View Full Version : Are hikers less considerate than a decade ago?
tjforrester
05-21-2011, 08:47
I last thru-hiked the AT in 1999, and I only saw one dog in a water source during that entire hike. Back then, dog owners tied their dogs away from the water sources, filled up collapsible bowls, and carried the water to their pets. They did this because they know canines carry giardia lamblia, and they didn't want to infect hikers who drank from the same sources. These dog owners were informed and considerate, and I greatly appreciated their efforts.
Recently, in a single day, I saw five leashed dogs in water sources.
Five!
I started taking pictures, decided to blog (http://tjforrester.com/2011/05/20/appalachian-trail-hike-hot-springs-to-erwin-to-the-colbert-report/) about it.
Here we go.. :)
1. Don't blame the dogs, blame the owners....
2. My dog would never do that.
3. Keep your dog on a leash.
4. My dog obeys my every command and doesn't need a leash thank you very much.
5. ?
Jonnycat
05-21-2011, 09:01
Oh look, it's yet another anti-dog rant, and this guy has his knickers in such a twist he made a blog about it! :rolleyes:
Pedaling Fool
05-21-2011, 09:01
If I owned a dog I would keep him out of water sources just out of common courtesy. However, I don't believe the health threat is that great. The water does run and one dog every now and then is not going to taint the source. Years ago there was a lot of media hype about terrorists tainting our water sources, but not much attention was given to just how difficult this is to do.
mweinstone
05-21-2011, 09:21
i strangeled a dog to death as a kid. it was clamped on my jugular hard and not letting go. as the limp deflating corpse of the tiny snouser , or whatever breed it was, slid out of my hands, i realized it had only attacked me cause i was about to drink from its private water source, a small puddle it was sleeping next to on the road. as i drank the puddle i realized what i had done. but my thirst didnt allow me to care. i buryed him in leaves with sticks and a rock on top and kept hitching. i dont think anyone in that town cared about that dog one bit. he had dreadlocks and a maggot infected cut on its belly and had had puppys recently. point is, dogs dont get much respect in our world. neither does the world. i love dogs so frikkin much, the only thing i see when i see dogs running free in the trails environs, are dogs at risk of being killed a thousand ways by bear or people or any number of snake and spider and tic. dogs been with us since the first. we suck as friends to them. we couldnt do a worse job as a scociaty.in my opinion, any dog needing a leash is an untrained dog. and any dog owner unable to acheive propper behavior in a domesticated pet cannot own pets without my despiseing that.
It's interesting that all the dogs on this forum are perfectly well behaved, but all the dogs on the trail are vermin. I think more than one person may be exagerating here.
But in all seriousness, dogs are a problem on the trail. People refuse to follow rules.
mweinstone
05-21-2011, 09:31
a dog dosnt make a move without being either allowed, commanded or forced. they work in tandem with us perfectly. as a well behaved child with undieing obediance to a father figure. the nuroses allowed to taint our pets fall from our own selves onto them. dogs reflect their owners bent. completly. and then their are the unowned. very sad.
I think I would rather drink after a dog than some of the mangy, unkempt hikers I have seen on the trail.
mweinstone
05-21-2011, 09:38
made up the part about killing the dog for your enjoyment.
mweinstone
05-21-2011, 09:39
I think I would rather drink after a dog than some of the mangy, unkempt hikers I have seen on the trail.
yup...................
a dog dosnt make a move without being either allowed, commanded or forced. they work in tandem with us perfectly. as a well behaved child with undieing obediance to a father figure. the nuroses allowed to taint our pets fall from our own selves onto them. dogs reflect their owners bent. completly. and then their are the unowned. very sad.
Maybe some dogs. For some reason, if Mattie is right, I've never met a dog. that didn't have a neurotic owner.
LoneRidgeRunner
05-21-2011, 10:01
I think I would rather drink after a dog than some of the mangy, unkempt hikers I have seen on the trail.
It's a proven fact that a dog's mouth is cleaner than a human mouth..BUT..I've never seen a human licking his nads or a** I would never let my dog (if I still had one) drink from the water sources
There again..the dog cannot be blamed...only the owners who allow it to happen are to blame..
mweinstone
05-21-2011, 10:07
some dogs are perfect:
fabian
tucker dog
raven
lp
spit
hillwalkers dog
sarah
these dogs are responsible for their owners sanity. or were. rip .
LoneRidgeRunner
05-21-2011, 10:12
Oh look, it's yet another anti-dog rant, and this guy has his knickers in such a twist he made a blog about it! :rolleyes:
I looked at this blog...It's not strictly an anti-dog blog as you implied..It just has a short post about dogs drinking from the water sources.. and he isn't really blaming the dogs, either in this post or the blog..He's placing the blame where it belongs..on the owners.. I once wouldn't allow a Peacock in the water source near Bob Stratton Bald in the Slickrock Wilderness until I was through with it...It tried to run me off by walking up within 2 feet squawking and carrying on..I finally had to slap it a few times (did no harm to it) In that case I blame the Peacock because it was wild..I know they're not native to USA but people have them as pets and they squawk all the time so the owners take em to wilderness areas and set em out..
i didn't take this as an anti-dog rant, just as an irresponsible owner rant. however, i think the op could have taken this a little farther than just using dog owners as an example. the majority of thru-hikers these days do seem to have very little manners. i ran into some of them this week in virginia. and before you high-and-mighties get your panties twisted, please note that i did say majority, not totality. i think this problem has to do alot with their raising. there is very little discipline in the world this past decade or so, and unfortunately, the entitlement that goes with that has unavoidably spilled out onto the trail. understandable, since you have to come from society (mostly) to get onto the trail. it's really sad. i ran into a little girl that told me all about thru-hikers rules and how everything is out there for them and once they are satisfied then the section hikers can get what's left over. i left before i smacked her. i'm sorry you had a bad experience with thru-hikers, especially since dogs were concerned, but i can't say i'm not surprised.
But in all seriousness, dogs are a problem on the trail. People refuse to follow rules.
logic and reason tells me that this means there is a people problem on the trail.
LoneRidgeRunner
05-21-2011, 10:22
Originally Posted by tolkien View Post
But in all seriousness, dogs are a problem on the trail. People refuse
to follow rules.
logic and reason tells me that this means there is a people problem on the trail.
I agree with kanga on this one...
LoneRidgeRunner
05-21-2011, 10:23
i didn't take this as an anti-dog rant, just as an irresponsible owner rant. however, i think the op could have taken this a little farther than just using dog owners as an example. the majority of thru-hikers these days do seem to have very little manners. i ran into some of them this week in virginia. and before you high-and-mighties get your panties twisted, please note that i did say majority, not totality. i think this problem has to do alot with their raising. there is very little discipline in the world this past decade or so, and unfortunately, the entitlement that goes with that has unavoidably spilled out onto the trail. understandable, since you have to come from society (mostly) to get onto the trail. it's really sad. i ran into a little girl that told me all about thru-hikers rules and how everything is out there for them and once they are satisfied then the section hikers can get what's left over. i left before i smacked her. i'm sorry you had a bad experience with thru-hikers, especially since dogs were concerned, but i can't say i'm not surprised.
All statements very well put..and FACT ..
Toolshed
05-21-2011, 10:48
Not just THers. In the corporate world, in meetings, I see people sitting at different tables texting messages back and forth constantly, not paying attention - little jokes, comments about speakers & programs, what they are doing for lunch or the weekend. We have a great lack of common courtesy and have an all out hard-on for instant gratification.
In a word, reversalism. we have reverted back to being 5 year olds with 2 minute attention spans. We no longer daydream and think, we text.
I am embarassed when I see Sr. Director levels textng back and forth between tables or aisles and snickering at what each other has written. It's very disrespectful.
On a personal level, I'm MORE considerate than a decade ago. I was just out of the Marine Corps, and a little brash and hard-nosed then though I still tried to use good manners.
Now, I'm older and mellower. And my teddy bear smacks me if I'm rude.
... never mind, I don't have a dog in this fight.. :)
Jonnycat
05-21-2011, 13:18
It just has a short post about dogs drinking from the water sources.. and he isn't really blaming the dogs, either in this post or the blog..He's placing the blame where it belongs..on the owners..
What about beavers and other small mammals, the traditional vectors of spreading giardia, does he cover that? No, he does not.
What about deer that go to die in a shady area near a creek, does he talk about the diseases that spreads? No, he does not.
What about discussing the necessity of always filtering your water source, does he discuss that? No, he does not.
As the author did not see fit to mention these, and the myriad of other sources of water contamination issues, of which dogs are a very small percentage of concern in the grand scheme of things, it is nothing more than yet another hate-filled anti-dog rant by an anti-caninist.
Rain Man
05-21-2011, 14:17
Ate last week at The Homeplace family style restaurant in Catawba, VA.
They told us they used to leave the door unlocked at night for hikers to come in to take showers, use bathroom, and get water. No longer. They say that hikers are less considerate, yes.
They never mentioned dogs and I don't think dogs are the problem. I think the problem is hikers who rationalize their own bad behavior. That might include unleashed dogs, sure. It might include so-called "stealth" (illegal) camping. Or carrying guns illegally and rationalizing about it. Or abusing drugs (and yes, alcohol is a drug) at shelters, hostels, homes, and motels. The list goes on, but in the end it is about hikers thinking THEY are above the law, lesser mortals, and common decency.
Rain Man
.
Jersey Tim
05-21-2011, 14:52
As the author did not see fit to mention these, and the myriad of other sources of water contamination issues, of which dogs are a very small percentage of concern in the grand scheme of things, it is nothing more than yet another hate-filled anti-dog rant by an anti-caninist.
Wow, dude. You could probably write some really good alarmist/supremacist political rhetoric -- I mean the good stuff, full of globalizing statements and slathered with grandiose labels with "anti-" prefixes -- if you chose to focus on humans. Tone down your whining, and snap out of your persecuted mindset.
Oh, and since I, as one hiker among thousands or millions, am such a "very small percentage of concern in the grand scheme of things", is it OK for me to toss my garbage on the trail? I mean, come on, it's not like my one Snickers wrapper a day chucked in the underbrush is going to ruin anyone's hike, right? ...No. That would not be cool at all. Every little bit hurts, and every ounce of prevention helps.
I didn't think this was going to be about dogs from the title. I thought it would be about inconsiderate littering by thru-hikers, of which I saw PLENTY of during my recent 5 day hike on the PCT between Big Bear and Interstate 15. I mean come on, wrappers and maps and various trash just left everywhere. What ever happened to leave no trace? Thank god I didn't have to spend any time in town cringing over the entitled behavior that some thru-hikers have in town. That would have just ruined my trip.
What about beavers and other small mammals, the traditional vectors of spreading giardia, does he cover that? No, he does not.
What about deer that go to die in a shady area near a creek, does he talk about the diseases that spreads? No, he does not.
What about discussing the necessity of always filtering your water source, does he discuss that? No, he does not.
As the author did not see fit to mention these, and the myriad of other sources of water contamination issues, of which dogs are a very small percentage of concern in the grand scheme of things, it is nothing more than yet another hate-filled anti-dog rant by an anti-caninist.
Ah Jonnycat. This would be a pretty boring forum if everyone was forced to mention all other possible wrongs in order to complain about some aspect of the trail.
Besides, not everyone knows everything about all possible wrongs that afflict trails. For instance some people think that deer go to die in shady areas near creeks. They rarely do. Very few dead wild creatures are found in the woods by hikers. That's because most sick wild animals seek shelter in heavy brush or blowdowns where they won't be disturbed.
Some even wrongly think there is a necessity to "always filter your water source." Thousands do no such thing. Wise hikers know that giardiasis is best avoided by not sharing food offered by hikers that rarely wash their hands, and by not allowing "friendly" dogs to lap their faces, even though they know the dog's owner will probably think of them as being hate-filled, anti dog because of their caution.
IMO, People in general, dog owners or otherwise, are less considerate than a generation ago... more self-absorbed, apparently less concerned about others. I hope it's not a permanent trend.
What about beavers and other small mammals, the traditional vectors of spreading giardia, does he cover that? No, he does not.
What about deer that go to die in a shady area near a creek, does he talk about the diseases that spreads? No, he does not.
What about discussing the necessity of always filtering your water source, does he discuss that? No, he does not.
As the author did not see fit to mention these, and the myriad of other sources of water contamination issues, of which dogs are a very small percentage of concern in the grand scheme of things, it is nothing more than yet another hate-filled anti-dog rant by an anti-caninist.
Exactly, that's why we treat/filter our drinking water. The dog drank from a water source. So what?
What about beavers and other small mammals, the traditional vectors of spreading giardia, does he cover that? No, he does not.
What about deer that go to die in a shady area near a creek, does he talk about the diseases that spreads? No, he does not.
What about discussing the necessity of always filtering your water source, does he discuss that? No, he does not.
As the author did not see fit to mention these, and the myriad of other sources of water contamination issues, of which dogs are a very small percentage of concern in the grand scheme of things, it is nothing more than yet another hate-filled anti-dog rant by an anti-caninist.
stop drinking tequila for breakfast.
hikerboy57
05-21-2011, 15:50
IMO, People in general, dog owners or otherwise, are less considerate than a generation ago... more self-absorbed, apparently less concerned about others. I hope it's not a permanent trend.
It seems like younger folks have more entitlement issues than the previous generation, but then again, I think my dad felt the same way.I think a lot of "rude "people dont even realize theyre being rude until you point it out to them, like answering their cell phone or textingwhile you're trying to have a conversation with them.Most of hiker rudeness I think comes from ignorance, litter the shelters and then complain when they come back that the shelters are filled with garbage. They need to be taught.(and maybe spanked).
Ah Jonnycat. This would be a pretty boring forum if everyone was forced to mention all other possible wrongs in order to complain about some aspect of the trail.
Besides, not everyone knows everything about all possible wrongs that afflict trails. For instance some people think that deer go to die in shady areas near creeks. They rarely do. Very few dead wild creatures are found in the woods by hikers. That's because most sick wild animals seek shelter in heavy brush or blowdowns where they won't be disturbed.
Some even wrongly think there is a necessity to "always filter your water source." Thousands do no such thing. Wise hikers know that giardiasis is best avoided by not sharing food offered by hikers that rarely wash their hands, and by not allowing "friendly" dogs to lap their faces, even though they know the dog's owner will probably think of them as being hate-filled, anti dog because of their caution.
I just wanted to quote this so it'd be seen twice. Very good post Weary.
Toolshed
05-21-2011, 16:37
Nice (weary) & Nicer (10K)
restless
05-21-2011, 16:52
some dogs are perfect:
fabian
tucker dog
raven
lp
spit
hillwalkers dog
sarah
these dogs are responsible for their owners sanity. or were. rip .
dont know the last 4.. Fabian..neurotic but a good odg, tucker..best dog award, but retired...raven...dead....
But in all seriousness, dogs are a problem on the trail. People refuse to follow rules.
the only rules that exist in reality are ones that can be inforced, which is highly unlikely on the trail.
LIhikers
05-21-2011, 17:55
Let's not limit the rudeness to dog owners, or even the broader group, hikers. I'd say that our society, in general, isn't as polite and considerate as it used to be. I don't know if that's bad or good, but it's just the way it is.
SouthMark
05-21-2011, 18:18
nice (weary) & nicer (10k)
+1...........
The Cleaner
05-21-2011, 18:31
Dogs aren't the only problem.I've seen shelters being used as a place to leave unwanted clothing and trash. Some hikers use the food storage lines to hang and forget bags of trash. Other hikers throw trash under the bunks or put it in a privy.The problem seems to get worse every year.
harryfred
05-21-2011, 18:34
[QUOTE=kanga;1162771]stop drinking tequila for breakfast.[/QUOTE
Tequila makes a good water treatment. I prefer a little whiskey. Beer or wine have been used as water treatment for centuries 1 to 5 ratio is considered adequate.
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
Skidsteer
05-21-2011, 18:59
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
Socrates.......
Socrates.......
by way of Plato
Skidsteer
05-21-2011, 19:16
by way of Plato
And they both probably yelled "Get off my lawn!" on a regular basis.
There's a thread called "teach me how to stealth camp" right below this. I think it's safe to say hikers are less considerate.
stretche
05-21-2011, 21:08
I think there is such a disparity along the trail when it comes to dogs, on the same day i saw a man with two massive dogs that did not behave well at all while a couple had a single dog and it behaved perfectly. Hell it tried to play fetch with me after a long day of hiking.
I guess my point is that it depends on a person and the dog, I feel like the feelings of a dog owner are very alike, nice people own nice dogs simple nuff
mweinstone
05-21-2011, 21:27
duh. yes they are. if i, a seasoned apalachian trail long distance hiker and volenteer were to even lift a finger to inact the old ways, i would have been beaten to a bloody pulp years ago. it is absolutly forbidden for anyone like myself to interfear with any trail behavior of others. whereas in the past of my youth, it was improper not to. the pole shift is complete. what was normal is banned. behavior that directly puts my life and others in imediate and severe danger by other hikers can only be delt with by leaving the area . all else and any interfearence is concidered politicaly incorrect.
ill give you a personal example. rambo. beloved hiker and personal friend of mine and most of my friends,....came to our trail years ago with a blowdart tube and darts. and a pump daisy bb rifle. me and lwolf gained his respect at the place in damascus after his long 500 mile trail of darts and reports from other hikers culminated in us all being great friends. he never caused any injury or fear. in fact, all of the reports were faverable. "rambos cool!" " hes a crackshot!". folks enjoyed his antics and they were all innocent. but it was unacceptable for the image of our trail. and dangerous. and irresponsible. and rambo would be the first one to stop a kid if he brought these to the trail. he learned a better way. cause me and wolf sat him down in love and respect and taught him what was right and wrong on the trail for hikers. but to say a word these days is not done. gone are the days of being our brothers keepers. very sad. its the death of the trail you know. mala said something very apropro at traildays to me. he said, babalon has come to the trail.
real hikers have a certian seriousness mixed with respect and humor. but no malis.
duh. yes they are. if i, a seasoned apalachian trail long distance hiker and volenteer were to even lift a finger to inact the old ways, i would have been beaten to a bloody pulp years ago. it is absolutly forbidden for anyone like myself to interfear with any trail behavior of others. whereas in the past of my youth, it was improper not to. the pole shift is complete. what was normal is banned. behavior that directly puts my life and others in imediate and severe danger by other hikers can only be delt with by leaving the area . all else and any interfearence is concidered politicaly incorrect.
ill give you a personal example. rambo. beloved hiker and personal friend of mine and most of my friends,....came to our trail years ago with a blowdart tube and darts. and a pump daisy bb rifle. me and lwolf gained his respect at the place in damascus after his long 500 mile trail of darts and reports from other hikers culminated in us all being great friends. he never caused any injury or fear. in fact, all of the reports were faverable. "rambos cool!" " hes a crackshot!". folks enjoyed his antics and they were all innocent. but it was unacceptable for the image of our trail. and dangerous. and irresponsible. and rambo would be the first one to stop a kid if he brought these to the trail. he learned a better way. cause me and wolf sat him down in love and respect and taught him what was right and wrong on the trail for hikers. but to say a word these days is not done. gone are the days of being our brothers keepers. very sad. its the death of the trail you know. mala said something very apropro at traildays to me. he said, babalon has come to the trail.
real hikers have a certian seriousness mixed with respect and humor. but no malis.
Do you suppose White Blaze, and its emphasis on HYOH, could be a bit responsible?
mweinstone
05-21-2011, 21:41
no the oposite. our site helps. hyoh means dont fail by bad tecnique. it speaks not to communal self policeing. to suggest to a hiker his or her washing of pots with soap at a springs edge is putting you at risk is not done for reasons of personal fear and the want to be uninvolved and just take the exsperience from the trail with no concern to give back to ,or preserve it.
sir limpsalot
05-21-2011, 22:31
kids; or the ner'do'wells that raised em....be considerate of others! shouldn't have to be spelled out, damn shame. However, in the spirit of the village raising the child- I'll be happy to offer guidance should your dumb ass be careless enough to act out in front of me!
Lemni Skate
05-21-2011, 22:46
What I hate about rude hikers is how we act like we need to educate them. What?
It's freaking common sense not to leave trash all over the place, etc.
I don't get mad because somebody digs a cat hole 4 inches deep instead of 6. I get upset when they take a dump 20 feet from the shelter and throw down toilet paper and then just push 10 leaves on top of it. It's common sense not to have your dog running around a shelter sticking it's face in an 8 year-old boy's dinner. It's common sense not to be screaming at the top of your lungs to your buddy in the privy at midnight when people are sound asleep in the shelter and tents around there. It's common sense not to "wash your dishes" in the spring by the trail.
There's plenty of discourtesy out there, but's it's not because people are ignorant. It's because they are discourteous.
I've found most people are more interested in themselves than making sure everyone is enjoying the hike. Dog owners who need the joy of seeing their dogs run free even if it scares a little kid or little old lady are just one of many types of selfish people out there.
When I'm out there it's for selfish reasons, but I go out of my way to not to ruin the experience for others. Somehow, I think people who are rude on the trail are the same people who are rude off the trail.
Jim Adams
05-21-2011, 23:17
What I hate about rude hikers is how we act like we need to educate them. What?
It's freaking common sense not to leave trash all over the place, etc.
I don't get mad because somebody digs a cat hole 4 inches deep instead of 6. I get upset when they take a dump 20 feet from the shelter and throw down toilet paper and then just push 10 leaves on top of it. It's common sense not to have your dog running around a shelter sticking it's face in an 8 year-old boy's dinner. It's common sense not to be screaming at the top of your lungs to your buddy in the privy at midnight when people are sound asleep in the shelter and tents around there. It's common sense not to "wash your dishes" in the spring by the trail.
There's plenty of discourtesy out there, but's it's not because people are ignorant. It's because they are discourteous.
I've found most people are more interested in themselves than making sure everyone is enjoying the hike. Dog owners who need the joy of seeing their dogs run free even if it scares a little kid or little old lady are just one of many types of selfish people out there.
When I'm out there it's for selfish reasons, but I go out of my way to not to ruin the experience for others. Somehow, I think people who are rude on the trail are the same people who are rude off the trail.
GOOD POST...VERY TRUE!
geek
mweinstone
05-22-2011, 07:33
truth is, its still pritty clean and fun out there.
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
Socrates.......
by way of Plato
Yeah, and look how great Greek civilization turned out around the time Plato was writing. Seems Greece was about to be overthrown by a certain Macedonian goat farmer within a couple of generations.
But it's just history. It's not like there's anything to be learned from that mess.
stranger
05-23-2011, 00:20
Here we go.. :)
1. Don't blame the dogs, blame the owners....
2. My dog would never do that.
3. Keep your dog on a leash.
4. My dog obeys my every command and doesn't need a leash thank you very much.
5. ?
He is blaming the owners...hence the name of the thread 'are hikers less considerate'.
no the oposite. our site helps. hyoh means dont fail by bad tecnique. it speaks not to communal self policeing. to suggest to a hiker his or her washing of pots with soap at a springs edge is putting you at risk is not done for reasons of personal fear and the want to be uninvolved and just take the exsperience from the trail with no concern to give back to ,or preserve it.
I disagree completely. HYOH is something people cry when they don't want to be told they're impolite. It's an excuse to do whatever you wish under the pretext of "respect". Nothing respectful about unleashed dogs, litter, or drugs/alchohol on the trail.
A trail angel went down to a pavilion on Silverwood lake to do some trail magic on the PCT. She found tons of hiker garbage just left at the pavilion by the lake. She knew it was from hikers because it was bags of used freezer bag cooking, other wrappers and sheets from Halfmile's maps. Another person said they had just come back from a section and pretty much followed a string of cigarette butts on the trail. I just came back from a section where I picked up trash, sometimes freshly dropped and laying right in front of other hikers. Who dropped this, you? There have also been complaints that one or two hikers will get a room at the resort in Warner Springs and then sneak all their friends in to use to hot pool and sleep. You can add people to your room but they don't want to pay. There's not a lot of respect for the trail or the towns along the way. I think too many hikers see this as an extreme endurance exercise and they are these awesome athletes and we should all bow down to their excellence and they don't have to follow any rules because they are so special. I think a lot of them think they don't have to keep the trail nice because they think it's just "the desert so who cares." I suggested to someone who maintains a water cache that they should put a note inside the cache reminding people to leave no trace and if they continue to find garbage left by hikers on the trail that they'd cancel the planned hiker feed on Walker Pass.
It's a proven fact that a dog's mouth is cleaner than a human mouth..BUT..I've never seen a human licking his nads or a** I would never let my dog (if I still had one) drink from the water sources
There again..the dog cannot be blamed...only the owners who allow it to happen are to blame..
Are you trying to say that since it is a proven fact that a dog's mouth is cleaner than a human mouth that humans should consider licking their nads or a**? It seems that it would take an awfully limber human to accomplish either task. The real problem is dogs or humans that use water sources to bathe (even washing hands or paws), wash clothes (fur) or dishes.
It is not the dogs fault or the owners fault.
The message for proper trail dog etiquette is to confusing to follow and the idea is an another impossible dream to achieve.
It all goes back to the confusion caused by footprints and LNT.