waterproof/windproof toplayer

[Gacy]

I have no idea what to go with for my top layer of warmth I am using thermal long underwear for the bottom fleece for the wicking and I dont know what to go with for the top. some idiot at a local sports store suggested a huuuuuge 400 dollar parka that must have weighed easily 8 pounds. any suggestions would help.:-?

[robo]

i go with a long sleeve t-shirt , a shirt, fleece & rain jacket, it's always worked for me , i'm also not starting till april 2

[lpasztor]

You might want to consider a light weight Marmot Precip jacket as your outer layer.

[grrickar]

You should go with layers, not one bulky top - department store guys must not get out and hike much.

For cold temps I would look into something like this: thermal underwear base layer (Duofold makes some cheap stuff that is good, check it out at Campmor), then a lightweight fleece pant and a Polartec fleece vest or jacket, fleece gloves, wool socks, and a breatheable rain jacket/pant combo such as Marmot's Precip line or REI Ultralight. REI does have a variation of the ultralight line that is lined for more warmth, but is heavier. Top it all off with a fleece balaclava, beenie or neck gaiter and you should be set.

[Moose2001]

Gacy - first I would not recommend hiking in your "thermal long underwear" top. It's way too warm and you'll want to keep it dry for camp. Most of us do not hike with the outer waterproof layer on UNLESS it's raining and cold or really windy. It's just too warm.

I'd recommend either the Marmot Precip or Frog Toggs. Lots of hikers have sucessfully used both.

[Bloodroot]

Like others I recommend the Marmot Precip. Personally, I'm using Patagonia Capilene as the base layer.

[LIhikers]

Here's what I used this past weekend when the temps were in the low 20s. On top my base layer was a long sleeve, zip-up turtle neck made out of polypropelene. Then a long sleeve, button shirt of polyester, and then a 200 weight fleece vest. On the bottom I wore duofold long underwear, nylon long pants, and knee high gaiters. Add to those items fleece gloves and hat or headband. When we stopped for lunch I added a long sleeve, zip-up 200 weight fleece shirt. I was also carrying a hooded, nylon wind breaker. This for a weekend where the day time temps were in the 20s and the night time temps. were in the low teens.

[DangerPea]

I hiked in 2001 with a marmot precip. I think they have improved the technology they use since then. Also, the precip is a relatively economical way to go.

But if you have a few more dollars to spent, I HIGHLY and I can't emphasize that enough, HIGHLY recommend the Integral Designs eVENT jacket. This jacket is the most waterproof yet breathable jacket I have seen or used. I also did pretty intensive research before I settled on this jacket. I have a medium & it weight 9 oz. I believe this is about the same as frog toggs. The hood on the event is extremely effective and plenty deep which was an issue I had with both the precip & frog toggs. The cut on the event is much nicer than frog toggs.

If however the eVENT was just a little too steep in the price department though, I think I would actually have to choose frogg toggs over the precip. Now, the precip does look a lot sportier & nicer, but the froggs are a lot more breathable which in the end keeps you a lot drier. They also dry out faster than the precip once soaked through. I found the the precip just wetted out really fast and the breathability was lame.

The eVENT I can keep on even on a long climb. I could never do that in my precip or frogs. I got mine on sale from prolitegear.com:

www.prolitegear.com (http://www.prolitegear.com/)

check out the IG eVENT too:

http://www.integraldesigns.com/product_detail.cfm?id=763

If you want a comprehensive evaluation of the different jackets on the market check out:

www.backpackinglight.com (http://www.backpackinglight.com/)

You might need to get a subscription to view in full, but this on-line mag is pretty good so I thought it was worth it...

[David S.]

I experienced an epiphany yesterday as I was out day hiking the AT in the Smokies. It was absolutely beautiful and clear with 2 inches of snow on the ground...perfect for pictures but not enough to hinder walking. The temp was varied between 10 and 25 degrees depending on whether the trail was in shade or sun. I was wearing a Smartwool baselayer on my torso and a Marmot Precip over that to break the wind. I was hiking at a pretty good pace to stay warm. 30 minutes into the hike I began to feel that "icey hot" sensation. It was like my core temperature was plenty warm but my skin and base layer felt damp and cold. (I do not like this because when I stop, I rapidly get cold) I attempted to ventilate by opening the front of the Precip. When I did so, I noticed there were ice crystals on the inner lining of the jacket. I took it off and there were beads of water and ice crystals forming everywhere! My baselayer was damp but still warm. I stuffed the Precip into my pack and pulled out my Montbell Thermawrap jacket...knowing that it is plenty breathable. The difference in my comfort was night and day. I continued to hike at the same level of intensity while my base layer dried out completely and my temperature was perfect...no "icy hot" cold skin or damp baselayer...just dry warm comfort.

My assumptions based on this experience are:

1. If I wanted the precip to work better in those temperatures, I needed more layers than just the baselayer so that I could effectively open the pit zips and front without being to cold from the resulting ventilation. (I would have opened the front and pit zips earlier but I could tell that the draft of cold air would be another problem...more insulation might have eliminated that...but I'm still not certain of it.)

2. There seems to be no real need for wearing a waterproof layer once the temperatures get to where water turns into a solid. (is this correct?) Once its cold enough, it seems that it may be more important to have a breathable, wind blocking shell over a good insulator rather than something that is waterproof/breathable. The Thermawrap did a really good job of blocking the wind, breathing and insulating without being to warm. The more I use the Thermawrap, the more I like it.

3. If it had of been above 30 degrees and raining, I'm not quite certain what my stratagy would have been. Something VERY breathable over a single baselayer seems like it would be ideal. If its raining and I am wearing the Precip, I have the options of: A. Keeping it all zipped up, wetting it out and possibly getting cold if I need to stop for any amount of time. Or. B. Opening the pitzips for some marginal ventilation but ultimately, probably still wetting it out and risking being cold if I need to stop. C. Ditch the precip altogether and wear a windproof and highly water resistant shell over the top of a thin 100 weight fleece baselayer that would hold the wet shell off my skin. The shell would ultimately become saturated with rain water but would shed and direct most of the water away from the fleece...fleece doesn't like water anyway.

4. An eVent rain jacket may provide the ultimate breathability, windproofness and water proofness all in one...but its way out of my budget. I will wait untill it is more proven and hopefully the price comes down. :-?

[TakeABreak]

Marmot Precip. would be my outerlayer of choice, it has plenty of ventilation. It is what I wore and use all the time for day hiker here in MI, when temps are between 25 - 55, great wind breaker also. You will get some moisture build up but, depending on how fast you hike and how far. If you see you are too warm just take it off, or an inner layer if it's raining.

Remember when you stop for a break or lunch or what ever you will cool down, the cooler it is the faster you will cool down. So on cool days add a layer when stopping for a while.

Also always change your shirt when stop for the end of the day, your back will be wet from hiking with a pack on, even with polypro shirts. This will keep you from colling down to quickly, preventing the onset of hypothermic type symptons.

Change your socks at lunch time, give your feet a chance to breathe and as soon as have changed your shirt. you will feel more relax and it will keep your feet from cold as quickly.

[Footslogger]

I experienced an epiphany yesterday as I was out day hiking the AT in the Smokies. It was absolutely beautiful and clear with 2 inches of snow on the ground...perfect for pictures but not enough to hinder walking. The temp was varied between 10 and 25 degrees depending on whether the trail was in shade or sun. I was wearing a Smartwool baselayer on my torso and a Marmot Precip over that to break the wind. I was hiking at a pretty good pace to stay warm. 30 minutes into the hike I began to feel that "icey hot" sensation. It was like my core temperature was plenty warm but my skin and base layer felt damp and cold. (I do not like this because when I stop, I rapidly get cold) I attempted to ventilate by opening the front of the Precip. When I did so, I noticed there were ice crystals on the inner lining of the jacket. I took it off and there were beads of water and ice crystals forming everywhere! My baselayer was damp but still warm. I stuffed the Precip into my pack and pulled out my Montbell Thermawrap jacket...knowing that it is plenty breathable. The difference in my comfort was night and day.==================================
The trick is to avoid evaporative cooling against the skin. On a day with varying temps this can really be a challenge. I used to try and keep track of this effect years ago while hiking in winter.

I think you have 2 choices: Either start out with less clothing (base layer), which can be a little uncomfortable at first or use a base layer that gets the moisture from perspiration away from the body.

My personal choice was the first above. I'm a little chilly at first but once my motor starts running I'm comfy. Unless it's raining, I wear a fleece or highly pourous outer layer that transfers the moisture to the outsidem where it can evaporate without causing a cooling affect at the skin level.

That said though ...it's still a challenge at times and hard to find a happy medium. In the long haul though, I believe the best overall solution is to wear as little as possible against the skin while you're hiking. Then when you stop for a rest, add layers to retain the heat your body has generated. And, has been already stated, always get out of your wet clothing and socks as soon as possible once you're done hiking for the day.

'Slogger
AT 2003