View Full Version : Trail magic theory
Freedom Walker
04-04-2011, 20:15
I have to admit that I don't have a lot of experience hiking on the Appalachian Trail, but I have been fascinated by the discussion of trail magic. Personally, I don't have a problem with it. I feel I could just say no thank you and go on and that would be the end of it if I didn't want whatever was given out.
But I have been to the ATC webpage and read the various articles that they have listed concerning trail magic. From reading those articles it seems like the biggest problems come from leaving food and drink unattended, some expecting money for what they offer, going into the wilderness areas away from paved roads, offering alcoholic drinks and of course not cleaning up after one another. Additionally, many of those who offer trail magic have themselves hiked the Appalachian Trail.
This got me to thinking and I have a theory. Don't ask me why, but I thought about the second Rocky movie when Rocky was told he could not box anymore because of the injury that affected his vision. He told his trainer he would do anything just to hang around boxing. Between sparring rounds, he even emptied the spit buckets. His trainer asked him, "Rocky, why are you doing this". Rocky answered, "I just have to be around it". So that is why I believe hikers want to provide trail magic. They may have hiked the big hike or they would like to, they can't do it now, but providing trail magic they are cheering on those who can. Like Rocky they just have to be around it.
Now the website also said that another form of trail magic is to volunteer to help maintain trails. Not everyone can do this either because of time constraints or physical abilities. But those who can such as me should consider trail maintenance. It would be difficult for me because I live about 5 Hours away, but maybe I could do it once or twice a year.
In conclusion, I believe education rather than condemnation is the proper way to deal with trail magic gone crazy. The last thing we need is trail magic police. I totally understand why those of you who don't approve of trail magic don't want your hike interrupted by it. I'm not sure what the answer is. I heard once that the Appalachian Trail was called America's trail, and because of this along with various books and documentaries about it, more people are going to be hiking it than ever before. So on weekends between road crossings, we should expect for people traffic to the heavier each and every year. There was once a famous quote that said, "Can’t we all just get along".
Go to the ATC webpage if you would like to read the articles concerning trail magic.
Lone Wolf
04-04-2011, 20:31
"Trail Magic" the term should be changed to "Hiker Feeding". that's really all it is. real trail magic is rare and unexpected on the part of the giver and receiver
hikerboy57
04-04-2011, 20:38
I had always though of trail magic as being unexpected, otherwise, why is it magic?.whats next-- trail magic listings in the thru hikers companion?
max patch
04-04-2011, 20:39
Don't confuse trail magic with pre-planned feeds.
don't feed the hikers !!!
Panzer
Freedom Walker
04-04-2011, 20:51
Don't confuse trail magic with pre-planned feeds.
Pre-planned feeds then is Trail Magic gone too far? What is the answer then. Tolerance.
hikerboy57
04-04-2011, 20:55
I cant tolerate intolerant people.
Lone Wolf
04-04-2011, 20:56
Pre-planned feeds then is Trail Magic gone too far?
two different things
mweinstone
04-04-2011, 21:00
the opening post is to large and boreing and long and about a topic for witch nothing need be said. you guys are discussing the merits of merit. dont bother. silly stuff this dislike of magic. weird how opinionated folks are. asking if magic is good or bad is like asking if being alive is. the highest mark of our civilization is cold beverages. let it go.
Lone Wolf
04-04-2011, 21:05
magic is good. feeds are ignorant. the money and food at them should go to people in need, not walkers on vacation with packs full of food and wallets full of cash
mweinstone
04-04-2011, 21:10
magic is good. feeds are ignorant. the money and food at them should go to people in need, not walkers on vacation with packs full of food and wallets full of cash
magic is irrelevent
ignorance is irrelevent
money, food, people, need, walkers on vacation with packs full of food are irrelevent
only the intentions of the ones who leave dirty old coolers with tiny jucies keep the universe from collapsing.
Toolshed
04-04-2011, 21:11
Trail magic is when stars come together and an unexpected kindness is passed on usually unplanned by both parties.
All this other crap is useless hiker feeds:rolleyes:.
We know what happens to bears ducks, geese and other wildlife when you keep feeding them??? Ever see how bears congregate around garbage dumps? Pretty soon you have to shoot the bears because they now expect to be fed and wil simply take the food.
Soon someday, we may have to shoot the hikers too......:D
feeds aren't charity. They're more like having your friends over for dinner and telling them not to bring anything. Always appreciated, however.
Magic is a random act of kindness. Always appreciated.
WingedMonkey
04-04-2011, 21:26
A hiker eating seven jesus burgers is obscene gluttony.
Lone Wolf
04-04-2011, 21:27
A hiker eating seven jesus burgers is obscene gluttony.
and only 30 miles into the walk
sheepdog
04-04-2011, 21:41
Trail magic is when stars come together and an unexpected kindness is passed on usually unplanned by both parties.
All this other crap is useless hiker feeds:rolleyes:.
We know what happens to bears ducks, geese and other wildlife when you keep feeding them??? Ever see how bears congregate around garbage dumps? Pretty soon you have to shoot the bears because they now expect to be fed and wil simply take the food.
Soon someday, we may have to shoot the hikers too......:D
A fed hiker is a dead hiker???:D
Blissful
04-04-2011, 21:58
How many threads do we have to have on this subject where beloved people say the same things over and over? (I say beloved 'cause I still like 'em anyways)
So...
Hiker feeds rock!
(Commercial) Meet you all at SNP at Smith Roach Gap on May 27 for the third annual Hiker Picnic. Be there or be really and truly square.
So There!
:)
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/event.php?eid=162255727165465
max patch
04-04-2011, 22:08
(Commercial) Meet you all at SNP at Smith Roach Gap on May 27 for the third annual Hiker Picnic. Be there or be really and truly square.
ATC discourages pre-planned feeds; also says that those that have them should not publicise them.
ShelterLeopard
04-04-2011, 22:19
I like food. If you offer me cookies, I'll usually take 'em. I LOVE cold drinks. If you offer me an ice cold drink, I'll always take it. I don't yogi.
magic is good. feeds are ignorant. the money and food at them should go to people in need, not walkers on vacation with packs full of food and wallets full of cash
I couldn't agree more
ShelterLeopard
04-04-2011, 22:31
I sometimes bake cookies for hikers and bring 'em to the trail (and maybe a cooler filled with $5 worth of cheap but ice cold soda), the cost is next to nothing. If you want to spend all your money on charitable causes, that is great. But I like to spend about $10 a year on hikers. Guess I'm just a bad person...
I sometimes bake cookies for hikers and bring 'em to the trail (and maybe a cooler filled with $5 worth of cheap but ice cold soda), the cost is next to nothing. If you want to spend all your money on charitable causes, that is great. But I like to spend about $10 a year on hikers. Guess I'm just a bad person...
No. Just not terribly wise.
mweinstone
04-04-2011, 22:58
shelterleaperd is wise has cookies and hikes hard. shes the real dealy. the future froliking dino of the future. the best of the best. you not know. ive tasted the cookies.
So that is why I believe hikers want to provide trail magic. They may have hiked the big hike or they would like to, they can't do it now, but providing trail magic they are cheering on those who can. Like Rocky they just have to be around it.
I agree with you. This is exactly why I have done the things I have done after hiking the trail.
- I got my boyfriend to drive over 1000 miles driving hikers to and from the PCT kickoff just because I really wanted to be part of the energy. I only attended kickoff so I could be part of the energy.
- I did some section hikes when I knew thru-hikers would be there so I could be part of the energy.
- I attended a hiker feed and brought a box of avocados because I remembered how much I really wanted avocados when I was hiking. I just had to be around the hikers.
- I still read the PCT-L because I wish it was me doing all the planning an preparing.
- This year I don't know if I will get to be part of it again. I keep trying to think up ways I could get back on the trail, even for just a long weekend. I miss the trail so much. It was such a wonderful experience. I'm not ready to let go.
But real trail magic is when the other person doesn't know that they've provided magic. It's serendipity. It's the gift economy of the universe. Me bringing avocados is just me wanting to be a part of the energy and hoping to make someone happy. That may be nice, but it's not trail magic.
Keep the Magic coming angels. Don't be swayed by the naysayers. Most hikers truly appreciate all the trail magic we can get. True some hikers have money, but many I know are barely scraping by. Even so any magic really rocks, and an unexpected beer, burger or coke really makes all the difference when the spirit is lagging. Back to back big mile days and mac and cheese dinners really sap the mood some days. Thanks kindly for all you leave out.
PS M&M's rock, and cheap beer goes a lot farther then the expensive stuff and is just as good after long miles.
max patch
04-04-2011, 23:11
I'm going to the Masters this weekend. I'm passing out pimento cheese sandwiches and ice cold cokes to the golfers when they leave the 12th tee.
Freedom Walker
04-04-2011, 23:17
But real trail magic is when the other person doesn't know that they've provided magic. It's serendipity. It's the gift economy of the universe. Me bringing avocados is just me wanting to be a part of the energy and hoping to make someone happy. That may be nice, but it's not trail magic.
if one person brings a case of cold bottled water along with some cookies to a trail crossing, is that trail magic? I guess it would be to the hiker who is out of water and needs to go five more miles to his destination, but not to others. But if someone brings a grill and picnic table and plans to feed the masses, I guess that is a hiker feed.
I have to admit that I don't have a lot of experience hiking on the Appalachian Trail, but I have been fascinated by the discussion of trail magic. Personally, I don't have a problem with it. I feel I could just say no thank you and go on and that would be the end of it if I didn't want whatever was given out.
But I have been to the ATC webpage and read the various articles that they have listed concerning trail magic. From reading those articles it seems like the biggest problems come from leaving food and drink unattended, some expecting money for what they offer, going into the wilderness areas away from paved roads, offering alcoholic drinks and of course not cleaning up after one another. Additionally, many of those who offer trail magic have themselves hiked the Appalachian Trail.
This got me to thinking and I have a theory. Don't ask me why, but I thought about the second Rocky movie when Rocky was told he could not box anymore because of the injury that affected his vision. He told his trainer he would do anything just to hang around boxing. Between sparring rounds, he even emptied the spit buckets. His trainer asked him, "Rocky, why are you doing this". Rocky answered, "I just have to be around it". So that is why I believe hikers want to provide trail magic. They may have hiked the big hike or they would like to, they can't do it now, but providing trail magic they are cheering on those who can. Like Rocky they just have to be around it.
Now the website also said that another form of trail magic is to volunteer to help maintain trails. Not everyone can do this either because of time constraints or physical abilities. But those who can such as me should consider trail maintenance. It would be difficult for me because I live about 5 Hours away, but maybe I could do it once or twice a year.
In conclusion, I believe education rather than condemnation is the proper way to deal with trail magic gone crazy. The last thing we need is trail magic police. I totally understand why those of you who don't approve of trail magic don't want your hike interrupted by it. I'm not sure what the answer is. I heard once that the Appalachian Trail was called America's trail, and because of this along with various books and documentaries about it, more people are going to be hiking it than ever before. So on weekends between road crossings, we should expect for people traffic to the heavier each and every year. There was once a famous quote that said, "Can’t we all just get along".
Go to the ATC webpage if you would like to read the articles concerning trail magic.
My observatiuons suggest that relatively little of trail magic comes from former thru hikers. Most seems to come from trail wanna bes.
But I don't know of any formal studies, one way or the other.
Lone Wolf
04-05-2011, 02:54
if one person brings a case of cold bottled water along with some cookies to a trail crossing, is that trail magic? I guess it would be to the hiker who is out of water and needs to go five more miles to his destination, but not to others. But if someone brings a grill and picnic table and plans to feed the masses, I guess that is a hiker feed.
neither gesture is "magic". it's just feeding and watering
If people wanna feed my face and I wanna chow down, hey, let's make everyone happy and eat - I don't see people twisting my arm and forcing the issue, it's a voluntary pig-out!
Thanks to all you Angels who share, maybe we can learn something from you in this capitalistic country that we live in.
aaronthebugbuffet
04-05-2011, 08:04
A hiker eating seven jesus burgers is obscene gluttony.
What is a jesus burger?
Pedaling Fool
04-05-2011, 08:06
What is a jesus burger?
Never heard that term either, but willing to bet it's a big ass greasy burger with all the fixin's
Never heard that term either, but willing to bet it's a big ass greasy burger with all the fixin's
My guess is that the catch about the free food is that you have to listen to someone talk about Jesus.
Not a bad trade really..... I admire people of faith even when I don't agree with them.
Pedaling Fool
04-05-2011, 08:13
My guess is that the catch about the free food is that you have to listen to someone talk about Jesus.
Not a bad trade really..... I admire people of faith even when I don't agree with them.
:-? That may be true:-? I've seen it before myself; I kept walking, but heard the stories later from the other hikers
Lone Wolf
04-05-2011, 09:26
What is a jesus burger?
burgers made by church folks that put on a feed at Neel gap
ShelterLeopard
04-05-2011, 09:38
shelterleaperd is wise has cookies and hikes hard. shes the real dealy. the future froliking dino of the future. the best of the best. you not know. ive tasted the cookies.
Thanks Matty!
Monkeywrench
04-05-2011, 10:26
From my trail journal of 5/16/09, when I was camped at Cornelius Creek Shelter:
There is a weekend hiker named Andrew here tonight. After I cleaned up, set up my hammock, and did other chores, we were sitting and chatting when another man walked around the shelter from an unexpected direction. Apparently there is a side trail from the BRP (about 0.3 miles away) to the shelter, and John asked us if we would like some trail magic. Well, of course we would! So John and Andrew both walked back to John's car parked on the BRP, and a few minutes later came back with a two burner Coleman stove, a soft-sided cooler, and a backpack. John then proceeded to fire up the stove, warm up the griddle, and cook us eggs and sausage and pancakes. He also had a full gallon of orange juice. John kept cooking just as long as we could keep eating. Being the only thru-hiker here, I easily ate Andrew under the table. Then we all sat around and chatted about this and that. What a wonderful way to spend the evening! Thanks, John.
I asked John why he was doing this and he told us that his son, Snakebite, hiked the trail a couple of years ago and had told him about all the wonderful things people did for him, so John was trying to pay some of that forward. A great guy.
Andrew is just here for the night, but he said he packed some extra food just so he could give it to any thru-hikers he met, so he gave me a bag of gnocchi along with some fresh cheese and sauce mix. That sounds like a great meal and I will eat that tomolrrow night.
So I had been planning to hitch into the little town of Glasgow on Monday to resupply, and have been worried because all that is listed in the book for Glasgow is a small convenience store and a Dollar General. But now I think I have enough food to wait until Tuesday when I can hitch into Buena Vista, which has a real grocery store.
i think the hiker feeds are fine but they should be furthur up the trail when hikrs are starting to eat minnows out of wlson creek :) i rarely came up on a hiker feed and only found two coolers with anythng in it.. i plan to have a lil gathering feed like thing on salt pond road here pretty soon since hikers are coming thru now.
cool concept tho kinda the vibe i got out of the trail angels and the guy who brought me ice cream to thunder hill shelter just had to be around it.
Keep the Magic coming angels. Don't be swayed by the naysayers. Most hikers truly appreciate all the trail magic we can get. True some hikers have money, but many I know are barely scraping by. Even so any magic really rocks, and an unexpected beer, burger or coke really makes all the difference when the spirit is lagging. Back to back big mile days and mac and cheese dinners really sap the mood some days. Thanks kindly for all you leave out.
PS M&M's rock, and cheap beer goes a lot farther then the expensive stuff and is just as good after long miles.
NAYSAYERS SUCK! Let's not define "trail Magic" for others. You are right Penguin, one man's feed is another man's magic :sun
aaronthebugbuffet
04-05-2011, 11:34
burgers made by church folks that put on a feed at Neel gap
Ok but I prefer cheesus burgers:D
NAYSAYERS SUCK! Let's not define "trail Magic" for others. You are right Penguin, one man's feed is another man's magic :sun
That really is true. When I was hiking the PCT people kept telling me about a hiker feed coming up. I thought the whole time that I would miss it. I showed up at the location on a Thursday fully expecting nothing to be there. But there was steak and chicken and boy was I surprised and happy! I thought that was trail magic for sure. It's the surprise factor.
Now if at every highway there was going to be steak and chicken from Thursday to Sunday, I might try timing some of my arrivals to either avoid or participate depending on my mood. It wouldn't be trail magic anymore so much as just another thing on the trail to deal with one way or another. This would change my hike.
I think that's what people object to. Frequent hiker feeds have the potential to change the hike. Maybe for the better, maybe for the worse, but it does change it. People don't like things to change.
paistes5
04-05-2011, 11:57
All of these discussions on trail magic amaze me. Why the hate for someone wanting to provide magic or have a hiker feed or whatever you want to call it? Why the debate on semantics of a feed versus magic?
Trail angels are wanting to provide a service, don't hate on them. If you don't like it, just pass on through, no harm and I doubt it'd ruin your hike.
Jim Adams
04-05-2011, 13:46
I give out beer and hot dogs because I like to see the smile on hikers faces when they stop. I also like to hear how their hike is going and where they are from. I help them every chance I get. If they need a ride, I try to give them a ride. I also met a hiker at Stover Creek Shelter attempting his first thru hike this year who was 47 years old, had old, totally functional but out dated gear (looked like a 1970's thruhiker) and was hiking in cotton T's and blue jeans. He was depressed and shocked that the trail was as "difficult" to hike as it was (and he was only at Stover Creek!). I sat and talked to him about Georgia being so hard because people do not expect the steepness, the altitude, the cold weather and being out of shape. I explained to him that as he got into better shape, the trail would seem easier. The weather will get warmer. He will make friends and be happier. I explained to him that he could probably hike farther with less food because his pack would weigh less and he could re-stock every 3 or 4 days if needed. I then gave him a pair of my nylon zip off leg pants and a synthetic T shirt. He was so happy for the info and gear that he was choked up.
I saw him 3 days later and he was hiking strong and couldn't wait to get to the Smokies.
That is trail magic ......for him and ME!
The beer and hot dog was just a convienent way to break the ice and meet each other.
Most of the people that I've met providing trail magic out there ARE past thru hikers...when asked why, they just state that they want to still be a part of the trail and they remember how good it felt when they recieved "magic" during their hike.
If you don't want the offering, then don't take it but I have found that only about 1 in 40 hikers refuse what is offered to them.
geek
Im currently on my thru hike and am sending this after a little downtime at Uncle Johnnys and i have always appreciated the "trail magic" i have come across and am always sincerely thankful for it. I will never turn down the gift of a cold coke.
trail angels rock.
Hiker feeds rock!
I'm with you, Blissful. A man from Connecticut did one on the north slope of Mt. Everett last summer, on a hot, dry day. Crackers, sandwiches, drinks from water to soft drinks to beer. Refused offers of cash. Lots of happy hikers that day - I just took water and was happy to have it. Made a great day even better.
....Now if at every highway there was going to be steak and chicken from Thursday to Sunday, I might try timing some of my arrivals to either avoid or participate depending on my mood. It wouldn't be trail magic anymore so much as just another thing on the trail to deal with one way or another. This would change my hike.
I think that's what people object to. Frequent hiker feeds have the potential to change the hike. .....
Frequent hiker feeds have changed hiking, and not for the better. It's made thru hikers into moochers, and objects of charity.
Frequent road crossing certainly damage the sense of wildness many seek on the trail. Frequent road crossings with people setting up grills, and serving hamburgers and hotdogs and cold beer, destroy the sense of wildness that many are seeking.
ShelterLeopard
04-05-2011, 17:18
It seems to me that the problem is the hikers, not the feeds/ trail "magic" (I do agree with Piper, real "magic" is unplanned. I guess I'd call hiker feeds and the like trail "goodness").
Hikers will be mooches anyway, whether there are few or many instances of trail goodness.
It’s easy to see the truth of virtually all sides of this discussion. I have not been to a huge “hiker feed” on some remote stretch of trail, but I have received an apple from the back of a pickup at a parking lot in the gap, a hitch to town or out, candy and a coke from a cooler, etc. Some years when the word gets out that it’s dry out there and the springs aren’t running, it’s nice to be given a bottle of water, or see a sign that hikers can get water from a hose in the back yard at someone’s house. But, somehow it feels more like magic when it’s low key and the person giving is almost surprised themselves, and the giving is nearly anonymous. If I came up on a circus carnival atmosphere with big signs and florescent tents and banners, I’d probably stuff myself on whatever they were offering and have a good time, but the low-key stuff would feel better to me. No matter what, tho, we can easily go wrong when we judge others’ motives, so it’s best to be gracious, participate or not, and be happy that people are having a good time. My kids ran cross-country in school, and the parents and fans would be yelling encouragement to the runners at almost every inch along the way. One of them told me one day that they appreciated the support, but sometimes a runner enjoys the back stretch where it’s them alone along the route and they can stretch out and enjoy the experience and listen to their own thoughts that day. I can see that.
It seems to me that the problem is the hikers, not the feeds/ trail "magic" (I do agree with Piper, real "magic" is unplanned. I guess I'd call hiker feeds and the like trail "goodness").
Hikers will be mooches anyway, whether there are few or many instances of trail goodness.
Certainly the attitude of hikers have changed since I walked north to home in 1993. Most strike me as moochers now. But moochers was not a word I heard among trail people, two decades ago.
We were enjoying the trail, the towns, the friendly people we were meeting. Sadly that has changed. Now the trail has evolved into supporting the trail and the people on the trail at all costs.
harryfred
04-05-2011, 22:09
The OP does seem to have a valid theory I can not do a thru hike do to finances and obligations. If the Lord grants me enough time on this earth I will hike all of the AT a little every year. I like to hike to one of the local shelters and take a six pack or two of something cold (occasionally I take a couple of liters of wine) and a bag of chips or some ham sandwiches. I do this because I like to share with friends and I consider all hikers friends even the ones I don't like. Yes in honesty it allows me to be a part of others thru hike. So what. I enjoy it the hikers I share with enjoy it and it hurts no one. No the At isn't as it was in the '70s,'80s or even the 90s Its not better or worse it is just different and we all know the only constant is change.
Jim Adams
04-05-2011, 22:19
Everything changes with time...even the trail. More encroachment means less of a wilderness feel. More people means it's less of a solitary experience. With increased interest comes more people wanting to help.
In all of the years that I have been helping hikers, I have only met a handful that struck me as being a "mooch". Most are VERY grateful for whatever is offered.
Change is normal and will always happen...it may not be wanted by some but it will happen...that's one of the reasons that everyone's pack doesn't weigh 80# and we're not hiking in jeans.
geek
Freedom Walker, your theory applies to me. Whenever I am home in Harrisburg during hiker season, I try to head up to the trail. Not having much cash, I will typically pick up 5 or 6 gallons of cold water and some flavored drink to give to any hikers that pass by. I do this for the same reason Rocky emptied the spit bucket. Just to see thru-hikers as they pass thru. As a former hiker, it's great to see the egocentric determination and focus of the hiker. On my first hike which I started in PA, my first impression of thru-hikers was that they were all *&%holes. But that's just that tunnel vision required by most to make it that far.
Anyway, I give out water or juice or rides to Hardee's not so much for the benefit of the hiker (though, saving hikers the trip down the spring at Peters Mt. Shelter is a bonus) but for my benefit.
harryfred
04-05-2011, 22:34
There are several long trails that do provide more of that wilderness feel ones you can hike for days on and don't have shelters, aren't well blazed or deserve the nickname the "The Big Ditch". There is and hopefully always will be, only one AT.
The Counselor
04-05-2011, 23:23
No matter what, tho, we can easily go wrong when we judge others’ motives, so it’s best to be gracious, participate or not, and be happy that people are having a good time.
^^^^This.
jersey joe
04-06-2011, 10:37
The concept of trail magic, planned or unplanned, was new to me when I thru hiked. I thought it was fantastic every time I came upon a can of soda. It had less to do with the money I had than the fact that in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of a 25 mile hot hiking day, I could drink a cold can of coke. It was planned, but seemed pretty magical to me all the same. I also appreciated a 5 day weather forcast stapled to the side of the cooler.
Here, in part, is what ATC suggests:
"Unintended consequences of trail magic
As trail magic has changed in size and scope, some unintended consequences have occurred. Some of the “magic” enjoyed by thru-hikers later ends up as unsightly trash to be cleaned up and carried out by volunteer trail maintainers or other hikers. Food left unattended creates the possibility for harming or habituating wildlife. Eventually, a hiker may come to expect trail magic or may encounter it so frequently that it ceases to be meaningful. And, the plastic cooler or party that is a welcome sight for some, may, for others, detract from the sense of remoteness and self-sufficiency that the Appalachian Trail was created to provide.
"The best way to do trail magic
Keep it small. Check with the land-managing agency to find out what regulations apply, or hold your activity away from the Trail. Be sure to remove any trash and leftovers. For more tips, go to our Suggestions for Providing Trail Magic, developed by ATC with input from hikers, “trail angels,” volunteers, Leave No Trace experts, and recreation ecologists.
"Better yet, do the ultimate trail magic: Become an A.T. volunteer.
The magic that is the Appalachian Trail would not exist without the work of volunteers. Essentially, they create the experience of the Trail and are the ultimate “trail angels.” Volunteers give up their weekends and vacations year-round to make sure the A.T. footpath is in good shape and its surrounding wild and pastoral lands are protected from an increasing number of threats. The Trail and its corridor lands require many hours of volunteer work, and more help is always needed. The best way to help preserve and enhance the A.T. experience for current and future hikers is to become a volunteer."
Here is what ATC might also suggest:
"Unintended consequences of hiking the AT:
"As hiking the AT has changed in size and scope, some unintended consequences have occurred. Some of the packaging for food and drink enjoyed by hikers later ends up as unsightly trash to be cleaned up and carried out by volunteer trail maintainers. Food left unattended creates the possibility for harming or habituating wildlife. Eventually, a hiker may come to experience hiking so frequently that it ceases to be meaningful. And fellow hikers which are a welcome sight for some, may, for others, detract from the sense of remoteness and self-sufficiency that the Appalachian Trail was created to provide. Moreover, hikers in large numbers cause such wear and tear on the land that, over time, the trail corridor must be rerouted lest irreparable damage by the elements become unavoidable.
"Finally, there's the chafing on hiker's thighs, unavoidable soreness in feet ankles and knees, aching back, much less contending with flies, mosquitos, snakes, bears, rats and mice. Widow makers on a windy day - plus your hat can blow off and become litter, dagnabbit! Hypothermia which can sneak up and kill you. Hyperthermia on a hot day which can do the same. Sunburn. Lightning. Blizzards in the Whites and Maine and in winter everywhere. Rain. And the views, mostly, are no damn good because it's just a long green tunnel, any way.
"Need we say more? Give us all a rest - stay on the couch and watch nature videos."
Thanks for that last part Driver8 :) I intend to enjoy whatever comes my way and not pass judgement on it. Or should I say whine about it. Let's just go have fun and be blessed for what is.
Blissful
04-06-2011, 13:04
We do our picnic off trail in a parking lot. It is for the people and has nothing to do with the AT itself which is the ATC's interest.
We have enough rules and regs in this nation, thank you.
Blissful
04-06-2011, 13:13
Frequent road crossings with people setting up grills, and serving hamburgers and hotdogs and cold beer, destroy the sense of wildness that many are seeking.
Are you kidding? Then the towns the AT passes through where the restaurant sits there serving hot dogs and hamburgers also destroys the sense of wilderness. For crying out loud the trail goes THROUGH towns. Where's the wilderness in that? The AT crosses roads where people have their homes. where is the wilderness in that?
Go hike the JMT if one wants a wilderness experience with no roads or towns or heaven help us, a hamburger given out of kindness
Jelly-Bean
04-06-2011, 13:15
I read Trailjournals and they talk a lot about food, they think about food, it is what will motivate them to get to the next town. If that is all you are thinking about then what is so wrong with others who want to provide food and hikers that want to partake?
Dances with Mice
04-06-2011, 13:18
Here, in part, is what ATC suggests:
"Unintended consequences of trail magic....
"The best way to do trail magic....
"Better yet, do the ultimate trail magic: Become an A.T. volunteer.
The magic that is the Appalachian Trail would not exist without the work of volunteers. Essentially, they create the experience of the Trail and are the ultimate “trail angels.” Volunteers give up their weekends and vacations year-round to make sure the A.T. footpath is in good shape and its surrounding wild and pastoral lands are protected from an increasing number of threats. The Trail and its corridor lands require many hours of volunteer work, and more help is always needed. The best way to help preserve and enhance the A.T. experience for current and future hikers is to become a volunteer."Or even better yet: Bring hamburgers, hot dogs and cold drinks to AT volunteers.
....especially this Saturday 10-6 at Mulky Gap on the Dunan Ridge Trail in Georgia....
WingedMonkey
04-06-2011, 13:48
Or even better yet: Bring hamburgers, hot dogs and cold drinks to AT volunteers.
....especially this Saturday 10-6 at Mulky Gap on the Dunan Ridge Trail in Georgia....
It would make more sense to return magic to trail volunteers than to set up feeding stations for section hikers.
Are you kidding? Then the towns the AT passes through where the restaurant sits there serving hot dogs and hamburgers also destroys the sense of wilderness. For crying out loud the trail goes THROUGH towns. Where's the wilderness in that? The AT crosses roads where people have their homes. where is the wilderness in that?....
Given the location of the Appalachian Trail, towns, roads and homes are a necessary part of the trail mix. But for those that prefer towns and "restaurant(s) .... serving hot dogs and hamburgers" more than walking through woods and over the mountains, let me suggest a road walk between Georgia and Maine.
Whatever. All ATC seems to be suggesting -- is that trail magic should impinge as little as possible on wild sections of the trail corridor. Are you suggesting that if some parts of the trail destroys the sense of wildness, that no part should provide a sense of wildness?
The AT was never intended to be a wilderness trail for long distance hikers. It's a parking spot to peak trail that is perfect at getting people into some beautiful woods without breaking up their normal life routine. As a long distance hiker, a large part if the experience meeting the locals, supporting their economies, etc. There's nowhere on the trail where you can't get to a road in a few hours of hiking, and the trail goes through many towns. It's a great experience--and If you're looking for the wilderness go to Alaska.
Lone Wolf
04-06-2011, 15:32
It would make more sense to return magic to trail volunteers than to set up feeding stations for section hikers.
or any hikers for that matter
The AT was never intended to be a wilderness trail for long distance hikers.
It's a footpath for those who seek fellowship with the wilderness. Some of us take that seriously.
It's a great experience--and If you're looking for the wilderness go to Alaska.
Thanks, but if we all went there it would be ruined. I'd rather fight to hold onto what we have in Pennsylvania and improve upon it.
The AT was never intended to be a wilderness trail for long distance hikers. It's a parking spot to peak trail that is perfect at getting people into some beautiful woods without breaking up their normal life routine. As a long distance hiker, a large part if the experience meeting the locals, supporting their economies, etc. There's nowhere on the trail where you can't get to a road in a few hours of hiking, and the trail goes through many towns. It's a great experience--and If you're looking for the wilderness go to Alaska.
This is what the ATC guide to maintainers has to say: "your charge is to care for the trail so that hikers may continue to celebrate the natural beauty of the wild, scenic, wooded, pastoral, and culturally significant lands of the Appalachian Mountains."
Myron Avery, who more than anyone created the Trail in the 1930s, said his goal was a trail "not merely north and south, but upwards to the body, mind and soul of man."
Thanks for that last part Driver8 :) I intend to enjoy whatever comes my way and not pass judgement on it. Or should I say whine about it. Let's just go have fun and be blessed for what is.
Thank you skooch (great handle, btw :)). I like weary a lot and usually am in agreement with him, just not here.
I think there's not enough kindness between people in this world. Anything within reason which is in that vein, and which broadens the community's participation in and appreciation of hiking and the AT, is a fine thing in my book.
....for travel on foot through the wild, scenic, wooded, pastoral, and culturally
significant lands of the Appalachian Mountains. It is a means of sojourning among
these lands, such that visitors may experience them by their own unaided efforts.
In practice, the [Appalachian] Trail is usually a simple footpath, purposeful in
direction and concept, favoring the heights of land, and located for minimum
reliance on construction for protecting the resource. The body of the Trail is
provided by the lands it traverses, and its soul is the living stewardship of the
volunteers and workers of the Appalachian Trail community.
—USDI NATIONAL PARK SERVICE,
Comprehensive Plan for the Appalachian National Scenic Trail, 1981
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805799/k.85B9/Wildlife_FAQ.htm
But true “wilderness,” in the sense of untouched wild country, is rare, even on the A.T....But, even in its wildest places, the A.T. hiker is rarely more than a strenuous day's walk from the nearest highway or community.
"wild, scenic, wooded, pastoral, and culturally significant..."
Right. The AT is about experiencing the human/forest interface. If the AT wanted to provide a wilderness experience, there wouldn't be shelters, huts, routes through cities, a zoo, (trails?) etc. If you try to take the human element out of the AT it'd be a rather dull trail; you'd have to get rid of the tourist towns, farms, housing, etc. along the trail, and you'd have to accept unmanaged fire cycles.
The "footpath for those..." quote wasn't from any large organization or management objective--just a trail club that put the sign there IIRC. You can try to pretend that the human component doesn't exist if that's the experience you want, and that's fine by me. But the AT doesn't have the possibility of being 'wilderness.' That doesn't mean that the AT can't provide a great experience--it does. A view from a ridge where you can see a farm or a town isn't a view ruined--it's just a different view. Let's celebrate the AT for what it is.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805799/k.85B9/Wildlife_FAQ.htm
But true “wilderness,” in the sense of untouched wild country, is rare, even on the A.T....But, even in its wildest places, the A.T. hiker is rarely more than a strenuous day's walk from the nearest highway or community.
"wild, scenic, wooded, pastoral, and culturally significant..."
Right. The AT is about experiencing the human/forest interface. If the AT wanted to provide a wilderness experience, there wouldn't be shelters, huts, routes through cities, a zoo, (trails?) etc. If you try to take the human element out of the AT it'd be a rather dull trail; you'd have to get rid of the tourist towns, farms, housing, etc. along the trail, and you'd have to accept unmanaged fire cycles.
The "footpath for those..." quote wasn't from any large organization or management objective--just a trail club that put the sign there IIRC. You can try to pretend that the human component doesn't exist if that's the experience you want, and that's fine by me. But the AT doesn't have the possibility of being 'wilderness.' That doesn't mean that the AT can't provide a great experience--it does. A view from a ridge where you can see a farm or a town isn't a view ruined--it's just a different view. Let's celebrate the AT for what it is.
The purpose of this organization shall be first to promote, construct, and maintain a
connected trail, with related trails, to be called The Appalachian Trail, and to
preserve and restore the natural environment of the Trail and its adjacent lands; and
to provide an educational opportunity to enjoy the Appalachian Trail, related trails
and adjacent lands. This Trail shall run, as far as practicable, over the summits of the
mountains and through the wild lands of the Atlantic Seaboard and adjoining states
from Maine to Georgia, so as to render accessible for hiking, backpacking, and other
forms of primitive travel and living, the said mountains and wild lands, and shall be a
means for conserving and developing, within this region, the primeval environment
as a natural resource.
—APPALACHIAN TRAIL CONFERENCE CONSTITUTION, 1925
1925
from a conference that led to (but was not identical with) the creation of the AT. Remember that there were a few different proposed plans for the trail. Other plans included constructing and connecting villages where urban residents could go to recharge (something like having large huts along the entire trail), etc.
Also, the context of 1925 is very different than the context today. At this time, IIRC, 'preserving nature' included actions like exterminating predators, blasting paths through caves with dynamite, suppressing fires until forests are dangerously and drastically altered, etc.
The lands around the AT were in really rough shape--a lot of them had been irresponsibly logged and then simply abandoned by owners in recent past. Also "developing...the primeval environment as a natural resource." "Developing" and "resource" both imply USE by humans.
1925
from a conference that led to (but was not identical with) the creation of the AT. Remember that there were a few different proposed plans for the trail. Other plans included constructing and connecting villages where urban residents could go to recharge (something like having large huts along the entire trail), etc.
Also, the context of 1925 is very different than the context today. At this time, IIRC, 'preserving nature' included actions like exterminating predators, blasting paths through caves with dynamite, suppressing fires until forests are dangerously and drastically altered, etc.
The lands around the AT were in really rough shape--a lot of them had been irresponsibly logged and then simply abandoned by owners in recent past. Also "developing...the primeval environment as a natural resource." "Developing" and "resource" both imply USE by humans.
I'm not sure what you think all this means. Certainly, in 1925 there were many plans floating around. I just was quoting the group that resulted, with the help of many, in the creation of the trail, and which remains after nearly a century a major player in the trail.
I hope we can all agree that MacKaye's dream of wild preserves punctuated
by villages of vacationers, never happened, and that as he thought about it, should not have happened.
This is an important discussion. Thereby we should try to keep it as accurate as possible.