View Full Version : Thru hike + paleo diet
goldenhands
03-23-2011, 09:51
has anyone gone paleo on a thru hike? i'm a competent dehydrator and pack most of my own meals anyway. just wondering if it's possible to go that long on a lo-carb diet.
thanks!
Lindsey
ShelterLeopard
03-23-2011, 10:31
High protein is better than high carb if you have to chose, but you may find yourself being willing to switch things up after a month on trail. Definitely better to try and subsist on meats and cheeses than little debbies and ramen.
ShelterLeopard
03-23-2011, 10:36
For me, I (wisely, it turned out) packed mail drops only for the first 5 weeks. I figured that there was no way I could no what I'd be craving after 5 weeks of hard hiking. Once my body started to really burn fat and get adjusted to hiking, I could really feel what food my body wanted and what I needed to run well. I ended up packing out a combination of a lot of fresh foods and delicious things, and protein bars which I'd previously thought to be bland and unappetizing.
Since I didn't like eating when I first woke up, I'd have a tiny bowl of grape nuts and carry several high protein bars that I could easily grab after the first mile and eat on the go. I had a BUNCH of either very protein filled or delicious and semi filling snacks, then dinner would be my big meal.
Whatever- I'll stop myself before I start to ramble.
PS- I knew a few vegans who did very well on trail, stayed healthy and stuck to their vegan-ness.
Pedaling Fool
03-23-2011, 10:50
I know there's a book on the paleo diet, never read it, but curious, when we say plaeo diet which group of cavemen are we talking about? Wouldn't the diet of say, people that lived throughout Africa differ from others, Africa is a very large land mass. Then you got the cavemen in the middle east (fertile crescent) what did they eat? Then how did those diets compare to people that moved out to populate the rest of the world?
I would imagine that these peoples ate whatever they could get their hands on, including some scanvenging, and didn't necessarily have a set diet.
In short, I'm a little skeptical about the paleo diet claims, but like I said haven't read the book.
You can do it, but it'll be pricey. And probably heavy as well.
I follow Mark's Daily Apple religiously in everyday life. I eat no grains of any kind, barely any sugar, and load up on protein and fresh produce. The health benefits have been great. For my thru, however, I just don't see a feasible way to keep on the diet. It would be possible to load up with produce in town, carry out some frozen meat to thaw along the way and whatever dried or pouched meat I could find. But I don't have the kind of budget that can handle eating like that on the trail, and I can't imagine carrying as much weight as I'd need to carry to do it. Adding carbs means I'll be able to fill up and get more calories for less money and less weight. That doesn't mean I won't try my best though - I have every intention of stuffing my bag full of produce and a frozen block of meat or two every time I stop for supplies. But in addition to that I'll also have Lipton packets, ramen noodles, oatmeal, bagels, and other grain items. I'll do primal in town, and eat like any other hiker on the trail.
Are you keeping a journal? If you're planning to stay on the diet for your whole thru, I'd love to be able to read about how you do it.
goldenhands
03-24-2011, 09:31
well, I'm currently working with my doctors to see if i have Celiac's disease after reading about food allergies recently. if i'm gluten-intolerant, then that would put a hitch in typical AT meal planning. I'm going on paleo for a few weeks to see if it makes a difference, and if it does.. well, i've got to think ahead to my 2012 thru!
Pedaling Fool
03-24-2011, 09:57
well, I'm currently working with my doctors to see if i have Celiac's disease after reading about food allergies recently. if i'm gluten-intolerant, then that would put a hitch in typical AT meal planning. I'm going on paleo for a few weeks to see if it makes a difference, and if it does.. well, i've got to think ahead to my 2012 thru!
There's a big difference between gluten intolerance and food allergy, but some symptoms can be similar and does require a doctor to determine which you have. http://www.the-gluten-free-chef.com/gluten-allergy.html
Are you lactose intolerant?
has anyone gone paleo on a thru hike? i'm a competent dehydrator and pack most of my own meals anyway. just wondering if it's possible to go that long on a lo-carb diet.
thanks!
Lindsey
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread25841.html
There was a blogger I read some time ago that was both VLC and a backpacker. I'll try and see if I can find that site again.
I know there's a book on the paleo diet, never read it, but curious, when we say plaeo diet which group of cavemen are we talking about? Wouldn't the diet of say, people that lived throughout Africa differ from others, Africa is a very large land mass. Then you got the cavemen in the middle east (fertile crescent) what did they eat? Then how did those diets compare to people that moved out to populate the rest of the world?
I would imagine that these peoples ate whatever they could get their hands on, including some scanvenging, and didn't necessarily have a set diet.
In short, I'm a little skeptical about the paleo diet claims, but like I said haven't read the book.
As to what early humans ate:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=interactive-seas-saved-humanity
(Thumbnail #3, click on 'Watch' on the bottom left)
As to the book, there are many authors but it all pretty much can be summed up by Dr. Harris (PaNu) and his 'getting started' post.
http://www.paleonu.com/get-started/
Early humans left Africa, for the most part, in search of food during climatic events. There is a broad definition of this diet but they all include the words 'pre-agricultural' and 'pre-industrial'.
Being Human from the Smithsonian:
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-evolution-timeline-interactive
and from PBS/Nova:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/becoming-human-part-1.html
Fog Horn
03-24-2011, 13:54
This might sound like a stupid question, but if you are going for a no grain diet, couldn't you load up on fresh vegetables and fruits, maybe a block of frozen meat, and some jerky? Would the jerky fit in the diet, and would it be able to sustain you until you could load up again in 3-5 days?
Pedaling Fool
03-24-2011, 15:35
As to what early humans ate:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=interactive-seas-saved-humanity
(Thumbnail #3, click on 'Watch' on the bottom left)
As to the book, there are many authors but it all pretty much can be summed up by Dr. Harris (PaNu) and his 'getting started' post.
http://www.paleonu.com/get-started/
Early humans left Africa, for the most part, in search of food during climatic events. There is a broad definition of this diet but they all include the words 'pre-agricultural' and 'pre-industrial'.
Being Human from the Smithsonian:
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-evolution-timeline-interactive
and from PBS/Nova:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/becoming-human-part-1.html
I was hoping someone could sum it up for me, but I'll try and get around to reading your links, thanks. BTW, I understand early humans left Africa, but not all of them, so not sure what you're sayin' there. My point is is that people are all over the world and thus the diets must vary greatly, so which diet? However, I see your point about pre-agricultural/industrial. So basically that sounds like a gluten-free diet. It all sounds suspiciously like just another marketing scam, but like I said I'll try and read your links.
But you also say "pre-industrial" so does that include foods produced using industrial methods, including petroleum-based fertilizers? If so that's a large cast of the net.
This might sound like a stupid question, but if you are going for a no grain diet, couldn't you load up on fresh vegetables and fruits, maybe a block of frozen meat, and some jerky? Would the jerky fit in the diet, and would it be able to sustain you until you could load up again in 3-5 days?
Fresh fruits and veggies...I don't know that's post-industrial stuff, cavemen didn't eat too much of that stuff, especially during the iceage:D;)
Pedaling Fool
03-24-2011, 15:42
This might sound like a stupid question, but if you are going for a no grain diet, couldn't you load up on fresh vegetables and fruits, maybe a block of frozen meat, and some jerky? Would the jerky fit in the diet, and would it be able to sustain you until you could load up again in 3-5 days?
Actually as I think of it paleo diet sounds more like a hybrid of gluten-free and organic diet. It seems like (still haven't read anything yet) that paleo diet practitioners would want to stay away from many of the fruits/veggies and meats because of the things found in those items are not naturally found if one were to harvest/hunt for any of these foods.
Although, like many other things there's probably different "circles" within this community...
Fog Horn
03-24-2011, 15:51
Fresh fruits and veggies...I don't know that's post-industrial stuff, cavemen didn't eat too much of that stuff, especially during the iceage:D;)
Then where did iceburg lettuce come from, if not the iceage? Hmmm?:-?:rolleyes:
chasegru
03-24-2011, 18:06
High protein is better than high carb
I'd maintain that high level of fat intake will be most critical of the three macronutrients.
has anyone gone paleo on a thru hike? i'm a competent dehydrator and pack most of my own meals anyway. just wondering if it's possible to go that long on a lo-carb diet.
thanks!
Lindsey
The diet allows you fruits and vegetables, but if you want to stay low carb, you're pretty much restricted to nuts. That will give you a lot of fat and protein. Then you add meat. Why starve yourself of carbs if you don't have to? You need energy to hike the trail. You need some protein, but you'll probably already get a lot without even trying, even without any meat whatsoever.
Start looking at your macronutrients. You want a fairly even mix. Something like a 30/30/40 carbs/proteins/fats split in terms of calories would probably serve you well. If you start cutting out an entire macronutrient, you're making your body work much harder than it needs to. You're planning to thru hike--your body will already be working very hard!
Don't screw with your body just to stick with a fad diet. Do what makes sense both to you and scientifically--hopefully those two are not entirely exclusive. And please note, I'm not saying you must get off the diet. I am saying that you should do what's right for you and your thru hike, and that may involve getting off that diet.
The diet allows you fruits and vegetables, but if you want to stay low carb, you're pretty much restricted to nuts.
Too many nuts/seeds on a Paleo diet will result in higher amounts of both lectins and Omega-6 EFAs. Inflammation could be a problem relying on that source for your fats.
If I were to plan a long Paleo-hike I'd carry pemmican, butter, coconut oil and coconut manna for protein and fat. As to carbs, rice or corn grits may be a good non-gluten source. https://store.nutiva.com/coconut-manna/?gclid=COSeuOu46KcCFUVqKgodkmz6aQ
Pedaling Fool
03-25-2011, 07:18
Kind of a surprising statements: http://www.paleonu.com/get-started/
I did read the other links, not much help; still going through the paleo link (many links within that link). Some surprising statements...it seems to be saying that we should have an animal-based diet and saturated fat does not block arteries.
... The "paleo" here signifies "old" and not necessarily paleolithic. The PāNu approach to nutrition is grounded on clinical medicine and basic sciences disciplined by knowledge of evolutionary biology and paleoanthropology. The best evidence from multiple disciplines supports eating a pastoral (animal-based) diet rather than a grain-based agricultural one, while avoiding what I call the neolithic agents of disease - wheat, excess fructose and excess linoleic acid.
FATS AND OILS - LIPIDS http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2009/6/22/fats-and-oils.html
Lipids are fatty acids or compound molecules composed of them. A fat is solid at room temperature and oils are liquid. Lipids are the key to PaNu. It is as much our misunderstanding of lipids as our misguided attachments to grains and fructose that is wreaking havoc with our health.
Saturated fat (SFA)
Saturated fats are generally solid at room temperature. Their saturation with hydrogen atoms makes them solid at room temperature as it affects the shape of the molecules as they pack together. This same saturation means they lack a reactive double bond between carbon atoms. In future posts, I will describe how this makes them less susceptible to oxidation, and therefore less likely to promote coronary disease and other diseases.
SFA does not cause heart disease or cancer and does not make you fat. To the contrary, the hormonal satiety and lack of insulin response from eating fats is the key to weight optimization and avoiding the diseases of civilization caused by hyperinsulinemia and high blood glucose levels - diabetes, metabolic syndrome, degenerative diseases like alzheimer dementia, and many of the commonest cancers.
Think of saturated fat as “anti- fructose” – they are both completely “natural”, but in a modern food abundant environment, SFA is healthy matter and fructose is evil anti-matter. This is the subject of future posts, but it involves satiety and the metabolic meaning of availability of these two food types.
Kind of a surprising statements...
Those surprising statements have been echoed in reports from the main-stream outlets; Time magazine, the NYT, LA Times, Men's Health and a host of others. Seems the initial research was flawed and the diet 'humans' have eaten for millions of years isn't the silent killer we've been led to believe--by the soy industry, the corn industry, the cereal industry, the low-fat, highly processed food industry.....
On the Primal/Paleo diet model, here is a post/site that links to the science (Show Me the Science) that drives the discussion.
http://girlgoneprimal.blogspot.com/p/show-me-science.html
In my diet, I eat +/-70% saturated fat*, +/-20% animal protein* and 5-15% carb. I avoid gluten grains, industrial-derived oils and HFCS.
*wild caught, organic or pastured when possible
Pedaling Fool
03-25-2011, 08:26
It's such a good mental picture -- solidified saturated fat and clogged arteries. However, one thought that always bothered me is that saturated fat does not just sit there in your body, there are things constantly "working on it" and your body is not at room-temp. So, I don't know maybe something there. But the question then is, what is that stuff that clogs the arteries?
Fog Horn
03-25-2011, 13:54
It's such a good mental picture -- solidified saturated fat and clogged arteries. However, one thought that always bothered me is that saturated fat does not just sit there in your body, there are things constantly "working on it" and your body is not at room-temp. So, I don't know maybe something there. But the question then is, what is that stuff that clogs the arteries?
Watch a documentary called "King Corn". Its a free Netflix download and you can find it for free online as well. Grains and corn are in EVERYTHING we eat, even mainstream meat products. From any research I've done on nutrition (which A)I don't follow because I LOVE corn and grains, and B)I could probably do more research on it before stating it) it is the corn and the corn bi-products and the grains that eventually clog our arteries because it is no longer grown naturally. Some high percentage of corn you see growing around you, for instance, is not even edible for human consumption.
It's such a good mental picture -- solidified saturated fat and clogged arteries. However, one thought that always bothered me is that saturated fat does not just sit there in your body, there are things constantly "working on it" and your body is not at room-temp. So, I don't know maybe something there. But the question then is, what is that stuff that clogs the arteries?
The problem is damage to the endothelium, the lining of the blood vessel, by chronic high insulin levels (among other causes). This attracts LDL to repair the damage. The analogy of cholesterol causing cardiac problems is likened to firemen causing the fire. In both cases, not a cause but on the scene as a result of a problem.
Recently I've heard of studies that link industrial oils (corn, canola, soy, etc) to endothelium damage. Seems these oils may lower total cholesterol (hence, heart-healthy) but they do so at the expense of HDL, too. They also are linked to making all cholesterol particles 'fuzzy' so they are more likely to stick to already damaged vessels, causing CHD.
The small, dense, artery-clogging cholesterol (type B) is predominately a product of sugar/fructose metabolism by the liver--a high carbohydrate diet. When you eat those heart-healthy saturated fats you create both large, buoyant type A particles and increase your HDL levels.
http://www.menshealth.com/health/saturated-fat
http://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-carbs-20101220,0,5464425.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+latimes%2Ffeatures%2Fhealth+%28 L.A.+Times+-+Health%29&utm_content=Twitter
and...
"A new national study has shown that nearly 75 percent of patients hospitalized for a heart attack had cholesterol levels that would indicate they were not at high risk for a cardiovascular event, based on current national cholesterol guidelines."
http://blog.zeroinginonhealth.com/2009/11/10/most-heart-attack-patients-cholesterol-levels-did-not-indicate-cardiac-risk/
Pedaling Fool
03-26-2011, 09:37
Yeah, I'm still not sold on this paleo diet thing, but the issue of fat in the diet has been interesting to me for a while. Because even the people that believe sat. fat should be reduced as much as possible dispute the LDL vs. HDL ratios, by a pretty good margin. However, when the message gets to everyone it's basically boiled down to comparing sat. fat to clogged arteries -- period, end of story.
I'm simply confused on this issue, but I'd agree that the government's official stance is wrong, by some degree, as well as many other authorities in this field. The problem is that when you read all the info out there, they all seem to make sense, nearly all of them. I think one's diet depends a lot on how active they are, but that really gets complicated, since we can't even get the fat-issue settled, let alone the carb issue. However, I do find the story about the tribe in Africa interesting as well as other accounts in this link http://www.menshealth.com/health/saturated-fat
Currently my idea of good food health is to NOT overeat (I tend to think that's the most important factor) and not be so afraid of sat. fat. I do however, eat a lot of carbs because I'm pretty active.
As for human diet over history, I still tend to think it varied greatly so to come up with a "paleo diet" I think paleo, that is an expansive period of time and area and climate conditions. Much more expansive than our neolitic-history. One thing I'm fairly certain on though is that the human body evolved being very active and eating very little, not at all how we live today.
As for human diet over history, I still tend to think it varied greatly so to come up with a "paleo diet" I think paleo, that is an expansive period of time and area and climate conditions.
Regardless of what variations were practiced in the widespread context of a 'Paleo' diet, it's more of a matter of what was NOT available as food, rather than a dissection of geographical differences in food selection.
Nice, short article on the worst mistake in human history:
http://www.ditext.com/diamond/mistake.html
Tarlach's "Seven Deadly Sins" (and a maybe?)
• Grains/Gluten (rice; corn?)
• Dairy (Butter; Cream?)
• Refined foods
• Nightshades (time for self-experimentation)
• Tubers (unless you can eat them raw)
• Legumes
• Modernly palatable (cashews/olives are maybes?)
Pedaling Fool
03-26-2011, 23:54
The thing is much of the food, not just the manufactured/refined food, is completely different than what's found in nature. Even a paleo diet has one eat foods different in some form from what's in nature, unless people are actually hunting and gatering. In the same way a dog is no longer like a wolf. It has to be that way to feed over 6 billion people –each one of which is a special unique individual with a soul.:D:sun
One of your links mentioned that watermelons are off-limits, but that fruit is native to South Africa. I imagine if those people came across watermelons I’m pretty sure they ate them. And bananas cannot be found in nature, totally man-made, you don’t even want to eat a “natural” banana. Then you got the class of legumes, that’s damn near a major staple of vegetarians; I’d be curious to know if there are any documented health problems in the vegetarian community. And then there's dairy products, which some of the paleo diet links advocate -- that's just as neolithic as any gluten-type foods, but we adapted to it. And then there’s many contradictions like this one quote from a previous paleo diet link:
Sweet potatoes, white rice and white potatoes are well tolerated by most people and starchy vegetables per se are not neolithic agents of disease. Many active people without diabetes or metabolic syndrome feel and function better with a fair amount of starch in their diet . YMMV!
That doesn’t match the 7 deadly sins of food.
There are many more examples, but suffice it to say that’s why I’m skeptical and generally for now just try and reduce my eating and stay active. However, I’m still very curious about the saturated fat issue, since even in the mainstream there’s a lot of controversy.
As for you link “Worst Mistake in History…” As soon as I started reading it I thought this was a rehash of a book I read not too long ago, Pandora’s Seed, by Spencer Wells, I think it was published in 2010. However, I noticed that your link was dated 1987…hmm…. And I thought Spencer Wells was introducing a new idea, guess not.
The link seems to be saying, since we’ve experienced some problems, which I agree many were a direct result of our new lifestyle, than we should turn back and live a “natural life”.
Any way this post is getting too long, suffice it to say I see a lot of holes in this whole anti-agricultural sentiment in that link, would like to go into, but I don't like doing long posts.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread25841.html
There was a blogger I read some time ago that was both VLC and a backpacker. I'll try and see if I can find that site again.
You have revealed my other name, I am Jedi Grok! (from the link)
haha :D
Hm....I checked out one website
My impressions:
1. The author has little to no relevant expertise. He reads X rays.
2. The author refuses to read nutrition research because 'nutrition programs are filled with idiots.' He's probably right, but doing research doesn't really take any more intelligence than any other job.
3. He cherry picks literature. It's not hard to google scholar or search Jstor for 'fats are good for you,' and find 10 papers that say 'fats are good for you.'
4. There aren't any legitimate medical studies that have been done on the Paleo diet. The anth-based studies seem to have some very serious flaws. We're not supposed to read nutrition because nutritionists are flakes, but reading Anth is the solution???
5. Gross anatomy and parallels in the animal world are ignored.
6. Exercise physiology is ignored.
7. Sustainability is ignored.
It seems like the author has some personal health issues digestive issues and has tried to form a nutritional theory around those issue.
It's pretty clear that there's problems with our reliance on corn, but it's really an issue of industries responding to over-subsidies. From what I know there was a drought in the late 1970s in the USSR and they bought about 1/5 of our corn, making prices in the US spike. Price floors for corn were set, and corn production is now subsidizes on the order of 35-40%. When there is a market for super-cheap calories, businesses will find a way to add value to those calories--industrial feedlots and processing of corn products into food, ethanol, cups, etc.
IMO there are enough good ideas in the paleo diet to warrant some research, but really the burden of proof is onto the party claiming that the status quo is wrong. If I follow a healthy carb-based diet/lifestyle, I know that I'll probably live till my early 80s. I know that I can perform athletically, I know that I'm minimizing my footprint, etc.
Here's one brief summary of human diet through the ages:
http://blog.zonediet.com/2011/02/28/a-short-history-of-the-human-food-supply/?utm_source=iPost&utm_medium=email&utm_content=continue-reading&utm_campaign=2011-03-20-Blog-WL
Hm....
7. Sustainability is ignored.
If I follow a healthy carb-based diet/lifestyle, I know that I'll probably live till my early 80s. I know that I can perform athletically, I know that I'm minimizing my footprint, etc.
A healthy, sustainable, carb-based diet:
"The truth is that agriculture is the most destructive thing humans have done to the planet, and more of the same won’t save us. The truth is that agriculture requires the wholesale destruction of entire ecosystems. The truth is also that life isn’t possible without death, that no matter what you eat, someone has to die to feed you."
http://www.amazon.com/Vegetarian-Myth-Food-Justice-Sustainability/dp/1604860804
And from this site: http://www.gnolls.org/947/live-now-live-later-paleo-diet-paleo-life/
“Paleo” is not just a diet or an exercise program. <snip> This is fun! If it’s a chore, you’re doing it wrong.
“Heart-healthy whole grains” are mostly carbohydrates, which is to say: sugar. The glycemic index of “heart-healthy” whole wheat bread (72) is greater than that of Skittles (71) (http://www.gnolls.org/905/mechanisms-of-sugar-addiction-or-why-youre-addicted-to-bread/). Metabolically, a whole wheat bagel is the same as two bags of Skittles.
Which may lead down this increasingly depressing path:
A male 20-year-old today can expect to spend 5.8 years over the rest of his life without basic mobility, compared to 3.8 years a decade ago — an additional two years unable to walk up ten steps or sit for two hours. A female 20-year-old can expect 9.8 years without mobility, compared to 7.3 years a decade ago.
Functional mobility was defined as the ability to walk up ten steps, walk a quarter mile, stand or sit for 2 hours, and stand, bend or kneel without using special equipment.
Maybe all those who justify their choices with, 'Tomorrow I could get hit by a bus' are counting on just that?
looks like you have some awesome citations. Books and websites from people with zero qualifications or education on the topics they write on, make false claims, and when they cite less than 10% of their sources are from peer-reviewed research.
Turn your brain on and fact check.
A healthy, sustainable, carb-based diet:
"The truth is that agriculture is the most destructive thing humans have done to the planet, and more of the same won’t save us. The truth is that agriculture requires the wholesale destruction of entire ecosystems. The truth is also that life isn’t possible without death, that no matter what you eat, someone has to die to feed you."
http://www.amazon.com/Vegetarian-Myth-Food-Justice-Sustainability/dp/1604860804
And from this site: http://www.gnolls.org/947/live-now-live-later-paleo-diet-paleo-life/
“Paleo” is not just a diet or an exercise program. <snip> This is fun! If it’s a chore, you’re doing it wrong.
“Heart-healthy whole grains” are mostly carbohydrates, which is to say: sugar. The glycemic index of “heart-healthy” whole wheat bread (72) is greater than that of Skittles (71) (http://www.gnolls.org/905/mechanisms-of-sugar-addiction-or-why-youre-addicted-to-bread/). Metabolically, a whole wheat bagel is the same as two bags of Skittles.
Which may lead down this increasingly depressing path:
A male 20-year-old today can expect to spend 5.8 years over the rest of his life without basic mobility, compared to 3.8 years a decade ago — an additional two years unable to walk up ten steps or sit for two hours. A female 20-year-old can expect 9.8 years without mobility, compared to 7.3 years a decade ago.
Functional mobility was defined as the ability to walk up ten steps, walk a quarter mile, stand or sit for 2 hours, and stand, bend or kneel without using special equipment.
Maybe all those who justify their choices with, 'Tomorrow I could get hit by a bus' are counting on just that?
Turn your brain on and fact check.
If one follows the links far enough, this information becomes available:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070926113835.htm
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.0040276 fiber study
http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/102/8/529.full
And then you get into observational studies that are more of a red-flag than clinical trials:
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/24/132745785/how-western-diets-are-making-the-world-sick <--NPR
There are sites that look at 'known facts' and 'statistics' that tell a different side of what 'everybody knows':
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/09/02/the-china-study-wheat-and-heart-disease-oh-my/
As to a particular diet, I only wish there were more vegans and vegetarians as well as those who eat heart-healthy-whole-grains and cholesterol-lowering-vegetable oils. Only because it means there is less competition for my foods, the ones similar to those humans have eaten for millions of years.
the first link I clicked (rawfoodsos)was an analysis of public health data where the author didn't control for income, age of death, or many relevant factors (including the intake of refined wheat, which we ALL know is bad)-- and the obvious heteroscedasticity of her usage of the data isn't mentioned/dealt with. Convincing to an intelligent layman, but ultimately it's just smoke, mirrors, and some chick who read a 10 page article on statistics.
They are finding that sat fat intake is less of a factor in heart disease than previously thought. (ajcn) Interesting.
the NPR article doesn't relate to the paleo diet at all.
The sciencedaily article has nothing to do with nutrition, that I can tell. The fact that insulin receptors in neurons are removed by some toxic protein is not related to your staple source of calories or to blood sugar.
The oxford article says that an increase of 200 g of fruits/veggies a day (1 piece of fruit and a handful of salad) was associated with a 3% reduction in cancer risk. That's a good thing, right?
I don't think that anyone is convinced that humans/human ancestors lived off of animal fat for millions of years.
I don't think that anyone is convinced that humans/human ancestors lived off of animal fat for millions of years.
The human body has to have both protein and specific fats. There isn't an essential carbohydrate; grains were not a major factor in our developmental diet. The Paleo diet isn't about animal fat alone. It's about eating natural fats and protein, vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, herbs and spices, while avoiding those dietary inclusions that lead to both chronic inflammation (seed oils, soy, refined grain) and chronic high insulin levels (refined grain, refined sugars, fructose).
Again, I have no interest in what anyone eats as long as they see healthy results and make decisions based their own experiences. The West has been following the relevant nutritional expertise since the McGovern committee's report--leading to the USDA food pyramid. Those recommendations have led to this:
http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/trends.html
No thanks.
I'll take my chances ignoring the conventional wisdom and try a more ancestral approach. Counting out the October 23, 4004 BC 6:30 pm crowd, that puts us squarely before our reliance on domesticated grain.
jaggednib
08-26-2011, 13:43
I really don't understand why everyone thinks it's so hard to go paleo backpacking. I think the hardest part might be getting the fat. However, if you carry a tub of coconut oil (which would add a bit of weight to the pack) then it might not be too hard.
Make up a batches of guacamole and dehydrate it. I mashed up an avocado with some cherry tomatoes, salt, onion powder and lots of lemon juice. Dehydrate it and then pulverize it in a food processor. Home made, healthy guacamole powder. Obviously this will cost you your weight in gold if you make enough to take your through the trail, but it would add a significant amount of fat to your diet.
Sweet potato bark works great too. Boil up two sweet potatoes, strain, mash with salt and pepper and then put in the food dehydrator. You can rehydrate it and add a packet of tuna or dried sausage and some dried veggies like onions or mushrooms.
Dehydrating stuff really reduces weight and it's really simple to rehydrate.
I even made a delicious chowder for dinner one night, with sole and salmon and tons of dill, and sweet potatoes with coconut milk and bacon. I tossed the left overs in my food processor until it was a thick mush then put it in the dehydrator. When it was done dehydrating I put it back in the food processor to make it into a powder. Now I have chowder powder that I can add some tuna and some veggies, coconut oil and maybe even some more sweet potatoes (dehydrated of course!) for a healthy filling paleo meal. You can make chili, sweet potato 'chips', pumpkin bark (I got the recipe from http://www.backpackingchef.com... (http://www.backpackingchef.com/pumpkin-pie-bark.html)1) 15 ounce can pumpkin¼ cup real maple syrup2 tsp pumpkin pie spice (cinnamon, nutmeg, ginger, allspice)
I added way more cinnamon and it turned out great.
You could make a beef or chicken broth and veggie soup. You could add squash (or sweet potatoes if you're not sick of them yet) for carbs and to make the soup thick. Blend it all with a hand blender or a food processor until it's gloopy. Toss it in the dehydrator and when it's time to rehydrate it, you can add tuna, chicken, or ham and a splash of oil. Bring sesame to put an asian twist on it. You could even add some other dehydrated veggies to it to make it more chunky. This stuff dehydrates to almost nothing and when it's rehydrated you have thick, delicious meals.
You can still be paleo and eat a lot of carbs, and when you're exercising, you definitely need the carbs. You don't have to give up carbs or eat low carbs when you go paleo. This is a great website for paleo information, even though I find the backpacking/camping ideas for food kind of limiting. http://www.paleoplan.com/2011/06-07/paleo-for-the-active-person/
Pedaling Fool
08-26-2011, 17:58
I really don't understand why everyone thinks it's so hard to go paleo backpacking. I think the hardest part might be getting the fat. However, if you carry a tub of coconut oil (which would add a bit of weight to the pack) then it might not be too hard.
Make up a batches of guacamole and dehydrate it. I mashed up an avocado with some cherry tomatoes, salt, onion powder and lots of lemon juice. Dehydrate it and then pulverize it in a food processor. Home made, healthy guacamole powder. Obviously this will cost you your weight in gold if you make enough to take your through the trail, but it would add a significant amount of fat to your diet.
Sweet potato bark works great too. Boil up two sweet potatoes, strain, mash with salt and pepper and then put in the food dehydrator. You can rehydrate it and add a packet of tuna or dried sausage and some dried veggies like onions or mushrooms.
Dehydrating stuff really reduces weight and it's really simple to rehydrate.
I even made a delicious chowder for dinner one night, with sole and salmon and tons of dill, and sweet potatoes with coconut milk and bacon. I tossed the left overs in my food processor until it was a thick mush then put it in the dehydrator. When it was done dehydrating I put it back in the food processor to make it into a powder. Now I have chowder powder that I can add some tuna and some veggies, coconut oil and maybe even some more sweet potatoes (dehydrated of course!) for a healthy filling paleo meal. You can make chili, sweet potato 'chips', pumpkin bark (I got the recipe from http://www.backpackingchef.com... (http://www.backpackingchef.com/pumpkin-pie-bark.html)1) 15 ounce can pumpkin¼ cup real maple syrup2 tsp pumpkin pie spice (cinnamon, nutmeg, ginger, allspice)
I added way more cinnamon and it turned out great.
You could make a beef or chicken broth and veggie soup. You could add squash (or sweet potatoes if you're not sick of them yet) for carbs and to make the soup thick. Blend it all with a hand blender or a food processor until it's gloopy. Toss it in the dehydrator and when it's time to rehydrate it, you can add tuna, chicken, or ham and a splash of oil. Bring sesame to put an asian twist on it. You could even add some other dehydrated veggies to it to make it more chunky. This stuff dehydrates to almost nothing and when it's rehydrated you have thick, delicious meals.
You can still be paleo and eat a lot of carbs, and when you're exercising, you definitely need the carbs. You don't have to give up carbs or eat low carbs when you go paleo. This is a great website for paleo information, even though I find the backpacking/camping ideas for food kind of limiting. http://www.paleoplan.com/2011/06-07/paleo-for-the-active-person/
I think you're a troll, so I'm not going to open those links. However, in case you're not then maybe you can enlighten me on how much of the foods listed above can be considered as a paleolithic diet, since many of them were never available to our paleolithic ancestors. Have you ever seen a wild tomato, it's not even recognizable, never mind it's not edible. Columbus (indirectly) is the reason Italians have tomato sauce, not nature and not our paleolithic ancestors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience
I just have to say that 2 years now after my long distance hiking I am pretty darn certain that I totally destroyed my metabolism and metabolic flexibility eating a high carb backpacking diet. So I am looking into what kinds of foods I can bring that are high in saturated fat and protein and also tasty and easy to carry in a pack. I'm wondering if it's possible to use coconut creme or coconut butter to make various kinds of bars. Maybe pemmican bars or nut and chocolate nibs bars with it. I've got some fun experimenting to do.
Piper....any bar that calls for oil you can sub in virgin raw coconut oil or virgin raw coconut butter (has the fiber and pulp). DO use raw as it isn't processed, most coconut oil is highly refined.
As for my diet...I don't follow fads - I just eat what makes me feel good - in and out. I eat a lot of weird foods to most people though ;-)
Yeah, but is the coconut butter tasty? Does it hold up well in the pack or melt all over and make a huge mess? What f it's really cold out, will it be impossible to scoop out with my spoon? I bought some but haven't opened the jar yet.
Daydream Believer
10-30-2011, 20:01
I just saw this thread. My husband and I started on the Paleo Diet back in March. I'd been gluten free for a while due to Celiac but was still packing about 20 lbs more than I wanted. He was over 40 lbs overweight. We both felt like crap and all the diets we tried before, we just could not sustain. So we got the books and read and then gave it a try. Over a month I transitioned to a grain free, dairy free diet. I ate a lot of fruit and didn't really limit my carbs other than to cut potatoes out (as well as the gluten free grains). We both started dropping weight like crazy and the most amazing thing was how we reshaped...built muscle, lost love handles, and for the first time ever dieting, I was NOT hungry or miserable. Simply amazing. We are still doing Paleo now and consider it our lifestyle.
I recently backpacked for 4 days eating Paleo. A good book for athletes is "Paleo for Athletes" where Dr. Cordain talks about how to eat...and while it does not talk specifically about backpackers and our unique needs, it does talk about how your most high carb meal should be dinner...not breakfast or lunch which should be lighter before your exercise. He does OK potatoes for an athlete that really needs the carbs as well as sweet potatoes.
Anyway, what I ate was way different than any of my earlier hikes. I hardboiled some of my home raised eggs and ate those for several days. It was quite cool and they kept fine. I also made some muffins with almond flour and they were a nice touch for breakfast or a snack. They kept fine also. Almond flour is a fantastic substitute for grain flower...it has a much lower glycemic index, high proteins and it considered a superfood. Of course you'd have to make it for yourself and that is not very practical on a thru hike but if you have someone sending food at pick up points...maybe a spouse or other family member...they could cook, vacuum seal them and you'd still have a week or two to enjoy them. My lunches were dried fruit like dried bananas, peaches, and raisins, nuts, jerky, and again..lighter stuff but still some carbs. Dinner was usually a dehydrated gluten free meal like shepherds pie or hash browned potatoes with meat...i also did have a rice based meal that set well with me. I'd maybe snack a bit more on my trail mix and then hang my food back and call it a night. Kept me happy until breakfast. I had no digestive issues and held my weight.
I felt fine and other than a twisted knee coming off of Clingman's Dome, I'd have gone another three days just fine. When I went down to Gatlinburg, what I missed the most was the salad and greens...something I eat a lot of at home. I would really miss that on a thru hike.
Being gluten free is tough. Taking trail magic would be a PITA as so much that they hand out is full of gluten/grains. I know better than to eat it any more as it will seriously mess me up. I try to think "poison" when I see a wheat product...and it might as well be for what it does to my body.
I forgot to add that my husband lost 40 lbs without even exercising on Paleo and I lost over 20. Incredible. We both feel great. The odd thing is that once you do this, if you go back and try to eat grains, particularly wheat, again, you will feel like crap. It is self policing...and you truly do desire the healthier foods after a while. My weakness remains chocolate but dark chocolate is not so bad!
I'll end my post with a book recommendation...an amazing read. It's called "Wheat Belly" and is written by a Cardiologist. His research turned up the fact that today's wheat is not the same as it was 50 years ago due to some aggressive and questionable hybridization techniques. It contains more gluten now and some new gluten proteins never before found in the human diet. It is no wonder you see so much more Celiac and gluten intolerant people now than ever before. He talks about how wheat has a higher glycemic index than sugar and how it ties into the visceral fat accumulation...therefore...the wheat belly so many people carry around today. He shows also that wheat is as addictive as some narcotics to some people and literally has brain effects through polypeptides called Exorphins that cross into the brain after you consume wheat. The book is footnoted and the studies supporting his book are in the back of the book. It explains an awful lot about some of the modern health issues we see today as we are encouraged to eat more and more servings by the government of wheat...and here it is a freakish plant nothing like wheat even 50 years earlier. I highly recommend reading it. You can get it on Amazon.
Daydream Believer
10-30-2011, 20:05
I wanted to add also that I'm going to experiment in making some Paleo friendly high energy bars for myself using dark chocolate and/or honey as a base, almonds, raisins, flax, walnuts, pecans, sunflower seeds, dried fruit, etc...and then vacuum seal them up to keep better. I think your imagination is the limit. I never thought of using coconut butter as a binder. Another option is nut butter such as almond butter. You can even buy it fortified with flax for higher Omega 3's. :)
urbansix
11-01-2011, 07:32
I have been eating paleo (really more like "primal (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/)" Mark Sisson style, since I do include dairy) for about a year now. I am daunted at the prospect of what to do for a (hypothetical future) thru hike. My hiking food system is based on freezer bag method, with home-made dehydrated meals. But I can't foresee pre-packaging more than a few weeks worth of meals without getting sick of it or at least bogging down in logistics. Also can't foresee being able to town-resupply and stay primal and light at the same time.
That said, here is what my food looked like for a week long hike this summer:
Breakfast: Protein shake
Lunch: Justin's almond butter / hard salami / maybe some natural hard-ish cheese
Dinner: Chili or Picadillo (rehydrates very well if using ground beef. Avoid beans or solid meat as they don't rehydrate well at all.) / vegetables (mix of zucchini, yellow squash tomatoes, onions) / mashed yams
Also: homemade trail mix / homemade beef jerky / hot sauce / olive oil supplement.
All of the dinner items dehydrated in freezer bags, only cooking 1 meal per day.
Wise Old Owl
11-03-2011, 22:50
Then where did iceburg lettuce come from, if not the iceage? Hmmm?:-?:rolleyes:
cant do that foghorn... if we back up corn to 100,000 years ago the indians were eating a grass that was 6 inches high and were cultivating it for the seeds almost before that mini corn at that time... I am sure lettuce wasn't on the menu... but legumes - cattails were on the menu. If anyone has read those books - I will pay for shipping.