View Full Version : Are we nuts?
RITBlake
01-26-2005, 02:23
Due to uncontrollable constraints, my hiking partner and I are going to have to leave for our Thru on June 1st. We are determined to do it north bound and have no interest in doing it SOBO. We are both in good shape (he plays hoops, I play rugby) and we have gone on several 10+ day section hikes to work out the kinks. Now my question is, are we nuts for leaving June 1st? Neither one of us has a big interest in the social scene, but we also don't want to be going so fast that I have to blow by every vista, historical site, etc....
What do you guys think? We would have exactly four full months to reach Maine by October 1st and we have met several thru-hikers who say it is def. possible to summit big K after oct 15th.
Opinions? Advice
Pencil Pusher
01-26-2005, 05:38
Yes you are nuts and on an impossible quest. Stop such lunacy now and send me all your money for this trip via Paypal. Then you will be much happier knowing I'm laughing all the way to the bank, than attempting such a crazy feat. June 1st, hah! Impossible, could never be done, not in a million years nor by three fornicating lepper monkeys. Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick, you'd only have four and a half months... I-N-S-A-N-I-T-Y!
Nope.
Huh-uh.
Ain't gonna happen.
Paypal, por favor.
:eek:
:datz
. We are determined to do it north bound and have no interest in doing it SOBO.
Opinions? Advice
No, you are not nuts, but, why is there no interest in a SOBO hike? It's the same trail, just a different direction and a more difficult start. All that is required of you is changing your journal name.
Remember, it's gonna be hot as hell the first three months when you're trying to grind out 20 miles days over & over. You can do it, but I wouldn't want to.
YES! u r Nuts! :D
but, then again....anyone planning on hiking 2,174.1miles is just totally WACKY!IMHO
wish i could be out there with you!
just start/end your hike at Harper's Ferry and take your time (WV->ME, GA->WV)
TJ aka Teej
01-26-2005, 08:06
...we have met several thru-hikers who say it is def. possible to summit big K after oct 15th.
"Possible", but do not plan on being able to do so. If your projected arrival at Baxter Park is later than October 1st, I strongly suggest flipping ahead to Katahdin. Be flexible, don't get stuck in a hurry-up-gotta-get-there hike. The Rangers at Baxter are seeing a huge increase in Flippers, hikers who hopped up from Front Royal and are heading back southbound, people who skipped ahead to Monson or Caratunk or Gorham from New York or even Harpers Ferry. Think about a bookend flip flop hike if you are under time restraints: Springer nobo to somewhere, Katahdin southbound to somewhere, and if you end up needing to fill in the middle next year so be it. Just remember to have fun!
The Solemates
01-26-2005, 10:56
Dont listen to these guys. You can certainly do it in four months. We did it in 5 months and felt we had a somewhat leisurely pace. We started in the winter (Feb 1), when it got dark at 4:00pm. You guys will have 4 extra hours of hiking time during the day than we had. Just try to get in a couple miles after supper.
Four months will take a considerable amount of concentration and focus. For instance, you will not be able to stop in town for many zero days. A typical town day may consist of waking up before sunrise, hiking 10 miles and making it to town by noon. Do laundry, get resupplied, get something to eat, and head back out around supper. Hike a mile or two and camp just outside the town. This can still be a restful stop, but you will not have time to lay around in a bed or spend the night in town. Boy Wonder this year did the trail in 3.5 months. Im sure Chris will have something to say about this as well.
With that said, if I was hiking the trail again, I would not plan on doing it in four months. I wouldnt want to rush the experience. When we got to Katahdin on our thru, we wanted to keep going. Sincerely, we did not want it to end and thought hard about leaving the trail for home.
Dont listen to these guys. You can certainly do it in four months. Boy Wonder this year did the trail in 3.5 months. Im sure Chris will have something to say about this as well.
With that said, if I was hiking the trail again, I would not plan on doing it in four months. I wouldnt want to rush the experience. When we got to Katahdin on our thru, we wanted to keep going. Sincerely, we did not want it to end and thought hard about leaving the trail for home.
Yes, you can certainly get it done. You have plenty of time as long as you don't spend most of your day sitting in a shelter "smelling roses." You'll need to cover around 20 miles in a full hiking day, so that on resupply days and days off you'll be averaging what you need to. Consider not taking many zero days, but do take plenty of half days off. You can cover 20 miles by 2, reach a town, and then sit around for the rest of the day. Or, put in 10 by 10 and then come in.
Remeber, you won't be able to spend all day sitting at a shelter doing nothing. You will have to hike, which means that you will need to be in good shape before you start, and you will want to carry a light load.
Send a PM or post a new thread if you have further questions. I'd be glad to help.
Now my question is, are we nuts for leaving June 1st? Neither one of us has a big interest in the social scene, but we also don't want to be going so fast that I have to blow by every vista, historical site, etc.... Yes, you're nuts.
Will your trip be fun? Could be.
Magical? Probably not.
Not into the social scene?? Then, why are you hiking? (to get somewhere, of course!)
Maybe everyone needs to live life like they're in the rat race before they learn to relax and flow with life. I did my rat race in the working world and used a long hike in the woods to change my perspective and live life now, with ease, rather than always trying to get somewhere in not enough time.
I'm still in that transition and it pains me to see people not taking the opportunity to 'smell the roses' when they give themselves the chance. It's a beautiful experience (thru hiking), take the time to experience all it has to offer.
My advice is to go SOBO or, if NOBO is a must, do what Hog On Ice suggested. Either way, take your time. It will be worth it.
Moose2001
01-26-2005, 11:59
Can you do the trail in 4 months? Sure. Would I want to? Not a chance. But that's my hike and your hike may be different. My only advice is this. Hiking the AT should be a wonderful experience and a trip of a lifetime. If it starts to become something else for you, more like drudgery, then I would say you need to reassess your plans. If you can do the trip in 4 months and enjoy it, and people do, then go for it. Just don't be afraid to alter the plan if need be.
Have Fun!
Footslogger
01-26-2005, 11:59
Nuts may be a tad extreme but you have boxed yourself into somewhat of a corner. Given the constraints you basically have 2 choices:
Hike NOBO but know up front that you will not have time for zero days or overnights in town. Your re-suppy visits will have to be in-and-out again events. You will have to average around 14 - 15 miles/day.
...OR
As other have suggested, reverse your plans and hike SOBO. A June departure will allow for a December arrival at Springer and a much more enjoyable (leisurely) but less social hike.
'Slogger
AT 2003
The Solemates
01-26-2005, 12:25
You will have to average around 14 - 15 miles/day.
'Slogger
AT 2003
We averaged this and we did it in 5 months. To do it in 4 months you will have to average 20mpd.
Footslogger
01-26-2005, 12:34
We averaged this and we did it in 5 months. To do it in 4 months you will have to average 20mpd.===========================
Curious ...how many zero's or nero's did you take. The straight forward math works out to 17+ miles per day in 4 months, so I was a little low in that first estimate. The key thing though is that even at 17 - 18 mpd there would be little if any opportunity for down time during the hike.
'Slogger
AT 2003
I forgot to mention that when I after I break the 12 mile mark during the day, I put on a blind fold, put my fingers in my ears, plug up my nose, and take special pills to simulate fatigue. This is the only way that I can hike past this mark and fulfill the dire predictions of those who prefer to smell the roses. I have noticed that the flower smellers spend a lot of time in towns or shelters. Also, the rose nosers seem to sleep in rather late, and miss the most beautiful part of the day: The early morning light. Moreover, they stop hiking early and so miss out on the second most beautiful part of the day: The early evening light. There are only a few shelters that are actually pretty in the late light. Of course, you won't get to socialize with a lot of people, but then again, if you want to socialize, go to a bar or join a support group or something.
I liked Moose2001's response, but it is pretty rare, as some of the posts show. Unfortunately, many of the posts represent a dominant opinion on the AT. There is a tacit nod to the concept of HYOH, but few people really believe in it. The idea that: "You can do what you want, but I know the right way, and if you don't do it, you are missing out on something and are not going to enjoy yourself." Oh, and never mention that you intend to blue blaze or, perish the thought, yellow blaze or aqua blaze.
Footslogger
01-26-2005, 13:15
[QUOTE=chris]I liked Moose2001's response, but it is pretty rare, as some of the posts show. Unfortunately, many of the posts represent a dominant opinion on the AT. QUOTE]
======================================
Not sure if my post represented a "dominant opinion". I'm all about HYOH ...but in the end it's the math that gets you as the time alotted for the hike decreases.
'Slogger
AT 2003
The Solemates
01-26-2005, 13:34
===========================
Curious ...how many zero's or nero's did you take. The straight forward math works out to 17+ miles per day in 4 months, so I was a little low in that first estimate. The key thing though is that even at 17 - 18 mpd there would be little if any opportunity for down time during the hike.
'Slogger
AT 2003
Just to clear up the math...
2,174.1/120 (4 months) = 18.12mpd
2,174.1/150 (5 months) = 14.49mpd
We took 10 zero days on our trip of 153 days, so not counting those, our average was:
2,174.1/143 = 15.20mpd
We took probably 5-8 neros, so our "hiking" pace was actually a little more, but who cares.
Likewise, if you take 10 zeroes and are on a 4 month pace:
2,174.1/110 = 19.76mpd
So obviously to increase the pace, you either have to go in to town less or hike more during the days.
Yes I'd say definately GO for it! My hike took 5 months to the day, but that included 11 days at home for wedding/sickness and 6 zero days on the AT in trail towns. If I didn't take any of those days off the hike would be 4.5 months, which is what you are trying to do. I don't regret the way I hiked (I had an AMAZING time) but yes I certainly could have hiked it in that time or less. It may not have been as fun though......as most of my buddies were traveling at closer to a 5 month pace.
I look at the 4-4.5 month pace in two ways that differ from my 5 month pace.
One, you could start out quicker. I was averaging a measly 11+ miles a day when I hit Damascus, 40 days into the hike. I had taken days of 4 miles, 4 miles, 6 miles and many 7,8 and 10's. BUT i was having a ball and meeting tons of interesting folks. At that point to finish in 4-4.5 months I would have to have been hiking 22-25 mile days EVERY DAY, instead of 16-22 mile days every day. To me thats a good difference.
Of course the other way would have been to make up the 2 weeks difference by getting to Damascus in about a month, which would have had me doing more 15-20 mile days in the first month. I'd probably be on this pace were I to hike the AT again. Then I could simply hike from Virginia to Katahdin at the same pace, about 16-22 mile days, as most other thru-hikers are doing.
As stated, you'll have heat against you and water issues for the first 3 months which COULD be very unpleasant, but depends how you function in that type of climate. It could certainly be a tough way to transistion into the hike.
If you do decide to try (and I think you should) just be in good shape and have a relatively light pack. You've got tons of daylight to cover miles, no need to run the trail.
I'm your age, was about 10-15 lbs overweight when I started and had a 40 lb pack. It's very very doable.
tlbj6142
01-26-2005, 13:42
I forgot to mention that when I after I break the 12 mile mark during the day, I put on a blind fold, put my fingers in my ears, plug up my nose, and take special pills to simulate fatigue. This is the only way that I can hike past this mark and fulfill the dire predictions of those who prefer to smell the roses. You forgot about taking your shoes off and walking on glass during lunch break.
Of course, you won't get to socialize with a lot of people, but then again, if you want to socialize, go to a bar or join a support group or something. Even at a dreadful 20+ mpd you will still have plenty of time to talk and be social. Now you might not learn that someones 2nd cousin lives in the same state as you, but honestly, do you even care?
There is a tacit nod to the concept of HYOH, but few people really believe in it. The idea that: "You can do what you want, but I know the right way, and if you don't do it, you are missing out on something and are not going to enjoy yourself."Why does this happen only on the AT? I never read about this stuff on the PCT. What is it about the AT that breeds this strange form of peer pressure?
I just read Moose's post and he makes a great deal of sense (as usual). If you feel it turning into a march, slow down. Maybe hike a half or two thirds this yr and finish it another summer. You're both young and the trail ain't going anywhere. You could always flip SOBo, or you can finish after OCT 15th, they don't put a fence around Baxter park.
Whistler
01-26-2005, 13:56
RITBlake, I'm in somewhat the same position. I'm heading NOBO on May 20, but looking at finishing a bit sooner. Go for it. Keep in mind that you're young, and this probably won't be the Last Greatest Thing You'll Ever Get to Do in Life.
Footslogger says "in the end it's the math that gets you as the time alotted for the hike decreases." Do your own math based on your own test-hikes and your own priorities. Then stay in shape and get your packweight to a level that makes your goals feasible.
Let's say you hike at 2mph [net] from 6a-12noon, maybe take a nap and scratch yourself for 2 hours in the shade and out of the hot sun, then hike until 6p at the same pace. You could cover 20 miles a day and still have a couple hours for dinner, sunset, and a nice 10-11 hours of sleep. That's not too bad, but maybe not your style... Fiddle with the numbers and see what works for you. Maybe you'd rather hike more efficiently for a shorter period. What is your style? Figure it out, and stick to it. And if it changes, stick to that.
Etc.
-Mark
[changed math to reflect a 24hr day, not a 25er]
What is it about the AT that breeds this strange form of peer pressure?
It might have something to do with a patch, a certificate, the annual listing in the ATN, and peoples egos.
It's just a trail, but some people think it is much more than that.
When it is all said and done, all you are left with is your memories. That's why you should ignore the peer pressure and hike the trail the way you want to.
dontstop
01-26-2005, 14:38
I didn't summit Kahtadin until October 20th. You may have to wait a bit if you are late but they don't "close down the mountain." I understand not being into the social scene but I think you will find it a large part of the experience. You will get into trail shape soon enough and you can do it in that amount of time. I would just be worried you won't have enough time to do much but hike and will miss a lot. Ever thought about section hiking? Just do what you can this year and don't worry so much about Kahtadin. Finish another time. The mountain isn't going anywhere.
Good luck!
Don't Stop
GA-ME 03
Due to uncontrollable constraints, my hiking partner and I are going to have to leave for our Thru on June 1st. We are determined to do it north bound and have no interest in doing it SOBO. We are both in good shape (he plays hoops, I play rugby) and we have gone on several 10+ day section hikes to work out the kinks. Now my question is, are we nuts for leaving June 1st? Neither one of us has a big interest in the social scene, but we also don't want to be going so fast that I have to blow by every vista, historical site, etc....
What do you guys think? We would have exactly four full months to reach Maine by October 1st and we have met several thru-hikers who say it is def. possible to summit big K after oct 15th.
Opinions? Advice
I am thinking that hiking with a 4.5 month deadline would be tougher with a partner than without.
Of course, Warren Doyle's expeditions might prove the contrary. There is something to be said for partner's support. The Soulmates probably have better wisdom on that.
Rick B
PS:
I didn't find hiking a 4.5 month pace all that difficult (good health and just one zero day), but (for me) the idea of keeping to a self-imposed schedule (snow fears) was by far and away the worst aspect of my hike. Hiking 15- 20 miles a day is far easier than feeling a NEED to. For me, that feeling sucked. Which gets back to my point about hiking with a partner-- you would have to be a strong team to handle situations where one partner needs to stop (blisters/stomach ache/grumpy) when the other is hell bent on making miles.
To me, walking through the woods most of the day for about 4 months doesn't seem like being trapped in a rat-race at all!
Whether you like to walk at a 2 mph pace or a 3+mph pace, or whether you like to take long breaks or short breaks, you still see what you see, hear what you hear, smell what you smell and experience the trail. It's not like you're zooming by in a car! Your pace is your choice...a four month trip is very do-able, and the people I know who've done it at that pace or quicker have all enjoyed their adventures and have had no regrets.
As an aside...on my hike, several people tried to tell me that I HAD to stop here or HAD to go there in order to have a "true" thru-hiking experience (all of these "must-dos" were off the trail). Your experience doesn't need to be dictated by someone else's desires or conceptions about how you should hike. Walk the trail how you want to do it, and I believe your experience WILL be magical as a result!
Have a great trip!
UCONNMike
01-26-2005, 15:11
I don't understand how anyone could say that it isn't a good idea to leave June 1st. I fwe only avg 15 miles a day we can finish in 20 weeks, which is somewhere in the second week of october. However, Blake and I are no slugs, I see it being no problem for us to be avg 18 miles a day putting the finish to the 3rd week in september. I know it's not good to make these kind of schedules, but i dont see a problem in our plans. Hikers are constantly pushing the limits of time on the AT, and 3 - 4 months is not eactally setting records. We are young, in great shape, experienced, focused, and have researched to the point of exhaustion. I appreciate those who believe in us and support us, and to those who think we can't do it, you'll be eating humble pie come the end of september.
gravityman
01-26-2005, 15:17
I don't understand how anyone could say that it isn't a good idea to leave June 1st. I fwe only avg 15 miles a day we can finish in 20 weeks, which is somewhere in the second week of october. However, Blake and I are no slugs, I see it being no problem for us to be avg 18 miles a day putting the finish to the 3rd week in september. I know it's not good to make these kind of schedules, but i dont see a problem in our plans. Hikers are constantly pushing the limits of time on the AT, and 3 - 4 months is not eactally setting records. We are young, in great shape, experienced, focused, and have researched to the point of exhaustion. I appreciate those who believe in us and support us, and to those who think we can't do it, you'll be eating humble pie come the end of september.
Whenever I see these kind of posts, I think "I wonder how that person really did." A few times I have been able to follow, and every time I have, they didn't make it. But then again, only 20% make it, so that's not a surprise.
Come back and drag up this thread when you are done and tell us how it was! Only through experience will others be able to be advised.
If you want to do it this way, then do it. I personally would go sobo if I had to start in June because I HATE time pressure and don't want that on the hike. I have enough pressure in my life.
Gravity
Footslogger
01-26-2005, 15:30
I personally would go sobo if I had to start in June because I HATE time pressure and don't want that on the hike. I have enough pressure in my life.Gravity================================
For me the crux of this thread is the time pressure ...and I gotta side with Gravity. Can it be done ...sure. And if that's the only way you'r gonna get to thru-hike the AT then go for it. But I for one found myself at Katahdin in 2003 wishing that the whole thing hadn't gone so fast ...and I'm one of the hikers that took 6 months. Guess it's a personal choice but if I get the chance at another AT thru-hike (and the wife and I are talking about it) I think we're gonna shoot for a 7 month window.
'Slogger
AT 2003
UCONNMike
01-26-2005, 15:33
I dont understand how hiking north on june 1st would add any pressure. While we are into the trail life, we are doing this to hike, not to hang around in trail towns for days on end, or do 10 miles a day. I respect anyone who has completed the AT, if they did it doing 10 miles a day thats great, but that isnt what we are about, we feel that not only can we complete the AT in what many are calling a pressure packed schedule, but will have the chance to enjoy the parts we want. Also, going SOBO to mean is horribly anti-climactic, we'll go north and finish, and believe me, I will make sure to revisit this post and make a note of our accomplishment. I always value the opinions of other WB memembers, but to say that someone is going about their hike wrong, or that they shoudlnt do it that way, or they wont make it, is everything that this site shouldnt be about. "Hiek your own hike," and encourage each other, I know i would never tell someone that they shouldnt do their thru-hike a certain way, because everyone does it differently, and we are here to help each other and lend advice based on past experience, this is a community of AT enthusiasts, so be supportive.
officerab
01-26-2005, 15:39
I believe that if you plan to do this hike just for the sake of doing it, then you are not the type of hiker that should be on the trail at the time you have selected. Poor planning on your part is screaming.
I sugggest you rethink your plannings. To hike the trail, a once in a lifetime event possibly, plan so that you can stop and smell the roses, as they say. If you don't do that, whats the point.
I think you should consider postponing maby a year or so.
tlbj6142
01-26-2005, 15:52
It might have something to do with a patch, a certificate, the annual listing in the ATN, and peoples egos.I often wonder if it is also a "lowest common denominator" sort of thing. So many folks begin the trail, many without any backpacking experience. As such, intially they are only able to 9mpd, sleep in shelters, need others to help, etc. They become the "party" crowd, or the "popular" crowd. As such they define what is "HYOH" and was is "you stupid feak you'll end up with bloody stumps for feet and never 'see' anything".
Whereas on the PCT, fewer hikers start, most have experience, no shelters which "force" folks to live together and become more affected by peer pressure, and the first part of the trail dictates a bit more pace than what you can "get away with" on the AT.
You are probably right though, egos and the patch play a big role. Even if folks don't apply for it, it is still hanging over their head.
I wonder how many of the HYOH-as-long-as-you-do-it-like-me crowd outlook's change at the end the trip? IOW, is this something that only affects folks thru the first half of the trail? Does the "strict" crowd even finish?
Why does this happen only on the AT? I never read about this stuff on the PCT. What is it about the AT that breeds this strange form of peer pressure?
It does happen on the PCT, but it much more muted. I am guilty of this also, which is one of the reasons why I spot it quickly now. I passed Team France about four times in SoCal, and they never passed me. They would simply tire of some area and hitch up to a prettier one. Or, it would be too hot, so they would hitch up to the next town. I did make some jokes at their expense.
However, their is more of a HYOH ethic, I think, on the PCT. Part of it has to do with the higher experience level of the hikers: Many (most) have some AT experience, and many a thruhike under their belts already. Part of it is due to the lessened social scene, although reports from this year have the social thing increasing exponentially (and I understand my year was much higher than 2002, etc). Without shelters, people congregate less in the evenings, even if their is something of a jamup coming out of the KOP. Also, it is impossible to walk every step of the PCT. In at least one area, the trail is just a route: Nothing to follow but cairns in the distance. In the Sierra, the snow and river conditions dictate going in odd directions at times.
So, while the PCT has much less of what I found disturbing on the AT, it is still there, and it will probably increase as time goes on.
I appreciate those who believe in us and support us, and to those who think we can't do it, you'll be eating humble pie come the end of september.
I don't know that many people said you couldn't do it. You certainly can. Have fun, and be sure to eat a slice of that pie before you start.
The Solemates
01-26-2005, 16:12
I am thinking that hiking with a 4.5 month deadline would be tougher with a partner than without.
Of course, Warren Doyle's expeditions might prove the contrary. There is something to be said for partner's support. The Soulmates probably have better wisdom on that.
Rick B
PS:
I didn't find hiking a 4.5 month pace all that difficult (good health and just one zero day), but (for me) the idea of keeping to a self-imposed schedule (snow fears) was by far and away the worst aspect of my hike. Hiking 15- 20 miles a day is far easier than feeling a NEED to. For me, that feeling sucked. Which gets back to my point about hiking with a partner-- you would have to be a strong team to handle situations where one partner needs to stop (blisters/stomach ache/grumpy) when the other is hell bent on making miles.
My wife and I have a really good relationship and we are both VERY VERY strong willed, so much so that it often gets in the way in life. We are very stubborn. We have never gotten into an argument that lasted more than a few hours. We have been together over 6 years, married over 1 year. We trained for the AT, planned for it years in advance, and are both very athletic. I work out in some form 7 days a week, and did so before the AT even more heavily than I do now. We lift weights together, run triathalons together, trail run together, and play sports together.
There were only two instances along the AT when we were tested, and those only minor squabbles. Both of them were when one of us was sick. I got a bronchial infection during blizzard-like conditions near Erwin and was sick for a week. We kept hiking, only less mileage, about 10mpd. My wife was very supportive. She got sick, a minor ulcer in her stomach, in VT and was hospitalized, causing us to take 2 forced zero days. I wasnt quite as supportive (at least in my mind and maybe she would agree), but I calmed down and realized it wasnt the end of the world.
The bottom line is how well do you know your partner? If you are going to hike with someone else, I believe that a guy-girl couple is the strongest relationship to have while on the trail. I know personally that if I didnt care for my wife as much as I do, we could have easily departed several times. I would not feel this way if I was hiking with another guy. I would just go off and leave him if something went wrong. Often when this happens along the AT, the guy that gets left leaves the trail for good and the guy that did the leaving feels guilty and alone the rest of the way, and may eventually quit because of this.
Going South is not anticlimatic. But thats for another thread :-).
You asked about feeling presure-- since I felt way too much, I'll respond.
First off, averages don't tell much. Adults have drowned in pools with an average depth of 3 feet-- simply because they happened to be in the deep end.
If you figure you need an average of 18 mile days, consider how that translates to the Trail. What do you do when there is a shelter after only 16 miles, and not another for 23? Do you stop? What if its raining?
For me that's where the pressure was. Feeling compelled to move forward when I didn't want to. Or, feeling crappy because I was falling behind. That was just me, but I suspect to one degree or another all hikers have similar feelings. Factor in a partner, and it gets more complicated.
Suggesting that something won't be easy isn't lack of encouragement, though.
Rick B
Whistler
01-26-2005, 16:20
[QUOTE=officerab]
I sugggest you rethink your plannings. To hike the trail, a once in a lifetime event possibly, plan so that you can stop and smell the roses, as they say. If you don't do that, whats the point.
[QUOTE]
The point is that not everyone likes roses. It's quite possible that RITBlake desires an experience quite different from the one you are seeking.
-Mark
The point is that not everyone likes roses. It's quite possible that RITBlake desires an experience quite different from the one you are seeking.
-Mark
I met a guy hiking SOBO in the mid 90s. He night hiked the entire way. He wasn't interested in views, photos or wildlife. He just wanted to get in the best shape of his life.
I guess that's why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors.
flyfisher
01-26-2005, 16:33
If I wanted to start on June 1 and I wanted to start at Springer I would. Sounds like you want to. Bravo.
I personally would have a few tricks up my sleeve, like a consideration of flip-flopping from Harper's Ferry. If the trail was a little slower, or I had needed some healing time somewhere south, then the flip-flop would give me a chance to finish.
Which ever of the two options I used, I would avoid the Maine black fly season - a big plus in my books.
The vast majority of thru hikers who finish a pure NOBO route start earlier, but that does not mean that you can not be successful. There were a couple fast (25-30 miles a day) hikers that began about 15 May last year that finished , I believe.
"He night hiked the entire way"
Now that's the kind of tall tale we have to pin on L. Wolf to get him that that legendary status.
Since people clearly will believe anything, I am sure we can make something up which is equally creative.
[QUOTE=UCONNMike] Also, going SOBO to me is horribly anti-climactic, we'll go north... QUOTE]
I'm glad it wan't anti-climactic to me! I quietly brushed the snow from the plaque, breathed in the crisp, clear air, and let that unassuming mountain give me a gentle hug. I'll always cherish that moment. A perfect ending for a wonderful journey :)
Enjoy your hike...whichever direction and whatever pace is the right one for you!
UCONNMike
01-26-2005, 18:44
thanks Whistler, thats exactly how i feel, you hit it on the head, it all goes back to the "hike your on hike" slogan.
and in responce to officerab whihc his - "I believe that if you plan to do this hike just for the sake of doing it, then you are not the type of hiker that should be on the trail at the time you have selected."
maybe you should think before you post, why else would i hike the AT other than to hike it?, you make no sense, I love the outdoors and I have been hiking since i can remember, the AT is one of the greatest long distance challanges in the world, I'm not hiking to have fun, because pushing your body to its physical and mental limits isnt especially fun, it hard work and takes a great deal of dedication and focus. The appeal of leaving in April and hiking for 6 or more months isnt appealing to me, I want to get out there, put on foot in front of the other and not let anything distract me til i reach katadyn. So think before you type, its easy to hide behind a computer, and at your age you should know better.
I'll say it again, thanks for all the postive feedback on this thread, those who have experience in hiking the AT, I value your comments and take each one in consideration. and to those who continue to be negative, oh well...you missed the point of the trail community
ps, i didnt mean to discount going SOBO, it just isnt for me, if you complete the trail its a great accomplishment no matter whihc way you travel. :)
thanks Whistler, thats exactly how i feel, you hit it on the head, it all goes back to the "hike your on hike" slogan.Seems the HYOH-apostles forgot to read the original post which asked for:
Opinions? AdviceYou asked for it, you got some, and now you're defensive 'cause it didn't match what you wanted to hear. Maybe you should think before you post.
If you and RITBlake wanted support, well ask for it! But you asked for opinions; and as soon as you and others on this thread read feedback you didn't like, you go off screaming HYOH! HYOH! HYOH! :mad:
I guess I've missed the point of the trail community, as you say. So what would the point be? Never give honest feedback when one asks for it? Denial is a river in Maine? :confused:
UCONNMike
01-26-2005, 20:42
no i ask for advice from those who have doen it, not from people who haven't thru hiked, those are the people i have a problem with, i can take the negative feedback from those how did the AT like yourself, but those who havent doen it, I dont need to hear them say we can't do it (ie Officerab) those who havent done it are the ones i have a problem with their negativity, they need to understand the sense of community, you have it Dharma, I'd hiek with you anyday, and go to a pub and have a beer after and pick your brian for AT info, i value your opinion. i dont value those who havent been there, thats the bone i have to pick, and i appologize for not making that clear.
Jack Tarlin
01-26-2005, 20:55
It's unfortunate that the tone of this discussion has taken a turn for the worse. These guys asked legitimate questions, and I think some folks are being a little rough on them.
My own two cents: Of course you can do the Trail in 4 months, tho I sure wouldn't try to do it in any LESS time, and if at all possible, try to add a few extra weeks. I know of several folks who've done the trail in less than 4 months, but in all honesty, I can only think of a handful who genuinely seemed to enjoy it. So please, try to give yourself at least 20 weeks, and one or two more would be even better. Incidentally, I see that you're planning to finish on or about 1 October; be aware that the first week of October is usually wonderful weather-wise, but that the chance of bad weather increases dramatically after the 8th to the 10th, and that while it is technically possible to finish a thru-hike after the 15th, the logistics are a pain in the ass (by this I mean dealing with the complicated but entirely necessary Park regulations involving post 15-October arrival at Baxter); plus the odds of running into rough weather go up dramatically the later it gets in October.
As others have pointed out, you will have a very different trip from most folks, and will miss out on most of the "social" aspects" of the trip: You will have to severely limit your town time and time off, and force yourselves to be very disicplined about this; there will undoubtedly be times when you're going to want to slow down or take time off but can't due to the constraints of your schedule. And you'll miss out on hiker events, get-togethers, etc. There will also be lots of fine people that you'll meet, but only see once or twice as you'll be travelling significantly faster than most folks.
A few words of advice: There are ways to make maximum use of your "limited" time. First off, get in the habit of getting on the Trail as early as possible, for any number of reasons. For one thing, the earlier your start, the better the chance of your achieving your daily mileage quota more easily....it's a drag hiking til dark, arriving at a nice campsite that you can't appreciate because it's night, and then setting up, cooking dinner, and falling immediately into exhausted sleep. If you leave early in the mornings, you'll be able to get your miles in, and still arrive at your days-end destination with enough time to enjoy it and to get a good night's rest.
Also, pay attention to your bodies. On the Trail, little problems tend to turn into bigger ones, so pay extra attention to your feet, your knees, etc. Keep an eye on your gear and clothing, and fix it or replace things BEFORE they become real problems. Drink more water---nearly all hikers are dehydrated all the time, even tho they don't realize it, and this contributes to aches, pains, and general fatigue, which you can't afford at your pace. And don't be afraid to take time off when you think you need it, even if it's time off that you hadn't planned. Keep some flexibility in your schedule.....if you wanna take a few unplanned zero days somewhere, well do it. You can make the time up later. If you arrive at a beautiful stream or pond and want to take three hours off to swim or laze the afternnon away, well do it; you should be able to make the time up later. Remember that most folks make this journey but once, so get the most of it. Yes, you're on a rigid schedule that you WILL have to be fairly religious about respecting, but don't let it dominate your trip to the point that your pace and schedule become an overwhelming influence.
Instead, if you limit your town time; if you're willing to start hiking early and hike all day; if you study the maps and elevation profiles so you'll know when to go for a really big-mile day and likewise, when it'd be foolish to; if you pick your gear wisely and judiciously; if you study the guidebooks well so you'll know how to most efficiently re-supply; if you're willing to hike all day even in horrible weather; if you're willing to forego a lot of the cameraderie and socialization that most people enjoy while thru-hiking.....well, if you're willing to do all this, and if you stay healthy, then the good news is that I think you're perfectly capable of thru-hiking in 4 months. (And if, after awhile, it turns out that the pace you've set is simply too much, or if it's preventing you from truly enjoying the trip, then keep an open mind about altering it, even if it means not doing the whole Trail in one journey. The key thing, assuming you finish, and I have little doubt you will, is that in future tyears, you want to look back on your trip as a series of memories to be cherished, and not as some sort of horrible ordeal, that you forced yourself to endure because you were too stubborn to quit).
So stay healthy, stay positive, stay flexible. I think you'll be fine.
UCONNMike,
Thanks for being candid. Yes, that makes your responses clearer to me. I do think you can have the hike you want. My initial post was a caution to not have expectations of a 'typical' thru hike when you have to do a lot of miles per day and only a few days off. But I think you are well aware of that now.
Maybe I'll have that beer with you when you come through CT/MA.
Boys-
What you want to do is very possible; in fact hikers do it every year.
That said, I think the most important aspect of what Baltimore alluded to was the part about listening to your bodies.
It seems many strong, fit, buff, capable young men drop out early every year because they go 'balls out' and get hurt. Even if you are athletic, thru-hiking is very very different on the body than say playing an organized sport. I don't mean this to sound negative, I've just seen it happen before.
Even if you are capable of going from Springer to Neels Gap in a day-and-a-half, doesn't mean that is necessarily the best idea to begin with. Give your bodies some time to adjust to the pounding your feet and knees will take everyday. Another good idea would be to read up on proper care for blisters. You'd be amazed at how debilitating they can be, and sometimes slapping duct tape over them isn't the best idea....maybe that should be another thread. (And don't think you're immune to them)
Also, don't believe the nonsense people spew about Virginia being flat. It's not, some of the hiking may be easier, but it is by no means a cake walk. If you do start a little slower don't think you can make up mondo miles in Virginia because it is flat.
UCONNMike
01-26-2005, 21:21
most def, Dharma, and maybe you can slack pack me a bit throught CT/MA ;)
hey, and I'm looking for a partner to do the Metacomet Trail in CT, its like 52 miles, could bang it out in 3 days easy. the terrian isnt that bad. And it all ties into my training which began today.
Graet advice Mr. Jack Tarlin, that has really put me at ease, and given me that much more confidence.
orangebug
01-26-2005, 22:26
It is interesting the title of the thread is "Are we nuts?"
The idea of thru-hiking qualifies as nuts, as "the Crazy One" noted. Why get upset when you have offered the opportunity for others to offer an affirmative response? You have only decided that you wish to be nuts in an abreviated time allotment, regardless of any opinion you solicited.
RITBlake
01-27-2005, 00:48
wooohhh...lots of chat in this thread while I was at school today. Thanks to everybody for your advice. Whether you were a 'go for it' or a 'rethink it' or 'go sobo' post I apppreciate and respect everybodys opinion. Theres a lot to think about in the months to come. I think what I learned from this thread was:
1. HYOH appears to be a touchy subject
2. For us to triumph we must take advantage of the long summer days, hike early, hike long.
3. Avoid getting bogged down in trail towns
4. Drink lots of water and pay attention to the body
5. Don't try to pull off big miles right away.
saimyoji
01-27-2005, 01:01
I firmly believe that "You can accomplish anything you put your mind to." ( Back to the Future)
Despite the fact you dissed my beer preferences, I'm rootin' for ya. Screw the naysayers: want it, plan it, DO IT.
(Sorry, I know you said no non-thrus, but I had to chime in with encouragement) ;)
UCONNMike
01-27-2005, 01:46
I can never say no to well wishes :)
officerab
01-27-2005, 03:14
As quoted "What do you guys think?" was the question. We have told you what we think, and from many viewpoints. So ultimately you are the one that makes your own decision. and for every action there will be a reaction. Enjoy your hike. I wish you well.
"Whether you were a 'go for it' or a 'rethink it' or 'go sobo' "
And then there were the ever poplular "Cool!, but stay flexible in case your hike doesn't evolve exactly according to your current vision" posts.
I am a big fan of the wisdom in "Jim Owen's Thru Hiking Papers". They have been around a while. I wopuldn't be surprised if reading them a couple dozen times ;-) might really improve one's odds of having a wonderful thru hiking experience.
This is the link. His papers are in sections, but I think some of the pages are only linked from the main table of contents. Part 7 speak sof partners, for example, and you can't get there from the bottom of page 6.
http://trailwise.circumtech.com/thruhikingpapers/
Moose2001
01-27-2005, 10:21
in consideration. and to those who continue to be negative, oh well...you missed the point of the trail community
UCONNMIKE - actually, I think it may be you that missed the point of the trail community. You asked for advice and you got a lot of it, both positive and negative. Many of us said yes you can do it. Others said no, don't try. The point of all of this is those of us who have hiked understand the difficulty of what you're going to attempt. We understand what it's like to get up every day at dawn and hike all day. We understand what the physical and mental impact is of having no zero days. We understand what it's like to want to sit and have a beer with your Buds but instead have to leave town and push on. When you asked for advice, you got feedback on all of those issues and how it will impact your hike. THAT IS THE POINT OF THE TRAIL COMMUNITY. Those of us that have hiked were trying to help you in your planning. So take the advice you got in that fashion and not as a negative.
I would also ask you and RITBLAKE to do one thing. This type of question comes up every year. Next year, be active on this board and provide others with direct feedback on this type of hike. That is also the POINT OF THE TRAIL COMMUNITY, give something back to the trail and help others with thier hikes.
Have a great hike and enjoy every single day.
Moose
bulldog49
01-27-2005, 11:25
Reminds of of my wife. She asks my opinion about something that I could care less about, give it to her and then she starts arguing with me about it. I say, well you asked me for my opinion, I gave it to you and you can accept it or reject it, but don't debate me about it.
foggy-bottom
01-27-2005, 22:29
Good Luck :banana :banana :banana :banana
officerab
01-29-2005, 14:33
Here is s statement by a previous hiker. You deceide.
*I REALLY wish I'd taken more zero days in the middle of nowhere, even if
it meant taking longer to do a particular stretch or carrying extra food.
There are so many places I either breezed right thru or spent only a
short time at, instead of stopping for long enough to enjoy them.
*Along those lines, I wish I had the discipline to COMPLETELY throw out
my daily schedules more often; I wish that at more of the places where
I said "It's only 11, it's too early to stop" that I'd either stopped for
awhile, or even stopped for the day. Remember, most folks only do the
Trail ONCE....most of the places you see, you'll never see again. Stop
and enjoy them. When the trip is over, there are a great many folks
who regret that they travelled too quickly, and wish they'd spent more
time on breaks, enjoying a view or a beautiful campsite or whatever.
I've met very few who've felt that they should have gone faster, or
wish that they'd finished sooner.
Jack Tarlin
01-29-2005, 16:47
Officerab:
I agree with everything that "previous" writer said. After all, I wrote it. It comes from an old post of mine on a thread called "What I'd Do Differently" or something like that.
And I agree with it, which is why I suggested that if at all possible, these guys should try to extend their schedules, even if only by a few weeks. I think their trip will immeasurably benefit.
But I wasn't asked if people SHOULD thru-hike in four months; these guys were wondering if the COULD, and this is a very different thing.
I know I wouldn't want to hike that fast and far every day, nor would I want near-constant time pressure. Neither would most folks. I'm also not sure I'm still capable of hiking like that---I'm probably not---but that's another story.
I think tho, that if these guys know what is required of them, and are willing to do what is necessary in order to maintain their set schedule, then there's no real reason they can't have a great trip. They're also much younger and fitter than I was when I started long-distance hiking: There actually are folks who can regularly and happily hike 3-4 miles an hour all day long, and are willing to do big miles every day. If you cut your town time, start early in the morning, watch your pack weight, and are willing to hike in all kinds of weather, then going 20-odd miles a day is not totally unrealistic; in fact, for some folks, it's not unrealistic at all. After all, many hikers take something like 30-odd zero or off days in the course of a thru-hike. For folks whose main interest is in the woods and mountains, and are less interested in the town, hostel, or social aspects of thru-hiking, then it isn't necessary or required to take the usual six months for a thru-hike.
Different people are capable of different things, and obviously, everyone has their own expectations and hope for their hike. Therefore, even if I did indeed previously advise folks to slow down and smell the wildflowers, and even tho I personally wouldn't want a schedule like this one, I still don't see a contradiction in saying that a four-month schedule, while unusual, is certainly not out of the question.
For the right folks, four to four and a half months could work out just fine.
rocket04
01-29-2005, 19:05
I'll chime in since I did something close to that during my thru-hike in '04. I started April 9th and finished August 23rd, so pretty much 4.5 months. This included starting out doing 6-10 mile days for about a week, and a total of about 20 zero days (10 of them consecutive in Washington DC; 4 of them for injury/sickness). This also included a number of short days in or out of town, as well as much shorter days in the Whites and Maine. I wouldn't say I had any problems stopping to "smell the roses" given that in some parts of the trail I could put in 20 miles by 1-2pm no problem. Which doesn't mean I always did that, but it gives an idea that I could take long breaks, chat with people, and still get in 20 miles. As far as the social experience go, I don't think I missed out on too much. I was at Trail Days. I did Hardcore. I met tons of people and had plenty of time to talk to them in shelters. I didn't stick with the same group much, but instead hiked for short periods of time with different people. So all in all, I think that as long as you're disciplined and in good shape, your goal is achievable and you can do it without really missing anything (granted, your late start date will make you miss things like Trail Days).
A few things you can keep in mind. The average miles "thing: is misleading. Although I probably averaged around 17 miles per day overall, when I was actually hiking, I was closer to 20. Also, I wasn't consistent in sticking to a certain average at all. If there was something I wanted to do/see, I might hike 2 miles. But there were days I felt good and didn't feel like there was tons I cared to stop for, so I did 30+ miles. For the Whites, I did mostly 10 mile days or less because it was so beautiful. In Maine, at the end in the Wilderness, I did some 8-9 mile days to have plenty of time to enjoy it.
Most important part, bottomline: don't make yourself miserable, have a good time. And a good time is a very relative thing. For some people, it's stopping on every mountain top for 2 hours. For some, it's zeroing in every cool town. For others, it's pushing their body to the limit. I guess good time may not be the right term, fulfillment is probably a better word. If you feel fulfilled as you're hiking (as I did), even if it's tough, you're probably doing something right. Best of luck!
RITBlake
01-30-2005, 00:06
Mike and I have decided to modify our plans. We had a long talk our plans and our objectives. We agreed that while we wanted to make good time, we also didn't want to miss out on a single adventure the AT might offer due to time pressure.
My dad logic'd it out for me like this; If we we're 1800 miles in to the hike and somebody got hurt with an injury that takes a month to heal, we would be SOL. If someone gets sick for a week or two, that would only add to the pressure of finishing on time. And when I'm coming off being sick, the last thing I want to do is hike 20+ miles. So the point is, although I think we could physically accomplish the 4-month hike, it would be rough to come so close and not reach K.
So the new plan; The AT site has a list of alternate itineraries, we've selected the 'head start' We're going to start in HF, WV on June 1st and hike north. Then flip back to HF and hike south to Springer. This will allow us to hike through the north w/ some cooler temps and no pressure to reach Big K. Then we get to hike south w/ autumn through some of the most beautiful spots on the trail.
It was difficult to abandon the original plan after spending so much time/energy wondering if we could do it, then convincing ourselves that we could, but I think we made the wise choice.
Thanks to all that helped, see you on the trail!
Congrats for making a plan! I think this idea is way better and you have tons more flexibility. You can still hike at the same pace if you decide that works for you both, but you certainly now don't need to feel the rush of october and Katahdin. Another advantage is that you'll be starting with some of the easiest terrain so you can start to put away miles early on, or simply you'll have an easier time getting your body adjusted (compared to georgia or maine).
It'll be interested starting in the main pack of hikers as well, folks who already know each other and have been trail tested for 2-3 months. You'll probably have a good amount of folks passing you at first but it won't take too long to get into the groove. And lastly it'll be sweet to hit the south in cooler temps and maybe have some fall foliage. All and all a good sounding plan to me.
Moose2001
01-30-2005, 11:31
I'll echo ATrain's comments. I'll repeat what I said earlier...it's your hike, do it the way you want to. I think you'll enjoy this trip much more than you would of trying to do it in 4 months. Less pressure and more time to enjoy the trip.
We hiked with two women in 2003 who did the exact same thing you're planning...BMonk and SureStep. Both had a wonderful time. They fit right into the established groups that were on the trail. My partner and I had to skip back to VA after summiting Katahdin to finish up 300 miles. We ran into them in Northern VA going South from Harpers Ferry. They told us it was so different hiking South. So, you'll get to experience two distinctly different hiking styles. You'll go North with the "crowd" and have a very social experience. Then you'll go South and have a much more laid back experience. It sounds like fun to me.
In any case, enjoy your trip and have fun! Most people only get to do this once in thier life. Enjoy it to the fullest.
gravityman
01-31-2005, 16:04
Mike and I have decided to modify our plans. *snip*
Good job listening and adjusting! You showed the first quality that I think will allow you to make it the full 2200 miles - flexibility! It's sometimes tough to give up how you view a thruhike *should* be, and to go the way that is the path of least pain. Very smart. There will be plenty of things that make the journey difficult. It at all possible, chose the things that you can change to make it somewhat easier!
And as was mentioned, there is no reason you can't still try for the 4 month hike. But I think you will find the lack of time pressure will make that pace seem more normal as opposed to forced!
Gravity