View Full Version : CDC Confirms Lemon Eucalyptus Oil as Effective as DEET
mcskinney
05-14-2011, 22:49
Interesting. Link below.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2011/05/cdc-confirms-lemon-eucalyptus-oil-as-effective-as-deet.php?campaign=th_rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+treehuggersite+%28Treehugger% 29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
Wise Old Owl
05-14-2011, 22:55
Unfortunatly - not everything on the internet is true, and because Canadian Mosquito's don't care for the American CDC. They also now that Oil of lemon eucalyptus is a call to dinner..... you as a blood meal!
Repel is awful in backwoods conditions.
I use REPEL lemon eucalyptus insect repellant for the flying biting nasties. I have had good to excellent results with this product. But results can vary among individuals. I thought I remember reading a study and someone posted a link to the study here on WB that lemon eucalyptus WAS NOT as effective as DEET? Don't recall who did the study or how it was conducted though.
I've also had, along with 3 of my PCT hiking buddies, very good flying biting insect deterent results with the Don't Bite Me transdermal patches that last up to 36 hrs. They operate on the principle of masking the chemical scents of carbon dioxide in your breath and produced through your skin which skeeters and some flying biting insects are attracted to using the vitamin B1 as a masking agent and aloe as an anti-inflammatory in case you are bitten.
When in skeeter or black fly ville I'll often carry some incense sticks or cones as to light as I'msetting up my cowboy camp. It helps some!
Full length complete nanoseeum jumpsuits work too
subliminal
05-14-2011, 23:43
Um, read the article more carefully.
I only skimmed it, and I picked up the part that you missed.
They didn't say it "is" as effective as DEET. They said it "can be" as effective.
May not seem like a big difference, but when dealing with government agencies the devil is in the details....
After reading that article, I'll be sticking with DEET. 100% DEET. It works, and I hate mosquitoes enough to accept the health risks. Hell, mosquitoes themselves carry things that scare me more than DEET.
WingedMonkey
05-14-2011, 23:53
After reading that article, I'll be sticking with DEET. 100% DEET. It works, and I hate mosquitoes enough to accept the health risks. Hell, mosquitoes themselves carry things that scare me more than DEET.
Acording to CDC 100 % DEET is overkill.
Higher concentrations of DEET may have a longer repellent effect, however, concentrations over
50% provide no added protection.
http://www.cdc.gov/malaria/toolkit/DEET.pdf
meh, i still push for a good gin and tonic, or vodka and tonic, or anything and tonic, keeps the blood sucking beast away:banana
subliminal
05-15-2011, 00:11
Acording to CDC
I might have been a bit too subtle in my indication of how little faith I have in any information from government agencies.
If it's ok with everyone, I'll go ahead and use what my own experience has taught me, and continue ignoring the lousy information that the CDC puts out...
Interesting. Link below.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2011/05/cdc-confirms-lemon-eucalyptus-oil-as-effective-as-deet.php?campaign=th_rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+treehuggersite+%28Treehugger% 29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
The article has this quote:
Oil of lemon eucalyptus [active ingredient: p-menthane 3,8-diol (PMD)], a plant- based repellent, is also registered with EPA. In two recent scientific publications, when oil of lemon eucalyptus was tested against mosquitoes found in the US it provided protection similar to repellents with low concentrations of DEET
Who the hell uses low concentrations of DEET?
Let me translate:
"Lemon eucalyptus is a piss poor substitute for DEET."
Leanthree
05-15-2011, 00:31
I wish that that CDC article would actually link to the scientific studies.
Who the hell uses low concentrations of DEET?- Leaftye
UM, me! My perspective is: why slather myself in more of something if a lesser amount or lower concentration of that substance produces the same desired result?
They didn't say it "is" as effective as DEET. They said it "can be" as effective. - Subliminal
I caught that too.
Jonnycat
05-15-2011, 00:54
treehugger.com
lol, no.
I'll stick to my 33.3% DEET 3M Ultrathon thankyouverymuch.
WingedMonkey
05-15-2011, 01:35
I might have been a bit too subtle in my indication of how little faith I have in any information from government agencies.
If it's ok with everyone, I'll go ahead and use what my own experience has taught me, and continue ignoring the lousy information that the CDC puts out...
I live in a part of the country where we receive regular updates on West Nile Virus and St Louis encephalitis in the local news. And sometimes even Malaria. During extreme conditions the county uses aerial spraying of most of the populated area.
The local health department has sentential chicken flocks they test regularly and they also test a sample of the horse population. We have a large polo and show horse community.
I will put some trust in government agencies, this is one area in which I think we have to. I trust science. The CDC in my opinion is an agency mostly free of political hype, no matter who is in administration.
And oh Gaiter, I've tried the vodka, doesn't stop them but you don't know how bad until the next day ;)
Pedaling Fool
05-15-2011, 09:37
I live in a part of the country where we receive regular updates on West Nile Virus and St Louis encephalitis in the local news. And sometimes even Malaria. During extreme conditions the county uses aerial spraying of most of the populated area.
The local health department has sentential chicken flocks they test regularly and they also test a sample of the horse population. We have a large polo and show horse community.
I will put some trust in government agencies, this is one area in which I think we have to. I trust science. The CDC in my opinion is an agency mostly free of political hype, no matter who is in administration.
And oh Gaiter, I've tried the vodka, doesn't stop them but you don't know how bad until the next day ;)
I agree, it's like the military; there are a lot of very professional non-political people that work for the CDC and they're there regardless of who is in the office.
I don't know how well lemon eucalyptus oil works, but I've talked to some people that have been in some areas where the mosquitoes were so bad that even deet was useless, so there's no silver bullet here. Maybe lemon eucalyptus oil has a use in some areas, but deet is better in other areas. And then you have those areas where nothing seems to work.
Beachcomber
05-15-2011, 10:09
meh, i still push for a good gin and tonic, or vodka and tonic, or anything and tonic, keeps the blood sucking beast away:banana
Second that! Enough gin and you won't care about the skeeters anymore. The quinine in the tonic helps fight malaria, and the Vitamin C in the lime helps stave off scurvy. It's the perfect back-country refresher!
Northern Lights
05-15-2011, 10:23
Unfortunatly - not everything on the internet is true, and because Canadian Mosquito's don't care for the American CDC. They also now that Oil of lemon eucalyptus is a call to dinner..... you as a blood meal!
Repel is awful in backwoods conditions.
Don't knock Canadian Mosquitoes, they are our only mode of transportation in the summer. :D
Snowleopard
05-15-2011, 10:33
...
Who the hell uses low concentrations of DEET? ...
People who live in places that don't have lots of mosquitos or black flies.
... I've talked to some people that have been in some areas where the mosquitoes were so bad that even deet was useless, so there's no silver bullet here. ...
From what I've read, mosquitos are the worst in the north (i.e., the Arctic). They were pretty bad as far north as I've been, 13 hours north of Montreal, worse than in the jungle.
...Full length complete nanoseeum jumpsuits work too ...
They bite through netting where it's against your skin. The real bug suits are mostly thick cotton with netting in front of your face. These are usually, but not always, overkill on the AT. http://www.bugshirt.com/:
http://www.bugshirt.com/images/bugshirtband.JPG
There's a new product, 3M Ultrathon Clothing and Gear Insect Repellent, that is DEET based for use on clothing, lasts 6 weeks. I'll have to try it to augment the permethrin on my hat; maybe it'll keep the blackflies from swarming around my eyes (when they're biting it's head net time). http://www.rei.com/product/815046/3m-ultrathon-clothing-and-gear-insect-repellent
OK, here's the link to the CDC info. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/westnile/qa/insect_repellent.htm
If you read it, you will find that they recommend DEET or Picaridin, then add the statement about eucalyptus oil (fairly useless because they do not define a "low concentration of DEET"):
"
Q. Which mosquito repellents work best?
A. CDC recommends using products that have been shown to work in scientific trials and that contain active ingredients which have been registered with the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) (http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/health/mosquitoes/insectrp.htm) for use as insect repellents on skin or clothing. When EPA registers a repellent, they evaluate the product for efficacy and potential effects on human beings and the environment. EPA registration means that EPA does not expect a product, when used according to the instructions on the label, to cause unreasonable adverse effects to human health or the environment.
Of the active ingredients registered with the EPA, CDC believes that two have demonstrated a higher degree of efficacy in the peer-reviewed, scientific literature (See Publications (http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/westnile/publications.htm#Repellent) page.). Products containing these active ingredients typically provide longer-lasting protection than others:
DEET (N,N-diethyl-m-toluamide)
Picaridin (KBR 3023)
Oil of lemon eucalyptus [active ingredient: p-menthane 3,8-diol (PMD)], a plant- based repellent, is also registered with EPA. In two recent scientific publications, when oil of lemon eucalyptus was tested against mosquitoes found in the US it provided protection similar to repellents with low concentrations of DEET. "
They also add that generally higher concentrations work better (but add no info about when the concentration hits the point of diminishing returns):
"Q. How does the percentage of active ingredient in a product relate to the amount of protection it gives?
A. Typically, the more active ingredient a product contains the longer it provides protection from mosquito bites. The concentration of different active ingredients cannot be directly compared (that is, 10% concentration of one product doesnt mean it works exactly the same as 10% concentration of another product.)
DEET is an effective active ingredient found in many repellent products and in a variety of formulations. Based on a 2002 study (Fradin and Day, 2002. See Publications (http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/westnile/publications.htm) page.):
A product containing 23.8% DEET provided an average of 5 hours of protection from mosquito bites.
A product containing 20% DEET provided almost 4 hours of protection
A product with 6.65% DEET provided almost 2 hours of protection
Products with 4.75% DEET were both able to provide roughly 1 and a half hour of protection.
These examples represent results from only one study and are only included to provide a general idea of how such products may work. Actual protection will vary widely based on conditions such as temperature, perspiration, and water exposure.
Choose a repellent that provides protection for the amount of time that you will be outdoors. A product with a higher percentage of active ingredient is a good choice if you will be outdoors for several hours while a product with a lower concentration can be used if time outdoors will be limited. Simply re-apply repellent (following label instructions) if you are outdoors for a longer time than expected and start to be bitten by mosquitoes."
Given the sources cited, the statement "CDC Confirms Lemon Eucalyptus Oil as Effective as DEET" is clearly false, and just wishful thinking and misinformation based on religious-environmentalist overzealotry. This is brought to you by the same mindset that completely banned DDT, barring even low-dosage applications to bed netting, and directly contributing to the human death toll. http://www.calepa.ca.gov/cepc/2010/AsltonBird/AppAEx14.pdf
If someone has a statistically significant, double-blind study, comparing lemon eucalytpus oil to specific, 33.3% or higher concentration of DEET, then I would be very interested.
Fiddleback
05-15-2011, 10:46
Unfortunatly - not everything on the internet is true,...
I'll say! You can't believe everything on the internet...that's how WW I got started.:eek:
So...blending the credibility of the internet, the keen scientific analysis of backpacking forums, and the reputation of one of the country's leading medical journals, "Health Magazine", I can offer "vanilla extract".
In the April issue of "Health" an unsupported tip was printed; mix vanilla extract with water, 1:1, and spray it on.
I haven't tried it myself. As with most males, I find the scent of vanilla 'enticing':o...I don't want to take the chance that other, bigger critters here in the Northern Rockies react the same. But "Health" claims the mixture confounds the the mosquitoes sense of smell.
FB
Who the hell uses low concentrations of DEET?- Leaftye
UM, me! My perspective is: why slather myself in more of something if a lesser amount or lower concentration of that substance produces the same desired result?
Why carry a diluted product when you can carry less on the concentrated product and use less of it? If you're slathering yourself with DEET, you're using it wrong.
I've talked to some people that have been in some areas where the mosquitoes were so bad that even deet was useless, so there's no silver bullet here.
I respectfully think those people were exaggerating to make a point. I have never seen DEET properly applied fail to repel mosquitoes quite well, and I have never seen the "natural" repellants come close to the same effectiveness.
DEET is still the gold standard.
I might have been a bit too subtle in my indication of how little faith I have in any information from government agencies.
If it's ok with everyone, I'll go ahead and use what my own experience has taught me, and continue ignoring the lousy information that the CDC puts out...
Second that.
If it's ok with everyone, I'll go ahead and use what my own experience has taught me,
Sooner or later it always comes down to this.... I don't have a problem changing my mind or updating my views but....well... you have to separate the wheat from the chaff. And sometimes the chaff flies around here.. :)
(Sorry for butchering your comment but I think I captured the context...)
...I will put some trust in government agencies, this is one area in which I think we have to. I trust science. The CDC in my opinion is an agency mostly free of political hype, no matter who is in administration...
All government is political hype.
The "right to vote", a popularity contest. And a government is formed from that.
You say you "trust science"; have you read, "The Demon Haunted World, Science as a Candle in the Dark"?
How is your "bologna detection kit"?
Our governments' coins/paper say, "In God We Trust"; does the government have some scientific evidence to defend their claim?
The CDC, the FDA, etc. and other non-government agencies such as AMA, ADA, etc. all have made mistakes in the past. They most likely will make some in the future.
Some hikers use Lemon Eucalyptus Oil, some use DEET, I tend to use nothing.
Whatever you use, keep your "bologna detection kit" handy. And, know how to use "it".
HYOH :sun
This is anecdotal experience and just an empirical observation.:D
Since we have found that Black Flies:( tend to ignore even 100% DEET, we use "Bite Blocker". It claims as active ingredients Soy oil, Geranium oil and Castor oil with Wintergreen Oil among the inactive ingredients. It seems to work quite well for both and we use it while working around and on the trail here in Maine. It sure beats the greasy feeling of DEET:(. I can't imagine not being able to get DEET off with a hot shower after from working or hiking:eek:. Sweat comes off with a wash cloth at camp and you don't even notice the Bite Blocker:p.
Snowleopard
05-15-2011, 14:32
This is anecdotal experience and just an empirical observation.:D
Since we have found that Black Flies:( tend to ignore even 100% DEET, we use "Bite Blocker". It claims as active ingredients Soy oil, Geranium oil and Castor oil with Wintergreen Oil among the inactive ingredients. It seems to work quite well for both and we use it while working around and on the trail here in Maine. It sure beats the greasy feeling of DEET:(. I can't imagine not being able to get DEET off with a hot shower after from working or hiking:eek:. Sweat comes off with a wash cloth at camp and you don't even notice the Bite Blocker:p.
Wintergreen oil was in the old recipes for homemade bug dope. Be careful with wintergreen oil because it can be toxic. On the other hand, the "Bite Blocker" website doesn't list it as an ingredient, so you're OK. My recollection of the research is that DEET is not as effective on black flies as on mosquitos. When the black flies are bad, the mosquitos can't fight their way through anyway.
.....you can carry less on the concentrated product and use less of it? If you're slathering yourself with DEET, you're using it wrong. - Leaftye
Very well stated Leaftye! Good insight! Totally agree! The problem arises when folks don't do that though! They still use the same amount in a higher concentration as when they use a lesser concentration amount when it's not providing anymore protection! It's that mentallty of more is always better!
subliminal
05-15-2011, 15:00
Sooner or later it always comes down to this.... I don't have a problem changing my mind or updating my views but....well... you have to separate the wheat from the chaff. And sometimes the chaff flies around here.. :)
(Sorry for butchering your comment but I think I captured the context...)
No apologies necessary, I think you kept the context together just fine...
The reason for my distrust of the CDC on this particular issue is that they claim that 50% DEET provides the same repellant properties as 100%, with the only advantage of 100% being that it lasts longer.
In my own first hand experience, this is absolutely not the case. Anything less than 100% is completely ineffective for me. I've tried most of the varieties out there, and only 100% allows me to sit outdoors comfortably during mosquito season.
Then again, YMMV. Skeeters seem to be particularly fond of me. Many times I've come home covered in bites head to toe while my wife and kids were left completely alone, so I'd encourage everyone to go with what works for them. My mom swears by AVON Skin-so-soft, but it does absolutely nothing on me.
Also, mosquitoes are the primary concern in my neck of the woods, so I can't comment on what works well for black flies or other bugs....
WingedMonkey
05-15-2011, 15:06
I respectfully think those people were exaggerating to make a point. I have never seen DEET properly applied fail to repel mosquitoes quite well, and I have never seen the "natural" repellants come close to the same effectiveness.
DEET is still the gold standard.
I use DEET and will continue to. But I have been in conditions where even it was close to useless. I was canoeing what was going to be a 5 day trip out from Flamingo to East Cape in Everglades National park some years back. It was stupid to try in May but I had the time and the urge for solitude. The park is almost empty in May, they even stop charging at the gate.
I should have believed what I read in historical accounts of failure in raising cattle on Cape Sable because the cattle would suffocate from mosquitoes blocking their nostrils. The Everglades has 43 varieties of skeeters, both fresh and brackish water. I ended up wetting my bandana and tying it over my mouth and nose. A net and helmet where not part of my canoe camping gear, they are now. I surrendered after two days and went back to the pine lands, where at least the DEET would keep them at bay 'till I could dive in the tent.
All you outdoors folks going crazy waiting for Spring, come on down in May, we got a place for you. :D
This is the "Skeeter" Meter at the back country permit station on a better day.
Pedaling Fool
05-15-2011, 15:11
From what I've read, mosquitos are the worst in the north (i.e., the Arctic). They were pretty bad as far north as I've been, 13 hours north of Montreal, worse than in the jungle.
I respectfully think those people were exaggerating to make a point. I have never seen DEET properly applied fail to repel mosquitoes quite well, and I have never seen the "natural" repellants come close to the same effectiveness.
DEET is still the gold standard.
I don't know, maybe, can't confirm since I wasn't there. However, when I made that statement I did not mention it, but I was generally thinking about northern locales like what Snowleopard said above.
I've heard of horror stories from northern areas, such as the begining sections of the Mississippi river from people that canoed it. They said 100% DEET was useless.
And I've seen videos of people in northern Russia with mosquitoes so thick they had to wear beekeepers-type clothing. Mosquitoes are not all the same and some are very aggressive. However, there is something to be said for some people that just seem to be a magnet for them.
DEET is tired and true. I see no reason to change it out for something that may not work: not only does the AT have it's own bugs, but I believe there's an invasive mosquito from mainland asia making it's way up from Florida.
Snowleopard
05-15-2011, 18:55
I think Colter has more Arctic experience than I (zero for me).
If I'm reading his gear list right, he went 1050 miles across Alaska with 2 oz of DEET (in each cache?) and no headnet. http://www.bucktrack.com/Alaska_Backpacking_Gear_List_Review.html
Mosquitoes seem to really like me, and I've tried a lot of different repellents, and so far nothing really works for me except DEET. I don't really like using it, but it's better than the alternative of being eaten alive. I can taste the stuff a few seconds after I put it on my skin. But until il I find something better, I'm sticking with it. Lemon eucalyptus oil didn't work for me unfortunately.
and the Australian Cork Hat is as effective as oil of lemon eucalyptus
http://www.partypants.co.uk/hats/aussie-cork-australian-hat.jpg
MuddyWaters
05-15-2011, 22:39
there is an mosquito repellent device out there called the thermocell. Works when there is no wind , it makes a cloud of oil of chrysanthemum around you. I can attest to sitting in a deer stand with one, seeing a cloud of mosquitos around me, hearing them even, and none coming closer than 2 ft.
Pyrethrum comes from chrysanthemum oil too. There are several plants that are very highly repellent of insects. DEET is just cheaper.
WingedMonkey
05-15-2011, 23:18
there is an mosquito repellent device out there called the thermocell. Works when there is no wind , it makes a cloud of oil of chrysanthemum around you. I can attest to sitting in a deer stand with one, seeing a cloud of mosquitos around me, hearing them even, and none coming closer than 2 ft.
Pyrethrum comes from chrysanthemum oil too. There are several plants that are very highly repellent of insects. DEET is just cheaper.
ThermaCell uses Allethrin, a synthetic copy of pyrethrum. It is also used in mosquito coils.