Presidential

[McFrancis]

Going to do the presidential in August. Doing the section from Crawford Notch (US 302) to Pinkham Notch (NH 16). Can anybody give me a realistic time for this section. Going over Mt Washington. Will be a group of flat Landers from Florida. Fair to average hikers. Looking at doing a 4-5 day hike. Best direction south bound or north?

[fredmugs]

I did this last July NOBO. From Mt Washington to Pinkham I believe it is a whole lot rockier. I'm pretty hardcore and it took me 10 hours to go 13 miles downhill from Washington.

Since I hate rocks if I had to do it over again I would head south since I would rather climb over rocks than go down them.

[Mountain Mike]

Here is a good link for the Whites. http://hikethewhites.com// . The main things to consider is the weather & where to camp. Due to alpine terrain there are alot of rules to comply with. You may want to consider a night at Lake of the Cloud Hut. It is a full service Hut run by AMC. Dinner, bunk & breakfast. I would suggest tenting at the Perch or staying at one of RMC cabins, then Lake of Cloud Hut. Then tent or stay at Mizpah hut. If budget allows you could just do a hut to hut hike & leave the tent behind.

[Debbie]

Mountain Mike;

I'm planning to do that section also this summer and have considered the RMC places and Perch for budget reasons. Is there considerable gain/loss of elevation and distance involved in going to these? They look to be a mile or so off the AT which doesn't seem a lot unless there's great elevation change. Also, how's the terrain to these places?

SeaEagle

[Cookerhiker]

Mountain Mike;

I'm planning to do that section also this summer and have considered the RMC places and Perch for budget reasons. Is there considerable gain/loss of elevation and distance involved in going to these? They look to be a mile or so off the AT which doesn't seem a lot unless there's great elevation change. Also, how's the terrain to these places?

SeaEagle

It's been a long time, but hiking SOBO starting at Pinkham, I stayed at The Perch the first night and didn't think it was a lot of extra mileage or elevation change. Made it to Mizpah the next night despite heavy fog from The Perch to Washington; after a few minutes atop Washington, the skies cleared suddenlty and the rest of the day was beautiful.

[Mountain Mike]

The Perch has the least elevation loss from AT via Isreal Ridge Path.Elevation loss is minimal. The other cabins (Crag Camp, Grey Knob) have over 1,200 elevation loss. But they are at treeline & you would have to decend anyway to camp. They do have some great views from them. If you are not commited to the AT you could always take an alternative trail like Valley Way from rt 2. It is a bit shorter than AT & more direct.

It is the Whites to climbs & decents are steep. But the views are incredible. once you hit treeline you stay above it for almost the entire ridge.

[Slo-go'en]

Going all the way from Crawford notch to one of the RMC camps would be a LOOONG day. If you stayed at Lake of the Clouds, it would be a much more reasonable hike, two days, one night. Also, since the AMC hut supplies bedding and meals, you can basically do this as a slack pack, which makes a difficult section of trail a whole lot easier. However, the sooner you can make reservations the better and you might have to be flexable about the exact date. Lake of the Clouds is a popular hut and you want to go during the peak of the season. (Its also going to cost about $90 a person)

Oh, I just noticed you want to do a 4-5 day hike. You can't streach out that section into 4-5 days, as that streach is pretty much all above tree line and there is no where to camp. You have little choice but to use the AMC huts in that section of trail, unless your willing to do a couple of long, hard days to get through it all quickly.
You could do Mitzpa Hut, (short hike in from Crawford), Lakes of the Clouds and then Madison Hut. Getting reservations for 3 huts in a row for a group in August might not be easy and now we're talking about $250 per person for huts.

An alturnative, which in the long run would be easier and less expensive, would be to base camp out of the RMC Crag Camp ($12/night/per/person) and then do day hikes up above tree line. A Jefferson, Adams, Madison loop hike is a reasonable day once your up there, as could be a walk to Mt Washington and back.

All in all, even a small group trying to hike along the AT in August in NH is going to have problems with where to camp. Despite the cost, AMC huts tend to fill up and the less expensive shelters and tent site camp areas tend to fill up quickly. A single person might be able to "steath" camp (usually in highly illegal spots), but this is not possible for groups of two or more.

[rickb]

Huts are not needed. Stays at Nauman tent site, The Perch (or other RMC) tent site or simple cabin (not a Hut), Valley Way or Osgood tents site may be in order. Consider checking out Shapliegh Bunk House option at the Higland Center as a starting or ending point (not to be confused with a bunk room in the Highland Center).

[Old Hillwalker]

Just for S & G, I checked and all of August is so far available for Lakes Hut, The price for non-member adults is $103 pp

http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/availability/index.cfm/fuseaction/availability.main

[Cookerhiker]

Huts are not needed. Stays at Nauman tent site, The Perch (or other RMC) tent site or simple cabin (not a Hut), Valley Way or Osgood tents site may be in order. Consider checking out Shapliegh Bunk House option at the Higland Center as a starting or ending point (not to be confused with a bunk room in the Highland Center).

Also, Mizpah Hut has tent sites where you can camp; I did that in '08. There was a fee but much smaller than the huts.

[Slo-go'en]

Huts are not needed. Stays at Nauman tent site, The Perch (or other RMC) tent site or simple cabin (not a Hut), Valley Way or Osgood tents site may be in order.

Assuming you can get a spot at Nauman (arrive early and non-weekend) then it is only about 11 miles to "The Perch", and then another 11 miles to Pinkham. For someone in good shape and used to NH trails, this isn't unreasonable, but for a group of fair to average hikers from Florida, it could be a bit much. As much as I dislike the Huts, breaking this section up into smaller pieces and using the Huts, for this group, I am sure would be a much more enjoyable experiance.

[McFrancis]

Hey I greatly appreciate the feed back. Try to work out the logistic. Would prefer not to stay in the shelter or the huts. I was thinking that if I cut it up into smaller track could avoid the shelters and do some tenting. So if I read this right South is the best direction. Could base out of one spot and day hike the area. Just difficult to get the distance down from everything I have read. I think that 8 miles would be a long day based on what I have read about the area. Looking to do the AT so any alternative to the north or south on the AT of equal view let me know.

[Peaks]

Much of the Presidental Range is in the alpine zone and no camping allowed. See USFS backcountry camping regulations. So, if you don't plan to stay at a hut, shelter, or tentsite, it means going a long way down to find a place to camp, and climbing back up in the morning.

[Praha4]

hiking the Long Trail in Vermont is a whole lot less hassle than dealing with the AT in the Whites. but both are great in the summer.

have a great hike

[Migrating Bird]

Weather, weather & weather. Getting 5 staight clear days (all day) in the Whites could be very iffy. Be flexible. IMHO, I would not miss, hiking Franconia Ridge, one of, if the not the best ridge hike in NE. Garfield-in good weather has great views. The hike NOBO from Pinkham to Rt. 2. Carter Notch and the hike out along the Rattle River, with it's great spots to swim is worth it. SOBO from Pinkham is, in my opinion easier as stated earlier, the large rock hopping on Madison is easier going up than down.

The hike up (or down) Webster Cliffs North is tough but the view looking down is worth it.

Washington is a nice place to visit but......

Don't discount the Huts, they are great places to get out of the weather, good food and full of interesting people. Stop at them even if you don't stay at them.

[Debbie]

Thanks for the info, Cookerhiker and Mountain Mike. Everybody's info was helpful. I'm going to look at my maps again. Maybe I can work it out to just use one AMC hut.

[TheKO]

How do you hike this area with a dog? Are they allowed in the huts?

[weary]

Assuming you can get a spot at Nauman (arrive early and non-weekend) then it is only about 11 miles to "The Perch", and then another 11 miles to Pinkham. For someone in good shape and used to NH trails, this isn't unreasonable, but for a group of fair to average hikers from Florida, it could be a bit much. As much as I dislike the Huts, breaking this section up into smaller pieces and using the Huts, for this group, I am sure would be a much more enjoyable experiance.
Having wandered the Presidentials from time to time since the age of 10 -- 72 years ago -- I believe Slo-go'en is offering good advice. What you Floridans are proposing is to traverse some of the great mountain ridges in the east.

Spend a few bucks, enjoy the landscape, enjoy the above timberline hiking, and if you can relax and put out of your mind all the anti-AMC comments, you will also enjoy the hut experience.

It's my guess that the least expensive part of your trip from Florida to New Hampshire and back will probably the 250 bucks for three nights -- and meals -- in the huts.

[Lone Wolf]

Going to do the presidential in August. Doing the section from Crawford Notch (US 302) to Pinkham Notch (NH 16). Can anybody give me a realistic time for this section. Going over Mt Washington. Will be a group of flat Landers from Florida. Fair to average hikers. Looking at doing a 4-5 day hike. Best direction south bound or north?

go NOBO. it's fairly easy. 2 days in good weather

[Old Hillwalker]

How do you hike this area with a dog? Are they allowed in the huts?

No dogs in huts, but they are allowed on the trails.

[Slo-go'en]

How do you hike this area with a dog? Are they allowed in the huts?

Not sure if dogs are allowed in the huts or not. Sort of think not.

It's a very rare thru-hiker with a dog which makes it this far and has to worry about it. Pretty much any dog you might see up this way on the trail are day or weekend hikers, but even that is not real common, as it is well known the granite rocks up here can do really fast damage to house dog's paws.

[Mountain Mike]

I'm not sure if they still do it but Lake of cloud hut used to let backpackers stay in Dungeon. It was an old basement stock room. Limited room & was full when I got their so I paid the small fee & slept on top of a table in dining room. I did have to get up really early. If you stay in a hut this would be the logical one to hit as it is about the middle of the range & right below Washington. You can hit Nauheim & tent outside Crawford Notch, Lake of Cloud Hut, then Perch (maybe spend a day here to bag a few of the peaks) & out for a pretty relaxed hike. The climbs/decents at either end are the tuff part of the Presidentials. Once up on the ridge they aren't to bad. Check out http://hikethewhites.com// for pics & info also check the AMC site. The AMC also runs a shuttle sytem in the area at many trailheads. Coming from FL you could take a bus from airport to Pinkham Notch to save on renting a car. Something to think about. I live in FL now but grew up in MA & Whites were my home backpacking teritory. I will help you anyway I can

[Mountain Mike]

Hey I greatly appreciate the feed back. Try to work out the logistic. Would prefer not to stay in the shelter or the huts. I was thinking that if I cut it up into smaller track could avoid the shelters and do some tenting. So if I read this right South is the best direction. Could base out of one spot and day hike the area. Just difficult to get the distance down from everything I have read. I think that 8 miles would be a long day based on what I have read about the area. Looking to do the AT so any alternative to the north or south on the AT of equal view let me know.
Franconia Ridge is a great alternative. Still an awsome ridge walk with more tenting alternatives than Presidentials. I would reccomend coming out Bondcliff Trail (also above treeline) down into Pemigiwasset Wildernesss & out Wilderness Trail. Having the time you have aloted I would take my time & enjoy it. Also keep in mind the weather can be nasty up on either ridge any time of the year. Snow even in summer. So plan accordingly.

[peakbagger]

Folks do from Appalachia (major trailhead to access Madison Hut) to Crwaford Notch in one day via the AT. I have done it a couple of times ( I am in no way a "super hiker")and there are groups who do it every year. Here are some details

http://home.earthlink.net/~ellozy/presidential-traverse.html.

That said, most flatlanders shouldnt even think about it. For most who are not used to NH hiking, 10 to 12 miles would be a stretch. If you are in excellent shape, a run from Crawford to Lakes is possible but realisitically, Crawford to Mitzpah (or Nauman tentsite)is far more reasonable. THe next day from Mitzpah to Lakes is not a long day but its very spectacular and exposed (if the weather is bad). To push onto the RMC camps adds another 4 to 6 hours for most folks. The "dungeon" at Lakes of the clouds usually available to backpackers is not a pleasant place, it is a rock walled basement under the building that usually smells like its been used as and outhouse.

If you start from Lakes Madison Hut its probably a 8 hours day if you stop to see the sights and take the detour up over Adams (you will want to do if the weather is nice. In bad weather its exposed for the whole trip and you will get to know the why they used to call it the worlds worst weather. The Hike From Madison to Pinkham is a longer day than you might expect as the drop down from Madison to Great Gulf is steep and unrelenting (very few flat spots).

If you are out to enjoy yourself, the AMC huts are a good option, although dont expect first classe service, everyone sleeps in communal bunkrooms and its hard to sleep due to the number of people inevitably moveing around at night. Bring earplugs and possbily sleep masks.