't do any of the years of really hard work (record pace LD hiking) that succeeding at such an endeavor requires. It was all just talk, and the reality of hiking got in the way. The reality is that he's just another unemployed hiker of average ability - but with a fancy promotional website and a big appetite for attention.

Sorry you don't like like it, but I prefer truth as opposed to fantasy.

First word that comes to my mind is "pretentious."

[Lone Wolf]

he sure did spend a lot of time in motels and folks home eatin' good and doin' real low miles. i'm inspired. i'm gonna take the initiative and go walk to Dot's later today :)

[Hikerhead]

First word that comes to my mind is "pretentious."


First thing that comes to my mind is that you recently found your thesaurus. I can't understand anything you try to say lately. :D

[isawtman]

No, it comes down to who did he really help? Because that is his claim - that he is doing this "for others", "to provide an inspiration", yada, yada.


Well, apparently he has helped you let out a little steam you have built up inside.

I really don't buy the fact that he's hurting the hiking community but making it some type of Olympic Sport. There are plenty of other people that are on this forum right now that are planning to break the record on the AT. In fact there is a forum for Trail Running and Speed hiking.

The bottom line is that Sam has failed.

And Abe Lincoln failed at being a shopkeeper but turned out as being the best President we ever had. And how about U.S. Grant, he failed at everything including being a soldier before the Civil War broke out. But he proved to be the only soldier to do what it took to win the war. Thomas Edison failed in school, Bill Clinton failed on his first run for Governor, the list goes on.

I do believe that some of Sam's concepts and tactics were wrong. But to go out and say that he hurt a bunch of people, or a community, is pushing it.

[Cookerhiker]

First thing that comes to my mind is that you recently found your thesaurus. I can't understand anything you try to say lately. :D

Never use a thesaurus, don't own one.

[Pedaling Fool]

In that whole write-up he doesn't mention anything about hiking experience, that's key information (and for me the first clue) for an undertaking like this. His only experience I've seen him list are: a 100-km day-hike and he lived in a snow cave one winter:rolleyes: So maybe you can descrbe him as pretentious, but you gotta throw a little delusional in the mix.

[Rocket Jones]

So maybe you can descrbe him as pretentious, but you gotta throw a little delusional in the mix.

Delusional. Visionary. Potayto. Potahto. :rolleyes:

[fiddlehead]

He's just a kid. (with very limited experience in LDHiking)
I'm sure he learned a lot from this.
He'll be a better person because of it all.
I would think he'll now try a thru-hike of either the PCT or AT and get the needed experience and muscles needed for any speed hike or endurance hike.
We'll see. (maybe he won't broadcast it next time)

[Lone Wolf]

He's just a kid. (with very limited experience in LDHiking)
I'm sure he learned a lot from this.
He'll be a better person because of it all.
I would think he'll now try a thru-hike of either the PCT or AT and get the needed experience and muscles needed for any speed hike or endurance hike.
We'll see. (maybe he won't broadcast it next time)

he's starting 1 Jan. 2012 from the beginning of the NCT again. not very smart

[weary]

I have the same problem with the Olympics. It's killing swimming. All those people trying to win medals and break world records. I just want to float in the pool.
Not really the same Alligator. Swimming is a recognized sport with organized rules and elaborate timing and timing devices. Hiking records are solely in the mind of the "competitor." No one is watching, no one is checking for accuracy. It's strictly an ego thing.

If someone wants to set up a hiking competition, go for it. Set rules. Post sentinels along the trail. Proclaim a winner. So far no one has. There are no records that mean anything. Not even the list of thru hikers that ATC keeps. Just read the rules. "We assume that whoever applies to be listed has followed the rules" or words to that effect.

[Camping Dave]

4eyedbuttard, please keep it up. Your whiney trolling about that dork sam is so much more amusing than his [trail / get picked up / sleep in a house / eat home made breakfast / ride back to trail] journal.

You even created a user account at bplight just to whine and moan about sammy, and got slapped down by their members. So ironic that you call sam immature.

Seriously though, your waaaahs are better than sam's posts. Can you get a youtube account and make a video response to his pretentious video? That would rock.

[vamelungeon]

I agree with 4eyedbuzzard, and name calling is SO adult.

[Hikerhead]

he's starting 1 Jan. 2012 from the beginning of the NCT again. not very smart

I agree with that. That lesson sure didn't sink in.

[RGB]

Complain all you want, Buzz is right.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Well, apparently he has helped you let out a little steam you have built up inside.
The only steam that does occur is when I criticize a wannabe public celebrity and get personally attacked for doing so. I never once criticized any of Sam's supporters, only Sam the public personna / celebrity. In return, many of his supporters personally attacked me. Go figure.


I really don't buy the fact that he's hurting the hiking community but making it some type of Olympic Sport. There are plenty of other people that are on this forum right now that are planning to break the record on the AT. In fact there is a forum for Trail Running and Speed hiking.
I don't think the LD hiking community was harmed. When did I say that?


The bottom line is that Sam has failed.

And Abe Lincoln failed at being a shopkeeper but turned out as being the best President we ever had. And how about U.S. Grant, he failed at everything including being a soldier before the Civil War broke out. But he proved to be the only soldier to do what it took to win the war. Thomas Edison failed in school, Bill Clinton failed on his first run for Governor, the list goes on.

I do believe that some of Sam's concepts and tactics were wrong. But to go out and say that he hurt a bunch of people, or a community, is pushing it.

Again, where did I ever say he has hurt anyone? I didn't. I said he didn't help, which was what his stated purpose was.

But anyway, he ain't no Abe Lincoln or Grant or Clinton or Edison. Get real.


4eyedbuttard, please keep it up. Your whiney trolling about that dork sam is so much more amusing than his [trail / get picked up / sleep in a house / eat home made breakfast / ride back to trail] journal. You even created a user account at bplight just to whine and moan about sammy, and got slapped down by their members. So ironic that you call sam immature.
Sorry to disappoint you Cramping Dave, but I had that account long before Sam even thought up his plan. I created it when I wanted to buy some gear. I've read some things at BPL but never posted there, because honestly, they aren't a very entertaining group - way too dry and serious. That many there think Sam is anything more than an average hiker with an unachievable fantasy though is fascinating.


Seriously though, your waaaahs are better than sam's posts. Can you get a youtube account and make a video response to his pretentious video? That would rock.
Nah, I don't have the initiative.

[Captain Blue]

4eyedbuzzard is so right on this one! Spot on.

[Alligator]

Not really the same Alligator. Swimming is a recognized sport with organized rules and elaborate timing and timing devices. Hiking records are solely in the mind of the "competitor." No one is watching, no one is checking for accuracy. It's strictly an ego thing.

If someone wants to set up a hiking competition, go for it. Set rules. Post sentinels along the trail. Proclaim a winner. So far no one has. There are no records that mean anything. Not even the list of thru hikers that ATC keeps. Just read the rules. "We assume that whoever applies to be listed has followed the rules" or words to that effect.People who swim, run track, play soccer, ski, etc in the Olympics don't do those things for their ego?

People make competitions out of all kinds of things: the Olympics (including ping pong), World Cup, Superbowl, World Series, Stanley Cup, March Madness, trail running, speed walking, chess, bridge, backgammon, geography, spelling, trail running, speed walking, flag pole sitting, hot dog eating, racing cars, building skyscrapers, the entire Guinness Book of World Records, and yes even hiking. The rules of the "game" vary in their detail and rigidity.

What I disagree with you about though is that Sam G.'s failing to accomplish his hike is harmful to backpacking. Hindsight is 20/20, but the attempt to accomplish something extraordinarily difficult did catch some people's interest and imagination. Other people attempting (and finishing) similarly high objectives have as well, for instance Squeaky's and Flyin' Brian's triple crowns.

Personally I didn't think he had much of a chance, particularly given the snowshoeing but it's not something to get worked up about.

[Cookerhiker]

Is there competition in bird-watching? Which individual or team racked up the most unique species in the shortest amount of time? But do you weigh in quality i.e. some species are harder to spot than others? Are there judges present to verify the sightings? For that matter, are confirmed songs/calls sufficient or does sighting with the eyes have to occur? Are there standards for what kind of scopes are acceptable? What about cross-breeds e.g. a black-capped chickadee/Carolina chickadee hybrid?

[Alligator]

Is there competition in bird-watching? Which individual or team racked up the most unique species in the shortest amount of time? But do you weigh in quality i.e. some species are harder to spot than others? Are there judges present to verify the sightings? For that matter, are confirmed songs/calls sufficient or does sighting with the eyes have to occur? Are there standards for what kind of scopes are acceptable? What about cross-breeds e.g. a black-capped chickadee/Carolina chickadee hybrid?World Series of Birding

http://www.birdcapemay.org/wsob.shtml
I hope that doesn't ruin it for anybody.

[weary]

....What I disagree with you about though is that Sam G.'s failing to accomplish his hike is harmful to backpacking. .....
My concern was never about his failure to accomplish his hike. Anyone that has ever snowshoed in deep snow knew from the beginning that he had zero chance of succeeding. The harm, such as it was, was his very public promotion, and fund raising.

Long distance walking -- all outdoor activities for that matter -- are much misunderstood activities. Sam's hype added to that misunderstanding. Rather than encouraging people to get outdoors and live, he helped foster the idea that enjoying the outdoors is a difficult and dangerous activity.

My original post was simply an answer to a question about what harm might have been done. My answer was: "Well, for one thing, he hurt the long distance hiking community by fostering the idea that hiking is a competition, populated by blowhards, rather than a healthy and beneficial recreation."

I might have worded my answer more adroitly, but it seems obvious to me that the great majority, who already have doubts about hiking, probably had those doubts strengthened by this episode.

I know hiking is a competition. A few try to set records. Most of us just compete with ourselves. Our adversaries are the human desire for home and comfort, vs the challenge of the outdoors.

[Cookerhiker]

World Series of Birding

http://www.birdcapemay.org/wsob.shtml
I hope that doesn't ruin it for anybody.

Oh man, I was kidding, tongue-in-cheek. Seems an opportunity for a Monty Python or Onion-type parody here somewhere.

[Cookerhiker]

My concern was never about his failure to accomplish his hike. Anyone that has ever snowshoed in deep snow knew from the beginning that he had zero chance of succeeding. The harm, such as it was, was his very public promotion, and fund raising.

Long distance walking -- all outdoor activities for that matter -- are much misunderstood activities. Sam's hype added to that misunderstanding. Rather than encouraging people to get outdoors and live, he helped foster the idea that enjoying the outdoors is a difficult and dangerous activity.

My original post was simply an answer to a question about what harm might have been done. My answer was: "Well, for one thing, he hurt the long distance hiking community by fostering the idea that hiking is a competition, populated by blowhards, rather than a healthy and beneficial recreation."

I might have worded my answer more adroitly, but it seems obvious to me that the great majority, who already have doubts about hiking, probably had those doubts strengthened by this episode.

I know hiking is a competition. A few try to set records. Most of us just compete with ourselves. Our adversaries are the human desire for home and comfort, vs the challenge of the outdoors.

I suspect any damage or harm or misleading portrayal of long-distance hiking on Sam's part is limited in the greater scheme of things.

Fortunately, I don't think the public-at-large perceives backpacking or long-distance hiking in any competitive sport context (to the extent the public has any opinions at all on this). So while we may occasionally read of Sam Gardiner's quest or other articles about "trail running" or "so-and-so has hiked the AT a record XX times" or "such and such is planning to set a new 'unsupported' speed record," I don't think this stuff resonates with the non-hiking public. The AT is reasonably well-known and I doubt that a measurable percentage of those who have heard of it think of the Trail as a venue for some kind of competitive sport.

In a conversation if you mention you play softball or tennis or golf or run marathons, the assumption is it's competitive to some degree. I guess swimming also. Cycling - maybe, maybe not. But anytime I tell someone I backpack long distances, their questions (if interested!) never deal with competition or records.

It seems a lot of newbies have joined WB lately and eagerly ask their questions about the AT and hiking. Rarely if ever does anyone ask about "competitive" hiking; rather, they want to experience the physical, emotional, spiritual, pleasurable rewards of hiking through the great Eastern hardwood forests.

[WingedMonkey]

It's you guys that have made him a "star" Every time he got mentioned in here he got a few hundred hits. He's more popular than rather to tent or hammock.
:mad:

[weary]

My car's license plate reads, "GAME93." When occasionally someone asks what the plate message means, I tell them 93 is the year I went to Georgia and walked home. I'm surprised by the number of questioners who seem to have no idea that there is a trail running from Georgia to Maine.

[Alligator]

Oh man, I was kidding, tongue-in-cheek. Seems an opportunity for a Monty Python or Onion-type parody here somewhere.
Oh...Well then, WSB teams are only allowed to count one African or one European swallow per team and identification is contingent upon knowing its unladen air speed velocity.

[Alligator]

To add to Cookerhiker's post, I think people would recognize the arbitrary increase in difficulty by stringing the four trails together, the time limitation, and the winter start. I would hope they could separate that from normal backpacking, much like we separate thruhiking from regular backpacking
My car's license plate reads, "GAME93." When occasionally someone asks what the plate message means, I tell them 93 is the year I went to Georgia and walked home. I'm surprised by the number of questioners who seem to have no idea that there is a trail running from Georgia to Maine.Thruhiking itself creates interest and opens people up to experiencing backpacking, and thruhiking too has a low success rate.

[Lone Wolf]

thru-hiking is more about the destination and not the journey

[weary]

I believe there is far less public knowledge of trails and the outdoors than those who participate in White Blaze suspect.

I was at a board meeting a few days ago of a group dedicated to providing buffers to the narrow AT corridor. One board member seemed to think we needed a better argument than providing a trail for thru hikers. I reminded him that thru hikers are a tiny minority of AT use in Maine -- about 300 of the 300,000 users each year.

Our local land trust has constructed around 30 miles of trails in our town. The same fears that are expressed here about a thru hike of the AT are regularly expressed about these trails, all of which are blazed and none of which are more than a half mile from a public road.

People call me all the time complaining that they couldn't walk because our map box at the trail head was out of maps.

[weary]

thru-hiking is more about the destination and not the journey
Sadly, that is true. More would finish, if people would learn to just enjoy the experience of the trail, rather than focusing on just completing the trail.

[rickb]

Oh man, I was kidding, tongue-in-cheek. Seems an opportunity for a Monty Python or Onion-type parody here somewhere.

How about a movie with Owen Wilson, Steve Martin and best of all, Jack Black....

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1053810/

[XCskiNYC]

There may be people who were attracted to Gardner's hike because it was extraordinarily difficult. However, that's not really the way Gardner himself presented it to the public (despite claims that he wasn't trying to "one-up" anybody which he makes in the following video). His promo site says: "Through this project I will share my life's journey of the pursuit and achievement of seemingly unattainable goals." He makes it sound like he's taken down one impossible objective after another and the planned mega-trek is just the next item on the agenda. Putting five grand in his budget for a post-trek slideshow tour makes it sound like he views the hike as something he's virtually finished with and the actual walking is just a minor detail to get out of the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmUoFaWlBO0



However, if Gardner's latest post is true, he may have had a physical disadvantage that pretty much knocked him out of the box from Day 3 (when he reports the 28 miles of road walking and subsequently reported constant pain, mainly in his hip). Read the latest entry in his journal. If he's accurately reporting what this doctor said, maybe getting the planned orthotic will make it possible for him to achieve some kind of thru-hiking accomplishment. I'm still skeptical on the All-In Trek and the idea doesn't even appeal all that much. As originally proposed, it's a stunt. If he takes two years to complete the whole thing, he'll just be following behind the rates of other people who have done thrus on all four trails (just not stringing them one after another).

[4eyedbuzzard]

. . . if Gardner's latest post is true, he may have had a physical disadvantage that pretty much knocked him out of the box from Day 3 (when he reports the 28 miles of road walking and subsequently reported constant pain, mainly in his hip). Read the latest entry in his journal. If he's accurately reporting what this doctor said, maybe getting the planned orthotic will make it possible for him to achieve some kind of thru-hiking accomplishment. I'm still skeptical on the All-In Trek and the idea doesn't even appeal all that much. As originally proposed, it's a stunt. If he takes two years to complete the whole thing, he'll just be following behind the rates of other people who have done thrus on all four trails (just not stringing them one after another).

60% of people have functional leg length discrepancy (http://www.maximumtrainingsolutions.com/Functional-Leg-Length-Inequality.html).
90% have anatomical leg length inequality (http://www.maximumtrainingsolutions.com/Anatomical-Leg-Length-Inequality.html), with an average length inequality of 3/16"

I'd submit that these groups include the subset of humans that hike. Given the nature of uneven footing on trails, if either functional or anatomical leg length issues with the normal minor deviations were a huge issue, few would ever finish a long distance hike.

FWIW, Podiatrists LOVE to sell custom orthotics and lifts. Orthotics get great reviews from many Podiatrists. And, they make a huge profit on them. But Orthopedists and Physical Therapists tend to be less convinced - I've asked as (like most people) I have one leg shorter than the other and wondered about how it affected my back injuries. Custom orthotics, including lifts, get very mixed reviews by those who have purchased and tried them. Some love them and have positive results. Others will tell you they are but a waste of hundreds of dollars.

I'll go out on a limb and opine that most of Sam's physical pain and injury likely came from simply being out of shape and trying to do more miles than he was physically capable of, the terrain (including road walking impact issues), unsuitable footwear, and even poor snowshoeing technique. There could be other causes as well. But I wouldn't buy into the limb length inequality being the proximate cause of his injury or his inability to achieve his goal though. If it was that severe, it would have caused him problems prior to the hike. It may play into it, but it just isn't the prime reason. It does makes a good chapter in the story though.

[fiddlehead]

60% of people have [I]

I'll go out on a limb and opine that most of Sam's physical pain and injury likely came from simply being out of shape and trying to do more miles than he was physically capable of, the terrain (including road walking impact issues), unsuitable footwear, and even poor snowshoeing technique. There could be other causes as well. But I wouldn't buy into the limb length inequality being the proximate cause of his injury or his inability to achieve his goal though. If it was that severe, it would have caused him problems prior to the hike. It may play into it, but it just isn't the prime reason. It does makes a good chapter in the story though.

I have to agree.

If he would've just done at least one thru-hike before this attempt, he would not only know if his body could do it, he would have trained his body to carry the loads over time.
Trying to do an amazing, un-attempted feat without knowing what it is going to do to your body is not the way to success.

How many of us have "hit the wall" only to keep going?

How many of us have bailed because it hurt more than we thought it would?

[XCskiNYC]

That's exactly what my girlfriend said about this, that the difference Gardner mentioned isn't that unusual and that it can also be related to the person's dominant side.

I felt skeptical also on just this one doctor having diagnosed the difference when none of the other docs spotted it and, whadda ya know, he sells orthotics! Maybe it's just the naysayer in me:rolleyes:

[Skidsteer]

Claiming that one leg is shorter than the other and it is messing with my hip joint sounds better than saying I'm freezing my ass off and I'm tired of walking.

[weary]

Claiming that one leg is shorter than the other and it is messing with my hip joint sounds better than saying I'm freezing my ass off and I'm tired of walking.
As I've said many times, one can always find a legitimate excuse for quitting a long distance hike. I have no idea whether this applies to Sam's walk. But I also would be surpised if it didn't play a role in Sam's decision to quit.

[sbhikes]

I'd rather the public though that long distance hiking meant it was some kind of competition. Then maybe someone would think of me as an elite competitor, an overachiever and give me a good job. I think maybe too many out there think of it as a vacation, as slacking off and being disloyal to workaholism (which of course, it is.)

I really think he should have checked out long distance hiking before he decided to try and do something so ambitious. I heard about Scott Williamson in the planning stages of my first hike and I never thought I could do anything like what he has done. Then I got out there and it seemed even less likely I could do anything like him. I also had heard of climbing Everest before I went to Nepal and it wasn't until I was there at 18,000 feet that I understood how impossible it would be to hike to even 20,000 feet. No way did I think I could ever summit Everest after being there and seeing what it's really like. He should have seen what it's really like first.

I don't think he hurt anybody but his own pride. Maybe he'll make all these sponsors quit sponsoring people or at least do a little research about a person and their crazy ideas before sponsoring them. I find all the fundraising and hiking to cure this and that and sponsorship stuff really extremely annoying. People should just go hike to see the beauty of the land and leave it at that. I admire Scott Williamson who just goes out there and does it more than someone who has to get logos and bumper stickers before they'll go out there and do it.

[Camping Dave]

The only steam that does occur is when I criticize a wannabe public celebrity and get personally attacked for doing so.

Waah. When did you get personally attacked? Nobody attacked you. Saying you're a whiney sniveler is not an attack, just an observation.

Just for fun, I used the search function and noticed you posted to this thread three times on the 18th. Once just after midnight, then again around noon, then again around 11:00pm. I bet Sam's glad to know you care enough to spend the whole day in front of the computer commenting on his exploits! LOL. :D

[John Cash]

Hey Guys,

You probably remember my name is John, and I want to apologize to every single one of you. I'm pretty sure most of you arent bad and are great hikers, and if you guys want to tease people, then that's cool, everyone has a different life. The world is here to be shared, and I'm happy to share it with you guys. Thru-hiking seems really hard, anyway... I had a look around and there was a picture of Mt. Katahdin, it was great. I actually met my best friend on Whiteblaze, so I guess we're all the same sometimes.

Don't be a stranger. Just hit me with your best shot. I deserve it after what I was like. I injured myself hiking and I'm stuck indoors. I also tried doing a 20 mile day and it was really hard! I only got sponsored because the manufacturer was friends with my mum (My pack just busted; it was SO bad). You are all just reasonable people who should disregard what I
said to you, Hike Your Own Hike LOL! (am I hiker trash or what?). Thanks for listening, no hard feelings, right?

[WI_Mike]

To answer your questions, I'm guessing that there are some things that would raise some eyebrows and would have to be documented, but of course birding is an honor kind of thing. And I think it's # of species to determine who wins, though I don't know what the answer would be to some of your other questions. If you were spending time though trying to figure out a potential BC/Carolina chickadee hybrid you'd probably find yourself in last place.

But I'll admit I don't like the idea, and a lot of that aspect (how many species can I tally up) of birding doesn't appeal to me nearly as much as some other people. I personally like more exploring places people might not go so often and seeing what I can find. But that's just me.


Is there competition in bird-watching? Which individual or team racked up the most unique species in the shortest amount of time? But do you weigh in quality i.e. some species are harder to spot than others? Are there judges present to verify the sightings? For that matter, are confirmed songs/calls sufficient or does sighting with the eyes have to occur? Are there standards for what kind of scopes are acceptable? What about cross-breeds e.g. a black-capped chickadee/Carolina chickadee hybrid?

Huh? I think he was saying just the opposite (that it's the desintation NOT the journey). Wasn't he?


Sadly, that is true. More would finish, if people would learn to just enjoy the experience of the trail, rather than focusing on just completing the trail.

[isawtman]

T

I don't think the LD hiking community was harmed. When did I say that?



You're right, you didn't say that. But I was responding to the whole group, not just you. Unfortunately, your quote was on top, so you thought I was responding to you solely.

Sorry about that, I will clarify better next time

[WI_Mike]

In other news:

http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2011/03/walk-around-alaska-andrew-skurka-story7757

http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/podcast/2011/listen-interview-andrew-skurka7811

[isawtman]

In other news:


Really? Is there really any other news other than Sam?

[RITBlake]

Can't believe people are still talking about this kid....

Let me put this thread to bed with a quote from the 1992 classic "The Mighty Ducks"

"You could have been one of the greats! And now look at yourself! You're not even a has-been. You're a never-was."

[WingedMonkey]

Can't believe people are still talking about this kid....

Let me put this thread to bed with a quote from the 1992 classic "The Mighty Ducks"

"You could have been one of the greats! And now look at yourself! You're not even a has-been. You're a never-was."

The thread was left alone for a full week till you decided you had to post
:sun

[RITBlake]

The thread was left alone for a full week till you decided you had to post
:sun

Fair enough.

[ki0eh]

He did make the cover of the current Finger Lakes Trail News

[Del Q]

He states that he will be back at it again 1/1/12. I would have done this trek differently, I would start on the Mexcio border and get some miles under my belt in the warm weather, then fly to NY in March or April............we will see, best case doing almost 40 miles every day for a year is a massive and possibly unreachable goal.

[stranger]

He states that he will be back at it again 1/1/12. I would have done this trek differently, I would start on the Mexcio border and get some miles under my belt in the warm weather, then fly to NY in March or April............we will see, best case doing almost 40 miles every day for a year is a massive and possibly unreachable goal.

40 miles in a day? I don't think he ever pulled a single 20 mile day.

[WI_Mike]

I don't know much about this and only watched this brief video...

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1667925646/pacific-crest-trail-documentary

...but it seems like these guys took the idea of thru-hikes and did kind of what Sam said he wanted to do without the promises of record setting, timetables, winter hiking, etc...

I'll have to check it out further, but it seems like a better way to go about this whole kind of thing (i.e., trying to build a kind of organization to promote the stuff you're interested in and care about and maybe make a career out of it, though I'm sure they're not quite at that level yet).

Just thought it was possibly an interesting contrast. Carry on.