View Full Version : Patent or not to patent is the question
Mtn Scout
03-23-2011, 21:12
i am nearing completion of building a hiking related item. its actualy getting some machine work done right now. There is absolutely nothing like this on the market and i know it will sell. i have been reading about getting a patent. Does anyone on here have any experience with this type of thing?? I have also heard about selling the idea???:-?
i am nearing completion of building a hiking related item. its actualy getting some machine work done right now. There is absolutely nothing like this on the market and i know it will sell. i have been reading about getting a patent. Does anyone on here have any experience with this type of thing?? I have also heard about selling the idea???:-?
We have had our company name and a few product names copyrighted but never had an occasion to get a patent.
Here's a good place to start http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/howtopat.htm
I always say patent. It gives you legal protection for your product, but if you decide that competition is ok, you can always license inexpensively/freely to encourage innovation. If you don't patent it, you're just hosed no matter what.
-Smalls
i am nearing completion of building a hiking related item. its actualy getting some machine work done right now. There is absolutely nothing like this on the market and i know it will sell. i have been reading about getting a patent. Does anyone on here have any experience with this type of thing?? I have also heard about selling the idea???:-?Have no actual experience but I believe that when a patent is filed for something, it goes into the "patent-pending" mode whereby for a certain amount of time before the patent is granted I believe other's/competitors don't have access to the patent information regarding the product?, but once the patent is granted, other companies can access your products patent info, copy your product, create a slight improvement/enhancement, and release it for sale, thereby cutting in to your profits. I believe one way to prevent this from happening while you are in the process of sales is to first secure a companies backing to immediately mass produce and market your product for sales while in/right before the "patent-pending" stage, preventing the onslought of cheap knockoffs, which everyone has seen done to most new innovative inventions. Another way to deal with this also, a little trick marketing strategists know of, is right before the "patent-pending" stage is due to end and the patent is given, is to slightely change something on your design, and then to reapply for a "new" patent, to buy even more selling time by reentering into the "patent-pending" stage all over again. As many inventor's know, the patent system in this country does not favor the inventor:-?. Good Luck
WaitingInTheWeeds
03-23-2011, 22:19
I don't have experience personally, but my brother has gone through the process. Do NOT go through the company InventHelp. They ripped my brother off big time and he got nowhere with his design. He eventually hired a lawyer who specialized in patents and it made the process much easier. Sure a lawyer isn't cheap, but if your serious about your product and you think it'll make a lot of money then its more of an investment really.
I don't have experience personally, but my brother has gone through the process. Do NOT go through the company InventHelp. They ripped my brother off big time and he got nowhere with his design. He eventually hired a lawyer who specialized in patents and it made the process much easier. Sure a lawyer isn't cheap, but if your serious about your product and you think it'll make a lot of money then its more of an investment really.I agree with you on this. I did some reading and the author of the book I read on this stated that the way to go is by hiring a patent attorney. Forget those invention submission companies, as they will charge you big money with little/no results.
Cedar Tree
03-24-2011, 03:48
Have no actual experience but I believe that when a patent is filed for something, it goes into the "patent-pending" mode whereby for a certain amount of time before the patent is granted I believe other's/competitors don't have access to the patent information regarding the product?, but once the patent is granted, other companies can access your products patent info, copy your product, create a slight improvement/enhancement, and release it for sale, thereby cutting in to your profits. I believe one way to prevent this from happening while you are in the process of sales is to first secure a companies backing to immediately mass produce and market your product for sales while in/right before the "patent-pending" stage, preventing the onslought of cheap knockoffs, which everyone has seen done to most new innovative inventions. Another way to deal with this also, a little trick marketing strategists know of, is right before the "patent-pending" stage is due to end and the patent is given, is to slightely change something on your design, and then to reapply for a "new" patent, to buy even more selling time by reentering into the "patent-pending" stage all over again. As many inventor's know, the patent system in this country does not favor the inventor:-?. Good Luck
I disagree with just about all of this. If your patent doesn't protect from small changes to get around your patent, then your patent claims suck. The first thing to do is search yourself. You can do a lot at the uspto website, but also check out googlepatents.com. I hate to say it, but most people that have contacted me about a patent, have found their idea to already be patented, even if it is not already on the market. There are lots of things you need to know. Contact me through my website and I would be happy to discuss the process with you. If you are serious about getting a patent, get started today, because your "patent clock" has already started ticking.
Cedar Tree
www.thepacka.com
Trailweaver
03-24-2011, 04:51
Hire an attorney. They make money because they earn it doing work you don't know how to do. Believe me, if you want a patent, you will be protecting your idea and your money with the help of an attorney. It's not money wasted, it's money saved in the long run.
agree with hiring an atty for this, I have a number of patents and you'll need professional help. the first step is a search to see if the idea is really novel and patentable. then you have to see if you have freedom to operate (FTO) meaning are there patents out there that block you? a patent doesn't give you the right to sell your invention, it gives you the right to block others from selling it. to use an example - if someone invents a chair and has a patent on it, and you invent a rocking chair, you can't sell your rocking chair without a license from the chair guy or gal. even if your invention is new, someone else may have another patent that would block you.
Finally - don't disclose any of the key details of your invention publicly or you'll lose the foreign patent rights - you need to keep it secret until the patent is filed at least. the atty will tell you all this and more.
If you want to contact an attorney I've had experience with in this area I can give you a referral. The guy we used for our copyrights is excellent.
A patent is often used for a process (like creating a drug, or a machine), a trademark or servicemark is for name/logo protection. See below.
Some people confuse patents, copyrights, and trademarks. Although there may be some similarities among these kinds of intellectual property protection, they are different and serve different purposes.
What Is a Patent?
A patent for an invention is the grant of a property right to the inventor, issued by the Patent and Trademark Office. The term of a new patent is 20 years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States or, in special cases, from the date an earlier related application was filed, subject to the payment of maintenance fees. US patent grants are effective only within the US, US territories, and US possessions.
The right conferred by the patent grant is, in the language of the statute and of the grant itself, “the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling” the invention in the United States or “importing” the invention into the United States. What is granted is not the right to make, use, offer for sale, sell or import, but the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, selling or importing the invention.
What Is a Trademark or Servicemark?
A trademark is a word, name, symbol or device which is used in trade with goods to indicate the source of the goods and to distinguish them from the goods of others. A servicemark is the same as a trademark except that it identifies and distinguishes the source of a service rather than a product. The terms "trademark" and "mark" are commonly used to refer to both trademarks and servicemarks.
Trademark rights may be used to prevent others from using a confusingly similar mark, but not to prevent others from making the same goods or from selling the same goods or services under a clearly different mark. Trademarks which are used in interstate or foreign commerce may be registered with the Patent and Trademark Office. The registration procedure for trademarks and general information concerning trademarks is described in a separate pamphlet entitled "Basic Facts about Trademarks".
What Is a Copyright?
Copyright is a form of protection provided to the authors of “original works of authorship” including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works, both published and unpublished. The 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to reproduce the copyrighted work, to prepare derivative works, to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work, to perform the copyrighted work publicly, or to display the copyrighted work publicly.
The copyright protects the form of expression rather than the subject matter of the writing. For example, a description of a machine could be copyrighted, but this would only prevent others from copying the description; it would not prevent others from writing a description of their own or from making and using the machine. Copyrights are registered by the Copyright Office of the Library of Congress.
Just an FYI, attorneys who handle copyrights usually can handle patents as well. Ours does.
swjohnsey
03-24-2011, 08:52
Does the potential profit from your invention approach the cost of the patent process? Patents are just about worthless unless you have the deep pockets to enforce them.
fredmugs
03-24-2011, 09:14
Take a lesson from the inventor of the Slanket.
http://www.northfloridainjurylawyer.com/2009/11/the_snuggie_the_slanket_the_th.html
When I was working and someone came up with a new idea or product the first thing we did was to write up a summery of what it was and have it dated by a notary-public. I was told this is the first line of defence to protect your idea. It costs very little to do.:-?
Slo-go'en
03-24-2011, 10:31
For a specialty product in a nitch market, I would not bother with a patent. Your money would be much better spent in production and disturbution. Once you have proved that it WILL sell, then maybe patent it.
beakerman
03-24-2011, 10:34
The first misconception about patents is what they do...all patents do is state claims. Each of these claims is just that until they are chalenged in court.
I work with IP all the time in my job so I have a little backgorund knowledge on this sort of thing.
My personal opinion is file what is called a provisional patent. It costs about $100 and provides the same protection as a regular patent for 12 months from th issue of the patent. You don't need a lawyer to do it either just document what you have and state what it does.
If you don't convert to a regular patent with in the 12 months it becomes public domain and you have no protetion but nobody can lock you out of it by filing before you.
Patents are all about filing dates. The early bird gets the worm. So if you have an idea and someone else beats you tot he patent office with it you are screwed...welcome to the long nasty road involving lawyers and log books to "prove" it was yoru original idea and even then its a crap shoot. File the provisional and when someone tries to patent it they will call it prior art and not issue the patent.
So the priovisional provides IP protection for 12 months, which you can extend into a normal life cycle for a patent, and it prevents someone from locking you out of your idea, assuming you filed the provisional before them. It does all of that for a lot less $$ than a full blown patent.
I disagree with just about all of this. If your patent doesn't protect from small changes to get around your patent, then your patent claims suck.http://meylah.com/meylah/what-to-do-when-your-product-gets-copied
MkBibble
03-24-2011, 12:53
since i don't really have anything relevant to offer, i thought i would just share this. you might enjoy it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mkbibble/5556313450/sizes/l/in/photostream/
beakerman
03-24-2011, 14:24
since i don't really have anything relevant to offer, i thought i would just share this. you might enjoy it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mkbibble/5556313450/sizes/l/in/photostream/
I like that!
We have had our company name and a few product names copyrighted ...
You probably mean trademarked.
To the OP: Patenting is an expensive and complicated process. Make sure your product is sufficiently marketable and sufficiently distinct from "neighboring" products in the market to merit the expense and effort of patenting, trademarking the name, etc.
Even if you don't hire an attorney, it's not cheap. But hiring one is probably a necessity, at the end of the day. There's a reason why the pass rate for attys who take the patent bar is so low. It is rocket science, or close to it. I am an atty myself with a science background and have toyed with the idea of taking the patent bar. Have also invented or contemplated a few things which were, imo, after extensive searches, patentable. One was insufficiently distinct in the marketplace and its utility insufficiently strong relative to competition for someone in my shoes to pursue it. One had been done, the third was technically infeasible in a highly technical field (aeronautics, in which I have no schooling).
All of which is to say, patent it if it's worth your while. Just kick the tires not only on the product itself, but its place in the market as well. If worthwhile get a good atty, and get investors to help finance that if need be.
beakerman
03-24-2011, 16:12
You probably mean trademarked.
To the OP: Patenting is an expensive and complicated process. Make sure your product is sufficiently marketable and sufficiently distinct from "neighboring" products in the market to merit the expense and effort of patenting, trademarking the name, etc.
Even if you don't hire an attorney, it's not cheap. But hiring one is probably a necessity, at the end of the day. There's a reason why the pass rate for attys who take the patent bar is so low. It is rocket science, or close to it. I am an atty myself with a science background and have toyed with the idea of taking the patent bar. Have also invented or contemplated a few things which were, imo, after extensive searches, patentable. One was insufficiently distinct in the marketplace and its utility insufficiently strong relative to competition for someone in my shoes to pursue it. One had been done, the third was technically infeasible in a highly technical field (aeronautics, in which I have no schooling).
All of which is to say, patent it if it's worth your while. Just kick the tires not only on the product itself, but its place in the market as well. If worthwhile get a good atty, and get investors to help finance that if need be.
Or spend some time searching for an existing patent (easy enough to do for free/low cost on the web) yourself and if nothing is jumping out at you as your idea having already been patented spend $100 and file a provisonal patent to protect your intelectual property..think of it as a $100 insurance policy against some big company stealing your idea before you can bring it to a full patent application--which takes considerable time.
Then do your market research and any further development work to see if it justifies the expense of a full blown patent application. You may get through all of that and find you idea is not patentable for a number of reasons.
Or spend some time searching for an existing patent (easy enough to do for free/low cost on the web) yourself and if nothing is jumping out at you as your idea having already been patented spend $100 and file a provisonal patent to protect your intelectual property..think of it as a $100 insurance policy against some big company stealing your idea before you can bring it to a full patent application--which takes considerable time.
For sure. Provisional patent is a nice first step, after some significant up-front homework to check prior art in the patent database. Problem is, checking prior art is highly tricky. Not child's play. Also, a key, to the OP, is that provisional patent filing starts the formal clock ticking, which means you've gotta get on top of it in earnest. No dilly dallying.
colonel r
03-24-2011, 20:00
I have 3 patents and these are my summations.
If you patent then you become the marketing guru for your product by mfg yourself, sub it out or sell it outright.
Otherwise, you could sell the idea, using a non disclosure agreement, to present it to companies that already have the marketing in place.
My patent cost about 10K. I did the patent research and the dwgs.
Next time I will sell the concept and forget the patent.