View Full Version : Don't Touch This Flag!
88BlueGT
04-11-2011, 12:31
Over the weekend I did a short hike with my GF around the Catfish Fire Tower in Blairstown, NJ (close to DWG). We came across this flag about 1-2 miles past the fire-tower, seemed like a great picture. Soooooooo, I step onto the rock that the flag is cemented into and BAMMMMMMMMMMM! Serious electric shock runs through my limbs! Someone thought it would be a great idea to cement an American Flag into the ground right under the power lines and somehow this thing is live! I grazed my hand against the pole and all 5 of my fingers were numb for 2-3 minutes. Just thought I'd let everyone know, this thing is dangerous as it sits right on the edge of a cliff :cool:
Great idea, looks great, not that great for innocent hikers who aren't aware this thing is live. Just an FYI for everyone!
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/88bluegt22/th_FlagPic.jpg?t=1302539343
WingedMonkey
04-11-2011, 12:34
Nice attempt at being patriotic but it violates about many parts of the United States Flag Code.
Snowleopard
04-11-2011, 12:58
Contact the electric company immediately and give them the location. If you're getting shocks from the power lines it could be very dangerous and the electric company should fix it before somebody gets killed.
Pedaling Fool
04-11-2011, 13:15
Do you have a bigger pic? You make it sound as if the flagpole is not connected to anything (other than being planted in the rock), in which case I tend to think the pole is being charge, much like a capacitor. You would think it being in the ground that would prevent a charge from accumulating, but you said it's in rock. How was that done?
88BlueGT
04-11-2011, 13:30
It looks as if the flag is cemented into a rock, yes. I first stood up on the rock and grazed the pole, got shocked. You will only get shocked though if you are standing ON that rock. If your on the dirt, nothing.
I will try and post a bigger picture.
88BlueGT
04-11-2011, 13:33
http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/88bluegt22/?action=view¤t=FlagPic.jpg
You should be able to just click the link and get a full size picture.
88BlueGT
04-11-2011, 13:35
I would contact the power company but I have no idea how to even go about that, I live 2 hours away and am not familiar with anything in that area.
sixguns01
04-11-2011, 13:40
Over the weekend I did a short hike with my GF around the Catfish Fire Tower in Blairstown, NJ (close to DWG). We came across this flag about 1-2 miles past the fire-tower, seemed like a great picture. Soooooooo, I step onto the rock that the flag is cemented into and BAMMMMMMMMMMM! Serious electric shock runs through my limbs! Someone thought it would be a great idea to cement an American Flag into the ground right under the power lines and somehow this thing is live! I grazed my hand against the pole and all 5 of my fingers were numb for 2-3 minutes. Just thought I'd let everyone know, this thing is dangerous as it sits right on the edge of a cliff :cool:
Great idea, looks great, not that great for innocent hikers who aren't aware this thing is live. Just an FYI for everyone!
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/88bluegt22/th_FlagPic.jpg?t=1302539343
Packed DWG to Buttermilk last weekend and checked out the flag. Took some photos but didn't touch it.
Lucky
trailangelbronco
04-11-2011, 13:47
It will be struck by lightning.
88BlueGT
04-11-2011, 13:54
Packed DWG to Buttermilk last weekend and checked out the flag. Took some photos but didn't touch it.
Lucky
+1 LUCKY YOU. Just hope everyone is that lucky. Someone is bound to grab that pole and get hurt though. And the worst part about it, if you get shocked, lose your footing and fall backwards off the rock, you will either be seriously injured or dead. No question about it.
Rain Man
04-11-2011, 14:31
Nice attempt at being patriotic but it violates about many parts of the United States Flag Code.
Which means ... it's not a nice attempt at being patriotic.
Rain Man
.
Sickmont
04-11-2011, 15:07
I guess that'll learn ya to keep from touchin other people's stuff.....
88BlueGT
04-11-2011, 15:26
ummmmmmmmm yea? OK? Another quality post...
LoneRidgeRunner
04-11-2011, 15:51
ummmmmmmmm yea? OK? Another quality post...
Yea really...."Guess that'll learn you....."...You were trying to warn and protect others and some smart alec can think of nothing better to say....More people should take the time to try and warn others of dangers like you did... and the smart alecs should be the one who gets fried.. good job to the OP
wrongway_08
04-11-2011, 15:53
Damn dirty arse hikers - keep outta the woods and ya won't get shocked!
This is mother natures way of say'n keep outta the woods.
Just go play at REI indoor climbing wall and leave the outdoors to the animals.
The woods are no longer safe - booby traps everywhere.
Had to be a midget - look how short the flag is.
Bet it was a hiker dog, one of those unleashed ones - damn dog owners, let'n them run amuck.
High schoolers on spring break, weed smokin' - drunk S.O.B.'s.
Is it a UV protected flag? That could be the problem, build up of UV rays in a nongroundable concreate base.
Sickmont
04-11-2011, 15:54
Gentlemen, please, rest you spinchters i WAS JOKING. However, i can see where my sarcastic attempt at humor may have not come across the way i wanted it to, so i apologize for that.
LoneRidgeRunner
04-11-2011, 16:03
Gentlemen, please, rest you spinchters i WAS JOKING. However, i can see where my sarcastic attempt at humor may have not come across the way i wanted it to, so i apologize for that.
Then I apologize also Sickmont for jumping on you.. The problem is when something is typed and read on a computer monitor it's impossible to hear the "tone" or see facial expressions which would usually determine how a remark was meant to be taken... My sphincter is now relaxed...:D
Sickmont
04-11-2011, 16:08
Then I apologize also Sickmont for jumping on you.. The problem is when something is typed and read on a computer monitor it's impossible to hear the "tone" or see facial expressions which would usually determine how a remark was meant to be taken... My sphincter is now relaxed...:D
Hey no problem. I guess next time i ought to add a smilie or two in there, huh? :D
LoneRidgeRunner
04-11-2011, 16:12
Hey no problem. I guess next time i ought to add a smilie or two in there, huh? :D
A smiley icon would have been a dead give away that you meant it as a joke.. and my sphincter wouldn't have puckered up...lol...
88BlueGT
04-11-2011, 16:16
Yea smileys work lol
So, now the question is, what do you do to notify someone of this problem? Where to even start? I'm sure that others have done this same thing but I feel obligated to tell someone. All I need is to read a thread on here next week about someone getting hurt because of it.
LoneRidgeRunner
04-11-2011, 16:28
Yea smileys work lol
So, now the question is, what do you do to notify someone of this problem? Where to even start? I'm sure that others have done this same thing but I feel obligated to tell someone. All I need is to read a thread on here next week about someone getting hurt because of it.
Hmm..I'm not sure of the best approach either GT... If you live in the area maybe a good start would be to try and contact the electric company if somehow the flag is getting charged in some way by being close to the power source... I really wouldn't know who or what agency would take the responsibility of removing the flag but it seems that's what needs to be done. But just how could it be done safely is the big question. From the way you described the shock it seems like enough of a jolt to be dangerous to some one with a weak heart or maybe someone who was wet at the time of contact. Or possibly cause someone to get off balance and fall over that rock cliff. You have made an effort by posting about it here so that should serve to clear your conscience. My hat's off to you for your concern for the safety of others. Wish I could be more helpful..
Sickmont
04-11-2011, 16:31
Have you tried to do a google search of power companies in that specific area and see if any contact info comes up?
find the ranger station for that district and give them a call. they'll go look at it immediately.
Pedaling Fool
04-11-2011, 17:08
http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/88bluegt22/?action=view¤t=FlagPic.jpg
You should be able to just click the link and get a full size picture.
Yeah, someone made a big capacitor. Without a proper grounding of the pole it is being charged from the powerlines and since they didn't proplerly ground it you get a shock. http://cialab.ee.washington.edu/tutorials/index_files/Page266.htm
mweinstone
04-11-2011, 17:30
alot of sillyness here. please alow me.
powerlines dont need fixing just because metle becomes charged and shocks folks around it. its what it does. ask anyone who was parked in our lot at the alda gathering in gettysburg. under those powerlines each and every car door became a tazer . we , jester mostly, took turnes shocking innocent walkerbys. it was a game. thats why you dond hang around close to lines. now. as far as how low the lines are to the ground at that point and what type of ferrous rock the pole is in, yes, the rock may be such a large capacitor that it would shock you without the pole if it were raining. im thinking thats how it was discovered by our would be murderers, we need to remove it. they shocked themselves on a damp day and came up with the flag idea and may be sitting at home waiting for news of tragety. everyone stop touching the pole and put a barrakade of rocks or bramble with a note in plastic. then call everyone. as far as how strong the shock is, i want you to really give us a conservative estimate compareing it to other shocks you have received.
Hikerhead
04-11-2011, 17:32
Yeah, someone made a big capacitor. Without a proper grounding of the pole it is being charged from the powerlines and since they didn't proplerly ground it you get a shock. http://cialab.ee.washington.edu/tutorials/index_files/Page266.htm
Yeah, a build up of static electricity. Get some super thick rubber gloves and pull it out of the ground. Not a good place for it.
BTW, hike underneath it on a wet day with your poles in the air, it's refreshing. That is if it's anything like the power line right before dropping off of Tinker Mtn south of Daleville, Va.
mweinstone
04-11-2011, 17:32
the rock needs to be covered with an acrylic cement or blasted.or a gaurd rail and posted signage. this is awfull.
88BlueGT
04-11-2011, 17:54
First of all, Noone said that there was a murderer on the loose trying to kill hikers by touching the poll, simply not the case. The thread was made to inform people about the pole so noone gets hurt, if you think this is dumb maybe you should be the person to grab it next.
Also, Noone said that the powerlines should be repaired? Don't know where you are getting this information from but maybe you should start over and read the thread from the beginning.
I did call the ranger station and inform them of the pole. They were very kind and thankful for the heads up. Not sure if they care or will do anything about it but I did my part.
88BlueGT
04-11-2011, 17:58
One more thing, and I'm not concerned about someone grabbing the pole and getting seriously injured from the shock but the simple fact that the rock that it's embedded in is on the edge of a steep drop. All it takes is one little kid to run up, grab that pole and fall off causing serious damage.
Skidsteer
04-11-2011, 18:02
One more thing, and I'm not concerned about someone grabbing the pole and getting seriously injured from the shock...
You should be. You were lucky you were able to let go of the thing.
RITBlake
04-11-2011, 18:14
Very interesting thread.
I like the guys who scold him for violating flag code but ignore the fact that this thread could potentially save someone's life. If the flag pole is charged and is next to a cliff edge, it's just a matter of time.....
http://www.rabascoconstruction.com/shock1.jpg
RITBlake
04-11-2011, 18:15
What is along the base? Is that electrical tape?
WingedMonkey
04-11-2011, 18:56
What is along the base? Is that electrical tape?
If the fools who installed it cared, or all the hikers that have ignored flag etiquette cared, it would have already been taken down, instead of held on to or saluted and photographed. You are right, it's too bad that it takes a safety concern to get attention.
:sun
lutefisk
04-11-2011, 22:33
What is along the base? Is that electrical tape?
It looks like they insulated the base of the pole so it isn't grounded. They may have set this up to shock on purpose.
BigHodag
04-11-2011, 23:09
Appreciate the heads up as I'm traversing that section soon. I'll follow up on its status when I pass by.
Nice attempt at being patriotic but it violates about many parts of the United States Flag Code.
U.S. flag code does not fully apply unless the person planting the flag was a federal employee on duty or if the flag is on federal property. The flag code is only binding on to federal agencies, federal employees, and residents of DC. Note the use of "should" versus "shall" in the civilian parts.
States and citizens are not bound by the U.S. flag code. Citizens are free to create their own 'American" flags and display them as they see fit. One may use fewer or more than 50 stars or make them red & blue to correspond to the last electoral college. The flag in the photo is not the American flag, but the flag of the United States, at least according to federal law aka the "flag code"
http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/04C1.txt
The military does a great job training our armed forces on the flag code, but fails to include that it applies only to federal agencies & employees.
BTW, safety always out weighs the federal flag code.
-BigHodag, MSgt, USAF (ret.)
Damn dirty arse hikers - keep outta the woods and ya won't get shocked!
This is mother natures way of say'n keep outta the woods.
Just go play at REI indoor climbing wall and leave the outdoors to the animals.
The woods are no longer safe - booby traps everywhere.
Had to be a midget - look how short the flag is.
Bet it was a hiker dog, one of those unleashed ones - damn dog owners, let'n them run amuck.
High schoolers on spring break, weed smokin' - drunk S.O.B.'s.
Is it a UV protected flag? That could be the problem, build up of UV rays in a nongroundable concreate base.
Well, look who's back and posting at Whiteblaze. :)
Hiking soon? I'll be headed back to do another chunk of Pa. later this month (23rd - 26th).
Busy?
WingedMonkey
04-11-2011, 23:43
This code is the guide for all handling and display of the Stars and Stripes. It does not impose penalties for misuse of the United States Flag. That is left to the states and to the federal government for the District of Columbia. Each state has its own flag law.
According to the Appalachian Trail Conference Web site: "the Appalachian Trail is a privately managed unit of the national park system."
Did not think any one was breaking any laws, was saying it was disrespectful, and in my opinion some one should have taken the battered, storm beaten, red stripe missing, ground touching flag down and properly disposed of it. The Boy Scout in me comes out despite being a lefty.
:sun
stranger
04-12-2011, 02:37
Even nature knows Nationalism is wrong :)
RITBlake
04-12-2011, 10:04
It looks like they insulated the base of the pole so it isn't grounded. They may have set this up to shock on purpose.
Thats what I was thinking.
ScrapIron
04-12-2011, 23:36
They ought to have a pucked sphincter emoticon...
A quick fix of this would simply be a copper rod driven into the ground and a short length of wire connected to the flag pole, or even simply a sign warning people.
mweinstone
04-13-2011, 08:47
can a bulb be attatched and lite from the charge? can i charge my phone?
a large circus tent of metle bug netting connected to it as the worlds largest bug zapper protected sleeping area. and the noise on a buggy night would be called " symphany of sweet death". and a bug moat would entrench the tent collecting bugs 4 feet deep. a bug compost would be established nearby for the cleanouts of the bug moat. the soil produced from bug carci would be sold to produce the cd of bug zapping symphanys witch would be sold to produce skynet. a global automated network of computers.
Joshuatree
04-13-2011, 09:43
The flag needs to be moved its picking up stray voltage from the lines and as the demand for power increases so will the shock. Your probley lucky it wasn't a hot day with lots AC's going which increases the power demand. So they push more power through the lines causeing more stray voltage, it also heats the lines up which causes them to sag so they would get closer to the ground and to the flag pole. A grounding rod wouldn't make any differance it would just cause the flag pole to pick up more voltage and give a worse shock to the next picture seeker.
Don't Quote me on this I'm reguritating what my grandfather explained to me when I would ride around with him to check on his Line crews as a kid I thought it was cool to watch them ground the trucks to the high voltage lines you would see a bolt of electircity jump out from the line a couple feet then they got the hot sticks close
sixguns01
04-13-2011, 12:49
Appreciate the heads up as I'm traversing that section soon. I'll follow up on its status when I pass by.
U.S. flag code does not fully apply unless the person planting the flag was a federal employee on duty or if the flag is on federal property. The flag code is only binding on to federal agencies, federal employees, and residents of DC. Note the use of "should" versus "shall" in the civilian parts.
States and citizens are not bound by the U.S. flag code. Citizens are free to create their own 'American" flags and display them as they see fit. One may use fewer or more than 50 stars or make them red & blue to correspond to the last electoral college. The flag in the photo is not the American flag, but the flag of the United States, at least according to federal law aka the "flag code"
http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/04C1.txt
The military does a great job training our armed forces on the flag code, but fails to include that it applies only to federal agencies & employees.
BTW, safety always out weighs the federal flag code.
-BigHodag, MSgt, USAF (ret.)
Blows my mind that people are actually debating "Flag Code" over this very helpful post!!!
The nail that stands out gets hammered down!
It looks like they insulated the base of the pole so it isn't grounded. They may have set this up to shock on purpose.
Doubt it. I was there three weeks ago, and it didn't look like a trap set up on purpose.
88BlueGT
04-13-2011, 14:35
Blows my mind that people are actually debating "Flag Code" over this very helpful post!!!
The nail that stands out gets hammered down!
It's OK I have been part of many internet forums for some time now, I have seen and dealt with them all! I've learned not to sweat douchebag comments :rolleyes:
Thanks for being smart enough to realize this thread is more than 'Flag Code'
BostonPro
04-13-2011, 15:17
Wow how close is it to the cliff? Is it right off the edge of that rock? I would go back to the fire tower or the closest Ranger station and tell them and have them take care of it. Plastic bags with notes, not just one note, leave a couple, just to warn people not to touch it.
Bags4266
04-13-2011, 15:23
Is that Yards Creek in the backround? There is a large Boy Scout camp just below, if so you know all those little peckerheads will definitly be fooling around next to it.
88BlueGT
04-13-2011, 15:45
Wow how close is it to the cliff? Is it right off the edge of that rock? I would go back to the fire tower or the closest Ranger station and tell them and have them take care of it. Plastic bags with notes, not just one note, leave a couple, just to warn people not to touch it.
Yes, there is a cliff directly behind the flag, you can see it in the pictures even though it does not look all THAT steep. I can assure you that it is steep enough that it would be pretty easily to slip backwards w a pack on your back and go tumbling down.
I contacted the ranger station on Monday and let them know. They seemed interested but never got back to me.
88BlueGT
04-13-2011, 15:47
Is that Yards Creek in the backround? There is a large Boy Scout camp just below, if so you know all those little peckerheads will definitly be fooling around next to it.
Not sure if it is Yards Creek or not but there is what seems to be a large boy scout camp down there... I heard them screaming and chanting while I was trying to have a peaceful hiking trip and trying to sleep with my GF! :rolleyes:
WalkinHome
04-14-2011, 10:14
Well a GOOD ground would make it safe (the fix is to remove the pole). Electricity is lazy and will take the path of least resistance. If there is a GOOD ground then it will go there. If you are a better ground, it will flow through you. Don't touch or maybe throw your buddy up against it first to test it LOL.
Goridewithme
07-01-2011, 16:37
I hope you don't mind but I searched for patriotic pics and the A T and this came up. I posted it on my facebook page for the AT in Pa. Love the pic and let me know.
it's here...
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Appalachian-Trail-Pennsylvania/119319848132252
LIhikers
07-01-2011, 16:50
Yea smileys work lol
So, now the question is, what do you do to notify someone of this problem? Where to even start? I'm sure that others have done this same thing but I feel obligated to tell someone. All I need is to read a thread on here next week about someone getting hurt because of it.
How about an e-mail to the New York/New Jersey Trail Conference?
I bet there's someplace on their website to contact them.
Carl in FL
07-01-2011, 17:28
Grounding the pole will not fully remove the risk, due to the step voltage.
The only proper solution is to move the pole from the electromagnetic
field of the power lines, which is the cause of the induced voltage.