View Full Version : Would you buy a license to hike?
Years ago I used to hunt ducks and for that I purchased the federal duck stamp. It's a tax that is used to improve wetlands so it helps ducks and all other creatures in the wetland. I no longer hunt ducks but I still buy the duck stamp. If they could start such a fund that would be used to improve all the hiking trails I would be willing to purchase a hiking stamp. This would only truly work if it was required for all. You want to hike the Appalachian Trail? You would be required to purchase a AT stamp. Would you support such a tax?
vamelungeon
05-23-2011, 10:40
No, I wouldn't. Too many other places to hike for free.
Years ago I used to hunt ducks and for that I purchased the federal duck stamp. It's a tax that is used to improve wetlands so it helps ducks and all other creatures in the wetland. I no longer hunt ducks but I still buy the duck stamp. If they could start such a fund that would be used to improve all the hiking trails I would be willing to purchase a hiking stamp. This would only truly work if it was required for all. You want to hike the Appalachian Trail? You would be required to purchase a AT stamp. Would you support such a tax?
Shhhhhh keep that idea to yourself :eek:
Rocket Jones
05-23-2011, 11:02
Part of my taxes already go towards the parks system. As you stated, you already contribute extra by buying duck stamps, there's nothing to stop someone from donating extra directly to the park of their choice.
I suspect that volunteering time is at least as welcomed as money.
Lone Wolf
05-23-2011, 11:11
Years ago I used to hunt ducks and for that I purchased the federal duck stamp. It's a tax that is used to improve wetlands so it helps ducks and all other creatures in the wetland. I no longer hunt ducks but I still buy the duck stamp. If they could start such a fund that would be used to improve all the hiking trails I would be willing to purchase a hiking stamp. This would only truly work if it was required for all. You want to hike the Appalachian Trail? You would be required to purchase a AT stamp. Would you support such a tax?
no............
Bags4266
05-23-2011, 11:21
Yes I would support it. But who enforces it. You would have to pay people to enforce it which would hurt the bottom line. And all the gram wennies would be up in arms cause the would have to carry the extra weight of a stamp.
chiefiepoo
05-23-2011, 11:54
how to enforce and levy sanctions? IIRC there once was, or is, an excise tax on certain sporting goods to support conservation efforts. Would it be worth collecting 1% on say hiking boots, tents, back packs larger than school size, dehydrated food as examples to fund trail and facility maintenance? Very few NP visitors voluntarily donate in a meaningful way I suspect. For all of the visitors to GSMNP where there is no entry fee by law and custom, the park donation boxes fail to garner much $$.
Probably not, not with the way the entrance fees have been administered.
If we could guarantee that taxes collected for back-country use were used for back-country preservation/improvement that would be one thing. But I would assume that, as with the entrance fees, the money would go to front country improvements. More campgrounds, roads, parking lots, kiosks, etc.
In the meantime, back country facilities are built and maintained by volunteers.
hikerboy57
05-23-2011, 12:20
no, I already pay enough dues, taxes, fees.
hikingshoes
05-23-2011, 12:33
That is NUTS!!!!
hikingshoes
05-23-2011, 12:34
That is NUTS!!!!
I would buy a tag if my state had one, but thats it.HS
ChinMusic
05-23-2011, 12:36
Breaking rules like that is how NASCAR started.
Bootlegging does have that hiking ring to it..........
ekeverette
05-23-2011, 12:36
i would.... i hate taxes though, and if it would really go into the trail itself, yes i would......... but i still really hate taxes.
If you buy an NC Friends of the AT plate, you can donate whether you want to or not. I got the plate and a card that asked if I wanted to join the ATC or not. I checked the no option. Nevertheless, I had a huge charge for my plate the next time I got my car inspected. I called and asked if they could sort it out, and they said it was all taken care of. Happened again the next time I got it inspected. So I didn't get my free one year membership, newsletter, sticker, patch, etc.... But at least it went to the trail (I hope).
In theory, the way it would be spun/sold to the public, it might sound like an OK idea. In practice, NO WAY! Are you crazy? Just what we need more government, legislation, laws, and taxes. I'm with the Great Orator, Ronald Reagan, things are not always better/or best with greater govt involvement! Bigger govt is not always the answer.
You also make a big assumption that you know where the money will ACTUALLY go. That's a laugh!
I would much rather see all hikers required to do some trailwork...but then we wouldn't have an all volunteer army of maintainers.
LoneRidgeRunner
05-23-2011, 13:55
no, I already pay enough dues, taxes, fees.
ditto.....
LoneRidgeRunner
05-23-2011, 13:56
That is NUTS!!!!
yep.......
WingedMonkey
05-23-2011, 14:08
There is a difference between a license and a stamp. I buy a hunting or fishing license to show I'm am qualified to participate in those activities. I buy license stamps to support or pay for areas or types of game I seek. Here in Florida some Wildlife Management Area's require stamps or fees even to hike. Some game requires specific stamps to catch or hunt.
Maybe there should be a hiking license, then it could be revoked for being stupid or for destroying property. But each state would want their conceived share. Would you would have to get a stamp for each trail?
Then again I've always thought people should get a license to have children. They're already required in my county to have dogs.
:p
hikerboy57
05-23-2011, 14:25
moldy, there are numerous trail maintaining organizations that you can donate your time and money to, that would thwart the need for any additional "license fees". Would you donate to them, or do you prefer the idea of a license?Are you an ATC member?Do you practice and teach LNT?(please, lets not get religious again)?By being part of the solution, this is an issue that can be avoided.
Graywolf
05-23-2011, 14:28
I had to double check to see if this was in the humor forum...
I would never pay or purchase something so absurd....Geeze, who would come up with something like this??
Dont answer that. Please. I know the answer..;)
Graywolf
hikerhobs
05-23-2011, 14:38
NO....... Theirs to many other trails to hike, The AT's not the only trail around.
mweinstone
05-23-2011, 14:51
i would pay to breath, worship the devil to breath, and kill to breath. pay to hike, sure.
mweinstone
05-23-2011, 14:52
ill be dead in a few moments. id pay to do anything else.
First of all, the idea is not absurd or nuts... OP was just asking if a standard practice applied elsewhere would work for the AT, and I think its a valid point. I also think its impractical as many have pointed out. There are lots of laws on the books that have good merit for what they're intended to do, but its bogging down our legal/enforcement system and wasting resources instead of adding to the pot. On the other hand, I'd love to have one of those ridgerunner enforcer jobs!
Pedaling Fool
05-23-2011, 17:14
Years ago I used to hunt ducks and for that I purchased the federal duck stamp. It's a tax that is used to improve wetlands so it helps ducks and all other creatures in the wetland. I no longer hunt ducks but I still buy the duck stamp. If they could start such a fund that would be used to improve all the hiking trails I would be willing to purchase a hiking stamp. This would only truly work if it was required for all. You want to hike the Appalachian Trail? You would be required to purchase a AT stamp. Would you support such a tax?
It's almost like that for the Florida Trail.
WRT to the AT, the short answer is, No. The not so long answer is, I wouldn't really mind paying for a stamp if it was needed, but it's not; it's like taxes, the more we give them the more fraud and waste there is.
No I would not pay to hike the AT.
Northern Lights
05-23-2011, 17:41
I would pay for a permit.
restless
05-23-2011, 17:44
I find it interesting...everyone wants to dance,nobody wants to pay the piper.
Isn't there another forum on here somewhere complaining about the condition of the trail and shelters? :datz
harryfred
05-23-2011, 18:11
YES! OK message is too F****** short. I would not support a you can only hike if you pay but give me a patch and stamp and I would. OOH OOH and a sticker for the back of my Tracker:banana
mweinstone
05-23-2011, 18:23
the people who wont pay are mad about it and the people who will pay are calm about it.so the people who will pay, and are calm about it,..make the folks getting paid happy. or maby you belive their are no folks , just funds. no , folks,.... their are folks getting rich from your farts. studys on farts, reports of fat farts, all sorts of weird crap is going on. best to not fund and craplike funding.
Pringles
05-23-2011, 18:35
I don't want to pay for a stamp, but I do pay to be a member of the ATC. There, the money does (seem) to go to the trail, and I can vote on the officers who make the decisions about where the money goes. I have to trust that they make reasonable, if not good, decisions. The money isn't taken away by some senator from a state that's far, far away to go to a project that I don't care about. I don't get a stamp, but over the years they've sent me some stickers, address labels and a lapel pin. :-)
Pringles
PS--And they support this really cool trail I know about!
mister krabs
05-23-2011, 18:39
I would pay for a permit, but would expect more services for it.
Places to get rid of trash, bear cables, trail maintenance, privys. I'd be willing to pay more for that.
hikerboy57
05-23-2011, 18:45
I would pay for a permit, but would expect more services for it.
Places to get rid of trash, bear cables, trail maintenance, privys. I'd be willing to pay more for that.
Maybe you could get a few friends together, pool your money, and just get it done at the sections you feel need more amenities. Places to get rid iof trash are all over the place, just not in the woods- carry it out.
Or donate some money to your local hiking club responsible for trail maintenance. Or volunteer for trail maintenance.
hikerboy57
05-23-2011, 18:47
I pay enough already, but if you were able to furnish hot showers, I might pay a little more(and towels, masseuses.)
This is why I would vote Libertarian.........
mister krabs
05-23-2011, 20:14
Maybe you could get a few friends together, pool your money, and just get it done at the sections you feel need more amenities. Places to get rid iof trash are all over the place, just not in the woods- carry it out.
Or donate some money to your local hiking club responsible for trail maintenance. Or volunteer for trail maintenance.
...everybody's got one.
mister krabs
05-23-2011, 20:26
This is why I would vote Libertarian.........
Would, will or did?
Don't blame me, I voted for Badnarik and then Barr. :D
Walkintom
05-23-2011, 23:22
I'd rather pay a tax to see that the tax dollars I am already paying are better spent.
mweinstone
05-23-2011, 23:26
if my government told me to pay a tax to hike and that i had to be chipped in three places including the penis, i wood.lol.
mweinstone
05-23-2011, 23:27
chip away!
World-Wide
05-24-2011, 01:15
Next to being shot at and missed, nothing is really quite as satisfying as not having to pay for yet another suggested tax! No, I wouldn't pay for a license/tax to hike...W-W
Breaking rules like that is how NASCAR started.
Bootlegging does have that hiking ring to it..........
It would make hiking more fun.
Waltzing Matilda comes to mind also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INdjRCNcZj0
The hiking tax should go directly to industry of course, bacause every mile hiked is an indication that we just aren't working hard enough to screw our environment.
If such a tax was passed, then the next thread here will be on how to do "stealth hiking".
mweinstone
05-24-2011, 07:02
hiking tax evaders who dont report revenus from trail magic will be subject to stiff fines, peneltys and interest as well as court costs.
your thruhiking, someone subsidises your hike with a shuttle, a gift of chocolates and a free stay at their hostel. total value of your magic as estimated on schedual c would be 250 dollars of witch 12% could be taxed as gifts.
Jim Adams
05-24-2011, 08:14
I had to double check to see if this was in the humor forum...
I would never pay or purchase something so absurd....Geeze, who would come up with something like this??
Dont answer that. Please. I know the answer..;)
Graywolf
Hunters pay for a license.
Fishermen pay for a license.
Offroad riders pay for a license.
Yet hikers shouldn't...there's that elitist attitude that I missed on WB! Yep, the outdoors is just for the total purpose of hikers...why should hikers pay! And everybody on here says that thru hikers feel entitled....pot calling the kettle black?:eek:
HELL YES I WOULD BUY A STAMP!
gek
hikerboy57
05-24-2011, 08:27
Hunters pay for a license.
Fishermen pay for a license.
Offroad riders pay for a license.
Yet hikers shouldn't...there's that elitist attitude that I missed on WB! Yep, the outdoors is just for the total purpose of hikers...why should hikers pay! And everybody on here says that thru hikers feel entitled....pot calling the kettle black?:eek:
HELL YES I WOULD BUY A STAMP!
gek
do hunters fisherman offroaders support local trail maintainers or do trail maintenance? the point is that many of us already pay fees to clubs and organizations on top of state park fees, campsite fees(NH), as well as volunteer to do trail maintenance.Many don't, but if they did it would thwart the need for additional revenue thru license fees.Your license fees are used for different reasons, so its not the same. there are plenty of people with too many entitlement issues , I agree, but its certainly not limited to thru hikers.
WILLIAM HAYES
05-24-2011, 15:15
nope would not
Jim Adams
05-24-2011, 15:27
do hunters fisherman offroaders support local trail maintainers or do trail maintenance? the point is that many of us already pay fees to clubs and organizations on top of state park fees, campsite fees(NH), as well as volunteer to do trail maintenance.Many don't, but if they did it would thwart the need for additional revenue thru license fees.Your license fees are used for different reasons, so its not the same. there are plenty of people with too many entitlement issues , I agree, but its certainly not limited to thru hikers.
Yes, hunting and fishing license fees go back into the system. One of the reasons that you get to see so much wildlife while hiking is because of hunting organizations. Same with the fish you catch along the AT and other trails. Many clubs, hunting, fishing and offroad do maintenance projects on trails, and they all pay fees for their outdoor activities.
I don't think that most thru hikers feel entitled...but alot of people themselves on WB feel they are entitled.
Purchasing a stamp for a one time fee each year would not bother me at all...I was also a duck hunter that bought that stamp every year to be allowed to do my hobby. No big deal.
geek
Shutterbug
05-24-2011, 16:14
Years ago I used to hunt ducks and for that I purchased the federal duck stamp. It's a tax that is used to improve wetlands so it helps ducks and all other creatures in the wetland. I no longer hunt ducks but I still buy the duck stamp. If they could start such a fund that would be used to improve all the hiking trails I would be willing to purchase a hiking stamp. This would only truly work if it was required for all. You want to hike the Appalachian Trail? You would be required to purchase a AT stamp. Would you support such a tax?
Almost every time I hike in a National Park, I buy a "permit." That is essentially the same thing as a license. Anyone who stays below the rim overnight in the Grand Canyon has to buy a permit. The fees are used to maintain the park.
I find it interesting...everyone wants to dance,nobody wants to pay the piper.
Isn't there another forum on here somewhere complaining about the condition of the trail and shelters? :datz
As stated before, actual taxpayers already pay enough for all the federal programs. I would say,that anyone who is part of the 47% of the workforce that pays no federal income tax, then by all means purchase a hiking stamp.
Majortrauma
05-24-2011, 16:58
Good God, more taxes???? Serenity now!!!
i am a duck hunter and buy the duck stamp and if you looked into where all that money actually went you would stop buying duck stamps. much rather donate money to are local hunting club to use in their own conservation efforts.
LIhikers
05-30-2011, 13:49
For me it would depend on the details.
And I'm sure our politicians and beaurocrats wouldn't call it a tax, instead, it would be a user's fee. You know, kind of like your driver's license renewal fee. Of course all of the payers would see it as a tax.
If I had to buy one I would. I wouldn't be one of those people out there trying to stealth camp with no license.
Like most people I'm always wary about having to pay fees, taxes, etc. and wondering if the money is actually put to good use or if it's wasted on unnecessary projects or simply put into peoples pockets.
Is there a need for licenses though? From what I've read the AT seems to get by fine with donations and volunteer work and hikers spending money on gear and in towns which helps out those various local economies. Would the trail really benefit from additional licenses or fees? I don't think so.
Carl in FL
05-30-2011, 14:30
I am a very strong believer in limited control and regulation by government,
substituting private enterprise and organization instead. If I could voluntarily donate
my time or money, or both, I very likely would. If I had to do it by force of law, or do
without, it would be a difficult choice.
Put me down under Libertarian too.
i would.... i hate taxes though, and if it would really go into the trail itself, yes i would......... but i still really hate taxes.
There would be no trails, no parks, no police, no public schools, no government without taxes. Hate all you want, but taxes are here to stay. The OP, however, wasn't proposing a new tax, but a fee in which those that use a service like hiking would pay for the privilege, thus reducing the need for taxes.
As stated before, actual taxpayers already pay enough for all the federal programs. .....
Not quite. About half the dollars we spend these days are borrowed, a great deal from China, India and other third world countries. These countries expect to be paid back. That means that quite soon we are going to have to not only pay the total costs of government out of current fees and taxes, but also all the money we have borrowed over the past decade, plus interest.
Cookerhiker
05-30-2011, 15:09
The AT and hiking trails didn't just happen by themselves. They don't remain as trails maintenance-free by themselves either. There is a cost involved.
Now as some have pointed out, there are existing fees in the form of permits, entrance fees, day-use charges, parking lot charges etc. National Parks have had these for years and National Forests are seeing more of them. So those who hike trails in these places are paying something.
Re. the AT, I wouldn't support a fee because the AT's unique public/private partnership with the NPS, ATC, and local clubs works well for the most part. But I also believe AT users "should" take membership in the ATC and their local club(s). At a minimum, they shoulde also contribute to trail maintanance. Those who don't are freeloaders.
No, this can't be a legal requirement; it's more a matter of persuasion. Let's get rid of the something-for-nothing syndrome.
what if you weren't actually hiking. what if you were just taking a short walk in the woods. would you still have to pay the tax. How would you even know that you were on a trail that required a fee?
Couldn't we just tax ultra lighters or hammock users?
Panzer
No I would not. Too easy to hop a fence and start walking. You couldn't bar me from the outdoors.
Rocket Jones
05-30-2011, 15:48
There would be no trails, no parks, no police, no public schools, no government without taxes. Hate all you want, but taxes are here to stay. The OP, however, wasn't proposing a new tax, but a fee in which those that use a service like hiking would pay for the privilege, thus reducing the need for taxes.
I agree with the first part of your statement (although you say "no government" like it was a bad thing), but very seldom has our government seen a need to reduce taxes. Adding a "fee" wouldn't reduce taxes one penny.
hikerboy57
05-30-2011, 15:56
I am a very strong believer in limited control and regulation by government,
substituting private enterprise and organization instead. If I could voluntarily donate
my time or money, or both, I very likely would. If I had to do it by force of law, or do
without, it would be a difficult choice.
Put me down under Libertarian too.
You CAN both donate to the ATC and your local hiking club, and you CAN donate your time for trail maintenance as well. In addition, we can ALL do minor trail maintenance while we hike(clear downed branches, trees, brush, replace dislodged stones, etc.). and if most users did, there would be little or no need for additional "license"fees.
and outside of isolationism, Id vote for Ron Paul in a heartbeat.
....you say "no government" like it was a bad thing......
Only because we all rely on government. Stop signs separating through roads from side roads, for instance. Then there are police, coast guard, the army and navy -- whose fallen in battle some of us memorialized today. Some things don't fit totally into efficient free enterprise.
Even those few of us wealthy enough to live in gated communities with their own law enforcement guards, still like to know there are police officers we can complain to, when our cars and persons are vandalized at trails and trail parking lots.
restless
05-30-2011, 18:13
I am a very strong believer in limited control and regulation by government,
substituting private enterprise and organization instead. If I could voluntarily donate
my time or money, or both, I very likely would. If I had to do it by force of law, or do
without, it would be a difficult choice.
Put me down under Libertarian too.
Good news! Various trail organizations are always looking for volunteers! Florida Trail Association probably has a chapter in your area!
restless
05-30-2011, 18:14
You CAN both donate to the ATC and your local hiking club, and you CAN donate your time for trail maintenance as well. In addition, we can ALL do minor trail maintenance while we hike(clear downed branches, trees, brush, replace dislodged stones, etc.). and if most users did, there would be little or no need for additional "license"fees.
and outside of isolationism, Id vote for Ron Paul in a heartbeat.
If we only had more people like hikerboy57----uhhh...well....I'd be out of a job!!!:eek:
sheepdog
05-30-2011, 18:50
Years ago I used to hunt ducks and for that I purchased the federal duck stamp. It's a tax that is used to improve wetlands so it helps ducks and all other creatures in the wetland. I no longer hunt ducks but I still buy the duck stamp. If they could start such a fund that would be used to improve all the hiking trails I would be willing to purchase a hiking stamp. This would only truly work if it was required for all. You want to hike the Appalachian Trail? You would be required to purchase a AT stamp. Would you support such a tax?
I'd buy a hiking stamp but your money is probably better spent giving to a trail organization. They have a few less bureaucrats.
Carl in FL
05-30-2011, 18:57
If I could voluntarily donate my time or money, or both, I very likely would.
OK, I worded that poorly. I know I can and I have before, and I plan to do so again,
within my means and abilities. I meant "could" to support a hypothetical argument.
I've helped build trails here in our county.
mweinstone
05-30-2011, 18:59
if we never made governments, we would have been better off.
if you ended our government we would be worse off.
no worse government could be created than what we have today.
what we have today came from a government that was once un toppable.
our future depends on our chooices.
our chooice to maintain this government spells the end of our future.
any change to our fragil government would kill it.
without drastic changes, our government is a dead duck.
people are allways much stronger than government.
people under bad governments loose their identity and their fight.
mweinstone
05-30-2011, 19:00
a catch 22 situation is only ended by a non catch 22 situation, of witch none has ever been found.
I'd buy a hiking stamp but your money is probably better spent giving to a trail organization. They have a few less bureaucrats.
AMC has purchased 66,000 acres in Maine and is busy building trails and overnight facilities on that land, part of which straddles a few miles of the AT, a government trail.
The organization that maintains the government trail through Maine is the Maine Appalachian Trail Club. But our power is limited. Except for a few miles surrounded by Nature Conservancy land, the trail in Maine and it's surroundings mostly consist of a very narrow government-owned corridor, surrounded by a few acres of AMC and Nature Conservancy land, and millions of acres of private land.
That private land once was dedicated to growing fiber for Maine paper mills. Now the private owners seem to be dedicated mostly to finding wealthy people to build giant private estates, or giant private housing developments, next to the trail.
I think we need to recognize that government is less and less dedicated to trails, and preserving land, and more and more dedicated to turning government land over to the whims of free enterprise.
Since only government has ever managed to protect the land needed for 2,000+ mile trails, I think that we who like such trails need to appreciate the value of government in such matters.
www.matc.org certainly needs money. We are about to try to raise several million dollars for a permanent facility to house our volunteer trail crews.
www.matlt.org is seeking donations to pay for our share of an effort to buffer the narrow trail corridor.
Let me suggest that these things are not either/or issues. But everybody needs to help issues.
I'm gimpy
06-03-2011, 16:58
They tax the gear I buy. They tax the gas to get me to the trail, the food I eat there. The only thing free is the air and the views. I don't think I could support a hiking stamp.
the cost of collecting the tax and the enforcement might exceed the amount collected.
its not going to be a big money maker.
Panzer