View Full Version : The Government, what a Joke!!
wornoutboots
04-16-2011, 21:43
I just read a recent TJ where a guy was hoping to see some trail magic at New Found Gap, but.............."It was another cool night about 40 degrees but great for the Smokies at 6000 feet. I left at 7:45 and got to Newfound Gap at 9:50. I was hoping there would be trail magic here but the rules have changed. The government says that to give away food or drinks you must have a permit and have it inspected by the FDA."
Am I trippin or What, These Clowns in Office are Out OF Control!!:datz
I'm sure that's been the law for a very long time. The difference is probably that one of your fellow civilian citizens took it upon themselves to report the trail magic and have the law enforced.
restless
04-16-2011, 21:52
Why would anyone "expect" Trail Magic anywhere? If you expect it, it ain't magic. No one is owed trail magic; it just happens.
Why would anyone "expect" Trail Magic anywhere? If you expect it, it ain't magic. No one is owed trail magic; it just happens.
The belief that entitlement is a right?
wornoutboots
04-16-2011, 22:00
the point is that you cant even feed a starving child living on the streets without the MAN getting in your way.
A person that can afford to hike for half a year is in no way like a starving child.
double d
04-16-2011, 22:18
the point is that you cant even feed a starving child living on the streets without the MAN getting in your way.
Dude, whatever drugs you might take, I would stop cold turkey.
WingedMonkey
04-16-2011, 22:19
The FDA has no control over prepared foods and beverages other than food ingredients and packaging. They inspect factories and farms. They do not issue permits or inspect food on roadsides, not even on Federal land. Local or state health departments might if it is retail. Either someone is misinformed or making stuff up.
I think I'll give Wornoutboots some slack because while I 100 % agree with Restless and Leaftye's points I don't think he or the person's TJ he's referring to had a case of "entitlement" from what I can tell. He said he was hoping... I think he was simply referring to some anal inane govt law, as it was applied in this situation, by someone or some group(s), to prevent someone else from GIVING AWAY(NOT SELLING) food or drinks unless they have a permit and the FDA is involved. If this is actually a law and the law is enforceable I think it has been applied because Newfound Gap is in a National Park. I'm not sure if this would be the same case if it was not in a NP.
ChinMusic
04-16-2011, 22:45
"Hey Cuz, I've been waiting for ya. Want a burger?"
So what if several cousins show up?
I just read a recent TJ where a guy was hoping to see some trail magic at New Found Gap, but.............."It was another cool night about 40 degrees but great for the Smokies at 6000 feet. I left at 7:45 and got to Newfound Gap at 9:50. I was hoping there would be trail magic here but the rules have changed. The government says that to give away food or drinks you must have a permit and have it inspected by the FDA."
Am I trippin or What, These Clowns in Office are Out OF Control!!:datz
I believe it may be a National Park Service rule, not FDA. The trail is designed for individual hikers, not do gooders joining in organized groups to offer organized feeds.
Toolshed
04-16-2011, 23:13
More than likely a county level Public Health Ordnance. One Cannot cook or prepare food for the consumption of the general public (other than yourself) along roadways, thoroughfares and bypasses or other temporary "facilities" without proper inspection, basic food preparation training and sanitation.
It's really more common than you think. In many areas one needs a permit to start flipping burgers/dogs for public consumption.
Handing out a cold soda or snickers is likely not covered by most ordnance's. However, food that is being prepared from a raw state or not individually prepackaged usually is covered.
But I do agree. what you were hoping for was a "Roadside Feed", not "Trail Magic" and far from trail Magic.
ChinMusic
04-16-2011, 23:14
I believe it may be a National Park Service rule, not FDA. The trail is designed for individual hikers, not do gooders joining in organized groups to offer organized feeds.
Where the heck do you get the "trail is designed" thing?
I can see if it clogs a parking lot.
fredmugs
04-16-2011, 23:19
What happens to the bears when the get fed? They get shot. Leaving food or drinks unattended anywhere in GSMNP is moronic.
Real magic involves serendipity. One does not anticipate it and it isn't contrived.
Part of the problem with this "magic" business is people have corrupted the term and have no idea what it once meant and still does mean outside of the contemporary A.T. through hike experience.
Maybe we need another thread explaining the difference?
bulldog49
04-17-2011, 00:39
How else can the Govt make sure no sugary or other politcally incorrect refreshments are handed out? :-?
turtle fast
04-17-2011, 00:49
Sir, sir.... I am sorry but that Snickers bar is not government approved for you to hand out. Neither is that Dr Pepper. Please refrain from feeding the hikers. If you feed them, then they can not adapt to their natural environment and be dependent on humans for food...they will come back and expect more handouts and become dangerous problems. Sir we don't want that...thank you. (Sounds familiar)
ChinMusic
04-17-2011, 00:52
Sir, sir.... I am sorry but that Snickers bar is not government approved for you to hand out. Neither is that Dr Pepper. Please refrain from feeding the hikers. If you feed them, then they can not adapt to their natural environment and be dependent on humans for food...they will come back and expect more handouts and become dangerous problems. Sir we don't want that...thank you. (Sounds familiar)
Made me envision a hiker getting darted and waking up on the CDT........
they probably meant that you cannot just leave food unattended at trail crossing for hikers because animals might take it.
Panzer
ChinMusic
04-17-2011, 01:11
they probably meant that you cannot just leave food unattended at trail crossing for hikers because animals might take it.
Panzer
That makes perfect sense. Unattended food kills bears.
The FDA has no control over prepared foods and beverages other than food ingredients and packaging. They inspect factories and farms. They do not issue permits or inspect food on roadsides, not even on Federal land. Local or state health departments might if it is retail. Either someone is misinformed or making stuff up.
I'm going with misinformed.
Trail Magic has become hiker spam.
Where the heck do you get the "trail is designed" thing?.....
It's just an idea, picked up from 30 or 40 years working on, and helping out wth the trail. Do you think the trail just sprung up one day with no human intervention?
The trail is the product of a lot of continuing work and a lot of continuing thought and planning.
ChinMusic
04-17-2011, 10:32
It's just an idea, picked up from 30 or 40 years working on, and helping out wth the trail. Do you think the trail just sprung up one day with no human intervention?
The trail is the product of a lot of continuing work and a lot of continuing thought and planning.
Congratulations and thank you, but NONE of what you typed addresses someone doling out food in a parking lot affecting some sort of "trail design".
To say it is apples and oranges is an insult to apples and oranges.
Fiddleback
04-17-2011, 10:34
More than likely a county level Public Health Ordnance. One Cannot cook or prepare food for the consumption of the general public (other than yourself) along roadways, thoroughfares and bypasses or other temporary "facilities" without proper inspection, basic food preparation training and sanitation.
It's really more common than you think. In many areas one needs a permit to start flipping burgers/dogs for public consumption.
Handing out a cold soda or snickers is likely not covered by most ordnance's. However, food that is being prepared from a raw state or not individually prepackaged usually is covered.
But I do agree. what you were hoping for was a "Roadside Feed", not "Trail Magic" and far from trail Magic.
There ya' go... +2
I think many of those same ordnances/jurisdictions have exemptions, e.g., a wedding, large parties, etc., but those are for 'private' get togethers, not public feeds. Or so it is here in my part of the Wild West.
FB
Lion King
04-17-2011, 13:58
What happens to the bears when the get fed? They get shot. Leaving food or drinks unattended anywhere in GSMNP is moronic.
If the Rnagers would do that to trap hikers who whine about not getting trail magic that too would stop.:D
trailangelbronco
04-17-2011, 14:19
I see alot of whining on both sides.
mweinstone
04-17-2011, 14:24
I just read a recent TJ where a guy was hoping to see some trail magic at New Found Gap, but.............."It was another cool night about 40 degrees but great for the Smokies at 6000 feet. I left at 7:45 and got to Newfound Gap at 9:50. I was hoping there would be trail magic here but the rules have changed. The government says that to give away food or drinks you must have a permit and have it inspected by the FDA."
Am I trippin or What, These Clowns in Office are Out OF Control!!:datz
yes. and no. your tripping. our governments great. all rules that stink get old and stop stinkking soon enough with enough involved folks useing our magnificent arms of government to get junk done. id say, looking around me, this countrys frikkin swell. magic, no majic. signs, insultingly stupid rules,...all good. ill take two please. love my country. to death.
Two Speed
04-18-2011, 09:36
Sir, sir . . . Sounds familiar)
Made me envision a hiker getting darted and waking up on the CDT........Sounds like it'd save a bunch of gas money . . . :-?
Rockhound
04-18-2011, 10:11
This thread is a complete non-issue and will have absolutely no effect whatsoever on anybody hiking the Smokies or any part of the AT for that matter. The only people it could possibly effect are those that claim to be providing supposed "trail magic" while accepting donations or charging while they try to live vicariously through those that are actually out there hiking.
this is still a pointless rule no matter wht he wantd feed or not...
Old Hiker
04-18-2011, 13:05
yes. and no. your tripping. our governments great. all rules that stink get old and stop stinkking soon enough with enough involved folks useing our magnificent arms of government to get junk done. id say, looking around me, this countrys frikkin swell. magic, no majic. signs, insultingly stupid rules,...all good. ill take two please. love my country. to death.
I hope this isn't sarcasm, because I agree. :D
Pedaling Fool
04-18-2011, 13:11
I hope this isn't sarcasm, because I agree. :D
I second that, we got it pretty damn good:sun
mweinstone
04-18-2011, 13:16
its not possible it could be construed as sarcasm. it could only be construed as treasonis. witch i am not. i repeat, my contry and i are in love and have been married by a justice of the peace.i hold her very dear. not for a beautiful walk on appel orchard mountain or a campfire with miss janet at trail days. for my brothers and sisters who died handing her to me.
mweinstone
04-18-2011, 13:20
and if she becomes a quadrapathetic and looses all her arms of government and goes blind from bad moonshine and crack, i will download her core document into a new body and carry on.
88BlueGT
04-18-2011, 14:00
Where the heck do you get the "trail is designed" thing?
I can see if it clogs a parking lot.
The trail is designed to be whatever the hell you want it to be :rolleyes:
Congratulations and thank you, but NONE of what you typed addresses someone doling out food in a parking lot affecting some sort of "trail design".
To say it is apples and oranges is an insult to apples and oranges.
If the trail goes though a parking lot it is part of the trail. As are all road crossings. Not the wildest part of the trail, but a necessary part. Why should we not minimize the impact of a trail parking lot, just as trail designers try to minimize other impacts?
Of course, much trail magic these days is not confined to parking lots, or road crossings. Rather it happens along the trail, at stream crossings, and shelters.
BTW, the ATC maintainers bible, "Design, construction, and Maintenance" devotes two of its 220 pages to minimizing the impact of trailheads and parking.
ChinMusic
04-18-2011, 14:56
weary - The parking lot at NFG is not as it is because of the AT anymore than saying Hot Springs exists BECAUSE of the AT.
That is beyond weak.
mweinstone
04-18-2011, 15:02
weary - The parking lot at NFG is not as it is because of the AT anymore than saying Hot Springs exists BECAUSE of the AT.
That is beyond weak.
um dude? wrong o. that perticular parking lot is our only stageing area for helo resupply and construction of all shelters public and private for miles and skyles.origanily funded as a lookout, it now receives funds to maintaine safe helo runs. and, weary is trail. so he neds to be kept nice too.
Jim Adams
04-18-2011, 22:30
Made me envision a hiker getting darted and waking up on the CDT........
Now that is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:banana
geek
I think the OP should just be glad he didn't happen upon Trail Black Magic. Smoky Mountain Voodoo is crazzeeee.