View Full Version : Super ultralight?
Ultralightinn.m
03-22-2011, 12:08
So my question to you guys is if there is a somewhat accepted deffiniton of super ultralight from what I understand it is 10-12lbd for ultralight depending on trip duration but would a 6lb base pack weight for a 3night trip qualify as super ultralight ?
SouthMark
03-22-2011, 12:11
Sub 5lb base weight is super ultralight. 6 lb base weight is damn good.
First can we agree on what comprises base weight?
flemdawg1
03-22-2011, 12:17
Nope. 5lb is the conventional definition of SUL.
You might wanna try backpackinglight.com, if you want a better discussion of things UL. The environment here is generally hostile to the idea.
sixguns01
03-22-2011, 12:24
Nope. 5lb is the conventional definition of SUL.
You might wanna try backpackinglight.com, if you want a better discussion of things UL. The environment here is generally hostile to the idea.
I very much agree with this statement. "Change is scary"
Blissful
03-22-2011, 12:26
Did you see the ultralight hiker forum here on WB? Might ask there
Ultralightinn.m
03-22-2011, 12:35
Ok 5 is what I thought thank you guys and I consider base weight without consumables so food,water,fuel
How about it's so light the gear carries you, not the other way around?
SouthMark
03-22-2011, 15:27
First can we agree on what comprises base weight?
Base weight is everything that you carry in your pack, on your pack, in your pockets, around your neck except consumables (water, food and fuel). FSO (From Skin Out) is Base Weight + Consumables + Clothing and shoes worn). Some people tend to leave off those things that the carry in their pockets when they figure base weight. Maps, guide books, iPods, iPhones etc. should be in your base weight. I carry a whistle, a small Swiss Army knife and a LED light on a lanyard around my neck. I include that in my base weight.
Base weight is everything that you carry in your pack, on your pack, in your pockets, around your neck except consumables (water, food and fuel). FSO (From Skin Out) is Base Weight + Consumables + Clothing and shoes worn). Some people tend to leave off those things that the carry in their pockets when they figure base weight. Maps, guide books, iPods, iPhones etc. should be in your base weight. I carry a whistle, a small Swiss Army knife and a LED light on a lanyard around my neck. I include that in my base weight.
See, I think that changes things.
I've heard base weight described as everything from the "big 3" (or 4) all the way to everything but food and water.
Also, on consumables - are you including the weight of the containers (water bottles, food bag) in the base weight or is factored into the consumable number?
Since those are fixed weights, it seems like it would belong in the base weight column.
fredmugs
03-22-2011, 16:53
I thought base weight was pack, sleeping system, and shelter. Everything else being variable. That makes me not super ultralight, ultralight, or kinda light.
I always ran with the idea that base weight includes everything that your pack will contain when you step out of the woods at your car, having consumed all your food and water. Taken to extremes, I guess that would include food wrappers and such. I figure its defined as the lightest my pack could possibly get at any point in the hike.
-Smalls
Trailbender
03-22-2011, 18:10
Base weight is everything that you carry in your pack, on your pack, in your pockets, around your neck except consumables (water, food and fuel). FSO (From Skin Out) is Base Weight + Consumables + Clothing and shoes worn). Some people tend to leave off those things that the carry in their pockets when they figure base weight. Maps, guide books, iPods, iPhones etc. should be in your base weight. I carry a whistle, a small Swiss Army knife and a LED light on a lanyard around my neck. I include that in my base weight.
Base weight only applies to my pack, to me. I don't count the stuff in my pockets.
Out of curiosity, what does a title of 'super ultralight' really accomplish? why not just call everything ultralight? Are there trophies of some sort for sub 5 lbs.?
johnnyblisters
03-22-2011, 19:00
Out of curiosity, what does a title of 'super ultralight' really accomplish? why not just call everything ultralight? Are there trophies of some sort for sub 5 lbs.?
Dumb thread isn't it?;)
SouthMark
03-22-2011, 19:17
It's not a title, it's a label. It's a goal, something to measure against. It is an arbitrary standard.
Skidsteer
03-22-2011, 19:31
Out of curiosity, what does a title of 'super ultralight' really accomplish? why not just call everything ultralight? Are there trophies of some sort for sub 5 lbs.?
Yeah. You're able to backpack when you're eighty years old because you still have joint cartilage.
Problem is you can't remember how to drive to the trailhead.
Yeah. You're able to backpack when you're eighty years old because you still have joint cartilage.
Problem is you can't remember how to drive to the trailhead.
Understood. Guess I need to take the whole 'die fast' mentality a little more seriously after my years of disregard for my cartilage so I'm not wheelchair bound at eighty. :cool:
Wise Old Owl
03-22-2011, 20:58
Here you go
Read this
http://www.adventurealan.com/2-4_index.htm
Nope. 5lb is the conventional definition of SUL.
You might wanna try backpackinglight.com, if you want a better discussion of things UL. The environment here is generally hostile to the idea.
SUL can stand for:
1) Super Ultra Light, or, alternatively:
1) Stupid Ultra Light.
There is a very, very fine line. If an SUL hiker crosses it he quickly finds out he/she is the latter.
Being self-sufficient is more satisfying to me than how little I can put on my back.
Wise Old Owl
03-22-2011, 21:13
Thanks Tinker after a few drinks that very, very fine line .... IS very hard to see, oh damn.
Camping Dave
03-22-2011, 21:24
So my question to you guys is if there is a somewhat accepted deffiniton of super ultralight from what I understand it is 10-12lbd for ultralight depending on trip duration but would a 6lb base pack weight for a 3night trip qualify as super ultralight ?
No. 4 pounds, skin out.
Wise Old Owl
03-22-2011, 21:26
Do not include Angel wings, or fairy dust... Way to heavy.
SUL can stand for:
1) Super Ultra Light, or, alternatively:
1) Stupid Ultra Light.
There is a very, very fine line. If an SUL hiker crosses it he quickly finds out he/she is the latter.
Being self-sufficient is more satisfying to me than how little I can put on my back.
I was just going to say something similar. Love heading out with a 12 lb pack, fully loaded for a 2.5 day trip.
But always, always, always have food, clothing and shelter adequate for the conditions I'll be in.
As long as I can get warm, out of the weather and a full belly I'm good to go.
aaronthebugbuffet
03-22-2011, 21:41
If your gear won't fit in a regular size front pants pocket, you are not SUL.
If your gear won't fit in a regular size front pants pocket, you are not SUL.
Including food!
Camping Dave
03-22-2011, 21:47
And be sure to shave.
I was reading a post about base weight in the JMT section. Now I all ways considered a bear can and any camp cloths or fuel containers to be base weight . But apparently some people trying to hit a number dont count things that put them over the limit. But I do know I would rather carry an extra 10 or 20 lbs on my back then on my gut.
All I know is that for every 2 lbs I drop My GF will give me at least one back. I cant complain too much, she carries all her own weight. I carry all my own weight and all of "our weight". I try and lighten up our stuff minus the kitchen (thats my luxury item) and she brings more cloths. I get a lighter tent, she gets camp shoes. I get us CCF pads instead of inflatables she brings a fleece for camp in case her hiking fleece smells and her down coat is too warm. I get crappy REI UL sleeping bag, she brings a box of wine. I cut unused strap's of my pack, she adds half a dozen unused carabiners. I leave behind compass and multi tool, she carries 10 - 20 L of water so she can get a better work out up hills. But it worth it to have a warm bed. :banana
Wise Old Owl
03-22-2011, 21:58
Shave? uhh On the AT? isn't that sacrilegious in several religions.... what? not a Mennonite?
Has anyone ever thought of attaching a small hydrogen filled blimp to your pack?
Shave? uhh On the AT? isn't that sacrilegious in several religions.... what? not a Mennonite?
Mennonites can shave. My father-in-law (recently deceased) was clean shaven all of his life, and he was married to one of the daughters of a Bishop of the Pennsylvania Mennonite church.
You must be referring to Amish, who only shave off their moustaches when they get married.
My bosses, observant Orthodox Jewish men, cannot shave according to Torah (but they can, and do, trim their beards).
Feral Bill
03-24-2011, 16:19
Mennonites can shave. My father-in-law (recently deceased) was clean shaven all of his life, and he was married to one of the daughters of a Bishop of the Pennsylvania Mennonite church.
You must be referring to Amish, who only shave off their moustaches when they get married.
My bosses, observant Orthodox Jewish men, cannot shave according to Torah (but they can, and do, trim their beards).
There are different Mennonite sects. In some the men all wear beards. They get it from the same bible quotes that give us the Orthodox Jews Pais and the Rastafarians Dreadlocks, maybe the beards of many Muslims, too. Small World.
Has anyone ever thought of attaching a small hydrogen filled blimp to your pack?
Hydrogen is old school. We're using helium these days....and flubber.
Nope. 5lb is the conventional definition of SUL.
.....
Think of SUL as a calculated gamble with hypothermia.
Wrangler88
03-24-2011, 18:11
SUL is pretty attainable and still safe if you buy a cuben shelter and pack. Or even cheaper if you make it yourself. For instance a fully enclosed shelter and pack made of cuben from Zpacks could weigh as less as 11 or 12 ounces. They have quilts around a pound. If you're a hard bodied type, a GG Thinlight pad can be trimmed down to less than 5 ounces. That's your main four items for 2lbs.
This leaves you 3 lbs. for all accessories. Obviously SUL is a lot easier to get to if you go stoveless.
It'd be expensive to get there if you go cuben. Cheaper if you go with Sil but it leaves a lot less amount of weight for essentials and it's less durable. If you're really serious about wanting to be SUL ... Backpackinglight is definitely the place to checkout. I feel like some people on Whiteblaze are a little hostile for some reason to the thought of UL and SUL. And some people on Backpackinglight are a little over the top. Spending hundreds of dollars to save an ounce or two.
It is an amazing feeling picking up a pack that weighs 5 - 10 lbs and knowing you have everything you need and watching others around you carrying 30 lb. packs. The downside is when you get to camp and you have all the things you need to survive and look up and see the people with 30 lb. packs pulling out pillows, mp3 players, 3" mattresses, 3 course meals, etc. It just depends on what you like more. I think UL is the happy medium between SUL comfort while hiking and camp comforts the people with heavier packs have. With all that said, I find it really fun trying to piece together (theoretically - don't have the money to buy nice gear I'd like) SUL kits and have everything I would need to camp and still have relative comfort.
Just some of my thoughts.
Wrangler88
03-24-2011, 18:13
Also, on BPL, baseweight is generally considered everything you carry in your pack, including your pack but not including, food, water, and fuel. The containers, all accessories, extra clothes, and everything else is usually included. I understand a lot of people are kidding in their responses, but just in case anyone is really wondering ...
SouthMark
03-24-2011, 19:03
Think of SUL as a calculated gamble with hypothermia.
Depends on your experience and skill level.
Skidsteer
03-24-2011, 19:15
Think of SUL as a calculated gamble with hypothermia.
The same could be said of cotton clothing.
Depends on your experience and skill level.
That pretty much nails it.
fiddlehead
03-24-2011, 21:08
Yeah. You're able to backpack when you're eighty years old because you still have joint cartilage.
Problem is you can't remember how to drive to the trailhead.
That's funny right there now.
SouthMark
03-24-2011, 21:33
From a post on BPL:
"How Light is Light Enough?"
Answer: You will know by a factor of "too": if you are too wet, too cold, too tired from lack of sleep, too hungry, too dirty, too scared, or too lost, you might need other options (or training).
trailangelbronco
03-24-2011, 22:06
To me, the key to really getting Super Duper Ultra light was reusing my toilet paper.
That made all the difference in the world.
That's funny right there now.
Well, it is a popular stereotype. But like most, it's not always accurate. I can still drive to the trailheads without difficulty, even debate intelligently on WB -- I sometimes think -- but I can't walk terribly fast once I reach the trails.
But regardless, I still try to do useful things -- and occasionally even succeed -- I think.
One of the reasons I like to get out in the woods is for simplicity in life. Why worry about what the "limits" are. Do what makes you happy and enjoy yourself. If you think 7 or 40 lbs is ultralight, it makes no difference to me or anyone else.
Az
hikerboy57
03-25-2011, 12:08
To me, the key to really getting Super Duper Ultra light was reusing my toilet paper.
That made all the difference in the world.
You can save a few more ounces by using leaves instead of TP, which would put you into the "extreme ultra superlight category".
Kerosene
03-25-2011, 16:23
To me, the key to really getting Super Duper Ultra light was reusing my toilet paper.
That made all the difference in the world.You bring TP???!
Blackbird
03-26-2011, 08:53
Loincloth, Buck knife, plastic water bottle is all you really need.
hikerboy57
03-26-2011, 08:57
Loincloth, Buck knife, plastic water bottle is all you really need.
skip the bottle, drink your own pee between water sources.
To me, the key to really getting Super Duper Ultra light was reusing my toilet paper.
That made all the difference in the world.
What's toilet paper?
Wise Old Owl
03-26-2011, 10:39
Mennonites can shave. My father-in-law (recently deceased) was clean shaven all of his life, and he was married to one of the daughters of a Bishop of the Pennsylvania Mennonite church.
You must be referring to Amish, who only shave off their moustaches when they get married.
My bosses, observant Orthodox Jewish men, cannot shave according to Torah (but they can, and do, trim their beards).
Thanks for the correction... I was trying to be funny and I live very close to Lancaster PA and we all have Mennonite Jorneymen for builders in the area. :-?
Wise Old Owl
03-26-2011, 10:40
Loincloth, Buck knife, plastic water bottle is all you really need.
Loincloths are too heavy, use a red thong.
hikerboy57
03-26-2011, 10:43
Loincloths are too heavy, use a red thong.
let your fingernails grow long, sharpen, dispose of the Buck knife
Wise Old Owl
03-28-2011, 18:09
oh if I must - better than wearing a thong or loin cloth.