View Full Version : The Place in Damascus Open?
WingedMonkey
05-19-2011, 17:38
Just heard The Place was not open yesterday. Is this a measure to clear out hiker trash from trail days? or is there a bigger problem?
Sign just said 'closed for repairs'. No mention on how long.
Lone Wolf
05-19-2011, 20:40
Just heard The Place was not open yesterday. Is this a measure to clear out hiker trash from trail days? or is there a bigger problem?
closed for repairs and upgrades. be open tomorrow maybe. lotsa health dept. flaws plus hikers not puttin' money in the donation box. may close for good one day soon
WingedMonkey
05-19-2011, 20:50
I love the place, glad it's there for us. Every time I've stopped there I've cleaned the shower and still tented in the lawn, and still know how to find the donation box.
Lone Wolf
05-19-2011, 20:53
I love the place, glad it's there for us. Every time I've stopped there I've cleaned the shower and still tented in the lawn, and still know how to find the donation box.
there's a few folks like you that go above and beyond. too many just use and abuse the place. thank you for doing the right thing
One of the hikers I shuttled back to the trail after Hardcore insisted on stopping and putting $20 in the donation box on the way through town. Should be more people like that.
Lone Wolf
06-27-2011, 21:31
I love the place, glad it's there for us. Every time I've stopped there I've cleaned the shower and still tented in the lawn, and still know how to find the donation box. today i walk ino "The Place" and a couple are sitting on the back porch under the sign that says NO ALCOHOL ON THE PROPERTY drinking beer openly. i told them in a polite manner to pack up and leave ASAP. the female tried to cop a plea by saying she'll get rid off the beer and could they still stay. i said no, you boke the rules knowingly/blatantly. she started crying say they've had a tough 475 miles or whatever and were trying to relax. i said she shoulda read the rules which ain't hard cuz they're posted all over. so i go back a little bit ago and there's a note to me " to the man that made us leave: thank you for reminding me why i don't belive in organized religion. you never practice what you preach. enjoy your B S prohibition. love J & G
i dislike most hikers for this reason
Trailbender
06-27-2011, 22:39
I went through Damascus at 10:30 at night on my thru, so I didn't stop there. Might be on the AT one day again though. Don't see why people had a problem with the no alcohol policy. I didn't drink much whenever I stayed in a hostel, and if I did, I always asked first.
Rain Man
06-28-2011, 11:52
today i walk ino "The Place" and a couple are sitting on the back porch under the sign that says NO ALCOHOL ON THE PROPERTY drinking beer openly. i told them in a polite manner to pack up and leave ASAP. ...
Good for you, Lone Wolf!!! There are always those who rationalize being above the law and better than mere mortals.
Rain Man
.
Girls drove in last night with dog in tow, stayed for the night and raised holy manure when Lone Wolf and I asked them to leave. Had to call the troops in and they left finally.
wornoutboots
07-13-2011, 23:59
with all the people who stayed there during Trail Days, you shouldn't have been able to squeeze another dime in their donation box, unfortunately when I left my more than fair share b4 I left that wasn't the case. : o (
Most who stay never drop a dime in that box......Trail Day's never gets near what it should, for all of those who stayed inside and out on the lawn this year there should have been at least four to five hundred a day in that box but Tommy Hayes says we were down over a thousand dollars from last years gathering and that box never averaged more than one to two hundred a day....
I'll let Lone Wolf speak for himself but I am seeing an increase of users and abusers come thru The Place, just two days ago I had a very unstable 20 yr old that I had to ask to leave after he had been there for five days and right before he arrived there were four boys who were there for four days before we caught them in their sleep and asked them to leave and those boys never left a dime...
It is just a matter of time before this great entity called The Place is put onto administrative leave....
Tommy Hayes says we were down over a thousand dollars from last years gathering and that box never averaged more than one to two hundred a day....
How many beds are there? $200 a day would be 40 beds
How many beds are there? $200 a day would be 40 bedsthere were well over a hundred people in and out and using the facilities for four days running..........
Lone Wolf
07-14-2011, 14:51
How many beds are there? $200 a day would be 40 beds30 bunks plus dozens of tents and car campers at The Place during trail days plus people using showers that aren't staying there. Tow is right $400 - $500 a day shoulda been in the donation box. pathetic. the so-called "AT community" is going to heck in a handbasket
there were well over a hundred people in and out and using the facilities for four days running..........
30 bunks plus dozens of tents and car campers at The Place during trail days plus people using showers that aren't staying there. Tow is right $400 - $500 a day shoulda been in the donation box. pathetic. the so-called "AT community" is going to heck in a handbasket
Oh right, forgot about all the showers and camping at Trails Days. Never mind putting in what's expected, it wouldn't surprise me if some are dipping into the box.
I'd have to agree with you on that Sly...........
Lone Wolf
02-15-2012, 14:01
i heard today that "The Place" won't be open this season. i'll post again when i get confirmation
Blissful
02-15-2012, 14:54
It's finally happened...
Sad
It's finally happened...
SadBlame the rule breakers and those who are so cheap on their 6 month vacation that they can't throw in at least the minimum suggested donation. This is called "reaping what you sow".
Why don't they make payment non-voluntary? Just curious. I figure there is a legal reason, just not sure what it is.
Why don't they make payment non-voluntary? Just curious.Then you gotta have someone there most of the time to collect donations. I'm sure from a staffing perspective, that would be more than a little difficult for the church.
Well I guess this solves it.
It would seem it's been due for quite some time. Damascus was one of my least favorite towns on my hike. It seemed very clear that hikers have succeeded in wearing out the welcome.
trippclark
02-15-2012, 18:03
i heard today that "The Place" won't be open this season. i'll post again when i get confirmation
This is sad if it is true. It would be disappointing in the improper actions of a relative few ruin a very nice service. I stayed at the place on two different occasions. I always abided by all of the rules and left a nice donation, plus bought and left some consumables there (toilet paper, soft drinks, paper towels). It is always frustrating when folks do not act respectful of the generosity of others.
It can only get worse. A recession is no time for charity. lol
Why don't they make payment non-voluntary? Just curious. I figure there is a legal reason, just not sure what it is.
That would make it a business. The government would get involved and we all know where that would lead!
Lone Wolf
02-15-2012, 19:35
This is sad if it is true. It would be disappointing in the improper actions of a relative few ruin a very nice service.
it's gone well beyond "a relative few". a large percentage (thru-hikers) do not donate for staying there. church, scout, other youth groups and section hikers DO donate and clean up after themselves.
It's a very nice looking building. I am sure the church can find a way to put it to better use.
Sad, I plan on being in Damascus for the 1st time late next month, will be happy to leave a donation even if they are closed, bar tab on me as well. Saving up now for Spring hike
Kudo's to Lone Wolf, good handling...............staying free is abusive, and breaking reasonable house rules is BS!!!
CrumbSnatcher
02-15-2012, 20:58
i'll buy it
how much :-)
Lone Wolf
02-15-2012, 21:06
It's a very nice looking building. I am sure the church can find a way to put it to better use.raze it and pave the lot for parking is what i've heard in the past
Just a Hiker
02-15-2012, 21:33
I will be sorry to see them close, but I am not shocked. People have been stiffing "The Place" and Kincora more and more each year. I am not 100% sure why some hikers think Donation = Free!
Sierra Echo
02-15-2012, 21:37
The church should close it and use their money elsewhere. There are so many people in need these days.
Lone Wolf
02-15-2012, 21:50
The church should close it and use their money elsewhere. There are so many people in need these days.
normally donations pay for water, sewer, electric, minor repairs, landscaping, etc. "The Place" used to pay for itself. today's hikers are deadbeats. sad but true
it's gone well beyond "a relative few". a large percentage (thru-hikers) do not donate for staying there. church, scout, other youth groups and section hikers DO donate and clean up after themselves.
if that's the case they should close to hikers and remain open for the others.
CrumbSnatcher
02-15-2012, 22:59
I am not 100% sure why some hikers think Donation = Free!because they keep getting advice on WB that you can thruhike the trail on 1,000-1,500 dollars, then once out there they go broke quick and the free loading takes over. its like name that tune! (i can name that tune in 1 note)you don't win anything for hiking the trail the cheapest
BUT i could be wrong :-) maybe its just the world we live in today?
SassyWindsor
02-16-2012, 00:38
Can't blame the church for closing The Place. About the only way to make a go of it would be to get an on site caretaker to live there during peak season and set "recommended" fees for which the caretaker could highly recommend to overnighters/users. As well as enforce basic rules.
SassyWindsor
02-16-2012, 00:39
Oh yea, just close it during non-peak season.
Good point Crumb. On a previous thread I said it took me at least $5,000 to thru last year but I left a $50 at Kincora and stayed at Dancing Bear in Damascus. It won't be long before the only place to stay will be motels and B&Bs.
Ugh I hate headg this stuff :( the times they r a changing actually going to heck in a basket
Can't blame the church for closing The Place. About the only way to make a go of it would be to get an on site caretaker to live there during peak season and set "recommended" fees for which the caretaker could highly recommend to overnighters/users. As well as enforce basic rules.
Agreed. The church could raise the fees a few bucks and pay a caretaker to make sure everyone pays and enforce the rules. Not only would it straighten out the hostel, but give someone a job. Win/win
CrumbSnatcher
02-16-2012, 19:18
if i move my family to damascus,after work i'd stop in there every single evening and collect the rent for the church and clean up the place as often as i could
the church wouldn't have to pay me a dime :-) i bet LW has cleaned his share of THE PLACE
Lone Wolf
02-16-2012, 21:44
Agreed. The church could raise the fees a few bucks and pay a caretaker to make sure everyone pays and enforce the rules. Not only would it straighten out the hostel, but give someone a job. Win/win
wrong. churches can't charge. they can only ask for donations. it's not a business. it's a ministry. hikers don't care. it's cheap/free place to crash. AT thru-hikers are a piss-poor "community"
wrong. churches can't charge. they can only ask for donations. it's not a business. it's a ministry. hikers don't care. it's cheap/free place to crash. AT thru-hikers are a piss-poor "community"
I'm sure there are ways to get around that.
Lone Wolf
02-16-2012, 22:04
I'm sure there are ways to get around that.
no. there aren't
no. there aren't
Yeah, there are. Some churches do charge money for certain services (baptism, weddings) or charge for memberships.
Plus there are other ways. A church or trail benefactor could donate a couple thousand for the season with the stipulation they find someone willing to enforce the rules. Or put some one in there similar to a ridge runner.
You just need to think outside the box ...
Yeah, there are. Some churches do charge money for certain services (baptism, weddings) or charge for memberships.
naah, those are generally all "reccomended donations."
This is too bad. I was looking forward to staying there. AWOL's guide says the reccomended donation was only $5. Can't see how they could afford to supply hot water for that. Might have helped if they would reccomend a little higher donation like $15-$20. Probably too late for that now if the doors are already closed. I'm sure the deadbeats would still be deadbeats but the extra from those donating might have helped make up the difference.
Lone Wolf
02-17-2012, 09:49
This is too bad. I was looking forward to staying there. AWOL's guide says the reccomended donation was only $5. Can't see how they could afford to supply hot water for that. Might have helped if they would reccomend a little higher donation like $15-$20. Probably too late for that now if the doors are already closed. I'm sure the deadbeats would still be deadbeats but the extra from those donating might have helped make up the difference.
if everybody that stayed there put $5 in the box it would more than pay for all the utilities.
Lone Wolf
02-17-2012, 09:50
This is too bad. I was looking forward to staying there. AWOL's guide says the reccomended donation was only $5. Can't see how they could afford to supply hot water for that. Might have helped if they would reccomend a little higher donation like $15-$20. Probably too late for that now if the doors are already closed. I'm sure the deadbeats would still be deadbeats but the extra from those donating might have helped make up the difference.
if everybody that stayed there put $5 in the box it would more than pay for all the utilities.
Not Sunshine
02-17-2012, 10:05
yeah, i'd like to reference the dozens of opinions regarding "if" someone can claim unemployment while taking a 5 month vacation thru-hiking. it's in the recent threads. [yes, i have an opinion; and it doesn't matter who pays for the unemployment. it shouldn't be paid out to someone who isn't actively seeking long-term employment - which you cannot while hiking].
atmilkman
02-17-2012, 10:24
I too was planning on staying there next year 2013. Is there anywhere to stay that might compare?
CrumbSnatcher
02-17-2012, 10:25
if everybody that stayed there put $5 in the box it would more than pay for all the utilities.
its a decent stay with all you need, very close to the outfitters, the stores,pub, and some good eats! 15.00 is very resonable
Lone Wolf
02-17-2012, 10:27
I too was planning on staying there next year 2013. Is there anywhere to stay that might compare?
no. Dave's Place is $20 and the Hikers Inn is $25. B&Bs are $75 and up
CrumbSnatcher
02-17-2012, 10:29
-----------------------------
CrumbSnatcher
02-17-2012, 10:30
hikers with dogs still allowed to camp near the river?
been along time(not during TD's)
atmilkman
02-17-2012, 10:34
[QUOTE=CrumbSnatcher;1254504]its a decent stay with all you need, very close to the outfitters, the stores,pub, and some good eats! 15.00 is very resonable[/QUOTE
I've only ever driven through Damascus years ago when checking out trail towns for a future thru-hike. Ate lunch, can't even remember where, this was when they had just discovered dirt on the trail. Spent about half a day there and remember saying this is one place I definitely want to stop. Now it's time and I want to take a zero or 2 there and was really hoping to stay at the place because of all I read and the rules and such but it looks like that wont be possible so are there any other similar places.
atmilkman
02-17-2012, 10:36
no. Dave's Place is $20 and the Hikers Inn is $25. B&Bs are $75 and up
What are the first two place like.
atmilkman
02-17-2012, 10:55
no. Dave's Place is $20 and the Hikers Inn is $25. B&Bs are $75 and up
Just found your post from 2003 about Dave's place. If The Place is not open in 2013 then this is where I'll stay.
Lone Wolf
02-17-2012, 11:10
hikers with dogs still allowed to camp near the river?
been along time(not during TD's)
no.............
naah, those are generally all "reccomended donations."
Yeah right. Do you think any church is obligated to marry or baptize anyone that walks through the door for free? They're legal fees.
If anything, recommended or suggested donations are bottom line prices on an honor system. There's nothing preventing the church form enforcing the rules, one of which is $5 a night.
Lone Wolf
02-17-2012, 12:23
If anything, recommended or suggested donations are bottom line prices on an honor system. There's nothing preventing the church form enforcing the rules, one of which is $5 a night.
you just don't get it....
you just don't get it....
I get it. There's nothing from the church legally charging hikers to stay, or paying a caretaker to care for the place.
Lone Wolf
02-17-2012, 12:36
I get it. There's nothing from the church legally charging hikers to stay, or paying a caretaker to care for the place.and it's the same at all other church hostels along the trail
Captain Blue
02-17-2012, 12:46
I think the issue is that if a church runs a lodging business then the IRS could consider it "unrelated business income" and therefore be subject to federal income taxes. So, yes, a church can charge for lodging but it would probably cause them to have taxable income. From the IRS web site ....
For most organizations, an activity is an unrelated business (and subject to unrelated business income tax) if it meets three requirements:
* It is a trade or business,
* It is regularly carried on, and
* It is not substantially related to furthering the exempt purpose of the organization.
The hostel in Pearisburg has had a non-paid (as far as I know) volunteer run around chasing hikers that haven't paid for years.
Since the Place doesn't fall into category two above (they close off season) and could leave flyers furthering their faith in category three, and hardly falls into category one, it should easily pass IRS muster.
CrumbSnatcher
02-17-2012, 13:05
never been in a church hostel that had set fee's,always donation
damascus
troutdale
vernon
graymoor
cheshire
manchester center
never been in a church hostel that had set fee's,always donation
damascus
troutdale
vernon
graymoor
cheshire
manchester center
call it what you will
Donation
: the act or an instance of donating (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/donating): as a : the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution
donation doesn't equal free.
From the Companion:
DONATIONS
Many hostels listed in this book suggest donations for the services provided. This means
that the service should not be considered a gift or that it costs the provider nothing. The
honor system of the Trail requires that you leave something.
CrumbSnatcher
02-17-2012, 13:16
call it what you will
Donation
: the act or an instance of donating (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/donating): as a : the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution
donation doesn't equal free.im not agreeing with either one of you,just what i experienced :-)
not smart enough to keep up with you & LW anyways :-)
Just found your post from 2003 about Dave's place. If The Place is not open in 2013 then this is where I'll stay.
Hikers Inn is a great deal....with a reputation of clean and comfortable.
im not agreeing with either one of you,just what i experienced :-)
not smart enough to keep up with you & LW anyways :-)
LOL...
I'm just trying to point out where there's a will there's a way. If the church has lost its will and doesn't want to correct the problems there's nothing anyone can do about it short of buying the property from them.
Shame too. ALDHA is trying to organize volunteers to help low-cost or free hostel get through peak thru-hiker season and I think some would be willing to try and help the Place.
max patch
02-17-2012, 13:28
Yeah right. Do you think any church is obligated to marry or baptize anyone that walks through the door for free? They're legal fees.
Baptize? Of course they will. Thats kinda what churches are there for...
And churches will marry MEMBERS for free; although anyone who can afford to will pay something.
Baptize? Of course they will. Thats kinda what churches are there for...
And churches will marry MEMBERS for free; although anyone who can afford to will pay something.
Whether the church will baptize or marry people for free wasn't the question. They're not obligated to preform the services for free and can charge what they want. Same as letting people stay in a hostel.
If you can't afford a baptism or to pay for a marriage maybe you shouldn't have kids or get married in the 1st place. Why should my church donation go to your kids baptism? (see how that works)
If you can't afford or unwilling to pay $5 to stay at a hostel maybe you shouldn't be staying or hiking in the 1st place.
jersey joe
02-17-2012, 13:54
because they keep getting advice on WB that you can thruhike the trail on 1,000-1,500 dollars, then once out there they go broke quick and the free loading takes over. its like name that tune! (i can name that tune in 1 note)you don't win anything for hiking the trail the cheapest
BUT i could be wrong :-) maybe its just the world we live in today?
Even I left the suggested donation when I stayed at The Place and I hiked the trail on the cheap.
I feel like this comes up almost every year, there is rumor that The Place will shut down and never does.
I didn't know it existed before hiking into Damascus on my thru hike and while I certainly appreciated it, if The Place closed hikers would adjust and adapt pretty easily.
CrumbSnatcher
02-17-2012, 13:54
if i win the powerball lottery sat. i will hook up the church, it could be a coin toss! they will either want a brand new parking lot, or use the funds to stay in the black for a long time to come! either way they would deserve it!
jersey joe
02-17-2012, 13:57
Good point. I know that If I ever stayed at The Place again I would leave a much larger donation as appreciation for having stayed there when I was younger and poorer and only left the minimum donation.
Old Hiker
02-17-2012, 14:05
Good point. I know that If I ever stayed at The Place again I would leave a much larger donation as appreciation for having stayed there when I was younger and poorer and only left the minimum donation.
Not too late to play catch-up. You could still send a donation to the church.
wornoutboots
02-17-2012, 14:24
I've stayed at The Place about 10 times & every year at TD, If everyone who stayed there ar TD would leave the suggest donation, it could stay afloat all year! It's truly a great place!
max patch
02-17-2012, 14:40
If you can't afford or unwilling to pay $5 to stay at a hostel maybe you shouldn't be staying or hiking in the 1st place.
Amen to that.
AT thru-hikers are a piss-poor "community"
You are %100 right. Its not ALL of us, but i think WE ( the people that are doign the right thing) have caused some of this too. I mean just look at the threads yesterday " can i hike on 1k" and you had people telling stories about some dude that made it to NY on $75, do people think those kinds of stories are going to attract the right type of people ??? if that story is true someone should of beat the SHIITTT out of him before leaving VA! how many times has soemthing been going on at a shelter that shouldnt be, and we just walk passed without saying anything. The last and only time i thru'd was in 02, but i have been on serval section and week long hikes since and i can see a difference in the community even since then. i dont even know what someone that kiled in the 80's or 90's would think. i think the "hike your won hike" mentality( which is great) the you do your thing and i will do my thing, has bit us in the ass, we let people get away with WAYYY to much for WAYYY to long
atmilkman
02-17-2012, 15:16
Hikers Inn is a great deal....with a reputation of clean and comfortable.
I just googled the Hikers Inn and it really seems like a great place too. I was really hoping to stay at The Place because of its Church affiliation. But, if it's not open and I wind up taking a couple of zeros I'll make it a point to stay a day at each of Dave's Place and the Hikers Inn. I'm going to attempt a kinda weird leap/leap frog starting at the Conn/NY line and hiking south to Damascus, taking a couple of days off then head on up to Baxter and hike to where i started then back to Damascus, rest up and hopefully by the grace of God hike it into Springer/Amicolola. I hoping to catch up with some of the SOBO's by then and catch the Smokies at the color change. So, Damascus and The Place are/were gonna play a major role head-wise, you know getting it straight/keeping it straight.
Yeah right. Do you think any church is obligated to marry or baptize anyone that walks through the door for free? They're legal fees.
If anything, recommended or suggested donations are bottom line prices on an honor system. There's nothing preventing the church form enforcing the rules, one of which is $5 a night.
obligated? no. but if someone is a regular attendee of that church and is a part of the community and can not afford the donation they will be married or baptized either way. random strangers walking in off the street are most likely denied anyway for reasons having nothing to do with finances.
the legal fee for marriage i imagine is not paid directly to the church and is a seperate side issue.
Whether the church will baptize or marry people for free wasn't the question. They're not obligated to preform the services for free and can charge what they want. Same as letting people stay in a hostel.
If you can't afford a baptism or to pay for a marriage maybe you shouldn't have kids or get married in the 1st place. Why should my church donation go to your kids baptism? (see how that works)
that attitude is the total antithesis of being a member of organized religion. anyone who felt that way most likely would never join (and therefore never donate) in the first place.
that attitude is the total antithesis of being a member of organized religion. anyone who felt that way most likely would never join (and therefore never donate) in the first place.
Yeah. No matter what you guys say or think, most people pay the church to get married or baptized. To think differently is almost as bad as the hikers that skip without paying.
the legal fee for marriage i imagine is not paid directly to the church and is a seperate side issue.
Do you seriously think the church is going to open it's doors and pay an organist, etc for nothing? It can cost upwards of $700 or more to the church to get married. Do they preform free marriages? Perhaps on occasion for the poor.
Hiker aren't so poor, and shouldn't be expecting freebies.
hikerboy57
02-17-2012, 18:40
that attitude is the total antithesis of being a member of organized religion. anyone who felt that way most likely would never join (and therefore never donate) in the first place.
although im not jewish, i understand its very expensive to join a temple, and they do charge for seats for the "high holidays".
How much does the church cost for a wedding?
http://www.weddingwire.com/wedding-forums/how-much-does-catholic-church-cost/ba72e4c093734db1.html
Not Catholic...
http://www.ehow.com/how_2064372_get-married-united-methodist-church.html
Baptist?
http://trinitynorman.org/ministries/weddings/wedding-cost/#c420
Do you seriously think the church is going to open it's doors and pay an organist, etc for nothing? It can cost upwards of $700 or more to the church to get married. Do they preform free marriages? Perhaps on occasion for the poor.
Hiker aren't so poor, and shouldn't be expecting freebies.
i'm by no means suggesting no one should donate for weddings or for lodging at a hostel. but the claim that a church charge can formally charge for lodging because they formally charge for weddings and baptisms is wrong on multiple counts.
as for the organists comment- not all organists are paid. not all weddings have organists. my local undertsandign of ettiquete in these matters is the people getting married would more than likely give the organist a gift if they were able to do so.
oh, and just to pre-empt the possibility of it going there... what they can in fact legally do currently and what i think they should be allowed to do are seperate matters. i think anyone living anywhere should be allowed to charge anyone whatever they want for staying on any sort of property they own. but for some reason thats not how it works.