View Full Version : Controversy over 100-Mile Wilderness Stops
XCskiNYC
04-14-2011, 13:42
Wikipedia's entry on the 100-mile wilderness says: "In 2000 a series of new logging roads and a marked side-trail offered hikers re-supply and lodging opportunities between miles 55 and 65 heading northbound from Monson. This commercial refuge is not officially recognized by the Appalachian Trail Conservancy and has been controversial since it became accessible."
Has it?
So they must mean the following (info from ALDHA Companion 2010):
Jo Mary Road (mile 2,123.1 from Springer, 56.0 to Katahdin). R, w (E - 6m C, G, cl, sh; 20m G).
The reference says the Jo Mary Road amenities are at a campground. And that traffic from the campground could get you a ride the 20 miles eastward, presumably to a full-on grocery store.
Next is Maher Trail, Maher Tote Rd (mile 2,133.1 from Springer, 46.0 from Katahdin). E - 1.2m G, L, M, sh, f.
It appears the Maher Trail amenities are part of the White House Landing Wilderness Camp. I love this part: "At boat dock, sound airhorn one short blast for ferry ride to camp."
Is all this really controversial?
Shutterbug
04-14-2011, 13:55
Wikipedia's entry on the 100-mile wilderness says: "In 2000 a series of new logging roads and a marked side-trail offered hikers re-supply and lodging opportunities between miles 55 and 65 heading northbound from Monson. This commercial refuge is not officially recognized by the Appalachian Trail Conservancy and has been controversial since it became accessible."
Has it?
So they must mean the following (info from ALDHA Companion 2010):
Jo Mary Road (mile 2,123.1 from Springer, 56.0 to Katahdin). R, w (E - 6m C, G, cl, sh; 20m G).
The reference says the Jo Mary Road amenities are at a campground. And that traffic from the campground could get you a ride the 20 miles eastward, presumably to a full-on grocery store.
Next is Maher Trail, Maher Tote Rd (mile 2,133.1 from Springer, 46.0 from Katahdin). E - 1.2m G, L, M, sh, f.
It appears the Maher Trail amenities are part of the White House Landing Wilderness Camp. I love this part: "At boat dock, sound airhorn one short blast for ferry ride to camp."
Is all this really controversial?
The write-up seems to be out of date. Neither the Jo Mary Road nor he Maher Tote Rd were new in 2,000. I don't know when either was established, but it would have been longer ago that 2000.
I would guess that the "controversy" they are talking about had to do with White House Landing signage. The first time I hiked that section in 2004, the controversy had pretty well been resolved. White House Landing had a business card thumbtacked to a tree at the Maher Tote Rd.
earlyriser26
04-14-2011, 15:24
Nothing new in the wilderness. WHL is about your only real option at limited re-supply. Also, as of Oct. 2010, the Maher tote rd. has a sign with a WHL business card thumb tacked to it. I have a nice picture of the sign if anyone is interested. The new AMC projects are not re-supply points.
I love this part: "At boat dock, sound airhorn one short blast for ferry ride to camp."
Is all this really controversial? - XCskiNYC
Well, I don't personally know about all the stuff about resupplying in the so called 100 mile wilderness just to say I have heard of those who did a resupply via Jo Mary Rd. I could be wrong, but it would seem you would need to arrange a ride along Jo Mary Rd ahead of time, hitch on a backcountry road with VERY LITTLE traffic, and/or risk a lengthy walk in one or both directions. I also am almost 100 % positive that Minnesota Smith and two other thru-hikers(forget their names, a father and son) in 2006 did mostly day hikes through the 100 mile wilderness, and a good part of Maine, by shelling out some bucks to have someone drive in to drop them off and pick them up most every day or drop off some resupplies(I think Minnesota and the elderly father were somehow injured). You can also pay to have someone come in via float plane or car(4 WD) and drop off supplies. ALL these scenarios seemed WAY too complicated, expensive, and unnecessary to me and, obviously, to almost every other hiker I've ever known to hike through the 100 mile wilderness.
Don't recall anything about resupplying via the Maher Tote Rd without having the AT Handbook in front of me. I''l tell you why. It's simpler, especially from a NOBO thru-hiker perspective, you are in thru-hiker shape by the time you hit the 100 mile wilderness so this group can make it through there in about 5-6 days, so no need for a resupply through the 100 mile wilderness. Emergencies or possible AT alternate routes excluded, hiking out for resupplying via either the two roads mentioned or some other road seems more hassle than needed!
I'll tell you another fallacy about the so called 100 mile wilderness. You MOST OFTEN can get ABOUT 2 days resupply, a night in a bunkhouse, shower, possibly do some laundry(I did via the lakeside crank-the-handle old school laundry ringer), a decent meal(burgers, GOOD pizza, Ramen, sandwiches, etc) right at White House Landing. I would STRONGLY advise that you call ahead of time to inquire about such things as open dates, bed availability, EXACTLY what resupply/food, and amenities are presently available BEFORE leaving to hike through the 100 mile wilderness!!! The owners, in 2006, had mentioned to me they were thinking about selling and/or moving. Adjust resupply as needed BEFORE heading into the 100 mile wilderness!!!
Yes, that's the way you get to Whitehouse Landing, so no controversy there. You hike about a short 1 mile signed blue blazed trail to a dock on a lake, blast a provided air horn(one blast only please, that's what a sign said), and someone from Whitehouse Landing will shortly come across the lake in a boat and pick you up(free last time I did it)! I always enjoyed the novelty of taking a boat to a resupply point!
However, I have heard some rumblings about the "unofficial" blue blaze and signage not being OKed by the ATC higher ups and those who like to talk about such things. Shutterbug says it's been resolved.
Personally, I broke up my resupply through the 100 mile wilderness by doing exactly what I described. This meant I had to haul 2 days less food going into the 100 mile wilderness.
The Appalachian TRail Conference isn't in the enforcement business. Neither is MATC for that matter. The only agency with law enforcement powers is the National Park Service, which owns most of the trail in Maine. MATC volunteers however are supposed to report illegal activities that they see along the trail to the National Park Service.
So when the Overseer for that section noticed illegal blaze orange signs along the trail he tried to negotiate a solution that would avoid legal problems. As I understand it, WHL denied posting the signs.
When they weren't removed, MATC notified the park service ranger in Harpers Ferry, who came to Maine to investigate. Talks happened. The blaze orange disappeared. As far as I know everyone is happy now.
BTW, as has been said many times, the "wilderness" is not really wilderness. I usually call it the so called wilderness. But whatever, it is among the wildest sections of the AT -- 100 plus miles between paved roads. Unless your aim is to hike your long distance hike as easily as possible, there's some merit in ignoring White House Landing, thus avoiding that interuption to the sense of wildness that the 100 miles still provides. Logging roads or no. That what I do.
peakbagger
04-14-2011, 16:24
I am curious if the AMC camps are a current or future option for resupply. As they proudly point out in one of their PR pieces the AT used to be routed right to one of their camps.
Jack Tarlin
04-14-2011, 16:42
I doubt very much that anyone from ATC had anything to do with the Wikipedia
comment. The entry could have simply been posted by someone with a bone to pick with White House Landing.
In matters such as this (and many other matters as well), it would probably be ill-advised to give credence or respectability to a comment or statement merely because it appeared in Wikipedia, a notoriously inaccurate source. Too much material there is poorly researched, even more poorly fact-checked, too often edited and re-written, and in many cases, what appears there issimply untrue,often deliberately so.
Weary, you bring up something I want to ask and I think you are the person that can answer it. Does the National Park Service own all, most, some, of the AT? How is the entire AT designated - National Park? Can you explain?
Thanks.
I am curious if the AMC camps are a current or future option for resupply. As they proudly point out in one of their PR pieces the AT used to be routed right to one of their camps.
I'm not privy to all of AMC plans, but they seem to be seeking a different clientele than the AT hiker. Anyway, I haven't seen any evidence that AMC intends to be a resupply point.
The AT divides the AMC ownership. But their nearest facility is a mile or more away from the trail and their overnight facilities cost more than most long distance hikers in Maine are prepared to pay. or need to pay. I like to spend 10 days hiking the wilderness, exploring the trout streams, revelling in the undeveloped lakes and mountains. I see no reason to rush the walk, nor to seek additional signs of civilization. As long as my back, legs, lungs, and heart can get me through, I'll ignore both AMC and WHL.
Jim Adams
04-14-2011, 17:04
In 1990 there was only 1 little used logging road crossing in the 100 Mile Wilderness when I hiked thru but the road to Lower Jo Mary Lake must have been there because I called ahead of time and had a large pizza and 2 hoagies delivered to the campsite there.
geek
Jim Adams
04-14-2011, 17:09
BTW, when I hiked in 2002 there was a father and son who dayhiked the entire 100 Mile Wilderness to complete their "slack packing" thru hike.
geek
Weary, you bring up something I want to ask and I think you are the person that can answer it. Does the National Park Service own all, most, some, of the AT? How is the entire AT designated - National Park? Can you explain? Thanks.
The first sections of the trail in the 1930s ran through National Parks and National Forests. As I understand it, as the private trail sections began disappearing, the federal government responded to pleas from hiking organizations, and agreed to purchase the private lands that the trail traversed.
The first acquisition law was passed during the Carter Administration. The first appropriations came under President Johnson's watch. Both the park service and the US Forest Service were told to acquire the needed lands, but the park service was designated the lead agency, the agency to make sure the goals of the law were achieved.
I don't know how the present ownership breaks down. But all except a few miles of the trail are now owned by state or federal agencies. Maine has no significant National Forests, and MATC tried for years to work out deals of its own with the private landowners, without success. Therefore, most of the trail in Maine is owned by the park service. The exceptions are mostly state-owned lands, mainly the Mahoosuc ridgeline, Four Ponds area, Bigelow, and Nahmakanta.
Ownership is divided. But the trail is a unit of the National Park Service, which relies on US law and agreements with the states, for whatever "law" that exists.
In 1990 there was only 1 little used logging road crossing in the 100 Mile Wilderness when I hiked thru but the road to Lower Jo Mary Lake must have been there because I called ahead of time and had a large pizza and 2 hoagies delivered to the campsite there.
geek
Geek, you weren't too observant. All the private roads crossing the 100 miles today existed in 100 Mile Wilderness when you hiked thru in 1990. Some have been improved, some have been allowed to decay. But they are all there, then and now.
BTW, when I hiked in 2002 there was a father and son who dayhiked the entire 100 Mile Wilderness to complete their "slack packing" thru hike.
geek
100 miles is quite the day hike. Sounds like the Hopi rite of initiation into manhood! :eek:
Interesting side note, Krudmeister is planning a speed record attempt on the AZT in the next week or so. His first day is 53 miles with a day pack, and then will switch to a normal backpack in Patagonia, Az. the first on trail town (AZT goes right through this nice little town.) I wonder what is the longest mile day that any one has done on the AT? Somehow I bet it was during mosquito season. :-?
why would you need a resupply in the 100 miles anyway? that's pretty easy going by the time you've walked that far.
I thoroughly enjoyed my stay at WHL, but I believe they stopped accepting mail drops. It is a long drive for them to the P.O. You could probably find enough food in the "hikers' Grab Bag", however.
Thanks for the replies Weary and, as always, thanks for your informed input too Jack.
Some might take offense at the following statements, but I'm going to post it anyway. It's not my intention to offend anyone.
I don't reside in Maine. I don't reside in NH. I have not been born with a silver spoon stuck up my arse. I'm not independently wealthy. I'm not a member of the AMC. I admit I have a somewhat limited knowledge with respect to the AMC, but as I understand it the AMC existed before the continuous AT and the ATC. I do donate to the ATC with my finances and labor and to some of the people(clubs, etc) who maintain the AT. In my experience I've witnessed NO hostility or animosity or ill feelings to AT hikers from the AMC WHEN AT hikers have approached the AMC without a chip on their shoulders, having a case of AT thru-hiker entitlement, or general disrespect. However, I notice much hostility and downright animosity to the AMC from AT hikers towards the AMC! This seems to be coming through in some of the statements posted here.
I also get that same feeling from SOME AT hikers/people in regard to wealthy or wealthier towns like Hanover or some of the towns in CT or towards more expensive establishments that can service the AT or simply when SOME hikers find they have to pay for something or pay more then they think they should be paying. There is this attitude by SOME: "shouldn't it all be cheap or free?"
I'm not privy to all of AMC plans, but they seem to be seeking a different clientele than the AT hiker...Weary
I Do Not believe that! I just don't think The AMC gives undue privledge to AT hikers, including AT thru-hikers, which it seems many AT thru-hikers have experienced or have come to expect! In my experience the AMC treats AT hikers, including thru-hikers, LARGELY like every other hiker although WHEN THEY CAN they TRY to accommodate AT thru-hikers! That has been my personal experience. They have been very accommodating to me and many others even when suddenly arriving unexpectedly. They have fed, housed, offered discounts, provided much appreciated info, and generally been accommodating WHEN THEY COULD, most often at little or no costs to me. They have been a GREAT part of all my AT hiking and/or hiking experiences.
...their overnight facilities cost more than most long distance hikers in Maine are prepared to pay... Weary
Agreed!
...or need to pay. - Weary
I don't know how that statement can be justified when you are not privy to the costs involved with constructing, supplying, and maintaining the somewhat remote AMC huts or other AMC facilities. Propane, food, shelter facilities, generators, garbage disposal, staff personnel, helicopter services to transport building and maintenance materials, etc cost money! Perhaps, you know somethings about this that are not public info.
... I like to spend 10 days hiking the wilderness, exploring the trout streams, revelling in the undeveloped lakes and mountains. I see no reason to rush the walk, nor to seek additional signs of civilization. As long as my back, legs, lungs, and heart can get me through... Weary
A beautiful paragraph right up to this point. If you want to ignore the AMC and WHL fine. These places and organizations are not for everyone, everyone's hike, and everyone is not going to agree with their policies or how they operate. It's Your hike! I've grown weary of the ill feelings towards the AMC though!
I carried all the equipment and food I needed for the Hundred Mile so-called "Wilderness", though I did stay at Whitehouse Landing during a tropical storm's passing (at my wife's request). Who cares about resupply. If you want to think you hiked through a wilderness that is one hundred miles long, carry everything you need and refuse to sleep in shelters or camps. Since there's an established, maintained "footpath" through the area in question, it really isn't a wilderness in the strict sense of the word, but to those who wish to delude themselves into thinking they've hiked a true wilderness I say, "Keep your eyes closed or averted when you approach shelters and blue blazed trails and keep telling yourself 'This is a wilderness, this is a wilderness, this is a wilderness.'" Whatever you do, enjoy yourself! ;)
restless
04-18-2011, 20:15
Dogwood,
As a former employee of AMC, I agree with what you have stated regarding differing attitudes between AMC and thru hikers. By the time a lot of thru hikers get to the Whites, there is a definitely a feeling of entitlement that often is manifest by disrespect. However, I have personally been a victim of AMC's quest for the almighty dollar at the expense of others, as well as at the expense of sound environmental preservation. During my time with AMC in Maine, I was leading a trail crew. We were based at what is now AMC's Gorman-Chairback Camp. However, when a contingent of donors from Mass. needed a place to stay, we were the first to be asked to vacate the premises with no other options for housing provided. Also, while there, a bridge was replaced along one of the main logging roads and the construction waste was dumped in the woods. A lot of the wood from this project had creosote in it. For an organization that prides itself on conservation, I found it a tad offensive.
I'm not privy to all of AMC plans, but they seem to be seeking a different clientele than the AT hiker...Weary
I Do Not believe that! I just don't think The AMC gives undue privledge to AT hikers, including AT thru-hikers, which it seems many AT thru-hikers have experienced or have come to expect! In my experience the AMC treats AT hikers, including thru-hikers, LARGELY like every other hiker although WHEN THEY CAN they TRY to accommodate AT thru-hikers! That has been my personal experience. They have been very accommodating to me and many others even when suddenly arriving unexpectedly. They have fed, housed, offered discounts, provided much appreciated info, and generally been accommodating WHEN THEY COULD, most often at little or no costs to me. They have been a GREAT part of all my AT hiking and/or hiking experiences.
Perhaps in the Whites with the huts, the AMC does at times try to accomadate thru hikers, although not always successfully. The lodges in Maine, though, are not huts, nor are they intended to provide thru hikers a cheap alternative. If a thru hiker was willing to pay full price for lodging and meals, I'm sure AMC would be more than glad to accomadate them. I doubt, though, that any thru hiker would finds a work for stay option.
...their overnight facilities cost more than most long distance hikers in Maine are prepared to pay... Weary
Agreed!
...or need to pay. - Weary
I don't know how that statement can be justified when you are not privy to the costs involved with constructing, supplying, and maintaining the somewhat remote AMC huts or other AMC facilities. Propane, food, shelter facilities, generators, garbage disposal, staff personnel, helicopter services to transport building and maintenance materials, etc cost money! Perhaps, you know somethings about this that are not public info.
There are cheaper options for thru hikers in Maine than the AMC lodges. And most north bounders are probably running short on cash or are ready to reach Katahdin. BTW-there were no helicopters needed that I know of to build the lodges in Maine. Most of the camps were bought from prior owners and have roads leading to them.
[QUOTE=Dogwood;1147846... I like to spend 10 days hiking the wilderness, exploring the trout streams, revelling in the undeveloped lakes and mountains. I see no reason to rush the walk, nor to seek additional signs of civilization. As long as my back, legs, lungs, and heart can get me through... Weary
A beautiful paragraph right up to this point. If you want to ignore the AMC and WHL fine. These places and organizations are not for everyone, everyone's hike, and everyone is not going to agree with their policies or how they operate. It's Your hike! I've grown weary of the ill feelings towards the AMC though!
The simple fact is that the term wilderness as it applys to the 100 mile wilderness is simply used to define its supposedly remote nature in relation to paved road crossings. There are vehicular accessible roads throughout the wilderness and if one searched hard enough, you would find yourself never too far from a road of some sort. Were this a true Wilderness, as designated by Congress under the Wilderness Act, this would not be the case. Still, none of this detracts from its beauty. The 100 mile wilderness, and all of Maine for that matter, is truly awe-inspiring!
mweinstone
04-18-2011, 20:28
i got the hic ups bad.
mweinstone
04-18-2011, 20:31
ive hiked the 100 mile wilkderness way way more than anyone. in my mind. i think about it sometimes. i imagine its dark. and long. and i have to carry like alot of food. more than the smokeys cause i will want to feast on the carcass of my food bag. i imagine running out of food due to overeating and being really sorry. so then i imagine starting with tons. damm these hic ups.
berkshirebirder
04-18-2011, 20:37
How is the entire AT designated - National Park? --Dogwood
In response to Dogwood's question, I believe the Appalachian Trail is designated "National Scenic Trail."
hikerboy57
04-18-2011, 20:41
In response to Dogwood's question, I believe the Appalachian Trail is designated "National Scenic Trail."
follow this link:http://www.nps.gov/appa/parkmgmt/partners.htm
i will want to feast on the carcass of my food bag.
That's poetic. I think that was your intention?
That was what I wanted to read Hikerboy57.
Thanks.
restless
04-18-2011, 20:50
i got the hic ups bad.
boo!!!!!!!!!
WingedMonkey
04-18-2011, 20:51
Or as the ATC says:
The Appalachian Trail, completed in 1937:
Is a privately managed unit of the national park system.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805401/k.8865/About_the_Trail.htm
kayak karl
04-18-2011, 20:58
i hitched to Jo-Mary campground in '09 on jo-mary road. a logger gave me a ride. good food and got some snacks and stayed the night. the mgr drove me back to the trail in am after breakfast.
restaurant and store did not reopen in '10 and i don't know about '11.