Portions of the AT not White Blazed?

[saimyoji]

I've been reading George Steffano's hike journal, here's an excerpt:

Maine Junction is the point where the Appalachian Trail and the Long Trail diverge. The Long Trail is older than the AT, and takes precedence over the younger trail at their junction. Like that of the AT, the Long Trail's route is marked with white paint blazes, while the side trails for both are marked with blue blazes. The 1.3 miles of the Appalachian Trail from Maine Junction to Vermont Highway 100 are a blue-blazed side trail of the Long Trail, the only section of the entire AT which is not white-blazed.

Is this last sentence still true? A part of the AT is actually blue blazed?

[UCONNMike]

It could be a side trail, that leads back to the AT, maybe casue the original section was shut down? That could be it, but I'm not sure, it's a good question :)

[A-Train]

Every mile in 2003 was white blazed. I know there were some re-routes implemented in the past 5 or so years around the Long Trail junction. I'm sure our resident BB expert Wolf could tell you for sure.

[hungryhowie]

Until 2001, the trail followed a different route down to the Inn at Long Trail, and a different route up to Maine Junction. In order to assure permanent protection, the trail was rerouted around a ski area on Killington Peak. The "old" AT is now a blue blaze, but many hikers take it down to the Inn at Long Trail and continue on it up to Maine Junction. The "official" AT, meanwhile, meanders across the road about 1-mile down toward Rutland. If a hiker were to take the "official" trail down to the road, hike/hitch/stay at the Inn, it is possible that he/she may take the blue-blazed trail up to Maine Junction inadvertently (or on purpose). I'm guessing this is what the hiker did, and just didn't realize it.

When I hiked in 2000, I hike the "official" trail, which is now the old trail. When I came back in 2001 to do the LT, I took the "old" trail again for old time's sake. Upon reaching Maine Junction, however, I realized that I had forgotten to refuel in town, so headed down the "official" AT back to the road to hitch into Rutland, and then back up the "official" AT to continue my hike.

On a side note, there are several short sections in the Whites that aren't white blazed. It's the same kind of thing there, older trails taking precedence over the newer sibling.

-howie

[saimyoji]

As per expertise ala WF: "The A.T. and the Long Trail are contiguous from the Massachusetts-Vermont border to Maine Junction. Both are white blazed in this section. The official A.T. is never blue blazed. "

I can't comment.

[saimyoji]

Until 2001, the trail followed a different route down to the Inn at Long Trail, and a different route up to Maine Junction. In order to assure permanent protection, the trail was rerouted around a ski area on Killington Peak. The "old" AT is now a blue blaze, but many hikers take it down to the Inn at Long Trail and continue on it up to Maine Junction. The "official" AT, meanwhile, meanders across the road about 1-mile down toward Rutland. If a hiker were to take the "official" trail down to the road, hike/hitch/stay at the Inn, it is possible that he/she may take the blue-blazed trail up to Maine Junction inadvertently (or on purpose). I'm guessing this is what the hiker did, and just didn't realize it.
-howie
Well, George did his hike in 1983, so.... Quite a bit different then I guess.

[Lone Wolf]

I know Jack *****t.

[Jack Lincoln]

I know his brother, Bull!

[SavageLlama]

Howie is right about Maine Junction. The official AT (and Long Trail) now crosses Route 4 about a mile below the Long Trail Inn. But I definitely recommend stopping in for a Vermont Black & Tan! (Guinness and Long Trail Ale) Best beer you'll have on the trail. Might want to try some of the Inn's infamous Guinness stew while you're at it.

I thru-hiked the Long Trail a few months ago and can also attest that the LT is contiguously white-blazed from end-to-end (Mass to Canada).

[zephyr1034]

Due to bureaucratic silliness on the part of the National Park Service, the Trail route is not blazed through the town of Harpers Ferry. Going north, one has to pass Jefferson Rock, descend the steps, go right on High Street, left on Shenandoah Street, cross Potomac Street to the Goodloe Byron Memorial Footbridge across the Potomac, all without the benefit of blazes. Fortunately, the consequences of becoming lost in Harper's Ferry would not be severe.

You can't say that about the portion of the GSMNP between Newfound Gap and Davenport Gap, close to 40 miles. Last I heard, that wasn't blazed either. Since the adjoining portion between Newfound Gap and Fontana Dam IS blazed in white, I don't imagine that the Park Service is responsible.

[Lone Wolf]

Newfound to Davenport is 30 miles and is blazed.

[Mountain Dew]

I remember seeing white blazes in Harpers Ferry. Have you ever hiked through there ?

[kncats]

The last time I was in Harper's Ferry the blazes were along the sidewalk and curbs.

[The Old Fhart]

hungryhowie-“On a side note, there are several short sections in the Whites that aren't white blazed. It's the same kind of thing there, older trails taking precedence over the newer sibling.” I don’t know of any section in the Whites that isn’t white blazed. If you read the trail signs in the Whites they will have the local trail names (that might date from the 1800s) first but they also always have the A.T. listed second. The USFS, with its gutted budget, tries its best to maintain the A.T. through the Presidentials but this, coupled with the severe weather above tree line, can lead to white blazes being missing or obliterated in sections. This doesn’t mean the trail isn’t white blazed or marked, it is just not marked or white blazed the way you’d expect.

When I first did Maine about 15 years ago I did find one section where there wasn’t a white blaze for 0.75 miles which made me a little nervous until I looked behind me and noticed a white blaze for the opposite direction. It was white blazed, the blazes were just a great distance apart. Eleven years later when I thru hiked, the blazing and the trail in Maine was excellent.

So what I’m saying is don’t confuse the lack of seeing a blaze with the trail not being blazed. The A.T. is white blazed and signed from end to end. Sometimes the signage and blazing isn’t perfect but it is there if you look for it. Some of the previous posts made it sound like you would see other colors substituted for the white blazes but I haven’t seen that. You can see some other colors in addition to the white blazes in some areas (black-orange in D.O.C., Hanover area) but it is always white blazed.

[Footslogger]

I don’t know of any section in the Whites that isn’t white blazed. =====================================
Yes ...the Whites are blazed but I gotta tell ya, some of those blazes are a tad obscure if you're headed northbound.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[wacocelt]

Hiking SoBo you quite often have to look back over your shoulder to make sure you're still on the trail.

[DebW]

The AT above Tline in the Presidential Range is sometimes blazed both yellow and white. The Gulfside Trail which the AT follows north of Mt. Washington was blazed yellow and still is. But white blazes have been added. So you may see 2 yellow blazes and then a white one and then another yellow one. But never white and yellow at the same place. A little confusing, but every signpost will show which way the AT goes. Perhaps they are just letting the yellow blazes fade off the rocks.

[rickb]

If memory (aided by my 1983 Data Book) serves George was 100% correct.

The AT route heading north from the Inn at the Long Trail (US 4) was also part of the Long Trail and was blazed white for the next .6 miles to the junction where the AT and the Long Trail split. What to do there? In 19AT3, the Long Trail turned to the left with the white blazes, and the AT turned to the right with blue blazes. These blue blues continued for a good while-- if George wrote that the went all the way to Gillford Woods State Park/VT 100, I would't doubt it.

Howie- George didn't take the wrong Trail. George is writing about the AT stretch between Gifford Woods and the the intesection with the long trail. Even today, they is only one path you can take between those points.

------

My theory on the yellow blazes in the White Mountains of which Deb speaks is is that they are nothing more than the product of impure (finally a good use of that word) white paint. That's my theory anyway. EDIT: But I sure wouldn't testify to that! Deb is probably 100% correct.


Rick B
ME=>GA 19AT3

[Youngblood]

It has been a few years and memory is fading on some of the details, but I thought that in the Whites, that at times I had to get my maps out at trail junctions to see which trail the AT used because I couldn't locate any white blazes. Is my memory letting me down or where the white blazes there and I just didn't see them? ... I was under the impression that you couldn't count on using white blazes on the AT in the Whites.

Youngblood

[poison_ivy]

I'm with Youngblood. There are portions of the AT in the Whites that are blazed yellow above treeline. The white blazes are really few and far between in some areas (I'm thinking around the presidentials & possibly along the Twinway.)

- Ivy

[The Old Fhart]

On the blazing in the Presidentials, I am correct in saying that it is white blazed but I did mentioned that there are areas where other colors are used as well. DebW is also correct is mentioning that there are yellow blazes of sorts in that area. I checked my 1969, 1979, 1987, and 2003 AMC White Mountain guides for the Gulfside Trail, basically Washington to Madison, and all the guides say: “The trail is well marked with large cairns, each topped with a yellow painted stone.” (My 1928 AMC guide mentions cairns but no paint.) I don’t know of any 2”x 6” yellow blazes, just the painted stones topping the cairns. Both the 1987 and 2003 mention that: “the trails that compose the Appalachian Trail (AT) through the White Mountains are marked with vertical white paint blazes throughout” Again, the signs all have the local trail name followed by the A.T. designation. I hope this clears things up some.

[weary]

The AT above Tline in the Presidential Range is sometimes blazed both yellow and white. The Gulfside Trail which the AT follows north of Mt. Washington was blazed yellow and still is. But white blazes have been added. So you may see 2 yellow blazes and then a white one and then another yellow one. But never white and yellow at the same place. A little confusing, but every signpost will show which way the AT goes. Perhaps they are just letting the yellow blazes fade off the rocks.
I forget the date, (It was the same weekend man first walked on the moon) but the first time I hiked the Mahoosuc Range between New Hampshire and Maine I got to the top of the ridge and somehow missed the white blazes and followed a cream colored blaze for a mile or two out of the way before realizing I was lost.

On one of our town land trust preserves some friendly kids from a nearby private school won points for "community service" by repainting some faded yellow blazes orange. The only problem is they only did half the loop trail, which is difficult to explain on the trail maps I produce on my computer to guide trail users.

Weary

[Youngblood]

On the blazing in the Presidentials, I am correct in saying that it is white blazed but I did mentioned that there are areas where other colors are used as well. DebW is also correct is mentioning that there are yellow blazes of sorts in that area. I checked my 1969, 1979, 1987, and 2003 AMC White Mountain guides for the Gulfside Trail, basically Washington to Madison, and all the guides say: “The trail is well marked with large cairns, each topped with a yellow painted stone.” (My 1928 AMC guide mentions cairns but no paint.) I don’t know of any 2”x 6” yellow blazes, just the painted stones topping the cairns. Both the 1987 and 2003 mention that: “the trails that compose the Appalachian Trail (AT) through the White Mountains are marked with vertical white paint blazes throughout” Again, the signs all have the local trail name followed by the A.T. designation. I hope this clears things up some.
I realize that you are very familar with that area and I believe you. I probably didn't do a good job of reading all the details in the trail guides, got a little confused becauses things where different in the Whites, etc. ... I'll try and do better next time. :)

Youngblood

[The Old Fhart]

Youngblood, as familiar as I am with that area, I have to check some times. With so many trails and so many signs, it's easy to get confused. :)

[Footslogger]

Youngblood, as familiar as I am with that area, I have to check some times. With so many trails and so many signs, it's easy to get confused. :)=================================
Your post made me think about my hike near Madison in 2003. I was hiking alone and just about to the peak. I got distracted by a hiker off to the left (guess that would have been sort of West with regard to my position) and saw a blaze. I figured, what the heck, and headed over his way. By the time I had gotten to the point where I had spotted him he was gone. I stood in one place and did a 360. Saw a cairn way (and I mean WAY) off to my right with what appeared to be a while blaze on it. I backtracked and got on course again. Point being, that there are a lot of trails in the Whites and it's risky just following someone who you THINK is on the AT and just a little ahead of you. Then again ...if that cairn with the white blaze had been a bit more viseable I probably wouldn't have veered off course.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[hungryhowie]

Howie- George didn't take the wrong Trail. George is writing about the AT stretch between Gifford Woods and the the intesection with the long trail. Even today, they is only one path you can take between those points.

Rick, Gifford Woods is north of Maine Junction, correct? Details are fuzzy and I don't have a guide with me right now. He must've been heading southbound, eh? Oh well. That and it was 1983...

The Old Fhart,

Perhaps the white blazes are there, just few and far between. But in some sections, especially above treeline, I sometimes didn't see a white blaze for an entire section between trail interchanges. Granted, that doesn't mean they're not there, but if I could miss'em all, then so could other people, and therefore, it's at least not effectively white blazed. Other times I might see white blazes, just infrequently enough to make me start wondering if I was still even on the trail.

Not all trail intersections mark the Appalachian Trail in the Whites either, contrary to a previous post (Deb?). A particular one that comes to mind is the one just north of Osgood Tentsite (it's actually at another campground there, I just can't remember the name). Aparently, the AT turned right back toward Mt. Washington. The sign didn't mark either of them, and I walked down both paths for a half mile or so without seeing any white blazes. I took the left trail and knew within a mile that I wasn't on the AT anymore because it was such a nice trail. None of the rocks or roots like on the AT through the Whites. But I was having such a good time on that path that I kept on walking. A couple of miles later I ended up at a car camping campground. Great day.

-howie

[The Old Fhart]

hungryhowie- "Perhaps the white blazes are there, just few and far between. ...it's at least not effectively white blazed. ............Not all trail intersections mark the Appalachian Trail in the Whites eitherYou raise some good points but I'd like to explain. First, without getting into the politics of why, I mentioned the US Forest Service maintains much of that section, and their budget has been gutted. They do the best they can with very limited manpower but often the trail blazing isn’t up to the standards they would want. With the severe weather above tree line the blazes don’t last that long and neither do the signs. I think TJ said the sign on Baxter has to be replaced about every three years and the conditions in the Whites are similar. Bottom line is that it makes it a little rough on the thru hikers who generally have never been there before if the white blazes aren't repainted and the signs checked yearly. However the trail is, by definition anyway, white blazed.

As to the signs in the area, I don’t claim to know each one but they do indicate the A.T. either by word (check here (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/4274/sort/1/cat/526/page/1) to see a typical AMC/NHDP sign), or by the Appalachian National Scenic Trail logo which might be easy to miss.

There a fantastic number of interconnecting trails in this area and this is why the Thru-hiker’s Handbook, the guide books, and many of the posters on WhiteBlaze stress the importance of maps and guidebooks in this area. Maps and compass are always important (I think necessary) but even more so in the Whites. I’ve met disgruntled thru-hikers coming down the Lonesome Lake trail to Franconia Notch when the Cascade Brook trail, which they missed, is actually the A.T.. The junction of those two trails is one place I know the signs indicate which way to go.

[hungryhowie]

I'd just like to make sure you realize that I'm not complaining about the lack of blazes in the area. The original question just asked about any places lacking blazes, and whether they're there or not, I didn't see them. that's all.

-howie

[The Old Fhart]

Howie, I knew you didn't mean it as a complaint, just a point or observation, and a valid one. I just wanted to make sure everyone knows why these conditions exist and that this area can be a problem for those who aren't carrying infomation or don't pay extra attention.

[rickb]

Rick, Gifford Woods is north of Maine Junction, correct? ....
_________


Yup. George was heading North. I think you just got the route numbers mixed up. He was forced to walk the blue Blazes after passing by the Inn, and after the Long Trail split with the AT.

Rick--

Who now realizes that he can proudly lay claim to having hiked the trail as a blue blazer. ;-)

[chomp]

In all seriousness, there are large sections of the AT in NH that are neither blazed nor signed. I am suprised that Jack hasn't chimed in yet, but most of the trails in the Whites have been around longer than the AT. I believe that this leads to a bit of elitism with those doing trail work, in that the AT just uses the existing trails. And don't get me wrong, I am not being negitive about this, it is nice to see all of the unique trail names in this area (Fishin Jimmy, White House, Crawford Path, Beaver Brook, Twinway to name a few) and it gives the place some character. Just be aware that marking what is the AT and what is not the AT isn't the top priority of the trail crews in the Whites. Several times I KNEW which way the trail went, but I couldn't find a blaze or a sign - I seem to recall in and around Zeacliff to be a particularly rough section as far as trail markings go.

This is all just part of the adventure. Be aware of it, gather information, and don't be afraid to use your maps for something else than the elevation profile for the day.

[Lilred]

I know his brother, Bull!

And his Uncle, Noah...

[rocket04]

I know that when I went through the Wild Cats in '04, there was a part where I wondered if I was going the right way and thought several times of going back because there were no blazes for a long stretch. When I first ran into a group of hikers, my first question was "This is still the AT, right?" Much to my relief, they answered affirmatively.

[The Gnome]

There is a section as you cross I-77 in central Virginia that is very badly blazed. Going north, the A.T. crosses over the interstate on a minor road bridge and “appears” to carry straight on into the woods at a T-junction. There is a foot tread leading up a ridgeline. As this is exactly the sort of traverse I expected and I wanted to get away from the roar of the trucks, it’s the trail I took. However, it’s a dead end.
There is even a blaze on the crash barrier just where this trail starts, but its horizontal, which apparently means locally that the A.T. changes direction at this point. The A.T. actually runs along side the road for about 500yds with the occasional blaze on the posts behind the traffic barrier. If you are not looking very carefully, these are easy to miss as there are very faded and the metal is a light gray color. At the end of this road section, the A.T. turns 170 degrees to the right and drops into a gully. There is a single blaze at this important turn, on a tree sticking out of a mound of attractive domestic trash.
I wandered around this area for an hour or more before spotting a blaze. This convinced me of the need to carry the Companion!
If you are going southbound, it is equally confusing as on the opposite side of the road to the trash pile, there is another trail entering the woods and no blazes to indicate that the A.T. follows the road up the hill.
Part of the problem here is that the crash barriers get damaged by imbibing locals and replaced. Hence the blazes vanish in an area where the trail is complex to follow

[loansome walker]

Why does everbody forget about his brother deep?

[Moxie00]

In 1998 there were either no or very faded white blazes from the sumit of Old Spec to Grafton Notch. I met a Swiss gentleman who had gotten lost, followed the old fire wardens trail to the end and bushwacked his way to route 26. I complained to the Applichian Money Club (AMC) that is responsable for maintance in that section. I got a very nasty e-mail back saying that they had paid a couple of Bowdoin students to white blaze that section of trail and the students had reported to them the trail was well marked and I didn't know what I was talking about. I know the trail in that area and I had a bad time following it that year. A few weeks later I happened to be driving thriugh Brunswick, Maine and I noticed the DKE fraternity house had freshly painted white trim. I wonder if that was what happened to the blazes??????
:-?

[Nean]

It is my (mis)understanding that the "official" AT through Damascus is actually the Creeper trail, yet town politics have kept the white blazes down Main St., which I'm all for by the way! Compared to where I'm from- Big D, little d IS wilderness;)

[Ender]

In 1998 I remember (vaguely) that coming out of Hanover, NH the blazes were black and orange and white, or something to that affect. I also remember waking up one morning while layed over there, and I wasn't starving like I normalyl was when I woke up. When I looked around, I found an empty candy wrapper next to me. Apparently, I'm a sleep-eater... :eek:

[Mags]

Well, George did his hike in 1983, so.... Quite a bit different then I guess.


The story: As most of you know, the LT came before the AT. The LT used white blazes for the main trail and blue blazes for the side trails. Since the AT is a sidetrail off the main LT (of course), the AT *was* marked with blue blazes on the GMC section of the At past the Maine Junction. At least in 1998 when I went through, you could still see (VERY FAINTLY!) the old blue blazes. Some older Vermonters called the AT "..that 2000 mile side trail. :)

Of course, the LT and the AT now use the same blazing regardless of section it is in.

On a similar vein, the Darmouth Outing Club used to use black and orange "tiger blazes" for their section of the AT. Again, in 1998, you could still see these faint "tiger blazes" on the AT section through there. As with the GMC, the DOC now uses white blazes.

[Moon Monster]

"that 2000 mile side trail"--I like that

The list of stealth campsites in the Whites that I saw in the hostel in Glencliff noted that there was a short blue-balzed stretch in the Whites just before Madison Spring Hut going north. I saw this in July 2003. It was short, literally like 2 or 3 blazes. They were blue and on the Gulfside Tr/AT at Thunderstorm Junction just off the summit of Mt Adams. Something like 5 trails came together at one point and it seemed the AMC took the blue blazes from the summit trail to one of the trails that falls off the ridge and led them down accross the AT, overlapping it, for a few dozen yards. But they were on the AT and there were no alternative braided trails or white blazes that could have been the AT. It also looked to me that these blue blazes were painted on top of older white blazes, but I couldn't be sure.