View Full Version : sleeping bag temperature?
erinjoy777
04-28-2011, 21:13
Hello! After seeing a National Geographic documentary on the AT (you can watch instantly on Netflix if you have it!), my husband and I got bit by the AT bug and hope to thru-hike next year.
I'm wondering what temperature sleeping bag is best to get for a thru hike? Is there an ideal temperature that would work in summer and fall? Do people buy a cooler one and a warmer one and switch out along the trail? I haven't seen any info on this on here. Thanks!!
mweinstone
04-28-2011, 21:43
the answer to your very bright question is yes. their is a perfect temp and number of bags and place to switch out or not and its all up to you. knowing when your comfy is on you totaly. no one can help you with that in any way other than to possibly remind you hot is hot and cold is cold if you forgot. other than that theres the issue of safe. what temp is safe is the temp at witch you stay safe. now safe aint comfy. safe aint nice. safe dont care if the zipper baffel is cold or the hood has no collar. safe only has to deliver you with a beating heart to the sunrise.it dosnt have to keep you comfy or relaxed or dry or warm. safe dont have to be lightweight or easy to pack. safe dont have to be in your price range or follow any rules at all but the beating heart deliverd to the sunrise rule. so what ya got here in this world is folks who buy safe and foks who buy warm and comfy and dry and light and cost effective and yummy. buy safe and youll be sorry.
marmott helium eq coated 15 degree down from damascus north.
marmot col eq coated 20 below down from springer north starting in late feb.
this is my system.
erinjoy777
04-28-2011, 22:09
Obviously I know what hot and cold feel like. What I don't know are what sleeping bags temperatures are generally chosen for a thru hike. I'm a novice and don't appreciate being mocked. Thank you for listing the system you use, though. I do appreciate that.
bigcranky
04-28-2011, 22:15
Welcome to Whiteblaze.
Your bag is a personal decision, as Matty suggests above. A lot depends on exactly when you plan to start, and what direction you go. For example, a February 1st start in Georgia requires a different bag than a May 1st start. Some hikers can make a single 20-F bag work for the whole hike. They might be cold a few nights to start, and warm in the summer, but a bag with a full zipper can be opened up as a quilt in warm weather.
Other hikers take a winter bag to start, swap for a 40-F bag after Pearisburg, then get the warm bag mailed to them in Massachusetts. Southbound hikers might start with a 30-F bag, then swap for a winter bag in late October.
Hope this helps.
bigcranky
04-28-2011, 22:16
Matty is not mocking you. If you stick around you may learn to appreciate his posts. He's a good guy, but sometimes a little hard to understand.
started in late March with a 15 degree bag plus a silk liner. This was more than sufficient - rarely had to fully zip it up (but every year can be different). Switched to a 40 degree bag in Buena Vista Va., along with the liner. sent that home in HF (?) and just carried a lightweight fleece blanket with the liner until Bennington, Vt. Got my 40 degree bag back there. Good luck and invest in good quality bags..you'll be glad you did. and I'm not a real gear junkie either.
mweinstone
04-29-2011, 01:38
yes i was mocking! i can mock!
okay i wasnt.
and i dont know how or when to mock.
and im even sorry if you thaught i was.
but i wasnt.
i never do.
im the one that gets the mockings around here buster.
i shall be mocked!
dammit!
dam it?
damit
no
dammit.
mweinstone
04-29-2011, 01:41
i wanna be a heckler. i wanna sell my heckelings to big money. ill heckel whoever im paid to. i wanna be a mercenary heckler. i wander if i can start out small. like heckeling buisnessmens suit choices. and move up to bears. man . if i could heckel live bears on tv i could make enough to thruhike.
mweinstone
04-29-2011, 01:44
it was the opening sentance? omg! that was a real homebaked compliment. your question was well put. sorry.
88BlueGT
04-29-2011, 09:04
^ lmao @ mweinstone, love the good laughs in the AM!
Marmot Helium FTW! until it gets too hot, than you can swap out for a summer bag. If you plan on leaving in March-April, spring for the 15* bag. Don't let the sunshine in GA fool you, it still snows on the AT in April down south.
erinjoy777
04-29-2011, 09:07
Sorry mweinstone! Things get lost in translation sometimes. Thank you all for your suggestions. It sounds like I need to get two sleeping bags. I was hoping not to have to do that for money reasons because for us that will be FOUR sleeping bags to buy, but as you said mweinstone, safety needs to come first.
It's a 40 degree down bag. When it's cold I add a fleece zipper bag that cost 10 bucks at wal-mart. It weighs less than a pound and I use it for a head rest in warm weather. The combination of the 2 works well for me on a cold night.
88BlueGT
04-29-2011, 10:31
^^ Like posted above, there are options, you can use a use a 30* bag w/ a liner. You could always layer up if its THAT cold out. Also, w/ a 30* bag you may be OK in the summer sleeping on top of it with a light liner to wrap yourself in, or sleeping inside of it with the bag unzipped.
As well, don't forget you can buy used gear! It's always a cheaper route. Plus, theres tons of gear junkies here who are willing to let go of our 'old', perfectly good gear for great prices.
Feral Bill
04-29-2011, 10:35
Obviously I know what hot and cold feel like. What I don't know are what sleeping bags temperatures are generally chosen for a thru hike. I'm a novice and don't appreciate being mocked. Thank you for listing the system you use, though. I do appreciate that.
Matty's one of the "characters" here. Don't take it personally.
mweinstone
04-29-2011, 10:52
remember not to look down your nose at 40 dollar walmart bags. they go up to 80 dollars and although they are big and heavy, they are perfectly within normal ranges for all but the gram weni. or weinstoney , of with i am a superfreak and must have the best. but i got friends with more sence than me who use them and they are the best way to move cash from the equiptment side of the ledger to the food and fun side.
You can save some weight and create more temperature flexibility with venting by using a top quilt, but they generally cost a few bucks. If you are handy, you could make your own.
Snowleopard
04-29-2011, 11:22
It can be cold in the southern mountains if you start early and in the northern mountains all year. Some people start or end in winter, then it gets quite cold and you'll need a warmer sleeping bag (i.e., 0F or warmer). Some people sleep warmer than others. If it were me starting in April, I'd carry a 20F bag (I have one already). Don't forget you'll need to carry some warm clothes and you can wear them inside your sleeping bag when its cold (but don't expect to use a 40F bag at 10F comfortably). http://trailjournals.com/
At the whiteblaze home page http://www.whiteblaze.net/index.php, on the left, you'll see a panel labeled articles. There's lots of good info there.
For example, SGT ROCK's "Cheap Gear – How to Dirt Bag and Deal Shop Like a Professional", http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=206678#post206678
and, the series, "What to Carry" under packing lists: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=132311#post132311
If you can sew at all or have someone who will do some sewing you could make sleeping quilts and save a lot of money. Kits are available at:
http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Quilt-Kit/index.htm
or, you can just buy materials and start sewing.
You may enjoy reading trail journals that hikers post at http://trailjournals.com/
peakbagger
04-29-2011, 11:56
ITs a tough call as some through hikers start in January and some start in May and the weather can change. Some folks are cold sleepers and some warm. Most bag ratings assume you are in a tent. Sleeping in shelter with typically raised floors tends to be colder so a bag with an extra 10 degrees is usually recomended for people who are planning for shelters.
Whatever you do try to get in a long term hike this year to see what you are getting into. Shoot for a minimum of a week and plan to carry what you think you will need, you can read every post on whiteblaze, it doesnt match what you will learn over a couple of days on the trail.
88BlueGT
04-29-2011, 12:01
I thought bags were supposed to be rated under exposed conditions, without clothing? Or am I completely wrong?
The ratings are certainly survival ratings, not comfort ratings. And quite a few companies have been accused of being overly optimistic as well.
88BlueGT
04-29-2011, 13:07
^ +1 thats definitely something to keep in mind. Many bags are overrated. The Marmot Helium however, as I have heard from many people, is about 5-7* UNDERrated. I have taken mine down to about 25* with complete comfort.
erinjoy777
04-29-2011, 22:26
^^ Like posted above, there are options, you can use a use a 30* bag w/ a liner. You could always layer up if its THAT cold out. Also, w/ a 30* bag you may be OK in the summer sleeping on top of it with a light liner to wrap yourself in, or sleeping inside of it with the bag unzipped.
As well, don't forget you can buy used gear! It's always a cheaper route. Plus, theres tons of gear junkies here who are willing to let go of our 'old', perfectly good gear for great prices.
[/QUOTE]I only have one real bag
It's a 40 degree down bag. When it's cold I add a fleece zipper bag that cost 10 bucks at wal-mart. It weighs less than a pound and I use it for a head rest in warm weather. The combination of the 2 works well for me on a cold night.[/QUOTE]
I really like both of these suggestions. I have a couple of quilts but I don't think they would be warm enough. I have absolutely no gear at this time, so I'm trying to make the best choices possible. I know that we need to go on a hike this summer to try out gear, but I'm afraid that I'll buy gear, take it on the "test" hike, won't like it, and won't be able to take it back! So I kind of feel caught between a rock and a hard place. :-/
My wife and I began our AT thru on March 3 (2009) and competed our hike on September 23.
We did well with 15 degree Montbell bags beginning and ending. During the summer we used 40 degree Montbell bags and were happy with those.
I know that we need to go on a hike this summer to try out gear, but I'm afraid that I'll buy gear, take it on the "test" hike, won't like it, and won't be able to take it back! So I kind of feel caught between a rock and a hard place. :-/[/QUOTE]
find and visit a good outfitter or REI. Make sure that they have someone on staff who has done some significant number of AT miles (assuming that is your goal). If they don't, leave and go to another (some of the so-called "outfitters" have very inexperienced sales people). talk to them about your concerns, they should fit you and give you the best chance at getting gear that you really like.Rei has a 100% satisfaction guarantee meaning that you can return stuff if you are not happy with it for any reason. Maybe your local outfitter will as well. make sure you ask.Note that the best gear can be found used here, on ebay, etc. but it will not be deeply discounted if it's in good shape. If you buy used and don't like it you're stuck with it or forced to resell.
Also, the search feature is on this site is a wonderful resource so if you are spending sleepless nights agonizing over the MSR vs. Sierra Designs tent, chances are you can find what others have said on this very topic.;)
One other comment, summer is a fine time to test out most of your gear except for a sleeping bag (and of course the winter clothing), you may want to consider cold weather hikes this winter as well.good luck!
I only have one real bag
It's a 40 degree down bag. When it's cold I add a fleece zipper bag that cost 10 bucks at wal-mart. It weighs less than a pound and I use it for a head rest in warm weather. The combination of the 2 works well for me on a cold night.[/QUOTE]
I really like both of these suggestions. I have a couple of quilts but I don't think they would be warm enough. I have absolutely no gear at this time, so I'm trying to make the best choices possible. I know that we need to go on a hike this summer to try out gear, but I'm afraid that I'll buy gear, take it on the "test" hike, won't like it, and won't be able to take it back! So I kind of feel caught between a rock and a hard place. :-/[/QUOTE]
By top-quilt, I mean a down or synthetic top-quilt made for backpacking. Think of a sleeping bag with no back. The "ground" side of a regular sleeping bag is useless for insulation, as your body compresses it. One example of a top quilt is http://warbonnetoutdoors.com/topquilt.php, but there are plenty of others.
erinjoy777
04-29-2011, 23:21
Oh! Haha see, I told you I was a novice! Thanks for the link.
One bag will not be optimal, but certainly can work, especially since you are doing it X2 people. My .02 is that you can always cool off with a bag, but if it is too cold for your bag, you are going to be cold and uncomfortable. Cold at night sucks.
If I were doing it, and only wanted one bag, I would go for a 20 degree 800 fp bag, full zip, from one of the top makers. This can be opened up quilt style for warm temps, and isn't too heavy to carry all trip.
More important, if you want one bag, is fit for each one of you. Get to a good outfitter and get in some bags, note the exact dimensions, or models, then find the exact dimensions for that particular bag. That will make internet shopping much easier, if you don't buy that particular bag. If you buy a high end bag, you want it to fit just right.
The other choice I would think for two bags, is lower end 650 fp down bag for beginning and end, and some low cost synthetic warm weather bag for the middle. Depends if you want to swap out, cost, etc.
Good luck.
88BlueGT
05-02-2011, 16:14
I know how you feel about not wanting to buy gear and than have to replace it. The very first trip I went on I went out and spent HUNDREEEEEEDS of dollars. By the time I got back, and one week to dwell, I swapped out almost everything I purchased except for the ruck (that lasted another 4-5 uses, still not a bad pack though). So yea, certainly do your homework so you don't end up doing THAT ^^.
There are some pretty fail proof choices when it comes to packs, bags & tents. Even though everyone is different and has different preferences, if you choose something that 90% of the people like, and noone has problems or complains about, chances are, you will like it too. And if you don't, than its most likely more of a preference issue than a durability or function issue.
mateozzz
05-02-2011, 17:56
A 20 degree bag will probably be a 40 degree bag after you have slept in it for 3 months...unless you wash it while in town.
fredmugs
05-03-2011, 06:53
Sorry mweinstone! Things get lost in translation sometimes.
If you can translate him you're one step ahead of the rest of us. :)
Old Hiker
05-03-2011, 07:23
...........safe only has to deliver you with a beating heart to the sunrise.......................follow any rules at all but the beating heart deliverd to the sunrise rule.
But the Aztecs followed the "beating heart to the sunrise" rule as well, but it didn't work out so well for SOME of them.
http://www.aztec-history.com/images/mendoza-aztec-sacrifice.jpg
Keep an eye out on SteepandCheap.com - got a 0* bag that was less than 3 pounds for about $80 and seems to be well made and warm. I was worried about it, but it got me down to about 30* here in FL and I was very comfortable in shorts. I've seen 20* bags for less than $60 as well, but you have to catch them at the right time.
I have a Wally-World fleece blanket I use with a military poncho liner down to about 45-50* +/-, wearing a pair of shorts and a DRY t-shirt.
SteepandCheap.com is a good place for cheap Alps tents, both solo and duo.
Go with 15 or 20 degree rating starting mid March in GA.
Water takes the temperature of the air around it, so try to keep them dry. A 3-season bag, kept dry with a good tent and pad, would be fine at 30F. A 4-season, with appropriately heavier tent and pad, would be OK at 0F, assuming youre not in Alaska or somewhere like that. A 25$ Dick Sporting Goods synthetic bag, depending on your starting time/spot, would be fine.
Also, when somebody starts to mock you, you'll know it.
LIhikers
05-25-2011, 01:47
[/QUOTE].........I'm afraid that I'll buy gear, take it on the "test" hike, won't like it, and won't be able to take it back! So I kind of feel caught between a rock and a hard place. :-/[/QUOTE]
Find an outfitter that rents gear and start going out on overnighters in all kinds of weather. That's one way to find out what you like, and what you don't.
Lots of good suggestions here. I'm just getting back into camping, and doing some hiking... upgrading and getting modern stuff :)
My past experience though was that is easier to cool off with a bag that is warm, than to warm up when your cold.... I've always been a warm sleeping and do not like putting on extra clothes etc... to sleep. A liner can add 5 to 10 degrees of comfort to a bag. Old rule of thumb use to be have a bag rated at least 10* colder than you expect the temps to be to stay comfortable...
Also I think I read some where recently (been doing a lot of reading) that major manufacturers have or are going to a standardized rating system.
The two things that will make the biggest difference in your hike are your sleeping bag/pad and your footwear.
Getting a good nights sleep can make or break you. There is nothing worse than shivering in your tent for hours waiting for the sun to come up, so you can start hiking just to stay warm. It kills your spirit the next day.
You can get a good warm bag for not much money, or you can get a good light warm bag for a lot more. This is one area that going cheap can really hurt. Also your sleeping pad choice is just as important. Even a great bag will not keep you warm if you pad is not up to the task for the temp. An uninsulated air pad or 1/4 inch CCF is asking to be cold.
I always carry a bag that is rated about 10 degrees lower than the weather I expect. Sometimes I am cold, sometimes It's overkill, but I am rarely miserable. Even in Florida in the winter I carried a 15 degree bag. But everyone is different. Only you will know what works for you.
I was talking to a hiker not too long ago that was bragging about his pack weight (ultralight) and how he only paid like $50 for his sleeping bag. Then he told me that he had to hike a couple of long days to get to a hotel to spend the night because it was so cold out :)
Hiking is work. It can be fun too, but not if you cut corners with a sleeping bag in cold weather.
Some basics that may or may not have been said:
The Down VS Synthetic argument is all over this site. (go synthetic)
A 3-season bag would be fine at ~30.
A winter bag should be at least 10, and probably lower.
The bag doesn't make warmth, it keeps it in. You still need to generate the heat.
A good pad is just as important.
Get a mummy bag if you sleep on your back/stomach. If you sleep on your sides, try to find a rectangle bag.
You can always mail stuff home, so I would suggest starting with a warm bag, then switching out for a lighter one. However, resist the urge to get rid of your warm bag too early, the mountains can be cold in May. Also, don't go to a 'space blanket' type, which will simply hold too much moisture, and make you wet, and frozen.
I've been using a 35 degree ems synthetic bag and a sea to summit liner on all of my current thru hike, and the combo has been great. WHatever bag you decide on, buy a liner as well. They help keep your bag cleaner and gives you a more versitile setup
booney_1
07-09-2011, 15:40
1. Choice of pad is very important for sleeping warm...spend some serious time checking them out.
2. Tips on long term camping with respect to sleeping...
a.) Use a liner-keeps bag drier and cleaner (sorry bag will still stink)
b.) In the morning-when you get out open and spread out your bag to dry. If it's sunny hang it up. (you brought a clothes line right??)
c.) Air out your bag at night when you get to camp.
You'd be surprised at how much moisture a bag can absorb at night. Not only will a bag be heavier, but also cooler.
3.) sleeping tips- Change your clothes before bed. Don't wear your base layer to bed. It' will have absorbed a lot of moisture during the day. When starting your thru, you are really winter camping. So you need fleece top/bottom.
On cold nights you can wear these in your sleeping bag (as long as you did not hike in them.) I grew up in upstate NY and often camped with the boy scouts in sub-zero weather. I had some sears insulated underwear (think quilted-top and bottom) that really extended the range of my sleeping bag. At the very least, I'd bring a fleece hoodie. (of course you have a knit cap to also sleep in)
4.) There will be a point somewhere North of Damascus where you want to switch bags out. Check out Campmor, or even Dick Sports. They make some pretty cheap. light synthetic bags.
My best advice for a thru hike next year is for you to do some late fall trips (or even sleep in your backyard) when it's cold. You'll find your own personal comfort level. I know REI rents bags. Even among experienced people there is a wide range of opinion regarding sleeping comfortably, and what temp bag is required. I think everybody would agree that it's not the place to cut ounces in the begining. Nothing will fatigue and demoralize you more than being cold at night.
One more tip!!!....It helps alot to bring a grocery bag or big zip lock to put your hiking shoes/boots in. Either put them in the bottom of the bag, or outside the bag, but tucked underneath one side. My personal pet peeve about cold weather camping is putting your warm feet into solid frozen hiking boots!! It's hard enough to leave the warm bag in the morning.....
littledragon
07-09-2011, 18:06
If you are considering a liner, think about a silk one. it will add about 15 degrees of warmth and is very lightweight. I have made good use of mine in the late fall and early spring.
seabrookhiker
07-19-2011, 21:38
I took a 30 degree bag and a liner that claimed to add more than it really did for a mid-March start in 2010 and I froze my tuckus off. But I survived.
Were I to do it again, I would start with a 15 degree bag and switch to something less insulating later on, like Pearisburg. I wouldn't switch to fleece, because most fleece weighs more than a down quilt. IMO any bag that will keep you warm enough at either end of the hike is way too warm to live with in the middle.
Trailbender
07-21-2011, 18:38
If you are considering a liner, think about a silk one. it will add about 15 degrees of warmth and is very lightweight. I have made good use of mine in the late fall and early spring.
Better to just have a thermal layer, it serves the same function, and you use it for warmth as well. I'd rather put the 10-12 oz of a sleeping bag liner into some thermasilks and polypros.
Better to just have a thermal layer, it serves the same function, and you use it for warmth as well. I'd rather put the 10-12 oz of a sleeping bag liner into some thermasilks and polypros.
I agree with that one!
For a March 3rd started I used a 0 degree bag until Pearisburg VA and then switched to my 40 degree bag after. Some say the 0 degree was overkill but there were definitely some nights when I was glad that I had it. 40 degree bag was perfect the rest of the way. Got chilly a few nights but not enough to be an issue.
carry a 30 degree bag/blanket.
add down jacket once it starts getting cold.
No need to buy 2 sleeping bags. They're expensive and the LAST thing you want to try saving money on.
http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist_dual.htm
You could even buy one blanket for the two of you to use
If you're worried about accuracy of ratings buy sleeping bags that are sold in Europe. The ratings are regulated.
nothing beats just trying to sleep in a bag even on your porch,most hikers have a slew of stuff they tried
MommaDuck
08-28-2011, 10:11
I'm starting NOBO the beginning of March and plan on using my 20* bag the entire hike. I also have a silk liner and other insulated clothing to wear in addition for colder nights. Likewise, during the warmer nights, I plan on using my bag as a quilt or use the liner as my bag. We'll see how that works out. So far so good.
^^
you'll roast in the summer
Just Plain Bill
08-28-2011, 11:38
Whatever works for you, do that. If you find it doesn't work for you any longer, stop doing it. Know that what's working for you the first 2 weeks, isn't likely to be working for you the first two weeks of July. Don't be pigheaded. If you make a mistake, and you will, change up.
This is another good reason not to sink too much money into gear. When sleeping your comfort is most important, whether that's needing to be warm or cool. But the only way to figure this out in the context of a long distance hike is to ... hike a long distance. Unless you've already done a long distance hike, it's not possible to know what's going to work for you. Take what seems like good advice, but know that it's mostly (educated) guesswork.
Don't spend buckets of money because you'll feel worse if you make a mistake and have to change up a little.
And have fun!
MommaDuck
08-28-2011, 13:06
Also have a 50* bag that I could use during the warmer months. Just trying to eliminate the need to ship gear.
have it boxed and ready once you pass Mt. Rogers and into mid-may.
caffeine
08-29-2011, 02:44
It's very helpful to me. And Matty's post. Makes me think of having my lighter pack shipped to me mid hike from PA when the weather changes. Thanks, I'm not a novice, but not a sage or wise woman or shaman....yet.
caffeine
08-29-2011, 02:47
selling your heckle would make them into shekles. Ba dum bum.
Tom Murphy
08-29-2011, 11:03
you can read every post on whiteblaze, it doesnt match what you will learn over a couple of days on the trail.
+1
speaking truth to the power, amen brother
you can read every post on whiteblaze, it doesnt match what you will learn over a couple of days on the trail.
Depends on who you listen to. Advice from folks such as Baltimore Jack, Nean, Lone Wolf, Fiddlehead, Sly, etc. is worth it's weight in gold. Advice from folks who have done two weekends trips and are thinking about planning a thru-hike is not really useful. Unfortunately only about 0.5% of the advice is good, and there's little to no way to tell who is who if you're not already dialed into the long distance hiking community. My advice? I like to think that it's worth its weight in paper clips.
i started March 4th and hiked the entire trail with a 20 degree WM bag, 1.5 lbs. When it was hot i just left it wide open and kind of slept on it not in it. When it was cold i slept in long johns, socks, shirt, etc. This worked fine for me... you dont need to carry a bag liner.
i started March 4th and hiked the entire trail with a 20 degree WM bag, 1.5 lbs. When it was hot i just left it wide open and kind of slept on it not in it. When it was cold i slept in long johns, socks, shirt, etc. This worked fine for me... you dont need to carry a bag liner.
In such a case, a 30 or perhaps even 40-degree bag might do for an April 15 start? and without a liner?