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SerenitySeeker
04-10-2011, 07:11
While looking up the candle in post today it led me to a survivalist u tube video, and then another, and while clicking on a link to one to explain why they hoard nickels, a link about 2012. How many of we here, many of whom are minimalist, are also survivalist, believe in being prepared for food shortages, natural disasters or worse? After seeing some of the things I did today I am considering being at least minimally prepared knowing that in the event of world food shortages or major energy failure or flood/natural disaster, my own country might not get food and water available to me in a timely organized manner.

tat44too
04-10-2011, 07:20
I never really paid much attention to this, until recently, but now I kinda do. I guess I'm a "minimal minimalist". It's something I think everyone thinks about. To what extent? I'm not sure.

mweinstone
04-10-2011, 07:38
think self reliance. my "water in a box" project could fund us all out of here to a safe place hiking the trail forever. all i need is a capitol invester.my " water in a box " gives total unlimited freedom from all sources other than air. by simply connecting the three divices in the box, one instantly begins produceing water anywhere on earth as long as reletive humidity is above 6%.


tabel top electric water condenser

foot pump battery storage unit

flexable solar pannel

15 minutes of foot pumping on a 1400$ unit produces 12 hours of power witch runs the 1200$ condenser at a rate of 3 pints every 45 minutes. the solar pad is 900$

i belive if all three companys who make the three divices were contracted , a lower rate could be gotten than folks buying seperate divices. this isnt really an invention as much as a conveinyence. i sell the idea, the information sheet and instructions, and i picked the three most suitable machines from the three best companys after much hikerlike reasearch.i belive in my " water in a box" idea.it makes me sad to write about it while broke and desperate for a damm dentist. we could all be rich. oh if anyone would listen to me!
i love you all. even earless .

Harrison Bergeron
04-10-2011, 08:19
It's a book about how a small town in North Carolina (near the AT, in fact, though it's not mentioned) survives an EMP attack on the United States.

Not many people realize that it doesn't take a Soviet Union and 10,000 nukes to destroy America. It only takes a lunatic regime, a boat, a missle, and one nuke -- like Iran or N. Korea.

Our entire society has become totally dependent on microchip technology, which is extremely vulnerable to EMP -- Electro-Magnetic Pulse. You create EMP by exploding a nuclear weapon in the stratospere. There is no structural damage on the surface, and no-one dies immediately. But it knocks out every computerized device for about 1,000 miles in every direction. Three well-placed nukes would cover the entire country, but one is probably all it would take to deal a death blow.

No vehicles made after 1975 would be operable. Food production would cease and there would be no way to transport it even if it was available. The economy would vanish in an instant -- it's all stored on computers wih no hardcopy backup. 300,000,000 people would suddenly have to figure out how to survive with no power or water on whatever food they have in their kitchen at that moment.

Scary stuff. Especially when you realize that preparing for it is probably impossible for most of us -- unless you happen to live on a farm far enough away from a million starving people to be able to hang onto it.

Survivalists are optimists. Personally, I just try not to think about it too much.

We lived thirty years with 10,000 nukes pointed at us and survived it.

Maybe we'll get lucky again.

couscous
04-10-2011, 08:28
Anyone who camps or backpacks is better prepared for natural disasters. During the ice storm of 2004, we were without power for eight days over Christmas (Dec. 22-30) while temps outside dropped to below -15°F. Having camping/backpacking gear for cooking, getting water, having light, etc. made the experience much easier.

If you know a storm is approaching, it's not very expensive to get some candles, matches/lighter, fill pitchers with water for drinking, fill a bathtub with water for washing and flushing toilets, have a week's worth of canned food, have extra batteries for flashlights, fill any vehicles with fuel, and charge any cell phones and laptops.

fiddlehead
04-10-2011, 08:31
Interesting reading this thread. Especially from where I am presently sitting: Northeast Thailand, the part called "Issan" and what has always been the poorest of the poor of Thailand.
Not any more.
Now that the price of food is up around the world, this place is bustling.
A brand new supermarket was packed today with high priced goods.
The roads are full of 1 piston tractor engines pulling wagons full of sugar cane, rice, rubber, bananas and pineapples.
Wasn't ever really worried about 2012 and the Mayan calender but sort of glad we have a house up here and visit from time to time.
Not a bad place to be.
Water buffalo are not as prevalent as they once were but I'm sure they'll come out of the woodwork if and when the oil flow stops.
Almost everyone collects rainwater and has from 2-10 2,000 litre concrete tanks to hold it in (ours is hooked to a pump to pressurize the house)
Again, not a bad place to be (enjoying the $3.00 greens fee at the golf course too)

Furlough
04-10-2011, 09:08
It's a book about how a small town in North Carolina (near the AT, in fact, though it's not mentioned) survives an EMP attack on the United States.

Not many people realize that it doesn't take a Soviet Union and 10,000 nukes to destroy America. It only takes a lunatic regime, a boat, a missle, and one nuke -- like Iran or N. Korea.

Our entire society has become totally dependent on microchip technology, which is extremely vulnerable to EMP -- Electro-Magnetic Pulse. You create EMP by exploding a nuclear weapon in the stratospere. There is no structural damage on the surface, and no-one dies immediately. But it knocks out every computerized device for about 1,000 miles in every direction. Three well-placed nukes would cover the entire country, but one is probably all it would take to deal a death blow.

No vehicles made after 1975 would be operable. Food production would cease and there would be no way to transport it even if it was available. The economy would vanish in an instant -- it's all stored on computers wih no hardcopy backup. 300,000,000 people would suddenly have to figure out how to survive with no power or water on whatever food they have in their kitchen at that moment.

Scary stuff. Especially when you realize that preparing for it is probably impossible for most of us -- unless you happen to live on a farm far enough away from a million starving people to be able to hang onto it.

Survivalists are optimists. Personally, I just try not to think about it too much.

We lived thirty years with 10,000 nukes pointed at us and survived it.

Maybe we'll get lucky again.

If this ever happens I am moving to Pennsylvania and becoming Amish.

JAK
04-10-2011, 09:15
...and then there was the story about the survivalist that left the UK and moved to the Falkland Islands just before that war broke out. Well, they survived. I think the best form of survivalism is day to day living that does not take too much for granted. Rather than storing away 12 months of food for 20 years or more, it might make more sense to have 12 months of food on hand but constantly cycle through it, buying sing items in bulk each week when they are in season or on sale. Also, having hiking skills, and using them regularly and year round in good clean and natural living, goes a long way towards preparedness. Also doing without technology rather than using technology for preparedness. Doing without electricity at home for a week once each season. We might find it more fulfilling. Why wait? Why should only hikers and refugees have all the fun. ;-)

Pedaling Fool
04-10-2011, 09:15
It's a book about how a small town in North Carolina (near the AT, in fact, though it's not mentioned) survives an EMP attack on the United States.
I wonder how an alien spaceship would handle an EMP attack. I also often wonder if the aliens will just sit back and watch as a supervolcano erupts or if they will intervene...maybe they have already prevented it. Or maybe they just take the attitude of "let nature take its course". Sort of what we do when it happens while we're doing our observations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JVkaMqD5mI&feature=fvsr

4shot
04-10-2011, 09:31
I do not think I would want to exist or "survive" in the post apocalyptic world. when 100% of one's energy and focus is spent on merely surviving, i will take what's behind door number 2. Unless it's a scenario involving zombies, then I think hunting zombies would be a pretty cool past-time when not tending one's garden or shearing the sheep.

JAK
04-10-2011, 09:37
... or maybe we are already in a post-apocalyptic world, but don't realize it because we are the zombies and sheep. ;-)

double d
04-10-2011, 10:39
Survivialism in my opinion, is always short term. Sure you can store food, water and shelter, but for how long? Certainly we should all be prepared for the short term (say less then three months worth of the above mentioned supplies), but....at some point we begin to run out. I always think of the film The Road when I read about end of the world debates. Certainly I think hikers/backpackers could survive a lot longer then the average over-weight suburban citizens, but again, for how long? Endless questions, but interesting ones at that.

sbhikes
04-10-2011, 10:59
We will survive on compassion and helping one another so I try to participate in my community. I also live somewhere with a year-round growing season. I would be happy if something wiped out all the microchips. It would clear the slate, level the playing field. There are some insufferable rich people I wouldn't mind seeing humbled a bit.

WingedMonkey
04-10-2011, 11:05
I'm a backpacker living in a family full of hunters in the middle of hurricane alley. Our pantries are always stocked with non perishables, water is always jugged and generators are checked twice a year.
And I have an old habit I won't give up of keeping a variety of vegetable seeds rotated in the freezer, including some non hybrids in case nature needs to take over.
I have a hand pump device that will draw from water from my well in place of the electric pump, it ain't easy but it works.
But we are always that way if it's 2012 or if it's the millennium or Hurricane BillyBob.
Sometimes I think I'm ready for an EMS storm, but I need to get chickens and rabbits again first.

DapperD
04-10-2011, 11:32
It's a book about how a small town in North Carolina (near the AT, in fact, though it's not mentioned) survives an EMP attack on the United States.

Not many people realize that it doesn't take a Soviet Union and 10,000 nukes to destroy America. It only takes a lunatic regime, a boat, a missle, and one nuke -- like Iran or N. Korea.

Our entire society has become totally dependent on microchip technology, which is extremely vulnerable to EMP -- Electro-Magnetic Pulse. You create EMP by exploding a nuclear weapon in the stratospere. There is no structural damage on the surface, and no-one dies immediately. But it knocks out every computerized device for about 1,000 miles in every direction. Three well-placed nukes would cover the entire country, but one is probably all it would take to deal a death blow.

No vehicles made after 1975 would be operable. Food production would cease and there would be no way to transport it even if it was available. The economy would vanish in an instant -- it's all stored on computers wih no hardcopy backup. 300,000,000 people would suddenly have to figure out how to survive with no power or water on whatever food they have in their kitchen at that moment.

Scary stuff. Especially when you realize that preparing for it is probably impossible for most of us -- unless you happen to live on a farm far enough away from a million starving people to be able to hang onto it.

Survivalists are optimists. Personally, I just try not to think about it too much.

We lived thirty years with 10,000 nukes pointed at us and survived it.

Maybe we'll get lucky again.It doesn't only take a synthetic manmade EMP attack/accident to cause us massive damage but one just as devastating and possibly even more likely will be caused naturally by our own source of life, light and warmth: our sun itself:http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=190721 And it's not a question of if it will occur (because it already has) but when, and to what degree of severity:-?

Fiddleback
04-10-2011, 12:03
I'm no survialist, not a minimalist, don't believe in Inca, Aztec, or Tea Party Doomsdays (:rolleyes:), the collapse of the U.S., or the end of civilization. But I do believe in being prepared...for extended power outages (I hold a low opinion of the Missoula Electric Cooperative), emergency evacuations (the forest fires have got close once or twice), blocked roads (ice jams closed the highway two decades ago, there was water over my county road last week), record-breaking storms, etc. So I always have food, water, and 'supplies' stocked...both for me and My Lady, the dog, cat birds, horses and llamas. I even have food and containers ready to cover our local Meals On Wheels clients if I can get to 'em. I generally have gasoline and diesel on the premises and rarely let any of the vehicle fuel tanks drop below a hundred-mile range.

My father was of the ilk that thought the mobs would run wild some day. Ensconced in his upperclass incorporated town surrounded by San Antonio, he stockpiled cases and cases of freeze dried food. He looked crest fallen when I asked him where he was gonna get the water when the mobs shut off the power (:D) but he never did stockpile any. I inherited those cases of freeze dried...that's how I learned that somewhere between 15 and 30 years old you can count on the food tasting 'off'.:-?

FB

brian2o0o
04-10-2011, 12:39
Its all abunch of hype, just another Y2K scare...

DapperD
04-10-2011, 12:40
While looking up the candle in post today it led me to a survivalist u tube video, and then another, and while clicking on a link to one to explain why they hoard nickels, a link about 2012. How many of we here, many of whom are minimalist, are also survivalist, believe in being prepared for food shortages, natural disasters or worse? After seeing some of the things I did today I am considering being at least minimally prepared knowing that in the event of world food shortages or major energy failure or flood/natural disaster, my own country might not get food and water available to me in a timely organized manner.I believe some extra supplies on hand is always a good thing. I believe a minimum of 6 months worth of food and supplies is suggested to have, preferably 1 years worth. This can be tough to do/afford. I do believe other's concern's over the worlds direction are valid as bunkers are in hot demand right now:http://www.just2012.com/increased-sale-of-doomsday-bunkers-and-approaching-may-21/

Pioneer Spirit
04-10-2011, 13:56
We are just one disaster away from major catastrophe. One errant nuke or an undetected comet could send things out of wack very fast.

Most people are not prepared for any minor event let alone for the big one. My generator failed when I needed it the most, sub-zero temperatures without power or heat for 3 days.

Always keep canned food available, guns help and never tell your neighbors what you have.

You can't gurantee when a catastrope will will strike but you can bet it will be during the worst possible time.

We live in a time when half the population no longer pays taxes so it's a matter of time before some type of meltdown occurs.

DapperD
04-10-2011, 19:36
We are just one disaster away from major catastrophe.

Most people are not prepared for any minor event let alone for the big one.

Always keep canned food available, guns help and never tell your neighbors what you have.

We live in a time when half the population no longer pays taxes so it's a matter of time before some type of meltdown occurs.From what I understand, and have read, another thing of interest is the fact that it is recommended that those living in major urban areas need to be even more vigilant in regards to their safety, and if at all possible need to leave immediately if something huge was to occur. The reason being this is where mass kaos will break out in the event of either a man made or natural catastrophe. There will be widespread looting occuring, rioting, etc...and urban areas will be amongst the hardest hit and the most dangerous to be in/near.

Pedaling Fool
04-11-2011, 09:16
I'm no survialist, not a minimalist, don't believe in Inca, Aztec, or Tea Party Doomsdays (:rolleyes:), the collapse of the U.S., or the end of civilization.
There is a little too much chatter about this and many times our "final hour" has been wrongly prognosticated; this is the classic "the sky is falling" syndrome. However, one day the fear mongers will get it right. The only question is, will my end days be a "normal" occurrence or a result of the "big one"? And of course which one will it be, i.e., supervolcano, asteroid, gamma-ray burst...All these and many more will happen again and again, but unfortunately we only get to observe one of them;)

4shot
04-11-2011, 09:26
..All these and many more will happen again and again, but unfortunately we only get to observe one of them;)

then that you are not a believer in reincarnation?;)

JAK
04-11-2011, 10:06
then that you are not a believer in reincarnation?;)I believe in recycling. Close enough?

4shot
04-11-2011, 11:57
I believe in recycling. Close enough?


reincarnation as zombies are to people. C'mon man.:)

JAK
04-11-2011, 12:20
lol. Never thought of it that way. I do like the idea of reincarnation of souls, but only to a point. I also like the idea of every life being unique and original. I like the idea that when I die the nutrients from my body will give life to other living things, and the absence of my body will make room for other living things. I do think some people should be given a second chance though, especially those that die young. Myself, I've had a pretty fair run. They rest is gravy.

Trailbender
04-11-2011, 13:16
I believe some extra supplies on hand is always a good thing. I believe a minimum of 6 months worth of food and supplies is suggested to have, preferably 1 years worth. This can be tough to do/afford. I do believe other's concern's over the worlds direction are valid as bunkers are in hot demand right now:http://www.just2012.com/increased-sale-of-doomsday-bunkers-and-approaching-may-21/

Some guns and training are also a requirement, otherwise you are just stocking those supplies for someone else.

trailangelbronco
04-11-2011, 14:19
The price of food and goods are about to skyrocket. Record inflation is about to hit as the value of the dollar is crashing.
Firms that hold alot of Govt bonds are rapidy starting to sell them, and then will buy them back at the discounted rate. This will crush our economy, I know, as I am about to sell mine as well.
Smart to stock up on food, but also smart to get a few chickens, grow a modest garden. Squash and Zucchini grow the easiest, and will keep you alive. Follow that up with tomatos and cucumbers. An apple tree in the back yard is also smart.
A simple rifle or shotgun is all that is needed, and then get trained on how to use it safely, then lock it away along with a couple hundred rounds.
If an emergency hits that is big enough to shut down the supply of food and goods to the stores, and then the stores close, then there will be plenty of great guns laying around on the ground a few weeks later. As in, starving people will start killing to feed theri families. Govt can't feed all of us, only the Mormons are prepared to do that.
Alot of these thoughts are hysteria, but the East coast would be the worst place to be under this kind of emergency.

Rockhound
04-11-2011, 14:26
I'll just make sure to be hiking near Bluemont VA when the S%$T hits the fan and talk my way into Mount Weather. Google it.

JAK
04-11-2011, 14:51
General "Buck" Turgidson: Doctor, you mentioned the ratio of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn't that necessitate the abandonment of the so-called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned?

Dr. Strangelove: Regrettably, yes. But it is, you know, a sacrifice required for the future of the human race. I hasten to add that since each man will be required to do prodigious... service along these lines, the women will have to be selected for their sexual characteristics which will have to be of a highly stimulating nature.

Ambassador de Sadesky: I must confess, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor.

Trailbender
04-11-2011, 15:08
A simple rifle or shotgun is all that is needed, and then get trained on how to use it safely, then lock it away along with a couple hundred rounds.


Disagree with this, somewhat. You need to continually stay in practice with the weaponry, practice combat reloads, jam clearing, transitioning to pistol, ect. You also need to regularly shoot to stay sharp in that area. I would recommend a rifle over a shotgun, they have much longer range and the ammo is lighter. Having a gun is not enough, you have to be skilled in its use. I would also recommend a handgun as well, they are light, portable, and can always be on you. Also useful if your main weapon goes down in a fight for one reason or another.

WingedMonkey
04-11-2011, 15:12
Disagree with this, somewhat. You need to continually stay in practice with the weaponry, practice combat reloads, jam clearing, transitioning to pistol, ect. You also need to regularly shoot to stay sharp in that area. I would recommend a rifle over a shotgun, they have much longer range and the ammo is lighter. Having a gun is not enough, you have to be skilled in its use. I would also recommend a handgun as well, they are light, portable, and can always be on you. Also useful if your main weapon goes down in a fight for one reason or another.

You're said you are dumping your car, giving up school and home and going to live on the AT. You're gonna have one damn heavy pack.

:sun

Sickmont
04-11-2011, 15:21
Dont you people ever learn? The movies have provided the way to survive everytime. Just gotta grow some stones and become the "anti-hero" and everything will fall into place. Just think "The Roadwarrior" or "The Postman". You may have to fight a bit to prove you're the baddest cat in the land, but in the end you'll win everytime.

berkshirebirder
04-11-2011, 15:24
I'm with 4shot on this. There's a great difference between living and surviving. I wouldn't want to survive in a world that pits relatives and neighbors against each other.

Trailbender
04-11-2011, 15:35
You're said you are dumping your car, giving up school and home and going to live on the AT. You're gonna have one damn heavy pack.

:sun

Obviously, I am not carrying any weaponry. I was speaking in his reply that buying a gun is enough. I have had extensive weapons training, as well as a tour in Iraq. Buying a gun and saving it for an emergency is not enough. You will not magically come through under stress. If the hostile is not within 5 yards, you will probably miss, among numerous other things.


I'm with 4shot on this. There's a great difference between living and surviving. I wouldn't want to survive in a world that pits relatives and neighbors against each other.

If a massive economic collapse happens, that is the way it will be. Hell, I already hate my relatives, and nothing happened yet. I had a Ukrainian freind of mine share from his grandparents about the massive famine they had in 1933. He said kids weren't allowed to play outside because they would get kidnapped and eaten, people were eating plaster and boiling shoes to eat the leather.

trailangelbronco
04-11-2011, 15:54
You forgot to paste the rest of my message, as in intending to profess that only one weapon is needed, because when SHTF, there will be many nice AR's laying around on the ground.

I own over 20 guns, and each has it's purpose. I use a Marlin 308 MX as my deer/Elk rifle, with iron sights. I shoot alot. I also have a couple bolt action elk rifles that have scopes, mainly for my friends that don't shoot very often.

I also have various black rifles of American and Soviet Block descent. They are fun to play with and could come in handy if defense or bug out situations arise.

I have a few pistols, and they are fun to shoot. That is about it. In a live fire defensive/offensive situation, a pistol is only for close quarters backup. If there is more than one other person after me and all I have left is a pistol, then I am probably dying that that day and the pistol will help me take a few with me. If I am pinned down and the other guy has a rifle in an open field, I will probably die of thirst.

A pistol is almost useless, and is only intended for closequarters back up, when your scout rifle runs out of ammo.

If I only had time to grab one gun and haul ass, it would be my Mossberg 500. It holds 8 rounds plus one. I can use it with Buck Shot to drop Deer, man, Elk, whatever. I can load it with bird shot to stay alive. I can load it with Slugs and drop a grizzly, Moose, Blackbear, with one shot. Or, drop a man from 50 yards.

The best defense, of course, is to stay undetected and self sufficient. If SHTF, I will be happy that I live in Idaho. Lots of mountains and open land here. Not alot of people. I have a cabin in the Sawtooths with neighbors a mile down the road each way who also can hunt, shoot, grow food and we would look out for each other.

In the end, good neighbors, open land and a sound mind is what would not only get us through. We already work 40 hours per week to survive, then we would be working 20-30 hours a week to eat and stay sheltered. To some it would be a hassle.
Country boy can survive...

Disagree with this, somewhat. You need to continually stay in practice with the weaponry, practice combat reloads, jam clearing, transitioning to pistol, ect. You also need to regularly shoot to stay sharp in that area. I would recommend a rifle over a shotgun, they have much longer range and the ammo is lighter. Having a gun is not enough, you have to be skilled in its use. I would also recommend a handgun as well, they are light, portable, and can always be on you. Also useful if your main weapon goes down in a fight for one reason or another.

Rockhound
04-11-2011, 16:14
Wow. Lotsa people living in fear here. What a shame.

Trailbender
04-11-2011, 16:15
You forgot to paste the rest of my message, as in intending to profess that only one weapon is needed, because when SHTF, there will be many nice AR's laying around on the ground.

I was specifically referring to that one part. With your longer post here, I understand now that you have experience. But telling someone to get a rifle or shotgun and lock it up for a bad situation is not going to work. With a lack of training, they will most likely fail.

I own over 20 guns, and each has it's purpose. I use a Marlin 308 MX as my deer/Elk rifle, with iron sights. I shoot alot. I also have a couple bolt action elk rifles that have scopes, mainly for my friends that don't shoot very often.

I do agree there is not one perfect gun for all situations. They all have their benefits and drawbacks. A bolt action sucks for close range, and an AK isn't a sniper rifle. If I had one rifle to "do it all" and that was all I had, I would have to go with a semi auto .308 like a FAL or M14 clone.

I also have various black rifles of American and Soviet Block descent. They are fun to play with and could come in handy if defense or bug out situations arise.

Definitely. An AK is a 300 yard rifle if you have the skills. It's inaccuracy is generally a myth. If a rifle can do "minute of torso" at 300, I am fine with that.

I have a few pistols, and they are fun to shoot. That is about it. In a live fire defensive/offensive situation, a pistol is only for close quarters backup. If there is more than one other person after me and all I have left is a pistol, then I am probably dying that that day and the pistol will help me take a few with me. If I am pinned down and the other guy has a rifle in an open field, I will probably die of thirst.

A pistol is almost useless, and is only intended for closequarters back up, when your scout rifle runs out of ammo.

Far from useless, actually. I agree that they are weaker than a rifle, but they are convenient to carry, and always available. In a moderate SHTF, you might not be able to walk down the street with a slung rifle, but a handgun can be concealed. Handguns and rifles are two separate weapon systems, and neither one can replace the other. A pistol is also more handy than a rifle for clearing a house.

If I only had time to grab one gun and haul ass, it would be my Mossberg 500. It holds 8 rounds plus one. I can use it with Buck Shot to drop Deer, man, Elk, whatever. I can load it with bird shot to stay alive. I can load it with Slugs and drop a grizzly, Moose, Blackbear, with one shot. Or, drop a man from 50 yards.

I like shotguns, but their drawbacks are too huge to ignore. Heavy ammo, and limited range. A regular "infantry" rifle has a generally agreed range of 300 yards, a shotgun doesn't. It goes back to the handgun issue, as in a lack of range vs a rifle.

The best defense, of course, is to stay undetected and self sufficient. If SHTF, I will be happy that I live in Idaho. Lots of mountains and open land here. Not alot of people. I have a cabin in the Sawtooths with neighbors a mile down the road each way who also can hunt, shoot, grow food and we would look out for each other.

Agreed. I would get together with a group of like minded people, strength in numbers.

In the end, good neighbors, open land and a sound mind is what would not only get us through. We already work 40 hours per week to survive, then we would be working 20-30 hours a week to eat and stay sheltered. To some it would be a hassle.
Country boy can survive...

Agree completely. A large group working together is more likely to survive.

Replies in bold.

Trailbender
04-11-2011, 16:19
Wow. Lotsa people living in fear here. What a shame.

Not fear, honesty and practicality. I have met some pretty bad people, and I know that a lot of people out there aren't kind and humanitarian like people I meet on the AT. People that will stab or shoot you for 20 bucks so they can get high.

I go about my life more peacefully and with less fear because I know I can take care of myself if something happens. I don't have to worry about someone robbing me, or anything else.

Rockhound
04-11-2011, 16:25
Not fear, honesty and practicality. I have met some pretty bad people, and I know that a lot of people out there aren't kind and humanitarian like people I meet on the AT. People that will stab or shoot you for 20 bucks so they can get high.

I go about my life more peacefully and with less fear because I know I can take care of myself if something happens. I don't have to worry about someone robbing me, or anything else.
Potato potahto. Stockpiling arsenals because one is afraid someone will steal from them or kill the is living in fear in my book. Rifles are great for hunting. Stockpiling weapons in preparation to kill looters and thieves is sad.

Sickmont
04-11-2011, 16:40
The problem with a rifle is unless you have the ability to make your own ammo in a "post apocalyptic world" situation eventually you're gonna run out of it.

Trailbender
04-11-2011, 16:42
Potato potahto. Stockpiling arsenals because one is afraid someone will steal from them or kill the is living in fear in my book. Rifles are great for hunting. Stockpiling weapons in preparation to kill looters and thieves is sad.

It's not sad, it is being honest about human nature. If you are not prepared to defend yourself in a situation like that, you are going to die, plain and simple.

I don't see how being prepared to defend yourself is living in fear, it is being practical. I don't live in fear because I am not worried about it. I carry a fire extinguisher and a first aid it in my car, not because I expect to use them, they are insurance, just like training and carrying a handgun.

Trailbender
04-11-2011, 16:44
The problem with a rifle is unless you have the ability to make your own ammo in a "post apocalyptic world" situation eventually you're gonna run out of it.

That is why you use "battlefield pick ups". Anyone attacking you is going to be carrying at least one weapon and ammo.

trailangelbronco
04-11-2011, 17:03
The reason I choose a Shotgun as my one to grab, you can't effectively shoot rabbit, birds, etc etc with a rifle or a pistol. And you can't shoot deer and elk or defend yourself effectively with a .22

Where I live, I would be shooting dinner far more often than shooting it out with people, so if I had one to grab, it is my shotgun. It will put food on the table evry day, and I am pretty effective shooting up to 70 yards with a slug. I am not too worried about someone more than 100 yards away, they more than likely have to get closer at one point or the other.

Also, I stock alot of ammo not to survive the zombies, but because ammo prices keep going up. I have over 500 rounds of .223, 500 rounds of .308, and hundreds of rounds of various shotgun loads.

You can get 1000 rounds of russian ammo for just under $250 out here. I have a few tins tucked away, mostly for target practice.

Ender
04-11-2011, 17:04
That is why you use "battlefield pick ups". Anyone attacking you is going to be carrying at least one weapon and ammo.

Unless they're zombies, and then you're just punked. ;)

Trailbender
04-11-2011, 17:12
Unless they're zombies, and then you're just punked. ;)

That's why I also have a machete and a sledgehammer.

Pioneer Spirit
04-11-2011, 17:12
It doesn't take much to create a disaster, but it does depend on the people involved. The city folks in New Orleans were and still are helpless yet when a tornado destroyed a town in the midwest, it was cleaned up in a month with out governement aid.

Most stores get emptied out real quick if folks think a storm is coming.


There are dozens of things pointed at us at any one time. Storms, super vulcanos like Yellowstone, comets, meteors, gamma ray bursts from a star light years away.

There is no doubt that we are headed for financial horrors ahead either by default or design to further global interests.

There is nothing wrong in being prepared.

Trailbender
04-11-2011, 17:53
The reason I choose a Shotgun as my one to grab, you can't effectively shoot rabbit, birds, etc etc with a rifle or a pistol. And you can't shoot deer and elk or defend yourself effectively with a .22

Where I live, I would be shooting dinner far more often than shooting it out with people, so if I had one to grab, it is my shotgun. It will put food on the table evry day, and I am pretty effective shooting up to 70 yards with a slug. I am not too worried about someone more than 100 yards away, they more than likely have to get closer at one point or the other.

Also, I stock alot of ammo not to survive the zombies, but because ammo prices keep going up. I have over 500 rounds of .223, 500 rounds of .308, and hundreds of rounds of various shotgun loads.

You can get 1000 rounds of russian ammo for just under $250 out here. I have a few tins tucked away, mostly for target practice.

Yeah, defense with a .22 rifle is far from the best option, but doable, as long as they are 100 yards or closer. Stopping power arguments aside, you take 2 of those in the head and its game over, combine that with no muzzleflash, nonexistent recoil, and light weight, it beats throwing rocks.

Rockhound
04-11-2011, 17:57
The way I see it is stockpiling weapons and ammo, Building your bunkers and bomb shelters, stringing up that constantino wire, setting up those booby traps, stockpiling years of emergency rations is not insurance or preparedness. It is choosing to imprison oneself. It is the fear mentality at work. I know this is an oposing viewpoint to how many feel here and I will be admonished for it. I simply feel that rather than worry about people stealing from me, I would rather give all my possessions away and if the world ever comes to the point that the Earth is no longer able to provide water and food I would rather die than hang on for a few miserable years living off what I've been able to hoard while I kill all those would be looters trying to steal it from me. That is no life at all.

Trailbender
04-11-2011, 19:08
The way I see it is stockpiling weapons and ammo, Building your bunkers and bomb shelters, stringing up that constantino wire, setting up those booby traps, stockpiling years of emergency rations is not insurance or preparedness. It is choosing to imprison oneself. It is the fear mentality at work. I know this is an oposing viewpoint to how many feel here and I will be admonished for it. I simply feel that rather than worry about people stealing from me, I would rather give all my possessions away and if the world ever comes to the point that the Earth is no longer able to provide water and food I would rather die than hang on for a few miserable years living off what I've been able to hoard while I kill all those would be looters trying to steal it from me. That is no life at all.

I don't have anything stockpiled, and I am not building a bunker or whatever. Survivalism is about skills and improvisation, more than fancy rifles with expensive scopes. Like anything else, it has been infected with the materialism of our society, where you need every possible accessory for every piece of "survival" gear you own. I think homeless people honestly have the best chance in most situations, as things can only be an improvement for them, and they are used to having nothing for so long.

As far as possessions, other than my car and computer and guns, I don't have anything else. Car and computer is being given to a friend, guns are being sold, and anything else is gotten rid of somehow except my backpacking gear. I am going to live on the AT, for how long, I have no idea. Absolute worse case, total collapse or whatever, I can get with a group of people, as I have a ton of skills. If not, I will try to aquire a weapon, and use that weapon to get a better one. People forget that you are the weapon, your gun is only a tool. Even if all I had was a .380, trust me, I would find a way to be deadly with it, not complain that it was too weak.

I don't have anything against you, it is just that I feel that self defense is a basic human right, that is why I have issues with gun control. If someone brings you violence, the only right and proper thing to do is defend yourself.

4shot
04-11-2011, 19:44
brothers and sisters, this thread has opened up my mind in a new way. After some contemplation on this issue, I went on ebay and ordered a set of plans for a time trave machine from a retired MIT professor who now lives in Phuket. With said machine, I will be enjoying $.33/gallon gasoline, $.25 cheeseburgers and shotgun shells and travelling forward in time with some of my buddies for a leisurely day of zombie shooting. Today will sort of be my home base.

Don't bother going on ebay, I got the last set of plans. however, if you PM me and send $25, I'll be glad to photocopy a set for you. The plans for the ultralight version run $50 by the way.

Pedaling Fool
04-11-2011, 20:23
This guy wants to build a time machine http://hubpages.com/hub/Will-We-See-Time-Travel-in-Our-Lifetime

DapperD
04-11-2011, 23:32
The way I see it is stockpiling weapons and ammo, Building your bunkers and bomb shelters, stringing up that constantino wire, setting up those booby traps, stockpiling years of emergency rations is not insurance or preparedness. It is choosing to imprison oneself. It is the fear mentality at work. I know this is an oposing viewpoint to how many feel here and I will be admonished for it. I simply feel that rather than worry about people stealing from me, I would rather give all my possessions away and if the world ever comes to the point that the Earth is no longer able to provide water and food I would rather die than hang on for a few miserable years living off what I've been able to hoard while I kill all those would be looters trying to steal it from me. That is no life at all.I can understand your point completely. But also one needs to understand that there is no way of knowing what the life altering catastrophe may be before it happens, or to what actual degree of damage will occur. I believe I read that everything being completely wiped out may be only one scenario, and maybe even not the most likely one:http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ixRMNOAoays/TEBzNGC6SyI/AAAAAAAAJyg/F2oJBNaIY2w/s1600/day+after.jpg
There is also the possibility that the earth may not be completely wiped out, and you will discover reasons to want to continue living. As other's have said, finding people who share the same desire to continue on and working together to help and protect one another in order to do so would be the wisest decision. I know I read that actually having a plan intact before a catastrophe is the best defense for being able to deal with it and survive it afterward. Families already prepared to unite as one, and to work together as a team to share their stored food, supplies, etc...to defend one another as a whole unit if need be, and to help one another to continue on is more than likely the smartest thing to do. The more people working together, the stronger, safer, and better chances they all will have to not only survive a major catastophic event, but to endure it:-?

earlyriser26
04-12-2011, 05:27
I am saving string. I have a really big ball of string for when the big one hits. Got that covered.

Wolf - 23000
04-12-2011, 12:49
Getting back on topic, I carry what most hikers call an extremely light backpack. At the same time even with an extremely light pack I was still able to survive many pretty bad storms sometimes involving hail, several feet of snow, multiply trees falling down, etc. Going off trail there no knowing what you many encounter. Some stretches may look all together different from what is put on a map to what is really out there. It can be tough hiking long stretches with no water in sight.


In survival the gear is not the important part of hiking. It is your knowledge on how you use it that makes the different. Your determination to keep going when things get bad. That is what makes the different between someone who can walk out of a bad situation and someone who curries up and freeze to death. That is where survival comes in. The heart and soul of the hiker.


Wolf

Rockhound
04-12-2011, 13:32
Imagine surviving the apocalypse and then, being a kind giving person, offering help to groups of other survivors only to get shot at the front door due to fear and paranoia. violence breeds violence, hate breeds hate, fear breeds fear. Luckily love also breeds love and kindness breeds kindness. I still have enough faith in mankind that I do not feel I have to protect myself from it.

DapperD
04-12-2011, 13:43
Imagine surviving the apocalypse and then, being a kind giving person, offering help to groups of other survivors only to get shot at the front door due to fear and paranoia.Sort of like the "We don't want your old jack anyway!" paranoia complex:D

DapperD
04-12-2011, 13:56
Far from useless, actually. I agree that they are weaker than a rifle, but they are convenient to carry, and always available. In a moderate SHTF, you might not be able to walk down the street with a slung rifle, but a handgun can be concealed. Handguns and rifles are two separate weapon systems, and neither one can replace the other. A pistol is also more handy than a rifle for clearing a house.
Here is an example of a major SHTF:D:http://content9.flixster.com/photo/13/85/49/13854963_gal.jpg

Trailbender
04-12-2011, 18:55
Imagine surviving the apocalypse and then, being a kind giving person, offering help to groups of other survivors only to get shot at the front door due to fear and paranoia. violence breeds violence, hate breeds hate, fear breeds fear. Luckily love also breeds love and kindness breeds kindness. I still have enough faith in mankind that I do not feel I have to protect myself from it.

I treat people kindly until they give a reason for me not to. It is right morally to defend yourself, I will help someone out the best I can, but if someone attacks me, it is their fault, and they will get what is coming. Many people think all violence is wrong, but it is not. Initiation of violence is always wrong, defending yourself from violence started by someone else will always be morally correct.

I do not live in fear, paranoia, or anything else. I enjoy life immensely, and try to live each day to the fullest. I do not go around worried about being attacked. If I see someone in need, I will offer them assistance if I can.