general food questions (cals, planning, etc)

[stonedflea]

i'll be leaving here in a few weeks (!!!!), and i'm semi-clueless when it comes to packing and planning food.

i'll say this, i WON'T be using a dehydrator and mailing myself things. recipes and shipping and planning and buying is just too labor/thought/planning intensive for me right now.

other than "planning" your four to six months' worth of food in advance and cooking and shipping it to yourself, how do y'all plan and portion y'all's meals? i know some people say, "oh, you need X amount of calories per day." so do you just aim for 5,000 calories and then just sit down and say, "okay, that's three packs of ramen with vegetable oil added, two peanut butter sandwiches, etc." or do you not worry about calories and just take what you can pack?

also, i will be hiking with limited funds. i aim to spend no more than $1,500 on my thru. i might indulge myself a little bit, but i won't be able to afford to spend a night a week in hotels and ordering two large pizzas while i take a hot shower. some people say, "oh, you say you don't plan on doing that, but just wait til you get on the trail. everything changes." well... it can't for me. i won't be able to afford to stay on the trail if i'm blowing money left and right like that. i spent hundreds of dollars on a tent and a bag. that's what i bought them for.

SO... being on a budget, and not dehydrating my food, what's the best way to plan? i can do ramen five days a week, and maybe even seven, if i get to add spaghetti sauce and chicken packets to it. i've done it in society. :)

i know you only need between 3 and 6 days' worth of food for pretty much the entire way, obv. other than the 100MW, so i don't guess my question is "how do you plan so you have enough room for your food in your pack" but moreso "how do you plan for food for calories and budget combined?"

thanks in advance. y'all are great. :)

[ScottP]

I don't see how you can thru-hike on $1,500. You'll spend almost half that just getting to and from the trail.

[ShelterLeopard]

You can probably do it if you try hard enough. But trying hard enough not to spend more than 1,500 means not only not spending a night a week in hotels, but not spending more than a night a month in a hostel. Not eating out more than once when you head into towns to resupply, and not getting pints of either beer or ben & jerry's right and left.

[ShelterLeopard]

Don't get discouraged by money, but be prepared. If you get badly hurt or sick, you may need to spend days in town and money on doctor visits. (I ended up spending a week in Harpers Ferry, money on the hostel, four doctor visits, grocery food, and prescription medication.)

[general]

don't limit yourself. shop for what's on sale. one grocery store might have lipton on sale 4 for a buck, and the next might have instant mashed potatoes or something else. look for the deals and buy what you can carry. not a whole bunch of calories in the ramens though, and the season packets have a ton of msg.

[WingedMonkey]

It sounds obvious but when you get to a place to buy food and restock...do that first and eat while you do it. What don't fit in your pack or weighs too much, eat it. This will keep you away from the two large pizzas.

[shaman.in.a.yurt]

When it comes to food planning, you can count calories if you want.. OR you could plan based on weight. This stems from the NOLS (national outdoor leadership school) method they teach participants. Basically you carry 1.5-2lb of dry foods per day per person. What weight you carry is based upon your energy output.

Then you break down that 1.5-2lbs into basic categories:

If carrying 1.75 lbs per day (per person):
Trail foods: 0.53 (granola, raisins, etc.)
Dinner: 0.32 (Pasta, instant potatoes, pasta, veggies, etc)
Breakfast: 0.28 (granola, oatmeal, hash browns, etc)
Dairy: 0.24 (Butter, hot chocolate, powered milk/eggs)
Cheese: 0.22
Flour/Baking: 0.13 (white/wheat flour, corn meal, rice or something)
Sugar/Drinks: 0.12 (brown/white sugar, honey, drink mix, jello, etc)
Soups/Dessert: 0.09 (brownie mix, fig bars, bullion cubes, etc)

Then add in some sort of meat or TVP (textured vegetable protein) or jerky or something

This is at least one way to do it, call ration planning. By carrying a bunch of basic ingrediants you can make whatever you feel like eating each day! Or even bake breads at camp... but this can add weight and $$$ to the hike.

Hope this helps some. It's nice to see "yall" on here, I miss the South. Lived in charleston (on folly) all summer working for the county parks :banana

[shaman.in.a.yurt]

Oh, when i said it adds weight and/or money, I meant taking a baking device. Not ration planning.

This is all pretty well outlined in their book the NOLS Cookery. Should be pretty cheap to get

[royalusa]

First make a note of some sample menu items and what constitutes a meal or a snack, for you, based on your requirements (budget & space & weight). For example:

Breakfast:
3 pkg flavored oatmeal = 1 meal
18 oz old fashioned oatmeal = 6 breakfasts (add raisons & walnuts)
2 poptarts = 1 breakfast

Snacks:
1 pound peanuts = 6 snacks
1 pound raisons = ? snacks
1 Snickers/candy bar = 1 snack
4 fig newtons = 1 snack


Lunch:
1 pound peanut butter = 8 sandwiches
6 ounces summer sausage = 5 sandwiches
1 pound (brick) cheese = 5 sandwiches
1 tortilla = 1 sandwich

Dinner:
1 or 2 Ramon
1 Mac & Cheese
1 Mashed Potato (4 ounce)
1 Stuffing


A daily diet might include 1 breakfast, 1 lunch, 1 dinner and 4 snacks. You just need to find out what works for you.

Fill out a blank shopping list in pen on the items you might want for each meal. Before you hit the store, fill in the quantity to buy in pencil so you can use the shopping list over and over again as you progress up the trail. It might look something like this:

Breakfast:
__ Oatmeal pkgs
__ Ounces Oats
__ Dehydrated Milk Envelops
__ Raisons/Walnuts (also snack item)

Lunch:
__ Tortillas
__ Bagels
__ Summer Sausage (ounces)
__ Brick Cheese (ounces)
__ Peanut Butter (ounces)

Snacks:
__ Snickers/Candy Bars
__ Fig Newtons
__ Peanuts/Walnuts/Almonds (ounces)
__ Raisons (ounces)

Dinners:
__ Ramon
__ Mac & Cheese
__ Mashed Potato (4 ounce envelop size)
__Stuffing
__ Tuna/Chicken Envelops


This is just a sample. It needs to be tailored for you!! We use this general idea on all of our hikes now and it seems to work for us. We also make a note on what “Immediate Eats” we want to buy. That list typically includes fresh fruit, milk, yogurt, cheese, bagels, ice cream, deli sandwiches, etc. If you are trying to save money, you can buy a lot of “immediate eats” from the grocery store a lot cheaper than hitting a restaurant. If you identify the food items that meet your budget and space/weight requirements now, it’ll make it that much easier when you hit the trail.

[stonedflea]

I don't see how you can thru-hike on $1,500. You'll spend almost half that just getting to and from the trail.
i've got a ride to springer and who knows.. i might just stay in maine once i get there.


You can probably do it if you try hard enough. But trying hard enough not to spend more than 1,500 means not only not spending a night a week in hotels, but not spending more than a night a month in a hostel. Not eating out more than once when you head into towns to resupply, and not getting pints of either beer or ben & jerry's right and left.



Don't get discouraged by money, but be prepared. If you get badly hurt or sick, you may need to spend days in town and money on doctor visits. (I ended up spending a week in Harpers Ferry, money on the hostel, four doctor visits, grocery food, and prescription medication.)
i'm not a big drinker to brgin with, and i don't drink beer when i do, so i won't have to worry about the tempting six pack in the grocery. i've heard that alcohol can really up the price of a thru, but that's one thing i can say for sure won't happen for me. as for the medical emergencies, those are unforseen and i can begrudgingly accept that as an acceptable reason for coming off the trail. running out of $ because i pampered myself too much early on, i can't. thanks for your input. :)


don't limit yourself. shop for what's on sale. one grocery store might have lipton on sale 4 for a buck, and the next might have instant mashed potatoes or something else. look for the deals and buy what you can carry. not a whole bunch of calories in the ramens though, and the season packets have a ton of msg.
i actually don't like the seasons. i just use ramen in the general, cheap noodle sense. you're right, though, about shopping around. :)



Hope this helps some. It's nice to see "yall" on here, I miss the South. Lived in charleston (on folly) all summer working for the county parks :banana
thanks for all that! i'll check into all that info and do a bit more research on that method. :) i love takin' my dogs to folly. actually went to a wedding out there yesterday. i just miss the mountains.

[ScrapIron]

Couldn't hurt to send yourself a box or five on the trail. That'd be the best way to avoid the inevitable impulse spending that one will do when shopping while starving to death.

[Papa D]

you can do it on $1500 but it won't be a luxury hike that everyone has gotten so used to - stay out of towns almost all together - you'll get some trail magic I'm sure and you can also politely "yogi" a bit if you are willing to hang out in campsites on the weekends with "week-end backpackers" - they often simply give you food if you chat with them a bit about your thru-hike. Good luck

[stonedflea]

First make a note of some sample menu items and what constitutes a meal or a snack, for you, based on your requirements (budget & space & weight).

This is just a sample. It needs to be tailored for you!! We use this general idea on all of our hikes now and it seems to work for us. We also make a note on what “Immediate Eats” we want to buy. That list typically includes fresh fruit, milk, yogurt, cheese, bagels, ice cream, deli sandwiches, etc. If you are trying to save money, you can buy a lot of “immediate eats” from the grocery store a lot cheaper than hitting a restaurant. If you identify the food items that meet your budget and space/weight requirements now, it’ll make it that much easier when you hit the trail.

loved your checklist, and the idea! thanks so much.. that really helps! :)

[dragoro]

I'll probably be stoned for this but what ever.

I have some kind of bar (cliff, granola, what ever) for breakfast and lunch, and ramen for dinner. I carry a few extra that I throw in when I need it, but for most part thats it. I'm 6'1 and 200lbs.

[Toli]

loved your checklist, and the idea! thanks so much.. that really helps! :)

Check out their journal of a loop of the BMT/AT right outta their front door... Brakeman and Grasshopper ROCK!!!

http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=10946

[DapperD]

i'll be leaving here in a few weeks (!!!!), and i'm semi-clueless when it comes to packing and planning food.

i'll say this, i WON'T be using a dehydrator and mailing myself things. recipes and shipping and planning and buying is just too labor/thought/planning intensive for me right now.

other than "planning" your four to six months' worth of food in advance and cooking and shipping it to yourself, how do y'all plan and portion y'all's meals? i know some people say, "oh, you need X amount of calories per day." so do you just aim for 5,000 calories and then just sit down and say, "okay, that's three packs of ramen with vegetable oil added, two peanut butter sandwiches, etc." or do you not worry about calories and just take what you can pack?

also, i will be hiking with limited funds. i aim to spend no more than $1,500 on my thru. i might indulge myself a little bit, but i won't be able to afford to spend a night a week in hotels and ordering two large pizzas while i take a hot shower. some people say, "oh, you say you don't plan on doing that, but just wait til you get on the trail. everything changes." well... it can't for me. i won't be able to afford to stay on the trail if i'm blowing money left and right like that. i spent hundreds of dollars on a tent and a bag. that's what i bought them for.

SO... being on a budget, and not dehydrating my food, what's the best way to plan? i can do ramen five days a week, and maybe even seven, if i get to add spaghetti sauce and chicken packets to it. i've done it in society. :)

i know you only need between 3 and 6 days' worth of food for pretty much the entire way, obv. other than the 100MW, so i don't guess my question is "how do you plan so you have enough room for your food in your pack" but moreso "how do you plan for food for calories and budget combined?"

thanks in advance. y'all are great. :)I think you may be sorry you are only allowing yourself to spend $1500 for your entire trip. This is not to say you won't be successful, or enjoy yourself, but as I have learned from many educated thru-hiker's on this site, after a while your appetite is really going to kick in. Subsisting the entire way on ramen and vegetable oil with chicken packets and sauce added or peanut butter sandwiches may sound great in theory, however I don't think that once you are out there for awhile you will be satisfied eating this day in and day out. Your hunger is going to become profound. Deny yourself the foods you need to maintain energy and remain positive, and your hike will be shortlived. Also getting off trail into a room and a nice bed every now and again will become desireable when you are wet and cold or hot and exhausted and in need of town comforts. There is nothing wrong with hiking in a thifty way. But as many of the experienced thru hiker's know, money problems are one of the top reasons potential end to enders leave the trail. Having some extra funds available in reserve, even if they aren't needed, is never a bad idea. Nor is spending a little bit more than one may have originally planned to. Have a great hike:sun

[garlic08]

I did what you're doing as far as food planning--that is, none. It worked fine. My food expense for my thru hike in '08 was less than $800 on trail food, but nearly that much again on town food. If I didn't have the money for town food, I would have spent a few hundred more on trail food, I think. So I think you can easily feed yourself on $1500, but you can't do too much more than that.

I hiked with a partner who shopped at the same stores I did at the same time and he managed to spend nearly twice as much as I did. I bought more bulk stuff, less packaged, with an eye on prices. He didn't.

The food "formula" that worked for me was to carry one pound for every 10 to 12 miles, depending on trail difficulty. If I hiked a long day, I'd eat more. On an easy day, I'd eat less. So in the HMW, for instance, I carried nine pounds. The first two days were hard, the last two were easy so it all worked out fine. I carried 100 miles' worth several times on the hike to avoid expensive towns or towns that were off trail. I carried a mix of carbs and fat (cheese and nuts) to give an average density of 130 to 140 calories per pound. It worked fine for me. Good luck figuring out what works for you.

[Tinker]

Here's a minor way to save money: Cook over wood fires as often as you can. Fuel is one of those expenses that you can really shave if you're careful.
If you like peanut butter you're in luck. From what I've seen and read it's one of the staple protein/fat combinations that most hikers carry (I use it, but I haven't done more than a couple of weeks at a time).
Knorr/Lipton dinners are inexpensive (some store brands are as good and less expensive as well) and easy to prepare. You can add canned fish or meat for more protein, and adding a bit of cooking oil (canola or olive) can boost the calories.
When you get to town to resupply, head for the grocery store and buy something filling to eat (lunchmeat, cheese, etc.) before you head to a restaurant. You won't eat two helpings and you'll save money, too.
Carry a bit of perishable, fresh food for your first night away from town and you'll be able to stomach (pun intended) the rest of the days until your next resupply better.

[garlic08]

...I carried a mix of carbs and fat (cheese and nuts) to give an average density of 130 to 140 calories per pound...

Oops! I meant per ounce, not pound.

Tinker has good advice about peanut butter, eating less in restaurants, and carrying fresh food. Fuel, too--I didn't carry a stove and that saved some money, too, though I didn't think about that at the time.

[general]

one of my friends finished a thru on less than $900, not counting gear, which was all donated. it can be done. if you need to go to town to get dry, or rest, or what ever, share a room with other folks. pay someone a little money to sleep on their floor. the opportunities to save money are numerous, and the opportunities to drop mega bucks are numerous as well. i personally spent about 8 grand between springer and port clinton pa in 2000, and wouldn't change a thing.